Mat Mladin won't race at HPT this weekend.
This happening as the Track continued to move walls Thursday evening to open up the Alpha runoff area.
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=37533 (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=37533)
Hmmm.... funny how CCS riders can complain about it but nothing happens. Until.....
Quote from: r1owner on July 30, 2009, 11:43:13 PM
Hmmm.... funny how CCS riders can complain about it but nothing happens. Until.....
Still didn't fix the real issues that have been known for years. Hacking has left also, so the rumor goes.
I'm just glad to see someone, especially someone with as much on the line as he has, to stand up and say "it's not worth it"... Placing his LIFE above points, money, etc...
Quote from: Super Dave on July 31, 2009, 03:54:27 PM
Still didn't fix the real issues that have been known for years. Hacking has left also, so the rumor goes.
I hear ya. I remember sitting in (I'm pretty sure it was my first race weekend --- Gateway years ago) and someone (I think it was you) saying they should move the haybales/airfence outta the chicane onto the front straight down towards turn 1 in the riders meeting....nothing was done, and sure enough someone slid right into the wall just past the end of the "protection" towards turn 1.... :(
Quote from: r1owner on July 31, 2009, 06:06:32 PM
I hear ya. I remember sitting in (I'm pretty sure it was my first race weekend --- Gateway years ago) and someone (I think it was you) saying they should move the haybales/airfence outta the chicane onto the front straight down towards turn 1 in the riders meeting....nothing was done, and sure enough someone slid right into the wall just past the end of the "protection" towards turn 1.... :(
Yeah, that collected one of the Wasco brothers that weekend? Unfortunately, if you're around long enough, you witness things.
Mid-Ohio always had a problem with the last corner. I watched Larry Schwartzbach get killed there in 1992. Gordy can talk about his dear son too and the issue at Road Atlanta. He's missed as are all the racers that have passed while on track.
and the AMA dont care that mat isnt going to race
Next thing you'll hear is that they(Pro's) want the dragstrip wall removed after T14...
Quote from: Noidly1 on July 31, 2009, 08:35:01 PM
Next thing you'll hear is that they(Pro's) want the dragstrip wall removed after T14...
So, are you saying that Mladin's claims are unfounded?
Quote from: Garywc on July 31, 2009, 06:41:08 PM
and the AMA dont care that mat isnt going to race
DMG...DMG...DMG. But I understand your point! Tdub
Quote from: Tdub on August 01, 2009, 12:02:55 AM
So, are you saying that Mladin's claims are unfounded?
Your thought, not mine.
I'm basicly saying that, HPT is what it is. Yes it can use some tweeking, Just like any other track.
It was designed for drag racing first, the road coarse came later.
They are probably used to closed coarse only tracks and may not like multi-purpose facilities that we are used to.
Racing is inherintly risky, Duh... As racers, we either accept the risks or we don't race.
By in large, The successful session per-capita > insident ratio at HPT, like most tracks, is pretty high.
So, All I can say to Mat is... Chick Chick C H I C k E N :wah: :biggrin:
I remember when Foggarty sniveled about Daytona, it's a scary place.
I raced a Florida Grand Prix Riders endurance race in Hollywood Florida in the 80's.
It was a drag strip with road course on the return road and through the parking lot, worst make do track ever, dodging holes and rises in the aspalt.
I said I wasn't going race it, but was 3rd. in points and did it without incident, just turned it down a notch and collected points.
I can certainly understand pulling out if you think it's unsafe, funny how Mladin can't just pull out without another jab at the AMA and DMG.
Quote from: Noidly1 on August 01, 2009, 12:25:38 AM
It was designed for drag racing first, the road coarse came later.
No. Paul Newman and a bunch of other guys that were part of the car road racing scene were the visionaries that wanted a road course in the center of the US. However, it was logical to have it be a multipurpose facility.
Course
Quote from: Noidly1 on August 01, 2009, 12:25:38 AM
So, All I can say to Mat is... Chick Chick C H I C k E N :wah: :biggrin:
:err: wow....just wow.
and I think my high school students make ignorant statements.
Quote from: Noidly1 on August 01, 2009, 12:25:38 AM
So, All I can say to Mat is... Chick Chick C H I C k E N :wah: :biggrin:
There's an opening at Yosh. Apply for Mat's job. Keep us updated on your progress.
Yes, the track "is what it is", but so are the street courses of Europe. Not everybody can accept the level of risk associated with a given track/location/event, and I commend those that actually have balls enough to say "not worth it" and sit it out.
Dunno... Maybe it's just me, having been on the other end of the phone from sobbing wives/parents/children/friends who have had some serious regrets over a dangerous situation... To each his own.
malidan is the one riding at 100% on a 100% motorcycle maybe he's complained quietly and no one has listened so he's at a point in he's career where you don't bounce back from injury so if there is a risk and he does think it's manageable why shouldn't he sit it out. did it not take duhamel's serious and basicily career ending injury to change parts of road atlanta . the track does not want bad press . if super dave gets killed oh well if mat gets killed it will be on wind tunnel. i think everyone who races there should thank him . and in a way the track should thank him . maybe things will get fixed now . there is a reason we don't ride around hollywood anymore (besides red buttons )it was a P.O.S. if i was a track owner i would want someone like mat to tell me whats wrong and what i need to fix . insead of hoping everyweekend no one gets killed and their family sues the crap out of me ( like at moroso). now if they don't address the problems that matt points out and a few weeks from now someone gets killed or seriouslly injured what is the family lawyer going to say? yes this is a dangerous sport but can it be safer and is there negligence for not fixing it.
Quote from: Ducmarc on August 01, 2009, 02:39:02 PM
and is there negligence for not fixing it.
I don't think you''re going to get anywhere with negligence.... You see the walls... you either decide to race or not.... negligence is when there's like a 25 foot deep hole right after turn1 in the middle of the track and they cover it up with a tarp and forget to tell you. ;)
But in essence, I agree with you completely... I don't understand why it takes so much effort to get a front end loader out and move some concrete barriers, dig some dirt and throw gravel in it. Seriously.
I'll say about negligence I'm not a lawyer and do not have a high opinion of most of them but they are everywhere and are always hungry.
if you have a professional multiple championship racer say that wall is too close and they don't move it and the next week someone hits it and gets killed look who the expert witness is. just ask your wife mother father or sister would you sue on your behalf cuz you hit the same wall that the Matt says should be moved and wasn't. Yes the hole covered is negligence but the inability to act on an issue is negligence also. i wish i could find the details of a lawsuit brought against moroso and several people on the food chain a few years ago . but someones insurance finally settled.in that instance the rider was hit and killed a another rider after crashing still everyone was sued.
did a little research and found that racer Aurther Wagner sued and won against SFX for a crash at HPT during an SFX race in 03. he won $1.5 milion after hitting a wall. seems strange the they won against the promotor and not the track. they also stated that had it not been a jury trial he would not have won that was in RRW 2-13-08. so they have been sued at least once and still don't listen .
Ahhh... Feeling the love.
Quote from: Super Dave on August 01, 2009, 08:17:28 AM
No. Paul Newman and a bunch of other guys that were part of the car road racing scene were the visionaries that wanted a road course in the center of the US. However, it was logical to have it be a multipurpose facility.
Course
Well, by judging the layout and Google Earth pics from back in '91, I thought it was drag first.
Either way, any facility that has both types of tracks on top of each other, will have problems.
I understand everyones concerns and yes there have been some really bad crashes. Things can be corrected.
If these tracks are so bad, then why does CCS, WERA, and others, hold events at these places?
Also, if they are so bad then why do all the people go to them, even on track days, in the first place?
Are we that stupid or just lucky?
Just wondering, How many tracks are there in the U.S. that Don't have problems?
Most of the cheapskate owners of these car tracks are not willing to pay up to make the improvements that it takes to make them motorcycle safe.
Laguna Seca had Yamaha help to make improvements to meet FIM standards.
Miller spent lots of money but got it right.
Europe has some nice tracks where no complaints are heard.
Jennings is deluxe, but had a tree problem.
If I had the money I'd build one and do it right.
$
i understand nothings perfect but the safer tracks would not have any walls lots of flat runoff . i don't know if anyone has explored rider safety and track layout as their college thesis. (maybe i will since I'm too crippled to be a mechanic anymore) but I'm wondering if there is any statistical difference between like homestead with all it's walls lack of runoff and transitions from oval to road course and say Jennings lay ed out for motorcycles by motorcyclist. I've crashed at Jennings by far more times than anywhere else worse than anywhere else (but I lived also) it maybe if you feel safe you ride harder than if you didn't. I've never ridden at 100% at homestead and at daytona . I think there was a kind of spook factor that i did not get at Jennings moroso CMP or roebling
Quote from: tug296 on August 01, 2009, 08:10:10 PM
Most of the cheapskate owners of these car tracks are not willing to pay up to make the improvements that it takes to make them motorcycle safe.
Well, let's put that idea to rest.
Track cars and race cars are expensive. Often, more expensive than a couple of top flight AMA Supersport bikes. And when walls and ditches are put in place, they cause a lot of damage to those more expensive vehicles.
On the one project we worked on, it was quite simple. The client wanted motorcycle standards as by fulfilling something that keeps motorcyclist safe and financially better off, their car clients would be better off too. What's generally dumb for bikes is still dumb for cars.
What I'm finding troubling is that on some boards, there's little support for the very real aspect of track safety. Seems like things have gone completely backwards anymore in regards to the ideology that got things changed in the past.
having never raced at HPT I not a good one to judge. but watching the races on the tube it looks like it has a fair amount of runoff in most places. so would it take that much more to make most riders happy? i know riders happy? but no one complains about homestead or that turn at VIR where eveyone drops away and you turn right at the bottom I know everyone likes it but it shure was unnerveing for me.I gess if it was too safe it would be boring and would lack any memory good or bad.and that's what we are wanting anyway. dave your right about the attitude just watch TV thrillbilles nitro circus and scars. it's not how fast and far but how bad you broken I do know these guys are all tough untill there loaded in the ambulance then they sound like the rest of us.
Mladin wanted a way out, if Mid-ohio is any indication of how this weekend would have gone. A track that he is not familiar with, in an era of superbike that is much more competitive, this "issue" was his ticket out of a potentially embarrassing weekend. IMO he folded, he should be ashamed. He let his team, his fans, and his sponsors down. BOOOOO!!!
Well, he's not going out on a high note, but I sure saw a lot of white walls around there.
Quote from: GIGOLO on August 02, 2009, 07:44:38 PMin an era of superbike that is much more competitive...
How? He was capable of not even competing in two events in a series that has generally two points paying races per event and still has a huge lead. It's an interesting year, but he's still far and away crushing.
Eslick didn't seem to mind those walls.
Quote from: skiandclimb on August 03, 2009, 01:39:14 AM
Eslick didn't seem to mind those walls.
Someone has to win eventually. Where's Scott Greenwood?
Quote from: skiandclimb on August 03, 2009, 01:39:14 AM
Eslick didn't seem to mind those walls.
Quote from: Super Dave on August 02, 2009, 11:48:16 PM
How? He was capable of not even competing in two events in a series that has generally two points paying races per event and still has a huge lead. It's an interesting year, but he's still far and away crushing.
I'm with you on this one Dave. I did gather a fair bit of respect for Mr Mladin after the announcement and giving credit to many others for such as successful career.
Mark
Quote from: skiandclimb on August 03, 2009, 01:39:14 AM
Eslick didn't seem to mind those walls.
From my point of view as a spectator it just seems as though you are right, but he isn't the one that will be in the wall but more the competitor he is racing against pushing his way into corners and making not so clean passes. I wonder who would be at fault if the other competitor continued his turn in and took them both out. Rossi'esque passes and Rossi gets a bad shout.
I know the response "rubbing is racing", "if you can't hang with the big dogs" but don't judge a person as being less of a man for not racing. Me at the end of my fire career won't be taking the risks as I did as a youngin. I am slower and more methodical now. I am not gonna do 25 years just to bite the dust in the last year.
Mark
Quote from: skiandclimb on August 03, 2009, 01:39:14 AM
Eslick didn't seem to mind those walls.
Good thing he had the front straight.....
Like at Road America??
No wait, Peris and Cardenes won the DSB races that weekend. Even with the long straights.
I haven't heard that arguement before, that the Buell's have an advantage on the straights............. :banghead:
Quote from: Dr675 on August 03, 2009, 03:28:30 PM
Like at Road America??
No wait, Peris and Cardenes won the DSB races that weekend. Even with the long straights.
I haven't heard that arguement before, that the Buell's have an advantage on the straights............. :banghead:
beats me---wasn't arguing or looking for one.....just seemed like Cardenas would catch/get around Eslick in the tight stuff and unless Cardenas was multiple lengths ahead the Buell would run him back down on the front straight...in race #1 that is...didn't see #2.
relax.....
Quote from: backMARKr on August 03, 2009, 04:04:48 PM
beats me---wasn't arguing or looking for one.....just seemed like Cardenas would catch/get around Eslick in the tight stuff and unless Cardenas was multiple lengths ahead the Buell would run him back down on the front straight...in race #1 that is...didn't see #2.
relax.....
pssst, mark... watch race number 2... specifically the last handful of laps
Quote from: tstruyk on August 03, 2009, 04:24:53 PM
pssst, mark... watch race number 2... specifically the last handful of laps
I am guessing the lil Columbian won that one???
Hey Mark,
Wanna borrow some of my blood pressure pills?
:biggrin:
Wow what a topic!
I just noticed this thread and decided to see what has been said.
Why don't you Heartland Park Track walls naysayers just ask Brian Hall what he thinks of those walls!
If you do a search in past forums on here you might be able to have seen this problem coming with the AMA.
So interesting that I said at the last CCS race there just 3 weekends prior that mark my words, "There is no way in hell Mat Mladin is racing here. I can't believe Josh Hayes approved this track to be safe." Those were my words and you can ask several CCS officials if I said that.
I don't care what anyone says if you understand racing at high speed and have a care for your health you will agree that the walls going up the front straight don't belong in motorcycle roadracing. The walls leading down the hill into turn 1 don't belong there either.
Yes we all have a choice to ride on that track that day because the series is trying to put on some races for us.
Let me ask any of you. Have you ever hit a solid object on the race track such as a wall?
Here let me make this easy for you, for all you racers who think racing in walls at Heartland Park is just fine with you, put your full race gear on and run as fast as you can and aim head first full blast and smash into a concete wall.
Math says you can only possibly run maybe at most 15mph in leathers. Now if 15 mph hurts try hitting one at say 40mph. Or 60mph. Here go run out in front of a car thats going 40mph with your full gear on. Bet you'll be F###ed up or dead.
Now if you want to go out and race at any track that has solid objects thats your choice and risk to take.
Mat Mladin, Jamie Hacking and another rider opted not to ride. I'm sure some of you think that those riders were pulling punches at the DMG for doing that. FYI!! It has nothing to do with the DMG. It has everything to do with risk they are not willing to take. Its their choice to make not yours. I don't understand how some can say comments about a persons manhood since they chose not to race at a track like that.
I can think on the top of my head of over 10 motorcycle racers that have died during my lifetime because they hit a wall. You know what? After each one of those casualites the track made changes to the track.
You don't need to tell me that I SHOULD wear a helmet when I ride a bike down a street. That's obvious. Just like Matt Mladin, Hacking and others don't need to tell me that I shouldn't race there if I want to live if I should happen to crash in that spot. That obvious too. Apparently those of you who call others chicken for not riding don't get it. Maybe they will get it if they hit the wall.
Imagine crashing and sliding along merily at 60mph totally fine and WHAMO!! Your dead because of a wall! Was it worth riding there then? I don't know about you but I'd like to live to race another day.
Quote from: Burt Munro on August 03, 2009, 04:59:30 PM
Hey Mark,
Wanna borrow some of my blood pressure pills?
:biggrin:
Rick...thanks for the offer....but fear not.....a total stranger's pokes won't raise the BP and have gotten used to Tim at this point :biggrin:
ultimately....just don't care.
see you at Gateway in few days...
M
Quote from: tug296 on August 01, 2009, 01:41:39 AM
I remember when Foggarty sniveled about Daytona, it's a scary place.
I raced a Florida Grand Prix Riders endurance race in Hollywood Florida in the 80's.
It was a drag strip with road course on the return road and through the parking lot, worst make do track ever, dodging holes and rises in the aspalt.
I said I wasn't going race it, but was 3rd. in points and did it without incident, just turned it down a notch and collected points.
I can certainly understand pulling out if you think it's unsafe, funny how Mladin can't just pull out without another jab at the AMA and DMG.
So you were there at Hollywood when Dwaine Williams ran the show?
I can't say I'm surprised at some of the comments, but at least most of us get it.
I might not like Mladin much, but you would have to be insane to not respect his accomplishments as a competitor. The man has been dominant on several types of machines. No doubt about his abilities.
I had the opportunity to ride a pretty tricked out 1098R superbike back to back with one of the AMA regulars and I learned a few things.
One is that unfortunately for me, data acquisition does not lie......but unless you've raced with these guys, you have no idea how hard they are pushing and how consistent they are. Even at a track day loaded with traffic of all skill levels, they are turning, braking, and opening the throttle with amazing consistency and speed.
The new AMA / DMG has made some changes. Whatever your opinion, they know how to market and promote racing. And that should be a good thing for all of us. They have done this by making some rule changes for more exciting racing. Arguably this has worked. The spec tires are, for the most part, crap.....but they're the same for everyone. The riders have complained, protested even. The DMG ruled with an iron fist (Jamie Hacking's suspension, for example). I understand DMG's position, you can't promise sponsors a race and then not be able to produce because the inmates are running the asylum, so to speak. Then again, this is motorcycle racing, not NASCAR, and it's far more dangerous.
So I think the riders are of the opinion that they're risking thier lives to put on a show and DMG is pulling the strings. For now, that's just the way it is. Crummy tires, dangerous track....at the end of the day, the riders are making thier point by sitting it out. It takes courage, in my opinion. Does Mat really have anything left to prove? No, so he's making his point.
Point taken, hats off to Mat and Jamie for sticking to thier principles.
Just my 2 cents, of course.
I understand and respect his decision, but it would have been more meaningful had he not put himself at odds with the promoter from day one on insignificant issues. Right now he just looks like a crybaby because he hasn't stopped bitching since March. The track has issues for sure, but how is Mladin helping fix anything?
He's basically drawn a line in the sand and divided his followers from those of motorcycle racing in general. He has the loudest voice and is the most influential rider in the paddock. He says he cares about the sport, but I don't see how racing in general can benefit from this.
Not saying he should have raced, but he could have respectfully withdrawn and stuck around for the autographs and PR. It would have given him a thousand opportunities to allow his voice to be heard. If he wanted to make a difference that would have been the way. He's a professional. Suzuki pays him to win races AND be an ambassador to the sport and their brand. If it was only about going fast, Anthony Gobert would still have a ride.
The thing that pisses me off most about the track is that Brian hit the wall outside alpha and was almost killed last year. Then he had to make his comeback on that same track and stare at that same wall every lap. Nothing was done after he was seriously injured, but the AMA guys bitch about it and there's equipment there the same night to move it. Just proves that profits mean more than lives.
I thought I would post my observations since I have raced at HPT this year with ASRA and I worked on the airfence crew as a volunteer for the AMA races this weekend. The wall on riders left in alpha has been removed and the ditch somewhat filled in. Where the wall continues into turn four, was covered with airfence, but more wall needs to be taken out of here. The dragstrip walls on riders left at exit of turn one were moved back about 60 feet and covered with airfence. Airfence was installed on the wall outside of the carousel. Airfence on the outside of turn four. Airfence on the exit of turn six. Airfence on the outside of turn seven. Airfence before the bridge at the exit of turn nine. The concrete barriers at the exit of turn ten were removed. Airfence on the outside of turn eleven. Airfence at the exit of twelve. Nine sections of airfence on the dragstrip wall at the exit of turn fourteen. The wall on riders right approaching alpha was moved back. There was a total of fifty sections of airfence in place in addition to the soft wall barriers that HPT uses. Ideally, I would like to see some more work done in the alpha/turn one area and some gravel traps installed in some areas. I think the track management did a pretty good job of getting the track race ready and I think that most of the ama guys that raced this weekend share the same opinion.
Dave,
Did they do anything with that connecting wall about 1/3 of the way down the front straight on riders right where it narrows down to form the front straight? Last time I was there it was a perpendicular wall ( to the front straight ) with air fence on it. Curious if they made that more of a diagonal wall. I always thought that could be a problem.
I believe that was about where the airfence ended and there were soft barriers stacked out in front of it. It was covered well enough that it seemed to be a non issue.
Quote from: JBraun on August 04, 2009, 11:06:06 AM
The thing that pisses me off most about the track is that Brian hit the wall outside alpha and was almost killed last year. Then he had to make his comeback on that same track and stare at that same wall every lap. Nothing was done after he was seriously injured, but the AMA guys bitch about it and there's equipment there the same night to move it. Just proves that profits mean more than lives.
I think you have answered your own post right here. Yes, some of the parties involved are interested in profits more than our safety. The only way to reach those parties is to reduce their profitablity. By not staying around Mat will certainly have had an influence on attendance even if only a small one. The shut up and ride or cry-baby attitude will never have any effect on profits so is a useless approach (this is not directed at you).
I have not followed the political aspect of the series so while your views of Mat's conduct thus far this season may be spot on I cannot address any of that. I can however say that I personally have nothing but respect for any racer who can walk away from a situation he or she feels is unsafe rather than bend to the powers that be.
Quote from: JBraun on August 04, 2009, 11:06:06 AM
I understand and respect his decision, but it would have been more meaningful had he not put himself at odds with the promoter from day one on insignificant issues. Right now he just looks like a crybaby because he hasn't stopped bitching since March. The track has issues for sure, but how is Mladin helping fix anything?
Mladin accomplished more with his move than others with nearly as much sway have accomplished in the past 2 or 3 years at some of the biggest tracks in the country. The track immediatly busted out the heavy equipment and tried to make some things better. Your post is also wrong about the wall in T1. The track moved it before the event.
Quote from: JBraun on August 04, 2009, 11:06:06 AM
I understand and respect his decision, but it would have been more meaningful had he not put himself at odds with the promoter from day one on insignificant issues. Right now he just looks like a crybaby because he hasn't stopped bitching since March. The track has issues for sure, but how is Mladin helping fix anything?
He's basically drawn a line in the sand and divided his followers from those of motorcycle racing in general. He has the loudest voice and is the most influential rider in the paddock. He says he cares about the sport, but I don't see how racing in general can benefit from this.
Not saying he should have raced, but he could have respectfully withdrawn and stuck around for the autographs and PR. It would have given him a thousand opportunities to allow his voice to be heard. If he wanted to make a difference that would have been the way. He's a professional. Suzuki pays him to win races AND be an ambassador to the sport and their brand. If it was only about going fast, Anthony Gobert would still have a ride.
You make an excellent point here, but let's not forget that Jamie Hacking was suspended for badmouthing the series about various issues so I don't think that was an option for Mat. I think he did the best thing for the sport and for himself.
Quote from: Gino230 on August 04, 2009, 04:52:41 PM
You make an excellent point here, but let's not forget that Jamie Hacking was suspended for badmouthing the series about various issues so I don't think that was an option for Mat. I think he did the best thing for the sport and for himself.
Man oh man, there are not a lot of facts in this thread. Jamie was not "suspended" (for 24 hours) for bad mouthing anyone. He was "suspended" for his language used exiting the press room and outside of it.
I don't keep up with all the politics between racers and DMG/AMA or anyone else.
I just go race and hopefully have fun. That is all I care about.
When I was sayin Mat was Chicken, before most of this thread, I was thinking about;
"Why is it so bad?, Mr. Rosno, Ben, M.Hall and all the other Greats I know of race there".
So if it's safe enough for them, it's safe enough for me.
Hell, Look at Gateway and all those that have raced there.
That place collects a lot of people yet we keep comming back.
Is it Stupidity, Luck or what?
I call it Respect... Respect for the track.
Ride like an idiot, get yourself or someone else collected.
That goes for any track.
Before anyone says anything about what needs to be done or has been done at any track, after this post,
this post is about you and what tracks you ride at and not sitting out.
I do believe, if I am not mistaken, Mr. Rosno has crashed at Gateway and totalled his bike on the track day before the CCS round.
Will he be back? I doubt it. And I can't blame him. The track IS dangerous.
I will most likely never ride as fast as the fast guys pushing things to the limit.
Therefore the danger factor is a bit lessened for me. And yes, I can still get hurt or even killed.
I ride with respect for the track and limit myself to my own abilities and try to have fun and not get hurt or hurt anyone else.
Flame on...
I bet dollars to donuts that Dave disagree's... but I'll let him handle that one if he chooses.
FYI, he crashed at the entrance to 9... no walls, no hard stuff to hit.
He's crashed in T1 and GIR and found the wall a few years back. Didnt stop him from racing there.
I think some have tatooed it numberous times... Its their call to ride or not to ride. Period
How many years did you choose not to race? does that make chicken? Or at some point did you decide not to race when you could have?
I bought a house. No $. 12 Years, Got the itch again and decided to scratch...
So you made a personal choice to not race, and buy a house for you and/or your family. you decided not to race based on what you felt was the right thing to do.
I dont see any difference.
Ultimately its his call. I dont agree with the way it was handled (3 laps???) but i cant judge him for his decision.
see ya at GIR noid! The R6 is back up and running! :cheers:
Yes, It was a personal choice. Not about any track though...
You have an R6? Aww shit... :banghead: :biggrin:
Quote from: tstruyk on August 04, 2009, 10:30:18 PM
see ya at GIR noid! The R6 is back up and running! :cheers:
yes...yes it is..... :biggrin:
it throws FLAMES!!! :ahhh:
Quote from: Noidly1 on August 04, 2009, 10:44:31 PM
Yes, It was a personal choice. Not about any track though...
You have an R6? Aww shit... :banghead: :biggrin:
He's had an 06 R6 pretty much before anyone in STL had one.... LOL!
All I've ever seen him on was an SV.
Never saw him in any race I was in.
Quote from: Noidly1 on August 04, 2009, 11:17:37 PM
All I've ever seen him on was an SV.
Spun a rod bearing pretty much right outta the box... I think it has like 500 miles on it.
make sure you put gas in it timmay :thumb:
Sorry, stuck on the boat for a few days.
Yes, a proud FGPRA member from 1981 or so, then went AMACCS racing the first year with Roger Edmondson.
Fortunate to have known Dwain and raced with him and his beloved Norton many times.
As I recall, at a riders meeting, he explained the problems with the Hollywood track and we took a vote, it was a racetrack and we all showed up.
Tough to do the Endurance there.
Sounds like you may have known Dwain as well?
Dwain Williams, Always A Champion.
RIP.
Quote from: skidMARK on August 03, 2009, 09:27:33 PM
So you were there at Hollywood when Dwaine Williams ran the show?
Quote from: r1owner on August 04, 2009, 11:15:13 PM
He's had an 06 R6 pretty much before anyone in STL had one.... LOL!
that aint no lie! I had to go to Springfield to get it....
Quote from: gonecrazy on August 04, 2009, 11:30:48 PM
make sure you put gas in it timmay :thumb:
Ive never run outta gas... (knocks on wood)
Quote from: Noidly1 on August 04, 2009, 11:17:37 PM
Never saw him in any race I was in.
Even if I ran the SV you wouldnt see me... well maybe a turn or 2... :biggrin:
Quote from: backMARKr on August 04, 2009, 11:11:24 PM
yes...yes it is..... :biggrin:
it throws FLAMES!!! :ahhh:
Helps break up the draft! :ahhh:
yeah its been a LOOOOONG time down (early 07) been focusing on the SV for Mark and Kyle since 08.
Quote from: benprobst on August 04, 2009, 04:09:33 PM
Your post is also wrong about the wall in T1. The track moved it before the event.
Which event? ASRA or AMA? I wasn't there for the ASRA weekend, but I thought the wall was still there.
They had equipment out on thursday night moving that wall at the request of the riders. Am I wrong about that?
You obviously didn't read the whole post. Mladin absolutely made his point by boycotting the event, I don't have an issue with that. But he gets paid a shitload of money to represent Suzuki, not Mat Mladin. When he packed up and went home he put himself first. It wasn't about safety. if it was, there would have been a constructive way to accomplish much more than he did. He just wanted to steal the spotlight. Why else would he announce his retirement in the middle of a race weekend in which he's not even participating?
I've always been a Mladin guy, but this deal was really poor form.
Quote from: JBraun on August 05, 2009, 01:01:11 PMBut he gets paid a shitload of money to represent Suzuki, not Mat Mladin. When he packed up and went home he put himself first. It wasn't about safety. if it was, there would have been a constructive way to accomplish much more than he did
Well, don't push the cart with a rope.
Mat is a man with skills that a lot of others don't have. Suzuki and Yoshimura don't have him indentured into slavery. They have a contract with him. Doesn't allow Suzuki to impose a right for them to force him to kill himself or sacrifice himself for Suzuki. Certainly didn't get any bonus money for winning a race that weekend. And that is his choice.
What I'd really like to see is that tracks, organizations, and riders take track safety more seriously. So many still talking about this yet. That's a good thing. Does that steal a spot light?
Since we are talking about track safety, could we talk about BHF? 2 years that I have been racing there, I still have not seen any reason for the curbing on the outside of 4 and 6a. I have seen bikes get catapulted into the air at 4, as well as guys sliding along ok, then get injured when hitting the curb. I would honestly go and take it out myself with a guy for free, it would make me feel better going through there.
Quote from: GIGOLO on August 05, 2009, 03:32:02 PM
Since we are talking about track safety, could we talk about BHF? 2 years that I have been racing there, I still have not seen any reason for the curbing on the outside of 4 and 6a. I have seen bikes get catapulted into the air at 4, as well as guys sliding along ok, then get injured when hitting the curb. I would honestly go and take it out myself with a guy for free, it would make me feel better going through there. Yeah for sure but I was told their there for cars to slow them down because of lack of run-off,that's why they have high curbing.Imagine in all the curbing there was flat.By the way,in the CCS riders meeting,there was mention that the owner bought the adjacent land to south and west,with plans to expand the track anywhere from 2.5 to 4 k mi.!!
Quote from: tstruyk on August 05, 2009, 01:15:54 AM
that aint no lie! I had to go to Springfield to get it....
Ive never run outta gas... (knocks on wood)
Even if I ran the SV you wouldnt see me... well maybe a turn or 2... :biggrin:
Helps break up the draft! :ahhh:
yeah its been a LOOOOONG time down (early 07) been focusing on the SV for Mark and Kyle since 08.
last hpt i rememmber a certain bald guy pushing the sv in question down hot pit and that certain bald guy saying" I ran out of gas"
Quote from: Super Dave on August 05, 2009, 01:31:34 PM
Well, don't push the cart with a rope.
Mat is a man with skills that a lot of others don't have. Suzuki and Yoshimura don't have him indentured into slavery. They have a contract with him. Doesn't allow Suzuki to impose a right for them to force him to kill himself or sacrifice himself for Suzuki. Certainly didn't get any bonus money for winning a race that weekend. And that is his choice.
What I'd really like to see is that tracks, organizations, and riders take track safety more seriously. So many still talking about this yet. That's a good thing. Does that steal a spot light?
Dave, read again. I NEVER SAID HE SHOULD RIDE! He has every right to sit out. I'm all for that! I don't think HPT is that bad, but I've never seen it from a 1:36 and I'm sure it looks a LOT different. His choice and I respect that.
Mat and every other pro has a list of obligations to their team each weekend. They are employees. Riding on a track that you don't feel is safe is NOT one of those obligations, but signing autographs and kissing babies and doing interviews is. If Mat genuinely wanted to make a difference, he could have been at the track, in front of the cameras, making his point for the world to hear. But he took his ball and went home.
THEN he announced his retirement on friday in a fit of spite. If all this was in the name of making racing safer in America, then I guess I really missed the point.
Put it in perspective, I own a HVAC contracting company. If one of my employees is on a job, and doesn't feel that the he's safe in the aerial lift, then I'm not going to make him go up there. BUT, he's still expected to do the parts of the job that don't require going on the lift.
Push the cart with a rope??? What the fuck does that mean? :err:
Try pushing a cart with a rope. It will make sense. Or even a car.
Mladin didn't have a fit. He's really not an emotional guy. He's a cut throat, no emotional rationalist. He does things for reasons. I've worked with some teams in racing against him, and he's an incredibly tough cookie.
He's not a slave, still. He's a contractor.
Again, I do have to say that I am surprised by the emotional responses about Mladin for his decision that everyone agrees is his decision to make. Retirement is his decision. I cannot answer for his timing, but he's at the top, I suspect that he's irritated with the track safety issues of HPT and potentially NJ. I cannot answer for him, but one could easily speculate the timing if one wished.
There are certain aspects that I know about that I just won't comment about in their historical significance to this matter. It sucks. Lots of things shouldn't have happened along the way. Takes Mat Mladin making a personal decision for himself for people to talk. But rather than talk about actual standards, many have made this about Mat.
Quote from: gonecrazy on August 05, 2009, 06:09:45 PM
last hpt i rememmber a certain bald guy pushing the sv in question down hot pit and that certain bald guy saying" I ran out of gas"
I wish that was all that was wrong with it..... :banghead:
hey tug what was your # I've got a poster in the shop from the early 80's with everyones mug on it. even has Stan and his wife on it man that was a long time ago i was a mechanic at Long's cycle then did not ride at the time. looking back i don't really know why guess i listened to my dad too much. sure sorry to see Dwayne go. he was a lot of fun at Jennings.next time I'm there I'm going to buy a fence stake around the park for him . that brings up another thing if you want to honor someone the daytona 200 memorial on the beach is real nice. would mind pooling some money to get Dwayne on there. the public gets to see it . you all come to daytona you need to visit. it's a pain in the ass to find but worth it. as far as malidin he's a made man and still could go anywhere ducati would give their eye teeth for him .maybe he's pressuring suzuki to go to Europe. only he knows his reasons.
Quote from: gonecrazy on August 05, 2009, 06:09:45 PM
last hpt i remember a certain bald guy pushing the sv in question down hot pit and that certain bald guy saying" I ran out of gas"
For some reason, MAM comes to mind. Sounds familiar.. Last year I think..
BIke had gas... we hoped a carb wasnt getting fuel but unfortunately it still had gas in it... I believe my exact response was "I think its outta gas"
At MAM we threw a chain going into 14... then I crashed Anthony's SS bike leading the shootout race by a minute.
Ducmarc,
My first # with FGPRA was 186, I raced a black and red Honda 900-F with black leathers and a red Arai helmet. Later had Cycle Accessories on front of my white and red leathers.
I did both FGPRA and CCS series for a few years, went through a few different numbers after 186,- 86, 155, 55,{thanks Roger Rieman, RIP}, 143, 43.
I saw Stan and Sherry at Riding Into History Bike Show at World Golf Village a few months ago, I raced against Stan's wife Sherry on her Moto Guzzi a bunch, she and that thing were fast.
Also Stan Keys, he raced a Norton way back then with Dwaine, he set a new world record at Bonneville this year on a old Honda CX-500, heavily modified of coarse, but a cool thing.
We have been to the Daytona 200 Wall many times, it was being worked on earlier this year, we stay at Ocean Walk , it's in back of the next hotel south, definitely a cool thing and a must see for any motorcycle road race enthusiast.
Quote from: Ducmarc on August 05, 2009, 10:18:21 PM
hey tug what was your # I've got a poster in the shop from the early 80's with everyones mug on it. even has Stan and his wife on it man that was a long time ago i was a mechanic at Long's cycle then did not ride at the time. looking back i don't really know why guess i listened to my dad too much. sure sorry to see Dwayne go. he was a lot of fun at Jennings.next time I'm there I'm going to buy a fence stake around the park for him . that brings up another thing if you want to honor someone the daytona 200 memorial on the beach is real nice. would mind pooling some money to get Dwayne on there. the public gets to see it . you all come to daytona you need to visit. it's a pain in the ass to find but worth it. as far as malidin he's a made man and still could go anywhere ducati would give their eye teeth for him .maybe he's pressuring suzuki to go to Europe. only he knows his reasons.
wasn't sherry the only woman to win an ama race? could not remember the hotel it was behind took us 3 shots to find it thought it was the adams mark unless thats what it used to be called did not want to tell anybody wrong thanks
I think your right, like a battle of the Twins at Daytona or somewhere?
Not sure the name of the motel, only saw it from the beach side, but it was yellow in March.
I haven't seen it mentioned yet but did anyone notice that Mladin's departure might have saved Josh Herrin's ass? After he complained, they removed the wall between 1 and 2 that would have been right in the area where Herrin ran off at triple digit speed trying to pass Eslick.
On the one hand, I think Mladin should have offered more help before the round because they did seem willing to make changes, but it also seemed like they made some big changes right after he left so maybe it was for the best.
Quote from: R1Racer99 on August 07, 2009, 04:58:35 PM
I haven't seen it mentioned yet but did anyone notice that Mladin's departure might have saved Josh Herrin's ass? After he complained, they removed the wall between 1 and 2 that would have been right in the area where Herrin ran off at triple digit speed trying to pass Eslick.
On the one hand, I think Mladin should have offered more help before the round because they did seem willing to make changes, but it also seemed like they made some big changes right after he left so maybe it was for the best.
I think he did mention some safety hazards before the season ever started, if I remember correctly.
He also had the chance to stop there a week ahead of time but declined because he said they wouldn't be able to change anything anyway. Had he stopped and told them what he thought was wrong, maybe they would have done that work earlier and avoided the mess.
I'm not saying it's his fault, it's not in his job description to check out tracks for safety, but in this case it probably would have helped.
But if the track specialists don't know by now then I would have to wonder. Get this, I am working on you as a Paramedic and I am about to push this drug, so I ask you first if you think it is the tight drug for you? My point is, that rope pushing the cart statement that was made earlier.
Quote from: benprobst on August 04, 2009, 07:51:52 PM
Man oh man, there are not a lot of facts in this thread. Jamie was not "suspended" (for 24 hours) for bad mouthing anyone. He was "suspended" for his language used exiting the press room and outside of it.
Well, that might have been what was written on the suspension, but it was the last straw after he tried to organize a protest of the event.
Mladin has given his competition fits for years now, Josh Hayes will be my next choice...