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Racing Discussion => Racing Discussion => Topic started by: quicktoy on April 16, 2008, 05:52:23 PM

Title: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: quicktoy on April 16, 2008, 05:52:23 PM
what are the payouts for experts and ams?
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: d-wire on April 16, 2008, 06:28:34 PM
Depends on the region Quick.  I like the way the FL region does it, with the experts being the only ones that make the payout dollas.  Fl experts go from $600 to win down to $50 for 10th place I believe.  The other regions I think....pay for am as well.  Personally, I don't like the idea of amatuers racing with $ on the line.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 16, 2008, 07:25:53 PM
i think its gay that AM riders get paid..
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Super Dave on April 16, 2008, 08:44:02 PM
And no pay at ASRA events...
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: quicktoy on April 16, 2008, 09:58:21 PM
Hey I didnt make the rules that ams get payed, was just asking what the payout was LOL
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: 104fahl on April 16, 2008, 10:01:13 PM
Are the payouts listed somewhere? I found all the payouts for other companies but i don't see anything else. Thank you.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: cardzilla on April 17, 2008, 03:47:58 AM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on April 16, 2008, 07:25:53 PM
i think its gay that AM riders get paid..

+1... I mean, WTF does AM mean for god's sake?  Not that experts are "pro's", but am definitely have no business getting anything... thus the incentive to hone your skills and turn expert so we don't have grids of 40 Ams and only 10 experts.  Sorry for the threadjack, but this one bugs me too.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Garywc on April 17, 2008, 08:14:31 AM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on April 16, 2008, 07:25:53 PM
i think its gay that AM riders get paid..

thats funny
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 17, 2008, 09:55:45 AM
nothing against you Scott, hey.. get the cash if they pay it out but you know what i mean. I bed if the purse was higher for the expert ULGP more expert riders would potentially show up. Move the AM purse to the EX purse (more payout) as the AM riders will race no matter what. I assure you AM riders wont sit an event out if they dont have the possibility of making a few dollars.. You would see more expert riders on the grid however in a dash for some cash as on average the faster expert riders spend way more per race weekend. Look at our FL region UNGP races. When Jensen, Stokes, Wood, Lewin, Smith, Day, Thompson, etc. show up.. they always enter the GTO (as FL reg pays, ) and the unlm. GP .. as there is $600 to win and payout to 10th position.. no payout for AM.
VERY SORRY for the threadjack..
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 12:24:34 PM
Yeah AM's should have to pay double just to enter races, and that money should be given to all the experts just for showing up on the grids and allowing the AM's to behold thier greatness and inhale thier exhaust fumes!

Don't reward them for anything, they are NOTHING! and dont amount to ANYTHING!

Nice attidude of entitlement! Its nice to see what some of you really think about us AM's.... And FYI this AM does sit out races when there is no $'s on the line. I'll enter every UL GP that has purse $'s, no purse $'s I wont enter. I dont race 'no matter what', If you want more expert purse payout figure out a way to get more sponsers involved in the sport, keep more expert class racers active in the sport, while encouraging more new racers to the sport. Promot the sport, get more pople to comeout and watch. What is the average length of a club racers carrer? 3 yrs or so? Why? Cost plain and simple, and you want to take away what little purses there are for AM's...

That attidude I bet will surely stimulate the sport.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 17, 2008, 12:41:58 PM
Quote from: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 12:24:34 PM
Yeah AM's should have to pay double just to enter races, and that money should be given to all the experts just for showing up on the grids and allowing the AM's to behold thier greatness and inhale thier exhaust fumes!

Don't reward them for anything, they are NOTHING! and dont amount to ANYTHING!

Nice attidude of entitlement! Its nice to see what some of you really think about us AM's.... And FYI this AM does sit out races when there is no $'s on the line. I'll enter every UL GP that has purse $'s, no purse $'s I wont enter. I dont race 'no matter what', If you want more expert purse payout figure out a way to get more sponsers involved in the sport, keep more expert class racers active in the sport, while encouraging more new racers to the sport. Promot the sport, get more pople to comeout and watch. What is the average length of a club racers carrer? 3 yrs or so? Why? Cost plain and simple, and you want to take away what little purses there are for AM's...

That attidude I bet will surely stimulate the sport.
Quote from: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 12:24:34 PM
Yeah AM's should have to pay double just to enter races, and that money should be given to all the experts just for showing up on the grids and allowing the AM's to behold thier greatness and inhale thier exhaust fumes!

Don't reward them for anything, they are NOTHING! and dont amount to ANYTHING!

Nice attidude of entitlement! Its nice to see what some of you really think about us AM's.... And FYI this AM does sit out races when there is no $'s on the line. I'll enter every UL GP that has purse $'s, no purse $'s I wont enter. I dont race 'no matter what', If you want more expert purse payout figure out a way to get more sponsers involved in the sport, keep more expert class racers active in the sport, while encouraging more new racers to the sport. Promot the sport, get more pople to comeout and watch. What is the average length of a club racers carrer? 3 yrs or so? Why? Cost plain and simple, and you want to take away what little purses there are for AM's...

That attidude I bet will surely stimulate the sport.

totally misread.. I said "I assure you AM riders wont sit an event out if they dont have the possibility of making a few dollars" .. as in, AM riders ride to ride, and many experts have been at it way more than 3 yrs and are trying to offset the extra expenses of multiple bikes, rebuild costs, tires every other race, etc. Hey, i remember my AM season very well. 1 bike, 1 set of tires per weekend, small trailer, pump gas, etc. BUT.. AM is AM, expert has pro riders and pro riders are doing this to make some cash when possible. Take a breath, read the posts a bit better next time.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: d-wire on April 17, 2008, 12:54:37 PM
HAHAHAHAHA.  I totally agree Greg.  Jason, don't get your feelings hurt.  Its not about that.  Have you run one of the FL region events, Im sure you probably have.  As a spectator, I would always go to watch the "shootout" or UNLGP.  You knew as a spectator it was the main event, with the best riders on their best bikes for the $$$$.  Henry likes to showcase that race and it works.  Its awesome. It sells tickets and brings people out. It brings out the newspaper and is great for the sport.  I'll never forget watching Shane Prieto and Marco Martinez take on whichever fast guys showed up. Hell, I busted 4 bones at the last event and left the hospital to go watch the "shootout".   In the other regions, it seems like just another race.

Also paying purse $$ in amatuer promotes cherry picking or guys staying in amatuer that are really good riders.
I didn't like the idea when I was an amatuer.  I don't think its good to have the extra pressure of purse $$ on the line with riders of lesser experience. That being said, if they are going to pay......shoot, go for it.  I can't blame you or Quick for going for it.  Your mistaken if you think we are hatin on am's
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: d-wire on April 17, 2008, 01:01:23 PM
Also, like you said......its hard to afford this sport more than 3 years........if the purse $ is better in expert, guys can afford to do this sport longer.  Its easy to get to expert....hard to stay there.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 01:10:06 PM
I did read it just fine. You think experts should be entitled to purse because they put out more expense. Speaking from a AM point of view here, this AM wont race in a class just to race. If there is no payout in UL GP I wont race that class, when there is a $ purse I do. I also race up in class when I see it as an advantage, ie less people, I can still be competitive, as well as possibility of contengency $'s. If there were no purse $'s would it make that big of a difference for me, nope. I've 'won' a grand total of maybe $150 in sprints, and maybe $500 total in the TC. But there are still plenty of AM's that do I wouldnt want that reward to be taken away just to be given to experts.

I think AM's should get purse money if it is avaialble, and it should not be taken away just to give the experts more payout for thier races. Purses are a reward for doing well in whatever class that might be AM or EX.
If you want more purse $ for expert races figure out away to keep more expert racers involved in the sport and figure out a way to get more sponsers involved in the sport, get more spectators involved in the sport. Don't take what little money there is for AM's just to give the EX more of a reward for spending more $'s. The purse paying (UL GP as example) cost more to enter, why not make all of expert races more to enter then and make them all paying races for experts then.

Make expert races cost $25 more, and you can give that moeny away as a purse. Or race the ASRA series it has payouts in every class I do believe.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 01:23:38 PM
Quote from: d-wire on April 17, 2008, 01:01:23 PM
Also, like you said......its hard to afford this sport more than 3 years........if the purse $ is better in expert, guys can afford to do this sport longer.  Its easy to get to expert....hard to stay there.
Or maybe if there were more $'s available to the AM's they might be able to afford it longer than 3 yrs. Two way street there.

I dont know if I would say it is 'easy to get to expert', this is my 3rd year as an AM. I missed the bump to be an expert, I finish usually in the top 10 of every race as am AM, and do 5 or 6 races per weekend and I didnt make it.  This sport is expensive plain and simple. I would prefer a way to get more sponsers, more payouts etc... without taking away from what is already available.

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 17, 2008, 01:35:39 PM
Jason.. im on the phone to Kevin elliot today to request that the Unlimited GP AM and EX payouts be switched to the riders finishing 5th through 10th.. I feel it is unfair to leave out these riders, im using your logic that everyone, AM or EX alike should be treated fairly. Since AM riders can make a few $ as can the EX riders we can not leave out the guys that finish just a little way back.  After all, the $150 or  that is the wining payout for this race will make the weekend profitable now.. sheeze. As for your comment that as an AM rider, you would not race unlimited GP if there was no payout.. well , that just sad. I do agree riders should try to collect whatever they can, I started racing HWSS mid season my Am year as there was much more contingency available than some other classes. You should look over the contingency payouts for all classes to figure where you can get the most tire money, etc. I dont look down on riders that run the AM ULGP to get the whopping $150-200 to win.. i just think it silly that AM riders get any cash payout period.  FYI, the "average" my only be 3 yrs but that stat is skewed by the MANY riders that get out after the 1st year.. (IMO).
Like Dwire said, the ULGP expert event in FL is a showcase.. best talent, on the best bikes they can get on the track.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 01:43:57 PM
Quote from: d-wire on April 17, 2008, 12:54:37 PM
HAHAHAHAHA.  I totally agree Greg.  Jason, don't get your feelings hurt.  Its not about that.  Have you run one of the FL region events, Im sure you probably have.  As a spectator, I would always go to watch the "shootout" or UNLGP.  You knew as a spectator it was the main event, with the best riders on their best bikes for the $$$$.  Henry likes to showcase that race and it works.  Its awesome. It sells tickets and brings people out. It brings out the newspaper and is great for the sport.  I'll never forget watching Shane Prieto and Marco Martinez take on whichever fast guys showed up. Hell, I busted 4 bones at the last event and left the hospital to go watch the "shootout".   In the other regions, it seems like just another race.

Also paying purse $$ in amatuer promotes cherry picking or guys staying in amatuer that are really good riders.
I didn't like the idea when I was an amatuer.  I don't think its good to have the extra pressure of purse $$ on the line with riders of lesser experience. That being said, if they are going to pay......shoot, go for it.  I can't blame you or Quick for going for it.  Your mistaken if you think we are hatin on am's

The only FL event I have been at is Daytona for the ROC. Sounds like it would be great to watch, but there can be just as much exceitment in the AM ranks. I remember Robbie Wilikey, Bret Garretson, and Loyd Bayley as AM had a lot of excitement and people watching thier races too, did they not deserve and $'s because they didnt spend as much $'s and the experts that they were running with?

Promption is what I am getting at, getting moer sponsers invovled, more people watching.. that is how you create more $'s for purses not taking it away from the classes that do pay. Which is what it sounds like you saying about the FL region.. It was promoted a bit more that just another race was. Have a dash for the cash race..

If you arent haten on AM's it sure sounds that way.. I saw 3 or four post that all said the same thing... AM's dont deserve the ehasust fumes of you EX's. If I was misstaken I will offer and appolgy..
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on April 17, 2008, 01:35:39 PM
Jason.. im on the phone to Kevin elliot today to request that the Unlimited GP AM and EX payouts be switched to the riders finishing 5th through 10th.. I feel it is unfair to leave out these riders, im using your logic that everyone, AM or EX alike should be treated fairly. Since AM riders can make a few $ as can the EX riders we can not leave out the guys that finish just a little way back.  After all, the $150 or  that is the wining payout for this race will make the weekend profitable now.. sheeze. As for your comment that as an AM rider, you would not race unlimited GP if there was no payout.. well , that just sad. I do agree riders should try to collect whatever they can, I started racing HWSS mid season my Am year as there was much more contingency available than some other classes. You should look over the contingency payouts for all classes to figure where you can get the most tire money, etc. I dont look down on riders that run the AM ULGP to get the whopping $150-200 to win.. i just think it silly that AM riders get any cash payout period.  FYI, the "average" my only be 3 yrs but that stat is skewed by the MANY riders that get out after the 1st year.. (IMO).
Like Dwire said, the ULGP expert event in FL is a showcase.. best talent, on the best bikes they can get on the track.

Using my logic? Where did I say that 5th - 10th needed a payout, or that EX and AM's should be treated the same. Experts already make more in contengency and purses, and manufacturer money.. I think the current way of payouts, contengency etc.. is fair the way it is. What I said is, what is available shouldnt be taken away just to go to Ex's. Which is what you all were saying. Am's didnt deserve it and it should be given to the Ex as more purse payout.

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on April 17, 2008, 01:52:57 PM
I would take it a step further and say AMs shouldn't be awarded championships, regional or national 
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on April 17, 2008, 02:12:03 PM
I think AM's should stay at trackdays.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: honda60071 on April 17, 2008, 02:35:07 PM
Weren't EX, AM at one time?  This is club racing! Not AMA,SBK,Moto GP. Get a grip. Sure lots of ex have there AMA card and that is really something to admire. Until one of us works for CCS/ASRA leave the AM alone or help out with advice. One day most AM you talk to now will be EX given time. Be careful who you bash they might in front of you at one point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: backMARKr on April 17, 2008, 02:38:25 PM
Finally...something to read!!! This place has been a tomb....




I was getting tired of teaching my classes....
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: d-wire on April 17, 2008, 02:45:45 PM
 :banghead:   I'll make sure I speak for myself here.....If you spent 3 minutes with me, you would know I don't have a problem with anyone faster and anyone slower.  The conversation was about whether or not $ should be paid in amatuer UNGP.  We have a different perspective because we race in the FL region and the UNGP "shootout" is a huge deal with the $ being part of that.  It would be great if $ was paid in EVERY class.  

TEST ME.....Come over at ANY event, and ask for some help and see if you get a favorable response.....then form your opinion on whether or not I have a problem with ANY rider.  
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: d-wire on April 17, 2008, 02:49:07 PM
PLease quote where I was disrespecting someone.  If you get offended every time someone has a different opinion.....geez, relax just a little. 
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: honda60071 on April 17, 2008, 03:29:33 PM
Your right you have your opinion and you probably know more about tracks and  certain situations than I do. I'm new to physically doing the sport not about bikes. Lets look at it this way we can all agree that AMA is pro right. Good, now take someone who races AMA and says EX in CCS/WERA/AFM etc...don't deserve Championships or prize money because they a club racer are not pro racer. Same difference right?  Well anyhow I'm not trying to piss in anyone cereal and call it nonfat milk. Just don't like the fact of anyone bashing one particular group jut because the have a AM status. My comments are my opinion, same as anyone else. If you think I'm off okay, really I'm a nice guy I enjoy talking and picking brains on the sport because I love it so much, just as anyone else who races. Nough said AMA on Speed this weekend (2) superbike races and supersport.   
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 17, 2008, 04:15:25 PM
honda60071 - LilJayRR
you have to know what "logic" is first, you have again put words in my mouth. Go back..read. USING YOUR LOGIC .. is what i said. If you need me to explain this i can. NOBODY bashed anyone, or the AM group as a whole. Some of us have simply stated that AM should NOT be paid. ANd for those that think the AMA is the only "pro" group.. your wrong. Expert status is a "pro" status as it allows riders to compete at regional or national events for Manufac. contingency money..that can add up to TENS of thousands of dollars. THis is a big deal, and some expert riders (that do NO ama events) make a living chasing contingency dollars. Money also comes in the form of product contingency and purse money for races.. and i will say it again, I do not think AM riders should be paid purse money. Do the AM season to get some experience, maybe win a national championship if your talented and a bit luckey, then get expert status.
Dwire for sure will help ANYONE provided you dont come off as an asshat, as will I. I have seen him give alot of advice and hands on help to many a rider. THat goes for myself too. If you have been around JGP or even CMP this past weekend, i had people sometimes more than a few, coming over and asking about track info (of which i had little as it was my first time), tire info, suspension help, just shooting the shit in general.. The ONLY time i said "come back in 15 minutes" was when getting 1st-2nd-3rd call for my races, and even then i sometimes was giving advice while putting my helmet on.
SO.. just to clarify.. nobody said AM riders aren't worth spit, just the oposite. We need riders to help the sport grow, and that is why Dwire, myself and many other faster riders bend over backwards to help out the new riders..we were once there too. We never disputed there are not GREAT races in AM classes either, just AM riders should not be PAID. You want money..get out of the AM class, and get expert status!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 17, 2008, 04:49:17 PM
Jason, you just don't get it. May I suggest that you look up amateur in the dictionary. The average time for most amateurs to remain (amateurs) is no more than 2 years. You seem to have found a home :cheers:! The Florida Region does not pay cash to amateurs but they do get the normal CCS contingency awards . All cash purses go to the experts, as well they should. You don't have to worry about even running amateur UNGP as we don't offer that class! And that's because we don't want to "stink-up" our main event :thumb:!

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 04:58:56 PM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on April 17, 2008, 04:15:25 PM
honda60071 - LilJayRR
you have to know what "logic" is first, you have again put words in my mouth. Go back..read. USING YOUR LOGIC .. is what i said. If you need me to explain this i can. NOBODY bashed anyone, or the AM group as a whole. Some of us have simply stated that AM should NOT be paid. ANd for those that think the AMA is the only "pro" group.. your wrong. Expert status is a "pro" status as it allows riders to compete at regional or national events for Manufac. contingency money..that can add up to TENS of thousands of dollars. THis is a big deal, and some expert riders (that do NO ama events) make a living chasing contingency dollars. Money also comes in the form of product contingency and purse money for races.. and i will say it again, I do not think AM riders should be paid purse money. Do the AM season to get some experience, maybe win a national championship if your talented and a bit luckey, then get expert status.
Dwire for sure will help ANYONE provided you dont come off as an asshat, as will I. I have seen him give alot of advice and hands on help to many a rider. THat goes for myself too. If you have been around JGP or even CMP this past weekend, i had people sometimes more than a few, coming over and asking about track info (of which i had little as it was my first time), tire info, suspension help, just shooting the shit in general.. The ONLY time i said "come back in 15 minutes" was when getting 1st-2nd-3rd call for my races, and even then i sometimes was giving advice while putting my helmet on.
SO.. just to clarify.. nobody said AM riders aren't worth spit, just the oposite. We need riders to help the sport grow, and that is why Dwire, myself and many other faster riders bend over backwards to help out the new riders..we were once there too. We never disputed there are not GREAT races in AM classes either, just AM riders should not be PAID. You want money..get out of the AM class, and get expert status!

See there you go again... you say one thing, then turn right back around and give a back handed remark.. "I'm not saying you aren't worth spit, you just aren't worth any $'s'. is all you are saying... I never said you weren't a nice guy, I'm sure you are.  I just dont agree that AM's don't deserve any kind of reward for any of the hard work/time/money they put in.  My point is the EX class already has more/higher $'s payout, contengency, manufacture money etc.. and not to take away from what little is already given to the AM's, just to give experts a few more $'s.

If you want more at the top it has to starts at the bottom.. The more AM's that make it to EX and stay in the sport better it would be for everyone involed. So you have to help the AM's and one way to do that is to have some payouts. I dont think they should be as much as EX but I do think they are deserved. The current system for AM's works well as far as I'm concerned, and obviously by CCS as well..

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 05:11:46 PM
Quote from: hdpromos on April 17, 2008, 04:49:17 PM
Jason, you just don't get it. May I suggest that you look up amateur in the dictionary. The average time for most amateurs to remain (amateurs) is no more than 2 years. You seem to have found a home :cheers:! The Florida Region does not pay cash to amateurs but they do get the normal CCS contingency awards . All cash purses go to the experts, as well they should. You don't have to worry about even running amateur UNGP as we don't offer that class! And that's because we don't want to "stink-up" our main event :thumb:

HD

So what was that remark supposed to really mean?.... This goes right back to my original point... Its nice to see what some of you EX think about AM's... Forgetting that you once were one of us.

Just because we haven't made it to expert status means we arent worthy of smelling your exhaust...  :finger:

If anyone is acting like a asshat it is you by your comment. I know what the definition of a professional is and amature for that matter. My point isnt that we deserve more payout, it is that we do deserve what we already get or dont get for that matter. If AM's dont get a payout or even able to run UNGP in FL region I dont have a problem with that, I'm not arguing that they should. I dont agree that what they do get should be taken away and given to the EX. Which is what my original point was.


Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: quicktoy on April 17, 2008, 05:19:09 PM
OMG SHUT UP EVERYONE. I am an am and agree with Greg, that the money should go to the fastest riders of the weekend, not the fastest ams and then the fastest Experts.  I simply had a question...WHAT IS THE PAYOUT for each, thats all. if you wanna bicker go threadjack someone elses thread.  good lord can someone answer the question before anymore of this dribble comes out.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 17, 2008, 05:26:09 PM
Amateur: "one who does something for pleasure, not for pay". Sorry Quicktoy for getting away from your question. Why not just e-mail Eric at CCS and he will give you the correct answer. It doesn't look like you're going to get it here.

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: CCS243 on April 17, 2008, 06:02:52 PM
Unlimited Grand Prix payouts were explained in the license mailer, which included the ASRA and Team Challenge payouts.

http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2008/misc/08%20license%20maile%20v2%20.pdf (http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2008/misc/08%20license%20maile%20v2%20.pdf)

For those in a rush:

2008 CCS UNLIMITED GP CONTINGENCY
1st  $ 200   6th $ 75
2nd $ 150   7th $ 75
3rd  $ 125   8th $ 75
4th  $ 100   9th $ 75
5th  $ 90    10th $ 75

At ASRA/CCS events, the ULGP contingency is not paid, it is a points only event.  ULGP is an CCS not an ASRA event.  We do not preclude their participation, but prevent their "cherry picking" the dollars, as they have the opportunity to compete for their own contingency.

Affilliates may and do decide to vary from the standard of CCS in their regions.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: 104fahl on April 17, 2008, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: r1owner on April 17, 2008, 02:12:03 PM
I think AM's should stay at trackdays.

How's it going Scott?  I thought you hated trackdays?  :err:   
I can't become an expert by doing trackdays.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 17, 2008, 06:14:08 PM
Scott..they mail you a check.
Jason Gibbons. YOU just dint get it, i got it along time ago. As HD indicated, you seem to have found a home among the AM class, and the $$ that are paid to the AM riders (for whatever reason i have no idea) will discourage you from going expert. I agree with you.. the day they quit paying AM riders in ULGP the sport will surely disintegrate. Good luck with AM riding, the guys that your racing with now will likely go expert soon and learn alto more that you will. For you to continue spouting off that myself or anyone that posted in this thread has ANY disdain for the AM riders is ludicrous. NOWHERE did i or ANYONE say ANYTHING condescending about the AM class (well, other than HD explaining that he does not want AM riders stinking up the ULGP in the FL region, but that is just HD)..i suggest you learn to read posts before getting uppity.
AT SOME POINT you will understand just how silly it is to think AM riders should earn purse money when there are expert classes at the same event.

Quote from: hdpromos on April 17, 2008, 05:26:09 PM
Amateur: "one who does something for pleasure, not for pay". HD
THis is gonna become my new signature line.. 8)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Eric Kelcher on April 17, 2008, 06:21:25 PM
http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2008/misc/08%20spring%20mailer.pdf
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 17, 2008, 06:37:49 PM
For those that are interested, CCS/Florida pays a $2,000. cash purse to Expert Unlimited GP ("Shoot-Out") as follows:

1. $600.
2. $350.
3. $250.
4. $200.
5. $175.
6. $105.
7. $95.
8. $85.
9. $75.
10. $65.

For Expert GTO, GTU & GT Lights, the cash purse is $500. to each class as follows:

1. $200.
2. $115
3. $75.
4. $60.
5. $50.

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: honda60071 on April 17, 2008, 06:53:13 PM
Everyone have a great year I don't care if I get payed or not. I want to race and have a good time maybe someday pick up expert.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 06:53:48 PM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on April 17, 2008, 06:14:08 PM
Scott..they mail you a check.
Jason Gibbons. YOU just dint get it, i got it along time ago. As HD indicated, you seem to have found a home among the AM class, and the $$ that are paid to the AM riders (for whatever reason i have no idea) will discourage you from going expert. I agree with you.. the day they quit paying AM riders in ULGP the sport will surely disintegrate. Good luck with AM riding, the guys that your racing with now will likely go expert soon and learn alto more that you will. For you to continue spouting off that myself or anyone that posted in this thread has ANY disdain for the AM riders is ludicrous. NOWHERE did i or ANYONE say ANYTHING condescending about the AM class (well, other than HD explaining that he does not want AM riders stinking up the ULGP in the FL region, but that is just HD)..i suggest you learn to read posts before getting uppity.
AT SOME POINT you will understand just how silly it is to think AM riders should earn purse money when there are expert classes at the same event.
THis is gonna become my new signature line.. 8)

You must have me mistaken for someone that has no ambition to move up from the AM ranks... in fact is it quite the oppisite. I work hard every week so I can make it to the next race weekend to better my skills. I race in as many races as I can afford to. If you think for one second that the $'s that is paid to an AM is going to keep me in the AM class you are dead wrong. As you keep saying dont put words in my mouth. If I would of been able to afford VIR last year after repairs to my bike I would of made EX last year, but that is not how it turned out. Or if they added points for participating in the TC races. I have no control over being moved to EX or not, if I was given the option to go EX or stay AM I would goto EX in a heartbeat.

We do not agree on what an AM deserves to be able to win. Which probably is because you are in the FL region and that is the way it is done there. But dont assume to know what my intentions are as far as optaining EX status or not. You may not consider it condecending, but to me is sure does, just as your assumtion that I will not ever be an EX and that I have no ambition to become one, and learn and better my skills is to me condesending. Which is I'm sure how you meant it. I can have a discussion on a subject without calling names and trying to belittle them etc..

For me I'm done with this topic, the horse is dead.... To quicktoy, sorry for higjacking your tread..  



Opinions are like aholes... everyone has one, and unless it is yours, it stinks..  

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on April 17, 2008, 06:53:54 PM
Quote from: 104fahl on April 17, 2008, 06:03:32 PM


How's it going Scott?  I thought you hated trackdays?  :err:   
I can't become an expert by doing trackdays.

Hehe.... hey Nick, just trying to get some posts going here.

For the record, I don't hate trackdays at all!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: honda60071 on April 17, 2008, 06:58:59 PM
r1owner are you are yoou east or west of the Mississippippissippissippissippi.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on April 17, 2008, 07:01:09 PM
Quote from: honda60071 on April 17, 2008, 06:58:59 PM
r1owner are you are yoou east or west of the Mississippippissippissippissippi.

Hehe.... Very Very close on the west side of the Mississippippissippissippissippi (Saint Louis)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: honda60071 on April 17, 2008, 07:04:00 PM
Just wonder I was raised over there on the IL side Freeburg, close to belville. until 19 when I joined the marines
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on April 17, 2008, 07:08:12 PM
Quote from: honda60071 on April 17, 2008, 07:04:00 PM
Just wonder I was raised over there on the IL side Freeburg, close to belville. until 19 when I joined the marines

Cool, I've only lived here since 94.  I see you're in VA, I grew up in LAngley AFB
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: honda60071 on April 17, 2008, 07:13:06 PM
talk about your swap of positions, you out there for good? I tried but my wife is from here and it's hard to cut her umbilical cord from her mama!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Garywc on April 17, 2008, 07:14:51 PM
if the money from the entry fee is where the purse comes from isnt it?so why not pay the money out to where it came from? this isnt the government we can give it back
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: quicktoy on April 17, 2008, 10:01:04 PM
thankyou to those who answered my original question.  Jason Gibbens, I am an amateir like yourself.  A returning racer after 4 years of off time for those who want to whine about me.  You are taking what Greg Melka is saying the wrong way.  I've known Greg for years and he has nothing but the upmost respect for any racer whether am, expert, pro, or even track day guy.  He is giving his opinion that he doesnt believe Ams should be payed for UNGP race, and the reason I started this thread was because I took a paying position at CMP and was unsure of the payouts. 
  HD is Henry DeGouw who runs CCS florida and I have zero problem with Henry's rules.  If you want to get paid for a race, bump up and run with the fastest guy there that weekend.  But I did just do a S.E. event and was just wondering the payout.
  As far as attacking Melka, I do have to take his back on this one, because he is voicing how he feels, although I'm sure he made a buck or two racing outside of Florida in UNGP when he was an Amateur and I'm sure he didnt hand the check back...did ya Greg ;-)  The reason I am quick to stand up for Greg, is because he had an off weekend at JGP a few weeks ago, and myself and some other Ams got by him in some of the races ( for the record Greg is waaay faster than me)  and instead of saying it was this problem or that problem, he walked right up and congratulated some of us Ams who beat him in that combined race. 
Anyways, thank you, my question has been answered.  I will continue to ride Henry's series as well as South East series.  The only problem I have with Henry not running UNGP is how do guys at ROC who only run the Florida series get gridded?  since they have no points for the Season

Scott Quick
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: d-wire on April 17, 2008, 10:02:08 PM
alright quick...you get it....thanks.  You have to understand that a discussion on the "intranet" would seem a whole lot different if it was in person.  On the "intranet" guys get all defensive and jump to conclusions cause you are missing the facial expressions and intent of the discussion.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 17, 2008, 10:14:56 PM
at 5'6" i have to jump up to discuss things anyway...
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: quicktoy on April 17, 2008, 10:21:02 PM
your probably getting slack Greg cause you did say "amateur payouts are gay"  which we both know isnt what ya meant but people who dont know u will take that the wrong way
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: 104fahl on April 17, 2008, 10:32:10 PM
Melk-man, I'll borrow you some inches if you ever need them. I got some to spare.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: cardzilla on April 18, 2008, 05:01:11 AM
Sheesh, I leave for a day and all hell breaks loose.

Look, in all forms of sport when you first start you have to take some sh!t, plain and simple.  When I started playing hockey I had to carry the older player's bags to the team bus, in football it was the gatorade jugs.  If you work hard, improve and earn respect, respect will be shown to you.   I'm so tired of the mentality in this country these days... I call it the soccer mentality (soccer is another post that I could rant about for days) namely that everyone deserves something "just for showing up."  ... BULLSH!T!  Hey, little johnny or suzie.... life doesn't pay back to tenth place ok?  You don't get a promotion for finishing 23rd in the office and Hitler wouldn't have stopped being a world menace just because the allieds "showed up."  Instead of whining about expert entitlement how about channeling that energy into BECOMING an expert?  If you really want to be an expert and have an average amount of talent you can petition for it.  Most am's gain 3-4 seconds a lap after their first few weekends of being an EX.   
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 18, 2008, 09:48:48 AM
Greg, yes I did say something about not "stinking up" our main event but you also spoke of something about amateurs being "gay"! So you're as bad as me or worse, arn't ya?

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 18, 2008, 09:57:27 AM
Quote from: hdpromos on April 18, 2008, 09:48:48 AM
Greg, yes I did say something about not "stinking up" our main event but you also spoke of something about amateurs being "gay"! So you're as bad as me or worse, arn't ya?

HD

OH NO..dont go getting a lynch mob after me now HD.. lol. :kissy: :kissy: Cleverly leaving out the word "get paid" from my quote is gonna get me sugar in my gastank at the JGP round..  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
And thanks Scott.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: fatboy122 on April 18, 2008, 10:08:56 AM
Sean, Greg and Henry..you guys are mean :wah:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 18, 2008, 01:45:11 PM
I wasn't going to post again but, since everyone else is why not...

Quick, I heard the 'buzz' around CMP from a few people about you. Not that it was a bad thing. It doesn't botter me at all. Your playing by the rules, so I wont be one that 'whines' about you. I like it actually it sets a bar if you will. Someone has to be the guy that everyone is gunning for so to speak. I'm glad you are back, and I hope you do well.

cardzilla, it has nothing to do with 'taking shit' or deserving something for 'just showing up'. What I said wasn't that everyone should get something. What I said was not to take away the small amount that AM's do get just to give it to the EX because the spend more $'s. What I said was figure out away to increase payouts without taking away if you feel EX's need more payouts. I never said AM's were entitled or deserved more. I don't think that what they do receive currently should be taken away.... If you don't like 40 am's and 10 ex's grids, figure out a way to help keep am's in the sport longer so that they become ex's and then help them stay in the sport as ex's. With no support etc. while they are at the bottom they will never get to the top, and your position of AM's don't deserve anything is counter productive IMO.

MELK-MAN, again my problem with your statement was you want to take it away from the AM's and give it to the EX's because they spend more $'s on a weekend. You may not agree that AM's should be able to 'win' any $'s, but this sport is expensive and it grows from the bottom up, so any amount of support that AM's receive is good for everyone involved in this sport. IMO. If you want more payouts for EX's figure out a way to do that without taking away from somewhere else (ala AM's).

d-wire, just like you said, "its hard to afford this sport more than 3 years........if the purse $ is better
in expert, guys can afford to do this sport longer.  Its easy to get to expert....hard to stay there."  Its a two way street, not only is it hard for EX's its hard for AM's to afford this sport too. I work hard to have enough money to race, you have to WANT to afford it. The small amount of $'s a AM can win as small as it is does help and that is good for AM's and EX's IMO. 

HD, I don't know you, and you don't know me so please don't presume that I have no ambition to be an expert, Or what my ambitions are. Coming from someone that runs the FL region I'm honestly a bit shocked that you would speak to any AM that way. I would think you would be all for trying to figure out a way to get more people involved and keep the people that are involved in the sport, and would understand that helping AM's is good for the sport whether we 'stink up' your shootout or not. I like the idea of a shootout, sounds like a great race. Maybe your comment wasn't meant the way I took it but it did sound a bit condescending to me.


Why the attitude of entitlement from the EX's to the AM's. Is it that Am's haven't earned it? Am's don't work as hard or spend as much? Am's are a lower class of racer? Why the resistance to help Am's via contencgeny and purses? You can say that with money on the line Am's will do something stupid just to try to win the $'s. Maybe, I would go a step further and say the Am's that are running up front and have the chance to win a purse are more experienced and could be competitive with some Ex's. The Am's at the front probably have 2 yrs exp or so and by your own admission that is the 'typical' time to be an expert. The rest of the pack have no chance at the $'s and their inexperience shows by their finishing place. Plus there is always money on the line via contingency, and I don't think there are any more stupid moves by us Am's than when there is a purse on the line. If you want more $'s for Ex purse why not have Ex races with a purse cost more, and put that money into a purse. Isn't that where the ULGP  and ASRA purses comes from? Make all Ex races $25 more and have a purse, and make the 'shootout' $50 more and have a bigger purse..

This is club racing after all, I know there are a few guys that can and do make a living off of it, but for most of us just because you can win money at it doesnt make you a professional. Pro/Am type series yes, but professional series no. Some of the Ex need to remember you were once Am's and some/most of us Am's will be Ex one day too, and you are not more of a person for it than the rest of us that haven't made it there yet. You just started earlier.

OK That's it, let the bashing begin...
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: bel-biv on April 18, 2008, 01:54:49 PM
I have nothing to add to this discussion other than to say that...

I like to race.



That is all.

Carry on.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: d-wire on April 18, 2008, 03:13:53 PM
(quote)Why the attitude of entitlement from the EX's to the AM's. Is it that Am's haven't earned it? Am's don't work as hard or spend as much? Am's are a lower class of racer? Why the resistance to help Am's via contencgeny and purses? You can say that with money on the line Am's will do something stupid just to try to win the $'s. Maybe, I would go a step further and say the Am's that are running up front and have the chance to win a purse are more experienced and could be competitive with some Ex's. The Am's at the front probably have 2 yrs exp or so and by your own admission that is the 'typical' time to be an expert. The rest of the pack have no chance at the $'s and their inexperience shows by their finishing place. Plus there is always money on the line via contingency, and I don't think there are any more stupid moves by us Am's than when there is a purse on the line. If you want more $'s for Ex purse why not have Ex races with a purse cost more, and put that money into a purse. Isn't that where the ULGP  and ASRA purses comes from? Make all Ex races $25 more and have a purse, and make the 'shootout' $50 more and have a bigger purse..

This is club racing after all, I know there are a few guys that can and do make a living off of it, but for most of us just because you can win money at it doesnt make you a professional. Pro/Am type series yes, but professional series no. Some of the Ex need to remember you were once Am's and some/most of us Am's will be Ex one day too, and you are not more of a person for it than the rest of us that haven't made it there yet. You just started earlier.

OK That's it, let the bashing begin...
************************************************************************************************************************************

We are really beating this dead horse here Jason.   I'll try to answer some of your questions and you try to not take it personally.  In my case, there is no "attitude of entitlement".  I pit with Karl Sanders and the DOuglas Brothers and they are amatuers or were last yr. I have almost taken out Melka with money on the line...so, I'll answer that with a yes......I said from the beginning, one of very few reasons I don't like the idea .... there is already tire $ and contingency, the added pressure of purse $ isn't needed for an inexperienced rider.  You almost answer your own question.......saying that the top am's would do well in expert.  EXACTLY!  And they should and would welcome their competition.  We know they are good riders and want them in expert. 

I did maybe 6 or 7 races as an amatuer.  I ran pretty well, and could have stayed am.....but, I wanted to try and compete with the best guys at a given weekend.  The following yr, I probably would have been a big fish in a little pond.  NOw, Im a tiny little guppie....in an ocean..LOL.   Which is reason #2 I like the idea of keeping the $ in expert.  It makes guys WANT to get there and compete.  It makes the show better and takes the added pressure of the $ off the riders that are learning so much. Every yr there are those guys that are am and everyone knows they would be up front in expert.  I don't like the idea of rewarding that attitude.  THats it.  Its not personal. I think its healthy for the sport for guys that aren't super fast to feel like they can enter races as an amatuer and not get run over by really fast guys.  Track day guys.  Entry level racing.

As far as paying more entry fees for expert......maybe an idea, but I think I spent 6 figures racing last year.  I wanted to get faster and compete as much as possible.  3 or 4 sets of tires a weekend.....$22 a gallon rocket fuel....Douglas bros won all the amatuer stuff on my takeoffs and pump gas.   I don't know that we need higher entry fees if we want to keep riders in the sport. 


SO, I think having the $ in expert is going to make Jason and Quick want to go expert and compete as soon as they feel ready.....I think that is healthy for the sport and welcome your competition.  You somehow view that as an "attitude". Its just a different perspective from someone who has been in your shoes and mine.  We need more amatuer riders and need to find a way for the fast guys to afford the sport more than a few yrs.

I RESPECT ANYONE WHO HAS THE BALLS TO RACE A MOTORCYCLE.......CONSIDER THEM MY BROTHERS.

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: fatboy122 on April 18, 2008, 04:21:56 PM
I rode a few FL region races last year as an AM..i dont recall myself or my brother complaining one time about there not being a Am UNLGP race..i fully understand why Henry runs his show the way he does..i wasnt always happy about not having a chance to race for the cash but i understood..whether a purse is paid in the AM ranks or not its still really expensive to race and i probably would never had noticed the extra 100 bucks anyway..i made more money selling my Dunlop certs to Dwire and Robby last year than i did by winning races and i think i won roughly 25 or 30..so IMO keep the cash in the expert ranks..when the AM get good enough to move to expert then they will have a chance of cashing in against real competition like Dwire, Melka, and the rest of the guys that run consistently in the top 5..
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: d-wire on April 18, 2008, 05:11:07 PM
Love that attitude fatboy.  I know you have the skills and will prove yourself.  You know Im looking forward to it.  And that attitude is what you need to beat the guys that are just a little bit infront.

A mid pack am wanting to be a top 5 guy......a winning am wanting to get to expert and earn some of the $ and show those guys whats up.  You'll see that anyone who is great at any sport.....spend little time patting themselves on the back, and lots of time shooting for those just a little faster/better.  Jordan always wanted the ball with the game on the line.  Fatboy wants the opportunity.  No "attitude of entitlement" from him. I want to raise the level of my racing to be able to ride with the guys that are faster than me......and I WANT IT BAD. Please don't take what Ive said here, and exaggerate it.......like I want every rider to bump this week.   :biggrin: 

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: vnvbandit on April 18, 2008, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: fatboy122 on April 18, 2008, 10:08:56 AM
Sean, Greg and Henry..you guys are mean :wah:

Nah.......... All 3 are just angels! ::) Well, 2 out of 3 anyway!  ::)


OBTW  want $$$$ go expert. I like the way Florida does it. We end up with a great weekend of racing with the grand finale.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 18, 2008, 06:45:21 PM
I've got an idea! Sounds like Jason has all the answers. Maybe he should try his hand at promoting, since he just can't seem to make the advancement to expert? :whine:

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ahastings on April 18, 2008, 07:54:26 PM
Here is one reason I think people get out of the sport after they go expert, which is my example and why I agree with Greg and D. My Am year I was running up front and raking in the contingency and purse money-life was good. I went expert the next year and spent the year going just as fast and even faster then the year before and not winning anything. It took untill my 3rd year as an expert to start winning a decent amount of contingency again. The current system in my opinion encourages people to stay Am as long as possible.
  Take  Mr.Quick for example, he is well within the rules to run Am. But if there wasn't money to be won there do you think he would be there.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 18, 2008, 08:06:18 PM
HD, It is your pond in FL and you can run it the way you want. You talk down to me as an AM and that I will take offense at. You act like I don't want to be and expert or that I dont think I am good enough to be one. I dont make the rules of who is a expert or not. If they put me in the expert class I would welcome it, and the competition there. I'm willing to suit it up and compete against any expert out there, win or lose. The way you are acting now and from your very first post is part of the attitude I was talking about.

I also see the point that d-wire, MELK-MAN etc are getting at. I just dont agree that there should be nothing available as a reward to an amature. I think the system that is in place now is pretty far IMO. You all act like I'm afraid to the experts or something, and that just isn't true.. Maybe I'm taking it personl, but I dont think so. I never said I have all the answers, but I also dont see anyone else putting any idea's out. Its the staus quo no need to try anything new and resist change. Yes it is a dead horse, and I'm preaching to the choir here, as I'm in the minority here I guess.

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 18, 2008, 09:40:04 PM
Jerry McGuire reverse quote...i was done with Jason at "hello".. You simply don't grasp the amature concept..  :cheers:
not a problem. Just a diff of opinion i guess. Being an Ex racer that has supported CCS racing for over 5 years, I simply would rather see the $$ go the racers that support racing year in-year out moreso than riders that are flash in the pan 1-2 year guys/gals that want a few extra $ for a race they may or may not be in 2 years later. the front experts have been racing for AWILE.. AM racer? maybe 1 year for most . NOW do you see our bitch?
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: quicktoy on April 19, 2008, 05:49:54 AM
Quote from: ahastings on April 18, 2008, 07:54:26 PM
  Take  Mr.Quick for example, he is well within the rules to run Am. But if there wasn't money to be won there do you think he would be there.
Whats going on Arnie? get that tranny fixed yet?  OMG I rode Jimmy's 1098R yesterday..What a monster that is. LOL
Well theres actually another reason I held back and that is, I had a bad wreck years ago and had brain hemorhaging on both sides of my brain and doctors told me if I hit my head hard I could die, so I wanted to ramp up and really get up to speed my first season back
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 19, 2008, 09:47:14 AM
Jason, one more and hopefully my final suggestion for you. Send a letter to CCS in Texas requesting to move to expert. I'm sure after 3 years of running amateur, your race history should be good enough for them to advance you  :cheers:.

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 20, 2008, 10:54:08 AM
Quote from: hdpromos on April 19, 2008, 09:47:14 AM
Jason, one more and hopefully my final suggestion for you. Send a letter to CCS in Texas requesting to move to expert. I'm sure after 3 years of running amateur, your race history should be good enough for them to advance you  :cheers:.

HD

Well, I will say thanks for the advise, sounds like a good idea.. but for clarification its only been two years not three..  After this comming summit Point weekend if I do well I will take your advise and see. I mean, I dont want to be a cherry picking sandbagger and be raking in too much contengencys and purses and have everyone think I staying  an Am for the paydays every weekend.

At least this time in your post you weren't an complete self righteous pompus j@ck@$$...

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 20, 2008, 12:51:03 PM
Oh my, just when I thought you and I were making-up :kissy:, you have to throw in that last line :wtf:!

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 20, 2008, 08:02:41 PM
Quote from: hdpromos on April 20, 2008, 12:51:03 PM
Oh my, just when I thought you and I were making-up :kissy:, you have to throw in that last line :wtf:!

HD

Yeah, I thought about putting it in or not.. but I figured why not, right... I wasn't supposed to take your posts personal, so I figured you wouldn't take it personal either right.. I mean it was a complement and all.

I will offer a appology tho.. it was a bit harsh. Hope no hard feelings!

We can agree to dissagree and all get along, right?

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 20, 2008, 08:15:25 PM
Quote from: LilJayRR on April 20, 2008, 08:02:41 PM
Yeah, I thought about putting it in or not.. but I figured why not, right... I wasn't supposed to take your posts personal, so I figured you wouldn't take it personal either right.. I mean it was a complement and all.

I will offer a appology tho.. it was a bit harsh. Hope no hard feelings!

We can agree to dissagree and all get along, right?



No apology needed, no hard feelings. We're just fine :thumb:.

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: fatboy122 on April 21, 2008, 11:31:22 AM
Jason..here is another way of looking at this..most of the top six or seven experts on a given weekend run faster lap times than the winning amatuers..i dont think its fair that a winning amatuer, who is actually slower than say the guy that finished 7th in the same class as an expert makes more money than the expert..yeah the AM won there race but the expert had more competition and actually rode faster..im sure thats one reason cash is very seldom paid to winning AM riders..that would definitely make guys want to stay AM and cherry pick..and if they did start paying bigger purses to AM then the payout for experts should be tripled and we all know thats not going happen any time soon..
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ahastings on April 21, 2008, 12:20:05 PM
Quote from: quicktoy on April 19, 2008, 05:49:54 AM
Whats going on Arnie? get that tranny fixed yet?  OMG I rode Jimmy's 1098R yesterday..What a monster that is. LOL
Well theres actually another reason I held back and that is, I had a bad wreck years ago and had brain hemorhaging on both sides of my brain and doctors told me if I hit my head hard I could die, so I wanted to ramp up and really get up to speed my first season back
got it fixed. raced wera in the rain at summit this weekend. I wasn't knocking you for running Am. I would do the same in your position. That 1098r would be sweet to ride I am sure.
I think what would be better for ccs unltd gp if they still want to pay a purse to ams. it shouldn't be the same as the experts. like fatboy122 said above it is a lot more work to finish top 5 expert then it is to win an am. race. Maybe they should pay just top 5 am. and top 15 expert, that would be more equitable. 75% of the am. riders don't even stay in the sport long enough to go expert, and a lot quit once they do.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 21, 2008, 02:52:11 PM
Quote from: fatboy122 on April 21, 2008, 11:31:22 AM
Jason..here is another way of looking at this..most of the top six or seven experts on a given weekend run faster lap times than the winning amatuers..i dont think its fair that a winning amatuer, who is actually slower than say the guy that finished 7th in the same class as an expert makes more money than the expert..yeah the AM won there race but the expert had more competition and actually rode faster..im sure thats one reason cash is very seldom paid to winning AM riders..that would definitely make guys want to stay AM and cherry pick..and if they did start paying bigger purses to AM then the payout for experts should be tripled and we all know thats not going happen any time soon..

I knnow exactly what you are saying, but you missed my point. I'm not saying Am's need more money. Currently Am's do have a race ULGP (in most regions) that has a purse, and they can win contengency etc. in other classes. Its not as much as Ex can recieve, and I'm not saying it should be more etc... What I was saying is that what is available currently to Am's should not be taken away just to give it to the Ex. Thats it, nothing more...
The reason given was Ex spend more $'s and should have more $'s to win, and that Am's $'s should goto increasing the amount of $'s (purse and contengency) that Ex's could win, and Am's should not have any available.

My opinion is if Ex's want/need more $'s available to win it should come from other sources. ie Sponsers, higher entry fees (like ASRA and ULGP have) or some other way, and not to take it from the small amount Am's have available to them now.

Cherry picking, sandbagging etc, will happen no matter what. People like to win, if they know they can't win by going to expert they will hold off as long as possible if winning is all that matters to them. They also get a benifit of some $'s which I'm sure could encourage staying AM as long as possible, which if it seems to be the case then CCS should look into moving them to expert.

Everyone keeps turning what I am saying into "Am's should have MORE $'s.." and that is not the point I am trying (however misserable I might be at it) to make. I personaly think the current system is pretty fair, and most Am's IMO want to improve/get faster and advance to Ex staus. In rare circumstances I'm sure the payout's can encourage a few to stay Am, but even those that are winning the $'s I would bet would take the advancement to Ex status whenever CCS deams it nessesary.

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 21, 2008, 11:44:31 PM
.. ohmygod....
Jason, i don't see the posts that were questioning your thoughts/views that AMs should get  MORE money. I never called you out on that, just the fact you are dead set on CCS not taking away your money for earning the same cash the same finish the experts get. Bear in mind that it in most cases would be impossible to finish in the same position in EX as AM without spending WAY more $$ to get, and having spent way more time on the track (and $$)  that same finishing position. In other words, to finish 2nd in the AM class is MUCH easier and cheaper than finishing 2nd in the ULGP in EX class. Period. Seriously better riders (not that AMs wont be at that level soon enough..), better set up bikes, spending more on tires to go those extra seconds per lap faster that unless your have god given talent, you have to have to run with the big boys. Doubt you would argue with that..
So.. without the big money truck coming in, myself and others simply don't see it fair the AM riders get the same purse as the EX for finishing in the same position. Your opinion is your own and I respect it, just like you said earlier to HD..guess we agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hamurobby on April 22, 2008, 12:42:43 AM
Quote from: hdpromos on April 19, 2008, 09:47:14 AM
Jason, one more and hopefully my final suggestion for you. Send a letter to CCS in Texas requesting to move to expert. I'm sure after 3 years of running amateur, your race history should be good enough for them to advance you  :cheers:.

HD

Theres an idea, just write a letter and ask to be moved up, just last year I saw a guy, in as little as 6 weekends, move to expert and quit cherry picking the slow guys, he got a lot of hand shakes from guys who were thankful for it, and some respect as well.   8)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 22, 2008, 11:17:15 AM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on April 21, 2008, 11:44:31 PM
.. ohmygod....
Jason, i don't see the posts that were questioning your thoughts/views that AMs should get  MORE money. I never called you out on that, just the fact you are dead set on CCS not taking away your money for earning the same cash the same finish the experts get. Bear in mind that it in most cases would be impossible to finish in the same position in EX as AM without spending WAY more $$ to get, and having spent way more time on the track (and $$)  that same finishing position. In other words, to finish 2nd in the AM class is MUCH easier and cheaper than finishing 2nd in the ULGP in EX class. Period. Seriously better riders (not that AMs wont be at that level soon enough..), better set up bikes, spending more on tires to go those extra seconds per lap faster that unless your have god given talent, you have to have to run with the big boys. Doubt you would argue with that..
So.. without the big money truck coming in, myself and others simply don't see it fair the AM riders get the same purse as the EX for finishing in the same position. Your opinion is your own and I respect it, just like you said earlier to HD..guess we agree to disagree.

At least you understand what I am trying to get at. My other point was if ex's want/need more $'s figure out away to do it.  In FL Am's dont even have a chance at a purse so the same pay day POV doesnt matter. Ex also make more than Am's by contengency $'s too.. so Ex's already to get a better payday for the same finishing possitions as the Am's.
In the current system Ex's already get more $'s (purse and contengency) for the same finishing possition as Am's in a race. Your Ex's spend more so they deserve more for similar finishing possitions as Am's is already in place. Ex's spend more, Ex's win more $'s... Am's aren't as good as Ex's, and Am's dont win as much $'s compared to Ex's.


Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ahastings on April 22, 2008, 11:53:52 AM
One thing you might be forgetting Jason, we know where you are coming from as we were all AM once. I would like to see roadracing be more like motocross which is my background. The am. and novice classes were for trophies and the expert classes were for cash based on the number of entries and no trophies.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on April 22, 2008, 12:05:51 PM
Quote from: ahastings on April 22, 2008, 11:53:52 AM
One thing you might be forgetting Jason, we know where you are coming from as we were all AM once. I would like to see roadracing be more like motocross which is my background. The am. and novice classes were for trophies and the expert classes were for cash based on the number of entries and no trophies.

.. we need a "return for deposit" for plaques and trophies, much like pop bottles back in the day (man, am i giving away my age or what). Say 50c per,  I would be RICH!!!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 22, 2008, 12:12:01 PM
I think A&J does have something like that for your old trophy's/plaques...

If you older gentlemen needs something to do with all that wood you got... :-)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 22, 2008, 12:23:35 PM
Quote from: ahastings on April 22, 2008, 11:53:52 AM
One thing you might be forgetting Jason, we know where you are coming from as we were all AM once. I would like to see roadracing be more like motocross which is my background. The am. and novice classes were for trophies and the expert classes were for cash based on the number of entries and no trophies.

Yeah, that is what I dont get maybe. As Am's I'm sure no one refused any $'s they won, but as Ex's they are opposed to Am's winning $'s...

The motorcross way of things might be a better system, I dont know as I have no experience with it. I do know they seem to have tons more people at the events I have been too. Which was only at the local motox track back in KS.

You can't make everyone happy all of the time.

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 22, 2008, 12:26:55 PM
It looks to me like we're back to square one here. Jason's still singing the same old song :banghead:!

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Super Dave on April 22, 2008, 02:19:51 PM
Let's use MX tires in ULGP. 

Henry, you've led the way with the muffler thing.   :cheers: 

Might be the next big thing.  Macau would be all over it...LOL!   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 22, 2008, 03:18:50 PM
Back to square one... I didn't know we made it to square two...
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 22, 2008, 03:35:59 PM
Like I said :banghead:! Hurry up and get that letter into CCS :ahhh:

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ScubaSteve on April 23, 2008, 11:10:24 AM
Quote from: ahastings on April 22, 2008, 11:53:52 AM
One thing you might be forgetting Jason, we know where you are coming from as we were all AM once. I would like to see roadracing be more like motocross which is my background. The am. and novice classes were for trophies and the expert classes were for cash based on the number of entries and no trophies.

Exactly! I was a motocrosser also. In Florida they would give you the option cash or trophy.

AM's shouldn't get paid!! You'll understand when you go EX.

Man i have to start checking out this board more often. Oh all the FL guys are Aholes not just HD :biggrin:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ScubaSteve on April 23, 2008, 11:12:50 AM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on April 17, 2008, 01:35:39 PM

Like Dwire said, the ULGP expert event in FL is a showcase.. best talent, on the best bikes they can get on the track.

hmmm does that count when I raced the SV in it
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MWT Racing 254 on April 23, 2008, 02:24:49 PM
I won the Am purse at CMP for the Unl GP race...$200 whole dollars...
My costs:
Fuel- RV $500, Bikes- $100
Tools- like $50
Tires- 2 sets each bike- $1376
Bikes- Ducati 1098S with extras- $24000, freshin up 2005 GSXR 1k- $650
Food- $400 (I eat ALOT!)
Equipment- new leathers (crashed the s#it out of my old ones) $1500
Entry fees- like $400 plus gate fee
Total- $28,976 out of MY pocket, by MY choice...
Winnings- $200
Net- -$28,776 boy this racing thing is good business!
And your whining about AM's taking YOUR purse, I dare you to beat my yearly race budget for CCS/GNCC- ATV and Bike/ AGP for a 3 rider team...all to have some fun! Because only about 10 to 15% of the guys out there actually make enough money to break even, let alone make money at this...Melk-man I saw your ur set up, nice, hope you make money at this stuff, if not I hope your at least enjoying yourself, not knocking any experts out there, I was a Pro motocrosser/gncc/enduro racer for 12 years and new to roadracing, I had great sponsors that help offset my costs, and actually made money at it for 2 years...bottom line, this sport is expensive, most love it so much we ignore the costs or choose to rationalize them somehow...but to be so arrogent to state that AM's don't deserve any $ for their efforts is BS, without the AM's out their trying to become experts, there simply would not be a series for you experts to run! So appreciate the AM's they are the reason these series exist! Look at the attendance numbers guys!

Dennis CCS AM # 254
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 23, 2008, 04:04:39 PM
Dennis. Your words are spoken like a true amateur in every sense of the word :thumb:! Sounds like you've been at that classification a while and plan on being there for a while longer :jerkoff:

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on April 23, 2008, 04:37:57 PM
I am amazed at the number of AM's that have multiple bikes.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: honda60071 on April 23, 2008, 07:41:55 PM
between tires and gas I can only afford one!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: djduc748l on April 24, 2008, 08:21:24 AM
Tell you what HD, being my next race at Summit will be only my 6th or 7th race weekend ever, If I do well, and fully expect to, i will write CCS requesting to get bumped to Expert based on my current performance index and race experience in off road events, so i can come join the almighty Experts in your quest for fame and fortune!!! LOL, looks like my dirt bike skills are finally gonna get put to use! What classes do you run HD? I'll go build a couple more bikes so we can "hang" out...Just kidding, don't get your panties in a bunch, I'm not into trash talking, I ride and race for fun, and good clean, safe competition...after breaking my back, and right foot to pieces, I feel lucky to be riding at all...Its a sport we all love and are all passionate about, lets help it grow, which someone earlier said, it needs more outside sponsorship from companies like mine, I help sponsor 2 local off road series with payouts and trophys for kids...as they ARE the future of our sport...so step up, and go talk to business owners and get them infected with our sport! Invite them to a track day with YOU, get them involved, and you'll be amazed at the results!
HD, I wish you a successful, safe season, and if all goes well, I'll hopefully see you at a starting line soon...
Maybe my company (Teterboro R.A.M.S. LLC) and a few of my sponsors will pony up a CASH purse for a select "EXPERT"  race at Summit Point's Festival of Speed...let me contact CCS and get the details!

xoxo
Dennis
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: djduc748l on April 24, 2008, 08:31:30 AM
Read my post on Rules and Reg's...talk is cheap...actions get r done!
Personally HD, I hope you ride a Supertwin based on your initials, my sponsor will probably want that class with their name on it, as do I...
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Garywc on April 24, 2008, 08:41:46 AM
I wanna know who these people are who think they are going to make a living club racing
because they sure as shit cant do math
i don't think the extra amateur purse money is going to help

and Dennis I think that HD is his initials not the bike he rides
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 24, 2008, 08:54:39 AM
Dennis, your experience in professional racing in other forms of this sport have obviously helped you in road racing. Your results prove it and I would think that you will make a fine expert next year. I think you should finish this year as amateur, try to win the regional and national championships and go expert next year. I think our only "beef" is about paying amateurs. Good luck to ya.

HD

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: fatboy122 on April 24, 2008, 01:04:11 PM
HD is the Fl roadracing series promoter..he doesnt race anymore but was pretty good back in the day..He knows what he's talking about even if striking a nerve in the process..on another note, i dont like hearing a bunch of crying about amatuer purse money from guys with multiple bikes, huge trailers, and stacks of new tires laying around..last year i ran the cheapest season possible while winning a couple races along the way and didnt bitch about purse money one time..i wish some would race for the love of the sport..
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ScubaSteve on April 24, 2008, 01:12:38 PM
Quote from: fatboy122 on April 24, 2008, 01:04:11 PM
HD is the Fl roadracing series promoter..he doesnt race anymore but was pretty good back in the day..He knows what he's talking about even if striking a nerve in the process..on another note, i dont like hearing a bunch of crying about amatuer purse money from guys with multiple bikes, huge trailers, and stacks of new tires laying around..last year i ran the cheapest season possible while winning a couple races along the way and didnt bitch about purse money one time..i wish some would race for the love of the sport..

Couldn't agree more! Hell I always had just 1 bike except for 2 weekends
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: fatboy122 on April 24, 2008, 01:36:06 PM
Quote from: ScubaSteve on April 24, 2008, 01:12:38 PM
Couldn't agree more! Hell I always had just 1 bike except for 2 weekends
ive heard from plenty of reliable sources that you where pretty good too Steve..
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ScubaSteve on April 24, 2008, 01:54:23 PM
Quote from: fatboy122 on April 24, 2008, 01:36:06 PM
ive heard from plenty of reliable sources that you where pretty good too Steve..

Thanks. I just rode as fast as i could on what I had. I'm no Melka or D-wire or HD...lol
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 24, 2008, 02:16:19 PM
Scuba, you are still one bad dude!

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on April 24, 2008, 09:22:37 PM
Quote from: hdpromos on April 23, 2008, 04:04:39 PM
Dennis. Your words are spoken like a true amateur in every sense of the word :thumb:! Sounds like you've been at that classification a while and plan on being there for a while longer :jerkoff:

HD

Come on now HD, everyone can be living in the AM ranks can they ? LOL

When I got to HPT they asked me if I had a letter I wanted to turn in!  :lmao: :banghead:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hdpromos on April 24, 2008, 09:41:21 PM
Jason, how bout I take Dennis's name out of my quote above and incert your name, as it fits you like a "fine Italian shoe" :cheers:!

HD
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: weggieman on April 24, 2008, 11:48:36 PM
You people kill me. How much payout for what? Club level roadracing?It's a freaking hobby boys.

What's the purse of an AMA Pro superbike race? Right now it's not enough to pay the tire bill for a weekend. AND...DMG is talking NO PURSE for Superbike in '09. No fucking purse for AMA PRO Superbike.....WTF is that?

SO, quit bitching or take your toys and stay home. You are not pros and do not deserve purses......especially amateurs! Go ahead flame away.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Chad Wolfe on April 24, 2008, 11:53:27 PM
There should be a purse for reading this entire thread.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: weggieman on April 24, 2008, 11:56:12 PM
 :pop:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: d-wire on April 25, 2008, 05:54:40 AM
there should be a purse for locking this thread...lol
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hamurobby on April 25, 2008, 09:07:44 AM
Quote from: weggieman on April 24, 2008, 11:48:36 PM
AND...DMG is talking NO PURSE for Superbike in '09. No fucking purse for AMA PRO Superbike.....WTF is that?
ASRA?  ::)
Thats rediculous, why do they need to get paid, they only do it for the love of the sport, they should pay to just be able to ride in the series and have all the glory  :kicknuts:

:lmao:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: bel-biv on April 25, 2008, 09:30:15 AM
Welcome to the "Durrani wheel" thread of the CCS board.

Christ.....


For the record, I don't give 2 shits about potential payouts
Any winnings will have a microscopic impact on my overall racing budget - which is itself microscopic compared to many of you
I just love racing, competing and winning (hopefully)

See you experts out there next season

Now, everyone stop your bitching and lets go racing
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hamurobby on April 25, 2008, 10:32:37 AM
Quote from: bel-biv on April 25, 2008, 09:30:15 AM
Welcome to the "Durrani wheel" thread of the CCS board.

Christ.....


For the record, I don't give 2 shits about potential payouts
Any winnings will have a microscopic impact on my overall racing budget - which is itself microscopic compared to many of you
I just love racing, competing and winning (hopefully)

See you experts out there next season

Now, everyone stop your bitching and lets go racing

Im glad we are all on here bs ing  (http://www.smileyhq.com/smilies/party0028.gif)
anything on this board is more interesting than anything at work!

no matter how large or small a budget any of us have, usually we are spending "all of it" +, to go racing.  (http://www.smileyhq.com/smilies/party0022.gif)

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MWT Racing 254 on April 28, 2008, 10:45:22 AM
Thanks HD, I'll see how it goes at Summit in late May, I don't like racing if its gonna be a runaway, I enjoy being competitive, don't get me wrong, winning is great, but some races have been runaways and others I rode as hard as I needed to win, with something left in reserve...I prefer leaving it all on the track and lose (Daytona Supertwins race) than runaway with them...plus, riding with the expert class will only help me get faster...I do this stuff for me, I love good competition...I would love to be able to get into the top ten with the experts someday, that for me would be an accomplishment.
Just got back from Round 5 of the GNCC in TN, my girl wrecked pretty bad, but still pushed on to finish, she's holding down 4th in points so far! I will be contacting CCS this week about supporting a race at Summit...I'll post the results of our talks here...
See you at the races!

Dennis
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: quicktoy on May 03, 2008, 06:40:33 AM
wow, this thread will be my legacy and the ends dont reflect the means.  Was just asking a simple question and look at the battle zone LOL
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: naya the dingo on May 06, 2008, 03:24:13 AM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on April 16, 2008, 07:25:53 PM
i think its gay that AM riders get paid..

Damn, I just lost a little respect for you.  It costs me a hell of a lot of money to race too, and I bet I make a lot less $ than you.  Get a little faster and get an AMA ride and stop whining.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ScubaSteve on May 06, 2008, 09:51:05 AM
Quote from: naya the dingo on May 06, 2008, 03:24:13 AM
Damn, I just lost a little respect for you.  It costs me a hell of a lot of money to race too, and I bet I make a lot less $ than you.  Get a little faster and get an AMA ride and stop whining.

He's to old for a AMA ride
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on May 06, 2008, 10:48:06 AM
thanks for reminding me Steve :wah:.. and CLEARLY the guy 2 posts up did not read the entire thread. I just love guys that scan the first few posts then throw their 2c in.. :jerkoff:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Bappe on May 06, 2008, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: LilJayRR on April 17, 2008, 12:24:34 PM
Yeah AM's should have to pay double just to enter races, and that money should be given to all the experts just for showing up on the grids and allowing the AM's to behold thier greatness and inhale thier exhaust fumes!

Don't reward them for anything, they are NOTHING! and dont amount to ANYTHING!

Nice attidude of entitlement! Its nice to see what some of you really think about us AM's.... And FYI this AM does sit out races when there is no $'s on the line. I'll enter every UL GP that has purse $'s, no purse $'s I wont enter. I dont race 'no matter what', If you want more expert purse payout figure out a way to get more sponsers involved in the sport, keep more expert class racers active in the sport, while encouraging more new racers to the sport. Promot the sport, get more pople to comeout and watch. What is the average length of a club racers carrer? 3 yrs or so? Why? Cost plain and simple, and you want to take away what little purses there are for AM's...

That attidude I bet will surely stimulate the sport.

I'm with ya man..

Yeah, lets see I'm an AM new to the sport, I have all the money in the world to come out and race all these races jsut to be lucky enough to get a block of wood....thats awesome, makes me feel special...look at me I just won a block of wood and it only cost me like 2 grand...

Let me ask you "experts" why you feel you should get pay outs and AM shouldn't?  What hard work and money do you put into your racing that is any different then us AM's?  Maybe there is something I missed?  We have to start somewhere, just like I'm sure most EX's did...whats funny is I bet I could hang with most of you so called experts.. :)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: naya the dingo on May 06, 2008, 12:12:31 PM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on May 06, 2008, 10:48:06 AM
thanks for reminding me Steve :wah:.. and CLEARLY the guy 2 posts up did not read the entire thread. I just love guys that scan the first few posts then throw their 2c in.. :jerkoff:

Great response dude, I read a quite a bit of your rambling bullshit before I posted.  This is my first year racing, and I hope to continue for years to come.  Just so you know I'm not some "random" asshole posting anonymously, I pitted directly across from you at CMP, I'm the rather large person with one thumb on the 1000RR.  I just finished my 2nd race event this past weekend at Summit, and to my surprise, finished 3rd in Unlimited Supersport.  If I can keep picking up speed, I should be able to win a couple of bucks to help pay for gas and tires, etc.  I would never in a million years stay an AM and cherry pick if I was good enough to be in the expert class.  The best way I know of to get faster, is to race against faster people.

The only point that anyone made that I would deem valid, would be that the money could possibly make an inexperienced racer take chances and ride over their head to finish in the money; however my experience has been, people who ride like assholes and make bonehead moves, will do so regardless of whether there is money involved or not.  I will apologize for coming off as a dick, because that is the complete opposite of who I am.  I am new, and I don't have many posts, but I am also a person who does have an opinion.  I just strongly disagree.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: JBraun on May 06, 2008, 12:27:12 PM
Everyone listen up, the newbies are holding court, and have all the answers.

Did it ever occur to any of you rookies that every expert has been in your shoes, and you've never been in theirs?
Stick around a few years, you'll understand...
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: klebs01 on May 06, 2008, 01:00:15 PM
This is my second year racing as an AM ( did two weekends last year). I don't understand how these AM expect to get paid.  Generally in sports, taking money would violate amateur status.  Even for getting that, why should someone get paid to be the winner of a race when they aren't even close to the fastest in that class that day.  The whole point of the AM class is to provide a place to learn, that's it.  If you feel the need to race for money, then find a way to move up.  Once you can compete with the fastest guys then you deserve to take the money.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on May 06, 2008, 01:26:08 PM
 
Quote from: JBraun on May 06, 2008, 12:27:12 PM

Did it ever occur to any of you rookies that every expert has been in your shoes, and you've never been in theirs?
Stick around a few years, you'll understand...
exactly, this argument requires a perspective that ams dont yet have... maybe the question to all the ams w/ their panties in a bunch should be why should they get cash purse money in addition to contingency? why shouldn't the experts who are shelling out serious cash to be competitive and have a higher level of skill/speed get all the purse money? all you ams who think an extra 100 or 200 bucks a weekend makes racing any easier are kidding yourself. for example i spent as much on tires (for hpt) as I won in unlgp for my entire am season (and i podiumed almost every race).
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on May 06, 2008, 01:35:45 PM
Quote from: Bappe on May 06, 2008, 11:22:14 AM
...whats funny is I bet I could hang with most of you so called experts.. :)

Time to bump up then and start earning some "serious" cash!  Cherrypicker!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ScubaSteve on May 06, 2008, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: Bappe on May 06, 2008, 11:22:14 AM
...whats funny is I bet I could hang with most of you so called experts.. :)

Thats what they all say till they hit the EX ranks. Since your so confident maybe you should bump up and show Exs whats up.

You Am's will understand when you get to our shoes.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: naya the dingo on May 06, 2008, 01:58:48 PM
Quote from: sobottka on May 06, 2008, 01:26:08 PM
exactly, this argument requires a perspective that ams dont yet have... maybe the question to all the ams w/ their panties in a bunch should be why should they get cash purse money in addition to contingency? why shouldn't the experts who are shelling out serious cash to be competitive and have a higher level of skill/speed get all the purse money? all you ams who think an extra 100 or 200 bucks a weekend makes racing any easier are kidding yourself. for example i spent as much on tires (for hpt) as I won in unlgp for my entire am season (and i podiumed almost every race).

Point taken.  By that same token, what would the extra $100 to $200 do for you?  Little to nothing.  I by no means know everything, but it is the way it is, and if I, by some great miracle, win an UnlGP race, the $200 would come in mighty handy.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on May 06, 2008, 03:32:07 PM
Quote from: naya the dingo on May 06, 2008, 01:58:48 PM
Point taken.  By that same token, what would the extra $100 to $200 do for you?  Little to nothing.  I by no means know everything, but it is the way it is, and if I, by some great miracle, win an UnlGP race, the $200 would come in mighty handy.
it would make my $2200.00 weekend $2000.00  ...."its the principal smokey" 
Quote from: Bappe on May 06, 2008, 11:22:14 AM


Let me ask you "experts" why you feel you should get pay outs and AM shouldn't?  What hard work and money do you put into your racing that is any different then us AM's?  Maybe there is something I missed? 
because we (generally) spend more, risk more, have more skill, have more speed, better racing and take this game a little more seriously.
yes you missed somthing ... expert racing
Quote from: Bappe on May 06, 2008, 11:22:14 AM
whats funny is I bet I could hang with most of you so called experts.. :)
i doubt it
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: 104fahl on May 06, 2008, 04:55:34 PM
+1   :biggrin:

Quote from: klebs01 on May 06, 2008, 01:00:15 PM
This is my second year racing as an AM ( did two weekends last year). I don't understand how these AM expect to get paid.  Generally in sports, taking money would violate amateur status.  Even for getting that, why should someone get paid to be the winner of a race when they aren't even close to the fastest in that class that day.  The whole point of the AM class is to provide a place to learn, that's it.  If you feel the need to race for money, then find a way to move up.  Once you can compete with the fastest guys then you deserve to take the money.

   
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Bappe on May 06, 2008, 05:08:21 PM
Quote from: ScubaSteve on May 06, 2008, 01:50:32 PM
Thats what they all say till they hit the EX ranks. Since your so confident maybe you should bump up and show Exs whats up.

You Am's will understand when you get to our shoes.

oK,  I'm game. :)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on May 06, 2008, 07:00:13 PM
Quote from: klebs01 on May 06, 2008, 01:00:15 PM
This is my second year racing as an AM ( did two weekends last year). I don't understand how these AM expect to get paid.  Generally in sports, taking money would violate amateur status.  Even for getting that, why should someone get paid to be the winner of a race when they aren't even close to the fastest in that class that day.  The whole point of the AM class is to provide a place to learn, that's it.  If you feel the need to race for money, then find a way to move up.  Once you can compete with the fastest guys then you deserve to take the money.

For all you jumping in late in the game on this thread, this post sums up what was said with many more words early on. AM RIDERS SHOULD NOT BE PAID CASH!. You have contingency if you finish in the top 5.. WHY do you need $$? Call me an asshole.. For the guy that pitted "across from me at CMP" .. i guess 4 days at that track giving you endless advice for free, offering help with everything from pressures, to take off advice, etc" goes out the window when i tell someone like you racing nearly your first race you dont deserve CASH money for wins. You are so soon to forget. Gotta love it.. See you in five years.. maybe.


Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: extrakt0r on May 06, 2008, 08:15:07 PM
Quote from: Bappe on May 06, 2008, 05:08:21 PM
oK,  I'm game. :)

Dude, you were running 55's at HPT. If you raced with the EX's you would get lapped before the end of a GT Race...Play nice Aaron, dont make me own you next track day :)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: naya the dingo on May 06, 2008, 09:22:27 PM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on May 06, 2008, 07:00:13 PM
For all you jumping in late in the game on this thread, this post sums up what was said with many more words early on. AM RIDERS SHOULD NOT BE PAID CASH!. You have contingency if you finish in the top 5.. WHY do you need $$? Call me an asshole.. For the guy that pitted "across from me at CMP" .. i guess 4 days at that track giving you endless advice for free, offering help with everything from pressures, to take off advice, etc" goes out the window when i tell someone like you racing nearly your first race you dont deserve CASH money for wins. You are so soon to forget. Gotta love it.. See you in five years.. maybe.




I do appreciate the help and advice.....and I'll bite my tongue and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Gixxerblade on May 06, 2008, 10:09:44 PM
Quote from: ScubaSteve on May 06, 2008, 01:50:32 PM
Thats what they all say till they hit the EX ranks. Since your so confident maybe you should bump up and show Exs whats up.

You Am's will understand when you get to our shoes.
I am expert and can barely hang with the experts.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: kl3640 on May 06, 2008, 10:32:12 PM
Quote from: r1owner on April 17, 2008, 02:12:03 PM
I think AM's should stay at trackdays.

Scott, isn't that a yellow plate on your avatar? :)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: 104fahl on May 06, 2008, 10:52:34 PM
Quote from: kl3640 on May 06, 2008, 10:32:12 PM
Scott, isn't that a yellow plate on your avatar? :)

Looks like it to me.  :thumb:  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: kl3640 on May 06, 2008, 11:06:05 PM
From where does the purse money for the Shootout come?  Does it come from just Expert entries, all entries, or is it from the general CCS FL budget?  Because if EX entries alone are used to pay the EX purse, then AM's have no leg on which to stand.  Ditto if the purse comes from the general CCS budget, as that's HD's call and what he believes is best for the promotion of the CCS FL series.  And if the EX purse money includes $ from AM entries in to that race, then any AM's who are upset about not getting paid equally as EX's for those races should simply not enter that event - after all, we enter so many other races with no possibility of getting paid, so why should this one be any different?  I don't believe that an AM championship in that one class holds any more prestige than some of the other competitive classes, since at the end of the day it is still an AM championship, not an EX championship, and thus has limited prestige anyway!  I've never seen a yellow #1 plate, and the best that can be achieved as an AM is an overall championship in a region, which is limited and fleeting glory at best.  The bottom line is that HD does what he thinks is best to promote the series, and in his judgement, that means a larger purse for EX UNL GP.  If a guy of his brains and experience doesn't know what is required to make a series like this work, then I don't know who does.

And YES, the fast Expert does require more funds to maintain that level of performance.  A part of racing is that equipment does matter, ergo, there is more and better equipment used, which requires more maintenance.  All of that costs dough.  There are also the ancillary costs, such as the travel required to attend all of the events in defense of or chasing a title.  I know very few AM's with on-site mechanics, who have engines refreshed every few weekends, multiple bikes, comprehensive pit setups, etc.  I know very few single-digit EX's who do NOT have those expenses.  Anyone care to guess what Villa spent last year in pursuit of the FL #1?

There are very, very few people who can financially break even club racing, and even fewer still who can make an occupation out of it.  There are people who use it as their proving grounds for bigger and better things, and they spend a LOT of $ in the process.  The point is that we Amateurs aspire to be fast Experts next, not to go straight to AMA.  Fast EX aspire to #1 plates and/or AMA.  There is a level of dedication and investment required to do so that vastly outstrips that required for a simple AM class or overall championship.  If one of us earns the right to compete at that level, then we earn the right to participate in certain other events, such as UNL GP with a cash purse.  Until then, we are working to achieve that level of performance.  There is support available in the way of contingencies (BTW, ever note that contingency payouts are less for AM's than EX's?  Why is that?).  So what is the point of having a purse for AM events?  All it does is to decrease the level of competition at the elite level of club racing.  Having more $ available for the premier EX events allows those guys to have something as a goal that could actually have a material impact on their annual budget, which just might allow them to attain the title and/or next step up that they seek.  Will they break even?  Likely not.  Will they be able to defray their annual costs in a meaningful way that might help them take a championship and possibly go on to the next level?  Quite possibly.  The most it will do for us AM's is maybe help us get to EX a bit more quickly, but even that is doubtful as the bar for getting to EX is set such that a basic level of investment is all that is required, and beyond that the development of skill is the key.

And for those of you who think that the EX's are being arrogant, I don't deny that I have met some arrogant guys in the pits, but I also submit that you don't know the fastest EX's by any means.  By and large the fastest EX's (particularly those who have posted in this thread) are amongst the friendliest, most helpful bunch of riders I've ever met.  Not one of them would deny me a part in a pinch, or would decline to answer a technical question, or wouldn't offer needed advice, even on a first meeting without any previous relationship in place.  There is a very fast guy who was pitted across from me this past weekend, you all know who he is, and he came through HUGE by giving me a part to fix my brakes, which otherwise might have ended my weekend.  There was another fast EX pitted next to me, you all know who he is, who accidentally made contact with me on the way to a victory.  He was so apologetic and willing to take the blame, even though I was just as much at fault as he.  The bottom line is that I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am now without their help, and the help keeps coming, freely.  Several of them have even offered to go riding with me at a track day, to help me learn.  They are an unbelievably awesome bunch of guys on average, so those of you who accuse them of arrogance are doing so without having the slightest inkling about who they are as people.  And I'm not just talking about some quick EX's here - I'm referring to the FASTEST, most experienced guys; names that all of us here would know and respect as riders.  And yet these guys who help out a lowly, slow AM like myself, willingly, in a non-condescending manner, are what you would call "arrogant?"  You don't know these guys at all, and you owe all of them an apology, here and now.

These guys support the sport, but they also support any Amateur who is dedicated and respectful, because such AM's are the future of the sport.  They were there themselves at one time; but the point is that there is very little point to paying purses for Amateur events.  That would basically be rewarding slower riders for not being fast enough to be competitive experts.  The who point is that there are not two series, e.g., one for fast guys and one for slow guys.  There is one series, for accomplished riders, and then there is a mechanism for those of us who aspire to be part of that series.  Thus the title "Amateur."  Really, does anyone get in to this sport with the goal of only remaining an Amateur in mind?  Surely some people are not bothered by being an Amateur for 2 or 3 or more years, but neither do they have any illusions about the role they play in the success of the series.  I for one know that if I can't make EX in a reasonable time, e.g., 1-1 1/2 seasons, then I'm in the wrong sport.  Some people have shorter timeframes, others longer, but again, I doubt that anyone intends to remain an AM indefinitely, never winning races.  If they did, then they'd just be doing trackdays, which lots of people do.

If we AM's didn't have an avenue available to us for eventually being able to compete for purse money, then fine, I would agree that there should be gold at the end of the rainbow for us; however, all we have to do is get to the point where we can compete at that level, and the opportunity will be available to us.  In the meantime, if we don't like it, then all we have to do is chose not to participate in that event and instead participate in the events that don't pay anyway, and in which we have fun, which we do regardless.

In the case where an AM is fast enough to place in UNL GP but is upset that he or she isn't getting paid, then the answer is simple:  you've surely won a crapload of AM events and have a monster Perf Index, so get bumped up to EX.  At that point, you will have earned it.

And before anyone (an AM on the other side of this issue) jumps down my throat about my opinions, know that I am a (slow) Amateur who spends a lot of money to barely finish top 5, and less often than not at that.  In a dozen race weekends I have 2 3rds and 3 5ths.  Every dollar would help, but realistically it's not going to affect my ability to participate in the sport.  For example, the little bit of money I made for finishing 3rd in a recent ASRA event literally represents under 5% of my cost for participating in that event; and that's not even including non-cash costs, like bike wear & tear, etc.  I am fortunately in the position to spend some money to participate in such events; but if I was in a position where a couple of hundred purse bucks would make or break my ability to participate as an AM, where there is really no glory at the end of the road, then why would I even bother participating in this sport?  They few events in which I participate that pay purses to AM's (which only do so because they don't differentiate between EX and AM) I spend the money to enter simply for the fun and experience and to try to improve my skills; but if I didn't, then I'd just participate in the events that cost me less and allow me to get better until such time that, as an EX, I can compete in purse events.  Then I'll be glad that those purses are larger because they money is not spread around for AM events too.  The fast EX's, on the other hand, have expenses that are literally an order of magnitude more than that which is REQUIRED by an AM (not what some AM's spend, but what is REQUIRED to do well as an AM).  For an EX to be elite, he or she MUST spend serious money.  For an AM to be elite as an AM (which is kind of an oxymoron), a lot of money CAN be spend, but doesn't HAVE to be.  End of story.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on May 06, 2008, 11:06:19 PM
Yeah, those were the days.... raking in the contingency AND the $$$.... LOL!

Like Melka said... we were all AM's once!

Personally, I really don't care... I'm out there to have a good time and hopefully have a good race with some people and not get in anyone's way.

I should also say that no one mentioned I was on a Suzuki... please forgive my transgressions....
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: kl3640 on May 06, 2008, 11:34:32 PM
Quote from: r1owner on May 06, 2008, 11:06:19 PM
Yeah, those were the days.... raking in the contingency AND the $$$.... LOL!

Like Melka said... we were all AM's once!

Personally, I really don't care... I'm out there to have a good time and hopefully have a good race with some people and not get in anyone's way.

I should also say that no one mentioned I was on a Suzuki... please forgive my transgressions....

Too bad they don't pay you contingency for your coding efforts :)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on May 07, 2008, 12:25:55 AM
I'm still waiting on the dude from Westhold to get their website with laptimes up.  I'm thinking he was a little optimistic in his estimate! ;)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: backMARKr on May 07, 2008, 09:00:09 AM
Quote from: kl3640 on May 06, 2008, 11:06:05 PM
From where does...  End of story.

wow.... :err:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: naya the dingo on May 07, 2008, 10:50:15 AM
Sorry man, I tried to read your whole post but the ADD kicked in.  I pay $80 for UnlGP, I am pretty sure some of that money goes towards the payout.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: kl3640 on May 07, 2008, 10:58:07 AM
Quote from: naya the dingo on May 07, 2008, 10:50:15 AM
Sorry man, I tried to read your whole post but the ADD kicked in.  I pay $80 for UnlGP, I am pretty sure some of that money goes towards the payout.

In Summary:

1) If any of us AM's are not happy about UNL GP payouts, then don't race them, as there is really not much of a concept of "prestige" at the AM level anyway.  Race the other non-payout races for the practice, which we do ANYWAY with so many other races.  So we're not really missing out by not racing this one, if the payout situation bothers us so much.

2) The fast EX's are REQUIRED to spend WAY more dough to race at that level than any AM at a similar level within AM, so they should have more payout available to them.

3) The fastest EX's are NOT arrogant and do NOT look down their noses at the rest of us.  They are amongst the most helpful, friendliest bunch of dudes in the pits, period, so whoever accused them of arrogance doesnt' know them at all and should apologize for writing those things about them.

4) HD knows what's best for promoting a series like this, and when someone else has his experience in this sport and argues that AM payouts should equal EX payouts, then maybe I'll listen to that argument.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: kl3640 on May 07, 2008, 11:00:55 AM
Quote from: r1owner on May 07, 2008, 12:25:55 AM
I'm still waiting on the dude from Westhold to get their website with laptimes up.  I'm thinking he was a little optimistic in his estimate! ;)

I owe him a transponder report from JGP today anyway, so I'll rib him about that a little bit.  I know that they're also working on some other cool projects, including the handhelds and boot-mounted transponders for riders with multiple bikes so that they don't have to worry about swapping the transponders.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: d-wire on May 07, 2008, 03:15:27 PM
where's the "clapping "emoticon?
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Chad Wolfe on May 07, 2008, 04:20:56 PM
(http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/9656/9936xo5.gif)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Xian_13 on May 07, 2008, 04:26:39 PM
Did it really need to take 10 pages, to get the simplest point across?


XIII
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: karls on May 07, 2008, 04:38:34 PM
kl3640 - very well stated, and couldn't agree more!  As an AM I have pitted with some of the faster EX (guess you have to be pretty fast to have a #1 plate), have been given advice, loaned tools and parts, have seen and been the recipient of the generosity from these fast EX.  I also know what it takes to win AM races and have seen what it takes to win EX races.  Not even close to the same league of cost and preparation.  Keep the payouts where they belong - in the EX class with the fastest riders.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: kl3640 on May 07, 2008, 06:34:09 PM
karls, if you're the dude who won a lot @ JGP this weekend, good job.  If not, then I still appreciate your fried chicken and the invention of the pressure cooker :)

And to the other AM's who dissed the fast EX's in this thread without reading or comprehending what they were trying to communicate, I suggest that you apologize here, publicly, to them.  Disagreement is one thing, but to insult them like that when everyone elses' experiences are to the contrary is flat out wrong.

And to the EX's, PLEASE don't think that all AM's feel that you're arrogant.  Most of us really appreciate the track-mentorship that you provide, and look forward to racing at your level one of these days, so don't hold it against all of us because of a few people who don't want to understand your perspective.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: hamurobby on May 07, 2008, 09:07:12 PM
Quote from: karls on May 07, 2008, 04:38:34 PM
kl3640 - very well stated, and couldn't agree more!  As an AM I have pitted with some of the faster EX (guess you have to be pretty fast to have a #1 plate), have been given advice, loaned tools and parts, have seen and been the recipient of the generosity from these fast EX.  I also know what it takes to win AM races and have seen what it takes to win EX races.  Not even close to the same league of cost and preparation.  Keep the payouts where they belong - in the EX class with the fastest riders.

You are going to be one fast expert Karl  :biggrin: 8)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Bappe on May 10, 2008, 12:09:46 PM
Quote from: extrakt0r on May 06, 2008, 08:15:07 PM
Dude, you were running 55's at HPT. If you raced with the EX's you would get lapped before the end of a GT Race...Play nice Aaron, dont make me own you next track day :)

ahh bite me simone...bastard.  :)   you know im always up for a challenge.....;)  I'm a litte faster now, come school me oh master.   where the hell you been anyways?
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: barb_arah on May 13, 2008, 07:42:37 PM
By gay, I bet you're referring it's a happy thing.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: skipper08 on June 16, 2008, 10:29:18 AM
i cant believe that this is 10 pages long.
but anyways.....
My name is Gus
I am an Amateur
I race the FL region
some of you know me
I am a nobody in the field still

but there is some stuff i would like to know.

the same frase keeps on being said. "bc experts spend more money" how is that?? if its true.

i dont have a problem that the experts get paid and we dont, not saying that i would not mind to make some extra cash to help me out in the sesson, but if the purses money is coming out from the fees meaning (everyones fees), i dont think its fair that we are all paying the same for them to make money in that race.
i get the whole thing of the exciting race and the no exhaust restriction to make it better, but if they want to make money you have to spend money, its like betting thats all.
and yes i work to race and still is hard for me to make it. i have the support and help from my parents as they dont want me to miss out any of the races.

i think someone said that why not charge more in the entrance fees for that race and then get the purses out of there and not pay 1 through 10 but up to 5th and that would be more of a challenge there. i know all the experts are going to get mad that i said to charge more in the fees and dont pay the whole grid.

btw please leave your insults out of the tread and if you can not say a profesional opinion then dont participate.
im not insulting anyone with this post but rather trying to understand and maybe make some ppl understand certain things.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: roadracer162 on June 16, 2008, 02:58:27 PM
I must be missing something.

If you want a purse payout become an expert. You can request that.

Amateurs on big bikes just don't make sense to me. If you can ride a big bike fast then you are an expert in my eyes. If you can't ride one fast you shuldn't be on it.

If you want to win get the best equipment you can afford and then sometimes that is not enough.

There are some in the lgithweight classes spending some $60K plus on their machinery. They better beat me on my $5K machine.

I race for the love of it. Give me money or prizes for winning? I won't deny it, but I am not gonna demand it.

Mark
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on June 16, 2008, 06:27:05 PM
Quote from: skipper08 on June 16, 2008, 10:29:18 AM
i cant believe that this is 10 pages long.
but anyways.....
My name is Gus
I am an Amateur
I race the FL region
some of you know me
I am a nobody in the field still

but there is some stuff i would like to know.

the same frase keeps on being said. "bc experts spend more money" how is that?? if its true.

i dont have a problem that the experts get paid and we dont, not saying that i would not mind to make some extra cash to help me out in the sesson, but if the purses money is coming out from the fees meaning (everyones fees), i dont think its fair that we are all paying the same for them to make money in that race.
i get the whole thing of the exciting race and the no exhaust restriction to make it better, but if they want to make money you have to spend money, its like betting thats all.
and yes i work to race and still is hard for me to make it. i have the support and help from my parents as they dont want me to miss out any of the races.

i think someone said that why not charge more in the entrance fees for that race and then get the purses out of there and not pay 1 through 10 but up to 5th and that would be more of a challenge there. i know all the experts are going to get mad that i said to charge more in the fees and dont pay the whole grid.

btw please leave your insults out of the tread and if you can not say a profesional opinion then dont participate.
im not insulting anyone with this post but rather trying to understand and maybe make some ppl understand certain things.


Good post Mark.
Gus.. READ the 10 pages.. then get back to us. Most of your questions have been discussed and explained in the thread. On average, rider to rider, experts spend way more than am riders.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: kl3640 on June 16, 2008, 09:43:56 PM
Quote from: skipper08 on June 16, 2008, 10:29:18 AM
i cant believe that this is 10 pages long.
but anyways.....
My name is Gus
I am an Amateur
I race the FL region
some of you know me
I am a nobody in the field still

but there is some stuff i would like to know.

the same frase keeps on being said. "bc experts spend more money" how is that?? if its true.

As Melk-Man pointed out, your questions have been discussed in the previous 9 pages and this page of this post, so I won't go in to detail, but people generally accept as a fact that in order to be competitive (read: Podiums) in the Expert class, let alone to win a championship, a rider must invest more money in equipment, preparation, racing activities, etc, than does a rider who seeks to achieve the same results in Amateur events.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: tstruyk on June 16, 2008, 10:51:46 PM
Quote from: kl3640 on June 16, 2008, 09:43:56 PM
a rider must invest more money in equipment, preparation, racing activities, etc, than does a rider who seeks to achieve the same results in Amateur events.


I dunno... those nesba fee's are gettin pretty high!   :ahhh:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on June 16, 2008, 11:13:23 PM
oh my!  Just couldn't resist huh?
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: roadracer162 on June 17, 2008, 06:52:46 PM
I finally read it all. Now it's time to finish mowing the lawn.

Mark
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: R1Racer99 on June 17, 2008, 07:18:19 PM
Can someone save me the hour of reading and tell me if the amateurs will continue to be paid or has it been changed? I'm not really on one side or the other but I got an unexpected $75 in the mail yesterday and I'm not complaining about a free night at the bar for a 6th place.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on June 17, 2008, 07:22:50 PM
Quote from: R1Racer99 on June 17, 2008, 07:18:19 PM
Can someone save me the hour of reading and tell me if the amateurs will continue to be paid or has it been changed? I'm not really on one side or the other but I got an unexpected $75 in the mail yesterday and I'm not complaining about a free night at the bar for a 6th place.

If you're an am, it was a mistake.  You're supposed to send the check back.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Eric Kelcher on June 17, 2008, 09:54:18 PM
Scott you forgot the smiley

For races run out of the main CCS office there is a contingency purse paid to AM in stand alone CCS weekends, On ASRA weekends there are contingency purses only in the ASRA pro races.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: tstruyk on June 18, 2008, 01:31:08 AM
Quote from: r1owner on June 16, 2008, 11:13:23 PM
oh my!  Just couldn't resist huh?

yeah I've been kinda quiet lately...
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on June 18, 2008, 12:02:32 PM
Quote from: r1owner on June 17, 2008, 07:22:50 PM
If you're an am, it was a mistake.  You're supposed to send the check back.

OMG that is funny!! .. lol...
Seriously .. as Eric was indicating the $ are yours. AM's will continue getting the cash. Boo hoo..
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on June 18, 2008, 12:05:46 PM
Yeah sorry, I forgot the smiley! :)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: R1Racer99 on June 18, 2008, 11:07:32 PM
I thought you were serious but I didn't want to ask and look like an idiot :biggrin:. So is there any plan to change this for next year? Again, forgive me for not wanting to read through all of the bs to figure it out.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on June 19, 2008, 08:23:47 AM
Quote from: R1Racer99 on June 18, 2008, 11:07:32 PM
I thought you were serious but I didn't want to ask and look like an idiot :biggrin:. So is there any plan to change this for next year? Again, forgive me for not wanting to read through all of the bs to figure it out.

Sorry man! :)

I doubt they change it for next year, but I think they are probably too busy running the series right now to worry about this.

I think they usually have a rules change time period towards the end of the year where people can suggest changes and they will publish it.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: gixxerlvr on June 19, 2008, 08:47:47 AM
All of you where AM before, it'd not like you where born an expert.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on June 19, 2008, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: gixxerlvr on June 19, 2008, 08:47:47 AM
All of you where AM before, it'd not like you where born an expert.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: kl3640 on June 20, 2008, 02:03:49 AM
Quote from: gixxerlvr on June 19, 2008, 08:47:47 AM
All of you where AM before, it'd not like you where born an expert.

Nobody has claimed to be, so far as I know.  I'm not sure where people are getting the impression that fast Experts think that Amateurs are "nobodies" - in my experience, not one of them has ever behaved that way towards me or anyone I know who is also slow.  I'm a very slow Amateur still, and the fast Experts that I know are very friendly and willing to help people learn.

Once and for all, please stop confusing anybody's exception to Amateur UNL GP payouts with the notion that they somehow look down their noses at Amateurs.  That's not really the case.  I won't rehash the arguments of the previous 10 pages, but obviously people are making value judgments about other people without having taken the time to read their arguments, simply because they disagree with their conclusions, and that's not right.

Try reading their positions before making an assumption about their character and insulting them.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: skipper08 on June 20, 2008, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on June 16, 2008, 06:27:05 PM

Good post Mark.
Gus.. READ the 10 pages.. then get back to us. Most of your questions have been discussed and explained in the thread. On average, rider to rider, experts spend way more than am riders.

hey greg, well i did read most of the 10 pages and no were in there really read the difference between an expert or amateur.
i would say it depends on the rider bc i bet money that i spend more money that some experts and i know some other amateurs that do too.
so if you can please go into detail on what you guys mean that an expert spends more money than a amateur does.
and by no means im trying to pick a fight just trying to really see the difference.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ScubaSteve on June 20, 2008, 03:50:02 PM
Quote from: skipper08 on June 20, 2008, 03:45:22 PM
hey greg, well i did read most of the 10 pages and no were in there really read the difference between an expert or amateur.
i would say it depends on the rider bc i bet money that i spend more money that some experts and i know some other amateurs that do too.
so if you can please go into detail on what you guys mean that an expert spends more money than a amateur does.
and by no means im trying to pick a fight just trying to really see the difference.

you'll understand next year gus! dont worry that faster you get the more money you'll spend thats the way it works
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: skipper08 on June 20, 2008, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: kl3640 on June 16, 2008, 09:43:56 PM
As Melk-Man pointed out, your questions have been discussed in the previous 9 pages and this page of this post, so I won't go in to detail, but people generally accept as a fact that in order to be competitive (read: Podiums) in the Expert class, let alone to win a championship, a rider must invest more money in equipment, preparation, racing activities, etc, than does a rider who seeks to achieve the same results in Amateur events.


you have said nothing in this post sorry.
couple of things, bc i cant affort a second bike does not mean an expert spends more money than a amateur. then you can not include things like trailer, personal expenses(hotel, food or anything like that)
why do i say that well because just like an expert a amteur has to spend on those things.
so becuase there is an expert that has a trailer and i dont, that does not mean that he spends more money than i do.
i can keep on going with examples but it makes no sence if no one is willing to be open minded.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: skipper08 on June 20, 2008, 03:58:19 PM
Quote from: ScubaSteve on June 20, 2008, 03:50:02 PM
you'll understand next year gus! dont worry that faster you get the more money you'll spend thats the way it works

i guess so, LOL
i know im a slow noob
but cant wait till next year.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Helmsman on June 21, 2008, 02:40:01 AM
Quote from: skipper08 on June 20, 2008, 03:54:13 PM
you have said nothing in this post sorry.
couple of things, bc i cant affort a second bike does not mean an expert spends more money than a amateur. then you can not include things like trailer, personal expenses(hotel, food or anything like that)
why do i say that well because just like an expert a amteur has to spend on those things.
so becuase there is an expert that has a trailer and i dont, that does not mean that he spends more money than i do.
i can keep on going with examples but it makes no sence if no one is willing to be open minded.

Its simple really.  In order to be a top level expert rider you have to be faster then a top level am rider...correct?  What does it takes to go faster?  It takes more tires, it takes built motors, built motors don't last very long before they need TLC, it takes more gas, etc.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: karls on June 23, 2008, 10:02:00 AM
Gus - another way to look at it is, in AM you can be very competitive on a bike that is a couple of years old, stock or minorly improved suspension, stock motor, pump gas, running take offs.  There is no way that you could be running near the front in expert with that equipment.  If you want to run near the front in expert you will spend more $$, in AM you can choose to spend the money, but not always necessary.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: djduc748l on June 23, 2008, 08:22:30 PM
I should keep biting my tounge...but...Bullshit! Melka...Expert right? big bucks, nice rig bikes, leathers, etc, talked alot of crap earlier in this post about how underserving we inferior AM's are of any payout...then someone earlier said that you need better this more that, blah, blah, blah...I'm an AM, racing a STONE STOCK bike with Pirelli's and ran faster laps than half the CCS experts, finishing as high as 6th overall on track during one race, with a best lap of 1:33:7 in the Heavyweight Superbike race...so there goes that theory...by the way, I ran the same set of tires on each of my bikes all weekend and my times were consistant 34-36's thru traffic (shit grid spots)...this is nothing more than childish jealousy...the AM's are not taking money away from your purses, your purses still suck compared to what you and your sponsors spend for a quality effort...ours just suck MORE! By the way, I hate VIR! The facilities are AWESOME, I just hate the track layout...it just doesn't flow...creamed the shit out of my pegs and bodywork just about every turn...hmmmm, maybe its time i spend some money getting my suspension set up for my 250+ lb ass! NOT! Just ride guys, enjoy it for what it is...pure adrenaline!
Peace!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on June 23, 2008, 09:36:57 PM
sometimes its better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.
all you guys are right... experts think ams are stupid, ams spend just as much as experts, experts are jealous of am payouts and i wasted my money on suspension...shit!!!  this is like trying to explain to the deaf what music sounds like or trying to tell the blind what green looks like... maybe i'm the fool for continuing to read this drivel from all these inferior ams i'm just jealous of        
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on June 24, 2008, 12:18:18 AM
Agreed Rob, and would everyone please read the post just above by KarlS (sums it up in a nutshell)...a few here just dont get it but im sure a whole bunch that have read this do, so I dont think it has been a total waste. To the very fast "AM" rider , I dont think anyone ever said "am riders  are undeserving", just if your that fast and want cash go expert. Yea, there are some am riders that just due to the 1 year/point status allows them to be AM and due to serious talent kick the crap outa 1/2 or more of ALL riders. Look around the paddock, you will see more $$ spent ON AVERAGE - PER RIDER by the white plates than the yellow plates. Comprende?  THis will be on my headstone when i die "i think its gay that AM riders get paid" :kissy:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on June 24, 2008, 12:31:12 AM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on June 24, 2008, 12:18:18 AMHis will be on my headstone when i die "i think its gay that AM riders get paid" :kissy:

Don't worry, I'm sure some undeserving AM will defile your headstone! :)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: djduc748l on June 24, 2008, 07:55:08 AM
Look, we all do this because we love it...bottom line...this whole AM/EX fued is really silly...practice in my mind is the single most important thing you can do to improve your skills...both on and off road...my advice to an AM that seems stuck and can't get faster, save your money and spend some time tearing it up on a dirt bike and you'll see how it improves your on track abilities...what I mean is that its not ALL about how much money you spend on this shock or that fuel, I believe its more on the work you put into improving your s k i l l s than how deep your pockets are...everybody has run up against the guy with the monster motor right? crazy fast going in a straight line, then parks it on the inside of every turn...he felt putting all his cash into a 190hp SB motor was the way to go, instead of spending more time learning how to ride the bike faster with the stock 150hp motor...i was guilty of the very same thing...Melk-man, I only used u as an example because of your earlier comments, ur recent ones have a much different tone, I think even u realize we all want to improve and get better and being recognized by CSS and acknowledged by them in this way is just...nice...I took HD Promos advice and will complete this year as an AM, by the way, there are a handful of guys that are making these races a blast in the UNL classes, especially my team mate Larry K, who handed me my ass this weekend! At the beginning of this year I said this would be my last year of racing anything, after 26 years racing, I was burnt out, but this season has been an eye opener, and right now, I cant wait to get my white plates and give it a go next year in the EX class! My headstone will read "too stupid to quit!" Racing is a diesese I hope they never find a cure for!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on June 24, 2008, 10:19:09 AM
Quote from: djduc748l on June 24, 2008, 07:55:08 AM
Look, we all do this because we love it...bottom line...this whole AM/EX fued is really silly...practice in my mind is the single most important thing you can do to improve your skills...both on and off road...my advice to an AM that seems stuck and can't get faster, save your money and spend some time tearing it up on a dirt bike and you'll see how it improves your on track abilities...what I mean is that its not ALL about how much money you spend on this shock or that fuel, I believe its more on the work you put into improving your s k i l l s than how deep your pockets are...everybody has run up against the guy with the monster motor right? crazy fast going in a straight line, then parks it on the inside of every turn...he felt putting all his cash into a 190hp SB motor was the way to go, instead of spending more time learning how to ride the bike faster with the stock 150hp motor...i was guilty of the very same thing...Melk-man, I only used u as an example because of your earlier comments, ur recent ones have a much different tone, I think even u realize we all want to improve and get better and being recognized by CSS and acknowledged by them in this way is just...nice...I took HD Promos advice and will complete this year as an AM, by the way, there are a handful of guys that are making these races a blast in the UNL classes, especially my team mate Larry K, who handed me my ass this weekend! At the beginning of this year I said this would be my last year of racing anything, after 26 years racing, I was burnt out, but this season has been an eye opener, and right now, I cant wait to get my white plates and give it a go next year in the EX class! My headstone will read "too stupid to quit!" Racing is a diesese I hope they never find a cure for!

I agree 100% with what you say, and we do all this for fun... I spend way more than i could ever hope to re coupe and have no visions of ever being fast enough to think i could. If i were smart, i would do what your doing. Run more on a budget, but i enjoy having some more expensive stuff multiple bikes, mechanic, etc. (by the way, my setup pales to MANY of the rigs that were there this weekend). That takes nothing away from what you (and many riders for that matter) are doing, and is impressive to say the least on older equipment with less experience.
I am a little disappointed that early posts of mine were taken out of context, retyped in their words to say what some THOUGHT i said and then make it look as if i was saying AM riders are undeserving..This happened with Jason gibbons posts and others and i was not pleased about it.  Please read the posts from the beginning before you form an opinion i ever had intentions of this. It may have been a bit quick to say bluntly that AM riders getting cash is crazy.. but it was my initial thought, and was that way even when i was an AM rider 5 years ago. I never expected cash, never got any (except a few checks from VP for finishing 1st,5th,10th or 15th and buying 10gallons of fuel)..My buddy Scott even posted "i bet you went to some south east races to get UNGP AM money".. nope, never did, and when i found out other regions paid cash for ULGP i was asking "why" even then....
I take allot of pride in giving advice to other riders on this and other forums and trackside. I'm not the fastest rider by any means but am accomplished and think i can offer allot to other riders. I  hope this thread in no way deters riders from doing so in the future. I am in NO WAY above anyone and never thought so.

Quote from: r1owner on June 24, 2008, 12:31:12 AM
Don't worry, I'm sure some undeserving AM will defile your headstone! :)
r1owner.. you have contributed little other than attempting to instigate other AM riders into thinking things were said that were not. The comment above is not appreciated in the least and is downright insulting.

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: djduc748l on June 24, 2008, 11:24:53 AM
Agreed, we r all in this together, maybe somethings were said out of haste and taken the wrong way, but nothing beats getting or giving advice that helps someone else out!
Good Luck Melk man, I'll probably see u at Barber!

Dennis
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: ScubaSteve on June 24, 2008, 11:25:51 AM
Quote from: djduc748l on June 24, 2008, 07:55:08 AM
! My headstone will read "too stupid to quit!" Racing is a diesese I hope they never find a cure for!

Mine will read the same! Even after road racing left me as a quadrapelgic! I'm going to race karts
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: JBraun on June 24, 2008, 11:26:39 AM
amateurs suck, they shouldn't even let them race.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on June 24, 2008, 11:39:44 AM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on June 24, 2008, 10:19:09 AM
r1owner.. you have contributed little other than attempting to instigate other AM riders into thinking things were said that were not. The comment above is not appreciated in the least and is downright insulting.



Just trying to add a little levity to the situation... sorry you took it as an insult.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on June 24, 2008, 11:58:03 AM
To put some relevant material in here....

I think Super Dave has advocated a three tier class structure (I could be wrong about that), but I would be a fan of that.  A true novice class where the riders are the "greenest" and are there to start learning their racecraft.

The second would be more of an AM class where people that don't want to spend the big bucks on the latest bike but want good competition could race.  Maybe there would be some payout of $ for winning or maybe not.  I really don't care.

The third would be the Experts where the most $ (if not all are) and the most competitive dudes could race.

I personally would like to see something like this.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LMsports on June 24, 2008, 12:29:04 PM
Problem is that the grids would be too small to qualify for contingency for the top level. Most riders would probably stay down for a chance of winning rather than step it up. Just look at all the people who try to stay AM longer...
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on June 24, 2008, 12:34:30 PM
Quote from: LMsports on June 24, 2008, 12:29:04 PM
Problem is that the grids would be too small to qualify for contingency for the top level. Most riders would probably stay down for a chance of winning rather than step it up. Just look at all the people who try to stay AM longer...

I agree, but if no money was available in the two lower classes, do you think it would be that way?  I don't know.  I guess they'd probably have to combine classes to get a full grid anyway so it could still cause problems with slower riders being in the way (not saying they'd be in my way by any means).
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: mikendzel on June 24, 2008, 01:03:44 PM
I read the first page, and the last 2 pages, and here's my idea:

EITHER
Split the race into an AM race and an EX race, make the last 2 races of the weekend, make the entry fee $100 and split up all of the entry fees among the competitors.  If 20 bikes entered, that's $2000.00 among say the Top 5-10.

Keep the race combined, raise the fee to $100 and just pay overall.  Run-what-you-brung, no consideration for AM/EX. 
*** And if you place in the Top10, in any of the Combined Purse races as an Amateur, where more than 10 Experts finish the race, you cannot petition to stay Amateur the following year, or even better, you are considered an Expert the next race weekend and forward ***


I like both of those ideas!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: roadracer162 on June 24, 2008, 04:31:22 PM
Quote from: r1owner on June 24, 2008, 11:58:03 AM
To put some relevant material in here....

I think Super Dave has advocated a three tier class structure (I could be wrong about that), but I would be a fan of that.  A true novice class where the riders are the "greenest" and are there to start learning their racecraft.

The second would be more of an AM class where people that don't want to spend the big bucks on the latest bike but want good competition could race.  Maybe there would be some payout of $ for winning or maybe not.  I really don't care.

The third would be the Experts where the most $ (if not all are) and the most competitive dudes could race.

I personally would like to see something like this.

And the respoonse to that idea was that there is already that structure in ASRA, CCS Expert, and CCS Amateur.

All good thoughts though. I would speculate that the additional cost of the organization would take many of the profits. I really wonder if it is worthwhile (monetarily) for an organization to hold an event. I am glad they still do.

Mark
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on June 24, 2008, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: roadracer22 on June 24, 2008, 04:31:22 PM
And the respoonse to that idea was that there is already that structure in ASRA, CCS Expert, and CCS Amateur.

All good thoughts though. I would speculate that the additional cost of the organization would take many of the profits. I really wonder if it is worthwhile (monetarily) for an organization to hold an event. I am glad they still do.

Mark

Ah yes, forgot about ASRA, but I guess the only difference would be if no money was paid to the current expert class then.

I hear ya on the costs too with adding a new class, not to mention time constraints to get the event in.

And a big +1 to the series even being held.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Bappe on June 25, 2008, 05:42:46 AM
Quote from: sobottka on May 06, 2008, 03:32:07 PM
it would make my $2200.00 weekend $2000.00  ...."its the principal smokey"  because we (generally) spend more, risk more, have more skill, have more speed, better racing and take this game a little more seriously.
yes you missed somthing ... expert racing i doubt it

Sorry, I know I'll get bashed for this, and its all in fun, but I couldnt resist........tell me how much more money do I have to spend, how much more do i have to risk, how much more skill do I have to get, and how much more serious do i have to be, to get  .046 of a second SLOWER then you?  ;)  If I were you, I'd ask for your money back...:)  LOL  JK, dont brake check me next time.  ;)  I only bring this up because you called me out on it. 
From the mylaps.com website.....

Class: EX

6 49x Rob Sobottka   8  13:05.984  31.208  1:33.315   5  86.031   -   

2 897 Aaron Bappe   8  13:07.866  0.123    1:33.269   8  86.074

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on June 25, 2008, 08:38:42 AM
i only claim to understand... maybe you dont know but i did spend 6 months last year recovering from a serious ankle injury so i'm not up to speed yet
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on June 25, 2008, 08:55:00 AM
Quote from: Bappe on June 25, 2008, 05:42:46 AM

6 49x Rob Sobottka   8  13:05.984  31.208  1:33.315   5  86.031   -   

2 897 Aaron Bappe   8  13:07.866  0.123    1:33.269   8  86.074


if i read this correcty you finished 2 sec behind me?  you cant beat a 1/2 crippled gimped up old man? :lmao:
BTW-  49x >Rob Sobottka <   8 13:39.199 34.083 1:33.184 4 86.152                   you have some work to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: LilJayRR on June 25, 2008, 09:21:40 AM
Quote from: MELK-MAN on June 24, 2008, 10:19:09 AM
I am a little disappointed that early posts of mine were taken out of context, retyped in their words to say what some THOUGHT i said and then make it look as if i was saying AM riders are undeserving..This happened with Jason gibbons posts and others and i was not pleased about it.  Please read the posts from the beginning before you form an opinion i ever had intentions of this. It may have been a bit quick to say bluntly that AM riders getting cash is crazy.. but it was my initial thought, and was that way even when i was an AM rider 5 years ago. I never expected cash, never got any (except a few checks from VP for finishing 1st,5th,10th or 15th and buying 10gallons of fuel)..My buddy Scott even posted "i bet you went to some south east races to get UNGP AM money".. nope, never did, and when i found out other regions paid cash for ULGP i was asking "why" even then....
I have refrained from posting in this thread, but since you 'singled me out', I guess I will.

I dont think I took anything you said 'out of context', it was pretty straight forward IMO when I read them the first time, and re-read them the 2nd,3rd etc...

I understand you point of view, and I dont agree with it.

Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: djduc748l on June 25, 2008, 09:48:17 AM
Quote from: ScubaSteve on June 24, 2008, 11:25:51 AM
Mine will read the same! Even after road racing left me as a quadrapelgic! I'm going to race karts

Wow, great attitude! Give um hell!!!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Bappe on June 25, 2008, 10:20:20 AM
Quote from: sobottka on June 25, 2008, 08:38:42 AM
i only claim to understand... maybe you dont know but i did spend 6 months last year recovering from a serious ankle injury so i'm not up to speed yet


ah shit man, now i feel bad...:) sorry about that.. although i dont know how serious yours was, I might be able to relate...;)  see what you think  lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrgJLJQ-3Yo
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: JBraun on June 25, 2008, 10:45:08 AM
Doesn't sound like good fun to me. Sobottka is still recovering from the type of injury that ends careers. In some cases it ends in amputation. Most guys would never race again.

So he's spending the year getting his speed back and you're calling him out because he's only a little faster than you.

The truth is, we're just trying to get you amateurs to quit before you get white plates. If you don't, you're just gona kick our asses next year, and we can't have that...
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on June 25, 2008, 11:46:35 AM
Quote from: Bappe on June 25, 2008, 05:42:46 AM
Sorry, I know I'll get bashed for this, and its all in fun, but I couldnt resist........tell me how much more money do I have to spend, how much more do i have to risk, how much more skill do I have to get, and how much more serious do i have to be, to get  .046 of a second SLOWER then you?  ;)  If I were you, I'd ask for your money back...:)  LOL  JK, dont brake check me next time.  ;)  I only bring this up because you called me out on it. 
From the mylaps.com website.....

Class: EX

6 49x Rob Sobottka   8  13:05.984  31.208  1:33.315   5  86.031   -   

2 897 Aaron Bappe   8  13:07.866  0.123    1:33.269   8  86.074




As stated many many times, it is the AVERAGE of what experts spend vs. Am riders. As another rider already stated that smoked the AM field and most experts, there are always talented riders coming up (that wont be AM long...) that ride good on whatever they are on. ON AVERAGE EXPERT RIDERS AS A WHOLE spend more that am riders.. IN GENERAL. phew... and i think this was the point trying to be made by most that have posted. For those talented riders that will be moving up to the expert ranks, will be great to have you.
It is a mystery why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Yes, AM riders spend alot of money, anyone that has been in even 1 race knows the costs of getting a bike ready and on the grid. BUT if you look around the pits, especially at this past VIR event it is NOT hard to see the massive dollars the top expert riders spend. And yes, some AM riders have trailers, multiple bikes, lots of tires, etc. but rider to rider.. on average.. week in/week out.. etc. the expert rider will spend alot more than the AM rider.
Im not backing down on my very 1st post on page 1 that somehow got things started down a nasty path but i am sorry if some were offended somehow.

R1owner.. thanks for the post. makes me feel a little better i guess. See you at the track sometime i hope.


Quote from: mikendzel on June 24, 2008, 01:03:44 PM
I read the first page, and the last 2 pages, and here's my idea:

EITHER
Split the race into an AM race and an EX race, make the last 2 races of the weekend, make the entry fee $100 and split up all of the entry fees among the competitors.  If 20 bikes entered, that's $2000.00 among say the Top 5-10.



And CCS/ASRA makes money how???? remember, they are not putting on races simply for the "fun" of it. If not profitable for them to some degree we would have fewer choices of where and when to race.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: mikendzel on June 25, 2008, 12:15:09 PM
Let's pretend that I'm smart enough to know that CCS doesn't do this for free......

It was an example, with the major POINT being that am's and ex's were not in the same race for money.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: MELK-MAN on June 25, 2008, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: mikendzel on June 25, 2008, 12:15:09 PM
Let's pretend that I'm smart enough to know that CCS doesn't do this for free......

It was an example, with the major POINT being that am's and ex's were not in the same race for money.

... an example that has all the money in entry fees going to riders. That would be very nice of them, but how is that an example of CCS not doing that for free..
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: mikendzel on June 25, 2008, 12:29:39 PM
Nevermind dude, I just read all of your posts, and now I know why you missed my point.  I was under the impression that you thought the money may make the amateur riders ride above their limits, making them more dangerous to be on the track with.  In fact you just want a bigger purse. 

I guess since the amateurs would ride anyway, without the purse, that explains why the number of Unlimited Superbike entries are only about 60% of  the Unlimited GP entries. 

:thumb:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on June 25, 2008, 01:13:27 PM
Quote from: Bappe on June 25, 2008, 10:20:20 AM
ah shit man, now i feel bad...:)sorry about that.. although i dont know how serious yours was, I might be able to relate...;)  see what you think  lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrgJLJQ-3Yo
well injuries are common in motorcycling so i dont think i'm special but since you brought it up here is a pic. i had a pilon fracture that included a fibula fracture and now have both bones plated. i am just now feeling pretty good and can walk pretty good (in the morning... after a busy day, not so good) but can not yet run or jog.  I have no doubts yours was as serious if not more... i didnt want to watch the whole video
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x222/chickenhawk049/brokenankle007.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on June 25, 2008, 01:32:02 PM
green is a mix between blue and yellow. blue and yellow are primary colors. the sky is blue and daisies are yellow. does this help?
who wants to take a crack at music?
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: r1owner on June 25, 2008, 01:55:43 PM
Glad to see you (figuratively speaking) back out there Rob.  Hopefully I'll see you (for real) at R.A.

When Rob's on his game, he rolls along pretty damn good!

IMO, anyone that gets a sportbike on the track (yes, either trackday or racing) is a step ahead of the poser I used to be back when I thought riding a Ninja on the street was the epitome of sportbiking.  The suckers that don't take their bike to the track are the only real people missing out IMO.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: JonGu on June 25, 2008, 02:28:41 PM
Good god Rob, you just made me lose my breakfast and yesterdays dinner that I hadn't shat out yet, was that necessary? lol, j/k I didn't realize it was that major of an injury you went through last year. And you are still faster than me, you bastard!
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on June 25, 2008, 04:24:41 PM
scotty and gu- thanks for the props, it has been very difficult and frustrating for me to come back and be slower than i was as an am (yes bappe-even though im spending more) and having guys who were never faster than me leave me behind.  :kicknuts:  it has made this year (so far) less than fun
a couple more weekends and i'll be my old self again... i hope
 
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Bappe on June 25, 2008, 05:25:39 PM
Quote from: sobottka on June 25, 2008, 04:24:41 PM
scotty and gu- thanks for the props, it has been very difficult and frustrating for me to come back and be slower than i was as an am (yes bappe-even though im spending more) and having guys who were never faster than me leave me behind.  :kicknuts:  it has made this year (so far) less than fun
a couple more weekends and i'll be my old self again... i hope
 

yeah you did quite a number it looks like, how did you go about that one?  On the track?  Yeah I can see how that would slow you down, but yuo would never notice it.  I was just giving you shit earlier, but I feel ya, I broke both mine, compound tib/fib plates screws all that...shattered right ankle it was almost amputated, still could be, fused and barely has any movement...7 surgeries total couldnt walk for 8 months...oh and not to mention I woke up paralyzed from the waste down for two weeks when I was 14, then had only 70% come back, had surgery for that which at 18 would cause me to have another back surgery and put stell rods all the way up and down my spine with big ass screws in my back...:) anyway sorry got carried away with the battle wound stories.  But all I know is I spend alot of money that I dont have and shouldnt be spending to race for the pure adrenaline and excitement, and the expirience of doing new things, meeting new people and going new places...yeah I competative and go out and do the best I can, but my goal is to just have fun, and dont expect anything in return, or to take away anything from anyone else...Cant we all just get along?  lol  :)  peace out.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Sobottka on June 25, 2008, 05:49:04 PM
sound like with my skateboarding, bmx and roadracing injuries we could go toe to toe on the war stories. no problem on the razzing me. the internet has a way of bringing that out of everyone. i wouldnt expect that anyone who has posted up here would be an ass in person and personally would have no problem helping anyone here with anyting i could as im sure melka (who ive never met) would too. stop by the lithium pit and introduce yourself, I'll have a beer for ya ... you cant have too many friends at the track!   :cheers:
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: JonGu on June 25, 2008, 06:02:30 PM
You are wrong Rob. Bappe is an ass in person too lol
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: aflaim on June 25, 2008, 09:45:27 PM
you got beer Rob!...dam I'm gonna have to start racing again.
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: Bappe on June 26, 2008, 05:22:05 PM
Quote from: JonGu on June 25, 2008, 06:02:30 PM
You are wrong Rob. Bappe is an ass in person too lol

ouch Gu that hurt...I thought I was nice to you.  your the one that gets yelled at for "agressive passing" all the time....lol :)
Title: Re: Unlimited grand prix payouts
Post by: skipper08 on June 26, 2008, 07:21:10 PM
GOOD LORD that is a nice ass jump with a nasty fall.

btw im slow so i dont spend that much money =D
maybe next year ill spend more once i become an expert and then once again ill have to go to melka's garage to ask for tool. right greg and you better let me borrow them, if not im coming back in here and ill stay that i spend more money that you LOL.