After a lot of research, it seems that there's a lot of different oils used by everybody, but I'm having a hard time finding why each person uses that oil. Personal preference towards the company, better for bike, better performance, lasts longer...etc. So, what oil do you, the racers use, and why?
Search :boink: O-I-L- gotta believe theres :blahblah:miles of chat in there,Pete- :thumb:
Yup, oil is good.
I generally use Shell Rotella T, the synthetic.
Silkolene 5w40 full syn...and they pay. -Snack
Quote from: Super Dave on March 25, 2007, 10:51:48 AM
Yup, oil is good.
I generally use Shell Rotella T, the synthetic.
:cheers:
Or Mobil 1
Quote from: SnacktimeKC on March 25, 2007, 12:31:50 PM
Silkolene 5w40 full syn...and they pay. -Snack
yup :thumb:
Amsoil 20/50 Racing Series as I've used it for about 7 years in street bikes and 4 years in race bikes. Never had an issue with BMWs, Hondas, KTMs, or Suzukis.
I even paper filter the drained oil from race bikes and re-use it in stuff like the wife's car, lawn mower, generator. Haven't had a failure yet.
Thanks guys for the responses...but I'm most interested in WHY you use the oils you do. WHY is your oil better than the next guys?
Quote from: CATMAN on March 25, 2007, 12:47:13 AM
Search :boink: O-I-L- gotta believe theres :blahblah:miles of chat in there,Pete- :thumb:
Hey, CATMAN, I did search, and you are right, there is a lot of information on oil, but mostly I use this or I use that. I would really like to learn the specifics on why someone chooses Mobil 1 over Amsoil, etc.
they are all really good. thats the only answer you need. any quality race oil or high end off the shelf synthetic is going to be MORE than good enough to keep your bike lubricated especially in race motors where they get fresh oil every or every other weekend.
Extra Virgin Olive Oil. Yummy. :biggrin:
Why? Here's why I do what I do...
Shell Rotella T is a diesel engine oil. Diesel engine oils have to go through a lot of hammering because of the orifices and all they have to go through in the engine. And they need to have non-foaming capabilities. They don't have some of the characteristics of some of the "energy conserving" car oils which aren't the greatest for motorcycle applications.
Honestly, there are a lot of opportunities.
Shell Rotella T is easy to get a hold of. It's a common diesel oil used by fleets, etc. So, it's available at most truck stops and at Walmart or Tractor Supply Company. Price is pretty reasonable. I use it in my bikes, the bus, and our cars. I recycle it after using it as a lubricant into my diesel tank to get down the road.
Quote from: Super Dave on March 25, 2007, 06:55:33 PM
I recycle it after using it as a lubricant into my diesel tank to get down the road.
Anything special about doing this? I've heard about it but never really did any research on it, don't even know were to start.
Oh yea...to answer your question Pete, I use Honda HP4....cuz I get it cheap from my sponsor.
I try to filter it with anything. Paper towels, etc. Working on something a bit more sophisticated, but I ended up just making a mess on my garage floor... :ahhh:
I like to use it to spike my diesel. But, I did live on the edge and I put in five gallons in a quarter tank. Probably made my fuel around 35% waste oil. I probably wouldn't do it to the newer diesels. They are picky.
I use Motul
Found this very interesteing reading http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf (http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf)
I use Castro R4 full synthetic in my street and race bikes. Why? Well, it's probaby 50% personal preference and 50% proof.
In 29,000 street miles (changing every 3,000) I've never had one issue. When I had the 16,000 checkup done, the mechanic asked what kind of oil I'd been using. He said he asked because when he pulled the valve covers the valvetrain looked brand new, there was zero sludge, etc. So I've stayed with the R4.
BUT - like Ben said - any top-line oil is good stuff. There's an excellent chance that had I been using Motul/Silkolene/Yamalube, I'd have seen the same results. But since I was using Castrol, and the results were good, I've just kept with it.
Quote from: Team_Serpent on March 26, 2007, 12:48:18 PM
I use Motul
Found this very interesteing reading http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf (http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf)
HD Road King - .66 hp per cubic inch :lmao:
I use Mobil1 because oil is oil and this oil happens to be cheaper than all that other $8/quart stuff. I cam get a gallon for $11 at Wally World. There has been no substantial proof that any branded motorcycle oil is any different than conventional synthetic car oil. Just don't use the oil conserving stuff and you'll be grand. I am totally with SD with that Shell Rotella. Cheap as heck and if it works in a high compression engine like a diesel why wouldn't it work in a lower compression motorcycle engine?
Quote from: JBraun on March 26, 2007, 02:35:10 PM
HD Road King - .66 hp per cubic inch :lmao:
I don't get it
Quote from: Gixxerblade on March 26, 2007, 03:09:30 PMThere has been no substantial proof that any branded motorcycle oil is any different than conventional synthetic car oil.
Hey Steve, hope all is well.
here are a couple of items taken from the white parper link I posted to address what you posted above.
It is important to point out that not all internal combustion engines are similarly
designed or exposed to the same types of operation. These variations in design and operation place different demands on engine oils. Specifically, the demands placed on motorcycle engine oils are more severe than those placed on automotive engine oils. Therefore, the performance requirements of motorcycle oils are more demanding as well.
Though the degree may be debatable, few will disagree that a difference exists between automotive and motorcycle applications. In which area these differences are and to what degree they alter lubrication requirements are not clear to most motorcycle operators. By comparing some basic equipment information, one can better understand the differences that exist.
There are six primary differences between motorcycle and automotive engine applications:
1. Operational Speed - Motorcycles tend to operate at engine speeds significantly higher than automobiles. This places additional stress on engine components, increasing the need for wear protection. It also subjects lubricating
oils to higher loading and shear forces. Elevated operating RPMs also promote foaming, which can reduce an oil's load-carrying ability and accelerate oxidation.
2. Compression Ratios - Motorcycles tend to operate with higher engine compression ratios than automobiles. Higher compression ratios place additional stress on engine components and increase engine operating temperatures. Higher demands are placed on the oil to reduce wear. Elevated operating temperatures also promote thermal degradation of the oil, reducing its life expectancy and increasing the formation of internal engine deposits.
3. Horsepower/ Displacement Density - Motorcycle engines produce nearly twice the horsepower per cubic inch of displacement of automobile engines. This exposes the lubricating oil to higher temperatures and stress.
4. Variable Engine Cooling - In general, automotive applications use a sophisticated water-cooling system to control engine operating temperature. Similar systems can be found in motorcycle applications, but other designs also
exist. Many motorcycles are air-cooled or use a combination air/oil design. Though effective, they result in greater fluctuations in operating temperatures, particularly when motorcycles are operated in stop-and-go traffic. Elevated operating temperature promotes oxidation and causes oils to thin, reducing their load carrying ability.
5. Multiple Lubrication Functionality - In automotive applications, engine oils are required to lubricate only the engine. Other automotive assemblies, such as transmissions, have separate fluid reservoirs that contain a lubricant
designed specifically for that component. The requirements of that fluid differ significantly from those of automotive engine oil. Many motorcycles have a common sump supplying oil to both the engine and transmission. In such cases,
the oil is required to meet the needs of both the engine and the transmission gears. Many motorcycles also incorporate a frictional clutch within the transmission that uses the same oil.
6. Inactivity - Motorcycles are typically used less frequently than automobiles. Whereas automobiles are used on a daily basis, motorcycle use is usually periodic and in many cases seasonal. These extended periods of inactivity place
additional stress on motorcycle oils. In these circumstances, rust and acid corrosion protection are of critical concern. It is apparent that motorcycle applications place a different set of requirements on lubricating oils. Motorcycle oils, therefore, must be formulated to address this unique set of high stress conditions.
Quote from: Team_Serpent on March 26, 2007, 03:50:41 PM
I don't get it
In the link you posted there's a chart with specifications on several different engine types. In the HP per CI column the Harley brings up the rear. Worse than a Ford Explorer.
I thought that was funny.
Quote from: JBraun on March 26, 2007, 04:57:03 PM
In the link you posted there's a chart with specifications on several different engine types. In the HP per CI column the Harley brings up the rear. Worse than a Ford Explorer.
I thought that was funny.
That is funny :lmao:, didn't see that, good eye.
So I guess we could say that most motorcycles except Harleys put a higher demand on motor oil over automobiles :biggrin:
Quote from: Team_Serpent on March 26, 2007, 12:48:18 PM
I use Motul
Found this very interesting reading http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf (http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf)
That is the most comprehensive oil testing I have ever seen. I would like to see this type of testing performed by an independent lab who is not being funded by one company to see if the results would be the same
Quote from: Gixxerblade on March 26, 2007, 03:09:30 PM
I use Mobil1 because oil is oil and this oil happens to be cheaper than all that other $8/quart stuff. I cam get a gallon for $11 at Wally World. There has been no substantial proof that any branded motorcycle oil is any different than conventional synthetic car oil. Just don't use the oil conserving stuff and you'll be grand. I am totally with SD with that Shell Rotella. Cheap as heck and if it works in a high compression engine like a diesel why wouldn't it work in a lower compression motorcycle engine?
my f2 seized rod and crank bearings on mobil 1 car oil... i'd be carefull
Quote from: EX_#76 on March 26, 2007, 05:31:13 PM
That is the most comprehensive oil testing I have ever seen. I would like to see this type of testing performed by an independent lab who is not being funded by one company to see if the results would be the same
Yeah, I'd like to see a variety of 5W30 weights compared as well.
Here's a really long thread.
Yes, automotive oils are not motorcycle oils. But diesel rated oils are not automotive oils. Again, big differences. Very informative, and there's tons to read. Some people even us some motorcycle specific oils in their track cars. Real interesting.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=332678
Quote from: robsob on March 26, 2007, 05:42:32 PM
my f2 seized rod and crank bearings on mobil 1 car oil... i'd be carefull
Was it the use of car oil or was it just a seized rod and crank bearing? Did you send your oil to a lab for analysis after to be sure it wasn't the oil?
I will post some good articles too that aren't biased T.S. but are writen by oil guys.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
also can't forget BobtheOilGuy
http://bobistheoilguy.com/
You can forget the argument about branded motorcycle oil having higher compression because nothing in the world has a higher compression internal combustion than a diesel. (My Ford F250 is in the order of 25:1)
Quote from: Gixxerblade on March 26, 2007, 07:31:22 PMhigher compression because nothing in the world has a higher compression internal combustion than a diesel. (My Ford F250 is in the order of 25:1)
25 : 1 ???????? well you are about 7 points higher the highest compression big truck motors and about 6 points higher than the baddest hotrod cummins around. you should check your tool.
My bad I didn't do the research on that. 18:1 on a PSD. That is still about 6 points higher than a 600.
I use golden spectro synthetic.... change it every 10,000 miles whether it needs it or not. I have never had an oil related failure.
Actually if you go to this thread on the WERA BBS you can read a little bit about Spectro and what Diet Dr Thunder found out when he sent it in to an oil lab for analysis.
http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=119176&highlight=oil
Another good link.
Didn't know so many other people used Rotella.
RepSol 4T Racing full syn. no complaints at all.
Quote from: SloKidd on March 28, 2007, 01:36:02 PM
RepSol 4T Racing full syn. no complaints at all.
+1 for Repsol :thumb:
Quote from: Gixxerblade on March 26, 2007, 03:09:30 PM
I use Mobil1 because oil is oil and this oil happens to be cheaper than all that other $8/quart stuff. I cam get a gallon for $11 at Wally World. There has been no substantial proof that any branded motorcycle oil is any different than conventional synthetic car oil. Just don't use the oil conserving stuff and you'll be grand. I am totally with SD with that Shell Rotella. Cheap as heck and if it works in a high compression engine like a diesel why wouldn't it work in a lower compression motorcycle engine?
hey Gixxerblade,
I agree that it is outrages to spend $8 a quart on oil that you are going to drain out a weekend or 2 later. All the research that I have done on oils has shown me that there is a difference between car and motorcycle oil. I'm not going to get into the whole tech side of it because I haven't read up on it in the past year or so but keep in mind that a car revs out at about 6 grand (depending what car you have) and some bikes rev out at 14g or so. You gat the idea. Last time I checked most or no car oils can hold up to that kind of abuse that a race bike will put out. On the other hand if you are a race guy who changes there oil every weekend and is spending $40.00 every time to chance your oil gets old real fast.
This is some hardcore oil stuff. Good information. Thanks guys.
Quote from: kvanengen on March 28, 2007, 05:12:02 PM
hey Gixxerblade,
I agree that it is outrages to spend $8 a quart on oil that you are going to drain out a weekend or 2 later.
I'd like to chime in on the cost thing
How much do you spend on horsepower?
The numbers below have been rounded for easy math and this is just an example to show the idea.
Lets say you spend somewhere around $200 - per horsepower when building an engine. So if you increase your output by 10 horsepower you probably spent about $2000.00 to get there.
At first, Fuel like MR9 seems to be a great deal at $20.00 a gallon for 6 horsepower, but remember it's like crack, you keep wanting more so once you've spent that first $20 bucks your hooked. So you end up using 10 gallons a weekend ($200) for 10 rounds ($2000). So in the end you've now spent $2000 dollars over the course of a season for 6 horsepower - $2000 / 6 = $333 per horse. Doesn't seem to be such a good deal now does it?
Now - who has tested different brands of oil on the dyno?
Well if you haven't I'll let you in on something - There's horsepower in them there hills!
So when your considering the cost of your oil you might want to consider the power vs. cost.
Quote from: kvanengen on March 28, 2007, 05:12:02 PMLast time I checked most or no car oils can hold up to that kind of abuse that a race bike will put out.
I'll state again that auto rated oil is different than diesel rated oil. Auto oils have API "S" ratings and diesels have API "C" ratings. Motorcycle oils have generally subscribed to old API SG rating, automotive API ratings from several years ago.
I will agree that some oils can increase power when compared to others. Some might only do it for a short period of time before that "wears off". It's back to cost. I've seldom been in the position where I've had the fastest bike, but my stuff still works pretty ok in my "budget".
Quote from: Team_Serpent on March 28, 2007, 05:53:06 PM
I'd like to chime in on the cost thing
How much do you spend on horsepower?
The numbers below have been rounded for easy math and this is just an example to show the idea.
Lets say you spend somewhere around $200 - per horsepower when building an engine. So if you increase your output by 10 horsepower you probably spent about $2000.00 to get there.
At first, Fuel like MR9 seems to be a great deal at $20.00 a gallon for 6 horsepower, but remember it's like crack, you keep wanting more so once you've spent that first $20 bucks your hooked. So you end up using 10 gallons a weekend ($200) for 10 rounds ($2000). So in the end you've now spent $2000 dollars over the course of a season for 6 horsepower - $2000 / 6 = $333 per horse. Doesn't seem to be such a good deal now does it?
Now - who has tested different brands of oil on the dyno?
Well if you haven't I'll let you in on something - There's horsepower in them there hills!
So when your considering the cost of your oil you might want to consider the power vs. cost.
What oil do you use that gives you so much HP T.S.? :D Shell Rotella Syn-T 5w40. Yes it is a diesel oil but there has been much actual scientific evidence that it will not harm your engine. There are guys that I know that have compared oils like Amsoil and Rotella and there was not a shred of difference after a race weekend.
Quote from: PolishPete on March 28, 2007, 05:37:11 PM
hey Gixxerblade,
I agree that it is outrages to spend $8 a quart on oil that you are going to drain out a weekend or 2 later. All the research that I have done on oils has shown me that there is a difference between car and motorcycle oil. I'm not going to get into the whole tech side of it because I haven't read up on it in the past year or so but keep in mind that a car revs out at about 6 grand (depending what car you have) and some bikes rev out at 14g or so. You gat the idea. Last time I checked most or no car oils can hold up to that kind of abuse that a race bike will put out. On the other hand if you are a race guy who changes there oil every weekend and is spending $40.00 every time to chance your oil gets old real fast.
I want to rehash neither a) what everyone has said, nor b) what I posted up in that linked thread (and others), but here's the very short version of my experiences:
I have sent maybe 30 different oil samples in for analysis over the years, comparing and contrasting everything from convenience store oil to expensive bike-specific synthetics. Every vehicle I own runs Rotella-T synthetic as a result of the information gathered.
Here is a good link if you want to learn a bit about oil:
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
Thanks dDT.
Hope you guys don't think I'm saying anything against the Shell oil
I've never had any experieance with it, could be good stuff
Was just trying to add to the thread
Yes there are differences between car and bike oil. Biggest difference is the additives needed for transmission and clutch in your typical jap bike.
For my bikes over the last 35 years I have been a die hard Castrol user. Air cooled, liquid cooled, two stroke or four I always use Castrol. Just my little quirk. Never had an engine failure of any kind. You gotta stick with proven reliability.
Quote
Yes there are differences between car and bike oil. Biggest difference is the additives needed for transmission and clutch in your typical jap bike.
I've never seen any evidence that these additives make any difference in reports resulting from lab analysis of used oil, but I've certainly heard this quite a bit. I should have made clear that I'm not saying that any oil is junk (altough when I tested conventional Spectro, it was the worst of all, including 7-11 brand oil). I'm only relating my experience that the Shell stuff does a good job. Several others I've had tested also did a great job, including Motul at $10/qt, Amsoil at $9/qt, and Silkolene at $11.25/qt.
None of these out performed Rotella=T synth in any category, at $14/gallon...that's why I use it.
Cheers!
Oil...........any kind is better than none................
There are a lot of good oils out there. I have always said that as long as you use a high end reputable brand like Silkolene, Motul, Castrol ect........ You get the idea. As low as it is a true motorcycle oil because there is a difference between a car and bike oil. I us Silkolene (ride) oil. It's about $7.50 a quart and it works great. I drain it every 1 to 2 weekend and I have never had a motor or clutch problem. But that is what works for me. Every bike is different.
... I toss some sewing machine oil in when I see smoke.
I use baby oil...
oops, wrong forum, sorry.
:spank:
Quote from: dylanfan53 on March 29, 2007, 07:05:49 PM
I use baby oil...
oops, wrong forum, sorry.
:spank:
:lmao:
When I saw you posted to this thread, I expected nothing less.....
:biggrin:
Quote from: kvanengen on March 29, 2007, 03:01:34 PM
There are a lot of good oils out there. I have always said that as long as you use a high end reputable brand like Silkolene, Motul, Castrol ect…….. You get the idea. As low as it is a true motorcycle oil because there is a difference between a car and bike oil. I us Silkolene (ride) oil. It’s about $7.50 a quart and it works great. I drain it every 1 to 2 weekend and I have never had a motor or clutch problem. But that is what works for me. Every bike is different.
You didn't read anything in this thread, did you? :D
:biggrin:
Quote from: EX#996 on March 29, 2007, 09:50:44 PM
:lmao:
When I saw you posted to this thread, I expected nothing less.....
:biggrin:
I coulda deleted it...
LOL!
Repsol gives you a free toy when you buy there oil so thats how i chose what to buy last week
if you change it often like every race weekend it really wont matter what you use
Quote from: EX_#76 on March 26, 2007, 05:31:13 PM
That is the most comprehensive oil testing I have ever seen. I would like to see this type of testing performed by an independent lab who is not being funded by one company to see if the results would be the same
Amsoil!! I use their 0W-30 or 10W-30 syn because the have an excellent track (literally) record and the sponsorship is descent. The oil testing is for real, better than Mobile 1.
I just got a new sponsorship proposal yesterday from Cuck Ramage. Some of you may have known him as the Motorex guy. Well I guess they had a falling out and he is now working with a company called Panolin. I ordered some yesterday so I will run it in the bike and have it tested and post my results here. Its supposed to be higher quality synthetic but we shall see. Lab analysis doesn't lie.
I buy what ever name brand is on sale, lubritech use to give there stuff away on a win. Blew up a few motors on there brand. Weights depend on temps. Sometime even run a super heavy straight weight but use less amount of oil (compression-/+ weight/elevation= power). When in dought, consult owners manual.
Quote from: 61Ex on March 25, 2007, 03:41:13 PM
Amsoil 20/50 Racing Series as I've used it for about 7 years in street bikes and 4 years in race bikes. Never had an issue with BMWs, Hondas, KTMs, or Suzukis.
I even paper filter the drained oil from race bikes and re-use it in stuff like the wife's car, lawn mower, generator. Haven't had a failure yet.
Quote from: weggieman on March 29, 2007, 12:20:00 AM
Oil...........any kind is better than none................
Hey Gordie! I've run Suzuki oil for 5 years with no failures.
this is such a mundane question that has run for so long, I am beginning to think its market research....Show me some MONEY!!!!!
Do you guys see stunted (growth) bikes much? don't starve (the motor) eat what you like! :blahblah:
AMSOIL. It's proven to be probably the best. Also I'm a dealer for AMSOIL. Need anything?
Sponsorship??
Shoot me an email and see what I can do. amsoillube@hotmail.com
I could use some sponsorship too ;)
Anyone interested in Amsoil products can email me at amsoillube@hotmail.com
I normally use the liquid type of oil. Solid or paste not so much.