http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=33030 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=33030)
:pop:
Sabre rattling. Even open wheel racing couldn't support a series split.
You can bet there will be further discussions...time to get the all the egos into one room and don't come out until you have a workable rules package--and fast!
Nothing new really. The manufacturers have been looking to develop a new playing field that they can control since they got word that the rules were probably going to change last year. DMG knew this.
MIC...aren't they manufacturer supported? So, the MIC is going to "develop and run" a racing series that is corrupted by the manufacturers. Seems like we already had that program.
I ways, I expect the Japanese manufacturers go through with this. It will mess up the American motorcycle road racing series for about four to eight years as a result. Eventually, the MIC program will go away as DMG has an FIM sanction themselves besides ownership of the various AMA FIM sanctioned programs.
Contract time is coming up for riders and teams. So, the manufacturers are just throwing this into all of this make everything hard for riders and teams. That leverage is disappointing.
wow ,Xaus riding a BMW hope they got plenty of spares. why didn't mic come up with this last year? or were they content with Suzuki winning everything and no one in the stands . DMG probably figures they could crush them with their beer sales in 2 years. they practically own the sports channels .so what time slot is mic going to get Tuesday morning 6am you can tell it's an election year all good words nascar spends money in ways we haven't thought of. i really don't think their going to take on a whole new series and a whole new demograph and them fiddle fart around with it . their going to pour the money to it . but it's not going to the manufacturers it's going into marketing beer tee shirts posters and cutouts at Lowe's their going to tell the manufactures to pay or get off the bus. after 40 years look at a nascar car there's nothing factory about it
All true, just hurry it up.
http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID=12516
Excellent analysis of the current situation.
Now I have to look at this statement from Cycle News...
"July is days away and the season ends in about three months. Soon afterwards, testing will begin on the 2009 machines."
I couldn't get my 2006 race bike until March of 2006, while the manufacturer teams had them in September/October of 2005...
You'll also have to recognize that the writer of the Cycle News "story" is Henry Ray Abrams, who was a long time employee with Honda and who has been working against the new program for some time...
This will get one started on that...
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=32013
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=33044
Latest update from RRW on DMG's rules proposals and where the OEMs stand. Sounds like Yamaha is on board.
Ok, for racers, if you have dreams, here's part of the reality.
Some motorcycle racers are looking to be upwardly mobile. As in, the goal is to race pro, and even race internationally.
The international governing body of motorcycling is the FIM. The United States affiliate has always been the FIM, and DMG has received, as I understand, the FIM approval also.
So, if one were offered an opportunity to race a WSS, WSB, GP series, one would need appropriate licensing to do that, which would come from the home affiliate, currently the AMA and DMG in the US.
So, a rider that raced in the MIC series wouldn't be acquiring points to achieve international racing status.
This isn't a concern to the manufacturers, but it would be a real concern to a rider that is looking to be world wide.
hmmm seems like Roger has done his homework...and has been listening/working with the FIM to make the AMA series (both Daytona and American Superbike classes) fit into the FIM rules so our guys have a better chance to move up into WSS/WSB and MotoGP.
And kind of ironic that Honda, Suzuki and Kawi all run in Canadian SB with basically the same rules the DMG has proposed for AMA - and they
don't complain about that..............
the saga is sure to continue.....
Quote from: PJ721 on June 28, 2008, 12:14:44 PM
And kind of ironic that Honda, Suzuki and Kawi all run in Canadian SB with basically the same rules the DMG has proposed for AMA - and they
don't complain about that...
The Canadian distribution is different. Remember, American Suzuki, American Honda, Yamaha USA...
Quote from: PJ721 on June 28, 2008, 12:14:44 PM
hmmm seems like Roger has done his homework...and has been listening/working with the FIM to make the AMA series (both Daytona and American Superbike classes) fit into the FIM rules so our guys have a better chance to move up into WSS/WSB and MotoGP.
I don't think the rules give anyone a "better chance". We have no MotoGP or even 250GP here in a professional series, or 125 for that matter.
But a specific affiliation with the FIM is required for licensing.
Let's say you want to be a wild card entry at WSB next year in the US event. You'll get your international license from the US affiliate, currently the AMA.
Rules are structure. That's it. That's about the show. It can be set up for a level or skewed playing field. That can affect the show.
you dont think that if the bikes in Daytona SB and American SB are more in line with bikes in the new 600 cc MotoGP and WSB classes
that it wouldn't make it easier for a rider to make the move to either of them? It just seems to me that DMG is looking at making the AMA a
better feeder system than it is now....maybe it's just wishful thinking...
only time will tell how this whole thing works out.
Pay in the current AMA sereis has been very good for a while. Hey, foreign riders, even world champions, come back here. Some could leave this series, but it would be for a lower salary, for those that have one, which are few.
As for prepardness, again, MotoGP is MotoGP. There isn't anything like it in any other series that I know of. It is what it is. Not to mention the travel.
Additionally, the Yosh AMA Superbikes are more superbike than the WSB Suzuki's.
As for DMG, why should they feel the need to develop riders for someone else? Similarly, why are drivers coming from other disiplines to race in the NASCAR Cup Series? Money and competition are good. DMG appears to be building a show that would present an attainable, enforceable rules structure with real purse money. With an attainable, enforceable rules structure, the rider becomes more important again; the result isn't so predetermined. That will be attractive to sponsors outside the industry. Really, there won't be so much of the need for inside the industry sponsors.
Quote from: C Sagan on June 28, 2008, 02:44:11 PM
attainable, enforceable rules structure, the rider becomes more important again; the result isn't so predetermined. That will be attractive to sponsors outside the industry. Really, there won't be so much of the need for inside the industry sponsors.
good point
And from one of the area's representatives who's marque was one of the original manufactures that competed in Superbike...
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=33059
Really, here's what I think Roger thinks: he's going to do a "Chuck Yeager" and focus on the task at hand. He's working very hard with his various programs. Participation by individuals and groups or teams is certainly optional. But that will be a decision that they must make on their own, as racing is dangerous and expensive.
Having worked with Roger before, I am VERY interested in where this will all go as I recognized the vision of what he saw in the past, but he was restricted by the ever increasing power of the manufacturers. He certainly tried to work with them all the time, and I think the growth of the whole program was a result of his effort and vision. AMA Road Racing paid for a lot of stuff at the AMA in the late 80's early 90's.
I have to think back on how Supersport was compared to today. It was production based. Polen won the first Supersport race at Daytona with a hybrid stock exhaust on his Honda Hurricane...the first version of the CBR600. Now, although I know that my trusted guy Jim Rashid likes this part of the rules, there are quick shifters, kit boxes, and things like that which are allowed. I can't say for him that he necessarily supports that now, but I know in the past he did. I looked at it as a problem of availability; I seemed to be last on the list to get those items. HRC black boxes were available in for the CBR600F2's, but I didn't have one available to me. It was illegal, but I know a good number of people had them for AMA competition. Might have helped me out, might not have, but I didn't have access to it. I think I actually was given a number of someone to call for it, but its existance was denied.
I'd like to see a show. I'd like to see the riders that I know actually have the opportunity to have some reasonable footing to compete. There was even a time when Supersport was really a private rider race rather than an expendature of $5000 of hard earned cash to see how far into the top twenty one could get.
I feel that it devalued the common racer, the guy that pays his own bills, drives all night, etc. Yes, certainly, the aim of the new program is to be big like NASCAR, but I think there are more opportunities for real racers when the field is under some kind of attainable, enforceable control.
Roger knows what he's doing, he needs the time to get it done.
Better for all involved, except maybe the elite.
Many folks complained about the AMA for a long time, now someone is actually changing things, tuff road with many obstacles.
It seems that my initial guess about how things would go eventually is already starting to take shape.
DMG has decided to give the 1000 class a new name "American Superbike", a purse and equal billing with the 600 class "Daytona Superbike". Looks like they have dropped the dyno and HP limits and will allow modifications much like the FIM does. There a slew of other changes being tossed about as well. RRW & SBK Planet have posted some of the stuff recently.
Looks like MIC deal is simply a a RFP idea from a few members - BMW, MV, Aprilia, Ducati & Yamaha were not part of the meetings. It will get more interesting as the time draws closer for the manufacturers to decide what they are going to do. The manufacturers and DMG have to listen to each other for any of this to work. The riders who like the current deal won't like the changes, the riders who don't care will probably not change their opinions much , but the riders who dislike the AMA's ways may be able to support the DMG changes once they are settled.
As for Roger E. having his ways of doing things or being pompous that's like calling a carrot orange. You have to go in knowing that's the case. DMG has it's agenda, the manufacturers theirs, the riders, the private teams and the track owners each have theirs. What may be overlooked is that the press has it's own agenda particularly CycleNews w/HRAbrams and RRW w/Ulrich so take what you read there with knowledge that it will carry their bias.
How any of this affects CCS/ASRA is unknown yet. It shouldn't have much impact regardless of what happens. If the classes are relatively close in configurations then it probably won't have much affect at all. There doesn't appear to be that many riders who cross over both series. It could have the affect of adding riders to ASRA/CCS if it becomes a battleground for DMG. Time will tell. :pop:
A big part of my issue of the entire situation is that I would like to get an AMA license, hopefully even for next year. However, the last thing I heard, both the (newly renamed) "American Superbike" and the "Daytona Superbike" classes were going to require a superbike license. That leaves nothing but MotoST classes for any newcomer riders. I'll be willing to consider what DMG is offering as soon as I hear some sort of confirmation that there will be a place for people like myself. Otherwise I probably won't even watch the AMA anymore, and I'll be looking for jobs in Europe........... :banghead:
mister salad did you have to spell check copernicus and are you a track owner now or is it not in the stars
LOL! No, I wasn't going to own the track. It's a project. I have a hard enough time figuring out how to afford keeping my little short bus running vs trying to buy land at these outrageous, crop inflated prices.
I look at it like this: the current AMA sucks and is unwatchable... and this from an AVID race fan. RE has a great track record and despite whether you like him or not he usually ends up doing pretty well. No matter WHAT he does it can't be worse than it is now.
You also have to remember that the US is a country full of SUVs, not bikes. That means fewer people that can relate, which means fewer fans. I ride a bike now because of gas prices and I see nothing but gas guzzlers all day long... not sure how all these folks afford gas. Maybe we'll see a boom of bike sales and possible fans in the near future.
so nick are you buying farmland to grow soy beans to make fuel to keep your bus running? hey how bought and methanol v twin series i got some big drill bits to drill my jets out with
Soy and farmland is too expensive. Used engine oil is pretty cheap though. :biggrin:
Lots of back tracking going on at DMG. They're finding out this isn't as easy as saying "Build it and they will come".
Moto-ST rules in Superbike racing isn't cutting it.
i haven't really thought about used engine oil i wonder how hard it would be to refine my shop generates about 500 gallons a month. moto st rules kind of negates the whole superbike idea. I'm surprised they haven't adopted world superbike rules just to make it simple for themselves but that's probably more expensive than the current rules