so,I could finish first in my region all year and someone could just show up and win the race of champions for my class and division and then would be the champ. for that class and division?without racing all year?is this correct?
YEP, Unfortunaltly I think that is the case. That is not really fair for the people who run all year. Especially since Race of Champions in at Daytona. Example:
Rider A - Runs every race on the schedule and finishes in the top 5 every weekend. He smokes a lot of riders and indeed is a much better rider than most of guys in his class. Then he goes to the ROC at Daytona and finishes second. HE LOSES< NO NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.
Rider B - Runs 2 races all year and never finishes in the top 20. Spends a shit load of money on a motor for Daytona. He wins daytona and the National Championship. THAT IS A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT
Anyone here who has run daytona knows the deal. You really can't make up much time(if any) in the infield. If someone has a faster bike than you, then your screwed.
I think the national championship should be based on points and some sort of finishing postion at ROC
any idea when a schedule will be available I'm trying to take off work and I'm not sure when to ask for.
I think if they're going to decide a National Championship on ONE race on a high horsepower track in Florida, they should run the ROC in March so that all kinds of other guys in the rest of the country aren't fooled into working/spending all year long on a campaign! Think of the money you could save!
Quoteany idea when a schedule will be available I'm trying to take off work and I'm not sure when to ask for.
Oct17-20
with Team Hammer practice on 16th
Quoteso,I could finish first in my region all year and someone could just show up and win the race of champions for my class and division and then would be the champ. for that class and division?without racing all year?is this correct?
Well, yeah. But, it ain't such a big deal. I've run CCS Bike Week and CCS ROC numerous times and, unless things have changed in the last year or two, your scenario ain't gonna happen for one simple reason. The person who just shows up for the ROC is going to be gridded so far back, they are not going to get to the front in 8 laps (or 10 or whatever it is these days), no matter how much motor they bring with them. And if they do, then they deserve the Championship. But that's irrelevant. Unless it's Scott Russell, it ain't gonna happen. And he has the grace to pull off before the Checkers.
The ROC is gridded by points. Regional Champs up front. No-points people in the back, most likely in a 2nd or 3rd wave.
The thing you should be more worried about is the guy you beat every race all year who ends up 4th or 5th in the region, so he ends up gridded fairly close to the front, and HE brings a big, big motor to Daytona. Then, what do you say? The guy raced a lot of races, and finished well all season (but never as well as you), but he wins the champeenchip. I think *that* is the biggest "unfairness" (if you will) to running races all year on tracks that aren't really "horsepower" tracks and then running the National Championship at Daytona. But, ultimately, that's racing. There's always somebody out there that can buy a faster bike than you can. If this happens, be glad he only beat you at Daytona.
- Stu
Hey guy's you still have to ride. You can have the fastest motor there but if you can't ride good. well.. The fast guys do 53's on 600's how do you explain that. You can win with a slower bike. I started 68th second wave in UNLSS a couple of years ago on a 750 and finished 3rd. I passed the leaders but they motored me to the line. They were on 1000,s. With one more lap I would have won. Or if I had run races during the year to get points I could have started closer to the front. The race is not about who spent the most money. Ran the most races. But who is the fastest.
What year was that? ::) ::) ::)
That was 98 or 99. Or it may have been the CCS race in march. I will see if I can find the my wood it may have a date on it. The point is it's not all about motor. It may make you faster or it may scare you and make you slower. But it doesn't mean you will be able to beat somebody thats riding better with less motor. I could go to Daytona with a GSXR1000 but I don't think I could beat Yaets or Bostrom on a 600.
Hell i got a 1000 i can't beat anyone LMAO ;D
I think that R.O.C. at Daytona should not remain as it is. Why not just pay double points for March, and double points for R.O.C. Seems to me that this would be fair to all.
Does any other racing organization have this system crowning a champion?
Say all the money, time and effort put into a season has you first in the points, you go to Daytona only to have a faster rider win your race and be crowned king of the hill.
Yes, faster riders deserve recognition of being fastest, they can win the race and not steal what what someone has worked all year for, a Championship, unless they too have paid their seasonal dues.
While I will probably never even be close to this scenario, I feel for those who have experianced this" phenomina"
CCS is made up of many riders from many regions. SCCA for sports cars does it the same way. The fast guy at Mid-Ohio is the champ. Granted Mid-Ohio would not benefit a big hp bike but it still comes down to one race for all the glory.
It's not like a national series that has the same riders competing against each other all year for a points total championship. That is what the regional series is all about.
So how do you take racers from all over the country, who don't run against each other all year and make it a points total championship? Rather difficult to do. If someone can figure a better way, let CCS know it.
I do agree the championship should not be at Daytona. Like SCCA, Mid-Ohio, or some other track that really enforces the riders ability would be a better venue, much better racing.
For many years a number of CCS midwest regional champs wouldn't show up at Daytona for that reason, too much hp needed. Fortunately they changed their minds and over the last few years have gone to ROC and kicked butt.
The major reason CCS lets anyone come down and enter the ROC is $$$$. The more riders they let race = more money to pay the bills. Daytona ain't cheap!
I always liked an invitation by points only system better. You have to run x amount of races and garner a certain amount of points or regional standing to be able to run for a championship.
Not really fair to do it by season points IMO. some regions do not have the turnout or level of competition in some of the classes so that rider will have an advantage and could win a national cahmpionship based on weak regional races. Waht you talk about is done with the WERA vintage program. And I witnessed excatly the scenario I peak happen where a rider with NO competition for the year won the championship over riders who had fields of 10+. Not saying he was not a good rider or even the best for the year but he won by default of his local competition.
The national championship at Daytona rewards you with grid position based on your regional riding, but you have to go up against the world as every racer in the world could be there. You prove yourself against the world riders not a select group. This done mean you need to be prepared when you go to Daytona and one slip could mean a title and you must be the best in the world and best prepared to win there (IMO)
Daytona is not a good judge on who is the best racer but rather who can spend the most and be very prepared. I have been going to Daytona for about 20 years. Someyears it has been very good sometimes it has been very bad.Skill does play an important part at Daytona as those that have been there a few times do have an advantage as far as drafting and the run to start finish. But HP is the King at Daytona , we have started last on the last wave in 4 lap races and won there , yes rider ability helped , but passing 20 bikes at a crack on the banking helped a lot. CCS would be better off having the ROC somewhere else , but the problem is you need a very large facility that can have 80 bikes on the track at a time and large enough pit area. Where could you find such a place with good weather most of the time. I sure there is no perfect answer but debate can bring up some ideas!
QuoteDaytona is not a good judge on who is the best racer but rather who can spend the most and be very prepared. I have been going to Daytona for about 20 years. Some years it has been very good sometimes it has been very bad. Skill does play an important part at Daytona as those that have been there a few times do have an advantage as far as drafting and the run to start finish. But HP is the King at Daytona , we have started last on the last wave in 4 lap races and won there , yes rider ability helped , but passing 20 bikes at a crack on the banking helped a lot. CCS would be better off having the ROC somewhere else , but the problem is you need a very large facility that can have 80 bikes on the track at a time and large enough pit area. Where could you find such a place with good weather most of the time. I sure there is no perfect answer but debate can bring up some ideas!
It would be very nice to have the championship winner decided from total class points received all season. I worked very hard and spent a lot of money racing one class as my focus this season. At the end... someone with much less class points still won one race and all of the points I earned through out the season, all of the work, was for a second place. Even though I had over a hundred points more. Leaves you feeling a bit short changed. I say let all racers that work that hard for class points have them count for the champioship. It would be easier to score too, No?
I don't think Nicky Hayden would like to see the whole season ballance on one race.
Here's the problem with a national championship based on points--not every region has the same number of races, nor is the competition equal in all regions. For example, this year the Southwest region had 9 races on their schedule and the Mid Atlantic region had 12. Let's say, for argument's sake that the same guy won every race every weekend. The Southwest champion would have 585 points, and the Mid Atlantic guy would have 780. I'm sure you Pacific and Southwest guys would agree with me on that point. Another inequality is the number of bikes in the field. The average grid in the Mid Atlantic for Amateur Middleweight Supersport, for example, is a maxed out grid of 45-50. In the Southwest, the average field is 15-20. It wouldn't be fair to award the championship to a person who only had to beat 20 guys all year over a guy who had to fight off 45 all season solely because of his points total. I'm sure you Mid Atlantic and Midwest guys would agree with this point. So, from a spectator's point of view (that's really what I am), this levels the playing field. You guys work your butts off to win regional championships--Daytona is just to determine who, out of the entire country, is the champion. Your points are an advantage to you--you receive a better grid position for the more points you have. However, the national championship is up for grabs on an even level for all. True, Daytona is all about preparation, but isn't all racing about preparation? The same argument can be used for Road America, Road Atlanta, etc, etc. I do also see your point about how Daytona isn't in the middle of the country so it's a bit of a hike for those west coast guys and gals. However, what track has the prestige that comes with the name "Daytona"? We've held our Race of Champions at the beach for going on 20 years, and based on the rider surveys I have gotten back from you racers, 99% have been happy with when and where the ROC is held.
A series that is based on season long points is either the regional champonships or the National Road Race Series. The National Series sounds like what you want as it is a National championship based on season long points, as opposed to a CCS national championship which is based on one race. unfortunately there is not another way to win a National championship if you do not a run a Nationwide series (like the AMA championship that Nicky Hayden won or the FUSA championship that Michael Barnes won or the GNC that Matt Wait won)
hey eddie i cant help the pionts you had i only race south east region i wish i could have raced in the midarea too. i aslo worked very hard each race weekend luckily winning all my races. 585 points not encluding the last race i also won. there were no more points to get. plus at almost 49 years old in feb not bad since i just statred and never owned a sportsbike before.like tiff said this is the only way to bring everyone together at a single race. and you were on the pole pos. just my 2 cents. were are really gonna be shot for next year cause there are some 55sec guys in ex for 40.
If your going to award a National Championship at a single race, then it shouldn't be held at the same track every year, PERIOD! Will this change? No.
QuoteIf your going to award a National Championship at a single race, then it shouldn't be held at the same track every year, PERIOD! Will this change? No.
Having it at Daytona every year has one advantage , the track is not local to anyone as the only times you can race there are the spring and fall. No real advantage for any local guys!
Quotehey eddie i cant help the pionts you had i only race south east region i wish i could have raced in the midarea too. i aslo worked very hard each race weekend luckily winning all my races. 585 points not encluding the last race i also won. there were no more points to get. plus at almost 49 years old in feb not bad since i just statred and never owned a sportsbike before.like tiff said this is the only way to bring everyone together at a single race. and you were on the pole pos. just my 2 cents. were are really gonna be shot for next year cause there are some 55sec guys in ex for 40.
Yeah, Reading Tiff's post gave me a better view on the subject.
Too bad the number of races aren't the same from region to region. It would be cool to run the season knowing how hard you need to push it going into the last round. If the points were more quickly posted on the CCS web site, a rider could keep track of competition in other regions as he/she raced all season. Next year??? Oh my gosh gotta run faster!
As far as me being on the pole... yep you just beat me Bob! ;)
eddie, you are a true champ anyway first or second does not matter other than bragging rights. i must say i just got lucky i knew you were on my tail. and you seemed to be one hella of a nice guy to. thats what this sport needs are more guys like you. see ya next year and have a happy christmas. you just got held up in the EXPERT traffic i am glad those guys were putting around . see ya
Quoteeddie, you are a true champ anyway first or second does not matter other than bragging rights. i must say i just got lucky i knew you were on my tail. and you seemed to be one hella of a nice guy to. thats what this sport needs are more guys like you. see ya next year and have a happy christmas. you just got held up in the EXPERT traffic i am glad those guys were putting around . see ya
You forgot the better trophy! ;)