My proposal for next year is to increase the distance of races. One of the largest expenses for most racers in time and $ is travel expenses. Its a fixed cost regardless of if you run 1 race or 12 races.
I was really disappointed at how many races this year were shortened to 5 lap races, seems like such a waste "did I really come all of this way to race for 12 miles?". I never understand when people are for shortened races, especially when the cost is the same. After just watching a marathon it occurred to me that our races are only about half that length on average!
I propose to lengthen the distance of the races by a few laps, even if it means dropping classes or adding to race fees. I already spend an entire weekend driving and multiple hundreds of dollars in expenses, what's a few extra bucks per race entry to get more out of it. 5 lap races are hard to justify...
I think this question has been asked for a long, long time.
The results have been that CCS's marketing strategy has been to follow their data that supports that continually adding classes results in individuals entering classes.
However, over a decade ago, the generally known data was that each racer entered about four races a weekend (average). I think a few years ago, it was down to around 2.7 races. My assumption that it was based upon a single event weekend rather than a twin sprint weekend.
I don't think CCS is looking to listen to much on changes.
Add fees to the entry, people bitch. Drop classes, people bitch. Dont have a "competative class" for their bike, people bitch. CCS does something to please one group, the other bitches and vice versa.
if you want long then do team challenge.Gt races would be good to make 30min if that is what you like
Quote from: apriliaman on November 20, 2012, 07:44:29 AM
if you want long then do team challenge.Gt races would be good to make 30min if that is what you like
TC used to be longer. At its longest, they were three hours. Are they even 90 minutes now? GT races used to be longer than 30 minutes. Then they were reduced to 30 minutes from the green flag...I believe that they are now 30 minutes from when the five minute board goes up.
GT races are 25 min long with the clock starting when the 5 board goes up.
Most Team Challenge races are scheduled for about 150-155 miles and have a time limit of around 2 hrs 15 min (depending on the track and the rest of the schedule) to allow for any Red Flag stoppages. At that point it may become a timed race if you can't get in all the scheduled laps.
You're not going to have longer races without dropping something.
How about dropping the MW and UL GP classes? They don't pay anymore, is anyone entering those on oddball bikes that otherwise wouldn't get to run? That's at least the upside of LWGP.
Is there anyone in other regions racing LWSS? That grid is a ghost town up here.
Team Challenge races have gotten short time-wise because the fast guys are faster and some do it solo (since there's no "solo challenge" anymore). At least some of them should be longer. 3 hours, bring "team" back into it or at least make it more challenging to do it solo. I think only one TC race this year was longer than an hour and 45, most were around 90 minutes. The one race that ran short on laps and went to the full two hours had 20+ minutes of down time for rain and red flags.
So three races divided up by the remainder of the races leads to how many laps per race gained. What is affordable per race? How many laps would be sufficient for a sprint race?
I like the Team challenge. I like the GT 25 minute race.
Dropping a few races perhaps wouldn't allow for more laps per race, but on really packed weekends, especially twin sprints, you'd allow a little more breathing room so the other races don't have to be shortened.
I should have also included the ladies class as one to pull. It's a nice idea and I enjoyed it, but it's not exactly a packed class either.
The races should be 10 Laps. My son races both CCS and USGPRU and likes the longer 9 lap USGPRU races much more.
With longer races it affords you more time to get through traffic and get a good result if you fail to pre reg for the entire season in Jan. There are many other benefits to longer races that make better racing in general like tire wear, rider conditioning, etc.
$$$ to Miles raced is is weak at 6-7 laps and down right pitifull at 5 laps.
I agree to dropping some of the odd ball classes that fill the day. I'm pretty sure any class the is dropped that rider can find a spot somewhere else in the schedule to fit in, theres to dam many classes with half full grids.
More laps would be cool, but there are times where I prefer the five lap race. With more laps on each race it would require more time to run the races. In speculation if we increase the laps by double, we would probably then require cutting the amount of classes in half. With half the amount of races, we will then need to pay twice the amount for each race. What did we gain? I am sure the driving force behind the organization is the cost of doing business. I know many of you will say that the awards aren't that much. Yeah, no it isn't much. But, what about the cost of renting the track? What about the cost of EMS? Would you like two Rescue trucks there? How many corner workers, trek marshals, tech guys, registration personnel? What do you pay them? At what amount would you do what they do?
With event participation down by a huge percentage I would guess corners must be cut. Where would they be cut? I remember finishing 38th in a 50 something grid/race. What is the amount in Middleweight Supersport grid?
I would like to see one race the same length as the typical AMA. Combine GTU & GTO & make it 45 min. The TC races this year sucked. I ran the Topeka Race for Team RnR cycle solo - it lasted about 1:17 hr. What kind of bullshit is this. Long way from 2 hrs.
Even when George Linhart, Dave Maskell (HOuston) & I ran the CMRA Big Bike Endurance series in 2010, the longest race was only 6 hrs with several 3, 4 hr races. They were shortened by the damn mini bikes running long races. Can you imagine running a mini bike on the banking @ Texas world going all of 45 mph? What a freaking waste of time.. Where are the 8-12 hr races...
Combining the GT races may work. But what about the guys that run both class on their 600?
Very few run GTO and GTU. I and maybe one or two others in the MW do this. I would sacrifice to get one AMA length race a weekend.
Not so in the Florida region. I don't know how much leeway each region has in changing the length of races.
Quote from: Burt Munro on November 21, 2012, 09:00:01 AM
GT races are 25 min long with the clock starting when the 5 board goes up.
Wow...so that's even shortened up.
Yes, there is TC a few rounds, but the point is, everyone spends a lot in travel cost. I want to spend less time in the pits and more time riding... I'm already there!. 5 lap races just isn't getting me as motivated to drive, especially far.
Think about how short a 5 lap race really is... Getting your suit on, Warmers off, warm up lap, grid, cool down lap.... All takes as much time as the race itself!
If you are in favor of shorter races, is it because you don't want to ride that long, or you don't want to sacrifice other classes, fees, etc, to make that happen?
If you talk to track-day guys, their jaw drops when you tell them how short races are. That's racings big competition that we need to attract. Track days are full, we just need them to grid up.
I guess it really depends on what region you are in. For the Florida region we seem to get more ride time for the money as compared to a track day. Our GT races are 9 laps not timed and our sprint races are 6 laps. All this works into the practice all day Saturday and Sunday race day. With all the races on one day makes for a hectic schedule at times. Some doing 9-10 races in one day. But, with that it would only be 60 laps. Price? Our Saturday practice gives the new guy or the guy trying to develop a machine time to get some things sorted. At $100 for the day it seems to be a bargain with 6-7 sessions of about 15 minutes. Sunday there is a morning warm up and then a full day of racing. There has only been one weekend that it has ever gone over to a Monday to finish races and that was a monsoon day. So my total of $265 registration and practice just got me up to 11 sessions of riding. The track days in these parts are mostly priced in the $180-$200 range. So for me the racing is a pretty good deal. Plus there is a little more incentive with the insurance that CCS Florida provides.
I liked the 50 mile GT races. Unfortunately, that was ten years (or more) ago.