Motorcycle Racing Forum

Racing Discussion => Rules and Regs => Topic started by: mtmansl on September 16, 2011, 02:57:27 AM

Title: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on September 16, 2011, 02:57:27 AM
Just wondering why there is not a class that allows 1000cc bikes for F40?   Just curious as I am 40 and have a liter bike and would love to run in F40.

Matt
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on September 16, 2011, 01:58:36 PM
Anybody?
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on September 16, 2011, 02:31:31 PM
Probably because there are so few racers over 40 with a liter bike is my guess.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on September 16, 2011, 05:02:27 PM
I don't really see that...
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: steve p on September 18, 2011, 02:06:08 PM
Great, just what we need.  Now CCS will take this as we need another class in addition to our 65 other classes.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: smoke54 on September 18, 2011, 02:29:39 PM
yeah, we need formula 55! LOL
tim
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on September 18, 2011, 03:40:36 PM
What is the problem??  Why should 1000cc  fours be excluded from F40?  If you don't count GTO, there are only 3 classes that a 1000cc  four is eligible for, an addition to F40 would be one more.  Is that an unreasonable request?

Quote from: steve p on September 18, 2011, 02:06:08 PM
Great, just what we need.  Now CCS will take this as we need another class in addition to our 65 other classes.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mattbnj on September 20, 2011, 12:33:03 PM
I race F40 and don't have a problem w/ litre bikes joining the fun. Let'em in.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on October 04, 2011, 12:45:48 PM
I'm up for a F40 Unlimited class. We could just race at the same time as F40 now but be scored as a unlimited F40 not with the regular F40 that has 750's, 600's and whatever else the allow.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Fast Eddy on October 05, 2011, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: Rick Johnson 29 on October 04, 2011, 12:45:48 PM
I'm up for a F40 Unlimited class. We could just race at the same time as F40 now but be scored as a unlimited F40 not with the regular F40 that has 750's, 600's and whatever else the allow.
I guess all three of you could have a good race.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on October 05, 2011, 10:59:31 PM
You could do this or set up F40 with GTO, GTU and GTL.  Either way, 1000cc I4's should not be left out.
Quote from: Rick Johnson 29 on October 04, 2011, 12:45:48 PM
I'm up for a F40 Unlimited class. We could just race at the same time as F40 now but be scored as a unlimited F40 not with the regular F40 that has 750's, 600's and whatever else the allow.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: steve p on October 06, 2011, 10:51:58 PM
Seriously, do we really need another freakin class in the CCS structure?  Why is there even a F40 class?  If you're over 40 and are worried about tradin paint, then take up knitting or golf.  Total waste of a class and time on the track!
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on October 07, 2011, 01:28:10 PM
 There is a F40 because some guys over 40 for like to compete with guys around thier age. Me personally I don't care what age you are. When the flag drops I'm going to give it my all to win! For those of us that have big bikes generally only have 4 races on a normal weekend that we can do. F40 would give us another race. Sometimes we drive 9 hours plus and doing aonther race would be great. The F40 GTL, GTU, GTO is a great idea. They could all be ran at the same time so this would not take any longer then the F40 that is run now. Obviously you are not close to 40 so you don't give a crap but for those of us that are about to be 40 or that are already over 40 we do care.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on October 07, 2011, 11:30:28 PM
Why do you even care?  You have made your opinion known twice in this thread.  Duly noted, move on, as there are obviously other people that would like to compete in a class that already exists...
Quote from: steve p on October 06, 2011, 10:51:58 PM
Seriously, do we really need another freakin class in the CCS structure?  Why is there even a F40 class?  If you're over 40 and are worried about tradin paint, then take up knitting or golf.  Total waste of a class and time on the track!
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: ahastings on October 08, 2011, 12:32:18 AM
Quote from: steve p on October 06, 2011, 10:51:58 PM
Seriously, do we really need another freakin class in the CCS structure?  Why is there even a F40 class?  If you're over 40 and are worried about tradin paint, then take up knitting or golf.  Total waste of a class and time on the track!
looks like you ride a 1000cc twin, maybe they should get rid of the twins class too then you could just race it against the other liter bikes
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on October 08, 2011, 11:07:42 AM
  So you can post 6 times and I'm only allowed one post! This is not the WERA board! I'll be 40 before the start of next season that's why I care!
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: eh427 on October 08, 2011, 12:10:01 PM
I'm with you Rick. I think they should be allowed also. I sent in this suggestion for the rules committee for next season. I know it has been before. We will see what happens.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on October 08, 2011, 04:40:24 PM
Quote from: eh427 on October 08, 2011, 12:10:01 PM
I sent in this suggestion for the rules committee for next season. I know it has been before. We will see what happens.

Bingo. Thats what people who want to see it allowed need to do. Send a suggestion to the rules committee. Where it goes from there is up to the committee.


Rick what do ya mean "So you can post 6 times and I'm only allowed one post"? The forum software wont let you or are posts you made disappearing? If theres a glitch I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on October 08, 2011, 08:30:46 PM
 No glitch. All my post are showing. At first I thought I was being asked why I care. When I went back and looked in I noticed he quoted someone else and wasn't asking me. Sorry guys.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on October 08, 2011, 08:36:57 PM
Quote from: Rick Johnson 29 on October 08, 2011, 08:30:46 PM
No glitch. All my post are showing. At first I thought I was being asked why I care. When I went back and looked in I noticed he quoted someone else and wasn't asking me. Sorry guys.

No prob. Thought we may of had a forum software glitch
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Backmarker760 on October 09, 2011, 10:03:01 PM
It would put more bikes on the grid while not adding time on the schedule.

It's a win , win.

I would join in on the fun too.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on October 10, 2011, 01:21:44 PM
Rick, my post was not aimed at you, it was aimed at the guy complaining about too many classes.  I too have sent my request to the Rules Committee.  We are on the same side of this issue
Quote from: Rick Johnson 29 on October 08, 2011, 11:07:42 AM
  So you can post 6 times and I'm only allowed one post! This is not the WERA board! I'll be 40 before the start of next season that's why I care!
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: smoke54 on October 10, 2011, 06:00:17 PM
shoot, you 40 y.o. guys are in your prime.  i'm sticking with racing with the kids!
tim
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on October 11, 2011, 04:29:15 PM
 Yeah I sent in some request also. Hope we get the F40 for big bikes and allowed to run slicks in SS.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: steve p on October 16, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
Quote from: ahastings on October 08, 2011, 12:32:18 AM
looks like you ride a 1000cc twin, maybe they should get rid of the twins class too then you could just race it against the other liter bikes

Arnie,  I have and do run against the liter bikes.  I do fairly well too thank you.  No problem if they get rid of the class as they don't give points for it anyways.  In many respects, it's a lot like the F40 class,  good enough to run and take your money, but not worthy of points for the overall.  Its all good.  I just wanted to stay sharp during the year.  Honestly CCS needs to get rid of classes and re-structure.  They have so many bullshit and redundant classes they can't even finish a day on time.  I have heard the CCS in other regions kicks ass, and that's great.  Here in the Midwest it sucks balls.  If you're on a rules committee, by all means get rid of the "fat,"  I'm all for it.

Quote from: Rick Johnson 29 on October 07, 2011, 01:28:10 PM
There is a F40 because some guys over 40 for like to compete with guys around thier age. Me personally I don't care what age you are. When the flag drops I'm going to give it my all to win! For those of us that have big bikes generally only have 4 races on a normal weekend that we can do. F40 would give us another race. Sometimes we drive 9 hours plus and doing aonther race would be great. The F40 GTL, GTU, GTO is a great idea. They could all be ran at the same time so this would not take any longer then the F40 that is run now. Obviously you are not close to 40 so you don't give a crap but for those of us that are about to be 40 or that are already over 40 we do care.


Rick, I am pretty far into my 40's.  Don't need a handicap class to race with the best of them. 
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Sobottka on October 18, 2011, 01:05:26 PM
maybe its different in other reigions but here in the mid west ther's not many liter bikes around, most guys now days are on 600's which is about 90% of whats used in f-40. if f-40 is opened up to 1000cc, it would just be another unlimited class that most guys on 600's wont enter and class size would suffer along with ccs's entry fee collection for f-40. as i understand it, this is why it is not currently open to 1000's. if ccs didn't try to run 40 races a day they could run an open f-40 (for the 2-3 guys who are eligable on 1000's) but as steve said they better be looking at cutting classes.   
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on October 19, 2011, 03:19:25 AM
Not sure what this issue is here???  If you run F40 as GTO, GTU, GTL it works out for everybody.  Why not give the 1k's another class to run in?  Just for the record, I'm in the Midwest Division...
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: steve p on October 19, 2011, 02:27:15 PM
So under your new rules, if you wanted to run both classes, you would sign up and pay for two classes but only race in one physical race?
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on October 20, 2011, 12:35:49 PM
I'm just looking for another race to be able to race in not a handicap race. This just seems to be the only option at this time. I enjoy racing with all ages. It wouldn't make any sense to pay for 2 races when they are raced at the same time. If you are on a 600 just enter the Regular F40 or if they change the format the GTU F40. We are not saying we want to be in the same class with the 600's or 750's. We want a class for big bikes. If someone chooses to enter a smaller bike in the big bike class that's on them.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Sobottka on October 20, 2011, 02:07:35 PM
for you choose to ride a 1000, its on you for getting a bike that can only run limited classes.  ::)  the ccs race day schedule is tight enough
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on October 22, 2011, 01:57:39 PM
We could just have a one wave start with the smaller bikes starting behind the bigger ones. This would not take any more time what so ever. We get another race and CCS gets more entry fees. Win win. Well it's up to the Rules Committee now.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on October 23, 2011, 09:16:07 PM
This wouldn't add another race!  Not sure what you don't undersatnd here???  Run F40 as one race, with GTO, GTU and GTL...  By you're rationale we should be limited to a small number of races because we chose to ride 1000's???
Quote from: Sobottka on October 20, 2011, 02:07:35 PM
for you choose to ride a 1000, its on you for getting a bike that can only run limited classes.  ::)  the ccs race day schedule is tight enough
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Sobottka on October 24, 2011, 08:36:17 AM
im not the one who's confused. first off, f-40 will never run with any gt race, gt races are only combined with other gt races and not sprints. secondly f-40 is already combined with femmoto or lw-40, now according to your post it should be gto, femmmoto, f-40 and unlimited f-40 combined??? ...ok now i dont understand
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: tstruyk on October 24, 2011, 01:18:42 PM
ok now I'm a little fuzzy... if you combined F40 unlimited with the GT, how would that give guys on a big bike an extra race to run?? 
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: 2blueYam on October 24, 2011, 01:32:53 PM
OK, I will jump in here and see if I can clarify what mtmansl is proposing.  I believe the proposal is to run F40 GTL, F40 GTU, and F40 GTO classes.  All 3 of these classes on the track at the same time for a sprint race.

These classifications have nothing to do with the existing GTL, GTO and GTU endurance races other than they may share bike eligibility rules.

btw:  F40 GTU and F40 GTO would be fine, but I don't think having SV650's (F40 GTL) on the track with S1000RRs (F40 GTO) is a very good idea, particularly since it could be experts on S1000RRs and novices on SV650s.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Cowboy 6 on October 24, 2011, 03:06:35 PM
Quote from: 2blueYam on October 24, 2011, 01:32:53 PM
btw:  F40 GTU and F40 GTO would be fine, but I don't think having SV650's (F40 GTL) on the track with S1000RRs (F40 GTO) is a very good idea, particularly since it could be experts on S1000RRs and novices on SV650s.

Or even worse, the other way around.....
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Sobottka on October 24, 2011, 03:36:47 PM
Quote from: 2blueYam on October 24, 2011, 01:32:53 PM
OK, I will jump in here and see if I can clarify what mtmansl is proposing.  I believe the proposal is to run F40 GTL, F40 GTU, and F40 GTO classes.  All 3 of these classes on the track at the same time for a sprint race.

These classifications have nothing to do with the existing GTL, GTO and GTU endurance races other than they may share bike eligibility rules.

btw:  F40 GTU and F40 GTO would be fine, but I don't think having SV650's (F40 GTL) on the track with S1000RRs (F40 GTO) is a very good idea, particularly since it could be experts on S1000RRs and novices on SV650s.
so what happens to the gt races? are they run seperately as gtl, gtu and gto then another set of gt races combined with the f-40's? you (and others here) dont seem to recognize the difference between the two. gto gtu and gtl (timed races, not scored on lap count. race over in 20 min. despite lap count) will NEVER be combined with sprint races (race over at 8 laps), f-40 or any other sprint race will NEVER be combined with a timed (endurance style) gt race. 
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on October 24, 2011, 07:28:48 PM
They ran Rookies Cup like this, this year.  It is not run during the GT race, I was using the format to show how it could be run differently than it is run currently, adding an extra race for the 1000cc's.  This idea was just an example, I really don't care if they just add it in to the current F40 format, why keep 1000cc bikes from competing in F40???
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on October 26, 2011, 05:58:07 PM
It does not have to be called a GTO F40 or have anything to do with any GT races. We just want to have a chance to race with others over 40 on the bigger bikes. Having the bigger bikes scored just by themselves. The bikes that are legal for F40 as it is now would be scored the same as always. Unlimited F40 could be the name of this race not confuse it with any GT races. So for example: Race 7) Unlimited F40 and F40   Then on the grid CCS can post 2nd wave if they prefer to do so. If not it would be just one wave. Not that confusing really.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: TommyG on October 28, 2011, 02:24:47 AM
1000's in F40 has been talked about every year since this forum was started.  Kevin actually does his homework on this topic and so far it has always been 'NAY' for 1000's in the class. You may even be able to search and find his explanation here in the archives. When he started talking all Albert Einstein I passed out so I don't recall the reasoning. I don't really care because in the midwest 1000's are gonna lose to 600's anyway! :lmao:
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: roadracer162 on October 30, 2011, 12:04:28 PM
Quote from: Rick Johnson 29 on October 26, 2011, 05:58:07 PM
It does not have to be called a GTO F40 or have anything to do with any GT races. We just want to have a chance to race with others over 40 on the bigger bikes. Having the bigger bikes scored just by themselves. The bikes that are legal for F40 as it is now would be scored the same as always. Unlimited F40 could be the name of this race not confuse it with any GT races. So for example: Race 7) Unlimited F40 and F40   Then on the grid CCS can post 2nd wave if they prefer to do so. If not it would be just one wave. Not that confusing really.

That's good reasoning there Rick. I suggest taking charge and finding interest in the class, maybe a signed petition, and submitting it to the Texas office.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on November 02, 2011, 02:11:29 PM
I sent my suggestion into the rules committee and sent Kevin a direct email about adding this class. That's about all I can do. I hope CCS will consider adding this class. If you all that want this class added and didn't get your suggestions submitted, maybe email CCS about it so they know there are many of us interested in entering this class if added. Do it soon!
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Falco on November 14, 2011, 06:23:14 PM
I am with Sobottka and SteveP on this issue. 
For the record I did race F40 this year as a rookie, yes I am a 40 year old rookie  :finger: . 
There are way to many classes and expending the F40 class does not make sense.  Scheduling the F40 class in a similar fashion as Rookies Cup (GTO, GTU, GTL) would create more problems.  If you stagger the start like Rookies Cup does, how are you going to separate Experts and Amateurs?  This means that there will be two different races:  one for Experts and one for Amateurs and I don't believe we could squeeze another race in an already full day.  In the Midwest CCS run 18-19 races per day!! 

Imagine a situation where you have experts that run within a second of the lap record (Sobottka, SteveP, JohnnyL, DirtNap, etc) and Lightweight F40 amateurs that are almost a minute behind their pace racing at the same time.  That would be scary, extremely dangerous and irresponsible.

As Sobottka pointed out, it is the racer who picked a certain bike that can only race in 3-4 classes.  If you wanted to race 7-12 races why not get a SV, with it you can race all day.  Fuck, you can race both F40 classes if you choose. 


bottom line:  CCS needs to trim its classes and eliminate the redundancy.  If you don't like the class structure, you should have bought a bike that better suits the regulation and not try to suit the regulations to your bike. 
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: twilkinson3 on November 15, 2011, 12:14:17 PM
While I agree with most of you points about running the LW F40 with unlimited bikes as the potential closing speeds would suck....a minute? really? lol BFR MW rounds it's more like 8-12 seconds off the lap record pace by the guys that run F40 LW lol (read Ed Key, Bruce Berry, etc, etc)

I'll be in F40 LW Aug this coming year and I'm slow (for an expert) at 13 seconds off the record - now if you said the same thing about Road America...well that is entirely a different animal....
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Falco on November 15, 2011, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: twilkinson3 on November 15, 2011, 12:14:17 PM
While I agree with most of you points about running the LW F40 with unlimited bikes as the potential closing speeds would suck....a minute? really? lol BFR MW rounds it's more like 8-12 seconds off the lap record pace by the guys that run F40 LW lol (read Ed Key, Bruce Berry, etc, etc)


You are talking about LW experts, I was talking about LW amateurs.  BTW Ed Key and Bruce are exception.  There were few guys running 1:38-1:40 in LW amateurs so maybe I exaggerated little bit, but imagine having them on a same track at the same time with Sobbotka, Johnny L, or FastEdy, George K, and i am not even talking about Bart etc.  Too many bikes with different speeds and approaches is a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on November 15, 2011, 09:00:35 PM
Your argument is very nice considering that you don't own a 1000cc bike. ::)   By your logic, those who purchased 1000cc bikes should be punished and offered fewer races than those who bought something smaller.  Maybe a good solution is to get rid of a few of the classes for the smaller displacement classes allowing a few more for the bigger bikes! :thumb:
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Falco on November 16, 2011, 10:53:31 AM
Quote from: mtmansl on November 15, 2011, 09:00:35 PM
Your argument is very nice considering that you don't own a 1000cc bike. ::)   By your logic, those who purchased 1000cc bikes should be punished and offered fewer races than those who bought something smaller.  Maybe a good solution is to get rid of a few of the classes for the smaller displacement classes allowing a few more for the bigger bikes! :thumb:

There is a reason why I don't own a 1000cc bike.  As a matter of fact I do own one, but I do not race with it.  Those who purchased a litter bike to race should have done their homework and should have purchased a bike that suits the classes they want to race not the other way around.  CCS should not change the rules to suit individual racer,  rules are rules. 

BTW I do not have a problem with 1000cc racing in F40,  on smaller tracks like BHF your 1000cc is just a handicap. 
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on November 16, 2011, 12:33:19 PM
I understand what you are say about closing speeds LW and Unlimited bikes. So yes we might have to add one race for safety reason. I'm sure CCS will make the races safe if a unlimited class is added. Maybe it could be structured something like this. Race1) LW F40 Ex & Am  Race2) Unlimited & MW F40 Am Race 3) Unlimited & MW F40 Ex   Just a idea! I'll let the higher powers work it out.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Falco on November 16, 2011, 02:30:53 PM
Quote from: Rick Johnson 29 on November 16, 2011, 12:33:19 PM
I understand what you are say about closing speeds LW and Unlimited bikes. So yes we might have to add one race for safety reason. I'm sure CCS will make the races safe if a unlimited class is added. Maybe it could be structured something like this. Race1) LW F40 Ex & Am  Race2) Unlimited & MW F40 Am Race 3) Unlimited & MW F40 Ex   Just a idea! I'll let the higher powers work it out.

Instead of getting rid of some classes and make it more manageable on race day, your proposal just added another race to an already full schedule.  Not only it added a race but also  made the grids much smaller.  Under your suggestions CCS may as well give out championships at the beginning of the season, because there will be 4-6 people in each class/group. 

Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: twilkinson3 on November 16, 2011, 02:33:54 PM
Quote from: Falco on November 15, 2011, 01:47:03 PM
You are talking about LW experts, I was talking about LW amateurs.  BTW Ed Key and Bruce are exception.  There were few guys running 1:38-1:40 in LW amateurs so maybe I exaggerated little bit, but imagine having them on a same track at the same time with Sobbotka, Johnny L, or FastEdy, George K, and i am not even talking about Bart etc.  Too many bikes with different speeds and approaches is a recipe for disaster.
We definitely agree it could be an ugly mess, I think you could run the MW and Unlimited F40 Am & Ex at the same time tho without any real difficulty
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on November 16, 2011, 03:57:26 PM
Not for me to say but it would might be better to keep the Unlimited & MW Am separate from the Experts but it could be done. Then that would not add a race. Cause as I've seen on some schedules form this year LW F40 was a different race from F40. I know that some days they cut it close to get in all the races but I don't think 15 mins will make or break the day. Heck some days we wait for a 2 hour team race and they still get all the races in. And adding a Unlimited F40 will be more racers to that grid because they isn't one now. Even if there is only 6 experts and 6 am.s on big bikes thats 12 more entry fees for CCS and we all get another race.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: roadracer162 on November 16, 2011, 08:36:40 PM
When it comes to safety I believe that there is more importance in how many bikes are on the track at one time, and then how much more powerful one bike is to another. Yes, all circumstances cannot be made perfectly safe but limiting risk can.

I say let the 1000 run in a F40 Superstock, 600 in F40 Supersport, and then the LW F40. But then it must be the organizers perogative as to how many bikes he deems safe to let onto the track at one time. There are moments when a class just doesn't have much participation and classes can be combined. if the grouping of classes become too large then other means must be investigated.

Mark
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: twilkinson3 on November 17, 2011, 02:47:49 PM
Quote from: Rick Johnson 29 on November 16, 2011, 03:57:26 PM
Not for me to say but it would might be better to keep the Unlimited & MW Am separate from the Experts but it could be done. Then that would not add a race. Cause as I've seen on some schedules form this year LW F40 was a different race from F40. I know that some days they cut it close to get in all the races but I don't think 15 mins will make or break the day. Heck some days we wait for a 2 hour team race and they still get all the races in. And adding a Unlimited F40 will be more racers to that grid because they isn't one now. Even if there is only 6 experts and 6 am.s on big bikes thats 12 more entry fees for CCS and we all get another race.
In the midwest this last year and late 2010 they ran together for the sprint races already, don't know about hte other regions but it didn't seem to cause any issues
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Falco on November 18, 2011, 09:07:17 AM
In the MW region (HPT and BHF) in 2011 LW-40 and F40 were never run together, they were two separate races.  F-40 was run with LW SS and with FemMoto few times but never together with LW F-40.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: twilkinson3 on November 18, 2011, 01:12:41 PM
Ya that lost a bit in translation hehe was trying to say middle weight amateur and expert sprint races and unlimited amateur and expert sprint races where run together - would likely be a subset of those same individuals in Unlimited F40
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on November 19, 2011, 03:18:56 PM
Well,

Good for you for doing your homework! :thumb:   Maybe I should have been a little more responsible like you and not have purchased a 1000cc to race.  What was I thinking and a huge disadvantage to boot???  Thanks for sorting us silly 1000cc racers out!
Quote from: Falco on November 16, 2011, 10:53:31 AM
There is a reason why I don't own a 1000cc bike.  As a matter of fact I do own one, but I do not race with it.  Those who purchased a litter bike to race should have done their homework and should have purchased a bike that suits the classes they want to race not the other way around.  CCS should not change the rules to suit individual racer,  rules are rules. 

  BTW I do not have a problem with 1000cc racing in F40,  on smaller tracks like BHF your 1000cc is just a handicap. 
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Sobottka on December 13, 2011, 03:06:46 PM
looks like those wanting an open displacement f-40 class get it for 2012.  ::) see here on pg 8 of the mailer http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2012/license/2012%20license%20mailer.pdf (http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2012/license/2012%20license%20mailer.pdf)
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on December 14, 2011, 03:44:47 PM
Nice. Glad it worked out!
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: mtmansl on December 14, 2011, 05:53:53 PM
Great news!
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Suburbanrancher on December 15, 2011, 12:51:10 PM
Time to race NJMP  8)

Thanks for opening it up to us liter-pilots  :thumb:
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Fast Eddy on December 15, 2011, 04:35:05 PM
Quote from: Sobottka on December 13, 2011, 03:06:46 PM
looks like those wanting an open displacement f-40 class get it for 2012.  ::) see here on pg 8 of the mailer http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2012/license/2012%20license%20mailer.pdf (http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2012/license/2012%20license%20mailer.pdf)
Dam, now I have to change bikes if I want to chase you in F40 or change to a 1K and try to chase Johnny..... DAM!
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: twilkinson3 on December 16, 2011, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: Fast Eddy on December 15, 2011, 04:35:05 PM
Dam, now I have to change bikes if I want to chase you in F40 or change to a 1K and try to chase Johnny..... DAM!
Now Ed...I seem to remember someone saying his 750 could outrun my CBR1k down the front straight at RA....whatever would you need a liter bike for (insert impish grin here)
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Falco on December 16, 2011, 11:30:48 AM
LOL, all the fast amateurs are on 750, that means the middleweight is wide open.   
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Fast Eddy on December 17, 2011, 10:14:17 PM
Quote from: twilkinson3 on December 16, 2011, 10:53:54 AM
Now Ed...I seem to remember someone saying his 750 could outrun my CBR1k down the front straight at RA....whatever would you need a liter bike for (insert impish grin here)
First, you are miss quoting me. I said my 750 could hang.
Second - The new BMW & ZX10 are the next level of power.

Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Tornado Bait on December 24, 2011, 12:12:38 PM
Quote from: Sobottka on December 13, 2011, 03:06:46 PM
looks like those wanting an open displacement f-40 class get it for 2012.  ::) see here on pg 8 of the mailer http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2012/license/2012%20license%20mailer.pdf (http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2012/license/2012%20license%20mailer.pdf)
Thats fine.  Gives me a chance to practice my passing.....every lap....in turn 1.....after the liter bikes blow by me and my lil 600 on the straight.  ;)
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: jigs on January 04, 2012, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: Tornado Bait on December 24, 2011, 12:12:38 PM
Thats fine.  Gives me a chance to practice my passing.....every lap....in turn 1.....after the liter bikes blow by me and my lil 600 on the straight.  ;)

Atta boy Ronny!!
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Fast Eddy on January 09, 2012, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: Tornado Bait on December 24, 2011, 12:12:38 PM
Thats fine.  Gives me a chance to practice my passing.....every lap....in turn 1.....after the liter bikes blow by me and my lil 600 on the straight.  ;)
You won't have to. There is a middle weight F40 now. Unless you want to race up?
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: ride_hard on January 11, 2012, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: Tornado Bait on December 24, 2011, 12:12:38 PM
Thats fine.  Gives me a chance to practice my passing.....every lap....in turn 1.....after the liter bikes blow by me and my lil 600 on the straight.  ;)

See you in turn one if you decide to come out of the ahem seasoned class.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Tornado Bait on January 15, 2012, 08:51:28 PM
If you race in the middle weight classes you'll see me.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Ducati23 on January 16, 2012, 06:31:37 PM
So is my new Panigale 1199 legal in F40?
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Fast Eddy on January 17, 2012, 04:19:34 PM
Quote from: Ducati23 on January 16, 2012, 06:31:37 PM
So is my new Panigale 1199 legal in F40?

Looks like...

QuoteCCS Updates:
Create Middleweight Formula 40 based
on CCS Middleweight SuperBike rules, to
run concurrently with Formula 40.
Change Formula 40 rules to accept all machines
eligible for Unlimited SuperBike
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Rick Johnson 29 on January 19, 2012, 05:08:54 PM
No!  Just kiddin. Should be. You ask Kevin to make sure.
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: banzai1 on January 21, 2012, 08:41:28 AM
Bring it on! I'll race my 750 agaist those corner blocking 1000's!
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: SnacktimeKC on February 04, 2012, 10:26:18 AM
Quote from: banzai1 on January 21, 2012, 08:41:28 AM
Bring it on! I'll race my 750 agaist those corner blocking 1000's!

Agreed, but at Road America and Daytona that ain't going to happen. Guess I'm not going there this year. -Snack
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: design-engine on April 14, 2012, 08:51:12 PM
people over 40 can;t hold on for 25 minutes.  oh wait ... Im over 40
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on April 15, 2012, 03:09:23 AM
Quote from: design-engine on April 14, 2012, 08:51:12 PM
people over 40 can;t hold on for 25 minutes.  oh wait ... Im over 40

Bart you have problems holding on for 5 min. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Why is there not a GTO class for 1000cc bikes in F40?
Post by: ramoszx12r on April 23, 2012, 07:58:59 PM
 Well my R1 and I will be there Blocking the coner.  LOL  :ahhh: