Just decided to check the old Gixxer out before the season gets under way. What does it mean if the valves have thick (I mean THICK) black crap all over them? The bike only has 3200 miles on it. The last 1000 on the track. Is this normal? Being a car engine guy, this doesn't happen for a long, long time and I've never had it happen on a race motor. I geuss I need to pull the head and take care of this? This is not in the budget. :'( Some help?
Sounds like carbon buildup. :-[
QuoteSounds like carbon buildup. :-[
Carbon, yes, but is this normal?
What kind of gas were you running?
You're overly rich, burning oil, or both. Fluffy, sooty, flat black is rich. Moist or glossy is oil. Have you done compression and leakdown tests? Those should be next. If the bike passes, ask yourself, "Does she use oil?" If not, the culprit is jetting.
Will it start? Ride it! You're so cheap that you brag about it, so why should we expect that you'll spend $$$ to rebuild a motor that still runs? ;D
Seriously, if it's a rich condition, just take the bike to a dyno. For around $200, you'll be set on the money. Most of the carbon will burn away. Perhaps the motor won't be perfect, but certianly good enough for a yellowplated sandbagger...
Edgar: Stock motor. D&D slip-on. Ran 91 octane premium unleaded.
K3: I think I'll pull the motor and have a full Superstock rebuild done to it by Yoshi. :P
Speedballer told me it was because you rarely go above 6K RPM ;)
hehehehe :)
R1, I should have my bottom-end finished tomorrow night.
You need to finish your bike too!!!! 8)
Man, I haven't even touched it in three weeks. At this rate, I'll be lucky to make the first race at Gateway in June!!!! :(
I won't be able to work on it tomorrow either, as I have a ton of stuff to do around the house. I am getting depressed, and the weather f-ing sucks!
I'll fire that bitch up on June 1st, and probably need a rebuild, since it hasn't been started since like end of July.
If you were running a stock motor with pump gas, I would say that K3 is right. The reason I asked about fuel is that I run a 110 leaded gas and that leaves lead deposits on the valves. I don't think you need to remove the carbon, but it's not the way to make the most hp, so it's up to you. ;)
I run 120+ MON fuel, and I have no lead deposits. Some fuels leave deposits, period.
91MON unleadeds burn with more debris than 89 or 87 MON fuel...
Back to original break-in, if you babied it, the rings are probably not holding the oil down, and now you need a new set of rings and a hone job.
My $.02...
Don't know about the break-in, I bought the bike with a salvage title. It had 2200 miles on it when I bought it. The carbon looks a little wet. I've heard that the guides can leak a little when an engine is opperated at high RPMs. I wasn't expecting it to build up this soon. The last couple races it would bog down low until it really got warmed up. Could this be because it was rich? The slip-on was on the bike when I bought it. I don't know if the jets are stock or not. Your right, Edgar, it doesn't look very HP friendly. Let me see, porting, mill the head, Yoshi cams......who needs a 750.
QuoteSpeedballer told me it was because you rarely go above 6K RPM ;)
My first experience riding a GSXR:
My brothers friend was watching me race at the drag strip and had a GSXR600. He wanted me to take it for a ride. I was a little apprehensive at first cause the last time I had ridden a street bike was 15 years earlier, which had ended in a 100 MPH over the handlebars, roadrash inflicting, face of death experience. (Those old water buffalo's don't handle too well, do they. And for you punks, thats a 1975 3 cylinder, water-cooled 2 stroke that weighed almost 600 pounds.) I thought about it awhile and said OK. I rode the bike and thought, pretty cool, no big deal. I was used to the accelleration of a 170 MPH rear engine dragster and my only motorcycle expereince was the buffalo. I got back and he said "So what you think? Pretty fast, huh? I was trying to think of something nice to say when he adds "Yeh, when you get it above 8000 grand it's like a rocket!" 8000 grand, hmm? I was shifting at 6000! Hey, that's what the red-line was on a water buffalo. :-[
Quote. The carbon looks a little wet.
The last couple races it would bog down low until it really got warmed up. Could this be because it was rich?
Let me see, porting, mill the head, Yoshi cams......who needs a 750.
Wet is oil. Rings or guides. A valve job with new seals should be around $200 if you bring the head to the machinist. Have the bores measured. If you can still get away with the original pistons, OEM rings are about $40 per piston. The machinist should hone the bores before reassembly. A Weisco piston kit is $200-300, boring about $40-60 per hole.
Rich usually HELPS cold, low speed operation. Making the mixture rich is what the choke's job is, so if you're jetted rich, cold running will be great. How's that air filter look, cheapskate?
Lets see... F40 rules require a SS legal machine, so porting and cams are out. Personally, I feel that since 1000 and 750 machines are legal, a 600 should be allowed to run Superbike specs. You have no idea how I'd love to add slicks, port work and flatslides to my Ninja!
Kev, if you can do the teardown and rebuild yourself, but need a machinist, E me. I have a guy who does great work fast. A common term in his vocabulary is "Racer Emergency."
QuoteLets see... F40 rules require a SS legal machine, so porting and cams are out.
You think they'll tear me down? Ha ha ha! ;D
Yes, deposits on the valves to the excess you have described, while not frequent, is normal.
I'm gonna bet that everything on the motor is fine, piston rings included. I'm sure your bike still runs. The carbon build up should not be that big of a problem.
If it were my bike,
I would pull the head and send it to my favorite performance shop. I would have them clean the valves, cut the valve seat with a Serdi valve job, and reassemble it with brand new valve guide oil seals. After it was put back together, I would schedule some dyno time on a Dynojet model 250 dyno to tweak the jetting so that the air/ fuel ratio was a bit more optimal. That would help keep the valves from getting that build up again.
If you overfill with oil it will get sucked up into the air box from the crank case and leave nice oil deposits on the top of your intake valves. Also 93 pump gas will leave crap on your valves too. I would check the oil level and run some race gas from now on. The race gas will clean up ypur valves quite nice. There isnt anything seriously wrong with your bike. ;D
Putting it back together. Hell, I can't ride the thing as fast as it will go. Why make it faster! ;D (In other words, I'm a cheapskate. K3, you happy now? :P)
Quote(In other words, I'm a cheapskate. K3, you happy now? :P)
Not until you put on a white plate and race me mano a mano. (Well, as mano as a panty wearing, yellow plated sandbagger can be...)
Seriously. You dick! I had you pegged as the guy I was going to battle furiously with this year, but you chickened out and hid behind a yellow plate. I'm soooo dissapointed!!!
QuoteNot until you put on a white plate and race me mano a mano. (Well, as mano as a panty wearing, yellow plated sandbagger can be...)
Seriously. You dick! I had you pegged as the guy I was going to battle furiously with this year, but you chickened out and hid behind a yellow plate. I'm soooo dissapointed!!!
You're breaking my heart. You dick!
Well, at least you can come from the back of the amateur grid and smoke my white plate @$$ at Gateway. ;D :o Seriously though. I won't be racing against Edgar anymore now that I have the ZX6R, so I had you all slotted in as his replacement in the arch-rival position. Oh well. I'll just have to go play with someone else...
Think about it, Kevin. Me, You, Eddie Bingham, the Schock brothers, Dean Hagaman... What a bunch of fast guys are going to be in Expert F40 this year! And sitting there with a huge target on his back is Rick (Bossman) Brewer! Oh, the drama!
This has been the winter of my discontent. Work has really sucked. Fantasizing about the crazy-fast crowd in EXF40 for 03 has been the only thing that has gotten me through. Honestly, this is the reason that I've been busting your balls so bad about staying yellow. I've been picturing these insane, 5 to 8 bike battles for only 5 trophies, and it's had me GRINNING!!! There's just nothing better than a BATTLE!!! That's why I'm so dissappointed that you won't be joining us in the white plate crowd. Your competition will be missed.
OK, enough mushy stuff. Back to ball busting. Planning to enter F40 amateur AGAIN this year so you can DEFEND your TWO CHAMPIONSHIPS? Anticipating any super-talented young 40 year old beginners to show up and give you some competition? Do I smell cherry pie baking? ;D Hey! Maybe I should call CCS and ask them if I can retain my amateur status so you'll have someone to race with!!! Would I like to show up at Daytona ROC this fall as a FORMULA 40 AMATEUR?!!! Nah. I'll go white. I like COMPETITION!!!
Can I play with you guys if I ride a really, really old bike?
Quote(Those old water buffalo's don't handle too well, do they. And for you punks, thats a 1975 3 cylinder, water-cooled 2 stroke that weighed almost 600 pounds.)
Ha! My father just gave away an old zuk that was rotting away on the side of the house. It had Mikunis on it and a custom black paint job with a quarter fairing. I rode that bike a bit while I was in my late teens. Wouldn't turn compared to newer stuff, but in it's hayday it was supposedly the best. 1975 GT750 that he bought new when I was about a month old. I could drag just about everything (including 2 of the 3 pipes)in the turns and still power whellie out when it came on the pipe. If anybody wants to learn to ride faster, get one of those big behemoths and try going fast. I never went down on it, but came really close a ton of times (it handles pretty well in the grass dodging mailboxes). Nothing I've heard to this day sounded as sweet as that bike when it came on the pipe. We used to get more attention at Bike Week with that thing than just about every other bike there. "What the Hell is that?" was the common question. I miss that old bike. Quite a first street bike to have. ;D
QuoteCan I play with you guys if I ride a really, really old bike?
Like a 1977 Honda CB360? ;D
Um, three cylinder two stroke is right. I think the frame is a '74.
Maybe this link will work.
http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114324
QuoteI've been picturing these insane, 5 to 8 bike battles for only 5 trophies, and it's had me GRINNING!![/b]
If I am not mistaken, doesn't Mark Oldham( :o ) run F40?
Even Super_Dave would say he's fast ;D
Good luck guys 8)
He was a fast expert in 1987 when I started.
QuoteThink about it, Kevin. Me, You, Eddie Bingham, the Schock brothers, Dean Hagaman... What a bunch of fast guys are going to be in Expert F40 this year! And sitting there with a huge target on his back is Rick (Bossman) Brewer! Oh, the drama!
This has been the winter of my discontent. Work has really sucked. Fantasizing about the crazy-fast crowd in EXF40 for 03 has been the only thing that has gotten me through. Honestly, this is the reason that I've been busting your balls so bad about staying yellow. I've been picturing these insane, 5 to 8 bike battles for only 5 trophies, and it's had me GRINNING!!! There's just nothing better than a BATTLE!!! That's why I'm so dissappointed that you won't be joining us in the white plate crowd. Your competition will be missed.
OK, enough mushy stuff. Back to ball busting. Planning to enter F40 amateur AGAIN this year so you can DEFEND your TWO CHAMPIONSHIPS? Anticipating any super-talented young 40 year old beginners to show up and give you some competition? Do I smell cherry pie baking? ;D Hey! Maybe I should call CCS and ask them if I can retain my amateur status so you'll have someone to race with!!! Would I like to show up at Daytona ROC this fall as a FORMULA 40 AMATEUR?!!! Nah. I'll go white. I like COMPETITION!!!
All I can say for you 40 year old amateurs is that you should be glad I was born in 65, and not 64, cause that championship would be mine!!!!!! :P
QuoteCan I play with you guys if I ride a really, really old bike?
Go away Dave. Next you'll be offering to ride with one hand tied behind your back...
QuoteAll I can say for you 40 year old amateurs is that you should be glad I was born in 65, and not 64, cause that championship would be mine!!!!!! :P
I'm sure glad I took home my championship in '00... ;D
Mike
ISTR that Dean Hs Bday isn't until near the end of the season. My Bday is in July and believe it or not I am older than he is. (Mark Stiles I don't think will be 40 until after the season is over)
QuoteISTR that Dean Hs Bday isn't until near the end of the season. My Bday is in July and believe it or not I am older than he is. (Mark Stiles I don't think will be 40 until after the season is over)
THANK YOU, GOD!!! Too dang many fast old guys around here already!!!
Sheeeet, K3, you'll show 'em how it's done... 8)
Update. Head is off. Preparing to disassemble. I wonder if my Yoshi cams will arrive in time for the first race???
Motors back together! :) It even runs. ;D Test ride tomorow. ;D ;D
Ride it like you stole it!
QuoteRide it like you stole it!
Knowing how cheap Kevin is... ::)
Hey! I paid hard, cash money for that bike! $2500 :o That's like $25,000 in Kevin bucks! ;D Road the bike today. WOW! K3, I'm coming for you from the back row! You better watch out. ;D (You too, Eddie)
If you catch me from the back row of the amateur grid, I will personally protest to CCS that you are too good to be classified as an amateur!!!
QuoteIf you catch me from the back row of the amateur grid, I will personally protest to CCS that you are too good to be classified as an amateur!!!
LOL! Where's the love, Chris? ???