probly a good question for super dave
what are the hp and torque for a 7.3 diesel
vs the hp and torque for the 6.0 diesel
looking to get a 6.0 and get ride of the 7.3
good idea or bad idea
What year 6.0? I've had a 03 and now a 06. While the 7.3 is not the spring chicken it once was, I would trust it more than our 6.0. Our 2006 6.0 isn't bad but it's got a 4" exhaust and a SCT X2 tuner on it now.
They're OK but we're not getting the mileage out of it liked I'd hoped for.
Brian, I don't know the HP or torque figures.
You can probably find out here (http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0&C=3).
There's a good deal of unhappiness with the 6.0. I think with the increasing emission controls, the EPA is going to completely try to eliminate them. VW isn't bringing them over anymore because of their new stuff.
What are you trying to do? More with your current F250?
I think the 6.0's make more HP, but they spin them up more to get it...just like bikes with similar results...more maintenance and various issues.
Maybe we should find you a nice toter home.
I have a 2002 excursion with the 7.3 and the listed hp is 250 and torque is 505. Not as much as 6.0, but not as many problems either.
I had an 03 f-350 4x4 4door dually and now have an 06 Chevy 2500 HD. I guess it depends on how brand loyal you are really. But I just like the Chevy. Mines an automatic six speed and has a position you can shift into and shift through all six gears manually with the push of a button. And the transmission has a filter. That may not make a big difference. But I'm annul retentive about that stuff and like to know there's an external filter there I can change out.
The biggest thing I've pulled thus far is a 38 foot camper about 30 miles. Obviously you could tell it's there. But it pulled it without straining and accelerated up hills.
Just something to consider if you're not stuck on ford and looking for a new one.
I love my duramax too. 130,000 spins and no grief, huge power. I pull a 24' hydraulic trailer and a Cat 257 skidsteer with accessories. The trailer weighs around 12,000 lbs loaded and the truck just owns it.
I'm not brand loyal at all, I just bought what I thought was the best truck at the time and I've been very happy.
hp and tq figures higher on 6.0 but the 7.3 is more trustworthy. dealership here recommended sticking with the 7.3....
I'd have to toss out another vote for the D-max. Brian, you've seen my RV & trailer. Combined wet weight is just over 24,500# and it tows it without complaint. This is the SAME motor & transmission you'd get in the 05 2500 or 3500 truck.
The next gen D-max actually puts out even more torque & HP. 300hp, 520 lbf-ft torque.
Now I know some of the Ford & Dodge have insane amounts of torque (like +700 or some shit), but for frame of reference, my 05 d-max with right around 300hp & 500 lbf-ft torque have the ability to tow more weight than most race setups will ever reach. And I STILL get 10mpg!!!
The 7.3 PSD was used in International applications as the T444E with changes. And the 6.0 PSD is used also in some Internationl applications.
Saying that they are the "same" is an over simplification. The foundations are similar, but even the emissions that both are required to meet have differences. NO2 emissions are different on light trucks vs medium trucks and other things.
There are many opportunities out there. Cummins makes a nice motor too.
Hey, Brian, what are you trying to do exactly?
For me, my diesel offered me several initial opportunities. First, economy. I costs me less in fuel, and the maintenance issues have been dramatically reduced. Next, my chassis just handles the towing better.
Bonus was that I got places faster because I can get up to speed and even pass better with my simple 475 or 525 ft lbs of torque...(bus doesn't have an intercooler, so they are detuned that way...still, more than enough power for me even with a bigger trailer now). I could drive faster, but it's too gamey in traffic. I didn't like my intial ground speed at the specific RPM that I felt I needed to tow at for my power and fuel consumption rates. Changing the rear end was gonna jump my dually axle up too high, so I just changed my tires to get a bit more ground speed.
Quote from: Super Dave on April 18, 2007, 09:27:59 AM
The 7.3 PSD was used in International applications as the T444E with changes. And the 6.0 PSD is used also in some Internationl applications.
Yup, and the 7.3 being an International platform means that the motorwork that *might* need to be done, anywhere in the country, is going to be much more easily found.
You could hold out for one of the new gen. diesels we'll be putting into the Suburban/Yukon XLs in '09? :cheers:
Dodge........ Need I say more! 5.9 L H.O. 330 hp, 600 ftlbs. Mileage is excellent. Have done the run from DeKalb IL to Little Rock,AR less than 1 tank of fuel.
Pull the 26' toyhauler to MAM. I put fuel in at the gas station down the street from the track.
Jerry
ford 6.0 is a good engine if you get a good one but, very bad if you get a bad one. It's a crap shoot. Some people love 'em, some people hate 'em.
I have a good one right now. '05 crew cab, no problems and it tows my '35 ft. fifth wheel toy hauler with no trouble. The whole rig loaded is 21,100 lbs.
Newer is better, the '03s were shit as were '04s. '05s and '06s seem pretty good.Stay away from the new 6.4 twin turbo!!!!
I own a construction company and have owned many Ford trucks, Both the 7.3 and my current 04' 6.0. I put 35,000 miles a year on these trucks, and these aren't highway miles. I pull a 27' deck over triple axle trailer loaded with a case90XT with tracks and other equipent that weighs about 20-21K. I also have a 38' toyhauler that is about 20K with bikes in it. Also plow snow in the winter. My 01' 7.3 I did have a few transmission problems, but pulling 2X more weight than it was rated for probably not really Fords fault. My 04' 6.0 hasn't had a single problem with it and it pulls better than my 7.3 ever thought about. the 7.3 probably did get about 1mpg better. In my industry just dive around and see what trucks are being used for the trades. If it is being worked and a Diesel it's a Ford. Out of all the friends and co-workers that have Diesels they are Fords, except Tom's Chevy Duramax. It is a very nice and quite truck but it also has never had a trailer hooked to it. I know Dodge has the Cummings but don't know anyone personally that runs one.
im looking into getting a 6.0 ford and wondered how much better or worse the mpg and towing power would be
Stock for stock, or at least similar that way, sounds like the 6.0 does get a little better MPG. Power is a little better too. I think it was only 50 HP on a 500HP engine. Or at least similar to that.
How they fare over time...someone put it to me this way. The 6.0 his a high performance diesel, meaning they are kind of whinny little beeoteches. The 7.3's are hard working industrial engines.
The oil filter is goofy, as I remember it on the 6.0, and I don't think anyone can even make a filter replacement for it that it was so strange. I wouldn't completely rely on my for that one, but there are some strange things about it.
Most of the people that have problems with the 6.0s are the posers - the people that buy them so they can say they spent the money on a diesel. Then all they do with them is run them back and forth to the grocery store. Diesel fuel is nasty dirty stuff, and when you don't get a complete burn (by running the motor HARD), everything gets gummed up. The 6.0s are loaded up with emissions stuff - stuff that's really tempermental and is easily affected by soot buildup.
If you only plan to run your 6.0 with a trailer and use it as it was MEANT to be used (as a heavy-duty TRUCK and not a commuter vehicle) or at least BEAT on it every now and then, you won't have any issues with the 6.0.
Brian - you can always drop my dad a note if you have questions :) His last day at Navistar was yesterday, but he'll probably never forget this stuff. He's been involved with the Ford program pretty much his entire 25 years at the company.
BTW - did you mod your 7.3 at all? You can pick up QUITE a bit more power and fuel economy with a chip. My DuraMax did.
For sale - Silver F250 with some mods to the 7.3 Power Stroke. Talk to Brian Hall. :biggrin:
Here's one of my traditional long responses, but even if you don't read it at least go to this site and read up on what others have to say about whatever Diesel your looking to purchase http://www.thedieselstop.com/ (http://www.thedieselstop.com/), it's a very informative forum. I also want to say that I was a die hard life long GM only guy up until I bought my 2002 F250, I purchased that truck purely because I couldn't find a used Duramax in the price range I was looking for at that time.
My 2002 F250 4x4 with the 7.3 Diesel in it had 135,000 on it when I sold it about a month ago, It hands down was the most dependable vehicle I have ever owned in my life! (of any car or truck I've ever owned). That truck never needed a repair ever, all I did was change the oil and filters as suggested and drove the crap out of it, always performed like a champ.
I purchased my 2003 F350 4x4 with the 6.0 Diesel in it at 34,000 miles and now have about 55,000 miles, this is by far the WORST vehicle I have ever owned in my life. (before people ask, I couldn't sell the F350 for other reasons at this time, that's why I kept it for now) In my 20,000 miles of ownership I have had a whole list of things fail on this truck, some very minor, some more serious, but all pointing to poor manufacturing. The following is the things I have had happen: metal contacts in dome light assembly literally fell apart (not repairable), 1 of the reverse radar sensors fell apart ($125 each), the windshield leaks water, sensor failed in the fuel injection which caused intermitent cutting out of all power (almost got T-boned by a semi due to this the 1st time it happened), electronic controller for the Turbo failed and would cause random wild surging and bucking of the entire vehicle, the swaybar link bars had to be replaced, the nylon bumpers in the suspension all fell out and had to be replaced, the bushings in the ends of the leaf springs all had to be replaced, the rear U-joint failed at 38,000 miles while I was returning from Bike Week 2005 while pulling my 30 ft long trailer, and I lost all the running lights on the vehicle due to Ford changing the relay for those lights in 2003 and making it a hard part of the fuse box - relay goes bad and you either have to bypass the fusebox all together with an inline fuse (which takes away your automatic turn off function for your lights incase you left them on) or replace the whole fuse box. When I was searching for the problem with the lights I found that the factory has a ton of splices in the wiring harness, it looks to me that they were trying to use previous model wiring harnesses in the newer trucks, I was shocked to find some of the crappy factory wiring that I did!
The extra costs associated with simple maintanence was quite a shock to me on this truck as well, though some of the changes they made to those items were good in design, the costs have remained high and haven't come down as they should have. The oil filter is a paper element cartridge that goes in a container on the top of the engine that has a cap you just unscrew to get to it, the nice thing is most the oil drains out of the chamber when you turn off the engine so when you lift the element out it's not completely soaked with oil - cool design but even the aftermarket screws you on the cost still. The Fuel filter is now 2 seperate filters, 1 is like the oil filter and drops into a container on the top of the engine, the water seperator filter is no longer incorporated into the design - it's now a seperate element type of filter that is mounted horizontally along the frame under the drivers seat - be prepared to spill fuel when changing this. I have only been able to find these fuel/water seperator filters from Ford and you have to buy them as a pair - last time I bought them it was $90+ dollars. The air filter is now a big plastic unit that I have found only thru Ford as well, that thing is a huge pain in the ass to change (found removing surrounding equipment was about the only way to get it out) and was $105 when I bought it late last year. Just for me to replace the air filter, fuel/water seperator filters, and do an oil change with filter myself it was something like $250 the last time I did it - on my 7.3 Diesel it was more like $75 for the same service done by me.
The 6.0 is definately faster than a stock 7.3, the Tow/Haul feature is really nice as well, but it just tows different (like Dave said - it uses RPM instead of cubic inches for power- even the new Diesel they are producing now went back up in cubic inches - 6.4). I have actually noticed that my 6.0 gets slightly lower milage than my 7.3 did with the same trailer being towed. As Gordy said, stay away from the '03 and '04 6.0 Diesels, there are too many that are just crappy, problem, money pits like mine. In 2005 they went to variable pitch turbo blades and coil front springs for a better turning radius, I've heard that some of the earlier '05 variable pitch turbo's had problems so getting an '06 or '07 would probably be pretty safe. Another thing is the FX4 suspension package, all I have to say about that is be prepared for 1 hell of a rough ride! I thought my 2002 with the off road package rode rough till I got my 2003 with the FX4 package, up until a few weeks ago I was keeping 600 lbs of sand at the very back of the bed just to try and smooth out the ride a little bit.
thanks everyone for the info but i pulled the trigger already and bought a 2007 f250 outlaw
the 7.3 is for sale and will be gone shortly, have alot of people interested
i own a truck shop and have an equel amount of satisfed and dissatified customers with all three brands the old 7.3 is a lot easier truck to work on as for it's reliability when they first came out i worked at a dealer and they were a real headache now i hear the 6.4 is the problem. i don't know how big your trailer is but john long has a sprinter and they load two bkes in it and all the junk to run ama supersport and rides all over the country at 24 mpg talked to him yesterday cost 200 bucks to go from barber to fontana thats what i'm getting next and just leave all the junk at the house that we don't use anyway marc
Quote from: racerhall on May 03, 2007, 11:39:19 AM
thanks everyone for the info but i pulled the trigger already and bought a 2007 f250 outlaw
the 7.3 is for sale and will be gone shortly, have alot of people interested
Your 2007 should have the new 6.4, let me know what you think about it. I'm looking to get rid of my 04' soon and trade up.
The '07 6.4 is going to cost plenty after warranty for any repairs. Most engine work requires lifting the cab off chassis! That's the only way to get at the engine. Take a look sometime and ask a Ford service tech. Even the earlier '03 on up 6.0 have some of the same situation but not as bad as the '06-'07 6.4.
A Ford service rep said "I'd bet $100 that I could toss a handfull of quarters on top of that motor and none of them would hit the floor". It is that packed in there. :wtf:
Man, those new trucks look NICE!! LOVE the interior! Gonna keep my trusty 7.3 though for lots more miles though..
Quote from: weggieman on May 05, 2007, 04:01:20 PM
The '07 6.4 is going to cost plenty after warranty for any repairs. Most engine work requires lifting the cab off chassis! That's the only way to get at the engine. Take a look sometime and ask a Ford service tech. Even the earlier '03 on up 6.0 have some of the same situation but not as bad as the '06-'07 6.4.
A Ford service rep said "I'd bet $100 that I could toss a handfull of quarters on top of that motor and none of them would hit the floor". It is that packed in there. :wtf:
That is the nice thing about diesel warranties, 100k! I beat and work the hell out of them for three years, get a little over 100k on them and put them out to pasture.
i was at the dealer picking up parts and they had a 6.4 out it was huge you would not believe it came out of a pickup it's imposable to do anything without lifting the cab. open the hood on the new Toyota tundra i know its gas but you can stand there and see everything .if they only made a dually I personally had the best luck from the v10I had a 36ft trailer and towed well it did not have low end like my 7.3 but it never left me like the 7.3 and it was $5k cheaper witch made up for the 4 mpg difference
I think the cab lifts make sense, honestly. It's only a matter of doing the work, and you have full access. Medium duty trucks do in frame rebuilts. Again, it's just easier to do some of those things. Yeah, you're not going to do that at home, but with all the electrical and emission related stuff, well, things are just different.
the 6.4 is only in the 2008 trucks and is a twin turbo
2007 has the 6.0 turbo and thats what i have
and i have a sprinter for my parts van here at work and they are nice and get great gas milage but i would need to pull a trailer as well and i dont know how good it would be then, im sure its great without a trailer though
They just need to fit a full tilt hood on the 6.4's and be done with it. I can get to most everything on the Freightliner easily.
I think I heard from a ford diesel tech that they can pull the cab in around an hour so its not all that bad. Repairs from there take WAY less time I would assume.. I know working on my 7.3 is a PITA because everything is pretty crammed in there, NTM I have to stand on a stool or perch myself on top of the motor lol!
I wonder if you can put a cab on with dzus fasteners?
Quote from: Mongo on May 07, 2007, 05:01:09 PM
They just need to fit a full tilt hood on the 6.4's and be done with it. I can get to most everything on the Freightliner easily.
ding ding ding... we have a winner... Between the tilt-forward hood and cotter pin fenders that come off in about 2 seconds, I can stand up inside the motor 'area' and do just about anything on the kodiak...