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Racing Discussion => Racing Discussion => Topic started by: Jwhite316 on March 01, 2013, 01:50:51 PM

Title: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: Jwhite316 on March 01, 2013, 01:50:51 PM
From looking at the CCS sponsor page http://ccsracing.us/sponsors.html#sponsors it looks like Dunlop, Michelin and Bridgestone have all committed to some sort of contingency support to CCS races in 2013, and Pirelli awaiting for confirmation.  Who do you guys think overall is the best choice for tires based solely on contingency support, and track side support?
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: Cbr_600rr_freak on March 01, 2013, 02:46:31 PM
DUNLOP!!! ;)
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: MELK-MAN on March 01, 2013, 04:28:53 PM
You should ride the BEST TIRE FOR THE MONEY. Unless you are on the box nearly every race, and the grids are BIG, you won't get much or any contingency. Michelin nor Pirelli have contingency this year, but are both GREAT tires. The only tire you better than those are the UK ntec tires in my personal opinion (and others even though many won't post it on a public forum) .. and you have to spend $550+ for those.

SO.. (my opinion only) run the Michelin Cup tires, get awesome support form MasonRacin (Tommy mason i think is your guy in the MW), and you INSTANTLY have $150 in your pocket.
According to Mike "Thermosman" Fitzgerald, renown suspension tuner to the best in the business, the CUP tires is the best tire, especially the front. He says this himself, i'm not making that up.

Again, you can NOT go wrong with any of the brands you list, Michelin, Pirelli, Dunlop, Bstones, they are all darn good, and better than most of us can use as club racers.. but don't base your opinion SOLELY on contingency. You just are not going to get as much as you think. They only pay a few places, and there needs to be 8-10 on the grid that actually MAKE a lap. Side note.. the b-stones are cheaper, and have conting, but i really do not think you will go as fast on them as the other 3 brands. But hey, it's a good tire for less money.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: DanO966 on March 01, 2013, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on March 01, 2013, 04:28:53 PM
You should ride the BEST TIRE FOR THE MONEY. Unless you are on the box nearly every race, and the grids are BIG, you won't get much or any contingency. Michelin nor Pirelli have contingency this year, but are both GREAT tires. The only tire you better than those are the UK ntec tires in my personal opinion (and others even though many won't post it on a public forum) .. and you have to spend $550+ for those.

SO.. (my opinion only) run the Michelin Cup tires, get awesome support form MasonRacin (Tommy mason i think is your guy in the MW), and you INSTANTLY have $150 in your pocket.
According to Mike "Thermosman" Fitzgerald, renown suspension tuner to the best in the business, the CUP tires is the best tire, especially the front. He says this himself, i'm not making that up.

Again, you can NOT go wrong with any of the brands you list, Michelin, Pirelli, Dunlop, Bstones, they are all darn good, and better than most of us can use as club racers.. but don't base your opinion SOLELY on contingency. You just are not going to get as much as you think. They only pay a few places, and there needs to be 8-10 on the grid that actually MAKE a lap. Side note.. the b-stones are cheaper, and have conting, but i really do not think you will go as fast on them as the other 3 brands. But hey, it's a good tire for less money.


Well said Greg...You can't even get the UK Ntec's I used when I was doing 1:08s and 1:09s on my R6 at Blackhawk on anymore..so it's a moot point.


I run the Michelin CUPs and the are very good!  I won several  expert MW races last year on the Michelins!  I'm running Michelin again this year and looking forward to going faster! 


I learned a lesson quite a few years ago.  When Mike (Thermosman) speaks, I listen!  :-)


Good luck.


-DO
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: MELK-MAN on March 01, 2013, 05:27:23 PM
For sure Dan, you put it to em this year in the MW for sure. ASRA pro wins too right ?
I had heard about the UK ntec no longer being available (or at least the GOOD ones whatever model that was, the guys running them would be faster than the spec tire FOR SURE) but wasn't 100% about it.
COOL ! :) LOL
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: DanO966 on March 01, 2013, 05:47:37 PM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on March 01, 2013, 05:27:23 PM
For sure Dan, you put it to em this year in the MW for sure. ASRA pro wins too right ?
I had heard about the UK ntec no longer being available (or at least the GOOD ones whatever model that was, the guys running them would be faster than the spec tire FOR SURE) but wasn't 100% about it.
COOL ! :) LOL


Yes I won the ASRA Pro Sportbike race last year on Michelin Cups.




Greg, are you still healing or are you going to be at Roebling?  I'll be down there with a bunch of MidWest guys.  I'm just testing and getting ready for Daytona tho. 



Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: MELK-MAN on March 01, 2013, 06:18:11 PM
Quote from: DanO966 on March 01, 2013, 05:47:37 PM

Yes I won the ASRA Pro Sportbike race last year on Michelin Cups.




Greg, are you still healing or are you going to be at Roebling?  I'll be down there with a bunch of MidWest guys.  I'm just testing and getting ready for Daytona tho. 


I just sent pre-entries in for the Roebling races Dan, see you there. 95% chance i'm racing, will be a 5 weeks/3 days post surgery on the arm that Saturday. Another couple weeks healing would be ideal, but I think it will be ok.

Tire choice is tough at the March RRR round, the mornings tend to be chilly, and the A rear tires would cold tear till it warms up around noon. B rears should be fine.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: roadracer162 on March 01, 2013, 07:44:27 PM
I should have known that about the A rear last year. Went to th B and all was good. Love those cups!
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: MELK-MAN on March 01, 2013, 09:16:07 PM
Quote from: majicMARKer on March 01, 2013, 07:44:27 PM
I should have known that about the A rear last year. Went to th B and all was good. Love those cups!

were using an A in the morning too Mark? the track was wicked cold ..you would assume the softer compound is correct for colder temps, but it all just "depends".. LOL
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: roadracer162 on March 01, 2013, 09:42:42 PM
I did have the A rear Greg and I destroyed it. Replaced it with the B and I have stuck with that tire in all conditions. My bikes don't have enough power to warrant using the A for grip but I guess side grip would be better?
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: MELK-MAN on March 01, 2013, 09:49:06 PM
Quote from: majicMARKer on March 01, 2013, 09:42:42 PM
I did have the A rear Greg and I destroyed it. Replaced it with the B and I have stuck with that tire in all conditions. My bikes don't have enough power to warrant using the A for grip but I guess side grip would be better?

on the rear A, side grip is better, initial 1st lap grip is better too. But, conditions need to be right for a soft tire to not cold tear. Funny enough at PBIR and Homestead, all i use is the A rear. Jennings? no way. Even when cold I use a B rear.
Every brand of tire was tearing last March at RRR in the morning.. but most of us were on soft compounds thinking it was more ideal due to the cold.ONce the track temp came up a little (from like 40F..) the A worked fine.
I use the VB Front almost exclusively, but there are times i think the VA would be a bit better.. i just have decided the VB is for me all the time.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: roadracer162 on March 01, 2013, 10:13:03 PM
I am of the same thinking with the VB. It seems to work in all circumstances and I know I am not pushing it as hard as you are. I should have tried running with you at Homestead last year. There may be another time where I get to chase you around in a race. It was fun riding around with Villa last weekend in my Thunderbike race. I sometimes think that trying the VA would work into my tire plans with the VA wearing close to the B rear wear rate. they seem to stick pretty good even with little rubber left, but I can see where losing heat in the tire may be a problem with less rubber.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: kvanengen on March 05, 2013, 10:00:24 AM
Each one of those brands offers a great tire. The question is what works best for YOU? Everyone has a different riding style and wants or expects different things from their tires. Personally, I like Pirelli tires. Why? It's because they offer a softer sidewall and lightweight bikes (that I ride) like that. But again, that just works for me. I realize this was not very helpful and I apologies for that. My main point is to try a few tires and decide what works best for you on your bike, with your suspension, at your pace.

Best of luck in your search
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: supercarl on March 07, 2013, 04:18:32 PM
Gotta give props to my guys at Turn One Racing!  :cheers:  They sell Bridgestones and provided me with awesome cruicial support all season last year and not just by providing tires with the best contingency payout. They also were quick to help me with bike rebuild after crashes, part loaning, suspension help, and they also have a variety of parts availble for purchase at the track (sprokets, sliders, etc...) Couldnt have made it through the year with out them!  8)

Tommy with Michelin is also a great and very helpful dude!  :cheers:

Just my $0.02
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: Gino230 on May 06, 2013, 09:40:46 PM
where is the contingency payout amounts? I have not been able to find it on the CCS or Bridgestone website.

I'm going to start trying tires next round. Michelin, Bridgestone, maybe even give Pirelli another shot.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: Pirelli Tire Guy on May 14, 2013, 02:19:39 PM
After seeing what Brand X can sell and how the tire quality control is very low, and how you cannot get the tires that are made in the UK, but only in Buffalo, I have made a switch to Pirelli. I have seen first hand the quality of their tires, knowing that they are lighter and do not take away the horsepower from the rear, how the new 180/60 for the 5.5in rims provide a greater tire contact patch, as do the 200's for the 6in rims. They disperse the heat which is the ultimate tire killer,and provide excellent wear with many compounds to choose from. We also have tires for the CBR/Ninja 250's which are gaining in popularity, the TZ/RS/MD 125/250's, the SV's to the 1000's. They have great trackside knowledge, as former racers, and all around motorcycle nutz, and provide top notch service even away from the track, with quick shipping and awesome pricing. PIRELLI  :boink: As far as contingency our tires are more cost effective too. If yo have any tires needs drop me a line.
James Bock
Podium Motorsports
PodiumMS@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: sonicnofadz on May 23, 2013, 01:35:43 PM
I'm digging the new Bridgestone R10's this year.  The new soft compound front is super sticky, and is a much stiffer carcass than the medium compound.  Price for the set is MUCH cheaper than NTEC's, so thats always a plus ;)
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: supercarl on May 23, 2013, 02:03:33 PM
I was going to try that new front soft compound! So you notice a big difference in grip with it? what about wear?
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: Boober on May 23, 2013, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Pirelli Tire Guy on May 14, 2013, 02:19:39 PM
After seeing what Brand X can sell and how the tire quality control is very low, and how you cannot get the tires that are made in the UK, but only in Buffalo, I have made a switch to Pirelli. I have seen first hand the quality of their tires, knowing that they are lighter and do not take away the horsepower from the rear, how the new 180/60 for the 5.5in rims provide a greater tire contact patch, as do the 200's for the 6in rims. They disperse the heat which is the ultimate tire killer,and provide excellent wear with many compounds to choose from. We also have tires for the CBR/Ninja 250's which are gaining in popularity, the TZ/RS/MD 125/250's, the SV's to the 1000's. They have great trackside knowledge, as former racers, and all around motorcycle nutz, and provide top notch service even away from the track, with quick shipping and awesome pricing. PIRELLI  :boink: As far as contingency our tires are more cost effective too. If yo have any tires needs drop me a line.
James Bock
Podium Motorsports
PodiumMS@yahoo.com
UK Dunlops still available from Race Tire Service
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: design-engine on May 28, 2013, 06:54:28 PM
If you ask me I would say Pirelli is the best choice.  It offers the best feel for the front out of many tires because of the soft carcass.  Pirelli owns have of the paddock in the Midwest from my glance.    If your a front contender maybe your best choice is to go with one that pays.  Dunlop will require you to fine tune your suspension and that fine tuning is over most people's head and budget.  ie. gas shocks etc.  The dunlop is a hard steel belted and heavy tire.   I understand most folks use bridgstone tires on the west coast cause they pay and they are the closest thing to Pirelli tires.  I have a set of Bridgstones and Im gona try em.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: Motostu on June 11, 2013, 07:53:30 AM
What about the tire sizes? Dunlop does a 190 for everything. I have had a lot of success with cheap dunlops takeoffs. But I am buying a set of dot power cups for homestead. Should I stick with a 190 for consistant feel on my gsxr600 or switch to the proper 180/55-17? Also which compound for homestead? Thank you in advance Melka.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: MELK-MAN on June 11, 2013, 10:57:15 AM
Quote from: Motostu on June 11, 2013, 07:53:30 AM
What about the tire sizes? Dunlop does a 190 for everything. I have had a lot of success with cheap dunlops takeoffs. But I am buying a set of dot power cups for homestead. Should I stick with a 190 for consistant feel on my gsxr600 or switch to the proper 180/55-17? Also which compound for homestead? Thank you in advance Melka.

i would run the 190/55 michelin CUP.. but if you are gonna go with the older series power One, consider the 180/55. The newer 190/55 cup is three pounds lighter than the power one 190. SO, the cup 190, "feels" like the 180 powerone in some respects. It's all i use any more.. no more 180s anywhere for me. Just remember the 190/55 vs 180/55 will require you add 1 tooth to the rear gearing to keep things the same (190 is larger obviously). If you are coming from the dunlop 190 gearing should be about the same (but the dunlop 190's are different sized.. the gpa is smaller than the uk ntec im nearly positive).

If you are coming from the Dunlop 190 to a Michelin Cup 190.. prepare to feel the lighter tire. There is a considerable weight savings with the michelin vs the dunlop. It's literally gonna feel like you put a marchesini wheel on the back ..
I run the "A" rear (soft). The "B" will likely last a bit longer, some are even using the "C" . It's up to you and talking with the tire guy about your comfort level of trading grip for longevity. I also run the VB front. The slicks are good, but i don't see enough benefit to mess with the different tires. So stick with the dot cups. ;)

if you have any questions, don't hesitate to find my garage and ask. Not sure which end of the garages i will be at, but my bikes are hard to miss. They are yellow, with a big #1 on the front.   :boink:
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: roadracer162 on June 11, 2013, 04:29:34 PM
Nice last sentence Greg. If I may I would lie to add to what you have stated.

The A tire will give you grip from the first lap where the C may take two laps to come in. Once warmed the C is pretty good solely based upon Josh's times and use. I personally have not used the C but I have used the A and B.

Some things to do in preparation for the transition is to measure the tire you are currently on to help set geomettry for the new choice of rubber. Yes even with similar geometry the change in tire will feel different.

Mark
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: Motostu on June 11, 2013, 07:51:10 PM
Thanks Mark and Melka. Def all good advice. I'm going to try a set of power cups. I think ill go with the 190/55 B. I plan on doing light practice Saturday and racing 4 classes on Sunday. Gtu, mwss, hwss, and hwsb. Should I expect a brand new set of B rated tires to last for that? Will the A's last for that?
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: MELK-MAN on June 11, 2013, 08:30:25 PM
Quote from: Motostu on June 11, 2013, 07:51:10 PM
Thanks Mark and Melka. Def all good advice. I'm going to try a set of power cups. I think ill go with the 190/55 B. I plan on doing light practice Saturday and racing 4 classes on Sunday. Gtu, mwss, hwss, and hwsb. Should I expect a brand new set of B rated tires to last for that? Will the A's last for that?

so much of what you are wondering depends on your pace/laptimes, and how your suspension setup looks after the tire (but mostly about your pace/lap times). If you plan to only do a few sessions on Saturday (and not run every lap of ever sesson, it's possible ? You can run these tires till the rain sipes are gone, but the lap time does go off like any race rubber after the "new" is gone from  a new race tire. I run a tire for 2-3 races, but i wanna run up front with the faster experts every race. If i didn't mind going a second a lap slower in the 3rd-4th race as much, i would just run the one rear a bunch of races. Most AM racers (and even many experts) should have zero problem going near the best lap times they can do, for 4 full races on 1 rear/1 front.
When i was an AM racer, and did quite well as an AM, i ran one set of new tires Sunday morning for our 1 morning practice session and all my races. I also did 4 races, same ones you are doin. Then i used those tires for my practice sessions on the saturday of the next race weekend, then new for Sunday again..

As mark pointed out, the C (although i too have yet to run it) could be a better choice for that many laps (practice on saturday AND racing on sunday), but the B would be better than the A i would think. If you planned on a take-off for practice, then a new tire for the races .. then use THAT tire for your next saturday practice day, that would be a better plan in my opinion.

but my opinion is to run a new set on Saturday to get the feel for these tires and not worry about how many laps you run, then put another new rear tire on for Sunday so you can go a bit faster.. and then run those tires in practice for your NEXT race weekend. This first time on them you just don't have that "last race takeoff" to run for the saturday practice.

i MAY have another take off A 190/55 rear but i know it's on a rim, so likely would not be available for you till mid morning on saturday.

also, all things equal, i would raise our forks through the clamps 5mm as the front michelin is taller than the dunlop. The rear dunlops are very very close to the same size as the michelin 190/55.
I don't know where your getting your tires, but our new michelin FL region vendor will be there at Homestead with everything you need.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: Motostu on June 11, 2013, 10:22:31 PM
That would be awesome if I could get a takeoff that I know where it came from to try. I just got off the phone with Frank Kinsey. I bought a set of power cup dots 120/vb and 190/55 b. Thanks for all the advice guys!
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: roadracer162 on June 12, 2013, 06:39:14 AM
Stuart, consider these facts. Your lap time is similar to my lap time on the 748. After the four races(24 laps) the rear will look like hell even though there is still life in the tire. I have raced the Michelin Cup for six races(36 laps) and not had issues. It begins to fall off slightly as Greg has stated. I have run the A to 100 laps with more life in the front VB just not necessarily race laps. Josh has used the front longer than I have and has had good results. I typically like racing up to 24 laps on a tire and use the remaining 75 laps for practice laps.

I actually track my laps and the lap times I achieve for each tire. I look for the fastest lap and at what point during the tire wear I get that fast lap.

I would suggest putting a fresh rear for Sunday races whether the A or the B. try the B on Saturday and see if you want more traction. The B is what I have settled on. Greg will use more of the tire than I ever do. He is at a much quicker pace on any given bike. I would say the wear on Greg's rear tire is about twice the abuse I would dish out. It's just these tires remain with good traction when there is virtually no rubber left. In contrast the Dunlop will look good for a long time.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: MELK-MAN on June 12, 2013, 07:20:55 PM
... what he said :)
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: apriliaman on June 12, 2013, 10:19:46 PM
For me I don't have any money for new tires every race weekend,I can barly make to the track as it is. I race 13 weekends this year and no practice days.I use either Bridgestone or Pirelli.I run 5 weekends worth 2 practice 2 races each weekend on the SV .3 weekends worth on Ducati 1 practice 3races each weekend. At summit Point on my SV at the last race I just set my best lap time ever there by 1.3 sec and I had 4 weekends worth of racing on my front tire.What if i had new tires all the time how would i do?I know if I was racing 600 or 1000 things would be very different.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: roadracer162 on June 12, 2013, 10:42:33 PM
Mark, the Florida region schedule works a little differently as you know from attending JGP. A typical weekend will see over 150 miles as recorded on the Ducati 800 odometer. I will rotate tires using two sets of wheels for each bike. A typical weekend for me I can achieve 80 total miles. Of course I now have two bikes that I race and practice on.

In contrast the Roebling weekend I will do 45 laps including practice and three races for two days. So in essence your four weekends of racing is approximately two weekends in the Florida region.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: MELK-MAN on June 13, 2013, 12:32:39 AM
yup. Naturally a 600 or 1000 is gonna go through tires faster.. Tom Eubanks and Kevin Farrell did the ENTIRE 4 hour endurance race on ONE set of Michelin slicks on Kevin's Ducati. Four hours.. 1 set of tires, at Jennings. :)

i use more rear tires than perhaps i need to .. but well.. I can.. so i do !  As Mark Tenn stated, you can run these tires till the rain sipes are gone. They don't keep getting slower and slower, it seems they drop off a bit from "new" times, then level off till you finally take it off the rim. I have put well over 40 laps on a rear between 3 races and then practice sessions.
Title: Re: Best Tire Option CCS MW
Post by: roadracer162 on June 13, 2013, 08:19:07 AM
Quote from: majicMARKer on June 12, 2013, 10:42:33 PM
Mark, the Florida region schedule works a little differently as you know from attending JGP. A typical weekend will see over 150 miles as recorded on the Ducati 800 odometer. I will rotate tires using two sets of wheels for each bike. A typical weekend for me I can achieve 80 total laps(edit). Of course I now have two bikes that I race and practice on.

In contrast the Roebling weekend I will do 45 laps including practice and three races for two days. So in essence your four weekends of racing is approximately two weekends in the Florida region.