Motorcycle Racing Forum

Racing Discussion => Rules and Regs => Topic started by: skipper08 on January 25, 2009, 12:51:57 PM

Title: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 25, 2009, 12:51:57 PM
so to have a single digit on the tail you have to have a side fairing number too.
if you dont want the side fairing numbers you have to put 2 numbers on the tail.

this is the set up on my bike but i dont have the side plate numbers.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/Homestead%202009/th_HMS_2279.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/Homestead%202009/?action=view&current=HMS_2279.jpg)(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/Homestead%202009/th_HMS_2324.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/Homestead%202009/?action=view&current=HMS_2324.jpg)(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/Homestead%202009/th_HMS_2397.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/Homestead%202009/?action=view&current=HMS_2397.jpg)

now i dont know why the side fairing number when it cant be seen at a lean angle.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: tzracer on January 25, 2009, 01:28:48 PM
Try a view from the outside of the track. Not all corner workers are on the inside of the track.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 25, 2009, 07:59:48 PM
thats what im saying from the side it wont work either, so what is the difference.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Casper34 on January 25, 2009, 08:13:11 PM
Quote from: skipper08 on January 25, 2009, 07:59:48 PM
thats what im saying from the side it wont work either, so what is the difference.

True, but those pictures look like they were taken from the inside of turn 3. The corner worker station for turn 3 is on the outside. So it would make it alot better and easier to see the bike number from that station.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Jason748 on January 25, 2009, 08:21:14 PM
From the inside of the corner  the single tail number reads better than the two small ones that don't really fit.  And from the outside of the corner the "new" number on the side of the fairing (not the tail) is easily readable.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 25, 2009, 09:38:37 PM
Quote from: Casper34 on January 25, 2009, 08:13:11 PM
True, but those pictures look like they were taken from the inside of turn 3. The corner worker station for turn 3 is on the outside. So it would make it alot better and easier to see the bike number from that station.

actually all those pics were taken from out side the track and all the corner workers have their spot inside the track, i dont know if all the tracks are set up the same but im just saying. maybe some tracks are design better than others.

my question is, if i go with the double numbers on the tail, a corner worker can not see my numbers from the inside as good as the single one and if he is on the outside of the corner he will never find out who i am bc of the lean angle of the bike wont allow to see it and since i have double numbers on my tail i dont have to put the side fairings numbers.

here is what i mean, couple examples.
this is in daytona so a double number is required,

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/Daytona/th_300-03-1.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/Daytona/?action=view&current=300-03-1.jpg)

homestead

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/homestead%2010-21-07/th_300-17-4.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/homestead%2010-21-07/?action=view&current=300-17-4.jpg)(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/homestead%2010-21-07/th_300-18-2.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/homestead%2010-21-07/?action=view&current=300-18-2.jpg)


and i dont think that it would be possible for a corner worker or anyone to see the numbers whether is a single or double number.

i could have been passing this rider under a yellow flag but can you see my number...... and that is a double plate on the back.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/homestead%2010-21-07/th_300-15-3.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/homestead%2010-21-07/?action=view&current=300-15-3.jpg)

see....

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/Daytona/th_P1030486.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/s4orce2001/Daytona/?action=view&current=P1030486.jpg)
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Casper34 on January 25, 2009, 10:10:08 PM
ok the first pictures are TAKEN from the INSIDE of turn 3, the corner worker station is on the OUTSIDE of turn 3. that is why you wont see the side numbers, but if you were at the station, you would. now, the next pictures you posted from HMS are Taken from the OUTSIDE of turn 8, thats why you cant see your tail numbers, but IF you had your number plate on your fairing, you would be able to see it.

look at my sig, turn 3 and 8 were my corners, i know them like the back of my hand. at the turn 3 station it would help GREATLY if there were number plates on the side. when you are exiting turn 2, you are so far away that you cannot see the number up front, and by the time you hit turn 3, your lean is so much that you cant see the tail number.

turn 8 is a different story. if you watch the entrance of the bike in 8 you can see the front plate. yes you do lose sight of it on the lean, but then you can see it again on the exit.


"all the corner workers have their spot inside the track" as you said, no they dont. turn 3 and turn 8 are the ONLY turns where the corner worker station is outside the track. you can get to every other station without crossing the track but those two stations.

im not triyng to be cocky or anything, i just know those corners and with knowing those corners i know that side number plates would help ALOT.

http://nationalprivateer.com/cv_0204_homestead_photos.html (http://nationalprivateer.com/cv_0204_homestead_photos.html) if you look at the first set of crash pictures, they were taken from the inside of turn 8. the next set (right below the first set) were taken from the outside.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Burt Munro on January 25, 2009, 11:20:31 PM
Gus,

You really need to think about taking golf up as a hobby.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: bwebb43 on January 25, 2009, 11:30:42 PM
Hey Gus You have to have the numbers on the side fairing by it's self not near any other stickers .So that you can see it when you are leaned over .  :thumb:
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: benprobst on January 25, 2009, 11:36:49 PM
Man, you have a ton of sponsors.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Racingxtc7 on January 26, 2009, 05:25:34 AM
The reason for all the numbers is so that corner works don't have to pay attention til they hear a crash.

seriously though, when bikes are packed together tight its impossible to make out all the numbers as they are coming at you.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Casper34 on January 26, 2009, 08:45:33 AM
Quote from: Racingxtc7 on January 26, 2009, 05:25:34 AM
The reason for all the numbers is so that corner works don't have to pay attention til they hear a crash.

i cant believe anyone would say that bout corner workers. most corner workers can tell before a bike goes down. not " til they hear a crash".

i can tell you bout an incident at turn 8 homestead, that a riders throttle stuck wide open. i was running to the nascar turn 2 before the rider hit the wall. so the corner workers do pay attention, now that i am kinda mad at this... 

 
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Casper34 on January 25, 2009, 10:10:08 PM
ok the first pictures are TAKEN from the INSIDE of turn 3, the corner worker station is on the OUTSIDE of turn 3. that is why you wont see the side numbers, but if you were at the station, you would. now, the next pictures you posted from HMS are Taken from the OUTSIDE of turn 8, thats why you cant see your tail numbers, but IF you had your number plate on your fairing, you would be able to see it.

look at my sig, turn 3 and 8 were my corners, i know them like the back of my hand. at the turn 3 station it would help GREATLY if there were number plates on the side. when you are exiting turn 2, you are so far away that you cannot see the number up front, and by the time you hit turn 3, your lean is so much that you cant see the tail number.

turn 8 is a different story. if you watch the entrance of the bike in 8 you can see the front plate. yes you do lose sight of it on the lean, but then you can see it again on the exit.


"all the corner workers have their spot inside the track" as you said, no they dont. turn 3 and turn 8 are the ONLY turns where the corner worker station is outside the track. you can get to every other station without crossing the track but those two stations.

im not triyng to be cocky or anything, i just know those corners and with knowing those corners i know that side number plates would help ALOT.

http://nationalprivateer.com/cv_0204_homestead_photos.html (http://nationalprivateer.com/cv_0204_homestead_photos.html) if you look at the first set of crash pictures, they were taken from the inside of turn 8. the next set (right below the first set) were taken from the outside.

1st off is not about been cocky or not but you say that you know your corners like the back of your hand, well turn 8 CW can walk into the track there is a big opening where the ambulance goes through, that is where the CW are station too, turn 3 does not really have a CW bc the CW is in the inside of turn 4 to take care of 3, 4, 5 and if im not wrong they are not at ground level bc they are is some what of an elevated floor.(if i remember right)

and

2nd, i think you didnt read my post right.

IF IM GOING TO RUN THE DOUBLE NUMBERS ON MY TAIL, i dont need side fairing numbers.
so like you said you wont be able to see my number either way, are you following me now.
so what is the difference if you have a double or single on the tail.

thats why i posted the pic of the bike with the numbers on the tail, and then the pics on the track but you can not know which pics is double or single number.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 12:11:12 PM
Quote from: Burt Munro on January 25, 2009, 11:20:31 PM
Gus,

You really need to think about taking golf up as a hobby.

why???
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: bwebb43 on January 25, 2009, 11:30:42 PM
Hey Gus You have to have the numbers on the side fairing by it's self not near any other stickers .So that you can see it when you are leaned over .  :thumb:

i rather run it single in FL and double when i have to go to Daytona.
i think is retarded the side fairing numbers, they serve no purpose. If the CW is in out side the only way to see the number is if you have a side fairing number if not you are still in the same boat as always LOST. LOL bc you cant see the number, so it makes no difference. i would think it makes more sence on the back of the leathers. you can see if after they went by too.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 12:14:54 PM
Quote from: benprobst on January 25, 2009, 11:36:49 PM
Man, you have a ton of sponsors.

.... yeah i know right lol
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Casper34 on January 26, 2009, 01:09:15 PM
the corner worker station for turn 3 is back to back with turn 8. yes that station is elevated the height of the tire wall. the runner for 3 has to climb through a hole cut in the fence and then over the tires. i have done this countless times running to turn 2 gravel pit, because the turn 2 station is on the inside.sometimes if the runner is in turn 3 or turn 8 the runner from 4 comes up to 3. turn 4 is at track level, there is an opening just as big as 8.

no i did not read your post wrong. i am saying at turn 3 and at turn 8 it would help greatly if there are numbers on the side. just like the rule book says
       
             "if the rider chooses to place the side number display on the fairing, a single number display on
             the top of the tail section must also be installed and orientated to be read
             from the rear of the machine..
"  taken from the 2009 asra/ccs rule book

so you don't have to do it. this an option, an option that would help a few corners out when trying to look for a bike or rider.

when i see a rider that say dive bombed another rider in turn 3 i walk over to turn 8 get the number and then call it in... or whatever happened.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: Casper34 on January 26, 2009, 01:09:15 PM
the corner worker station for turn 3 is back to back with turn 8. yes that station is elevated the height of the tire wall. the runner for 3 has to climb through a hole cut in the fence and then over the tires. i have done this countless times running to turn 2 gravel pit, because the turn 2 station is on the inside.sometimes if the runner is in turn 3 or turn 8 the runner from 4 comes up to 3. turn 4 is at track level, there is an opening just as big as 8.

no i did not read your post wrong. i am saying at turn 3 and at turn 8 it would help greatly if there are numbers on the side. just like the rule book says
       
             "if the rider chooses to place the side number display on the fairing, a single number display on
             the top of the tail section must also be installed and orientated to be read
             from the rear of the machine..
"  taken from the 2009 asra/ccs rule book

so you don't have to do it. this an option, an option that would help a few corners out when trying to look for a bike or rider.

when i see a rider that say dive bombed another rider in turn 3 i walk over to turn 8 get the number and then call it in... or whatever happened.


well anyways, you are not understanding the CW situattion so...... thats my point if they are not going to make it mandatory then what is the difference???? You still cant see it. Right??
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Casper34 on January 26, 2009, 01:37:17 PM
yes. If i leave the turn 3 station.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Burt Munro on January 26, 2009, 02:46:44 PM
Casper,

I think the only way for Gus to understand what you're trying to explain is for him to spend some time as a Cornerworker.  1 race should be enough for him to understand the problems with the location of number plates.  :thumb:
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: Burt Munro on January 26, 2009, 02:46:44 PM
Casper,

I think the only way for Gus to understand what you're trying to explain is for him to spend some time as a Cornerworker.  1 race should be enough for him to understand the problems with the location of number plates.  :thumb:

ok ill put it this simple that a monkey will understand, im going to run the DOUBLE NUMBER IN MY TAIL.
you wont be able to see my number from turn 3 unless you follow me around the the track but doing so you will be leaving your work station and that should not happen.

so what is the difference if you run single # on the tail or double, if you dont make the side fairing number mandatory YOU STILL WONT BE ABLE TO SEE THE NUMBER.


we know that the side fairing number will help the CW in those situation but lets see how many ppl will run it like that.

PS: dude if you dont understand that, dont bother on answering anymore, thanks anyways.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: Casper34 on January 26, 2009, 01:37:17 PM
yes. If i leave the turn 3 station.

by doing that you are leaving your work station and you would be EXTREMELLY irresponsible bc what if something happens at that specific time.

what im saying is if you are going to fix something, you either do it or dont do it at all. either they make the side number mandatory or just leave it how it was, is just stupid to give the option. i really dont like the side number fairings so ill be doing the double plate on the tail, which still brings up back to CW not being able to see right.

huh??
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Burt Munro on January 26, 2009, 03:48:22 PM
You convinced me Gus.   I'll just go sit in a tree and eat my banana.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 04:01:34 PM
Quote from: Burt Munro on January 26, 2009, 03:48:22 PM
You convinced me Gus.   I'll just go sit in a tree and eat my banana.

ok...
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: ScubaSteve on January 26, 2009, 04:23:12 PM
Gus- Not all stations have only 1 guy at them. Plus all officals and cornerworkers have radios. We can follow you around the track without having one of our corner workers leave a station.

Is that simple enough for you...haha
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: MELK-MAN on January 26, 2009, 04:25:55 PM
1st off CORNER WORKERS .. WE LOVE YOU. without your thankless services we don't race. Just hear our side of things too.

Gus, the side fairing # they are refering to would be on the lower belly pan area or on the side of your upper fairing. Im with you, clearly from your photos the single "100" is no less visible than if you had two "100's" back to back on either "side" of the tail. Leaned over, you still can not see the tail from the outside of a turn.
What is a mystery is how for decades we have had numbers on the front, and the tail and occasionally there is trouble, yet all the other sanctioning bodies alllow a single number on the tail. Presently it is actually harder to see some tail section numbers when forced to have 2 of them vs. a single number. The side panel numbers i hope are not enforced except for extrem circumstancs, especially in age of transponders. In the event there is an incident can the corner worker actually get a clear visual on a number every time? With all that goes on especially in multiple bike incidents, or what if a bike is to the outside of the rider your trying to get a number on? Even with a number on the side of the bike (not tail) you still wont see it.
Next we are going to be required to run a number on the bottom of the belly pan in case we are upside down ! (ok... that was sarcastic and sorry , but i have pictures of my bikes upside down..)

ALL kidding aside, i know the corner workers have a hell of a job and it is a less than thankless job for the most part. Rarely do you get a "thanks man, i really appreciate your help today", only rants like this when we riders get our undies in a bunch. Please just consider our view on this too...
Greg
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 04:28:12 PM
Quote from: ScubaSteve on January 26, 2009, 04:23:12 PM
Gus- Not all stations have only 1 guy at them. Plus all officals and cornerworkers have radios. We can follow you around the track without having one of our corner workers leave a station.

Is that simple enough for you...haha

so why the side numbers if you can do that, thats what im saying.
if you can say on the radio " white ducatti, white leathers, white helmet passed a racer under yellow flag " then why are they giving so much trouble with the numbers on the side. like i said if is not mandatory then why even bother on changing it at all.

and i know thats what CWs do, i was just answering to what casper said of leaving his station to go to turn 8 even if is for a split second.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: ScubaSteve on January 26, 2009, 04:33:34 PM
Personally I like how your numbers on your tail. i dont make the rules though.

Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 04:36:06 PM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on January 26, 2009, 04:25:55 PM
Gus, the side fairing # they are refering to would be on the lower belly pan area or on the side of your upper fairing. Im with you, clearly from your photos the single "100" is no less visible than if you had two "100's" back to back on either "side" of the tail. Leaned over, you still can not see the tail from the outside of a turn.
What is a mystery is how for decades we have had numbers on the front, and the tail and occasionally there is trouble, yet all the other sanctioning bodies alllow a single number on the tail. Presently it is actually harder to see some tail section numbers when forced to have 2 of them vs. a single number. The side panel numbers i hope are not enforced except for extrem circumstancs, especially in age of transponders. In the event there is an incident can the corner worker actually get a clear visual on a number every time? With all that goes on especially in multiple bike incidents, or what if a bike is to the outside of the rider your trying to get a number on? Even with a number on the side of the bike (not tail) you still wont see it.
Next we are going to be required to run a number on the bottom of the belly pan in case we are upside down ! (ok... that was sarcastic and sorry , but i have pictures of my bikes upside down..)

ALL kidding aside, i know the corner workers have a hell of a job and it is a less than thankless job for the most part. Rarely do you get a "thanks man, i really appreciate your help today", only rants like this when we riders get our undies in a bunch. Please just consider our view on this too...
Greg


i agree with you 100% the CW do always an excellent job, till this day i have nothing bad to say about them.
and i would love to make it easier for them, but why instead of running the numbers like that why not put them on the leathers on the back, i think that would help even more.

a side fairing number can also be blocked by another rider and you know that as in the expert pack they run side to side all the time.

im just saying they are trying to make so many rules on top of rules for no reason, if they need to do some thing then just do so if not just leave it how it was.

making it an option is not going to help CW at all either make it mandatory or dont mention it at all.

i am personally going to stich my number to the back of my leathers bc i like that and is just a habit, lets see what the end result of that will be.


EDIT: i understand the tail situation. and in regards to your up side down situation, i just cant believe you have pics of that, just insane LOL
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 04:38:04 PM
Quote from: ScubaSteve on January 26, 2009, 04:33:34 PM
Personally I like how your numbers on your tail. i dont make the rules though.




thanks bro. i actully try to put the tail numbers bigger than what i had before so it was better to see.
and if you made the rules we would be some where else probably LOL.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: ScubaSteve on January 26, 2009, 04:40:43 PM
Quote from: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 04:38:04 PM

thanks bro. i actully try to put the tail numbers bigger than what i had before so it was better to see.
and if you made the rules we would be some where else probably LOL.

Hey you would like my rules or else! I'll see you next weekend Gus. good luck in Ex class!!
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 04:43:00 PM
Quote from: ScubaSteve on January 26, 2009, 04:40:43 PM
Hey you would like my rules or else! I'll see you next weekend Gus. good luck in Ex class!!

i know i know i know...........................no argument there lol.
thank stevooooo, see you in 12 days
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Casper34 on January 26, 2009, 06:26:38 PM
Thanks steve.

If you read the rule, if you want the single number on your tail, then YES you do need the side numbers.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: mq105 on January 26, 2009, 08:41:54 PM
You make a good point, Gus. I posted my reply/thoughts here: 

  http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,22211.0.html
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: LongDogRacing on January 26, 2009, 09:18:15 PM
Ben Spies with side numbers: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2009/wsbk/portugal-test-jan/@/_BEE8052.htm

Looks like side numbers have the potential to be very visible.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 10:56:21 PM
Quote from: mq105 on January 26, 2009, 08:41:54 PM
You make a good point, Gus. I posted my reply/thoughts here: 

  http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,22211.0.html

Exactly. lol thanks mike
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skipper08 on January 26, 2009, 10:56:45 PM
Quote from: LongDogRacing on January 26, 2009, 09:18:15 PM
Ben Spies with side numbers: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2009/wsbk/portugal-test-jan/@/_BEE8052.htm

Looks like side numbers have the potential to be very visible.

that is very nice i must say.
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Mongo on January 27, 2009, 02:25:20 PM
You've got it exactly right Gus - you need to run your single number on top of the tail, another on the bottom and then also run them on both sides of the fairing.  That way you'll be covered and legal per the rulebook. 
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: Eric Kelcher on January 27, 2009, 02:47:33 PM
I do not understand what the issue is.

If you want to run your numbers as has been standard practice for umpteen years it is legal.

If you have issue with tail size, want to be artistic or other reason you have another option.


Does either option make it fool proof that your number will be spotted everytime? no but the chances are good


Numbers are not allowed on lower, they should be on upper portion of side fairing basically under the gas tank, and need not be mounted on the underside of tail section
Title: Re: New number display regulation
Post by: skiandclimb on January 29, 2009, 01:57:19 AM
The side numbers seem to be very Agostini-esque.