So, for those who haven't noticed (and it took me by surprise too) there's going to be two women's classes this year in CCS.
I have mixed feelings about this... since even though *I'm* slow, that women shouldn't need the "handicap" of having their own class. That like in many equestrian sports, and auto racing, that gender doesn't matter. (And the reason there aren't lots of female champions is because there just aren't enough of us doing it... yet.)
BUT at the same time I fully recognize that having a women's only class will attract more women to the sport - and I completely support anything that does that - and I'm super stoked about this opportunity and hope the program is successful.
So, I'm hoping to run the women's only classes next year.
Question #1 is if anyone knows what events will run the women's classes?
#2 is about my bikes. My 600RR will qualify for Middleweight since it's all stock, but Lightweight rules are based on LW SS. I have an Ultralightweight Superbike legal bike - that was legal under the *old* ULWSB rules, and at a power disadvantage when put up against other LWSS bikes. Is there any way to petition for special cases? I'd love to be able to run in both and support both while still running in ULWSB if possible. Otherwise I'll just run MW and get lapped by Meghan like Ed laps me now. :lmao:
Edit - I really should have stressed that despite my internal issues about this that I'm in total support of this and am looking forward to seeing more women actually riding on race days!
Wow I dint hear about this! Thats cool. Jen I think next time you see Monica you should convince her to take a school and race her bike. Shes got a ninja 250, (assuming its legal and competitive within the classes) it would be kick ass to see yous race each other.
Jen, at least we'll both get lapped by Meghan!
I was having mixed feelings as well, but i think if we still participate in some of the other classes, we should see the extra class as an extra playground. I am also glad that i said i'd try it out this year, before I found out about the women only class this past Saturday.
So, stop thinking too much about it :-) We'll go out, have fun, and get lapped by Meghan, :lmao:
I'd be also interested to hear a little bit more about the new class and the rules.
Thanks :D
I must have gone insane :ahhh:
It's all Jeff's fault!!!
You can see the rules so far in the 2009 Rulebook: http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2009/rules/2009%20asra-ccs%20rulebook.pdf (Page 62)
And Bonnie has a bit of info up on the Femmoto site: http://www.femmoto.com/
I got my ass kicked all last year by a female rider....and let me be the first to admit it- her sex has NOTHING to do with her abilities. She is smooth as silk on a bike, and is new to the sport. So, I was mixed when I saw the new class structure. But in all honesty- I think holding these classes will generate new interest in female riders, and hopefully attract new riders to the sport!
My wife began riding last year, and I would love to think that someday my two little girls will be out there, dicing it up with the rest of us!
Kudos to CCS for taking this leap- and I hope they fill the grids fr it!
-Ski
From the Femmoto site,
"CCS will offer a women’s class at all 63 CCS events"
XIII
The Michelin contingency info says 60 events - I'm hoping for clarification if the class will be run at all CCS events or not - if that's even known yet.
I'm on the wanting to be treated as an equal side, ergo the mixed feelings - that doesn't mean I'm not happy. The class is special treatment, which I don't want - but still I'm grateful and happy for the opportunity - for the contingency and for the possibility that it will attract more women.
Quote from: GIGOLO on January 20, 2009, 12:00:21 AM
Wow I dint hear about this! Thats cool. Jen I think next time you see Monica you should convince her to take a school and race her bike. Shes got a ninja 250, (assuming its legal and competitive within the classes) it would be kick ass to see yous race each other.
For sure! She'd be legal in the lightweight class. How competitive would depend on what other bikes are entered. Get her to some trackdays, and maybe budget to buy her an SV. :)
I'm not sure about this yet.
I don't see any real reason for it, there isn't anything stopping women from racing now. Besides, look at all the men doing it. How hard could it be? :biggrin:
Frankly, what kept me saying that i would never race is the mindset about who will be on the track at the same time with me. Do "they" have to go to work on Monday, etc., given that I ride a 600.
Just as I decided to give it a try, I heard about this on Saturday.
So, if there are women out there who don't want to try it for the same reason, they might try it now. From what we heard on Saturday, women only class will be ran with F40. (i think most of "them" have to go to work on monday 8) )
I think it just might be easier to get into racing.
Femmoto has attracted more women to the sport, so let's hope this will have the same effect.
oh, and can't be that hard... :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Quote from: funsizeracing on January 20, 2009, 02:22:23 PM
look at all the men doing it. How hard could it be? :biggrin:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Quote from: truckstop on January 20, 2009, 11:50:45 AM
You can see the rules so far in the 2009 Rulebook: http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2009/rules/2009%20asra-ccs%20rulebook.pdf (Page 62)
And Bonnie has a bit of info up on the Femmoto site: http://www.femmoto.com/
Now i found it in the Rulebook. Thanks Jen!
Quote from: funsizeracing on January 20, 2009, 02:22:23 PM
I'm not sure about this yet.
I don't see any real reason for it, there isn't anything stopping women from racing now.
This will probably be a common thought among women who already race, but I definitely think this will attract more women who were maybe hesitant to try - for whatever reason. (Because men are too aggressive? Too competitive? Too intimidating? Just prefer riding with other women? Spouse or S.O. wouldn't let them because of those reasons? I don't know.) I can tell you the reason I picked Ultralight was the cost of entry (cheap) and because the guys riding in it were all more experienced and more forgiving of having a moving chicane on the track. Not to say that they weren't intimidating or competitive (or that some women aren't intimidating), but I'm much more comfortable with Ed Key lapping me a couple times vs. a first year amateur in the "meatgrinder". There are a lot of women doing trackdays - some of them are very fast women. It would be cool to see them racing.... and once they realize it's no big deal and get addicted - hopefully they'll start entering the "co-ed" classes too.
Quote from: funsizeracing on January 20, 2009, 02:22:23 PM
Besides, look at all the men doing it. How hard could it be? :biggrin:
Ditto this: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
the only thing that seems weird to me is that class sizes have been shrinking as of late. the economy won't help. is adding classes a wise idea at this time? I mean they turned ULWSB into a free for all by eliminating the EX/AM in that class.
I would assume this would be run at "larger" events? I can't imagine that many Women at, say, Blackhawk that they could even fill the grid.
Makes sense to me to add it.. If its run at the same time as F-40 especially. Never saw a woman in that class.
Senior superbike and Señorita superbike. :biggrin:
Quote from: xb9racer on January 20, 2009, 05:22:03 PM
I mean they turned ULWSB into a free for all by eliminating the EX/AM in that class.
With the inclusion of SV's in UWLSB - they've split it back up into AM and EX again since there should be more entries.
If it's run with F40/LW-F40 it wont really make much of an impact schedule-wise, and I think the hope is to get more people (women) on the grids.
Quote from: Supergirl on January 20, 2009, 03:11:10 PM
From what we heard on Saturday, women only class will be ran with F40.
Great......old farts and wimmen on the track at the same time. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me! :ass:
I keed, I keed! (at this rate I may make 20,000 smites by April 1st!) :thumb:
Jen and Becka you know I luv ya!
I think its great to get more women out there racing. And you girls can still race in the regular classes as well, so its nothing to be offended about. Its just like the F40 class, it allows older guys to have a class that they are competetive in. I dont see it as any different then any other sports where women have their own divisions. Womens MX has grown greatly in the past few years to the point they have their own professional series now and I think that is in a large part due to most local tracks have women specific classes. Granted roadracing is not as physical as mx . I'm sure there will be a few women making the F40 men feel bad as they come by from the 2nd wave.
I think it just plain sexist to propose a women only RR class. Its suggesting that women are incapable and afraid to race with anyone else. We have all seen that gender is not the limiting factor on a racebike.
And the argument that it'll draw more women into racing is crap. There aren't that many women racing because not that many women want to race.
Now... if they insist on a women only class, at least make it different- I propose that they have to ride side-saddle...but seriously... any women-only class is not initially going have a grid large enough to justify running by itself. That means that the female racers will still be in the "meat-grinder", they'll just be starting in a different wave. And if the plan is to make the class run its own race, with no combined classes, regardless of grid size... well that's just totally unfair to the other racers that have to combine EX/AM, LWSS, ULSB, and 125 GP.
And the F40 is different, if I live long enough, I will someday be able to compete in F40.
Quote from: 123user on January 21, 2009, 10:32:28 AM
And the F40 is different, if I live long enough, I will someday be able to compete in F40.
Of course it's different. :lmao:
I am offended by the F-40 class. It is Agist... :wah:
:biggrin:
Quote from: 123user on January 21, 2009, 10:32:28 AM
I think it just plain sexist to propose a women only RR class. Its suggesting that women are incapable and afraid to race with anyone else. We have all seen that gender is not the limiting factor on a racebike.
And the argument that it'll draw more women into racing is crap. There aren't that many women racing because not that many women want to race.
Now... if they insist on a women only class, at least make it different- I propose that they have to ride side-saddle...but seriously... any women-only class is not initially going have a grid large enough to justify running by itself. That means that the female racers will still be in the "meat-grinder", they'll just be starting in a different wave. And if the plan is to make the class run its own race, with no combined classes, regardless of grid size... well that's just totally unfair to the other racers that have to combine EX/AM, LWSS, ULSB, and 125 GP.
And the F40 is different, if I live long enough, I will someday be able to compete in F40.
why is F40 different? If you dont think there is a difference between men and women competing in athletic sports you are naive. I'm all for women racing in the mens classes as well but I think it is good for women to have a class of their own as well. It has already been stated that they will run with F40 which is hardly the meatgrinder class.
F40 is different, 'cause I ain't ever gonna be a chick! There is a difference between the sexes in many activities... amateur roadracing ain't one of them. And when you've never raced before... every class is a "meat-grinder". If you weren't scared sh@tless in your first real race, then your probably not quite sane.
However, I would actively promote a "Fat-Man Cup", though, Minimum rider weight of 200lbs, maximum of 80HP. It's totally unfair that I have to compete with 90lb girl! Have you ever tried to tuck in a size 13 boot?
I hope this does help promote RR, but it probably won't. It's just like when Smith and Wesson introduced revolvers with pink grips... does anybody really think that a woman is going to decide to buy a gun because its pink.
I do have a question for all of the ladies out there who have thought about racing and have not tried it yet. What is the major factor holding you back from giving it a try?
I have asked this question to a few females that I know do track days. Their response was similar. They felt that the men were too aggressive and were intimidated by that factor. I do not know if that is just a way of saying racing is intimidating or that men racing can be intimidating. I am just wondering if this is really a perdominating feeling that female riders carry, or is my research just plain crap? Anyhow, this leads me to believe that having the ladies class run with the F-40 and LW F-40 my not bring too many new female competitors into the sport.
I know for sure that Megan, Becka, and Jen are out there shaking it up, and in many cases showing the rest of us how it's done. Maybe you gals could share some of the emotions that you went through convincing yourself to try racing.
I know it was, and still is a decision I go through at every event. I have reservations about the chance of getting hurt, or the money, or the huge time investment to prepare for an event. Once I get out there and my reservations quickly disappear, I frequently think to myself,"What was I thinking? this is waaay too much fun to pass up on". Then the cycle repeats itself for the next event.
Guy
Quote from: EX_#76 on January 21, 2009, 02:25:16 PM
I do have a question for all of the ladies out there who have thought about racing and have not tried it yet. What is the major factor holding you back from giving it a try?
To me, it was the "meatgrinder class" for the most part. A few things:
I know personally a few track day riders of very, very young age who decided to go racing after doing just 2-3 track days, while also crashing during them by going over their heads or trying to keep up. During a track day, I don't feel being in danger when riding with them because I can choose to be on the opposite side of the track at the time, or simply be faster :biggrin: In a race though, I am afraid that the "fearless youth" will take me out coming into T1, because the brain switch is turned off or they don't have to go to work next Monday...
I don't want to be misunderstood here. I believe in having "talent," but I also believe in experience. Road OR track. The people I had mentioned above had started riding the same season... 0 years, 2,000 street miles, 2 track days, next weekend racing... that's intimidating!!
When i first talked to Jen about this, she said "why do you think i'm racing the hawk? I don't mind being passed by those guys, because they've been racing forever and i trust them." very wise words!!
Second reason for me was the thought "i'm too slow to race," and i didn't believe that there are slower riders racing, until i looked at some results myself. So, instead of doing practices only, I decided that i was going to give it a try. Introduction of women's only class made me think that it was going to be even more fun and it will maybe motivate some other women to give it a try.
Already last year, we had talked about a lady TC team for this season. That could be awesome!!
Another reason that spoke against racing, is that i had experienced more than once during a track day (NOT in "A" but in "I") that some of the men had a serious problem being passed by a woman. It's not a rumor, trust me, and it gets dangerous and it's scary. Gentlemen in "A" are a lot nicer, hopefully not only due to the fact that i can barely pass anyone in "A" :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
So, I can speak only for myself, but besides the obvious reasons of not wanting to get hurt and not having enough experience, the above are important factors that made me think that I would never race.
Now i'm sitting here and the spring can't come soon enough. :ahhh: go figure....
(and it's all my friend jeff's fault ::) )
My real concern is this, are we doing this to "appeal" to women, or are we creating a class with "gutter-guards" and insinuating that somehow its safer? Everybody is nervous their 1st season, and they aught to be! Fear is nature's way of telling you that your doing something stupid.
Its just dangerous to expect that we're going invite anybody to race in a "safe-class", and not have some legal problems. How is this being sold?
Maybe it could be sponsored by Virginia Slims... it'd be called "Now you can race- baby!" Its insulting to women to suggest that they need special treatment to race. Its not fair to everybody to allocate track time to a special few.
As far as guys worrying about being passed by a girl... well they can just go back to Mississippi! If your holding on that tight, you just don't belong in any sanctioned event.
so now the f-40 races are "tame"? Try telling that to Ed Key and the other top finishers. If you want to race, you'll race, regardless. My personal opinion is this is a very stupid time to try to make this happen. Has anyone been reading the papers lately? Check to job market? I think turnout is going to be way down this year as it stands right now for the regular races, let alone adding new ones.
My wife, and alot of other girls I know, (yeah I know alot of girls :biggrin:) with bikes, all say the same thing. Racing doesn't interest them. Its really a male dominance thing. Then again racing (to me) is a good time for self-reflection, perseverance and discipline, they are a huge part of the game. Most importantly, racing is just fun..........period.
If C.C.S. wants to add womens classes, who cares? It wont make any grid smaller. If a girl enters a female only race that is run the same time as F40, she will probably enter all of her normal races. There will only be a lack of attendance issue if she is an older female that could run F40. The two girls that race that I know (Jen and Meghan) aren't anywhere close to 40. The only way that C.C.S. would be sexist is if they wouldnt let women race, but thats not the case. Adding a womans only class doesnt take money out of anybodys pockets.
Also, saying that Jen and Meghan appear very young doesn't mean that I was trying to get them to boost my karma. :)
Scott, I seem to recall you being awful up in arms last season when an AM made a hard pass on you into 7, I watched the whole thing as the guy in question was trying to put you between us (BTW you simply left the door wide open and he walked through it). Don't try to convince me that you don't understand the not wanting to deal with overly aggressive riders.
XB9, I have been lapped by the riders you are talking about in GTlights races and NEVER did any of them make a pass that was anything short of courteous. I can however think of an awful lot of hairball passes made by less experienced riders and these are the ones these women wish to avoid.
Is a womens class necessary on a physical ability basis? No. Do some women shy away from the sport on the basis of aggressive riders? Definitely. Let's let it run for a season to see how it goes, there are plenty of classes out there with grids of 5 or less already one more isn't going to hurt.
Welcome, ladies. May the grids be filled with your positive energy. :thumb:
Femmoto was started and run by a Woman.
So...
Its women supporting (or sponsoring) the series, for women.
XIII
If it gets more people interested in the sport thats great! But I also fear that some will enter/allow their sig. others to enter thinking that an all womens class is safer. It is still racing. Trust me, you don't need testosterone to crash.
As for the problems some have expirienced with men, I've never been shown anything but support by all the guys out there.
And the biggest question of them all: Are we going to take cooridinated bathroom breaks before we grid? :biggrin:
Quote from: funsizeracing on January 21, 2009, 09:59:14 PM
If it gets more people interested in the sport thats great! But I also fear that some will enter/allow their sig. others to enter thinking that an all womens class is safer. It is still racing. Trust me, you don't need testosterone to crash.
As for the problems some have expirienced with men, I've never been shown anything but support by all the guys out there.
And the biggest question of them all: Are we going to take cooridinated bathroom breaks before we grid? :biggrin:
Oh those GP Pro gloves definitely dont go with the supertech boots shes got on. One might note that it will be difficult to pull hair with a helmet on.
I still have plenty of hair to pull even with a helmet on...
:D
Quote from: truckstop on January 21, 2009, 11:17:46 PM
I still have plenty of hair to pull even with a helmet on...
:D
Thats a fact!!!
Although I can not imagine you making anyone agry enough to pull your hair LOL
Guy
Whether one can consider having a women's class a stunt or anything else doesn't matter. If it gets a couple more people involved in this foolishness, hey, I think it's a good idea.
I don't see where it's taking any time from anyplace as it's just getting added into another event rotation.
The potential lady racers have an opportunity to get involved and addicted. It won't change issues in practice, but that's part of reality. As they get experienced, both their personal experience and in that more female racers are on track among the others with TPS, issues with ladies being an anomaly vs the norm might begin to go away. As it is now, the ladies are more of the norm at track days, I feel. They aren't a huge percentage, but there isn't the focus issue on them as there was in the past. Those of you that were at the front of that were ground breakers. Good job!
Anythinbg to get more people to race. I am looking foward to having Rachel win some of that contingency $$ so i can spend it.
I think it's a cool idea.
I don't consider it a 'handicap' - no more than I would a class like F40 or Supertwins.
I do think that a women's only class will attract people to the sport that wouldn't be racing otherwise. For that reason, I beleive the class will be good for the sport. I think Supergirl might be the perfect example here.
Plus, the paddock is a total sausage fest...
Quote from: murf99 on January 22, 2009, 02:30:32 PM
Plus, the paddock is a total sausage fest...
Yeah... but this isn't exactly the "girls in leather I was thinking about"
I'd like to think CCS is getting something ($$$$) out of this arrangement besides cramming two more classes into already busy weekends?
Quote from: 123user on January 22, 2009, 06:42:44 PM
Yeah... but this isn't exactly the "girls in leather I was thinking about"
I'd like to think CCS is getting something ($$$$) out of this arrangement besides cramming two more classes into already busy weekends?
Negative and bitchy, I thought those were the traits of women.
Mr Gigolo I'm quite suprised you let this little farce go this far. The only way you (as well as myself and99% of the men at bhf) are going to give a shit about the ladies only class is if Alexa starts modifying their suits so that visible boobies are rightout there for us to enjoy to compensate for the boredom caused watching them ride. If it was not for my extensive talk with you and your lovely wife at the banquet about our favorite porn then this little game you play with the ladies may have slipped by. So now that its out in the open lets hear some of those one liners you are so famous for! And please keep the topic on the boobies and bikes theme! Thanks in advance!! :boink:
Quote from: Boober on January 23, 2009, 01:55:55 AM
The only way you (as well as myself and99% of the men at bhf) are going to give a shit about the ladies only class is if Alexa starts modifying their suits so that visible boobies are rightout there for us to enjoy to compensate for the boredom caused watching them ride.
:jerkoff:
Quote from: 123user on January 22, 2009, 06:42:44 PM
Yeah... but this isn't exactly the "girls in leather I was thinking about"
I'd like to think CCS is getting something ($$$$) out of this arrangement besides cramming two more classes into already busy weekends?
its already been stated that the womens classes will run combined with F40, so how does that take up more time in the schedule? Its great that the women have a class to race in against their peers now and can also run in some of the regular classes if they want just like us F40 riders. Of course it can potentially put more money in CCS pockets if it brings out more racers, isnt that the point of being in business.
While each additional wave adds maybe 30-40 seconds to a race, I'll agree that's pretty negligible in "racer time", but its much more in "timing and scoring" time, that it turn will result in slower results posting and longer waits between races.
And it should be obvious that each wave presents an additional set of "starting hazzards", it increases the odds of a 1st corner pileup in addition to the "looping effect". Each additional wave also creates another layer of lap traffic... or obstacles for faster riders.
I disagree that F40 is somehow safer, or slower. Even if you right about the 40+ crowd riding less aggressively, it still doesn't make sense to add a "starter class". Now you're going to throw a bunch of novices in with experts who already sense their own mortality.
The truth of the matter is that new riders have much more track experience coming into racing than those that started 10+ years ago when trackdays were much less common. Whatever you want to call it, there is less need for this type of class than there's ever been. If someone (male or female) is enjoying trackdays, but is too concerned about the hazzards of racing to jump right in... well, I don't think they need to be lured in with a gimmick.
Most of the female racers I know are faster than me (not that I'm any kind of benchmark) and are at no disadvantage in either the talent or courage dept. It just another extra class. The economy stinks, traveling is expensive, racing will be down this year... does CCS need another 5 rider grid?
But I'd really like to get back the boob conversation... Spider -Works do you see a set of Push-Up Leathers coming?
Quote from: Boober on January 23, 2009, 01:55:55 AM
Mr Gigolo I'm quite suprised you let this little farce go this far. The only way you (as well as myself and99% of the men at bhf) are going to give a shit about the ladies only class is if Alexa starts modifying their suits so that visible boobies are rightout there for us to enjoy to compensate for the boredom caused watching them ride. If it was not for my extensive talk with you and your lovely wife at the banquet about our favorite porn then this little game you play with the ladies may have slipped by. So now that its out in the open lets hear some of those one liners you are so famous for! And please keep the topic on the boobies and bikes theme! Thanks in advance!! :boink:
When I was 19 a girl I knew told me that guys on bikes were irresistible. I feel that girls on bikes is all of the same if not more intense emotions. Look, this debate (if you could call it that) is dumb. If you are a hetero male racer, a specific time to look at girls on bikes should be welcomed with open arms, as well as an open invitation to hang out that night at your "off the beaten path campsite". Racing really is a sausage fest, the only way my wife would let me go more is to have girls to talk shit about me with while she is there, she likes that. Do you know how quickly she would forget about the money I spent on racing, if she was winning her races let alone racing period. Its like marriage counseling without the bald guy in the room fuckin up your shit, trying to secretly bone your wife by sympathizing.
At least that reply sounds like you! :spank:
Quote from: funsizeracing on January 20, 2009, 02:22:23 PM
I'm not sure about this yet.
I don't see any real reason for it, there isn't anything stopping women from racing now. Besides, look at all the men doing it. How hard could it be? :biggrin:
you've provided that, winning expert races.
Ok... I guess I am one "those" gals. ;) I am similar to Jen, I prefer to just be one of the guys. I prefer to blend in with the other guys at track days, and be treated as an equal.
However, the idea of the cameraderie with the other gals has drawn me in. I am now an officially licensed roadracer. Now, I just gotta find the "balls" to do this! :)
I just don't get enough of a chance to hang around like minded gals... I work, play, and socialize in the motorcycle industry. Wash, rinse, repeat...
I am not independantly wealthy, so I am just going to play as desire and funds allow.
You are going to rock Tanya!
I hope we'll get to grid together this year Tanya!
Congratulations on your license!!! w00t, w00t!
+1 Woot Woot.
XIII
:ahhh: <----- me