So whats up with the practice before this event? I read a thread a while back about Nesba running the practice but that thread turned into a heated discussion over instructors and parasites.... So I'm not going to re-awaken that thread.
My point is, I'm on a shoestring budget and I need to get some practice in before my race since I've never been to RA. I'm driving all the way up there (from Alabama) just for the Solo Challenge so I'm not using that race for practice. BTW, quite frankly I don't like it when people go out in my race to practice and hot dog around... They don't keep a steady pace and get in my way slowing me down (especially those yellow plates).... But thats another issue.
I find it hard to believe that NESBA is charging $185 for the track plus an additional $75 for a membership fee for a total of $260 just to do 1 track day!!! Thats a lot of money 8). Is this true? I can't find good info on their website.
I know some of you guys say "tough luck, if you can't afford it get out, yada yada yada". I think its quite unfair to charge a mandatory membership fee for a pre-race track day; thats monopoly and taking unfair advantage of those on tight budgets. The Team Hammer Daytona practice is only $175 (which I happily pay)... Opinions anyone?
Quote from: zeroice on May 24, 2007, 01:25:43 PM
So whats up with the practice before this event? I read a thread a while back about Nesba running the practice but that thread turned into a heated discussion over instructors and parasites.... So I'm not going to re-awaken that thread.
My point is, I'm on a shoestring budget and I need to get some practice in before my race since I've never been to RA. I'm driving all the way up there (from Alabama) just for the Solo Challenge so I'm not using that race for practice. BTW, quite frankly I don't like it when people go out in my race to practice and hot dog around... They don't keep a steady pace and get in my way slowing me down (especially those yellow plates).... But thats another issue.
I find it hard to believe that NESBA is charging $185 for the track plus an additional $75 for a membership fee for a total of $260 just to do 1 track day!!! Thats a lot of money 8). Is this true? I can't find good info on their website.
I know some of you guys say "tough luck, if you can't afford it get out, yada yada yada". I think its quite unfair to charge a mandatory membership fee for a pre-race track day; thats monopoly and taking unfair advantage of those on tight budgets. The Team Hammer Daytona practice is only $175 (which I happily pay)... Opinions anyone?
I'm in the same boat as you. AFAIK, you must pay the membership fee. I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to recall from the other thread.
:pop:
going to melt some extra butter... anyone need anything while I'm up??
Quote from: tstruyk on May 24, 2007, 01:37:51 PM
going to melt some extra butter... anyone need anything while I'm up??
Yeah, could you get me a NESBA membership...
that'll be $75 dollars please, plus a $10 handling fee... and no I'm not trying to profit off you... :ass:
Quote from: zeroice on May 24, 2007, 01:25:43 PM
They don't keep a steady pace and get in my way slowing me down (especially those yellow plates).... But thats another issue.
must be a burden to have started out with white plates...
Quote from: zeroice on May 24, 2007, 01:25:43 PM
I find it hard to believe that NESBA is charging $185 for the track plus an additional $75 for a membership fee for a total of $260 just to do 1 track day!!! Thats a lot of money 8). Is this true? I can't find good info on their website.
Yes, it is true. Bottom line is that if you want to pratice, pay the money. Don't want to be a dick (I don't like it either) but that is the deal... :)
Those are the facts, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one...
Also, they have some hoops you need to jump thru to get into the Advanced Group so you can run w/o a parent watching you. NESBA treats these days like track days, not racer pratice, and they closely guard people in the B & I Groups. Which is cool...I had never run NESBA before last years RA Pratice and had to fax in my Expert License and some stuff last year to get into the "A" Group and run some hot laps at race pace...
Just to warn you ahead of time, you just cant walk in a sign up for the "A" Group w/ Nesba. (Which is fine)
practice is over rated anyway
some track clubs are just out to make money like any other business
Quote from: backMARKr on May 24, 2007, 01:57:00 PM
must be a burden to have started out with white plates...
agreed...
QuoteBTW, quite frankly I don't like it when people go out in my race
Ummmm its their race too...
if this guys isn't a commercial fisherman he has missed his calling.
Quote from: Jeff on May 24, 2007, 02:42:10 PM
if this guys isn't a commercial fisherman he has missed his calling.
LOL, I think the only thing he
didn't do is cast dispersions on a particular ethnic group.
like he said it would be fine if they didn't make you join there club
some us will never ride with them after that date so it does kinda suck.
Well you get 2 rounds of practice friday and 1 round each sat and sun.
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on May 24, 2007, 03:33:16 PM
Well you get 2 rounds of practice friday and 1 round each sat and sun.
Thanks to the tip the threadstarter gave me, I'm now doing the solo challenge for practice...
good thing you dont have yella plates anymore... :ass:
I should not have even started this thread...
Well, I can't afford $260, I got student loans to pay. Its hard enough to make it up there and spend money on fuel and tires. To spend an $100 over the typical trackday cost or to just throw away $75 for a membership fee that I will hardly benefit from is just not worth it...
If thats how NESBA runs the business, I'll never ride or recommend riding with that organization and I'll make sure I tell that to everyone I talk to!
...
I had a smile on my face and positive thoughts when this thread started, but now I'm starting to have negative emotions.. not cool, bad karma!
Quote from: r1owner on May 24, 2007, 03:35:42 PM
Thanks to the tip the threadstarter gave me, I'm now doing the solo challenge for practice...
Awesome idea....$175 extra, or is it less?
Quote from: 61Ex on May 24, 2007, 04:16:16 PM
Awesome idea....$175 extra, or is it less?
That's what i'm thinking as well.
QuoteI should not have even started this thread...
no kidding!!!
I think you just boosted the field in the Solo Challange by 500% making it the "official CCS/ASRA dont wanna pay the nesba fee practice slot"... maybe CCS will give you a discount for "promotion"??
for the record lotsa folks agree that its no fun to pay nesba that much for practice... but c'mon
this
QuoteBTW, quite frankly I don't like it when people go out in my race to practice and hot dog around... They don't keep a steady pace and get in my way slowing me down (especially those yellow plates)....
and this...
QuoteI think its quite unfair to charge a mandatory membership fee for a pre-race track day; thats monopoly and taking unfair advantage of those on tight budgets.
doesnt really equal this...
QuoteI had a smile on my face and positive thoughts when this thread started, but now I'm starting to have negative emotions.. not cool, bad karma!
Quote from: zeroice on May 24, 2007, 03:59:59 PM
Well, I can't afford $260, I got student loans to pay.
If your racing budget hinges on a lousy $75.00 you need to re-evaulate your hobby...Scrapbooking maybe for you?
It sucks that they just "happen" to pick these days, but oh well, what are you going to do about it? Pay it and pratice, or don't pay it and don't pratice...
If you hate it that much, rent the track next year during those days and hold your own track day and charge what you think is fair...
Otherwise bend over like the rest of us and pay the $75.00 extra fee :)
[
Quote from: zeroice on May 24, 2007, 03:59:59 PM
I should not have even started this thread...
Well, I can't afford $260, I got student loans to pay. Its hard enough to make it up there and spend money on fuel and tires. To spend an $100 over the typical trackday cost or to just throw away $75 for a membership fee that I will hardly benefit from is just not worth it...
If thats how NESBA runs the business, I'll never ride or recommend riding with that organization and I'll make sure I tell that to everyone I talk to!
You are quite confused..... Nesba did not rent the track for Race Practice, they rented the track for trackday riders. The fact that racers want to use that trackday for practice makes no difference to them, they have so many slots and when people fill them there is no more spots... No matter whether you are there to have fun, or practice for your race.
As for the cost, imagine what it costs to rent Road America for a day? I am only guessing but I would say around 20k a day, now imagine you are nesba and you are offering full refunds in case of bad weather... How much would you have to charge at an event to minimize your possible losses ( the track does not refund nesba, nesba just eats the 20K)? Nesba is Non-profit business, meaning at the end of the year they claim no profits, all income must be reinvested in the business ( trailers, websites, blah blah). So, in order to keep this business running, considering some events lose money and some make money, they must treat it as a business.
CCS is running an event no matter what, rain or shine or hail even (HPT), so they can offer lower costs because they do not have to build in these insurances. Also, Nesba limits the track density, so they must account for that also....
I wonder if CCS is not offering a practice day because the rental cost of the track is so high??
ugh nevermind... where's the dead horse smiley???
Quote from: tstruyk on May 24, 2007, 07:07:53 PM
ugh nevermind... where's the dead horse smiley???
Yeah..enough already with the "NESBA sucks" vs. " No it doesn't" discussion.
You guys are funny!
Quote from: red900 on May 24, 2007, 06:05:04 PM
You are quite confused..... Nesba did not rent the track for Race Practice, they rented the track for trackday riders.
I wonder if CCS is not offering a practice day because the rental cost of the track is so high??
Well, first, CCS is a racing organization. I don't know of any track that they rent for practice.
Second, if NESBA wanted to have a track day, there are other days to have it. Having it immedately, and I do mean IMMEDATELY before a CCS race does exploit the opportunity to get CCS racers that have NESBA cards to ride during their event for some kind of practice.
There are some that say pay the man for practice. Well, some people actually have a tighter budget than others. There was a time when motorcycle racing didn't have so many IT guys with money to spend. There was a time when there weren't track days all over either. Not that I find the fastest guys using track days for set up either.
Yes, NESBA has a product. You can decide to use it or not. As a licensed road racer, yeah, I want CCS to survive. Entering the Team Challenge is a great opportunity. Krishna, you're in a hard position as you need to be in that race. I don't have any good suggestions for you. Wish I did.
Quote from: Super Dave on May 25, 2007, 08:35:42 AM
Well, first, CCS is a racing organization. I don't know of any track that they rent for practice.
Second, if NESBA wanted to have a track day, there are other days to have it. Having it immedately, and I do mean IMMEDATELY before a CCS race does exploit the opportunity to get CCS racers that have NESBA cards to ride during their event for some kind of practice.
There are some that say pay the man for practice. Well, some people actually have a tighter budget than others. There was a time when motorcycle racing didn't have so many IT guys with money to spend. There was a time when there weren't track days all over either. Not that I find the fastest guys using track days for set up either.
Yes, NESBA has a product. You can decide to use it or not. As a licensed road racer, yeah, I want CCS to survive. Entering the Team Challenge is a great opportunity. Krishna, you're in a hard position as you need to be in that race. I don't have any good suggestions for you. Wish I did.
Yeah, who would use a lowely track day for help with set up.
Browsing the RA NESBA entry list:
Mike Beck
Maritn Cardenas
Jason Farrell
Andy F.
Bobby Fong
Brian Hall
Robert Jensen
Mark Junge
Jessica Z.
Geoff May
Scott Ryan
D. Sadowski
Chris Ulrich
No fast guys for sure.
LOL!
Yeah, it's track time, but I know of a few that are concerned about how much set up they will get done. For some, it's their first view of the track, period.
Even then, your list is for Memorial Day, right?
There's just a difference of opinion.
:pop:
Quote from: Super Dave on May 25, 2007, 08:35:42 AM
Well, first, CCS is a racing organization. I don't know of any track that they rent for practice.
Hey thanks for the correction. IT seems trackaddix is doing the same thing as Nesba this weekend at MAM, does that make them a proponent of IT guys instead of racers also?
Quote from: Super Dave on May 25, 2007, 08:35:42 AM
Well, some people actually have a tighter budget than others. There was a time when motorcycle racing didn't have so many IT guys with money to spend.
Something that breaks a budget is a $2500 Suspension Piece, or that $2500 motor, or that backup bike...NOT a $75.00 membership fee...
You got to pay to play...Bottom line...
While some people may feel "nickeled and dimed" that is different that breaking the bank on a $75.00 fee.
And leave IT guys out of this. There are other fields were a person can pull down 6+ figures with ease... :)
ummm trackaddix is the hosting organization of the races... its their series. You will find practice dates on every saturday prior to THEIR race weekend... last season they ran races on saturday, now they fit a full day of practice in on saturday and all the races on sundays. They offer slower groups for track day guys to help supplement the series to keep it alive. Is Nesba donating proceeds to CCS to help it survive?
Quote from: tstruyk on May 25, 2007, 10:18:46 AM
ummm trackaddix is the hosting organization of the races... its their series. You will find practice dates on every saturday prior to THEIR race weekend
Yeah, but I believe the Sam's Club-like fee($350) to join the trackaddix "club" is higher than NESBA's ($75?), AND T.A. cut classes out of the race schedule. Granted, with TA you also get a break on tires if you run 'stones. Apples and oranges. Can't please everyone.
If I remember right my NESBA membership gives a discount on tires and %50 off a WERA license. What else do you get with a NESBA membership Garth? Seems pretty cheap for the size and depth of the NESBA scheduleing and the tracks we are given access to. If you wanna race and be close to the podium, or on top of it, you do what's gotta be done.
IT $$$ guys are running up the prices of everything? Guess I better pack up and go back to the backroads TT-style racing on public roadways! :jerkoff:
I didn't have to pay any membership fee to practice with TA before the Gateway race last year.
assumptions... :banghead:
trackaddix motomania cost is OPTIONAL. you only pay that if you want discounted track days and cheap tires. it is not required.
Example: non motomania club member track day fee $165, motomania member (or whatever they are calling it) track day fee $99.
and for the love of pete why are you even bringing up them cutting classes as a comparison??? Good lord... you talk about apples and oranges then compare those same apples to F16's... :lmao:
What race series does Nesba run again??? oh they dont run one... leave the race series out of the discussion.
You guys are so funny...
When they have a parade, or a ball game, or a football game...You see those little tents and hot dog stands on street corners...
Now you are hungy, so you go over and buy a Hot Dog...WHAT $4.50 for a Hot Dog? I can get a whole package at Wal-Mart for That...
So the guy running it says - Then you carry a grill, and all the shit required to cook, store and serve that hot dog with you, then you can't bitch...But until then, pay the $4.50 bitch...
Business is Business is Business. Get over it.
I have nothing against NESBA, and I think it is a good business decision to secure pre race weekend dates, however those who think that this is just a coincidence are either blind, or just ignoring a blatant fact. Just about every trackday organization does this with race weekends of both wera and ccs. Nesba, Cornerspeed, Teampromotion, and SportbikeTracktime all do this as do others, and it is definatly with the purpose of increasing their revenue. Nothing wrong with it, as I said, its just good business.
True. it is a smart choice by NESBA to retain that date. it's smart for any track day org to get a date just before a race org has a weekend get together. the details of the org in question are still a knife in the kidney. but i think extract0r put it best.
Well, seeing CCS picked those dates(?), maybe they should have tried to get Thursday for practice. Either way, nothing can be done now. Pay and practice or don't. Really that simple.
The cost at the thursday at Infineon was $325 for 5 on track sessions. If you want to practice pay if not don't. I don't think NESBA is putting a gun to anyones head. Why should CCS take the risk and not have enough people show up anyway. Should CCS eat the loss? I can't stand how some racers think they are entitled to everything. The way i see it if it wasn't for NESBA you would even have the oppurtunity to practice. Oh sure you can do the solo events in CCS. What does that amount to 7 laps ? Lets see 7 laps or 7 20 min sessions you do the math.
Quote from: red900 on May 24, 2007, 06:05:04 PMAs for the cost, imagine what it costs to rent Road America for a day? I am only guessing but I would say around 20k a day, now imagine you are nesba and you are offering full refunds in case of bad weather... How much would you have to charge at an event to minimize your possible losses ( the track does not refund nesba, nesba just eats the 20K)? Nesba is Non-profit business, meaning at the end of the year they claim no profits, all income must be reinvested in the business ( trailers, websites, blah blah). So, in order to keep this business running, considering some events lose money and some make money, they must treat it as a business.
It may be possible NESBA didn't bring in as much money (to have to blow on equipment and such) as they would have liked to by not selling out absolutely every event (and maybe having a rain-out or 2 or 3), but an actual LOSS over the course of a season - no frikken way! (Do the math for yourself and see!) Today there are alot of people willing to pay alot of money to get on an actual RACE track, on a RACE bike, using RACE tires, while wearing RACE gear, but not actually RACE. I find it difficult to believe that Track Days put on by the big org's that cater to that crowd are anything but lucrative. The fact that some racers use those same days to try and get some additional track time is more out of the fact of there being very limited availablity to get on the majority of race tracks thruout the entire nation. I think almost every racer would rather go out on the track at a racer practice day that had alternating Amateur/Expert sessions than at a track day combined with street riders in any level group.
I also believe that most Track Day org's goal is not to be a stepping stone for riders to progess to racing, that's counter productive to their pocket books. After all, if it were a stepping stone into racing then why don't those same Track Day org's actually offer new racer licensing that's accredited with the major race org's? (To the best of my knowledge they don't)
Track Days have their place, and actual Racing has it's place, but in my opinion their goals are more different than similar and are too often confused as having a common goal. I look at the difference between Track Days and actual Racing the same as I do the difference between driving on the Interstate and Racing on a track - both are operating a vehicle in a restricted environment, but the situations are really quite different.
Quote from: fourandsix on May 26, 2007, 10:47:09 PM
The cost at the thursday at Infineon was $325 for 5 on track sessions. If you want to practice pay if not don't. I don't think NESBA is putting a gun to anyones head.
(holy crap-I agree with Rashid?) Way to go Jim. Fong was looking good. Where is he now, like in 5th overall?
Quote from: 61Ex on May 27, 2007, 07:17:33 AM
(holy crap-I agree with Rashid?)
[Cue Golden Earring music]
Help I'm stepping into the twilight zone
Place is a madhouse feels like being cloned
My beacon's been moved under moon and star
Where am I to go now that I've gone too far [/Cue Golden Earring music]
:ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh:
I do agree that trackday orgs aren't really a pure stepping stone to racing but there are some riders that do move to racing. In the old days the only way to get on a racetrack was to actually race. I think the trackday thing is good for all the riders that love to go fast on a bike but have no desire to race. Think of all the kids that play stick and ball sports but after high school have no chance to play ever again.
I agree it's better to have street riders going fast in a controlled environment, but my major complaint is with those that plan on or do progress to racing from Track Days. I have seen SOOOOOO many guys who planned on "just doing a few track days to get familiar with being on the track before I go racing" never end up going racing ever or get all freaked out once they do try it. Last season was a prime example, a couple of track day regulars showed up to BFR to get their race license and race the next day and proceeded to do just that, except what happened is they got so freaked out by actual racing that they decided not to race again because they needed to "do more track days to get better prepared for actual racing". To me doing more track days to better prepare for racing is a contradiction, the reason they were all freaked out is because they had never experienced close passing situations and bikes swapping paint due to the safety restraints in place at Track Days which require certain passing distances between bikes. That might be great for keeping crashes to a minimum at Track Days, but it also trains riders that there is going to be this 'buffer' around them that no one is supposed to enter. What those guys actually need is to do more RACING, and less Track Days to break those developed comfort zones.
I'm one of those that started racing when Track Days didn't exist, I went straight to racing from the street, that's what the AMATEUR class is supposed to be used for - learning (not for people who have literally put 1000's of miles on the track at Track Days and can finally run Top 10 Expert lap times). I think it's kind of sad that RACE tracks have departed from catering to true RACING org's 1st and now going to a mentality that it's all about the $$$$$$ and letting anyone have prime weekend dates that will pay the most money for them. The mentality shift by street riders that they "have just as much of a right to be on the RACE track on the weekends as racers do" is sad as well, I have heard them even go as far as saying that racers should have to race during the week because it's too expensive for the TRACK DAY RIDERS to miss work during the week and have to pay for the Track Day as well. WOW! Though I don't like 1 day race formats, I do like what Dean is doing at Track Addix to try and pull Track Day riders into racing by using the format that he does, I applaud that effort.
Overall, It's a tough situation. Cater to people who don't want to race but want to play on a race track, while at the same time allowing racers to still have the weekend dates needed so badly just to make it possible to have enough racers show up to make events competative. But on the other hand I also strongly believe that Track Days can act as a passifier to those who may have been thinking about getting into racing, in those cases I believe that many who would have raced will never make that step and will never know what they could have achieved in actual racing - when I see Track Day regulars who were just preparing to go racing with literally 100+ Track Days under their belt I see people who obviously missed out - it's too bad they never made the jump to actual racing!
Quote from: fourandsix on May 27, 2007, 11:28:25 AM
I do agree that trackday orgs aren't really a pure stepping stone to racing but there are some riders that do move to racing. In the old days the only way to get on a racetrack was to actually race. I think the trackday thing is good for all the riders that love to go fast on a bike but have no desire to race. Think of all the kids that play stick and ball sports but after high school have no chance to play ever again.
Come on now Jim, you're being modest here eh? If I remember right Fong is #5 for '07 overall in which AMA class? Don't you have somethin to do with that success?
(i know this ain't no anti-NESBA string along here, but let's help kevin out a little bit, ah?) :preachon:
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on May 27, 2007, 09:47:35 AM
[Cue Golden Earring music]
Help I'm stepping into the twilight zone
Place is a madhouse feels like being cloned
My beacon's been moved under moon and star
Where am I to go now that I've gone too far
[/Cue Golden Earring music]
:ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh:
Rob, you're right on the money there. The Twilight Zone of 20 or 30 years ago when folks could have a disagreement one day, and maybe actually agree on something a different day, the weeks or months later. :biggrin:
It's another fine day to be a motorcycle racer. All my aches and pains are gone by turn 1.
Mike, I think if you look really hard at the situation you will find that the tracks catering to the trackday orgs is a good thing. I don't see any of the race orgs complaining that they can't get enough weekends and if you take away the income from the trackday orgs then the tracks would have to raise the rent to the race orgs.
I would like to see a little more cooperation between the trackday orgs and the race orgs though. In a situation like the RA dates maybe there could be a reduced membership fee for a racer that has no intention of riding with the trackday org the rest of the season. Also, making it easier to get into the A group so that you can actually practice, or making a racer group for these specific weekends that is open only to licensed racers (and yes we amateurs are actually racers). All just wild ideas without much thought to viability (as I don't run a trackday org and don't know the logistics involved) but the idea is a little more cooperation and I think that we could all just get along.
WABBIT SEASON!!.......DUCK SEASON!!
:err:
I certainly don't look down on Amateur racers, everyone has to start somewhere, but in a perfect world the best situation is to have a true 'racer only' practice with Amateurs and Experts seperated.
My complaint with race tracks today is if you look at their schedule and see how many non-racing events are held on weekends (bikes, cars, etc.), my belief is that actual RACING should always have preference in scheduling over all other activities at RACE tracks - today that is no longer the case at many tracks. Those people looking to build a road course in Minnesota made it very clear that they would rent the track to anyone willing to pay the money, they clearly expressed there would be no priority in scheduling toward racing 1st for the weekend dates.
How long have we had that horrendous April event at Road America? From what I read there wasn't any availability in the past of other weekend dates for CCS to choose from in the 1st 1/2 of the season, yet how many of those dates were consumed by non-racing activities? With new non-racing org's popping up all the time the schedules will continue to become more and more restricted as to availability and that will continue to drive prices thru the roof due to supply and demand. I have lived in the same county as Blackhawk Farms Raceway my entire life, I remember not that long ago (mid - 90's) when BFR would actually have some weekend dates open - you won't find that today. With schedules filling up you would think that would bring down prices, but as I said before that's not the case, instead we have higher costs and less availability of weekend dates.
These are just my observations and opinions based on what I've personally seen over the last decade + that I've been racing, I'm certainly not saying I'm 100% correct, but I bet I'm pretty darn close to being correct as to the 'cause and effect' situations I've described.
WABBIT SEASON!!
I smell a new racing organization coming soon! :whine:
Really trying to stay out of this, but having a tough time...
1. NESBA having these days before the race weekend is PROVIDING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY to practice should you choose to take it. They didn't have to rent the track, they did. They have their own business to run and this weekend obviously made sense. But really, do any of us even know who booked first (NESBA/CCS)?? Who effen cares? If you want to run it, pay the fee.
2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe NESBA has changed policy or pricing for this event to gouge racers. The event would have the same fees/rules if it was held right before CCS, AMA, or in the middle of a month with no damned races...
WABBIT SEASON!!
Quote from: Hawk on May 28, 2007, 01:08:28 PMIn a situation like the RA dates maybe there could be a reduced membership fee for a racer that has no intention of riding with the trackday org the rest of the season.
Why should a company who's trying to turn a profit offer a discount to someone who comes up to them and says, "Hey, I'm never going to use your product again." That's like walking into the only restaurant around for hundreds of miles and saying, "Hey, I'm hungry, and never coming back here to eat again, but maybe I could get that hamburger for half-price."
I think that the regular repeat customers should get discounts, (oh wait, NESBA members do.)
It's pretty simple business economics isn't it. Supply and demand type stuff.
Ian
WABBIT SEASON!!!!
DUCK SEASON!!!
Bernard Season
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
STORK SEASON!!!
Quote from: Jeff on May 29, 2007, 10:02:23 AM
Who effen cares?
thats how you spell "f in"
learn something new every day
Quote from: nfcracin on May 29, 2007, 08:37:57 PM
STORK SEASON!!!
For God Sake's "Lonnie", spell my name correctly.....not like its as hard as spelling "Michaels" :wtf:
I had so much wanted to say while reading all five pages of this thread but by the time I got done reading all of it I forgot it all ahh
this is insanity!
whats the record on pages in a post?
I give up.
How many?
pfft... hasn't even made the top 10 yet..
http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php?action=stats
we'll have to keep trying
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!
DUCK SEASON!!!!
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!
only 100 more replies to get in the top 10.
:jerkoff:
KILL THE BABY SEALS!!
Oops...Sorry...I got carried away...
I have always hated seal.
I have nothing to ADD
Quote from: dylanfan53 on May 31, 2007, 08:47:22 PM
KILL THE BABY SEALS!!
Oops...Sorry...I got carried away...
It's fine Don......you're just getting in touch with your animal roots....
and BTW ......
DUCK SEASON!!!!
:finger: WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :finger:
DUCK SEASON!!!
:kicknuts:
a baby seal walks into a club...
Quote from: Jeff on June 04, 2007, 11:00:21 AM
a baby seal walks into a club...
And say's I'm not paying 75 bucks to join?
btw it's ground hog season. and while driving from alabama eat pb&js skip cracker barrel buy your gas at walmart and save the 75.00 .at daytona they told us to do the team challenge for practice.like dave was trying to say racing has become a rich mans sport.including a new bike last year it cost me $30,000.00 and i'm an amateur.trackdays are full of ex racers who can't afford to race but want to ride fast. I can't blame them. just trying to keep this BS going
ain't it great to finally have a good thread going again it's been weeks
and it's not even winter time.
if this dies down by then, it'll have to be fired back up.
Quote from: Ducmarc on June 04, 2007, 01:42:46 PM
btw it's ground hog season. and while driving from alabama eat pb&js skip cracker barrel buy your gas at walmart and save the 75.00 .at daytona they told us to do the team challenge for practice.like dave was trying to say racing has become a rich mans sport.including a new bike last year it cost me $30,000.00 and i'm an amateur.trackdays are full of ex racers who can't afford to race but want to ride fast. I can't blame them. just trying to keep this BS going
$30,000 what bike di you buy?
and and how many races did you do?
Quote from: Garywc on June 04, 2007, 03:55:36 PM
$30,000 what bike di you buy?
and and how many races did you do?
I think it was a Ducati 1098 Tri-colore.... just guessing.
I was very disturbed by the sense of entitlement some people on this thread had.
then I gizoogle dat shit and discoverd I could just laugh at you fools...
http://sites.gizoogle.com/index2.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccsforum.com%2Findex.php%2Ftopic%2C17291.0.html
That was $8,000 for the bike and $22,000 for racing all the fl and southeast plus ROC and daytona in march (hence the including part) and that's being cheep on tires. Not buying any track days one low side no engine failures and i live 1hr from daytona so no hotels at 200.00 a night.I know all you poor boys that buy two sets of tires a weekend and run to the GMD guy every time you can't feel the front end have spent more than that. This year I've got two wins one destoryed bike and $220,000.00 in hip repairs.
gizoogle''' wait one manizzle the alabama gang shur nuff love dat
it called me Jizzeff.. I don't know if I should laugh or cry...
That shizzle is funnnee..
Quote from: Super Dave on May 25, 2007, 08:35:42 AM
Well, first, CCS is a racing organization. I don't know of any track that they rent for practice.
Second, if NESBA wanted to have a track day, there are other days to have it. Having it immedately, and I do mean IMMEDATELY before a CCS race does exploit the opportunity to get CCS racers that have NESBA cards to ride during their event for some kind of practice.
There are some that say pay the man for practice. Well, some people actually have a tighter budget than others. There was a time when motorcycle racing didn't have so many IT guys with money to spend. There was a time when there weren't track days all over either. Not that I find the fastest guys using track days for set up either.
Yes, NESBA has a product. You can decide to use it or not. As a licensed road racer, yeah, I want CCS to survive. Entering the Team Challenge is a great opportunity. Krishna, you're in a hard position as you need to be in that race. I don't have any good suggestions for you. Wish I did.
I agree 110%!!! Well said
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on May 27, 2007, 12:56:54 PM
I agree it's better to have street riders going fast in a controlled environment, but my major complaint is with those that plan on or do progress to racing from Track Days. I have seen SOOOOOO many guys who planned on "just doing a few track days to get familiar with being on the track before I go racing" never end up going racing ever or get all freaked out once they do try it. Last season was a prime example, a couple of track day regulars showed up to BFR to get their race license and race the next day and proceeded to do just that, except what happened is they got so freaked out by actual racing that they decided not to race again because they needed to "do more track days to get better prepared for actual racing". To me doing more track days to better prepare for racing is a contradiction, the reason they were all freaked out is because they had never experienced close passing situations and bikes swapping paint due to the safety restraints in place at Track Days which require certain passing distances between bikes. That might be great for keeping crashes to a minimum at Track Days, but it also trains riders that there is going to be this 'buffer' around them that no one is supposed to enter. What those guys actually need is to do more RACING, and less Track Days to break those developed comfort zones.
I'm one of those that started racing when Track Days didn't exist, I went straight to racing from the street, that's what the AMATEUR class is supposed to be used for - learning (not for people who have literally put 1000's of miles on the track at Track Days and can finally run Top 10 Expert lap times). I think it's kind of sad that RACE tracks have departed from catering to true RACING org's 1st and now going to a mentality that it's all about the $$$$$$ and letting anyone have prime weekend dates that will pay the most money for them. The mentality shift by street riders that they "have just as much of a right to be on the RACE track on the weekends as racers do" is sad as well, I have heard them even go as far as saying that racers should have to race during the week because it's too expensive for the TRACK DAY RIDERS to miss work during the week and have to pay for the Track Day as well. WOW! Though I don't like 1 day race formats, I do like what Dean is doing at Track Addix to try and pull Track Day riders into racing by using the format that he does, I applaud that effort.
Overall, It's a tough situation. Cater to people who don't want to race but want to play on a race track, while at the same time allowing racers to still have the weekend dates needed so badly just to make it possible to have enough racers show up to make events competative. But on the other hand I also strongly believe that Track Days can act as a passifier to those who may have been thinking about getting into racing, in those cases I believe that many who would have raced will never make that step and will never know what they could have achieved in actual racing - when I see Track Day regulars who were just preparing to go racing with literally 100+ Track Days under their belt I see people who obviously missed out - it's too bad they never made the jump to actual racing!
Know this thread is old, but just want to say I am glad someone thinks the same way I do.
What a well written post. Keep it up Mike!!!!
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on May 27, 2007, 12:56:54 PM
I agree it's better to have street riders going fast in a controlled environment, but my major complaint is with those that plan on or do progress to racing from Track Days. I have seen SOOOOOO many guys who planned on "just doing a few track days to get familiar with being on the track before I go racing" never end up going racing ever or get all freaked out once they do try it. Last season was a prime example, a couple of track day regulars showed up to BFR to get their race license and race the next day and proceeded to do just that, except what happened is they got so freaked out by actual racing that they decided not to race again because they needed to "do more track days to get better prepared for actual racing". To me doing more track days to better prepare for racing is a contradiction, the reason they were all freaked out is because they had never experienced close passing situations and bikes swapping paint due to the safety restraints in place at Track Days which require certain passing distances between bikes. That might be great for keeping crashes to a minimum at Track Days, but it also trains riders that there is going to be this 'buffer' around them that no one is supposed to enter. What those guys actually need is to do more RACING, and less Track Days to break those developed comfort zones.
I'm one of those that started racing when Track Days didn't exist, I went straight to racing from the street, that's what the AMATEUR class is supposed to be used for - learning (not for people who have literally put 1000's of miles on the track at Track Days and can finally run Top 10 Expert lap times). I think it's kind of sad that RACE tracks have departed from catering to true RACING org's 1st and now going to a mentality that it's all about the $$$$$$ and letting anyone have prime weekend dates that will pay the most money for them. The mentality shift by street riders that they "have just as much of a right to be on the RACE track on the weekends as racers do" is sad as well, I have heard them even go as far as saying that racers should have to race during the week because it's too expensive for the TRACK DAY RIDERS to miss work during the week and have to pay for the Track Day as well. WOW! Though I don't like 1 day race formats, I do like what Dean is doing at Track Addix to try and pull Track Day riders into racing by using the format that he does, I applaud that effort.
Overall, It's a tough situation. Cater to people who don't want to race but want to play on a race track, while at the same time allowing racers to still have the weekend dates needed so badly just to make it possible to have enough racers show up to make events competative. But on the other hand I also strongly believe that Track Days can act as a passifier to those who may have been thinking about getting into racing, in those cases I believe that many who would have raced will never make that step and will never know what they could have achieved in actual racing - when I see Track Day regulars who were just preparing to go racing with literally 100+ Track Days under their belt I see people who obviously missed out - it's too bad they never made the jump to actual racing!
I totaly agree w mike. I too went from street to race, no trackdays. Was never really into trackdays; they do not carry the same spirit. Trackdays are just not satisfying...
But I do need the practice before the race to become familiar with the track... not to get comfortable with going fast or passing at close proximities.
Those that say they need more trackdays to get faster before they start racing should just give up. You have the wrong attitude.
Quote from: Super Dave on May 25, 2007, 08:35:42 AM
Well, first, CCS is a racing organization. I don't know of any track that they rent for practice.
Second, if NESBA wanted to have a track day, there are other days to have it. Having it immedately, and I do mean IMMEDATELY before a CCS race does exploit the opportunity to get CCS racers that have NESBA cards to ride during their event for some kind of practice.
There are some that say pay the man for practice. Well, some people actually have a tighter budget than others. There was a time when motorcycle racing didn't have so many IT guys with money to spend. There was a time when there weren't track days all over either. Not that I find the fastest guys using track days for set up either.
Yes, NESBA has a product. You can decide to use it or not. As a licensed road racer, yeah, I want CCS to survive. Entering the Team Challenge is a great opportunity. Krishna, you're in a hard position as you need to be in that race. I don't have any good suggestions for you. Wish I did.
Thanks for your 2 cents Dave, that is very well put!
Supply and demand, looks like i'm gonna fork my hard earned cash over to nesba, bend over and take it :ass:
Hello, for those of you who do not know me I would like to introduce myself. I am Garth Cloyd, Midwest Director of Operations for NESBA. Several of you CCS racers have expressed great concern with regards to our track day event being held prior to your races.
Since NESBA is based on customer service, while providing a safe, structured, and organized venue for riders to develope their skills.........
.........it has been decided in oder to address and elliminate these concerns that: No CCS licensed racers will be allowed to participate in this track day event.
Thank You
:pop:
Quote from: G 97 on June 05, 2007, 11:40:12 PM
Since NESBA is based on customer service, while providing a safe, structured, and organized venue for riders to develope their skills.........
So if I'm reading this correctly:
NESBA is only for riders looking "to develope their skills", not for already skilled riders?
Quote from: G 97 on June 05, 2007, 11:40:12 PM
No CCS licensed racers will be allowed to participate in this track day event.
As sad as a blanket decision like this is, it's good to see public confirmation (especially by someone in a position of power) of what I was saying about the goals and priorities of some of the Track Day organizations.
THANKS! :thumb:
Hey Bad Ass GSXR "Racer" Mike. Please feel free to show up at any NESBA trackday event as my guest, free of charge - In the advance group. If no "lowly" track day rider does not lap you - I will give you $1,000.00....... If you do not get lapped.... I WILL GIVE YOU $1,000.......YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Show Up Mr. Fast guy racer....You talk the talk Blah.... Blah.... Blah..... Blah. I know of several NESBA track day riders who can and will smoke you at any track..... at any time.
It does not matter to me, but you seem to take issue with track days and track day riders. Put up or STFU already.
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on June 06, 2007, 12:35:41 AM
So if I'm reading this correctly:
NESBA is only for riders looking "to develope their skills", not for already skilled riders?
I have no idea if you are reading this correctly. In fact ,I struggle with what in th hell you are talking about most of the time - but what I can assure you is that you are not comprehending anything correctly.
Where did I make the stipulation of "only"?
Where did I put any restrictions or qualifications in regrards to trackdays????? Yes, NESBA is all about developing rider skill, but please do not make this a limit point. NESBA is not limited to offering an enviroment for non racers. Our Advanced group is more than capable to handle this.
If you don't think that racers need a place to further develkop their skill level then I only have one question to ask of you: Please name one racer who is not constantly trying to develop their skill????
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on June 06, 2007, 12:35:41 AM
As sad as a blanket decision like this is, it's good to see public confirmation (especially by someone in a position of power) of what I was saying about the goals and priorities of some of the Track Day organizations.
THANKS! :thumb:
You have no idea. Keep talking Blah Blah Blah :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :lmao: :rollseyes: :sleeping2:
YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
Quote from: G 97 on June 05, 2007, 11:40:12 PM
.........it has been decided in oder to address and elliminate these concerns that: No CCS licensed racers will be allowed to participate in this track day event.
Thank You
??? is this for real???
Good question. How would one police that? I suppose that riders found to be in violation of that would be placed at the back of the grid...wait...
And does that also eliminate all the licensed riders that also participate as control riders...
UUUUMMMMMMM.............
WABBIT SEASON????
Wow - you guys can't even understand sarcasm when it walks right up and kicks you in the nuts... :kicknuts:
Quote from: Bigsexy on June 06, 2007, 01:24:14 AM
??? is this for real???
No it is not for real. Dave is right - no way to police it plus i will never restrict anyone from doing an event. It just becomes tiresome when the same old same old know-it-alls, who have never even participated in a NESBA event - let alone run and manage an event seem to think they know EVERYTHING from financials to riding groups.
Would you expect less?
I wouldn't expect such a sarcastic reply about something potentially important to an organization from a person at a level that could put out specific information. Additionally, it's hard to hear any inflection on internet message boards. If Eric Kelcher, as an example, stated on an internet message board that a particular race was going to be canceled, moved, etc...it would create a problem.
No need to make more work for anyone on either side. Whether it's sarcasm or not, I suppose you have to go back to the source for honest clarification.
G don't get too excited. There will always be haters...
If you went out of your way to shaft racers, then I might be on the bandwagon, but that's simply not the case here in my opinion...
Quote from: Jeff on June 06, 2007, 09:44:03 AM
G don't get too excited. There will always be haters...
If you went out of your way to shaft racers, then I might be on the bandwagon, but that's simply not the case here in my opinion...
Please let me know what I can and can not post so I can avoid having any more of my post modified and changed by Super Dave. GSXR Mike can post about things he has no clue about while making underhanded comments towards track day orgs and riders, yet his post do not get modified. I call him out and ask him where he gets his info and my post gets edited. Nice.
Quote from: Super Dave on June 06, 2007, 09:21:09 AM
Would you expect less?
I wouldn't expect such a sarcastic reply about something potentially important to an organization from a person at a level that could put out specific information. Additionally, it's hard to hear any inflection on internet message boards. If Eric Kelcher, as an example, stated on an internet message board that a particular race was going to be canceled, moved, etc...it would create a problem.
No need to make more work for anyone on either side. Whether it's sarcasm or not, I suppose you have to go back to the source for honest clarification.
Why do you care Dave?
This is good reading.
Here is how i see it. We live in a free market economy. NESBA or who ever is completely free to host an event where ever and when ever they want to. they are also free to charge what ever they want to. They could charge $10,000 an event..thats their right. If they are having no problems filling their events at their prices, then more power to them. My personal feeling is they are over priced, as is their membership. Their are plenty of other organizations that let me on track cheaper. If NESBA were having problems filling their events, they would probably be willing to lower fees and memberships. Couldn't another organization scoop up those dates next year? I am sure they would have no problem filling their event.
If you feel NESBA's fees are to high, don't attend their events. Its that simple. If enough people feel that way, they will be forced to lower their costs. Thats how a free market economy works. No one is forcing anyone to attend their events, so don't bitch about the cost if you do go.
Garth,
You can post whatever you like. If things get out of hand we'll lock the post. While your comment was a direct attack and will be fuel to the fire, it's your comment to make.
Here you go Garth, have it back...
Original text from Garth:
Quote
"Seriously GSXR Racer Mike you don't have a clue dude. You think you do but you have diarrhea of the mouth and you are so WRONG on so many issues I can't even start to address them. Where do you get all of this information with regards to track days and tracks anyway? How do you know? "
+1 jeff or is it jefzz.when i decided to race agian I went to NESBA I PAID MY DUES and was able to bring me and my bike up to speed. they are good fair people the orginal complaint was did not want to pay the dues. I PAID MY DUES. and where are you going to ride when you can"t win anymore. the dragon ... please. we race flat land down here I track dayed road atlanta (never rode elevaitons) what an experanice then when I went to VIR I was ready BTW Jeff May was track daying at road atlanta and he ain't slow..... that's 108 whats the record?
no that was 111 this is 112
Wow, totally missed this, I've been working too hard.
Many of us can say "back in the day :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:...", but fact is, trackday organizers are adding options for all riders and racers. It's a reality, it's not going away, so deal. Nesba and the rest of them are fair across the board. Generally they are not taking any dates away from race orgs as I know it. (I have been known to be wrong on occasion).
So yeah, back in the day, we had no trackdays, you raced or rode on the street. If you raced, you would have to rent the track with your buddies to get track time. Guess how often that occurred?
It's a free marketplace, Tracks need to make money to stay in business, so they rent to whomever is willing to pay the fees. I think if CCS thought that doing practice/track days would make a profit, they might do it. If I remember right, the LP rider days did not work out so well for them.
Everyone take a deep breath and chill. It a damn nice day out. :biggrin:
Quote from: Court Jester on June 06, 2007, 08:49:42 AM
UUUUMMMMMMM.............
WABBIT SEASON????
Well, Mike....I would have to say..............
DUCK SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh not this time buddy boy. It's
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Court Jester on June 06, 2007, 06:41:12 PM
Oh not this time buddy boy. It's
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OHHHH NO NO ,my friend...
IT'S DUCK SEASON!!!!!
Quote from: Super Dave on June 06, 2007, 08:35:22 AM
Good question. How would one police that? I suppose that riders found to be in violation of that would be placed at the back of the grid...wait...
And does that also eliminate all the licensed riders that also participate as control riders...
Hahaha, back of the grid, aint that funny.... Hmm, speaking of grids.... Let me see here, ahh yes... MAM, a couple weeks ago... I seem to remember seeing you on the track.. You may want to consider some trackday time with NESBA.....
I think I'll go downstairs to Seibken's bar and have another while you guys sort this out. I'm doing a track day tomorrow at RA....
Hey Dano...your pic is behind the bar and the barmaid put your helmet up above. She said you're cute.
P.S. Thanks to the Bistro for the bandwidth. :cheers:
In my posts in this thread I stated how I felt that Track Days and Racing are really quite different in their goals, but often times they get confused as being very similar because they both utilize motorcycles on racetracks. I also stated that given a choice I believe that most racers would much rather be on the track at a 'racer only' practice day (preferably seperated Amatuer and Expert) than at a Track Day with street riders - even in the advanced group. The reason for this is because racers (especially Experts) generally have the definite advantage of having experienced close quarters racing, something most street riders have not. Years ago I personally was taken out by a street rider at a Track Day, 2 years ago at the last Track Day I did in the advanced group I was almost taken out several different times during the day by street riders (riders that were running both faster and slower than my pace that day). Thinking back on all the 'racer only' practices I have done in the last decade I have only had a few situations ever were I was almost taken out, those few times at 'racer only' practices combined together would equal about what I experienced at that 1 single Track Day. The difference in my opinion between Track Day riders and racers is generally predictability and experience with sudden situations in close proximity, sure a Track Day rider may be able to run the same lap time as an Expert racer, but who would a racer rather have near them on the track? That's certainly not meant as any type of cut-down, it's just that experience is such a huge advantage.
At no time in this entire thread have I stated that I'm faster than ANYONE (racer or track day rider), where did that came from? I have stated so many times, both here and on other sites, how I'm NOT a fast guy (I WAS back in the late 90's when I ran times on my supersport legal bike that would have put me mid-pack in the AMA Superbike grids, but I chose not to be now). How this turned into being about who's faster isn't the point of any of what I have said here.
Also, at no point did I say that the NESBA Track Day in question in this thread should be a 'racer only' practice, if someone want's to participate in that event then more power to them! All I stated in reference to that was given the choice I believe most racers would prefer to have a 'racer only' practice over a Track Day, the choice to run the NESBA day is up to each individual - pure and simple. As far as the cost, well if you want to play then you gotta pay what NESBA is asking, it's their choice to charge whatever they want.
My issue with many Track Day org's is the fact that they are relatively new, yet they are already consuming alot of the oh so valuable weekend dates. My concern is that with the rate of growth in Track Days, and the ever expanding list of Track Day org's and their need for more and more dates, that they will start to smother out actual racing within the next 5 to 10 years (based on what I have seen happen since around 2000). I know many people only look at what's in front of their face currently and don't concern themselves with what's further down the road, I'm not one of those people. I truely care about where our sport is going and what is going to be the path taking us there, I believe that by opening some more people's eyes as to what could potentially be happening, that maybe we can save our sport. With the not so distant memory of CCS almost closing it's doors it really got me thinking as to WHY this situation even exists in the 1st place for the largest motorcycle road racing organization in the U.S.A., that led me to my current opinions on the influences of too many Track Day org's.
I look at the 3-1/2 year turn over rate of racers as 'generations', currently I'm seeing about the 4th generation of CCS racers since I started racing - I certainly hope I get to see the 5th and 6th.
Wow. What a thread.... I won't get into the crap about paying a membership fee and such. I typed a reply a few days ago. I didn't waste my time posting my opinions.
I'm a proud Nesba member. I was scheduled for a race license school about 12 yrs ago and an accident on the street ended that. 12 years later, I find out about track days. What a great idea! So I buy a bike and gear and go to a race school for my first time on a track. I decided to do a few Nesba events before I went and raced. I found out quickly that I felt that I was not ready to race!
I spent a season doing track days and learning so much more then I ever thought was possible. I did my first races a few weeks ago. I had a great time! I'll be back to do more races. But I'll still do more track days as well. I feel the track time and skills I learned in the past year made me a safer and much better rider. I was amazed how many racers have no idea how to hold a line or smoothly operate the brakes and throttle let alone have any "race craft."
Who in their right mind wouldn't want to learn in a structured environment that teaches you while minimizing risk. I couldn't have thought of a better way to learn about track riding before going racing.
Don't you think that giving street riders exposure to the track is helping the industry! I remember trying to find race glass 12 yrs ago. I couldn't! Now you have choices of many brands. The same goes for all the racing gear.
I have to believe that track days are a great way to provide exposure to the sport. Not everyone has the skill to be an expert racer. Not everyone has the budget, commitment or drive to be a racer at any level. But track days allow anyone to come out and explore the potential of their bike. It allows them to feel like a racer for a day. Come out to a Nesba event and see how excited new track riders are after their first day. I see new faces at track days every week. But last weeks new faces are this weeks new regulars.
To each their own. See you out there. Track day or race. I'm just glad to be on my bike and carving corners. :thumb:
Quote from: backMARKr on June 06, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
OHHHH NO NO ,my friend...
IT'S DUCK SEASON!!!!!
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on June 07, 2007, 12:10:08 AM
(I WAS back in the late 90's when I ran times on my supersport legal bike that would have put me mid-pack in the AMA Superbike grids, but I chose not to be now).
OKey- dokie So you were running 2:17' at RA on a 600 in the late 1990's? Sorry dude, noway, nohow. Even if you were running 19' to 20's which would put you squarly in the middle it would alos have put you in contention for Poll in the Supersport races. Sorry dude, no way. But of course there is no record so you can pull anything out.
You seem to be confusing street bike riders with track day riders.
In any event, Mike you have your opionions based on very little to no expereinces. It reminds me of a group called the Flatlanders who to this day have the opinion that the world is not round but is flat. Yes, you have an opinion. A misinformed one, but hey it never stops you.
I am also reminded about the ESPN commercial where one guy's sport knowlege is lacking and he is always talking out of his azz about sports and making way off comments - until he gets the ESPN updater. (Dude, you need a race updater).
As far as trackday orgs taking dates please be specific, I would like to know what dates I have been taking from race orgs.
Garth - I'm willing to bet that Mike is talking about the BHF trackdays. I was hit and almost taken out at one of those too.
To you NESBA haters - especially Mike - What is it exactly that you hate??
1 - You state that NESBA are stealing your dates - yet CCS have a weekend date at Road America and NESBA do not.
2 - You equatet Trackday riders to Street riders (a cowardly back-handed assault on our skill level) - yet whenever a NESBA CR decides to come out and race, they realize GREAT succsess (Marshall, Dustin Boyd, Chris Frye).
3 - You claim that one doesn't learn to race at a trackday - yet complain that fast Novice racers (Marshall) shouldn't be in Novice because he's turning times faster than many experts.
4 - You complain that Trackday riders get spooked in close quarters - yet you get all up in arms when Marshal talks about - God forbid - "Standing someone up."
5 - You claim that "racers" prefer "racer practice" - yet Geoff May, Andy Fauhsthaller (sp?), Mark Junge, Matt Farrell, Tony Meiring... etc don't seem to mind (I was passed by 'em all, and proud of it!).
What gives? Am I missing something?
Also - Mike and others - Why do you think track safety has improved significantly in the past 10 years? It isn't because racing is any more popular. It's because the population of motorcyclists on those racetracks has increased several times over due to, GASP, trackdays!
...and I am sick and G*D-D#MN tired of being refered to, by you Mike, as a "Street Rider."
Is crack on sale???
Let's just show some love and be happy for a change.
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/courtjesterracing1/l_7738c303a96fcc87c7bf8ac99100fe4a.jpg)
Love season??
:thumb: :cheers:
just cause I havent responded in awhile and its a slow day in the office...
Morph, isnt refering to street riders in your terms a little backhanded in itself? :rollseyes:
There is a HUGE disparity between the average "street rider" and the seasoned "track day rider"... One can also argue that the skill sets of someone who has RACED lets say... 3000 laps in a competitive environment, whether it be ex or am, will be greatly different from someone who has turned say 3000 laps in a track day environment. Would you agree?
Racing is just... different. Nothing can prepare you for the mental side of it except doing it. You bring up Marshall...
Marshall rode at how many track days before he started racing? I am guessing based on his posts on the Nesba forum it was well over 70 track days... 70 track days (might be pushing closer to 100 but I'll be conservative). I dont care who you are, your going to figure some things out with that much seat time. Period. So lets take 70 track days and multiply each one my 6 sessions, and then 6 sessions by lets say 8 laps. thats 3,360 laps around a race track... give or take.
Now compare that experience to someone of similar ability (or potential) who only races... and lets say they do no GT's, 3 sprints (8 laps) a weekend, 2 practices (8 laps each) on sat one (8 laps) on sunday. That makes the math easy. Assuming (just for arguments sake) that person competes in 7 events a year. Would you say that the full time competitive racer with 10 years under his belt is more, or less prepared to race than Marshall? Go back and read his articles... and tell me if Marshall has the same "experience" as a 10 year veteran. Yes track days can help you find speed, but they dont teach you to race.
I think THATS the point Mike was trying to make.
I didn't get the impression that he was attacking street guys, or track day guys... but the ego's get bruised when someone "insults" your skills by calling you what you are? He is referring to, very simply, "non racers". Yes there are Track Day guys that can run faster lap times than half the expert grid at any given time. But if you poll 100 racers and ask who they would rather run elbow to elbow with... I don't think its unrealistic to foresee the results skewed heavily.
Preference and necessity are 2 very different things. I would think that Jeff, Andy, Tony and all the other names you dropped, would prefer to be in a racer only practice. Ask some of the bottom 3rd AMA guys how cordial some of the factory guys are when you "get in their way" during practice. Now imagine how they feel running at a TD. The truth is, TD's offer an available, relatively inexpensive opportunity for them to get some seat time, but dont confuse that with "prefering to be there". I dont "prefer" to go to the dentist, but I do...
Just as people are "hatin" on NESBA, you cant expect everyone to fall in love with them either. Its a business, you are never going to keep every client happy, nor is every person you meet a potential customer. In my business I deal with people everyday who simply "arent my client". You dont get mad, you dont insult them, you dont call them out... you just move on. They arent, and never will be, "your client".
To be honest I am shocked at some of the comments specifically from Garth... I would think that a person in your position would choose his comments in an open forum more carefully. You are obviously passionate about your position, but frankly... if any of my employee's expressed their opinions in such a brash tone in an open forum that contains a connection to a LARGE portion of my customer base... they would be looking for other employment. But its not my company... and clearly you are still employed so its really a non-issue... just sayin.
Quote from: tstruyk on June 07, 2007, 01:09:39 PM
just cause I havent responded in awhile and its a slow day in the office...
Morph, isnt refering to street riders in your terms a little backhanded in itself? :rollseyes:
There is a HUGE disparity between the average "street rider" and the seasoned "track day rider"... One can also argue that the skill sets of someone who has RACED lets say... 3000 laps in a competitive environment, whether it be ex or am, will be greatly different from someone who has turned say 3000 laps in a track day environment. Would you agree?
Racing is just... different. Nothing can prepare you for the mental side of it except doing it. You bring up Marshall...
Marshall rode at how many track days before he started racing? I am guessing based on his posts on the Nesba forum it was well over 70 track days... 70 track days (might be pushing closer to 100 but I'll be conservative). I dont care who you are, your going to figure some things out with that much seat time. Period. So lets take 70 track days and multiply each one my 6 sessions, and then 6 sessions by lets say 8 laps. thats 3,360 laps around a race track... give or take.
Now compare that experience to someone of similar ability (or potential) who only races... and lets say they do no GT's, 3 sprints (8 laps) a weekend, 2 practices (8 laps each) on sat one (8 laps) on sunday. That makes the math easy. Assuming (just for arguments sake) that person competes in 7 events a year. Would you say that the full time competitive racer with 10 years under his belt is more, or less prepared to race than Marshall? Go back and read his articles... and tell me if Marshall has the same "experience" as a 10 year veteran. Yes track days can help you find speed, but they dont teach you to race.
I think THATS the point Mike was trying to make.
I didn’t get the impression that he was attacking street guys, or track day guys... but the ego's get bruised when someone "insults" your skills by calling you what you are? He is referring to, very simply, "non racers". Yes there are Track Day guys that can run faster lap times than half the expert grid at any given time. But if you poll 100 racers and ask who they would rather run elbow to elbow with... I don’t think its unrealistic to foresee the results skewed heavily.
Preference and necessity are 2 very different things. I would think that Jeff, Andy, Tony and all the other names you dropped, would prefer to be in a racer only practice. Ask some of the bottom 3rd AMA guys how cordial some of the factory guys are when you "get in their way" during practice. Now imagine how they feel running at a TD. The truth is, TD's offer an available, relatively inexpensive opportunity for them to get some seat time, but dont confuse that with "prefering to be there". I dont "prefer" to go to the dentist, but I do...
Just as people are "hatin" on NESBA, you cant expect everyone to fall in love with them either. Its a business, you are never going to keep every client happy, nor is every person you meet a potential customer. In my business I deal with people everyday who simply "arent my client". You dont get mad, you dont insult them, you dont call them out... you just move on. They arent, and never will be, "your client".
To be honest I am shocked at some of the comments specifically from Garth... I would think that a person in your position would choose his comments in an open forum more carefully. You are obviously passionate about your position, but frankly... if any of my employee's expressed their opinions in such a brash tone in an open forum that contains a connection to a LARGE portion of my customer base... they would be looking for other employment. But its not my company... and clearly you are still employed so its really a non-issue… just sayin.
Well said, I agree
Quote from: tstruyk on June 07, 2007, 01:09:39 PM
just cause I havent responded in awhile and its a slow day in the office...
Morph, isnt refering to street riders in your terms a little backhanded in itself? :rollseyes:
There is a HUGE disparity between the average "street rider" and the seasoned "track day rider"... One can also argue that the skill sets of someone who has RACED lets say... 3000 laps in a competitive environment, whether it be ex or am, will be greatly different from someone who has turned say 3000 laps in a track day environment. Would you agree?
Racing is just... different. Nothing can prepare you for the mental side of it except doing it. You bring up Marshall...
Marshall rode at how many track days before he started racing? I am guessing based on his posts on the Nesba forum it was well over 70 track days... 70 track days (might be pushing closer to 100 but I'll be conservative). I dont care who you are, your going to figure some things out with that much seat time. Period. So lets take 70 track days and multiply each one my 6 sessions, and then 6 sessions by lets say 8 laps. thats 3,360 laps around a race track... give or take.
Now compare that experience to someone of similar ability (or potential) who only races... and lets say they do no GT's, 3 sprints (8 laps) a weekend, 2 practices (8 laps each) on sat one (8 laps) on sunday. That makes the math easy. Assuming (just for arguments sake) that person competes in 7 events a year. Would you say that the full time competitive racer with 10 years under his belt is more, or less prepared to race than Marshall? Go back and read his articles... and tell me if Marshall has the same "experience" as a 10 year veteran. Yes track days can help you find speed, but they dont teach you to race.
I think THATS the point Mike was trying to make.
I didn’t get the impression that he was attacking street guys, or track day guys... but the ego's get bruised when someone "insults" your skills by calling you what you are? He is referring to, very simply, "non racers". Yes there are Track Day guys that can run faster lap times than half the expert grid at any given time. But if you poll 100 racers and ask who they would rather run elbow to elbow with... I don’t think its unrealistic to foresee the results skewed heavily.
Preference and necessity are 2 very different things. I would think that Jeff, Andy, Tony and all the other names you dropped, would prefer to be in a racer only practice. Ask some of the bottom 3rd AMA guys how cordial some of the factory guys are when you "get in their way" during practice. Now imagine how they feel running at a TD. The truth is, TD's offer an available, relatively inexpensive opportunity for them to get some seat time, but dont confuse that with "prefering to be there". I dont "prefer" to go to the dentist, but I do...
Just as people are "hatin" on NESBA, you cant expect everyone to fall in love with them either. Its a business, you are never going to keep every client happy, nor is every person you meet a potential customer. In my business I deal with people everyday who simply "arent my client". You dont get mad, you dont insult them, you dont call them out... you just move on. They arent, and never will be, "your client".
To be honest I am shocked at some of the comments specifically from Garth... I would think that a person in your position would choose his comments in an open forum more carefully. You are obviously passionate about your position, but frankly... if any of my employee's expressed their opinions in such a brash tone in an open forum that contains a connection to a LARGE portion of my customer base... they would be looking for other employment. But its not my company... and clearly you are still employed so its really a non-issue… just sayin.
I am shocked as well, oh the horror. FYI racers are not my customer base.
Guys who obtain a race license and grid up once in a while and turn mid pack Intermediate times are deluding themselves into thinking that they are "racers".
Why do you care anyway? I feel that someone like yourself taking issue with me is pretty good validation that I am doing things correctly.
FYI FWIW, I am not an employee of NESBA. But since making assumptions and having opinions based on miss-information seems to be the norm around here, you fit right in.
Quote from: G 97 on June 07, 2007, 03:21:43 PM
Guys who obtain a race license and grid up once in a while and turn mid pack Intermediate times are deluding themselves into thinking that they are "racers".
Hmm, where are CSB 3:16 guys when you need them? Well, i think it goes like this: Amen......
Quote from: G 97 on June 07, 2007, 03:21:43 PM
Guys who obtain a race license and grid up once in a while and turn mid pack Intermediate times are deluding themselves into thinking that they are "racers".
So only the front pack runners in a race, are real "racers?" The rest are just delusional wannabe racers? There are mid-pack "racers" who turn 1:24s or 1:25s at Summit, and they are well, in middle of the pack. Last I checked you had some Nesba CR "racers" putting down those times. I guess you better tell them they are not racers
http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=415365
http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=506920
I have seen several of your posts on various message boards. I don't know you, but you sure come off as an arrogant, pompous a$$. I am shocked that someone who is supposed to be represnting the nation's biggest track day organization, would post such material. You are not representing your organization very well at all
Quote from: DavidV on June 07, 2007, 03:39:44 PM
So only the front pack runners in a race, are real "racers?" The rest are just delusional wannabe racers? There are mid-pack "racers" who turn 1:24s or 1:25s at Summit, and they are well, in middle of the pack. Last I checked you had some Nesba CR "racers" putting down those times. I guess you better tell them they are not racers
http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=415365
http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=506920
I have seen several of your posts on various message boards. I don't know you, but you sure come off as an arrogant, pompous a$$. I am shocked that someone who is supposed to be represnting the nation's biggest track day organization, would post such material. You are not representing your organization very well at all
At times I wonder if people even read the prior post befor posting?
Please show me all of these arrogant posts that I have made. I would like to see them. You come off like a whiney little girl.
QuoteI am shocked that someone who is supposed to be represnting the nation's biggest track day organization, would post such material. You are not representing your organization very well at all
People ride to their highest incompetence.
I found one. :thumb:
QuoteYou come off like a whiney little girl.
Quote from: Court Jester on June 07, 2007, 03:54:10 PM
People ride to their highest incompetence.
Hey Mike, if you want to make this personal and have something you want to say to me go ahead and make it in person.
Quote from: red900 on June 07, 2007, 03:37:12 PM
Hmm, where are CSB 3:16 guys when you need them? Well, i think it goes like this: Amen......
Last time I saw a CSB "racing" guy he was doing trackdays... and has been since 05 :rollseyes:
Garth... I never said racers where your customer base.
Quote...that contains a connection to a LARGE portion of my customer base...
ignoring the connection between racers and TD riders is foolish. One becomes the other regularly.
Not an employee... ok... your not employed by NESBA, your a "Director". Your affiliated. Let me put it to you this way. If anyone associated with my organization with your "authority" chose to represent the company the way you have... their position would be compromised. But again... you still retain your position, so its moot. And yet again... its not my company. Obviously its not an issue... I was simply making a point that my way of doing business and your way of doing business are very, VERY different, to the point of being (not so much horror) but shocking nontheless.
not real racers... your opinion is your own. Those that have and do race (whatever their pace) would argue.
why do I care? What does it matter that I do? and "someone like me"... please explain that to me. What in your opinion, consists of "someone like me".
Tim
Quote from: tstruyk on June 07, 2007, 04:14:52 PM
Last time I saw a CSB "racing" guy he was doing trackdays... and has been since 05 :rollseyes:
Actually CSB was at MAM just a few weeks ago, and also at BHF on Mother Days...Pretty sure they were also at HPT but not 100% positive...
I was refering to Pruitt...
I know CSB is still active in the racing community.
It was a joke at Mike's expense... just diggin on him a bit.
Quote from: tstruyk on June 07, 2007, 04:23:50 PM
I was refering to Pruitt...
I know CSB is still active in the racing community.
It was a joke at Mike's expense... just diggin on him a bit.
Cool,
Dont mind me...I will pay my $75.00 extra to pratice at RA...I am just here for the train wreck that is never going to end...
Just because a guy grids up and runs laps in a santioned race does not define him as a racer. As a matter of fact I am stuggling with what many on this board actually consider the definition of a racer.
Is a racer a guy that grids up at a race?
Is a racer a guy that can complete corner passes with or without standing someone up?
Is a racer someone that goes out and competes to the best of his ability and finishes the best he can?
I see plenty of guys in races that are just turning laps, they are not competing by any definition of the word. So these are the guys real racers would rather practice with? Am i to believe that real racers would rather practice with guys that have done (as stated above) less laps in 10 years than Marshall has done in only a few years?
I have seen plenty of "close calls" in race practice, hell I have even seen close calls on the preview lap....... Next time watch where the "real racers" put themselves in those situations. You will find them the first one out or bringing up the back.... The group that you say they would so much prefer to ride with, they seem to distance themselves from the most......
Quote from: tstruyk on June 07, 2007, 04:23:50 PM
I was refering to Pruitt...
I know CSB is still active in the racing community.
It was a joke at Mike's expense... just diggin on him a bit.
ya, he has kinda dissappeared...... Miss him a bit. And yes, the last time I saw him was at a Nesba TD @ Barber, Nov 06...
QuoteJust because a guy grids up and runs laps in a santioned race does not define him as a racer.
OK then... what is he/she?
QuoteAs a matter of fact I am stuggling with what many on this board actually consider the definition of a racer.
maybe you should give us your definition. be specific.
QuoteIs a racer a guy that grids up at a race?
yup
QuoteIs a racer a guy that can complete corner passes with or without standing someone up?
ummm sure, not sure what your going after here??? If he's in a race he's racing so how he passes doesnt matter. It might describe the TYPE of racer he is...
QuoteIs a racer someone that goes out and competes to the best of his ability and finishes the best he can?
sure. abilities vary, and when your abilities dont compare closely with others its tough to "compete" actively, but I assure you noone is trying to finish last. It sucks racing yourself, but its still racing.
QuoteI see plenty of guys in races that are just turning laps, they are not competing by any definition of the word.
com·pete
intr.v.
com·pet·ed , com·pet·ing , com·petes
To strive against another or others to attain a goal, such as an advantage or a victory.
again, I dont know anyone that tries to finish last.
QuoteSo these are the guys real racers would rather practice with? Am i to believe that real racers would rather practice with guys that have done (as stated above) less laps in 10 years than Marshall has done in only a few years?
are you referring to the people that are just "lapping" during a race? well of course not, but would you argue that the overall pace at an expert racer practice is slower or faster than the overall pace in an "A" group NESBA session?
QuoteI have seen plenty of "close calls" in race practice, hell I have even seen close calls on the preview lap....... Next time watch where the "real racers" put themselves in those situations. You will find them the first one out or bringing up the back.... The group that you say they would so much prefer to ride with, they seem to distance themselves from the most......
ok I tried reading that 3 times and still dont have a clue what your talking about... sorry.
where do real racers put themselves in "close calls"??? On the preview lap??? Your suggesting that racers distance themselves from racers at TD's??? help me out here.
marshall is an exception, clearly not the rule.
If you poll 100 racers, and asked if they would rather practice with some one who has raced for 10 years, or done a "TON" of track days. What do you think the answer would be?
Pruitt... he's at all the GIR stuff. I think its an insurance issue with his wrist being kinda torn up.
Quote from: tstruyk on June 07, 2007, 04:52:33 PM
again, I dont know anyone that tries to finish last.
I have fought for second to last does that almost count?
Quote from: G 97 on June 07, 2007, 04:07:57 PM
Hey Mike, if you want to make this personal and have something you want to say to me go ahead and make it in person.
I didn't direct it at you. In fact I didn't direct it at anyone. It's just a known quote that I find to be fitting through all facets of life.
Some times a person doesn't have to direct their words at anyone in particular. They just throw them out there and the surrounding circumstances will clearly point the path.
But the number is 608-988-6384 if your self esteem is that low.
"If your not 1st your Last"
So if your always last are you a racer.
I'm on Fire, I'm on Fire!!!!!!
"Oh god, dont let the invisable fire burn my friend... "
man too bad I have to go racing this weekend at Roebling...gonna miss all this goood reading about what a racer really is ::)
:pop:
guess I'll have to do some catching up on Tuesday
:cheers:
Quote from: PJ721 on June 07, 2007, 06:20:08 PM
man too bad I have to go racing this weekend at Roebling...gonna miss all this goood reading about what a racer really is ::)
:pop:
I here ya
see you at roebling
guess I'll have to do some catching up on Tuesday
:cheers:
Quote from: G 97 on June 07, 2007, 04:07:57 PM
Hey Mike, if you want to make this personal and have something you want to say to me go ahead and make it in person.
Garth it's the internet , they never say it in person. I am glad I'm not the only one that noticed it.
Quote from: G 97 on June 07, 2007, 08:51:38 AM
OKey- dokie So you were running 2:17' at RA on a 600 in the late 1990's? Sorry dude, noway, nohow. Even if you were running 19' to 20's which would put you squarly in the middle it would alos have put you in contention for Poll in the Supersport races. Sorry dude, no way. But of course there is no record so you can pull anything out.
You seem to be confusing street bike riders with track day riders.
In any event, Mike you have your opionions based on very little to no expereinces. It reminds me of a group called the Flatlanders who to this day have the opinion that the world is not round but is flat. Yes, you have an opinion. A misinformed one, but hey it never stops you.
I am also reminded about the ESPN commercial where one guy's sport knowlege is lacking and he is always talking out of his azz about sports and making way off comments - until he gets the ESPN updater. (Dude, you need a race updater).
Since your still obsessed with lap times and the legitamacy of what I'm saying about my past I will give a couple examples. First thing is that I was racing a 1996 GSXR 750 at that time that had a jet-kit, high flow air filter, and Yosh race exhaust - there were no other mod's done to the engine. In 1998 I was a 1st year Expert (3rd season of racing) with the competition #214, I drove to the ROC that season by myself from Illinois, it was my 1st time ever racing there. I was using 93 octane pump gas from the local Amoco and my bike had Dunlop 364 race tires on it that already had about 12 track sessions on them (1 typical event for me back then), but I used them anyways. I got faster every time I got on the track that event, by the time I ran the Unlimited Superbike race I was going pretty good around Daytona. The reason I so vividly remember that race is because of the bike I was next to on the grid, that guy had a Muzzy Raptor that was the talk of the padock back then - I still remember he had an umbrella girl and pit crew there on the pre-grid. In the race we were gridded on the 1st row after the 2 row split in the grid, I believe it was row 6, so that would have put me in the 22nd starting position with I don't know how many more rows of racers behind me. In the end I finished 6th and was turning times of 2:00 flat with a best of 1:59, back then we used the traditional layout and the old larger chicane. If I remember correctly the AMA Superbike pole time that year was in the low 1:50's, back then they also had the 120% cut-off to make the Superbike grid, I was at apx 108% (which still would have put me on the grid by todays 110% cut-off standard).
In 1999 I was racing the same bike at Road America, that was a 3 CCS region combined event with NASB (Great Plaines, Midwest, and the former Great Lakes Regions). For those that haven't been around long enough to know, NASB stands for North American Sport Bike and it was the national series for CCS even before Formula USA. I think it was the 2nd RA event of that season and I started around row 5 and believe it was a 72 racer grid. I got a great start and moved up fast, eventually I high-sided in turn 14 while attempting to pass the #1 plated racer (Ron Foye) to take 3rd and tore my shoulder, all because I was in so much debt by then that I was using tires that already had 3 events on them (36 track sessions - 6 races and 6 practices per event, back then we had 3 practice sessions per morning). I still remember looking back earlier in that race at the 5th place racer and seeing the Valvoline Suzuki bike behind me - I believe it was Grant Lopez, he would have had a great view of my crash. That was back before both (yes both) of the repaves at Road America when there was crappy pavement and patches galore there, we also used the 'kink' back then. The AMA Superbike Pole time back then was somewhere in the low/mid 2 minute teens, I believe a 2:25 was my best back then on that configuration, even that's within todays 110% cut-off for Superbike.
As for anyone that would remember me, Ron Foye and Ken Krebs (Ken owns Chicago Performance) were the #1 plated guys around that time, they were 2 of the guys I was battling with - call Ken if you want, he should most likely remember me as Expert #214. If you go into his shop you will see a whole wall covered with plaques from races he raced in and the #1 plate as well (if he still has it how I remember it), I hope that's enough credibility as to who he is.
see you all monday when I get back from roebling! :cheers:
Quote from: fourandsix on June 07, 2007, 09:36:30 PM
Garth it's the internet , they never say it in person. I am glad I'm not the only one that noticed it.
Jim, did your riders have any issues with us track day riders at Road America two weeks ago? They got the practice they needed for setup and practice passing us back markers. Ha Ha.
skiers and snowboarders have these same kind of issues but their still going down the same mountain. that's 154 what's the record?
Mike-
I work with Ron Foye. Was he really as good as he claims? he is known as a bit of a blow hard at work...and I don't always believe everything the guy says. He says he was Midwest champion for a couple classes over a couple years?
Ron was pretty fast, he could generally hold me off. To the best of my knowledge Ron actually has the record for the most championships held by anyone in CCS history, I believe it was something like 15 or 18 in one season (I was at the Midwest banquet when he got all those awards along with the #1 plate). Ron had somewhat of a sponsered ride if I remember correctly, his bike was crazy fast, I generally was right behind him in alot of races (though I do have a picture of a race I was winning with him in 2nd place a few seconds behind me, but that was a rare situation for me to be leading him). I'm not sure if he will remember me as well as Ken would, but I know he would know me if he saw me again. I haven't seen Ron at BFR spectating in quite a while, Hell I doubt there are few people now who would even know him or Ken as former regional champions and #1 plate holders as they walk around the pits - that's really too bad.
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on June 07, 2007, 11:47:18 PM
Ron was pretty fast, he could generally hold me off. To the best of my knowledge Ron actually has the record for the most championships held by anyone in CCS history, I believe it was something like 15 or 18 in one season (I was at the Midwest banquet when he got all those awards along with the #1 plate). Ron had somewhat of a sponsered ride if I remember correctly, his bike was crazy fast, I generally was right behind him in alot of races (though I do have a picture of a race I was winning with him in 2nd place a few seconds behind me, but that was a rare situation for me to be leading him). I'm not sure if he will remember me as well as Ken would, but I know he would know me if he saw me again. I haven't seen Ron at BFR spectating in quite a while, Hell I doubt there are few people now who would even know him or Ken as former regional champions and #1 plate holders as they walk around the pits - that's really too bad.
Heh, well its cool that he isn't just full of shit all the time then. :) I always thought that if he was as fast and won as much as he said he did, he probably could have made a go professionally. (maybe he did?) But I remember him rattling off to me one time a bunch of the championships that he won. I don't remember what they were because I didn't really believe him at the time, and i was just getting into this sport, so i didn't really remember what he was saying. I know he was sponsored by Madison Motorsports in Madison I don't know who else. I don't know when he quit racing...seems like he had a bad crash and quite soon after that? I think he does a odd track day every now and then...but not a lot.
Anyway, cool to hear that. I feel kind of like an ass now for thinking he was full of shit.
Quote from: G 97 on June 07, 2007, 08:51:38 AMAs far as trackday orgs taking dates please be specific, I would like to know what dates I have been taking from race orgs.
I've really realized in this thread how badly some people want to read things into statements. I have expressed concern in this thread for the future of regional motorcycle road racing in the U.S.A. due to the ever increasing number of 'non-racing' activities that are constantly being added to the Racetrack schedules - that includes bikes, cars, etc. I remember reading that Road America only had something like 3 days in their entire schedule that were available for track rental a year or 2 ago.
My comments about 'non-racing' activities (including Track Days as a whole, not specifically NESBA) is pointing out that there are a limited number of racetracks, with a limited number of days, available every season. As I said before, Track Day org's are fairly new (both bikes and cars) and have rapidly multiplied in the number of them all together, all requiring their own dates, most prefering weekend dates if available. In this lies the problem, as schedules become saturated over the next several years it will become more and more difficult to not only secure rental dates, but this will continue to drive rental costs even higher due to 'supply and demand'. I also find it strange that with all the added interest in track rental that we are not seeing any substaintial improvements at the tracks from the added revenue they are bringing in (excluding RA who is rumored to be seeking WSBK races and are modifying their track to accomodate that).
I understand the desire that people have that are using actual Race tracks for 'non-racing' activities, but at what cost is that desire ultimately going to be at over time? We live in a time when society as a whole wants to be able to do what ever they want, when they want, where ever they want. I certainly don't have a hatred toward Track Day participants, the Track Day org's, or NESBA specifically for that matter - what I am concerned about is that when all of them are combined together their effects could potentially cause some long term effects. Look at it like the current hot button in the media: Global Warming. I personally am not the reason for Global Warming, Garth personally is not the reason for Global Warming, the rest of you as individuals are not the reason for Global Warming - but when you put us all together WE are the reason for Global Warming. It's not 1 or 3 or 5 'non-racing' activities going on at Racetracks that may cause what I have been describing above, it's when there's literally 1000's of them going on across the country currently and increasing all the time (all types of 'non-racing' activities combined).
I certainly hope I'm wrong about this, but guaging by the rapid growth of 'non-racing' activities that's been happening at Racetracks just over the last 5 years I'm afraid I might be more correct than wrong. Time will tell.
Quote from: Helmsman on June 08, 2007, 12:19:08 AM
Heh, well its cool that he isn't just full of shit all the time then. :) I always thought that if he was as fast and won as much as he said he did, he probably could have made a go professionally. (maybe he did?) But I remember him rattling off to me one time a bunch of the championships that he won. I don't remember what they were because I didn't really believe him at the time, and i was just getting into this sport, so i didn't really remember what he was saying. I know he was sponsored by Madison Motorsports in Madison I don't know who else. I don't know when he quit racing...seems like he had a bad crash and quite soon after that? I think he does a odd track day every now and then...but not a lot.
Anyway, cool to hear that. I feel kind of like an ass now for thinking he was full of shit.
Ron had a bad crash toward the end of his racing 'career' where I believe he broke his ankle pretty bad. I remember him telling me when he was leaving how he had accomplished what he had set out to accomplish and could leave the sport satisfied. I always thought that was a great attitude to have and an end result most don't ever achieve.
Quote from: jrsmail616 on June 07, 2007, 10:44:39 PM
Jim, did your riders have any issues with us track day riders at Road America two weeks ago? They got the practice they needed for setup and practice passing us back markers. Ha Ha.
Our riders had no problems at all with anyone , it went pretty smooth as i recall. It's interesting that every discussion in here turns in to a bitch and bashing fest. Then moves on to a personal attack. Then you see those same people at the track and they are all smiles and want to shake your hand or ask for advice or a favor.
I believe your right mike ccs has been in a state of depression I think Eric is doing a good job but some things or out of our hands i'm really concerned with the car guys 2years ago you never heard of a car track daynow there common but what happens when everybody with tires and a swaybar finds out there won't be a weekend left.
with a little luck they'll trade the sway bar in for something with a swing arm.
Quote from: fourandsix on June 08, 2007, 08:26:47 AM
Our riders had no problems at all with anyone , it went pretty smooth as i recall. It's interesting that every discussion in here turns in to a bitch and bashing fest. Then moves on to a personal attack. Then you see those same people at the track and they are all smiles and want to shake your hand or ask for advice or a favor.
Everybody's bored.. What do you expect them to do? Not to mention (as you pointed out), the keyboard factor. It's easy to bitch with huge balls behind a keyboard, but people tend to be a bit more coordial in person. It's the nature of the beast.
But it's great exposure for my advertisers ;-) Game on!!
Quote... "someone like me"... please explain that to me. What in your opinion, consists of "someone like me".
still waiting on this Garth...
Snowboarders and skiers! Snowboard used to be banned from ski hills. They had to hike up hills themselves to ride down. Maybe someday we can all share like they have learned to. Oh wait there are a still a few narrow-minded people that bring up that debate as well.
Since this is kind of a Nesba oriented bash. I'll state this. I would much rather ride in Nesba "A" group then a racer practice! Nesba's A group riders have been evaluated and earned the right to be there. They have demonstrated more competency then someone that got license last weekend and comes to practice this week. Maybe if there were a standard of rider education and competency for racing, we'd have less single bike accidents.
Pretty racers will be unable to afford the track because we're taking all the days? Maybe we'll see a growth in new tracks! Maybe you won't have to drive as far because in 5 yrs there will be 12 tracks within a 6 hr. drive instead of 6. It is what it is.
With that. I declare a season of love!
Love the Rabbit & the Duck season!
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: fourandsix on June 08, 2007, 08:26:47 AM
Our riders had no problems at all with anyone , it went pretty smooth as i recall. It's interesting that every discussion in here turns in to a bitch and bashing fest. Then moves on to a personal attack. Then you see those same people at the track and they are all smiles and want to shake your hand or ask for advice or a favor.
I didn't think so, but I asked Kevin when he was walking around getting stats on what everyone was riding and tire brands, I asked him a simple question in that his riders where having no problems riding with us "A" Nesba riders.
I know Micheal Barns and Mr. Beck from M4 emigo zuki had no problem passing us and it was fun to watch them as well.
I am starting to learn that there are a lot of CCS cry babies. Of course, not all of you have been, but come on guys! After 12 pages of internet 'pissing matches', it still just comes down to this....
If NESBA wasn't going to be there Wed, Thur, then would CCS have rented the track? I'm not positive on this one, but it doesn't sound like they would've. So then, if NESBA wasn't going to be there would any of you even be getting any practice? Maybe you should be thanking Garth instead of moaning and groaning about a damn $75 membership fee that lasts a year, when you are happy to pay the same amount for a 4-7 lap sprint that lasts 12 minutes!
And as far as preferring to ride the 'racer' practice vs. a day in the A group, I can understand to a point, but come on guys... the NESBA Advanced group is FAR from slow. As far as not being comfortable with close passes, bull shit. Should you be bumping into us or cutting us off like its the last lap of the race? no. A little respect goes a long ways, but I'd expect the biggest problem MOST of you will have with the NESBA advanced group, is that you can't get by them.... or possibly even keep them in your sights. Nobody can just 'jump into' the advanced group. They are evaluated on many things, including passing and being comfortable with 'closer' passes, along with the obvious speed, smoothness, etc.
The bottom line is that there is practice days available for everyone, attatched to a little bit of required respect for those that choose not to participate in any 'bumper car' action of racing. Is it possible for someone to take you out in the advanced group at a track day?? Sure, just about the same chance of you accidentally taking someone out yourself at any given track, on any given day.
If you want practice and set up time for your races, then I will see you July 4-5th at RA for a couple great track days, with incredible speed, and talented riders.... Trackday guys and racers alike. I am planning to try to get a little bit more comfortable with the speeds myself and possible do my 1st race weekend of the year, 2nd of my 1 yr track riding career.
Hopefully I will be showing you how slow and 'dangerous' us trackday really are :thumb: (or as 1 liked to refer to as 'street riders', which BTW, there are probably close to half of all the regions trackday riders that no longer ride on the street)
Now, would everybody stop crying.... either you go or you don't, its really that simple.
Quote from: gkotlin on June 08, 2007, 11:07:20 AM
Snowboarders and skiers! Snowboard used to be banned from ski hills. They had to hike up hills themselves to ride down. Maybe someday we can all share like they have learned to. Oh wait there are a still a few narrow-minded people that bring up that debate as well.
Snowboarders haven't learned to share, they just took the hill over. You see like 1 pair of ski's for about every 15-20 boards. I do remember the days of hating snowboarders back in the early 90's when I skied, thought they were a bunch of punks, kinda like street squid. Now I love to snowboard, it's a blast and actually takes a lot more skill than skiing. If you haven't tried it you should. We are all used to smacking the ground and sliding on our asses. If you have never snowboarded you will do ALOT of this! So yes, I'm now a punk that I used to hate.
I think I will jump on my 916 tomarrow in a tee shirt, shorts, and flip flops and go for a ride without a helmet. I will make sure to rev the motor at every stop light and do a wheelie from every stop because I am just to kool! J/K
Can't we all just get along?
I look to do a trackday again someday. But with a :jerkoff: of a spokesman for Nesba, it will be hands down to another trackday organization. I know that my one entry won't cripple or put Nesba out of business, but it's just the principal of the things from what people say.
Just my $.02
Carry on
:pop:
Can this just freaking DIE already?
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on June 09, 2007, 04:01:31 AM
Can this just freaking DIE already?
!!!!!!!!!!!!NOPE, IT"S IN THE TOP 10 NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on June 09, 2007, 04:01:31 AM
Can this just freaking DIE already?
Visitation Saturday at the Kevorkian Funeral Parlor-1pm
Bury it on Sunday AM, T1.
"T1 to Control. We need the crash truck to deliver a shovel for quick burial. No flags."
i'm not racing this weekend. still nursing the ankle to life.
i'll keep it alive.
if nothing else, i'll inundate it with g/f and ex g/f pics just to give people a valid reason to return
+1 jester got 4 more weeks good threads hard to come by. the JZ thing is about dead. I was in Vail back about 1978 saw 1 snow board in the pro shop if got back on the slopes I think I'd try a board first.talked to racer 22 last night he's in Savannah hospital broke 4 ribs in the carousel at robeling someone took out his front on Friday practice(don't know if that was track day or a racer only practice)and mark's a good rider.just trying to help out
Quote from: ducatirider944 on June 09, 2007, 03:14:33 AM
I look to do a trackday again someday. But with a :jerkoff: of a spokesman for Nesba, it will be hands down to another trackday organization. I know that my one entry won't cripple or put Nesba out of business, but it's just the principal of the things from what people say.
Just my $.02
Carry on
:pop:
Have you not read this entire thread?? I can't blame him, considering all of the whining and crying. I agree with his original thought of 'no CCS racers allowed to 'practice' at our NESBA day', or at least some of the tards in this thread.
Go ride with other orgs if you'd like.... it has to at least be better for your confidence and ego.
I just don't understand where all of these arguements of 'track day riders are more dangerous', trackday orgs are going to help racing diminish, etc even come from. The issue here is that people don't want to pay for a NESBA day for practice. It's very simple.... either you do, or you don't practice. Once again, if NESBA didn't have the day, noone would be practicing... This thread should be titled "Thank you NESBA for renting the track, which CCS wouldn't have anyways, so that we can get some practice before our races!"
I think it's more a matter of sticking it to the rider at the best possible time to rake in more $$$.
I do notice that about the only people jumping in for support are nesba control riders.
Quote from: Court Jester on June 09, 2007, 08:27:42 AM
i'm not racing this weekend. still nursing the ankle to life.
i'll keep it alive.
if nothing else, i'll inundate it with g/f and ex g/f pics just to give people a valid reason to return
+1 Karma for you!
Quote from: Court Jester on June 09, 2007, 10:42:40 AM
I do notice that about the only people jumping in for support are nesba control riders.
I'm seeing that pattern too.
Quote from: PJ721 on June 07, 2007, 06:20:08 PM
man too bad I have to go racing this weekend at Roebling...gonna miss all this goood reading about what a racer really is ::)
:pop:
guess I'll have to do some catching up on Tuesday
:cheers:
Are you a racer? :D
It's interesting that street squids are worried about who has "chicken strips" on their tires to prove who is the best rider then you have track day levels where people are asking to get the "bump" to advanced. Then club level racing that don't want to run AM with EX in the same race, and AMA pros that complain about the backmarkers dicking up the race.
I don't really have a point with all this, it's just more of an observation of certain people feeling that what ever stage they are at is the most important. However I do agrees that if you are doing this to make a living, then I'd undertand someone being pissed off having the outcome of a race influenced by someone who just wants to be out there with the pros.
Quote from: Gixxerblade on June 09, 2007, 12:11:10 PM
Are you a racer? :D
Better ask red900. Apparently he has an idea of what a "real" racer is.
Quote from: suzukigirl on June 09, 2007, 10:01:27 AM
Have you not read this entire thread?? I can't blame him, considering all of the whining and crying. I agree with his original thought of 'no CCS racers allowed to 'practice' at our NESBA day', or at least some of the tards in this thread.
Yep I graduated 3rd grade so I have enough knowledge to read Garth's posts. I have owned a contracting business for 14 years and have been in plenty of situations where I thought a customer was an idiot. I usually bite my tongue and work thought it with trying to please that customer as much as I possibly can. One pissed of customer can do a lot more damage than 50 pleased customers can do good. A pleased customer might recommend your business to a friend or co-worker. A pissed of customer will tell everyone he/she runs into that your business sucks for blah, blah, blah reason. I have hit a point with a few customers that I told they were idiots to their face, but I never did or would attack them on a forum that would have 4465 potential customers. This is bad business and why I will not ride a Nesba trackday.
Quote from: suzukigirl on June 09, 2007, 10:01:27 AM
Go ride with other orgs if you'd like.... it has to at least be better for your confidence and ego.
So taking a step by not doing a trackday with an organization that has a representative that is bashing my fellow racers is a confidence and ego booster??? :wtf: And for the record I no longer have a racing licence since I quit racing after my accident last year. I will race again but it will be supermoto and I'm still a racer at heart. I still support my fellow racers and don't want to be a part of an organization that bashes them.
Quote from: Gixxerblade on June 09, 2007, 12:11:10 PM
Are you a racer? :D
to be totally honest, zeroice is more of a "racer' than most. i had the luck of helping him in the pits when he ran the solo challenge at heartland park. ran the whole race on a wet track, part through a hail storm, on dot tires and won the race three laps ahead of his closest competitor.
oh, i thought that was quoted from zeroice. my bad.
Quote from: ducatirider944 on June 09, 2007, 02:43:50 PM
Yep I graduated 3rd grade so I have enough knowledge to read Garth's posts. I have owned a contracting business for 14 years and have been in plenty of situations where I thought a customer was an idiot. I usually bite my tongue and work thought it with trying to please that customer as much as I possibly can. One pissed of customer can do a lot more damage than 50 pleased customers can do good. A pleased customer might recommend your business to a friend or co-worker. A pissed of customer will tell everyone he/she runs into that your business sucks for blah, blah, blah reason. I have hit a point with a few customers that I told they were idiots to their face, but I never did or would attack them on a forum that would have 4465 potential customers. This is bad business and why I will not ride a Nesba trackday.
So taking a step by not doing a trackday with an organization that has a representative that is bashing my fellow racers is a confidence and ego booster??? :wtf: And for the record I no longer have a racing licence since I quit racing after my accident last year. I will race again but it will be supermoto and I'm still a racer at heart. I still support my fellow racers and don't want to be a part of an organization that bashes them.
WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
I'm picken up what you're throwing down.
Oh. and ummmmm...
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Court Jester on June 09, 2007, 03:59:31 PM
Oh. and ummmmm...
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!
At least the nesba peple that replied had something intelligent to say besides duck or wabbit season.
This post will tie for 7th of the top 10 threads. Next poster can tie it for sixth. I bet this thread has top 5 written all over it!
:pop:
Quote from: fourandsix on June 09, 2007, 04:44:06 PM
At least the nesba peple that replied had something intelligent to say besides duck or wabbit season.
watch it honkey, i'll pull your stickers off my bikes. personally, i think 99% of the posts here are crap. mine included. but definatly the nesba folks.
lighten up a little and try :jerkoff: every once in a while
:thumb:
Quote from: ducatirider944 on June 09, 2007, 07:54:56 PM
This post will tie for 7th of the top 10 threads. Next poster can tie it for sixth. I bet this thread has top 5 written all over it!
:pop:
i'll make it number one.
it'll be my own personal post whore thread.
i've got tons of stuff i'm putting together on the computer and will be checking in often.
Sorry,Mike......I would have typed "Duck Season" sooner...but I am not that intelligent ( :jerkoff:) ....
and I broke my collar bone at BHF Friday morning and it hurts to type...
Quote from: Court Jester on June 09, 2007, 10:42:40 AM
I do notice that about the only people jumping in for support are nesba control riders.
The only thing you notice are the # of ice cubes in your rum and cokes! (32 oz tumblers with a 1/5 o' captain)
Drink on, ya crip. :thumb:
Quote from: backMARKr on June 09, 2007, 09:03:37 PM
( :jerkoff:) ....
and I broke my collar bone at BHF Friday morning and it hurts to type...
OH SNAP DAWG!!!!!!!!!!! what happened???? that really bites dude. shit man. i hope you heal quick.
i guess gate way's out for you now???
i got 150 miles in on the MV today. no stand up wheelies. tried one. bad idea. and no hard hard turns. but my oops should be okay enough by then. hope you get back to good quick man.
Quote from: 61Ex on June 09, 2007, 09:20:53 PM
The only thing you notice are the # of ice cubes in your rum and cokes! (32 oz tumblers with a 1/5 o' captain)
Drink on, ya crip. :thumb:
2 ice cubes, 1/3 rum, 2/3 diet coke.
i haven't had one in a while.
be right back...
Quote from: backMARKr on June 09, 2007, 09:03:37 PM
Sorry,Mike......I would have typed "Duck Season" sooner...but I am not that intelligent ( :jerkoff:) ....
and I broke my collar bone at BHF Friday morning and it hurts to type...
Damn that sucks. Heal up...order Dave's bone healer!
Damn Mark....sorry to hear that. You going to come to gateway anyway?
Oh...and I'll fill in for ya
Duck Season!!!
Dan
planning on going to Gateway to watch....hoping to heal fast enough for RA.
We will see you there!
Quote from: Court Jester on June 09, 2007, 10:42:40 AM
I think it's more a matter of sticking it to the rider at the best possible time to rake in more $$$.
Uh yea... Thats it. ::)
Quote from: Court Jester on June 09, 2007, 03:50:03 PM
to be totally honest, zeroice is more of a "racer' than most. i had the luck of helping him in the pits when he ran the solo challenge at heartland park. ran the whole race on a wet track, part through a hail storm, on dot tires and won the race three laps ahead of his closest competitor.
:jerkoff:
Guess that makes me more of a track day rider than most. I rode my 3rd time on a track at Road America in flash floods on DOT tires. I didn't even have the motivation of points! I just did it because I love to ride. :cheers:
Quote from: Court Jester on June 09, 2007, 10:42:40 AM
I do notice that about the only people jumping in for support are nesba control riders.
I'm proud to see some Nesba CR's standing up for what they believe in. Do you run your business for free? Nesba directors have to deal with your rants and crying and don't even get paid. Garth has impressed me many times with his dedication to the members needs, but never at the cost of safety. The fact that you can't detect his sarcasm on line is just a flaw of the internet. I doubt I'd be nice if someone continually attacked my family and their beliefs as well. Thats kind of what Nesba is. An extended family. We spend every weekend together doing what we love. Sound familiar? Oh yea, kinda sounds like racing! The way you guys spend your weekends together. Helping each other when help is needed. Just because we don't go balls out for a chunk of wood doesn't make it any less dangerous or any less rewarding.
There are tons of generalizations being cast here by everyone. I agree that we will probably always disagree. None the less, you won't come and spend money on a Nesba track day. Thats fine. But I know if I'm at a CCS race and you need a hand. I'm going to come and help you regardless. It's not about what differences we can find. It's about what we can find to share in this sport. I'm sure when your done racing, you'll just hang up your leathers and never ride the track again. Thats a shame. I'll ride with Nesba long after I'm done racing.
Oh and I'm not a Nesba CR. I've paid my $75 Nesba membership for the year. I pay for my Nesba event fees. I was out there banging bars with the AMA guys while they took advantage of our track day for practice. I loved every second of it! I pay my CCS race license fees. I pay for my CCS races. I post because I care.
Quote from: r1owner on June 09, 2007, 01:19:31 PM
Better ask red900. Apparently he has an idea of what a "real" racer is.
I really wish our school would raise the bar on reading skills before they allow some folks out of basic english.
Let me clarify considering you comprehension is weak. I ASKED FOR PEOPLE TO DEFINE WHAT A REAL RACER IS..... Was that clear enough for you? Interesting enough though nobody wanted to participate. People want to continue to throw around the words "Real Racers" without ever defining what a real racer is. I was simply suggesting maybe we should make sure we are comparing the same things here, apples to apples...
Thanks for participating.
Quote from: Court Jester on June 09, 2007, 10:42:40 AM
I do notice that about the only people jumping in for support are nesba control riders.
I guess the same could be proven the other way also... What is your point Einstein?
Court Jester would like to also update us with some more obvious information as found below:
1. The sky blue, sometimes.
2. The chicken came before the egg.
3. It is pronounced potato, not patato.
That is all he could come up with at this point, please stay tuned for more ground breaking revalations.
Quote from: red900 on June 07, 2007, 04:33:04 PM
Just because a guy grids up and runs laps in a santioned race does not define him as a racer.
Quote from: red900 on June 11, 2007, 12:38:05 AM
I really wish our school would raise the bar on reading skills before they allow some folks out of basic english. <snip>I ASKED FOR PEOPLE TO DEFINE WHAT A REAL RACER IS..... </snip>
I think my comprehension is just fine...
Quote from: red900 on June 11, 2007, 12:56:12 AM
Court Jester would like to also update us with some more obvious information as found below:
1. The sky blue, sometimes.
2. The chicken came before the egg.
3. It is pronounced potato, not patato.
1. Very true. Couldn't have said it better myself. Currently it is very blue and last night it was a much darker blue than it's current state.
2. Obviously a sign that the chicken has an issue with premature ejaculation and should consult its physician.
3. This one is tricky. What is perceived as "proper pronunciation" largly varies from region to region. I'm personally fond of the middle of the road term "tater".
And what is the thread post record??? We need to get there and put this crap to rest.
Quote from: gkotlin on June 10, 2007, 10:10:14 PM
Uh yea... Thats it. ::)
:jerkoff:
Guess that makes me more of a track day rider than most. I rode my 3rd time on a track at Road America in flash floods on DOT tires. I didn't even have the motivation of points! I just did it because I love to ride. :cheers:
I'm proud to see some Nesba CR's standing up for what they believe in. Do you run your business for free? Nesba directors have to deal with your rants and crying and don't even get paid. Garth has impressed me many times with his dedication to the members needs, but never at the cost of safety. The fact that you can't detect his sarcasm on line is just a flaw of the internet. I doubt I'd be nice if someone continually attacked my family and their beliefs as well. Thats kind of what Nesba is. An extended family. We spend every weekend together doing what we love. Sound familiar? Oh yea, kinda sounds like racing! The way you guys spend your weekends together. Helping each other when help is needed. Just because we don't go balls out for a chunk of wood doesn't make it any less dangerous or any less rewarding.
There are tons of generalizations being cast here by everyone. I agree that we will probably always disagree. None the less, you won't come and spend money on a Nesba track day. Thats fine. But I know if I'm at a CCS race and you need a hand. I'm going to come and help you regardless. It's not about what differences we can find. It's about what we can find to share in this sport. I'm sure when your done racing, you'll just hang up your leathers and never ride the track again. Thats a shame. I'll ride with Nesba long after I'm done racing.
Oh and I'm not a Nesba CR. I've paid my $75 Nesba membership for the year. I pay for my Nesba event fees. I was out there banging bars with the AMA guys while they took advantage of our track day for practice. I loved every second of it! I pay my CCS race license fees. I pay for my CCS races. I post because I care.
Well listen. I'm not pointing fingers or splitting hairs on what a racer is or isn't, I'm never going to say that racer should be more revered than a track day rider or vise-versa, and in saying that someone is "More of a racer" certainly was not meant to belittle anyone else. truth be known, if I were to split the two, I would fall more into the "not a real racer" category anyway. every time I break the top 5 I break a bone.
I have 6 bikes at the moment and will be getting 2 more in a few weeks. No, when I'm done racing, I won't be done with tracks by a long shot and I'll actually be a control rider next year.
And do I run my business for free??? Well I have a few things going, I do business and manufacturing process engineering consulting on the side that you'll pay out the nose for, but yes. One is free.
Try checking out www.superbikesunlimited.com. If you look around you'll see that we're about to give away a free track day to forum members. Keep looking around and let me know when you see a site sponsor as well. Where do you think that money is coming from??? Yes. Out of MY own pocket. Why??? Because I have this undying love for the sport and I'm more than willing to chunk out a couple hundred dollars of my own money a few times a year to get more people into it. It honestly makes no difference whether it's a track day or a race. It's the sport in general. So when I see something that "I perceive" as someone jumping on an opportune time to stick a shaft to a rider and it involves racers and/or general riders, I get a little peeved.
Unfortunately, if the persons receiving these track days chooses a NESBA day, I may or may not pay for that track day. I've not yet decided. And if I do, I will not cover a membership fee. NESBA is the only track day organization that is up for question because I would have a hard time paying my money to support an organization that seems to take such pride in openly alienating "out siders" and openly conducts them self by apparently ego alone.
You want to know the real side kick though??? I loved NESBA until I started reading all of the NESBA folk's post on this forum over the past several months. I did my very first track day with them a at least one other. Maybe two.
So a reminder whomever would find this relevant and coming from an individual that's made a very healthy living making and saving fortune 500 companies a whole lot of money; the people that represent your company in the work place will have a much larger impact on the company by how they represent it within the general population. Considering the obviously growing competition and the way NESBA allows it's representatives to conduct themselves, I would guess their long term outlook is a bit bleak.
Just my opinion.
I'm going back to goofing off now with the hopes that some folks might look at this entire issue a little less seriously.
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!
I only read this page of the thread (call me lazy - couldn't even consider the other 13) and noticed part of the discussion was opinions on the difference between a racer and a track rider. I posted about this on another board, where someone was considering getting into racing, and wondering how different it might be. To told him I thought the difference between track riding and racing is about equal to the difference between deer hunting and combat. Yeah, you do have to know how to ride a bike/shoot a gun; and yeah, you do have to know how to get around a track/develop a good aim. BUT THE DEER DON'T SHOOT BACK! ::)
I dunno - just a thought.
Were the dates not open to CCS as well? I think so. They just didnt want to fork out the money to rent the track for a practice day IMHO. So why is this thread even going. NESBA has every right to have a trackday whenever a date is open and it's not their fault the race org did not step up and get the date. Apparently CCS didnt care to do so. I think it's great that NESBA got a good date for a trackday for their members. Oh and I am not a NESBA CR either by the way. :)
It's now Beer season!!!!!!!!
Luckily we all agree this forum is a good place to share. We all win.
Quote from: zx10rblack51 on June 11, 2007, 12:30:57 PMApparently CCS didnt care to do so.
I've had a lot of licenses. I've been a NESBA member once. I've had other memberships, etc.
I think it is important to point out that CCS never rented a track for racer practice that I ever remember. Yes, they did have some events under CCE that were combo dates...Saturday track days that had traditionally been race days, but I cannot recall anytime that CCS has had a practice day. Generally, these types of affairs are put together by the race track, BFR/HPT practice, Mid-Ohio/Road America/Infineon, Road Atlanta/etc practice. Similarly, the AMA does not provide these extra practice opportunities either, but that's also another situation too.
Duck Season.
Quote from: Super Dave on June 11, 2007, 12:53:58 PM
I think it is important to point out that CCS never rented a track for racer practice that I ever remember.
They've done it a number of times. When ACC opened CCS did practice days on Friday before both events. I believe they also did it at MAM. And they did do the combined days at Gingerman, I think they did some Friday events there too but I don't recall them 100% like I do the Joliet days.
Quote from: Court Jester on June 11, 2007, 11:28:10 AM
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!
D (ouch)
U (ouch)
C (ouch)
K(ouch)
Season!!!! apparently our "intelligence level" hasn't increased,Mike!!! :lmao:
Quote from: Super Dave on June 11, 2007, 12:53:58 PM
I've had a lot of licenses. I've been a NESBA member once. I've had other memberships, etc.
I think it is important to point out that CCS never rented a track for racer practice that I ever remember. Yes, they did have some events under CCE that were combo dates...Saturday track days that had traditionally been race days, but I cannot recall anytime that CCS has had a practice day. Generally, these types of affairs are put together by the race track, BFR/HPT practice, Mid-Ohio/Road America/Infineon, Road Atlanta/etc practice. Similarly, the AMA does not provide these extra practice opportunities either, but that's also another situation too.
Duck Season.
True good point.
in the fla region we practice all day on saturday and pile all our races into sunday . all our gt races are 9 laps on a 2+ mile track.it works pretty good too
Quote from: backMARKr on June 11, 2007, 02:04:30 PM
D (ouch) U (ouch) C (ouch) K(ouch) Season!!!!
apparently our "intelligence level" hasn't increased,Mike!!! :lmao:
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!! And i think the intelligence level is based on just how serious one takes it.
Quote from: Court Jester on June 12, 2007, 10:14:49 AM
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!
And i think the intelligence level is based on just how serious one takes it.
Which I believe was our motivation for doing it in the first place....
Are we a bit TOO subtle for some????...... :err:
DUCK SEASON
WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!
:err:
:blahblah:
:cheers:
:thumb:
13 more post to a top 3
I'm
More
Than
Willing
to
Do
My
Part
To
Help
To
13
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
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Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
I will say it was nice to not have to pay a membership fee when Track Addix did their race at MAM
maybe we can attach the new thread about paying for track days (more commonly known as what's my favorite pie) to this one and break the record.
HMMMMMMMMMMM....
Quote from: Ducmarc on June 12, 2007, 10:22:50 PM
maybe we can attach the new thread about paying for track days (more commonly known as what's my favorite pie) to this one and break the record.
Key Lime
Only 116 more posts to get it to #2. Some fun hater will lock it before it gets there though. While their in there editing maybe they can rename this thread. If you could rename this thread what would it be???
Quote from: ducatirider944 on June 14, 2007, 12:49:02 AM
If you could rename this thread what would it be???
"The gentle autumn before woodchuck season."
Quote from: 61Ex on June 14, 2007, 03:51:40 AM
"The gentle autumn before woodchuck season."
Dude, don't tempt me. :biggrin:
Quote from: Court Jester on June 09, 2007, 08:27:42 AM
if nothing else, i'll inundate it with g/f and ex g/f pics just to give people a valid reason to return
We're still waiting on this....
Quote from: tstruyk on May 24, 2007, 01:37:51 PM
going to melt some extra butter... anyone need anything while I'm up??
What you have to drink?
i thought this thing had died long ago.
Quote from: r1owner on August 12, 2007, 10:38:22 PM
We're still waiting on this....
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/courtjesterracing1/l_7738c303a96fcc87c7bf8ac99100fe4a.jpg)
Quote from: r1owner on August 12, 2007, 10:38:22 PM
We're still waiting on this....
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/courtjesterracing1/bike47.jpg)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/courtjesterracing1/100_2047.jpg)