Motorcycle Racing Forum

Motorcycle Racing => Motorcycle Talk => Topic started by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 10:36:56 AM

Title: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 10:36:56 AM
So, does everyone have their local school district trying to have referendums and all that jazz?

I guess when you're a property owner, you get a bit more sensative to all that stuff.

When I was in school, I was involved in some extra cirricular activities that weren't supported by the school district.  My parents and I paid for those.  They weren't all that expensive, but they had a cost.  At least we paid for what we were doing.

Closer to me, a school district is ramping up for their attempt to get more money.  Of course, they say that all kinds of things will have to go.

I say, get rid of them.  Why not focus on education alone?  There are plenty of soccer and football things out there outside of the school system.  Even band programs. 

Sure, they are nice and all, but they are nice and all only.  Read, write, and learn math. 
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Court Jester on April 09, 2007, 10:53:35 AM
i think schools should focus on teaching stuff. not sports. sports are good but they should be apart from school and not funded by the schools. my 2 cents
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Gixxerblade on April 09, 2007, 11:07:40 AM
I think that school sports are an important part of the education system. It makes for a more well-rounded person in the long run. In North Carolina we have a lottery that is paying for a lot of that. Maybe thats the route that many of your states shoudl go.
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 11:08:27 AM
Good article...

http://www.mises.org/story/2419
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 11:09:43 AM
Quote from: Gixxerblade on April 09, 2007, 11:07:40 AM
I think that school sports are an important part of the education system. It makes for a more well-rounded person in the long run. In North Carolina we have a lottery that is paying for a lot of that. Maybe thats the route that many of your states shoudl go.

Anyone have studies that actually show that it makes someone "more rounded"?

I think a job made me more rounded than football practice ever did in high school.  "What's FICA?"

Mandetory military service would make people "more rounded" too.  But I don't want to pay for that either. 

I understand where you're coming from though. 
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 11:16:52 AM
Also, don't get me wrong, football is my favorite stick and ball sport, period. 

Cost? http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/137-02182007-1301031.html

If the tax payers can be obligated to pay for 30 guys to play football, why shouldn't they be obligated to pay for Jeff's daughters early career in motorcycles? 

They shouldn't. 
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Jeff on April 09, 2007, 12:26:22 PM
2 years ago they passed a referrendum which upped our taxes to pay for a $5M "fine arts center" to replace the existing one at Hamilton High School.  I asked when the tax would be removed.  There were crickets chirping in the distance...  Nobody had an answer.  It was like everyone was fine with bumping up taxes since it was only $50/yr, but nobody seemed to realize (or care) that this tax would *NEVER* be removed! 

I voted no...  It still passed...
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Court Jester on April 09, 2007, 01:01:35 PM
parenting you children will make them more rounded than anything else.
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: spyderchick on April 09, 2007, 02:11:29 PM
 :preachon:

This topic is stickier than you might think. I had a friend on the school board in Greenfield (WI). She said when they were cutting teachers or art programs, no one would show up, but cut the funding for school sports like football or basketball, and they got bitched out by everyone and their brother.

Thing is, no one paid for Rhiannon's lessons she took after school, be they music, dance or gymnastics. Want to play football? Pay for it. want your kid to play soccer? Pay for it. They took driver's ed out of the hands of the school districts here, parents have to pay for it out of their pocket. To me driving is a life skill, maybe that's what should be taught in schools. Football, etc, are great, but not all kids are interested in it. Where do we draw the line to be equitable to all students?

I could go on for pages. Yeah, hot button issue for me.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 02:33:29 PM
I'm on your side, Alexa.  Let everyone pay for their stuff.  Teachers are needed.  Some kind of building is needed, but it doesn't need plasma screens and stuff.  Morton Buildings makes decent stuff.  Do that, and be done with it. 
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Gixxerblade on April 09, 2007, 03:17:55 PM
Come to think of it. You got me thinking Dave. I really whole-heartedly agree with you. Let them join the military. Who gets the enjoyment out of football and other school sports except the kids. Make their parents pay for it. Heck make the NFL pay for school football because they ultimately reap the costs of great football players. I say every one of those snot nosed kids have a to goto the military after high-school before they goto college and waste moms and dads hard earned money on something silly like college. Let them grow up first. When they graduate college they aren't but 22 years old, definitely not old enough to hold a good job.
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: JBraun on April 09, 2007, 05:00:57 PM
I'm trying not to comment here, but I'm afraid I can't help it.

You're talking about taking opportunities away from kids. There are talented kids all over the country who earn scholarships to colleges their parents could never afford because they're good at sports. If their parents had to pay for them to play, they'll never get that opportunity.

I was an athlete in high school, and frankly I learned more on the field/court/track than I learned in the classroom. I went to a average size school, and out district reached into several small farm communities. We always had good football teams, thanks to some very tough farm kids who probably would never be on the field if their family had to work it into the budget. Some of them went on to play in college, and one in particular made it to the NFL.

HS sports are a necesary part of the experience. Everyone in the school benefits, not just the athletes.

Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: roadracekid on April 09, 2007, 05:37:14 PM
sports are important to the kids that play the sports,  sports keep the kids out of trouble and also keep the kids that arent that modavated to get good grades.  At my school u had to hold a c average to play sports.
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on April 09, 2007, 06:01:31 PM
Dave you should see how f-e dup Janesville School district is. $70 million (yes M-I-L-L-I-O-N!!!) referendum for stupid ass shit thats NOT NEEDED (ie new landscaping, putting air condition in the new elementary school built not more than 5-7 yrs ago (they built it WITHOUT air con and non opening windows) because the teachers are whining about the heat in teh early summer months. They LOVE to spend money here on frivilous stuff. Art Deco style building fronts, $1M dollar swimming pool that the public voted against but yet they still built it.
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 06:23:48 PM
Have I opened a can of worms...   :biggrin:

Why should a select number of kids have "opportunities" even when others don't have those opportunities?

A JROTC program would be an opportunity, and more would actually be able to benefit from a career from some kind of service.  The NFL is such a long shot.  It's nice that someone would be that good, but...that's a rare opportunity.

On the flip side, for a period of time, I went to a Catholic HS.  To play, you pay and invest time.  School wasn't free either.  There were guys there that went on to play college football and coach for college teams.  Haven't kept track of them lately.


Why should tax payers provide complete opportunities? 
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 06:27:41 PM
Quote from: roadracekid on April 09, 2007, 05:37:14 PM
sports are important to the kids that play the sports,  sports keep the kids out of trouble and also keep the kids that arent that modavated to get good grades.  At my school u had to hold a c average to play sports.

I think the first part is tellling.  Sports are important to kids that play the sports.  So, why should they be funded by the families that don't have kids that play sports?

Why shouldn't I be able to invest that money in my kid's education?  That could be education during HS years or after.  Again, that would keep my kid out of trouble, maybe. 
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: Gixxerblade on April 09, 2007, 03:17:55 PMHeck make the NFL pay for school football because they ultimately reap the costs of great football players.

Now that's very interesting...
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: JBraun on April 09, 2007, 06:57:52 PM
Quote from: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 06:23:48 PM

Why should a select number of kids have "opportunities" even when others don't have those opportunities?

 
Right now everyone has an opportunity to do something. Sports, theatre, music, whatever.
If you make the parents pay for those programs, THEN you're selecting who gets the opportunities and who doesn't.
There are hard working parents out there who simply could not afford to put their kid into sports.
There are also loser parents who would rather spend their money on cigarettes and beer than get their son or daughter into sports. Why should their kids suffer?
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: fourandsix on April 09, 2007, 07:12:24 PM
I have actually been on 2 school boards and still am on the High School Education Foundation board. I worked for both referendums at the High and elementary schools (both passed). I have been the president of the  Baseball and football feeder programs at the high school for over 12 years.

Until i became involved i wasn't sure as a taxpayer if i was getting ripped off on my property taxes by the schools. Once on the inside i was surprised how screwed up school funding is. It is very hard to understand as the state requires many dumb things here in IL.

I would get involved more at your district level , then you can see where the money really goes.

Jim

Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Garywc on April 09, 2007, 07:45:30 PM
school sucks it useless
maybe teaches you spell or some thing like that but who needs that
here in New jersey we have the SCC the school construction corp or some shit like that. and since I am partners in a small union shop we do alot of school work.
there is almost 700 million of school work to be since i think 2001 to 2010 so far the SCC has gone broke twice because of misuse of funds then the latest was 30 million given to them from some kind of grant and they hired over 10 people to make sure that the money don't get misused again. but each of those 10 jobs is around 50 to 100 thousand a year per person to watch money.
then there is no one who is watch the or inspection the buildings for the mot part so there is a lot of corners cut and crappy work going on. so in a few years once these contractors are paid and the buildings start falling apart the schools lose out and the tax payers.
then there is the school buses that are paid for with tax payers money
one school bus was picking up kids in one town to bring them to another school for some classes and there was an illegal  alien getting on the bus and taking it to the school then walking down the road to the farm where he worked.when the driver said something to her office they said let him do what he wants don't start any trouble.
so thats some good tax money well spent if you ask me

Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 07:52:25 PM
Well, we have differences in opinions, Jason. 

Sports, music, theater...  do it away from school.  School should be about some core things and that's it.  I feel that "public education" has developed far away from from public education.  Sports, theater, music.  That's special interest.

As for parents that spend money on cigarettes and beer...

There are parents that spend money on cars and other things too.  I'm not sure if that's the responsibility of retired home owners to pay for those things.  Why should the public school system be enabling to parents, married or otherwise, to not support their children with their car and cigar money through tax payers?
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Garywc on April 09, 2007, 07:54:39 PM
here the celebrate the 100th day of school by having the kids put one hundred things on a pice of paper or a hat
that must teach them something.
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 08:00:40 PM
Yeah, we have that here too. 

I like it when my kids draw airplanes with 100 bullet holes or something then...LOL!
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: weggieman on April 09, 2007, 08:50:05 PM
What is education? Is it just reading, writing and math? I don't think so. An education does not stop at the three R's. It should be an education into as many things as possible. The sciences, the arts and more.

If tax payers only paid for the services they each want there would be no services? I drive a 4 wheel drive truck, does that mean I should have the choice of my taxes paying for snow plowing or not?  If I compost and recycle everything in my house should I have the right to pay or not for garbage pick up? What about police protection? I rarely if ever call or need a cop. Should I have the choice of not paying for a police dept. through my taxes? Think about it.

My daughter attends a Catholic school and we pay dearly for that. We also pay and volunteer for her to participate in extra curicular activities. The school does pay for a lot though, travel and other expenses for her team to participate in meets. On that note......why am I paying taxes for public schools since I'm paying for my daughter to attend a private school? Because if we didn't there wouldn't be any publkic schools!

I would much rather have my children attend a school with other activities than the three Rs because I guarantee they will have a better education because of it. In anything they do outside of the three Rs they are learning. They learn sportsmanship, team work, ethics and more. More than they would get with a "basic" education.

I wouldn't mind paying for a school system that I know is doing a good job. If yours isn't you need to get more involved and make sure they do. i'm paying for Milwaukee Public schools and never had a kid in them!!
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: fourandsix on April 09, 2007, 09:13:35 PM
Quote from: Garywc on April 09, 2007, 07:54:39 PM
here the celebrate thee 100th day of school by having the kids put one hundred things on a piece of paper or a hat
that must teach them something.


Schools do that now as parents complain if they are too competitive. That's why there is no dodge ball in gym and all sorts of other things that have no winners. We are more about enabling kids and labeling them. My wife is also a School Principal you should hear the horror stories.

I have 4 kids in the school system and thank god for public schools , i feel Gordy's pain . It would cost me over $27000 a year to put all 4 thru private school. The other problem is all the older people that don't have children that complain they shouldn't pay taxes towards schools as their kids are done going thru them . Well who paid when their kids were in School , people like me for the years before mine entered or the older people back when. It all works out.
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 09, 2007, 09:21:05 PM
I think public education is necessary.  Don't get me wrong there. 

I think it can be done a whole lot cheaper. 

Enabling.  There's that word, Jim...LOL!  I used to love dodge ball.  That was fun.  Now, it seems like they do goofy things in gym, like you said, that no one wins or looses.  Can't have any winners or victims.   :wah:
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: weggieman on April 09, 2007, 10:12:54 PM
Don't get me wrong. I don't mind paying for public schools. I attended public schools.

Public schools are paid for in various ways around the country. They are not all funded by taxes. That is a problem in Wisconsin. The leaders here have never looked at any alternative ways of funding public schools. The state motto is "Forward", when in fact we are one of the most ass backward states in the union.
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Garywc on April 09, 2007, 10:17:33 PM
do you think the lottery money really goes to schools and senior citizens like some states say they do?

I don't have any kids yet that i know of
but my mother drives a school bus and my sister is a teacher so i hear a lot of the stories that make me wonder who the hell is in charge of the education system
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Super Dave on April 10, 2007, 07:05:42 AM
In Wisconsin, lottery money goes toward property taxes on the state side.  I can't say that the lottery money pays for schools.
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: 251am on April 10, 2007, 08:13:47 AM
 Public School costs are a bargain, especially here in Wisconsin where I believe our public schools are nationally rated somewhere in the top 5. You gotta have sports and other extra-curricular activities to socilaize the kids to other kids. 

  The rip off, as far as taxes are concerned, is the voucher program in which PRIVATE schools are partially funded by all taxpayers. My state tax dollars are being re-distributed to PRIVATE schools?! I don't get it-have I heard something wrong here in this "voucher" program?   :whine: 
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: Jeff on April 10, 2007, 09:57:54 AM
So on the broad topic of schools & funding, here's a huge pet peeve of mine.

In the Hamilton School District (Waukesha county), middle & high school, they grade on a letter scale in Science (A-F), HOWEVER, if a student takes a lab and scores LESS than an 80, they receive a 0 (yes, ZERO) until they repeat it over & over & over and get above an 80.

Why? 

It puts the school in a higher state bracket and allows for more funding.

Now, talk about a bunch of shit...  So my kid scores a 75 and you give them a ZERO?  WTF is that all about?!?!  The class has grades A-F, but if it's less than a B, you have an F.  Why can't you just make it a pass/fail? 

I can't even begin to explain how pissed this makes me and disgusted it makes me with our education system and govt funding practices...
Title: Re: Public School Costs...
Post by: spyderchick on April 10, 2007, 10:10:10 AM
Oh for the good ol' days when I could sit in class and do nothing, (I did learn the material), and then show up on test day, ace the exam, and get an "A" in the class because I wore short skirts and go-go boots.  :biggrin:

The benefits of being a smart cookie, literally and figuratively.