I've been going around my bike tying up everything I can find. I have some questions about whether what I did is correct or not... First on coolant lines I put a loop around the screw on the hose clamp and twisted it tight, then I wrapped it around the house onto the metal tab on the other side and twisted it tight on the last slot. Next for the exhaust hanging nut+bolt I tied the alan head up and pulled the wire around a corner and onto the other side with the bolt... Is it ok to make two turns like this? I'm just afraid some of these wires will rub from vibration and eventually breaK. I can post pictures later tonight.
Secondly the edmonton road racing association has a tech guide where they show a chain safety wired. Since the chain thats on this bike has a clip style master link I was wondering if I could do the same thing or if you guys think this is a little bit sketchy. see the website http://www.emra.ca/Tech%20Tips/Tech%20Tips.htm
Chris
Just my opinion, but that hose clamp wiring is useless as they hoses will pop off LONG before the wire comes into play. Additionally, the chain wiring is useless as depicted as the sprockets will cut the wire in short order.
I draw the line at safety wiring the tires to the wheels...
Wiring your chain's master link is unnecessary unless using a clip style. The picture on the sketch is correct though. (I believe its showing the link on the underside of the swingarm If done properly the wire will not come off. 1st the clip should be facing the correct direction (closed end in the direction of running) and towards the outside of the bike. You should use the pliers to squash the two ends together before twisting... remember to have the twisted ends pointing away from sprockets. Also, don't twist too hard. try it a few times and you'll understand. Finally, put a dab of silicon on it to "glue" it in place.
Don't let anybody tell you that a clip style is "dangerous". Just install it correctly after everytime your remove your chain for cleaning. Wiring the clip forces you to look at it... making sure it's installed correctly. That's the primary importance of wiring-everything.
Are your using an o-ring or non-oring chain? Non-o-ring chains should be lubricated daily and cleaned after every weekend.
Quote from: 123user on January 17, 2007, 04:43:17 PMDon't let anybody tell you that a clip style is "dangerous".
Nah, it's not dangerous - until the clip comes off and the chain jams between the front drive sprocket and the cases, puts a crack in the case and spills oil on the track or your rear tire.
It wasn't dangerous for me when my clip came off at the start just after I launched the bike from the front row of the grid and 40 some odd bikes nearly ass packed me. That was a lesson learned.
Loose the clip and get the rivet style and the tool to install it. Lot cheaper than many examples I could give that have happened to people over the years running clip style.
Why did your clip come off?? Was it wired? Was it siliconed in place? Was it installed correctly? Proper installation is the key! Surely it didn't "break" . I've never seen an actual "broken" master link yet
Always squeeze the side plates together with pliers before attempting to install the clip. Frequently a clip will appear to be properly hooked in the groove but just be barely in because there is not enough exposed groove.
I agree that a rivet links have reduced clip-loss- but they sure make chain maintenence a pain.
In the thousands of miles I've logged offroad, on track, on street with clips... I'm convinced they can be used safely... But hell, I still use non-o-ring chains (low friction=more power)
ive not had good luck w/ clip style master links either... ive wired them every way possible silicone/rtv too. the clip never has stayed on for very long, luckily i never lost the chain... its not worth the risk.... and yes they do break
123, Team Serpent isn't your average fly-by-night racer... If shit failed, it was very unlikely due to an improper installation...
That said, I've raced for 3 years with clip-links and never had one fail...
The problem with MOST failures (I won't claim this to be Temme's problem) is incorrect installation. Even with the clip-style, you need a plate press to get the plate on correctly. Additionally, a misaligned rear wheel will pop a clip master link quick as can be, where it won't pop the rivet style, but instead just chew up the rear sprocket...
Properly installed, maintained & aligned, the risks are mitigated significantly. However, a clip style is STILL a higher risk than a rivet link (all things equal - proper installation, etc).
As far as the clip style master links go, they are all I have used since I started racing in '96 and I have never had one come off (I have never safety wired one in my life). I don't know if it's because I'm doing something different, triple checking to make sure the backing plate is seated all the way before installing the clip, or if it's just because I buy the more expensive chains? Thinking about this the only chain I have ever had fail in my life was a stock chain installed from the factory (riveted), and that was because it was worn and started binding. Of course this is just my experience, it's certainly not a guarentee you won't have a problem.
More questions....
Can/should I safety wire the front sprocket? I looked at it the other day and the locking tab/metal piece you bend over the nut was not installed right... as in the front spocket could have spun itself loose eventually. Is it way overkill to use a locking tab and safety wire the nut to the sprocket?
Also there is an oil cooler and a brass/metal tube(I assume for oil) in the front part of my engine(2000 R6) do both of these items need to be somehow safety wired?
Finally for oil galley bolts what kind of sealant do I need to use? I heard safety wiring those can be a PITA.
Thanks for all the help, everything is going real well on my bike otherwise finally. I got the engine cover leaks fixed and fixed a whole bunch of broken threads from prior crash damage.
Quote from: 123user on January 17, 2007, 07:16:51 PMWas it wired? Was it siliconed in place? Was it installed correctly?
Yes, yes and yes.
Quote from: Jeff on January 17, 2007, 08:53:59 PM123, Team Serpent isn't your average fly-by-night racer... If shit failed, it was very unlikely due to an improper installation...
Thank You
Quote from: cgorham on January 18, 2007, 05:34:15 PMMore questions....Can/should I safety wire the front sprocket? locking tab and safety wire the nut to the sprocket?
What series are you racing? Edmonton?
Quote from: cgorham on January 18, 2007, 05:34:15 PM
More questions....
Can/should I safety wire the front sprocket? I looked at it the other day and the locking tab/metal piece you bend over the nut was not installed right... as in the front spocket could have spun itself loose eventually. Is it way overkill to use a locking tab and safety wire the nut to the sprocket?.
I have seen front sprocket troubles.
Usually the fold over tab works great, then I use an electric impact to put on the nut.
Drilling a front sprocket can be very hard because they are hardened...no pun intended.
Put the tab on correctly, and you should be fine.
I torque EVERYTHING, and for the front sprocket, if you get the kind with the holes in it, then wire it. If not, don't try drilling it...
Quote from: Jeff on January 22, 2007, 09:09:42 AM
I torque EVERYTHING, and for the front sprocket, if you get the kind with the holes in it, then wire it. If not, don't try drilling it...
When you say front sprocket with holes... what good does safety wiring the sprocket do? I've already successfully drilled the rear axle nut and rear sprocket nuts which are all hardened steel right? I can tell though that the front looks a lot more tough, what about just putting a hole in the locking washer and pulling it tight towards the other side? I don't think I should really worry too much about this since I should be checking the bike over each time I go to ride it... right? :)
Quote from: cgorham on January 22, 2007, 09:25:41 AM
When you say front sprocket with holes... what good does safety wiring the sprocket do?
Some front sprockets are made with a series of lightening holes so you can run the wire through there and then to a hole drilled through the flats of the sprocket nut. What good will it do? Piece of mind I guess.
how much safety wire are you putting on this thing??? If you're trying to get to the WERA standard of 6-lbs, you're getting close!
Quote from: cgorham on January 22, 2007, 09:25:41 AM
When you say front sprocket with holes... what good does safety wiring the sprocket do? I've already successfully drilled the rear axle nut and rear sprocket nuts which are all hardened steel right? I can tell though that the front looks a lot more tough, what about just putting a hole in the locking washer and pulling it tight towards the other side? I don't think I should really worry too much about this since I should be checking the bike over each time I go to ride it... right? :)
OK, I take it you're not racing and just want to be thorough?
Quote from: cgorham on January 22, 2007, 09:25:41 AMI've already successfully drilled the rear axle nut and rear sprocket nuts which are all hardened steel right?
The back stuff is generally soft, the front sprocket is hardend because it's a much tighter radius the chain is traveling around and all that force is being concentrated in a much smaller area. On a large sprocket the force is distributed over a larger area so you can get away with aluminum sprockets. If the sprocket is steel, and it's hardend, you won't be able to drill it without special drills (carbide).
Just for future reference, any of you guys that might be in a jam and have to drill something hardend you can buy masonary drills at a hardware store that are carbide tipped and use them to drill thru hard steel. It really helps if you can sharpen the carbide tip a little bit, but normal grinding wheels won't hardly touch carbide, it will just mess up your grinding wheel. Most people don't have access to a diamond wheel that's mounted on a pedestal grider, but you may be able to find a diamond wheel for a dremel or a diamond file that may help to sharpen the cutting edge a bit. If you try and drill with one of these drills use compressed air to blow down into the hole as you drill (wear safety glasses), this will remove the chips and help to cool the tip. Make sure and keep the drill sharp because as it gets dull and heats up the brazing that holds the carbide tip into the drill can melt and come apart and get lodged in the part your drilling. Apply firm but not excessive pressure when drilling (and do a pecking motion while drilling where you only apply pressure for a few seconds then back off to remove chips and reduce heat) or you will probably break the carbide tip since it's somewhat brittle. Hope this helps someone out of a jam someday. :thumb:
Quote from: 61Ex on January 22, 2007, 04:46:22 PM
OK, I take it you're not racing and just want to be thorough?
I'll be doing some WERA and mostly CCS at Summit Point. The first race I'm going to is March 10th at VIR with WERA. I'm getting my license on the 9th with Team Pro-Motion. I am being very thorough with the safety wire, I started by redrilling some holes in the front caliper bolts to make the safety wire actually do something other than look pretty, and just made my way to the back. I've got the foot pegs, the rear sets, exhaust, every coolant and oil line, safetied. I just want to make tech real smooth...
These guys sell repopinted carbide drill bits for really good prices. These bits will drill ANYTHING you want to put a hole in, I recommend using them in a drill press though since they are very brittle.
http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/10wirsizpac8.html
From the sound of it, I think you're going a bit overboard with the safety wire.
Just wire what is required and ask others what they recommend. I don't know that I've ever seen a rear sprocket wired, or rearsets wired. Likewise, I haven't seen more than a very scarce few fluid lines safety wired. Most if not all orgs simply require them clamped. Sometimes safety wire can do more harm than good (cut rubber lines, poke holes in them, etc).
Just my opinion....
Quote from: Jeff on January 23, 2007, 09:00:56 AM
From the sound of it, I think you're going a bit overboard with the safety wire.
Just wire what is required and ask others what they recommend...
Just my opinion....
I would have to agree. Safety wire is also a lot of work when removing/changing parts, so anything extra is just that much more work in the pits.
Quote from: Jeff on January 23, 2007, 09:00:56 AM
From the sound of it, I think you're going a bit overboard with the safety wire.
Just wire what is required and ask others what they recommend. I don't know that I've ever seen a rear sprocket wired, or rearsets wired. Likewise, I haven't seen more than a very scarce few fluid lines safety wired. Most if not all orgs simply require them clamped. Sometimes safety wire can do more harm than good (cut rubber lines, poke holes in them, etc).
Just my opinion....
Agreed, unless you're doing endurance racing - then a dab of silicon will usually do the trick on rearsets and alike. I had the rear sprocket bolts/nuts drilled and wired on one of my bikes a few years ago but after a few times dialing in gearing for a particular track I blew off wiring them - pain in the :ass:
Are those guys doing their hose clamps in a way that will pass tech with CCS? If so, that'll save me a TON of time...
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emra.ca%2FTech%2520Tips%2FTech%2520Tips%2520Graphics%2FHose%2520Clamps.jpg&hash=f475dc2c948b8b4172be59440a850ce960bf531c)
Do you have to safety wire hose clamps to pass tech with CCS?
Never had issues in 5 yrs with my hose clamps not being wired.
from the 2007 rulebook:
Quote
5.2 MOTORCYCLE TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS
5.2.13 All oil, fuel, and coolant carrying hoses or lines must be secured at all
connecting points by clips, clamps, safety wire, or other approved
means.
So do we NOT need to 'secure' them... or are the hose clamps condsidered the 'securing device' ?
Quote from: Grashopr on January 23, 2007, 03:36:21 PM
So do we NOT need to 'secure' them... or are the hose clamps condsidered the 'securing device' ?
Hose clamps are the securing device.
Off the top of my head I believe I have only had 3 things safety wired on all 3 of my race bikes over the last decade, that would be the oil drain plug, the oil filler, and the oil filter. I have never been questioned as to anything else not being safety wired, so I would assume that anything beyond those is pretty much an optional thing (not that more is a bad thing).
Are there any tech inspectors on the boards that can clear this up? What exactly is gonna get me tossed out of tech?