Can I put nitrous on my SV to keep up with these things? :banghead:
Or, can anyone give me 32 grand so I can buy one? thanks.
Yeah, I have 32 that I will give you. Monolopy money
hey markie send him some yen besides don't you know LW is a rich mans class
My superbike took a dump on me so I've been riding my Supersport bike in all the races. Not that it would really matter. My superbike is a very mild with a stock bore and has maybe 83-84hp. Those things have some motor!!!
we got 120hp and markie works hard to stay with kevin's bimoto but i'm not sure it's SS legal we only meet in f40 and tbike
they are the air cooled 2 valve duc motors correct? what do they pit out in SS trim you think?
The newest DB7 has the 1098 motor in it!...We got 151 HP and 87.5 LB/FT out of my stock 1098 and the Bimota is lighter so I bet that thing fly's!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: duckracer996 on July 27, 2010, 11:25:33 AM
The newest DB7 has the 1098 motor in it!...We got 151 HP and 87.5 LB/FT out of my stock 1098 and the Bimota is lighter so I bet that thing fly's!!!!!!!!!!
The one with the 1098 motor isnt a lightweight.
all the ones down here are in lightweight and are 2 valve duelspark motors how big they are i'm not sure but atleast 1200cc plus the latest of everything plus a lightweight chassis over the duc SS
plus there SS trim is like full tilt compared to all the other bikes.
then there's the NCR which has a dual spark motor really surprised no one has raced one it's priced like the bimota
There was an NCR a couple years back at Daytona. He cleaned up in the classes he ran. As Marc has said the LW legal Bimotas have the air-cooled 2-valve motors and I am sure they are around 100rwhp. The leaned on Bimotas have some 120rwhp and now Kevin's is reported to have more now. He did turn some 15's at Roebling this past summer.
Mark
120hp from a 2 valve!!!!!!!! in a light weight Bimota chassis!....holly crap! I want one!
I'm glad there's ULWSB.......maybe there should be ULWSS???? no big honking air cooled 1200s allowed.
Quote from: MACOP1104 on July 28, 2010, 11:31:37 AM
I'm glad there's ULWSB.......maybe there should be ULWSS???? no big honking air cooled 1200s allowed.
Yep, I'm with you on that! :wah:
Buell 1200, Duc 1000DS, Bimota whatever they are. I say let them run Ltwt SBK but not Ltwt SS
the only change i wish they would make is allow 900 aircooled 2valves carberated in ultralight i can't run with those big inch bikes either or i could build an 800 motor for the 900 i guess but that's like building a new bike.
Marc, I was thinking about a 800 motor in the Superlight frame as Chris suggested. He said his weighed in something about 325#. That would be a pretty fast Ultralight SB. Or i could just cut everything off the 800 I have now.
On top of the DS, Bimota, and Buell in LW SB i would like to see the 748 in LW SB.
Quote from: majicMARKer on July 29, 2010, 12:23:30 PM
On top of the DS, Bimota, and Buell in LW SB i would like to see the 748 in LW SB.
Maybe we should add the early 2000's I4 600s to lightweight as well.... The 748 was competive then.....
Give the
real lightweight bikes a break already!
Quote from: Cowboy 6 on July 29, 2010, 02:54:07 PM
Maybe we should add the early 2000's I4 600s to lightweight as well.... The 748 was competive then.....
Give the real lightweight bikes a break already!
You're just not getting it, the real LW bikes are supposed to go beat up on the real ULW bikes. Then the real ULW bikes are supposed to beat up on...wait...that's not going to work.
ULW beats up vintage and vintage beats up 10 speeds and they beat up coaster brake and they piss off the segway guys and on and on......... been hanging around the flat track forum they have the same problems except its all of the sanctioning bodies in one forum. like the tower of babel. hey markie you want to go flattracking?
Quote from: majicMARKer on July 29, 2010, 12:23:30 PM
Marc, I was thinking about a 800 motor in the Superlight frame as Chris suggested. He said his weighed in something about 325#. That would be a pretty fast Ultralight SB. Or i could just cut everything off the 800 I have now.
On top of the DS, Bimota, and Buell in LW SB i would like to see the 748 in LW SB.
a liquid cooled desmo in LW? u r crazzeeeeeee!
Quote from: Cowboy 6 on July 29, 2010, 02:54:07 PM
Maybe we should add the early 2000's I4 600s to lightweight as well.... The 748 was competive then.....
Give the real lightweight bikes a break already!
At least your the first bike under 1000cc across the line!!
why don't we put your motor in my frame its at 310lbs without all the nonsense electroincs or we could just say we did and leave it alone just kidding i think i have enough parts to build a 800 minus a good set of pistons. i'm thinking about a st2 it has a linked suspension, ram air and a frame much like a superbike but better than a 888 but that's still to big for ultra light.
Quote from: Ducmarc on August 01, 2010, 01:41:25 PM
why don't we put your motor in my frame its at 310lbs without all the nonsense electroincs or we could just say we did and leave it alone just kidding i think i have enough parts to build a 800 minus a good set of pistons. i'm thinking about a st2 it has a linked suspension, ram air and a frame much like a superbike but better than a 888 but that's still to big for ultra light.
I've got some good 800 pistons albeit stock. Will that work?
Quote from: Ducmarc on August 01, 2010, 01:41:25 PM
why don't we put your motor in my frame its at 310lbs without all the nonsense electroincs or we could just say we did and leave it alone just kidding i think i have enough parts to build a 800 minus a good set of pistons. i'm thinking about a st2 it has a linked suspension, ram air and a frame much like a superbike but better than a 888 but that's still to big for ultra light.
superbike rules mandate original frame and engine combo don't they?
And SS rules require the same cams and crank in the original location, but it happens.
Now Marc, we could talk about that 750 made to develop 90hp at that 300# weight. I know where there is one and he wants my 800.
That would work except the 5spd
With my 800 I never use 6th. I like sprocket stock giving me a better starting gear. Those Ducatis love to wheelie and I just can't get my belly far enough forward.
I doubt a stock 1000 DS or 1100 for that matter makes 100 RWHP. Mine was one of the best running ones and it made 92 with the airbox lid intact, back when it was fresh that is ;) slip ons, power commander, high flow breather. The 1100 makes maybe a little more.
Comparing any of the Bimotas now racing in ccs (except for Mavros's) to stock bikes is about the same as comparing your chevy malibu to a NASCAR cup car. One of the Motocorse Bimotas has a $50,000 wiring harness. No I'm not kidding.
Those bikes are built to the rules and are fast, and are not racing in SuperSport. I think the rules as they stand are pretty good, with ULW now allowing SV's.
As far as ULW, I wish I had my old 750 back, yes it was a 5 speed but I never thought that was a big deal- 350 pounds even with that big old steel tank.....I sometimes wonder how fast I could go on that bike now if I had it back....but man, was it ancient!
Well this I know. My Ducati 800 with a mild SB build makes 87hp on the Superflow at MotoCorse-not bad I must say. I would think I would have a clear advantage over the SV with the likes of Mavros, DeSouza, Cohen when he had his with all of them claiming less hp and runing SS. Except for Mavros who uses the Bimota for SS. I run dead even with them on the 6/10 mile back straight of PBIR or Homestead. Other SV's like Pony or Brian Gordon's with the SB build definitely pull on me, Pony because he is so small but Brian and I are about the same size.
The SV in my mind clearly has an advantage. I have also compared my 800 against a similar build 900 and the SS build DS1000 and they are certainly faster with about the same chassis the DS has the advantage. I can't imagine how much faster the Bimota is. The last round at PBIR gave me the opportunity to run against those SS spec Bimotas in GT Lights. I hang with them in the tighter sections but the pull away from me on the 6/10 mile back straight. I must say they gain about 10 bike lengths.
The rules are what they are and I race within them. There are many that do not. If we leave the rules alone then leave them alone accross the board, or fixx them like it should have been.
Can an NCR run SS?
Why doesnt anyone race the BMW R1200s? It is allowed in the class,not the hp2. Youll have on the avg 115hp and tons of tq.IAnt it only cost new like 15k and you can get a used one for under 10 k.Remember how fast nate goes riding it? If i had the $$$$ i would ride that bike,then everyone will say that bike is too fast.In moto-st only the SV 1000 riden by the M4 team was able too keep up with that bike.
the National Cash Register bike is a legal road going production bike and i'm surprised someone has not brought one out it looks to have everything to race with all financed in one bit.
Quote from: apriliaman on September 15, 2010, 04:53:42 PM
Why doesnt anyone race the BMW R1200s? It is allowed in the class,not the hp2. Youll have on the avg 115hp and tons of tq.IAnt it only cost new like 15k and you can get a used one for under 10 k.Remember how fast nate goes riding it? If i had the $$$$ i would ride that bike,then everyone will say that bike is too fast.In moto-st only the SV 1000 riden by the M4 team was able too keep up with that bike.
Well, I've seen a few show up at races from time to time but they don't seem to stick around more than 1 or 2 rounds. The HP and torque sounds good; however, given the weight of the bike and the funky shaft drive system I think you need a very physically fit and tallented rider to go fast. Also, as with any "unusual" bike in the paddock you don't have any spare parts availability/support at the track and nobody can help you with set-up. You would really need to be dedicated and good at set-up to really be effective on this bike. The Moto-ST team had good, experienced riders, got lots of track time to get set-up right and a dealerhsip support semi at the track - you need to take that into consideration when you look at the results.
That said - I got a front row seat watching Nate run that thing into the kink at Road America (I had a mechanical and I parked it to the side of the track). Sitting just over the wall it ws surreal watching how far sideways Nate got it on the brakes into the kink and then watching the bike load up and shift to the side on its axis due to the torque being transmitted though the shaft drive.
Very cool.
George
Quote from: Ducmarc on September 15, 2010, 09:51:01 PM
the National Cash Register bike is a legal road going production bike and i'm surprised someone has not brought one out it looks to have everything to race with all financed in one bit.
One showed up at Road America in 2008 (I think it was 2008). The bike was very fast, but either the ridier was pretty slow or (more likely) was terrified of destroying his $50,000 motorcycle. The carbon fiber body work on it was beautiful and I am sure that the replacement cost of that an any of the other unobtanium NCR parts was weighing heavily on his mind every race.
George
The NCR is not sold for street use, thus it is not legal for SS, SB, TB, etc. One showed up at Daytona in 2007 and Jason (I think) protested and he was only allowed to run in LWGP.
Mark I'm curious as to how fast that 800 is, let's try to ride together at PBIR if you're coming.
Also, I'm curious as to what SuperSport spec Bimotas you ran against at PBIR? Unless you're referring to Mavros.
Bottom line, the rider is everything. Last time out at Homestead, I didn't get within a second of my fastest lap, and although the motor might be a little tired, it's not the bike's fault. Maybe if I started concentrating on what I'm doing instead of thinking about the bank account, what's for dinner, or the last time I tightened the front axle!
I remember that NCR at Daytona-he was fast.
I am going to PBIR just for the fun of it. I am trying to come to grips with these Michelin tires but choose to take baby steps. I am riding more at a relaxed pace due to my last injury(wrist). I don't want to see that ortho ever again so I can also understand your limitations. One thing for sure is that I really enjoy pestering Charlie in the Ultralight class.
We shall rider together for a few if you are up to it.
The Bimotas I speak of is Kat and Bob on theirs. They probably are not totally SS but they are nothing like Kevin's. I must say even though a rider may have a fast bike it doesn't mean that that person will be fast. Kevin certainly is along with the company I keep in the GT Lights class.
Quote from: majicMARKer on September 16, 2010, 05:57:38 PM
I remember that NCR at Daytona-he was fast.
I am going to PBIR just for the fun of it. I am trying to come to grips with these Michelin tires but choose to take baby steps. I am riding more at a relaxed pace due to my last injury(wrist). I don't want to see that ortho ever again so I can also understand your limitations. One thing for sure is that I really enjoy pestering Charlie in the Ultralight class.
We shall rider together for a few if you are up to it.
The Bimotas I speak of is Kat and Bob on theirs. They probably are not totally SS but they are nothing like Kevin's. I must say even though a rider may have a fast bike it doesn't mean that that person will be fast. Kevin certainly is along with the company I keep in the GT Lights class.
I rode with Kat at Roebling. I would be on her butt through turn 9 on my stock motor Supersport SV and she would pull me by 200ft before turn 1. My SV is pretty stock and I outweigh her by 70lbs so that didn't help! I asked her about her motor and she said it had some work. She rides very smooth and smart. Anyone know if her group is going to VIR Sep25-26? It's not a FLorida region race but I thought they might make the trip..
Thus the reason for you not passing Kat. You were watching her butt through T9 found commonly the tactic of guys following Kat. It's not your SV, it's not your weight she has come a long way in the short year of her riding. My guess is she will be there as it seems she is always riding on any given weekend.
Quote from: majicMARKer on September 19, 2010, 11:21:13 AM
Thus the reason for you not passing Kat. You were watching her butt through T9 found commonly the tactic of guys following Kat. It's not your SV, it's not your weight she has come a long way in the short year of her riding. My guess is she will be there as it seems she is always riding on any given weekend.
LOL... pretty good one. She is fast no doubt and very smooth. She was running good lap times in the race I was out there with her but she was in a different class way out in front. I checked her lap times from another race and she was 2 sec a lap faster. There's another Am with a yellow/black Bimota under her canopy too. His bike is equally fast on the long VIR straight... Anyway, I hope they show up. Heck, I hope everyone shows up! There's a WERA regional that same weekend, hope it doesn't take awy from the turn out...
The yellow and black Bimota hmm..sounds like Jeff Puleo(#706) They all camp under the MotoCorse trailer headed by Chris Boy a very fast and talented racer. Al and Larry are wizards at making these Ducatis and Bimotas run.
does Klotz still sell nitromethane in the small metal containers???
LOL...I raced against those big Ducatis back in 2005 and it seemed everyone in the Florida lightweight ranks started to drift towards riding a Ducati. I finally joined the Ducati group in 2008 and promptly spent twice the amount putting this Ducati 800.
same thing happened to me,when i raced in flordia for the first time i was like the only SV out there and everyone had ducati's,so I had to get one.
I guess now everyone has to ante up with 32k + for a Bimota if you want to run lightweight!
Next to the $32+ the AMB transponder is nothing.
Quote from: Cowboy 6 on September 23, 2010, 07:51:07 AM
I guess now everyone has to ante up with 32k + for a Bimota if you want to run lightweight!
Or switch to WERA. Duc 800 is the biggest thing out there in Ltwt classes. I did Cycle Jam this year at VIR and had a blast!
I've been rethinking this whole thing. Whether I spend $32K on a Bimota or $32K on an SV to beat tthat Bimota-it is up to me to make that choice.
Leave the rules as they are and "Run what you brung". Let's race.
Quote from: majicMARKer on September 28, 2010, 01:17:05 PM
Leave the rules as they are and "Run what you brung". Let's race.
LW Formula 1 Supersport? Run what you brung is great for superbike but not supersport. With WERA, the air cooled 1000s-1200s have nowhere to race and that stinks. What I am suggesting is keeping them out of LWSS and let them race LWSB and LWTGP. Not just the Bimotas, the Buells and the Ducs too.
In truth, Supersport isn't stock. What I am saying is when that SV rider builds that SS machine that runs with and beats that Bimota or whatever, that Bimota owner shouldn't complain about that SV.
Quote from: majicMARKer on September 30, 2010, 07:54:47 AM
In truth, Supersport isn't stock. What I am saying is when that SV rider builds that SS machine that runs with and beats that Bimota or whatever, that Bimota owner shouldn't complain about that SV.
The Bimota rider has nothing to complain about. Build a SS legal SV and with MR12 in it you will have between 80-83 HP. Do the same with a DUC/Bimota motor and what would you have? I'd love to see the HP and torque curves of these two bikes overlayed on the same graph.
Found some dyno sheets. Typical 2nd gen SV with SS mods has 80-83HP and 49 ft lbs of torque. The Ducati motor with a pipe and DP ECU made 86HP and 70 ft lbs of torque. Do a full SS build on a Bimota/Ducati and with race fuel those numbers go up by 8-10% easy. IMO, way too much for the class....
When you go to LW Superbike, the gap gets even larger....
I am not disputing that the Bimota is a class killer especially in SS class. I am with your thinking or at least on the same lines. The rules were not changed to allow the Bimota into the SS class but instead Bimota built a bike using the Ducati motor that fits that class. I honestly feel that a 1000 anything does not equate to a lightweight. Reality is the class exists as it is with the current rules that have been in place for quite some time.
In theory, a rider that has the money to spend either on a high dollar bike or for high dollar upgrades has that perogative to spend big bucks. I don't have the big bucks to put into a machine but I have spent the most I have ever spent into a race bike. Come to find out it isn't all that much compared to others building the SV machine.
Let's talk hp. My Ducati 800 produced 87hp on a Superflow dyno-I saw it. When I race against those SV's my bike is dead even to those SS spec SV in a staright line. After speaking to the owner/rider of that SV I learned that his SV produces 84hp. My bike is considered a SB and his is considered a SS. I have also raced against some other 1st gen SV's that reportedly produced 80hp and my bike just couldn't keep up with-they have high comp pistons and flatslides. The Bimota on the same dyno that mine was tested produces somewhere in the neighborhood of 95-100hp.
I believe that one of the big benefits of the Bimota is the lightweight machine. The Bimota essentially uses the same motor as the Ducati DS or Hyper-motard. The Hyper-motard does have a lighter motor so I would guess the Bimota does the same. I am sure there are guys out there on the Duc doing that mod that an SV rider nver knows about.
In the end I believe that with a surplus of disposable money any bike could be made faster, lighter and more competent. Ed Key and his machines are inspirational. 288lbs and 80+ hp...I wonder how much his bikes cost.
I love my Ducati 800. It is a lot of fun to ride and I get a kick out of riding it against the big bikes and doing well. I will continue to develop it and lighten it as much as possible. Some tell me it isn't worth it but for me it is a challenge.
my SV 650 is a real SS it has 75hp,385lbs with a full tank and i still get blown away in the straights.I dont know what i can do to get more then 80 hp as a supersport.I can have my engine balanced ,but how much would that be and how much more power do you really get.
Quote from: apriliaman on September 30, 2010, 10:34:58 AM
my SV 650 is a real SS it has 75hp,385lbs with a full tank and i still get blown away in the straights.I dont know what i can do to get more then 80 hp as a supersport.I can have my engine balanced ,but how much would that be and how much more power do you really get.
A 2nd Gen SS SV with milled heads/thin head gasket, a good valve job, LEO or M4 pipe, and mapped for oxygenated fuel will have 80 + HP.
I have no problem with the Duc 800. I have heard a supersport Duc 800 can put out about 78-80 HP. More or less comparable to a SS SV.
IMO, WERA does it right. no 1000-1200 air cooled twins in SS. They are allowed in SBK and F2 with SS mods only.
QuoteI have also raced against some other 1st gen SV's that reportedly produced 80hp and my bike just couldn't keep up with-they have high comp pistons and flatslides.
High Comp pistons and/or flatslides aren't SS legal tho on a gen1 sv, reality is your average gen1 sv makes 68-70hp and a gen2 makes about 5 more in untouched form...if the motors are fresh
Quote from: MACOP1104 on September 30, 2010, 11:21:48 AM
A 2nd Gen SS SV with milled heads/thin head gasket, a good valve job, LEO or M4 pipe, and mapped for oxygenated fuel will have 80 + HP.
I have no problem with the Duc 800. I have heard a supersport Duc 800 can put out about 78-80 HP. More or less comparable to a SS SV.
IMO, WERA does it right. no 1000-1200 air cooled twins in SS. They are allowed in SBK and F2 with SS mods only.
+1
That is a great and competitive classing arrangement. Ducati fans save a ton of cash on mods too!
Quote from: Cowboy 6 on September 30, 2010, 01:57:05 PM
+1
That is a great and competitive classing arrangement. Ducati fans save a ton of cash on mods too!
What on earth makes you think that all of us Duciti Racers want to save on modifications? One of the things I actually like about the Ducati SS line of bikes are all of the creative and inventive things that can go into a superbike design. I haven't been trying to push the envelope too far, but I have had fun doing a bunch of different things between power, handling & weight loss.
It would be no different if I had an SV - I just DO NOT WANT and SV. I think the ultimate expression of a Superbike SV has been done already by a couple of folks. To me it is much more interesting to work off of a different template.
Ultimately, if you want to win in Superbike, build a Superbike.
How hard is that to figure out?
Quote from: twilkinson3 on September 30, 2010, 01:50:55 PM
High Comp pistons and/or flatslides aren't SS legal tho on a gen1 sv, reality is your average gen1 sv makes 68-70hp and a gen2 makes about 5 more in untouched form...if the motors are fresh
I was merely pointing out that hp has nothing to do with being faster, at least in my real world comparisons. What I have seen on SS SV's locally being raced is 72hp for a relatively stock motor. I am sure a good SS build could get some more-ram air possibly? If I remember correctly Ed Key's SS build produces 80hp. Check RRW page 82. I know of at least one SV that has $4K in the motor, undercut trans, balanced crank, milled heads and some other work I can't remember.
Just saying there is more that can be done. Building a Ducati anything isn't cheap.
Mark- I don't know how reliable the bathroom scale is but I did it today on the Ducati 800. 170# on the front and 165# on the rear. Total that number gives a reading of 335# with maybe 1 gallon of fuel. 385# for the SV sounds pretty heavy considering it is listed being lighter than the Ducati in street form.
Quote from: majicMARKer on September 30, 2010, 08:58:06 PM
. I am sure a good SS build could get some more-ram air possibly? If I remember correctly Ed Key's SS build produces 80hp. Check RRW page 82. I know of at least one SV that has $4K in the motor, undercut trans, balanced crank, milled heads and some other work I can't remember.
Just saying there is more that can be done. Building a Ducati anything isn't cheap.
I don't think undercut tranny and balanced crank are SS legal mods. Ram air? My bike is SS WERA legal which have a lot tighter SS rules. No ram air, no slipper clutch, no Brembo master, no lightweight battery. The WERA rulebook states if it's not listed as a legal mod, then you can't do it.
That is one of the many differences of WERA to CCS. In CCS SS does not necessarily mean stock. I am addressing CCS rules and the use of that $32K. Ram air is allowed in SS that I know of, and yes there is a SS built SV with undercut tranny running in CCS as well as many I can only amigane. You can only know if it were to be torn down and the tech guy making the decision knows the difference. Do they just check bore and stroke of a motor or will they know the diffence between my stock or High comp pistons?
Quote from: majicMARKer on October 01, 2010, 01:19:30 PM
That is one of the many differences of WERA to CCS. In CCS SS does not necessarily mean stock. I am addressing CCS rules and the use of that $32K. Ram air is allowed in SS that I know of, and yes there is a SS built SV with undercut tranny running in CCS as well as many I can only amigane. You can only know if it were to be torn down and the tech guy making the decision knows the difference. Do they just check bore and stroke of a motor or will they know the diffence between my stock or High comp pistons?
I can't understand the liberal rules of CCS. I thought the idea of SS was to keep the costs down?
As far as cheating goes, it happens and it always will. If it gets to the point where I was putting up the money for a tear down. I would be in the tech shed keeping an eye on things. An aftermarket piston is real easy to spot.
I bought a SS legal motor last year from a racer and decided to have some work done to it. My builder said the intake valves were unshrouded, Illegal for SS. Luckily I have been using that motor for SBK the entire year.
My 1st race this season I took a walk thru the pits and made some small talk with some SV racers. One racer I talked to had a SS and a SBK SV. I was familiar with his SBK because he posted his build on another forum. I asked him how the ULWSB class is on his SS SV since his SBK had an overbore. He told me he runs his SBK in ULWSB becuase everyone else with 2mm or 3mm pistons does...... whatever???
I guess you and I are a few that stick to strict letter of the rules.
CCS can be considered liberal, but come to think of it so is World SS.
I always thought that the lightweight classes were the inexpensive classes but I am sorely mistaken. Lightweight is considered the class where a beginning racer starts.
I started my sons on the FZR400 which is inexpensive and fun to ride. Tires last 4 weekends and you can use the older set for practice until there is no more rubber. The power is not overwhelming so many lessons can be learnt without the fear of a highside.
So you see changing the rules won't change a thing. Someone will always find a way to get by them anyway.
Quote from: majicMARKer on October 01, 2010, 06:48:18 PM
II always thought that the lightweight classes were the inexpensive classes but I am sorely mistaken. Lightweight is considered the class where a beginning racer starts.
Lets look at it the other way. I submit that LWSB is the ideal builder class. These are the only bikes where I can actually use and benefit from all of the Superbike modifications. I can't nearly use the power of a stock liter bike - what motivation whould I have to building an unlimitd superbike? It would not make me any faster. However, I can get significant improvement in my laptiimes going from a LWSS to a LWSB build. The better and more complete the build the better the lap times.
You want to start racing - LWSS is a fine place to begin and costs can be kept down. Unfortunately, that 10 year old stock SV isn't raly going to be competitive in more than 1 class anymore and those LW guys who want to win in multiple classes have all built credible superbikes.
It isn't that CCS rules are right and WERA rules are wrong - they are just different. Some prefer one to the other. Nothing wrong with that. I see Mongo's point on the rules. The SV guys tend to be notoriously cheep and if he opens the rules too much he faces completely losing that crowd. CCS on the other hand got an influx of Ducati and Buell riders who can't play in Mongo's playground because of his rules. OK by me, as long as these same SV riders don't try and change the CCS rules that I enjoy. If, however, Mongo opened up his rules and allowed the air-cooled Ducati Superbikes in the his LWSB class - I would come and play. This said, lets be clear, I have no intention of ever running Supersport anything (too damn much cheating).
George
Quote from: majicMARKer on October 01, 2010, 06:48:18 PM
I guess you and I are a few that stick to strict letter of the rules.
CCS can be considered liberal, but come to think of it so is World SS.
I always thought that the lightweight classes were the inexpensive classes but I am sorely mistaken. Lightweight is considered the class where a beginning racer starts.
I started my sons on the FZR400 which is inexpensive and fun to ride. Tires last 4 weekends and you can use the older set for practice until there is no more rubber. The power is not overwhelming so many lessons can be learnt without the fear of a highside.
So you see changing the rules won't change a thing. Someone will always find a way to get by them anyway.
Quote from: George_Linhart on October 02, 2010, 06:38:36 PM
Lets look at it the other way. I submit that LWSB is the ideal builder class. These are the only bikes where I can actually use and benefit from all of the Superbike modifications. I can't nearly use the power of a stock liter bike - what motivation whould I have to building an unlimitd superbike? It would not make me any faster. However, I can get significant improvement in my laptiimes going from a LWSS to a LWSB build. The better and more complete the build the better the lap times.
You want to start racing - LWSS is a fine place to begin and costs can be kept down. Unfortunately, that 10 year old stock SV isn't raly going to be competitive in more than 1 class anymore and those LW guys who want to win in multiple classes have all built credible superbikes.
It isn't that CCS rules are right and WERA rules are wrong - they are just different. Some prefer one to the other. Nothing wrong with that. I see Mongo's point on the rules. The SV guys tend to be notoriously cheep and if he opens the rules too much he faces completely losing that crowd. CCS on the other hand got an influx of Ducati and Buell riders who can't play in Mongo's playground because of his rules. OK by me, as long as these same SV riders don't try and change the CCS rules that I enjoy. If, however, Mongo opened up his rules and allowed the air-cooled Ducati Superbikes in the his LWSB class - I would come and play. This said, lets be clear, I have no intention of ever running Supersport anything (too damn much cheating).
George
I love the LW classes. I can get several weekends out of my tires and it's a great class to race. I did my first WERA weekend this summer and I had a blast. I'm not trying to turn this into a WERA vs CCS discussion but you are right, WERA rules are more friendly towards the SV and the air cooled 1000cc bikes have to stay supersport to race in WERA superbike. But, WERA must be doing something right because their grids are usually bigger. I guess Mongo thinks it's better to have a grid full of cheap riders on SVs that are still in production rather than smaller grids full of 1000cc air cooled superbikes that are no longer made.
Quote from: MACOP1104 on October 02, 2010, 08:18:12 PM
I love the LW classes. I can get several weekends out of my tires and it's a great class to race. I did my first WERA weekend this summer and I had a blast. I'm not trying to turn this into a WERA vs CCS discussion but you are right, WERA rules are more friendly towards the SV and the air cooled 1000cc bikes have to stay supersport to race in WERA superbike. But, WERA must be doing something right because their grids are usually bigger. I guess Mongo thinks it's better to have a grid full of cheap riders on SVs that are still in production rather than smaller grids full of 1000cc air cooled superbikes that are no longer made.
I personally don't know if the WERA LW grids are bigger than CCS or not. It might be highly depenent on region and how much overlap there is at each specific track. WERA just doesn't do a whole lot here in the Midwes and I've been running a pretty limited schedule the last 2 years so I don't really have any way to judge. If somebody has number at tracks common to both (say VIR, Summit, NJMP) it cold be interesting to check.
But, you know, the funny thing is that it seems to me that since the demise of the SV cup the fastest SV guys are on 1st gen units, not the ones currently in production so your critisim rings a bit hollow to me.
I lso think that it is incorrect to say the Ducati air-cooled bike isn't around. While the SS model is gone they have moved the motor into the Monster 1100S, Hypermotard and the Sport Classic lines. I have seen a handfull of Monsters and Sport Classics on the grid. Those chassis are at least as capable as the SS was, maybe better (the down side is less knowledge on set up). I keep eyeing the Monster 1100S and it looks like a great starting point - if I didn't already have so much money and time invested in the develpment of my 1000SS I would not hesitate to jump to that platform.
There were a huge # of Buells and they will still be racing. That actually might become the budget platform as long as we can find parts (or parts bikes). Those are not going to disapear overnight just because Harley pulled the plug on Buell (just like the 1st gen SVs are sticking around.
All this said, one of the biggest issues we face is a lack of new and compelling product in the LW space. I would absolutely love to see a new 700 cc liquid cooled sporting twin bike hit the stage by one of the major manufacturers - unfortunately I don't think it is going to happen. How cool would it be to see a new bike with a purpose built and modern V-Twin motor rapped in a middleweight sportbike chassis, lightweight running gear and real brakes/suspension???? Wouldn't an update of the SV motor (starting as a 700 vs. a Japan market 400) in a GSXR chassis and running gear be awesome? How about a downsized version of the RC51? Maybe even a new Ducati 648 built off the 1198/848 line? It probably wouldn't be any cheeper than the MW bike line up, but if built right it would be so much more fun and I wouldn't hesistate to buy....
Oh well, untill that new product comes out we all have to keep racing the current LW offerings and (hopefully) continuing to improve them though good use of aftermarket parts.
George
The Aprilia Shiver is the only new design lightweight bike that's come out in a while. Kawasaki took a stab at the SV market with the new Ninja 650 but it falls a bit short as a SS bike. The nature of most lightweight bikes are entry level machines so the manufacturers use dated technology to keep costs down (damper rod forks, non adjustable shock, etc etc). A modern lightweight bike with all the new bits would cost too much. Why buy a lightweight bike with say 85hp that costs as much as a middleweight with 110hp?
I'm in the South East so WERA is pretty strong here. The WERA SE region had 15 races this year!
With the lack of Suzuki contingency and Suzuki Cup money a lot of the fast SV guys cut back their programs. These guys ran SS SVs because thats where Suzuki paid and the 2nd gen SS SV has a big advantage over the 1st gen SS SV (bigger stock cams). The fastest superbike SVs are usually 1st gen because they are carb motors and the flat slides make a huge difference. A lot easier to bolt on a set of flat slides than adapt some SV1000 or 1000 Vstrom TBs to the 2nd gen bike. I have a 2nd SV SBK and as a compromise I had the stock 39mm TBs punched out to 42mm. It helps at high RPMs but no where near the rsults a set of 41mm flats will yield.
To the other mark I weighted my bike at the track when they have asra races.
My 1999 SV 650 FULL TANK 385 365 close to empty , moto-st had a 360 limit so my bike would be close if i raced it for them
MY 2005 DUC 1000DS FULL TANK 419 , 408 after gt lights race, would like to make it lighter if i had some extra $$$
MY 1988 FZR 400 FULL TANK 410 havent weighed with low gas
I dont have any lightweight parts in them at all as you can see.
Mark E,- Thanks for the info. That shows just how inaccurate the bathroom scale method is. Equally unbelievable is how heavy the little FZR weighs.
George- I can understand and appreciate that reasoning in it's entirety.
Having been racing 30 yrs or so with WERA,CCS & AMA and the Lightweight class since its inception on RDs ,RZs,EX and FZRs since the early 80s. I have seen alot of stuff. I came back last year to have fun and be competitive. I went to LWSS. I did not think from the start 1000cc and Bimotas should be legal. Yes we out ride them time to time. But in a real show down likw the ROC a stock SV is back of the pack. The SVs that are keeping up are bending the rules. Now if I want to be competitive next season I have to buy a 1000 or Bimota.These bikes should not be in LWSS.We used to have a class called Production (Proddy) Now SS is a superbike class.
It's true that cheating is rampant in the LWSS class. I know because I'm not cheating and I'm getting motored by smaller bikes that are supposedly SS legal.
Tony, I think you and I (and possibly Patrick) are the only experts running truly legal LWSS bikes. I didn't bother protesting anyone at the ROC because when you are 3 seconds slower than the leaders, it's not the bike's fault. When I have improved my times and get beaten head to head by a cheater engine, I have and will protest again.
Or I could just take the plunge and build a Superbike, forget supersport.
Bimotas should not be an issue, none of the ones in our region are SS legal. Several of the moto corse bikes are over 115 HP at the rear wheel. $32K is just the starting point for most of them.
As for the SS debate, my bike when freshly built made 89 HP on the Dynojet with the airbox lid intact. The only mods are power commander, slip ons, K&N filter, high flow breather and 520 chain and sprockets. On the ASRA scales it weighed in at 405 pounds post race (about a gallon of fuel left). The only weight reduction I have done is the fairing bracket. Yes, this means the 1000DS definitely has an advantage over the SV in Supersport, but the SV had the advantage over the Aprillia 250 and the Ducati 750 had the advantage over the Honda Hawk. The Honda Hawk edged out the Ninja 500....life marches on. Whatever new machine is introduced will no doubt be decried as a "cheater bike" and there will be further outrage. If you want to win at the expert level you probably have to compete on the latest greatest stuff....what else is new? I ran SuperTwins this weekend on my stock 996, probably a 70HP DIS-advantage but still had a good time.
On another note, George I would love to see some pics or specs on your 1000DS project- I love that kind of stuff!
Quote from: racer880 on October 19, 2010, 10:10:19 AM
Now if I want to be competitive next season I have to buy a 1000 or Bimota.These bikes should not be in LWSS.We used to have a class called Production (Proddy) Now SS is a superbike class.
The 1000s have always been allowed but with time and technology they got faster. Just like the Duc Supermono was indexed out of some classes. Should the Bimota be indexed out also? What is the the true concept of light weight classes? Surely not $32000 motorcycles with 100+ HP. What is the concept of supersport classes and why can people use ram air, slipper clutches, Brembo master cylinders? Let the Bimota race in Thunderbike, LTWT GP, Ltwt SBK and GT Lights. Boot the 1000s out of LTWT Supersport. Boot the SV superbikes out of ULWSB, supersport SVs only. That will give Hawks, FZR400s and EXs a place to play.
Gino230,
Your Duc 1000 made 89hp. Considering the weight of that bike and a true SS legal SV has about 82hp on MR12, that's not that bad of a spread for LWSS.
But, what would your bike make with a full system, milled heads, and MR12?
I had the opportunity to weigh my bike this weekend at the ROC. The #22 Ducati 800 weighs in at 365# with two gallons of fuel. Weight reduction include a carbon fuel tank, aluminium fairing stay and Marchesini Aluminium wheels. The usual Woodcraft clip-ons, rearsets and bodywork was also replaced. As stated in an earlier post the motor produces almost 87 hp presumably on the same dyno as Gino's.
Gino-Yours may be a little down on power based on what I know of other 1000's on the same dyno making 93-96 depending on whether the lid is on.
On the SV and their legality. At the ROC I was informed by the owner of a very fast SV that his is a SS build making the 84hp(2nd gen). His bike is also much lighter than mine. He did do a 1:34.9 at Homestead which is very fast for a lightweight bike. That's what I saw on the time-sheets. He also apparently went faster and blasted out a 1:34.1.
As for the legality of the SV-are cam swaps legal in SS? Is using an earlier crank legal? Also found out that bike has a 1mm overbore which is illegal for Ultralight SB(makes it 660cc or somewhere about there). On a given weekend I would typically beat that rider when he was running in the 37's. This weekend I had nothing for them.
I think the SS class is what it is. If there ought to be a stock class maybe it can be called Superstock or Production.
mark you need to race up this way to the north where there are alot of fast SV'S!! ,there is also buells also which you dont have much in your area.
For Mark - and this is to my knowledge -
2nd gen cams in a first gen motor are not legal for SS (I asked...) a first gen crank in a second gen motor are not legal, a 2nd gen engine (cases bottom half only even) is not legal in a 1st gen frame even if it's using hte first gen heads and carbs
Average 1st gen SV makes low to maybe mid 70s hp wise with nohting special, 2nd gen makes about 5 more on average - use race gas, full exhaust, ignition advance (legal in ss) and a few other tricks and you might get a gen1 over 80hp if it's real fresh
For comparision sake Jared Herbig's bike dyno'd at like 61.4hp up here at a Blackhawk Track day a month or so ago - gen1 sv650 - so there can be quite a bit of variance on the sv's
My 1st gen SV on pump gas, M4 pipe and jet kit made 68.4HP. If a 1st Gen SV is motoring a Duc 1000 something is definitely going on...
Exactly! My 10k stock SV has 55 Superflow or 65 Dynojet on Motocouse Dyno. 2nd gen intakes yielded nothing (I was told it was legal).Race fuel bumped me to 74.This is not competitive anymore in LWSS.At this point I have to spend 15k to build a superbike or buy a 1000.If I do build a Superbike there is still a big disadvantage in LWSB. I was faster in 2002 on my Motocourse Ducatis 750s they had 85 HP. The few wins I had the last 2 seasons was because I rode full tilt The SVs that are consistently competitive are tweaked.
Quote from: racer880 on October 20, 2010, 04:38:31 PM
Exactly! My 10k stock SV has 55 Superflow or 65 Dynojet on Motocouse Dyno. 2nd gen intakes yielded nothing (I was told it was legal).Race fuel bumped me to 74.This is not competitive anymore in LWSS.At this point I have to spend 15k to build a superbike or buy a 1000.If I do build a Superbike there is still a big disadvantage in LWSB. I was faster in 2002 on my Motocourse Ducatis 750s they had 85 HP. The few wins I had the last 2 seasons was because I rode full tilt The SVs that are consistently competitive are tweaked.
As an Amateur, your 74 HP SV is still competitive in LWSS with WERA. (I'm gonna beat this horse til it's a pile of bones, then I'm going to keep on beating it!) Also, 80% of the bikes in LWSB and F2 are SS bikes racing another class.
Quote from: MACOP1104 on October 20, 2010, 04:15:53 PM
My 1st gen SV on pump gas, M4 pipe and jet kit made 68.4HP. If a 1st Gen SV is motoring a Duc 1000 something is definitely going on...
Mine too! 68 HP on a stock 1st gen SV.
Great! except I have raced Expert since the early 80s. 74 HP is tough in Florida. Although I have been running in the front this season.
Quote from: racer880 on October 20, 2010, 05:56:03 PM
Great! except I have raced Expert since the early 80s. 74 HP is tough in Florida. Although I have been running in the front this season.
oh sorry! Even as an Expert, you only have to deal with 2nd gen SVs and the odd Duc800. No air cooled 1000s!
No shite. The discussion was 1000s and Bimotas in LWSS
Tony that's in CCS. For WERA the SV will race against the Duc800 and not the 1000. The default quote will be, "then purchase a bike that you will be competitive with". I have heard that so many times and I guess that will always be true for CCS.
I like what Mike Perry has done for the Vintage stuff for CCS Florida. More participation was needed to bering the vintage racers back and hopefully there will be more racing for vintage next season. what Mike did was bring the rules in line with other bikes such as the FZR400 which allows more riders in.
I love these little FZR racers and plan to build another for next season. I will race it in Vintage and Ultralight. I wish the CCS rules would allow some leeway for the little FZR to 560cc to run in Ultralight and maybe give it a fighting chance against the SV, especially since most of the SV crowd is pushing the rules around for Ultralight.
In comparison the FZR400 is heavier than my Ducati 800 and also a recent SV that I weighed. The FZR certainly has less power to start with. Maybe the next rule change I will submit something for the fZR but I would guess I would be the only racer asking for it and would probably get me nowhere.
Majicmarker:
I agree, the little Fizzer needs a break, as well as the EX500 and the Hawk. ULWSB should be tailored for these bikes. The SV in this class should be held to SS rules.
Quote from: MACOP1104 on October 20, 2010, 10:57:31 PM
Majicmarker:
I agree, the little Fizzer needs a break, as well as the EX500 and the Hawk. ULWSB should be tailored for these bikes. The SV in this class should be held to SS rules.
The SV's in SS need to be held to SS rules....
Quote from: scubabill on October 20, 2010, 11:19:07 PM
The SV's in SS need to be held to SS rules....
lol. i agree!
FZR is a great bike for sure.We use to get,in 1988,I believe 75 or more HP from a built one. In 87 we ran the EX with had 55 HP stock , 70 built, in the National Endurance series.In 88 switched to the FZR for the series including the 24 Hr at Nelson. In 91 we installed a fully built 600 in that chassis that had 100 HP, that was a fun bike.I thought it weighed allot less than you report.
That's funny Bill.
Tony- The FZR is much heavier than you think. The stock FZR fork compared to the R1 fork that I used is actually 1 pound heavier- I did use the Attack triple clamps with the R1 forks. My son's FZR produces 59.8hp from a stock motor, jet kit and full hindle pipe. I am sure 75hp is achievable but that will only hold up against a stock SV at best. The FZR is still heavier than my Ducati 800 which is heavier than the SV. I wish I had the FZR to weigh on the scales this past weekend.
Of course the FZR600 motor would be a direct boost of power and I do get 106 out of my 630cc motor. That isn't legal in the CCS classes except for GP but then I would be relagated to running middleweight GP.
My 1988 FZR 400 is 20 LBS more then my 1999 SV 650.Doesnt matter how hard I try, my SV has only 12 more hp,but is always 4-6 sec a lap faster.The best i got it to was 3 sec difference between both bikes.
But Mark E. it sure would be fun to ride that 22 y/o FZR right on the tail of some of those SV guys. A 560 motor may just do the trick. Parts are becoming hard to find and maybe there will be some concessions made to the old dog such as allowing the FZR600 cases.
My former teammate still has my 91/92 season, 400/600 AMA National GTU 3hr bike,up north.It has a fully built 100HP motor W/ flat slides ,1000 front end and wheels and brakes,Cal Fab swingarm. It is like a mini OWO1.All this talk makes me want to fetch it.
Please do. If you race you would be protested but what fun it would be anyway
who was the guy in the southeast in 97-99 had an FZR400 and refused a teardown on a protest? I guess it was a 600 motor...
The funny thing is the 600 motor is easy to spot. It is the iterations between the 400-600 that becomes more difficult to know.
My thought is for the current crop of bikes, if you must protest an FZR400 you must be doing something wrong with your own bike. If you were to lighten everything you might get to 300#. 90hp could be achievable from a 560 motored FZR but at the expense of reliability.
How about that Bimota Charlie is using in LWSS. Dosnt seem that should be legal. I know it slips under the rules but it does not seem like a production bike with those fancy components.After all is this not for stock entry level equipment.
Yeah the Bimota is a killer machine but you are racing against it with a $6K SV or in Duane's case an $11K SV. Duane did give Charlie a little push at the ROC as would many others could have. Turns out Charlie moves pretty good on his SV that he rides in Ultralight (i'm sure it ain't stock).
At $32K for the Bimota it had better have all the trick parts and it is pretty light to boot. Now if only Suzuki would build an SV that would match the Bimota. Ed Key has.
The BWM Boxer R1200S is allowed in supersport!! No one said anything about that bike. With a good rider there would be no one to catch up to that bike.110hp and 80tq and that is stock,it is more heavy then the other bikes,and it takes time on learning how to ride it.
Quote from: apriliaman on October 26, 2010, 07:24:28 PM
The BWM Boxer R1200S is allowed in supersport!! No one said anything about that bike. With a good rider there would be no one to catch up to that bike.110hp and 80tq and that is stock,it is more heavy then the other bikes,and it takes time on learning how to ride it.
My opinion is that anybody that can get the Boxer set up and can then ride that overwieght shaft drive pig around a racetrack quickly would deserve to win. Seriously - I have seen a couple of these come to the track over the years and it always seems like there are lots of struggle with set up. Lets not even talk about availability of spares if you crash or have a mechanical. Other than Nate & his Moto ST team mates (who came to the track with a full semi of spare parts and full time mechanics) I don't think I have ever seen anybody else ride one with much success, even at a track like Road America (with veeerrrry llloooooonnnngg straights).
Nobody ever said racing in any form would be cheap, nor is it easy.
George
I may be mistaken but I thought the 1200 was not legal for the Lightweight SS stuff but there may be an 800. The 2009 ROC at Daytona saw Fernando on the sport classic line up against a BMW800. Don't remember who was riding the BMW but I think he won.
Mark
I don't think the Bimotas are making 100hp in SS trim. I know Kat's Bimota is making big HP because she pulled me by 5 bike lengths on the front strait at the ROC, and my bike makes close to 100hp with lots if work done to it.
I race in all of the lightweight classes except SS and UL.
I don't know about SS but I am happy to have as many bikesin the lightweight classes as possible. The Thunderbike grids this year were way to small.
At ROC my bike weighed in at 365 lbs with about 1 gal of fuel, and it makes just under 100hp. For most of the year it made in the high eighties at the rear wheel. The funny thing is that with the extra HP I only went a couple of 10ths faster at my local tracks. I think that within 10 HP more depends on the rider and the setup than the HP.
hey peter your bike is 40lbs lighter then mine and we have the same bike!!! Time for me to put mine on a diet if i got any extra $$ next year.I may take 10 lbs off this winter but that is about it for now.
Peter- You are right about a stock Bimota not making 100hp but a supersport spec Bimota could make close to it. A high flow crankcase breather is said to produce 1hp. specific race fuels might add another 2. The biggest gains seem to come from air inlet to the Ducati motors and the Bimotas are already better than any DS or SS.
Mark E.- you can lose 9 pounds from the fuel tank alone.
My Duc 800 weighed in at 365# with 2 gallons of fuel.
Was the 998 bike that beautiful black Duc? The one Barret rode? Its a 800 correct? Single sided swingarm. If so I had a fully built 780 it only made 86 HP, so thats quite a fast one. I would like to hear more details on that bike as it was really nice.
So now with CCS I have to buy an expensive bike and get it built to be competitive in lightweight. That's great, pretty much goes against the spirit of the lieghtweight classes. It would be cheaper to race middleweight when you fator in the price of the bike. I guess I'll spend the majority of my time with WERA in 2011.
You are definitely right about you racing WERA if you choose. I guess you could be right for many others with the same mindset, and I can only conclude that guys with money don't mind racing CCS.
I often wonder about the term, "being compeitive" and I guess it means racing for the win. There are many that race just to race even though a race win is not a probability. I have raced my FZR400 in GT lights with the knowledge that I have no chance at the win. But those races often times are the most fun with nothing to lose. In one of those events I actually got the holeshot in the rain when everyone else was tip toeing around. I led for a couple turns of the race until the bigger bikes blasted past on the straight.
Certainly racing middleweight could be cheaper in some respects but it can also be more in others.
For me racing lightweight offers me the chance to mix it up with what I call "gentlemen racers". Mostly they aren't out there to take you out but instead to have some good old fashion competitive fun. it is a place where a new racer can get his/her feet wet with less chance of an overabundance of power.
I agree. The 600 (aka meatgrinder) class is not what I'm looking for. I certainly enjoy the friendlier aspects of the lightweights since my over 40 year old bones don't heal as quickly as young bones!
I do have a pretty stout SV SBK with HP in the upper 80s but that's not going to cut it at Daytona in the fall.
Will a 100 hp motor like Ed Key uses work?
This is a response to Racer880
Actually, the 998 bike was not ridden by Barrett, but yes it is the beautiful #998 black Ducati with the 998 single sided swingarm.
It is a 1080 DS motor with stock hypermotard pistons and cylinders. The crank has been polished, fared and balanced , it has carillo titanium rods, the heads were done by Bruce Meyers, and it has magnesium engine covers. It is a faily low compression engine about 13:1 and I run 93 Octaine pump gas It also has brembo 4 pad calipers. I run a stock ohlins 998 shock, and the forks were don by thermosman. The frame was modified to fit the linkage for the 998 shock, but I have cracked it 2 times this year. The frame has been cut and an aluminum sub fitted. I will need to reinforce that area for next year. I have Marchesini mags on it. The single sided swing arm solves the slow turn in issues of the SS. Tank that is on the bike is an endurance tank and has extra capacity that I never use. I am looking for a lightweight tank that dosen't cost $1300. I love the bike and is has proven very competitive this year.
I enjoy racing in the light weight class because It is very clean compared to middleweight, but at the same time I am there to win not just to participate.
Mark your bike might heavier, but you are definitely much lighter than me LOL.
Quote from: majicMARKer on October 29, 2010, 08:33:46 PM
Will a 100 hp motor like Ed Key uses work?
I'm a cheap SV rider. I can't afford a 100HP SV motor. If I wanted to race 100HP bikes I'd buy a 600.
Wow, Nice bike. I thought they were the same bike. What was the bike Barret rode ? that was nice also, and fast. I hear you MACOP. Iam in the same boat.Looks like I have to change my program next season. I hate getting motored .
I hear ya. I have enjoyed racing my Duc 800 against the likes of the big Ducati or Bimota. Yes I do get "motored" on the strights especially at PBIR but it has been rewarding to close the gap in the braking sections. I just don't want to get in the way of the faster guys and I don't think I have.
It was also fun racing/riding Marc Miller's "ebay Ducati 748" and give a rider or two some fits. I would like to try Marc's "clunker" 900(his words) against some of those Bimotas and it might just give them a run for the money.
You ready marc? I'm tired of all the bimota shint. Ill put the good 900 motor back together and grind on the heads some more and see what we. Can do.
Let's throw it on the dyno before our outing.