Found this out after tech inspection at VIR : According to the rule book, any helmet with the snell M2005 sticker (regardless of date of manufacture) is only valid till end of 2011. Dont understand why this rule is so different from other race org's (ie WERA) which state helmets must be no older than 5 yrs post manufacture date and carry a '00-'10 Snell label.
Question has been posted to the rule book officials, but thought I'd post it here too for feedback.
It varies with each org. AMA also requires '10 much like CCS. I would be surprised if WERA requires '10 starting next year. SCCA allows one standard back from the current.
I would like see a change to a 5 year max manufacture date. As worded in the 2011 Rule Book, no more snell 2005 helmets. Which means a 2 year old manufacture date "NEW helmet" is DQ'd.
It would be nice to see a rule change on the 2005 snell. I have 3 helmets that are in great shape with the 2005 snell. 1 is brand new.
I agree that the rule should include one Snell date back from the latest regardless of MFG date.
It seems to me that these types of rules are instituted in good faith but are based on "studies" designed to sell helmets. Styrofoam that won't degrade in a landfill for 1,000 years is suddenly so sensitive when money is involved.
now i got to buy 2 new helmets and thats alot of $$ for me at $800 each.I don't get el chepos $200 ones.
That's silly. The rules do state that buy it also mentions that M2011 is good also. There's no such thing as M2011. M2005 just means it was built to M2005 standards, not that it was made in 2005. Someone needs to inform the rule makers. I am not going to buy another $800 helmet (built in 2009 - built to M2005 standards) because of some silly rule.
I like the Shoei RF1000 helmet.............. It fits perfect. It's quiet, gives me confidence that it'll save my noggin. I tried others, HJC too noisy & felt cheap, Arai doesn't fit me. Shoei doesn't make the RF1000 anymore, BUT I have a brand new RF 1000, Snell 2005, Manufactured Dec. 24, 08 in a box at the house.
I don't have a rule book around, but there are certainly opportunities for buying helmets with the EU and/or DOT standards too.
not sure if the window of opportunity for voicing rule changes has closed, though I already emailed the powers that be to consider changing the "M2011" rule before the Oct 21 deadline. It may still be beneficial to send email to info@ccsracing.us (info@ccsracing.us?subject=2012%20Rule%20Suggestion) to affect some change. Hopefully the moderators of the rule change group also look at the postings in this forum. We'll see I guess.
I emailed the office about a month ago to change this rule to 5 years vice snell rating.
Quote from: Super Dave on October 23, 2011, 12:37:52 PM
I don't have a rule book around, but there are certainly opportunities for buying helmets with the EU and/or DOT standards too.
Here ya go Dave. Heres the paragraph right out of the rulebook.
5.1.1 Undamaged full-face helmet with face shield and bearing a stamp of
approval from
one of the following international standards:
Snell M2005 and M2011 (USA)
(Snell M2005 will remain valid thru 2011)
BS. 6658 TYPE. A (GREAT - BRITAIN)
ECE 22 - 04 & ECE 22 - 05 "P" (EUROPE)
JIS 8133:2000 / JIS 8133:2007 (JAPAN)
(JIS 8133:2000 will remain valid thru 2011).
I bought a new Arai Vector a year or two ago, getting it as a spare, and knowing the Arai I was wearing at the time was several years old and funky, so would need to be replaced soon. I just started wearing the 'new' Vector this Summer, and now it no longer qualifies, as the only certification/sticker I found in it was the M2005. :-/
Rule's been changed!! :ahhh:
"If a rider can prove their helmet was manufactured within a 5 year period from the date of the event, the rider shall be permitted to use a helmet that meets the 2011 standards for helmets."
Thank you CCS.
Quote from: jhackett on December 09, 2011, 07:22:10 PM
Rule's been changed!! :ahhh:
"If a rider can prove their helmet was manufactured within a 5 year period from the date of the event, the rider shall be permitted to use a helmet that meets the 2011 standards for helmets."
Thank you CCS.
So, that should just be a matter of checking the date code in the helmet...
I sure hope so Dave! I emailed the office yesterday to get a clarification on this. "Does a Snell 2005 3 year old "NEW" helmet qualify, OK for 2012?" I'll let you know when I get a response.
read the build date on the helmet, if its older than 5 yrs you buy a new helmet :thumb:
Doesnt matter "how long" you've owned the helmet.
Yes, I can understand the 5 year rule..... ::)
"If a rider can prove their helmet was manufactured within a 5 year period from the date of the event, the rider shall be permitted to use a helmet that meets the 2011 standards for helmets."
Will a helmet with Snell 2005 manufactured 3 years ago meet 2011 helmet standards?
I sure want that clarified before I drive a couple hundred miles to the track.
It would be a bitch to not to have an approved helmet and not be able to race! :wah:
yep, your good to go then, just for one more year (assuming your helmet was born in 2008). It has nothing to do with the M2005 label as the previous ruling did. Now its 5yrs from manufacture date.
Thank you CCS
My question to the CCS Office
Does this mean my Large Shoei RF-1000 Helmet manufactured 12-24-2011 Snell 2005 would be legal?
The answer is..........wait for it........
Yes.
Kevin Elliott
Director of Operations ASRA/CCS
And a big THANKYOU Kevin!! :cheers:
that kills off my favorite Shoei X-11. although, i already had decided to move on from the X-11 this year since that helmet was developed based on obsoleted safety standards.
so, personally, i think it's a good safety rule. good lookin out CCS.
Edit after the fact:
ooops! i read the rest of the posts and realize that the Shoei X-11 with a recent manufacture date would still be legal. I still plan to update to a helmet based on newer standards.
Quote from: LoneStar on December 22, 2011, 02:49:13 PM
that kills off my favorite Shoei X-11. although, i already had decided to move on from the X-11 this year since that helmet was developed based on obsoleted safety standards.
so, personally, i think it's a good safety rule. good lookin out CCS.
Edit after the fact:
ooops! i read the rest of the posts and realize that the Shoei X-11 with a recent manufacture date would still be legal. I still plan to update to a helmet based on newer standards.
Have you looked into the change in the standard? I would be willing to be the difference is negligible. Even then, I would also be willing to bet that your X-11 would meet the new standards anyway.
But, Shoei is not going to invest money to certify an old design.
Quote from: Cowboy 6 on December 22, 2011, 05:29:45 PM
Have you looked into the change in the standard? I would be willing to be the difference is negligible. Even then, I would also be willing to bet that your X-11 would meet the new standards anyway.
But, Shoei is not going to invest money to certify an old design.
yeah, i looked into it. i'm not going to make a statement one way or another on if it meets the new standards, but there are newer helmets that not only meet the new standards but have been tested and exceed the performance requirements of the new standards.
but, don't get me wrong, the X-11 is a great helmet and has saved my noodles more than once (not the same crashed helmet, of course). i just know there is better out there now. that's where my head is and is going to be. this is just my personal approach to safety.
In case you're curious, I'm going with Bell. Buy American! :D
I'm arguing against these rules here at MCRA which currently follows CCS lead. Why?
Snell themselves states there is NO testing evidence that well cared for older helmets degrade!
http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/documents ... aining.pdf (http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/documents/dtransportation_safety/conrep/snell_at_ct_instructor_training.pdf)
This same document above can be found on Snell's website as a PowerPoint document in the Documents library. Snell also says both current and prior Snell certification should be allowed in the rule book for competition. And they mention a 5 year USE rule, not date of manufacture.
Sweat, Resin, and UV degradation are myths that certainly don't apply to a well taken care of high end helmet. Again, the 5 year date of manufacture seems to be arbitrary and designed to sell helmets.
I have 2 Snell 2005 helmets, an Arai Quantum II DOM 2004 but in service June 2010 and a Shoei TZ-R DOM 2009 in service 2010. All evidence points to the Arai being the superior and safer helmet yet only the TZ-R can be used for racing or many track days?
Let's keep in mind everything is measured by a cost benefit ratio for us non-pros. Otherwise we'd all be outfitted like your favorite MotoGP star with airbag suits. Yes, we can buy a new helmet. My quandary is do I or others spend $500 on a new top-of-the-line helmet which at best is equal to my existing helmet or spend the same in other safety equipment such as upgrading my gloves, leathers, armor, or perhaps even an extra set of tires for the year. Based on all factual evidence, my overall safety goes up by using the existing Arai and spending that money elsewhere. Yet the rule runs contrary to that best option.
Some more helmet safety tidbits: ECE 22.04 has not been current since 2000 so it should be outright dropped. ECE 22.05 is not nearly as stringent as Snell 2005 or 2010. Snell 2010 in some ways was a compromise to ECE 22.05 as it was impossible to get a helmet to pass ECE 22.05 and Snell 2005.
And now a link to some comparisons between ECE, Snell 2005 - M2010 and DOT:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/snell-2010-standard.htm (http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/snell-2010-standard.htm)
I personally would not run an ECE ONLY certified helmet.
"the 5 year date of manufacture seems to be arbitrary and designed to sell helmets."
Congrats, you broke the code. Unfortunately, too many have swallowed the kool-aide.