I've been a big fan of Dunlops, particularly their ability to maintain grip for a lot of laps, but I was very disappointed by their performance this past weekend at Daytona. At first, I noticed that mine (17" slicks) lost traction early than they normally would have, about 1/2 way through the Solo Challenge. So I went to the Dunlop guys and asked them what kind of reports they were getting, and to their credit they were honest, telling my that while they had been expecting reports of 50 laps, most people were coming back and telling them that they were experiencing severe performance degradation at around 25 laps. Then, my pit buddies started having problems. See the pictures below, but did anyone here have a similar experience at Daytona? I don't know if Dunlop made a change to their compounds or what, but some of these pictures are downright scary!
This first one is a rear on my friend's GSX-R1000. Admittedly, he completed the enitre Solo Challenge on it, but it's not good! And later one (I don't have a picture of this one) he had a front tire go flat on him, thank God not on the banking! YES, those are the threads showing through!
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Erufusxs%2FDSC02887.JPG&hash=2f640aacf51b2599549b73c0d35335bbe9d8f378)
This one is of my front on a GSX-R750 after the Solo Challenge and GTO (the dirt and grass on it isn't from a crash, but rather from it being wheeled around over some crud):
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Erufusxs%2FDSC02891.JPG&hash=1eab2fa8cf65a7836eb39ef9f4bc9bbba046a122)
This is my other friend's GSX-R750, and this started after only 2 laps! He started to feel it be "bumpy," but finished the race anyway, so after 1 warmup lap and 5 race laps, here's how it looked (the damage continues around the entire circumference of the tire, the picture only shows part of the tire, but it's the same all the way around):
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Erufusxs%2FDSC02907.JPG&hash=f089951024eaca31d8ea658ff95b395ed5ed28c7)
All of these tires were mounted brand new on the day the pics were taken! All of the tires were properly warmed on tire warmers and nobody sat on the grid for too long - it's not cold tire damage.
We didn't see any issues like that with our Pirellis.
Looks to me like to much spinning and sliding and maybe wrong suspension setup.
Quote from: nfcracin on March 05, 2008, 09:20:07 PM
Looks to me like to much spinning and sliding and maybe wrong suspension setup.
looks to me like dunlops at daytona. year after year after year.
I'm curious what kind of lap times you guys were running when you got those results?
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on March 05, 2008, 10:50:01 PM
I'm curious what kind of lap times you guys were running when you got those results?
The first and third were Experts in the 46-47 range, and the 2nd was an Amateur in the low-mid 50's.
What compounds???
For comparison
My CBR's soft Pirelli after 37 laps running 1:53-1:55.
(https://www.ccsforum.com/gallery/1576_06_03_08_9_14_20.jpg)
My SV's soft Pirelli after 99 laps of Moto-ST.
(https://www.ccsforum.com/gallery/1576_06_03_08_9_07_51.jpg)
Quote from: SVbadguy on March 06, 2008, 04:16:50 PM
For comparison
My CBR's soft Pirelli after 37 laps running 1:53-1:55.
What kind of CBR and SV?
Also, FYI for those reading this thread we were all running the pressures listed on Dunlop's pressure board that weekend, which IIRC were something like 35/26 HOT or thereabouts - I don't remember exactly but I do know that we set them exactly to the pressures on the board HOT, after running the warmers on HI for an hour or so.
I'm really interested to know the results from other Dunlop riders at CCS Daytona last week.
'07 CBR600RR
'01 SV650
riding with svbadguy
we had our fastest lap at lap 79 and at the end of 500km we were still running the same laptime as lap 2.On my ducati i was using the older pirelli's and after the whole weekend practice and 6 races i was still getting the same lap times,while i only got 90hp and not 170 so that may be why that our 75 hp sv and 90 hp ducati that the tires last so long.
This is a R&D game we're in and it doesn't always work out. I have raced almost exclusively on Dunlops for over a decade and I think they are the best overall tire available. Daytona, however, has definitely been their nemisis. I've experienced tire growth on the 16.5 slick that was mind boggling as well as some weird wear. Suspension setup is crucial and you can usually work around a tire deficiency to make it last for the entire race... the tradeoff is usually lap times. I am a little disappointed that Dunlop is in the same boat as the last time I was at DIS (2 years ago), but I still feel they offer the best overall product.
And to think they are going to do the 200 on the big bikes next year.
Quote from: cardzilla on March 09, 2008, 01:02:59 PM
This is a R&D game we're in and it doesn't always work out. I have raced almost exclusively on Dunlops for over a decade and I think they are the best overall tire available.
Not trying to start shit, honest. Just curious.
I have always found this line of thought, well, questionable. I personally beleive the Michelins are the best tires in the industry, I believe that because I have raced or ridden every other brand of tires in the past two years. How do you arrive at the conclusion that Dunlop is the best when you havent ridden anything else for over a decade? What is that, 3-4 generations of evolution for all companies? Just asking, not insults intended, just wanted to hear your thoughts. If youve been racing for 10 years you obviously have been doing something right and Id like to hear your view point.
Ohh and sorry for the thread jack :biggrin:
Quote from: benprobst on March 09, 2008, 02:02:35 PM
Not trying to start shit, honest. Just curious.
I have always found this line of thought, well, questionable. I personally beleive the Michelins are the best tires in the industry, I believe that because I have raced or ridden every other brand of tires in the past two years. How do you arrive at the conclusion that Dunlop is the best when you havent ridden anything else for over a decade? What is that, 3-4 generations of evolution for all companies? Just asking, not insults intended, just wanted to hear your thoughts. If youve been racing for 10 years you obviously have been doing something right and Id like to hear your view point.
Ohh and sorry for the thread jack :biggrin:
I guess that's a pretty fair question. When I started I tried everything under the sun and went with the Dunlops. I did try Pirelli when they came out and I'm currently trying some different Michelins. In the early 90's it was pretty much either Dunlop or Michelin, I think these days Pirelli and B'stone have put themselves right up there. There are so many variables involved in what makes someone go fast on one particular brand that you really can't say one brand is "best". In that sense I guess you could say that a tire could be judged on its faults, which makes Dunlops problems at DIS all the worse. I think they've overthought the whole thing because the best tire I ever used there wasn't even a DIS tire... go figure.
Seth's Dunlop on the rear had about 1" diameter plugs missing about every 5" around the left center of his tire, he was on the new 211 N-tec Daytona compound. That was after only 5 laps. Scary! I've never had an issue with Dunlops, I ran the N-tec slicks last year.
Quote from: JohnnyBlaze on March 31, 2008, 09:27:01 AM
Seth's Dunlop on the rear had about 1" diameter plugs missing about every 5" around the left center of his tire, he was on the new 211 N-tec Daytona compound. That was after only 5 laps. Scary! I've never had an issue with Dunlops, I ran the N-tec slicks last year.
Any pics? I'm writing a letter to Dunlop and would like to send along any pics that anyone has of their 211 tire failures at March Daytona this year.