Are open headers without a muffler or silencer allowed at CCS events???
I ask as I have seen bikes racing without mufflers or silencers but thought the rule book stated that a muffler was required.
I found the following in the 2010 CCS Rulebook.
1.12 Exhaust Noise Limits - All machines must be equipped with a muffling
device that produces no more than 103db when measured at a point 50 feet
from the edge of track surface during on track activity.
1.12.1 The 103db limit may be lower at specific events to meet certain facility
regulations. Tracks with noise limits lower than 103db will have the
limit posted on the event schedule and event regulations.
1.12.2 Machines that fail to meet the noise requirement for the event will be
barred from participation until brought into compliance by the
competitor. There will be no financial relief in the event that the
If machine cannot be brought into compliance.
A. Machines that fail to meet the noise requirement may be pulled
off the track as soon and as safely possible, regardless of
whether the race or practice session has finished.
cough, cough........DALTON!..........cough, cough, ehmmm.... That's better!
It would be nice if they would start enforcing that, I don't mind loud exhausts but those open pipes sound ike shit.
Quote from: R1Racer99 on August 13, 2010, 02:50:02 AM
It would be nice if they would start enforcing that, I don't mind loud exhausts but those open pipes sound ike shit.
At CCS/Florida events open pipes are allowed in Expert Unlimited GP and any other class that the same bike is entered in. Nothing else! We even pay bonus money to those whose mufflers are off in that race! So if you don't like that sound, do not attend MOTOGP, F-!, IRL, NHRA or NASCAR! It's our main event!
HD
I've been to all of those except MotoGP and I love the sound of all of those engines. But a streetbike with no exhaust still sounds shitty in my opinion.
Especially nice inside the garage area
Quote from: R1Racer99 on August 13, 2010, 04:32:33 PM
I've been to all of those except MotoGP and I love the sound of all of those engines. But a streetbike with no exhaust still sounds shitty in my opinion.
A Suzuki GSX-R1000 with open pipes at full song, sounds as good as most MOTOGP bikes. Like I said your gonna hate MOTOGP!
HD
I wish I could run my RSV4 with no muffler in the Mid-Atlantic region. Pure music. Everyone one was loving it at the VIR South trackday yesterday.
That open pipe 1098 that Barrett Long and Chris Boy was really bad ass! I like the Unlimited GP as that all out format for racing.
Mark
does anybody check buel's for the 103db limit? pretty sure those rattletraps put out 200db while making 50hp, really nice in the pits!
To really answer your Q;, It is up to the track you are attending, Municipalities usually make the call and the track cowers...
Quote from: Noidly1 on August 14, 2010, 10:21:18 PM
To really answer your Q;, It is up to the track you are attending, whiney people who bought their home KNOWING it was next to a race track usually make the call and the track owners...
Fixed it for ya, Noid.
How true... Reminds me of M.A.R..
Noid when did they close down M.A.R.? I moved to St. Charles county in 1985 and I'm thinking it had to be before that.
I know they closed the road coarse a long time ago and ended up as just another pit area but, the drag strip was open for a while till about, I think, 8-10 years ago.
check out nitro noisefest , i was hoping henry would let eveyone run open pipes. just think when you order your grandsons new TZ and it comes with a battery charger and a sound card you will look back on this discusisson with fondness
Well, I guess open headers ARE legal at CCS events. Atleast in the Great Plains region.
I went through tech at Gateway and was scolded for not removing my belly pan.
I guess some guys get away with open headers and others get away with skipping belly pan removal.
Richard, Richard, Richard...............
I did not scold you!
Did I send you away to take it off? Did we not work through the problem?
You'll have to admit that the bodywork on your F2 is one of the reasons why removal of the belly pans became mandatory. It is virtually a solid piece of plastic with almost no venting slots or openings in it. And I'm supposed to sign off with my name that I have verified that bikes have the oil drain and oil filter safety wired and I can't see it.
I don't think that you'd want a Tech system that would take such a trivial approach to the requirements.
There are riders out there who do all their own maintenance and are meticulous about the setup on their bikes and they have slipped up before. I won't name names but they would be the last people you would suspect to make a mistake like that.
If I can't see them or feel the safety wire why bother having Tech? You may be able to say with 100% certainty that yours is wired, but would you trust everybody at their word? How comfortable does that make you feel about everyone else on the track..... can you safely say that not one of them didn't get in a hurry and forget to do their safety wire?
It's not a 100% foolproof system - but it's the rules that everyone agreed to play by.
As far as the open header issue..... I have talked to that rider and I accept his story on why it hasn't been replaced yet. It is a warranty issue and they have assured him it is being shipped this week.
OOOPPS.... I trusted him at his word! I wonder if he was being honest?
No you did not and I thank you. And yes we did work through it.
For a number of years I faithfully came to tech inspections with the pan removed. At the same time I have seen many riders go through tech with their pans on and no problems. I got tired of the extra work before tech and have left my pan on the for last three race weekends.
The pan is a bitch to remove on my F2 because of the frame sliders. To remove the pan I have to either remove the frame sliders or remove the upper. Anyway that my problem not yours.
I will make sure to remove the pan from here on out.
Anyway I think you know the original purpose and goal of the thread. I was hoping along with a few others that something could be done but I guess it cannot.
It is good to know that your are a trusting soul.
Quote from: Noidly1 on August 14, 2010, 11:49:24 PM
I know they closed the road coarse a long time ago and ended up as just another pit area but, the drag strip was open for a while till about, I think, 8-10 years ago.
Sounds about right. I used to race my mom's car there in highschool.
Quote from: funsizeracing on August 17, 2010, 11:53:51 AM
Sounds about right. I used to race my mom's car there in highschool.
Racing the parents car. Sweet!
Quote from: limelight on August 17, 2010, 01:52:00 AM
At the same time I have seen many riders go through tech with their pans on and no problems. I got tired of the extra work before tech and have left my pan on the for last three race weekends.
The pan is a bitch to remove on my F2 because of the frame sliders. To remove the pan I have to either remove the frame sliders or remove the upper. Anyway that my problem not yours.
maybe those guys who leave it on have quick disconnect fasteners or they can be seen with the belly pan on. just in case, i tag my oil filter and drain plug wire with a yellow "flag" made of duct tape for visibility
Thanks Rob! :thumb:
Quote from: Sobottka on August 18, 2010, 04:36:56 PM
, i tag my oil filter and drain plug wire with a yellow "flag" made of duct tape for visibility
yep....me too...some shit disturber at tech suggested that to me a while back
Quote from: Sobottka on August 18, 2010, 04:36:56 PM
just in case, i tag my oil filter and drain plug wire with a yellow "flag" made of duct tape for visibility
Good idea. I learned something new today.
how about a side door on a panio hinge 2 dezus fastners and a foam strip around so it woun't leak . that would be cool flip open wip out the pocket flash light done
Dalton's actually going to have it fixed for this weekend.
Wow.... What a gigantic bitch fest. Sounds like someone's got some sand in their... My GSX-R1000 doesn't SOUND bad with the muffler off. Is it loud? Hell yes. Entirely too loud. I have been busting my ass to get another can shipped from the factory, as the removal was due to a warranty covered incident. I DID finally receive it this week (a week later than what was originally stated by customer service staff.) Anyone ever been to a REAL race? Nascar, Nascar Trucks, Formula 1, etc...? You think the spectators complain about the deafening noise levels? No, they just enjoy the race they came to watch. Anyways... Now everyone can stop whining and complaining to the tech inspectors. These guys have enough on their plate, and shouldn't be catching an ear full about retarded issues. All the tech guys are VERY understanding and willing to work with anyone when a problem arises.
Removal of a belly pan at tech? Take the shit off if you have to. Or in my case, I just have to take out 3 fasteners and you can see the safety wire. Don't get too caught up by the "official book." Use some common sense... If you can see all necessary safety wired items with the belly pan on, do you really think tech is going to ask you to remove it just because that's what it says in the book, "word for word?" No. It would be wasting their time just as much as it would be wasting yours. This isn't MotoGP. This is club racing. Some of you all take this WAY too seriously.
I also know of some people that race with modified engines that claim they are stock so they can run SuperSport. Do I bitch about it and challenge the rider or CCS staff about word for word rules? No... Remember gentlemen/ladies, once again, this is CLUB racing. Enjoy the fun hobby and stop whining. Because all it is, is a hobby.
Looking at your "CIB" you know what's important and what's not!
Welcome home vet!
Quote from: Paratrooper22 on August 20, 2010, 07:29:36 PM
Wow.... What a gigantic bitch fest. Sounds like someone's got some sand in their... My GSX-R1000 doesn't SOUND bad with the muffler off. Is it loud? Hell yes. Entirely too loud. I have been busting my ass to get another can shipped from the factory, as the removal was due to a warranty covered incident. I DID finally receive it this week (a week later than what was originally stated by customer service staff.) Anyone ever been to a REAL race? Nascar, Nascar Trucks, Formula 1, etc...? You think the spectators complain about the deafening noise levels? No, they just enjoy the race they came to watch. Anyways... Now everyone can stop whining and complaining to the tech inspectors. These guys have enough on their plate, and shouldn't be catching an ear full about retarded issues. All the tech guys are VERY understanding and willing to work with anyone when a problem arises.
Removal of a belly pan at tech? Take the shit off if you have to. Or in my case, I just have to take out 3 fasteners and you can see the safety wire. Don't get too caught up by the "official book." Use some common sense... If you can see all necessary safety wired items with the belly pan on, do you really think tech is going to ask you to remove it just because that's what it says in the book, "word for word?" No. It would be wasting their time just as much as it would be wasting yours. This isn't MotoGP. This is club racing. Some of you all take this WAY too seriously.
I also know of some people that race with modified engines that claim they are stock so they can run SuperSport. Do I bitch about it and challenge the rider or CCS staff about word for word rules? No... Remember gentlemen/ladies, once again, this is CLUB racing. Enjoy the fun hobby and stop whining. Because all it is, is a hobby.
Your bike without an exhaust is no louder than mine was last year with the EKG full system I was running. No one ever bitched about it.
Dalton, the big reason people complain about your lack of pipe is because you feel the need to constantly rev the crap out of it when in the garages and in the pits. It just gets really old.
Here's the bottom line.
I worked Tech at Blackhawk in July and Gateway last weekend. I Teched Dalton's bike on both occasions. We talked at Blackhawk about the open pipe issue. He told me he was working with the manufacturer and they were going to replace the can as a warranty item. I let him run.
Come Gateway and he still doesn't have the can, even though he was assured by the company it was enroute. I was not happy. I made the decision to let him run as I did not see this as a safety issue or a performance advantage.
Given similar circumstances with any of you I would do everything I could to see if we could get you on the track.
To me, if it's not a safety violation and doesn't give someone an unfair advantage, it becomes a Customer Service issue and the racer is the Customer.
Now, if he shows up this weekend at Blackhawk and the can still isn't on (since he says he received it this week) it'll be a different story.
I would hope that if you were in Dalton's boots you would respect that.
Burt
I would be willing to bet that you had to repeatedly share a garage area or pit near the bike in question you might have a different perspective.
Also I am confident that a between ebay, craigslist, fellow races, etc. a cheap muffler could have been found to make the bike legal on the track and less obnoxious in the pits.
It is good to know that some rules are enforced and other are not.
Not to throw gas on a fire, and I have no dog in this fight. I do know Rick Weaver well enough to know that he exercises common sense and doesn't play favorites. I know this as I have known him for 6 years and I consider him a friend. With that said, I can also say that he has busted me more that once at tech in that time period.
Personally, if I had a problem with Rick I would go and talk to him about it and not make veiled passive aggressive comments on a race forum....but that's just me.
FISH ON
DUCK SEASON!
Dalton, you sure are lucky Larry isn't teching anymore. He would have sent you packing (with a good cursing out) the first time let alone the second. Not to mention any other race org I've raced with.
Rick you're a stand up guy but apparently way too nice, can I have a $100.00?
Hope you're well, Deuser
I understand how fortunate I was to be given a little break. My $900 muffler shot craps and I sure as hell wasn't gonna fork up the money to buy another one since the company was replacing it. There is no power boost, or unfair advantage here. Some of you act like I added a 100 shot of NOS on my bike by removing the muffler. Lol. Doesn't work like that. My lap times were actually slower at 2 different tracks after I yanked the can off. So do you really think I want to leave it off for power? Hell no...
Thanks for the words, John. Like I said, I do realize how flexible Rick has been with me. But as he stated before, there is no safety issue at stake, and there sure as hell is no unfair power advantage.
Nick: You are the only person in this thread that has mentioned a reasonable argument. I sometimes act like a smartass when I'm pulling in/out of the garage area, and yes, I can see how that can be a bit annoying. I apologize for that.
Yeah I don't think anyone was saying it was a performance advantage, its just a noise thing.
Nick: Read the "CCS TECH!!!!!!" In the "rules and regs" section. I got a good laugh. He is specifically saying it's a performance advantage.
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on August 21, 2010, 05:31:00 PM
BURT SEASON!!!!
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Burt is a pimp among pimps. :thumb:
Dalton- fix yer shit. It's too loud. :spank:
Love you both.
Hugs and smootches,
Ski
:kissy:
Quote from: Paratrooper22 on August 21, 2010, 09:17:13 PM
Nick: Read the "CCS TECH!!!!!!" In the "rules and regs" section. I got a good laugh. He is specifically saying it's a performance advantage.
Ahh, yeah I didn't see that. That dude is a moron...
Quote from: skiandclimb on August 21, 2010, 11:57:50 PM
Burt is a pimp among pimps. :thumb:
Dalton- fix yer shit. It's too loud. :spank:
Love you both.
Hugs and smootches,
Ski
:kissy:
When are you going to fix your noisy clutch?
Quote from: funsizeracing on August 24, 2010, 10:41:04 AM
When are you going to fix your noisy clutch?
I fixed it the other day, then sold the bike yesterday! Problem solved!!!! lol