Motorcycle Racing Forum

Racing Discussion => Racing Discussion => Topic started by: xb9racer on December 06, 2007, 02:51:05 PM

Title: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: xb9racer on December 06, 2007, 02:51:05 PM
I like BHF just fine. But another season coming up of mostly BHF again. I know it's easier said than done, but aren't there any other tracks!? :banghead:
I know there are a few TBA's but 3 race weekends in May!? :wtf:
Hopefully it changes a little bit!
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Court Jester on December 06, 2007, 03:31:16 PM
hey, black hawks 2 hours from my house. i think it's just fine as it is.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: xb9racer on December 06, 2007, 03:37:15 PM
It's  only 1 for me, but variety is the spice of life!
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: gpz11 on December 06, 2007, 03:45:49 PM
I gotta admit some other tracks would be nice. Kinda like back in the days of GLRRA where they only ran at Grattan before they disappeared.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 03:51:07 PM
Some people would kill for those opportunities. 

Racers have regularly supports five to six races a year at Blackhawk for a long, long, long time.  They haven't at other Midwest tracks.  Or the tracks haven't kept up with maintenance.  Or the track costs too much to rent.

Add on top of that the ability of racers to compete in larger championship series...meaning, racers have been better able to support a regional series with fewer numbers of events compared to larger numbers.  That's even prompted CCS to have track championships at places like Blackhawk and Summit Point. 

Anyway, those are some of things that I've seen and what has shaped how I've raced.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Sobottka on December 06, 2007, 04:29:17 PM
whatever... 5 out of 9 sucks!!
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: LMsports on December 06, 2007, 04:53:10 PM
Rob, I'm looking at your avatar and wondering what happened to you since I saw you last...did you get a different haircut?
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: SV88 on December 06, 2007, 04:54:07 PM
I agree BHF is ok for no more than 3 races.  What about Autobahn S. or full, Gingerman etc... I'll probably do RA, BHF (3x), possibly Topeka and will race WERA at Gingerman.  Otherwise will be playing in the dirt on my KDX 200 or sailing in stiff breezes....
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 04:54:26 PM
Quote from: sobottka on December 06, 2007, 04:29:17 PM
whatever... 5 out of 9 sucks!!
Yeah, that's way too many crashes.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 04:55:28 PM
Quote from: LMsports on December 06, 2007, 04:53:10 PM
Rob, I'm looking at your avatar and wondering what happened to you since I saw you last...did you get a different haircut?
estrogen
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 04:56:34 PM
Quote from: SV88 on December 06, 2007, 04:54:07 PM
or sailing in stiff breezes....

tmi
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: HAWK on December 06, 2007, 05:09:19 PM
Don't know the story with Autobahn but I believe Gingerman was dropped for attendance. If the turnout is too small then CCS loses money, goes out of business, and then we don't race at all. The turnout at Blackhawk pays the bills. The 2 TBA races are combined with GP region, a way to add some variety in a format that will pay the bills.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 05:16:53 PM
Autobahn is a country club.  They are catering to their membership, and not to outside racing rental interests. 

Would anyone like to share the stories of having to move everything multiple times in the pit area at ACC?

As for TBD, Turberculosis Downs, I'll be impressed if they can finish it by that first event. 
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: truckstop on December 06, 2007, 05:19:20 PM
I'd love to see Grattan, Gingerman, or Autobahn, even Brainerd on the calendar, but I thought there were various political reasons why this will never happen? Also, I thought everyone hated Autobahn? South has gotten super bumpy, at least according to the very fast this past summer. I spent most of my time there leading around the very slow so I didn't notice. North is still nice, but too short.

We're probably only doing the Blackhawk dates this year, Plus a bunch of trackdays there. I really don't mind. (It's also less that two hours away).

How do the NE guys feel about all 8 of their races being held at Loudon?
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Team Spalding on December 06, 2007, 05:32:23 PM
I would do Blackhawk 6 times a year. Only 1 hr from my house. Sleep in my own bed if I want and less gas money. I here what you are saying about variety but I always seem to have the most fun there. It is cozy and it is our home track.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: xb9racer on December 06, 2007, 05:49:11 PM
We'll see how ya all feel at the end of the season when the tracks beat to shit again. Hopefully the new owner will rectify that issue before it gets to that point.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Burt Munro on December 06, 2007, 05:58:24 PM
Quote from: xb9racer on December 06, 2007, 02:51:05 PM
I like BHF just fine. But another season coming up of mostly BHF again. I know it's easier said than done, but aren't there any other tracks!? :banghead:

OK....  what would be some other options?........

Gingerman - prior to last year was on the schedule twice yearly - dropped due to poor attendance

Autobahn - 2 dates in '05 - 1 in '06 - dropped due to poor attendance and issues with track management

Gateway - 1 date last year - combined date with GP - poorly attended and expensive to rent

I-39 Raceway - never got off the ground.

Iowa Speedway - no comment necessary

Putnam - hasn't hosted motorcycle races since about '04 when track management got in a pissin' match with WERA

MAM - not on current schedule as of yet.  Track showing it's age and paddock issues

Topeka - great facility - travel distance for much of MW region

Road America - great facility - expensive and difficult to secure desirable dates

Brainerd - new track ownership should produce some improvements - distance could be an issue for some.

Grattan - hasn't been on the schedule for a number of years - may have same problems as Gingerman.

Next closest options would be in Ohio, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Nebraska.  How far would MW riders be able (or willing) to travel?
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 06:03:54 PM
I'm working on an Iowa project.  Lots to over come, but we are actively working on it. 
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Sobottka on December 06, 2007, 06:04:36 PM
Quote from: LMsports on December 06, 2007, 04:53:10 PM
Rob, I'm looking at your avatar and wondering what happened to you since I saw you last...did you get a different haircut?
it was a rough night :biggrin:
Quote from: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 04:54:26 PM
Yeah, that's way too many crashes.   :biggrin:
i aint skeered :ass:
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 06:11:17 PM
(http://archive.gulfnews.com/images/07/04/21/22_tb_yoda_5.gif)
You will be.



:biggrin:
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Scotty Ryan on December 06, 2007, 06:32:57 PM
Everyone always seems to forget Frankfort International Raceway Park..... It's close and has a bitch'n bus stop..... I say we look into racing there....
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 06:47:04 PM
Have you talked to Bob about the convention center for next years banquet?
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: KTG on December 06, 2007, 06:54:53 PM
Awesome....10 minutes away!
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: jigs on December 06, 2007, 06:58:14 PM
ACC South is s shithole cuz' of the bump's to me at least,I was there a couple time's late last seaon and it's gotten worse,what's the deal with CCS and ACC anyway??I guess if it were re-paved I wouldn't mind it,any new's about a re-pave,and if they did would CCS go there or are they at odd's for some reason.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 07:15:36 PM
It's a country club, not a race track.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Burt Munro on December 06, 2007, 07:32:06 PM
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on December 06, 2007, 06:32:57 PM
Everyone always seems to forget Frankfort International Raceway Park..... It's close and has a bitch'n bus stop..... I say we look into racing there....
Scotty,

I've heard you mention this track before.  I haven't been able to find any information on it.  Links??
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 06, 2007, 07:58:45 PM
I don't know if he has a website up.  I think he's debating, with himself, as he financed it all on his own, whether to get his investment back through selling off memberships and then going from there or using it for a rental income for track days, racing, and other track related things. 

I haven't tried using Google earth on it yet, but, Scotty, didn't he say that the latest sat picture on google earth was old enough that it only showed a field with the stream around where the bus stop is now?  I know that I can see the trailer at your house.  I think I've decided my wife is outside on the patio on mine...LOL!
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: jigs on December 06, 2007, 08:04:25 PM
So kinda a Thurston Howell and Lovey kinda thing??LOL Too bad really,if it were decent and run like a racetrack it would be another close venue for us.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Court Jester on December 06, 2007, 08:23:42 PM
Putnam ran a race last spring with one racing org. I'd like to see CCS there at least once through out the year.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: cbr-racer on December 06, 2007, 08:29:26 PM
Mid-Ohio would be sweet
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Team Spalding on December 06, 2007, 09:26:33 PM
Putnam would be great. Smooth sticky pavement, fast flowing track good for all classes and not too far away but I heard they will never allow motorcycle racing again because of a death while back.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: GSXR RACER MIKE on December 06, 2007, 10:44:35 PM
Quote from: Redbuell on December 06, 2007, 09:26:33 PM
Putnam would be great. Smooth sticky pavement, fast flowing track good for all classes and not too far away but I heard they will never allow motorcycle racing again because of a death while back.

Dale Earnhart died while racing a car at Daytona, ironically in almost the exact same spot we all lost a fellow motorcycle racer in 2003. Accidents happen, it's an unfortunate fact of life - but life goes on. Should we all stop doing anything exciting and voluntarily live in a padded room the rest of our lives?

Putnam was one of my favorite tracks when I raced there with CCS in the late 90's, I've always wished CCS would race there again. But there were issues surrounding that track, for example the cops waiting at the front gate to make sure we didn't race a minute past when we were supposed to stop or they threatened to arrest the race director due to violating the noise ordinance. Why so strict? I heard it was because of all the Urban Sprawl people from Indianapolis moving a 1/2 hour + away from the city and building their homes right near this track out in the middle of nowhere and then complaining about the noise.  :wtf: I remember issues with CCS staff not being allowed to enter the facility on Friday to set-up registration and such for Saturday morning, also some issues with start and stop times of any 'on track' activity and real gridlock at the front gate due to the track not opening the gates as early as most tracks usually did.

As much as I would love to see this track back on the CCS MW schedule I don't see it happening without some major changes in operations of that facility (a facility which was originally built as a private playground for a weathy individual if I remember correctly).

Oh ya, I live in the same county as Blackhawk Farms.  8)
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Court Jester on December 06, 2007, 10:48:14 PM
putnam all comes down to insurance costs now i'm sure. 
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Burt Munro on December 06, 2007, 11:20:33 PM
Quote from: Court Jester on December 06, 2007, 08:23:42 PM
Putnam ran a race last spring with one racing org. I'd like to see CCS there at least once through out the year.
Fasttrax Mar 31/Apr 1 ???
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Burt Munro on December 06, 2007, 11:38:03 PM
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on December 06, 2007, 10:44:35 PM
   
As much as I would love to see this track back on the CCS MW schedule I don't see it happening without some major changes in operations of that facility (a facility which was originally built as a private playground for a weathy individual if I remember correctly).


The Diasio's......  They built/build the D962 and D962R.  (kind of a Porsche 962 replica)   The D962 had a 1000cc Yamaha motor.   The D962R uses a Mazda RX-8 twin rotary.

One of the most amazing BBS threads I ever read was when Diasio pulled the WERA Putnam race contract out from under them.  Mongo, I'm sure you'll read this.  I think it was over Christmas and you were on vacation, right?  Diasio acted like a little kid about getting this contract signed.  Threatened that for every day Mongo didn't respond he would pull one date out of the contract.  Diasio sounded like a 5 year old who couldn't get his way!!!   What a jerk!
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Super Dave on December 07, 2007, 08:45:07 AM
Yeah, the owners, the Diasio's, just don't want motorcycle racing there.  You can't camp there over night either.

I remember the BBS thread.  That was pretty incredible.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: weggieman on December 07, 2007, 09:05:07 AM
Why try to go back to a hostile environment? Putnam was never designed to be a rental track. It's supposed to be a country club like Autobahn, without all the cool emenities of ACC. Just a place in the country to drive your car without the hassles of the man.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: RSimmons on December 07, 2007, 09:17:02 AM
I lnow ive only an hour away from Putnam and it doesn't bother me one bit that its not on the schedule. Besides the obvious hostility motorcycle racing, I just don't think its a fun track. Maybe I have a soft spot for BHF since it was my first trackday, but I like it better.
That said, I'll probably run one or two WERA events since they tend to be closer to my new location here in Bloomington (furthest is Grattan at 6.5 hrs compared to closest CCS track is BHF at 6.5 hrs) and I'd like to get a little variety in my race diet.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Scotty Ryan on December 07, 2007, 11:16:21 AM
Dave - your right - the satellite view doesn't show up yet - they seem slow with updating - the 355 tollway was extended almost 10 miles right here by my house and they haven't got that on the map. From what I understand there is no website yet - this was an out of pocket investment - and the build cost more then the projected figures. The plans changed and things got put on hold.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: mx558 on December 07, 2007, 11:31:12 AM
ACC is just fine now since they did the grinding. Now Gingerman sucks, they should put jumps to go over the seams, and coming through Chicago really blows.
Quote from: jigs on December 06, 2007, 06:58:14 PM
ACC South is s shithole cuz' of the bump's to me at least,I was there a couple time's late last seaon and it's gotten worse,what's the deal with CCS and ACC anyway??I guess if it were re-paved I wouldn't mind it,any new's about a re-pave,and if they did would CCS go there or are they at odd's for some reason.
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: smite1 on December 07, 2007, 07:05:14 PM
BHF rawks!
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: El Guapo on December 07, 2007, 11:00:45 PM
I miss Grattan from when I ran GLRRA back in the day (and AMA/CCS prior).  Has anyone seen it lately?  Looks ok from 24,000 ft on the way from MKE to DTW...  Has CCS even inquired lately?
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp on December 07, 2007, 11:51:13 PM
If CCS brings back Grattan I'll race for sure in 2008. No Joke! I love that track more than anything.
No track gives the feeling of Grattan. Road America comes close but not like Grattan. The hills, blind turns, jumping into turn 5 downhill decelerating while sliding the front tire all the way until you got to flip it to the next left.
The bowl kicks ass. The off camber! Nothing compares too it. Sliding sideways into the hairpin while it drops into the apex.
Now if they do it backwards I'll race ever race I can. That track makes black feel like parking lot races. I don't think Blackhawk has an elevation change of 1'.
If you've never been there you got to ride there. It will make a man out of your riding skills. Driving through Chicago is worth it for that track.
CCS used to race there. I don't know why they don't anymore. WERA does. They still hold a National Endurance Race there every year.
I did a 1:19.7 back in 2000 on my ZX6R. I love that track. I always say that track makes me so happy to ride motorcycles. 
Title: Re: MW and Blackhawk
Post by: Beaz on December 08, 2007, 06:32:44 PM
Im a fan of Gratten as well ill race there this year but it will probably be with wera :wtf:

John