Will there be anyone left to race this year seems like everyone is runnning on small bugets!Myself included. I hope to be able to run some this year!!
I will take money outta my food budge to race ;D
Good question...
Every year, there is a turn over of racers. Not sure if this year is any different from the next. But there certainly is a lot of grumbling... Or at least there are more forums to talk about it.
As much as I enjoy CCS and the people my crew of racers just could not do the schedule that was laid out so the bulk of our racing will be done with another club. This was not an easy decision and only came about this week. 18 hours one way was just not do-able for a weekend, and then making it like double points puts us out of any type of good points finish.
I'm hearing that a lot. since most of the events are pretty far away from northern california a lot of us have to travel big distances to get to the CCS events so a lot of people are going to drop the CCS events and do afm. The whole practice thing makes it even easier to make that decision.
QuoteGood question...
Every year, there is a turn over of racers. Not sure if this year is any different from the next. But there certainly is a lot of grumbling... Or at least there are more forums to talk about it.
I agree with Dave on this one.
Some go, some stay, but there will always be someone to race against.
Dawn :)
P.S. This may be a backwards way of looking at it, but the smaller the grids, the better the chance for wood. When you tell someone that you took first, no one needs to know how many were actually in your class. ;D
well as long as all the fun cool people come back.. it's okay with me :)
I'll be back this year. After missing all but 2 weekends last year due to unemployment and no insurance. :(
Now I'll be back with a vengance to tear a certain TLR apart. ;D ;D ;D
QuoteP.S. This may be a backwards way of looking at it, but the smaller the grids, the better the chance for wood....
Or better yet... money
Why Rob... how sweet of you to offer to help John work on the bike! :-*
Trackdays are getting more popular. From the people I talked to at the New York motorcycle show regarding doing track days, quite a few people are very interested in racing. If they do come to the track and ride with us, I am sure they will follow our steps and get into CCS racing. So there are a fresh supply of new racers.
On the other hand, a few racers I know are dropping out. Some didn't like it, some didn't want to race with the tough Expert competition. But I think for everyone that are not coming back, there are 2 more interested.
I do think the grids will be smaller this year in MA. So many traveling events, so many rounds, so bad of an economy, many people's race budget are smaller, and have to do more rounds, I think far away events are going to be not busy at all, and closer ones will be slightly smaller because people pick and choose the weekends. Or as mentioned above, go with the other Org and race 8 times and still have a chance at a regional championship.
I am committed to a whole season though, even Barber :) Even though I just moved 2 hours farther away from every track that I go to :-/ see ya at the races
I am kinda thinking it will be about the same, the increased fees give more benefit than last year, ie transponders granted it will take half a year to get all regions trained and supplied but I think the upside of instant results and potential for accurate lap times/records is major bonus. I think CCS is headed into the future in the right direction. Slight price increase but overall when compared to the other things we buy at the track not that much increase. I have watched my tires go from 280 a set to almost 400 in last 3 years my fuel prices go from 1.19 to 1.54 brakes from $45 to $65 while my entry fees went from 135 to 160 and we are getting transponders while others are for the exact same thing! same tire same brake pads same 93 octane.
I agree with Eric. I've raced with and without transponders. The transponders are well worth any additional entry fees. For me, tires are by far the biggest part fo my racing budget. So much so that after years of using one brand I am switching simpily because of contingency money. If there is anywhere we should be concentrating our efforts it should be toward the gate fees for racers. Without us there is no show. No show means zero dollars going to the CCS and the track owners. 15 dollars per day just seems too steep. Just my humble opinion of course.
I didn't think the fee's that bad. Considering even Amatuers have 3 purse classes that are pretty easy(well relatively) to get your entry fee back while earning points and contengencies.
Transponder is cool. I remember at pocono last year, getting practice times in the rain and deciding to go buy rain tires because only 3 other people are using them and going 15 seconds faster :)
$5 increase is almost expected, without any increase in services provided. Getting the transponder for $5 is much better... it harder to score me off the lead lap in a GT race now 8)
All in all I am satisfied with the CCS product. But I do see that somepeople may be put off by the schedule...
Well, ill be doing some races for my first time this year. So heres one newbie to add to the mix.
Im going to try to do the blackhawk races, RA, Gingerman.
Maybe Mid-america and Baber. but its a long drive, I live in Indianapolis.
I'm pre-entred for the first 3 blackhawk races, RA and Gingerman. We'll see how much "fun" i have . Then we'll see about the rest.
Just got the racing body work in. Now its painting time. Any tips ??
wait till they make you practice on an ice cold track in 40 degrees so the street squids can ride when it's 60 degrees out... then let's see how you like their product. it's been good in the past but it just feels like we're getting screwed this year when we're supposed to be the core of their business.
i don't care if it costs 20 or 30 bucks more. when you drive this far you want the time you get to be quality time, otherwise what's the point? schedule practice so it can be used to set up the bikes. street riders have NOTHING to prepare for so they should take a back seat to people who have serious setup to worry about. it's not just about making for higher quality racing it's about safety.
Seems like I heard that argument in the LP thread.
Okay just to add my spin. :D I prefer more time between my practice and my race in order to get all things ready. New set of tires. get lunch and be sorted out relaxed.
I have seen/been there/scheduled races 30 minutes after practice ends. With Riders Meeting in that 30 minutes know how many riders were there for the meeting that were in the first race? about 25% not good not safe. Now when practice ends and you have a hour you start picking up at the riders meetings. And just FYI I would highly recommned that you either attend or have someone that will "sign in" for you at riders meetings in the future.
QuoteWhy Rob... how sweet of you to offer to help John work on the bike! :-*
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! She smoked ya, dude!
Quotewell as long as all the fun cool people come back.. it's okay with me :)
I agree, bring on the fun cool!
Years ago, there were no track days. So, to get track time, you raced. Over a period of time, track programs grew. This offered the opportunity for riders to get on a track and ride, without racing.
This has hurt the racing organizations, period.
The expenses for track rentals and insurance have gone up a whole lot in the past few years. But the base of riders that would go to a race track now have a lot of alternatives.
I mean, really, how many motorcyclists actually have sport bikes? Then, how many are actually sport riders? Next, how many actually have would consider taking that bike on a track? And finally, how many will race? It is a smaller number, obviously. With more track days, there has been less growth in road racing than what there could have been.
The AVERAGE racer lasts about two and a half years, I have always been told. That should account for the guy that tries it and leaves when he finds that this kind of competition is not for him, and the guy that stays.
The expenses do continue to rise for the racer too. In 1993, I would enter nine races, including GTU, GTO, and Unlimited Grand Prix for about $330. I'd be there in a heart beat in fewer races now. In 1987, it cost $60 for three races and tires for my GSXR were about $180.
I think the number of races in a region are a bit excessive, too. I mean, in the Midwest area, we'll race from April through early October, and we have fourteen event weekends? Hey, that's every other weekend, really. That's a whole lot of cash or credit to come up with.
I know the series championships help get riders to commit, and generate revenue for the racing organization, but would just few less dates help get more to attempt to follow the series?
Playing off of what Dave said, We've got 3 races at Roebling, and they're 'Twin Sprints' weekends. I'd rather drive down there 3 times instead of 6. Saves on hotels, gas, etc...AND race entrys are overall cheaper.
QuotePlaying off of what Dave said, We've got 3 races at Roebling, and they're 'Twin Sprints' weekends. I'd rather drive down there 3 times instead of 6. Saves on hotels, gas, etc...AND race entrys are overall cheaper.
Thats one way to look at it, but us Mid-Atlantic guys are supposed to go to Roebling twice. a lot of MA guys are from New Jersey, now me included, will have to drive 800 miles, or 12 hours, twice, for a regional weekend? That is $160 in gas, $40 in tolls. So we will have to spend $400 just to get to the track twice. Then we have Barber, and going to Daytona twice, so My traveling Budget is at $1200 for 5 weekends. Then we have what, 8 closer rounds? This year's regional series will be bought mostly, whoever that can go to the away rounds (they are ALL double points, or twin sprints too) will get ahead.
Lets see who's waller last out the year
Plus, driving 12+ hours means missing work Friday, and the monday following, and we won't be able to get any friday practice, unless you wanna miss work Thursday too. May as well take a week off to race a regional weekend
Hey R6, I hear you. I think that's crazy that RRR is on the MA schedule.
I'M not even sure that I'm gonna goto Barber... RRR is far enough for me.
I still want this to be fun. I want to race motorcycles, not wallets.
What you guys are saying is just as true in the Midwest. Road America, Blackhawk, Gingerman, and Gateway are all within 6 to 8 hours from Chicago. If you are unlucky enough to live somewhere besides Chicago, it will be much worse for you. Then CCS throws 2 events in Omaha and an event in Alabama into the mix. Due to the travel expenses, I will only be contesting Formula 40 for sure this year. As a result, I will be spending as much to travel as to race. If there were half as many events in a smaller area, I'd enter several more classes each weekend. Overall, CCS would get more of my money.
Cover it with white paint, then put a ton of stickers on it. Be sure to put all the contingency companies stuff on it, to receive your useless coupons and discounts. Be sure to get some bull crap discounts on parts like everyone offers me from your local dealer and then plaster you trailer with their logo so you can tell everyone, "they are one of my 'sponsors', " with that reality in your head of 10% off on somethig marked up 19%. >:(
Well that should do it, oh wait, charge the hell out of about three credit cards........BAM!!!! You're now a motorcycle road racer. Feels pretty good huh? ;)
QuoteI think the number of races in a region are a bit excessive, too. I mean, in the Midwest area, we'll race from April through early October, and we have fourteen event weekends? Hey, that's every other weekend, really. That's a whole lot of cash or credit to come up with.
I know the series championships help get riders to commit, and generate revenue for the racing organization, but would just few less dates help get more to attempt to follow the series?
I couldn't agree with you more, Dave. Last year I bit the bullet and did what ever it took to race. I wanted to win a championship and a plate and spent all of my money and then some(I know I'm not alone). I barely came up with the money for the last round. I know if you want to race bad enough, you do what it takes but fourteen weekends is ridiculous. CCS should get rid of the first and last couple races in the cold and let's have a ten race series. I actually think there is more of a draw to spend money on a ten race championship than a fourteen. Ten is a more realistic number, financially and time wise. I'll race as much as I can and so will everyone else, but no more Championship runs for this freak!
later,
Matt
Just a Question. Is there any way to get this ten races this year?and if ther isnt how can we get it for next year!
OK....... Maybe I'm missing something, but after checking the schedule, I see 8 regional series with 6 of the 8 regions with 10 races or less already.
Most of the Midwest racers are fortunate enough to be in a location that allows them a choice of realistically contesting in 3 different series.
Great Lakes, Midwest and Great Plains.
The problem here is that everyone wants to contest all 3 making it very expensive and time consuming.
Joe,
Just race the Great Lakes region. There already is a 10 race schedule and being from Chicago, you can easily reach every track in less than 5 hours with the exception of Mid-America (8 hours or so) You actually will travel less distance throughout the year in this region than if you contested the Midwest series.
Didn't I count fifteen races in the Midwest series?
And that's the one that has the six Blackhawk events, the one's closest to the Chicago area... The track with a huge number of racers around it.
And then to big expensive weekends at Road America... So that's eight events.
Chance in cutting the sheduled races? No. That's a done and contracted deal. For next year a changes? Probably not unless something really changes...
Great Lakes has fewer races, but I've got to go to all of the Blackhawks... my school, location...
Mid west
April 5-6 Blackhawk Farms *
April 25-27 Road America**@
May 10-11 Blackhawk Farms
May 23-25 Mid-America Motorplex* May 31-June 1 Blackhawk Farms
June 14-15 Gateway Intl Raceway
July 4-6 Mid-America Motorplex**@
July 19-20 Blackhawk Farms
August 8-10 Road America*
August 23-24 Blackhawk Farms
September 6-7 Blackhawk Farms
September 27-28 Gingerman Raceway
13 races
April 5-6 Blackhawk Farms*
April 25-27 Road America**@
May 17-18 Gingerman Raceway"
May 31-June 1 Blackhawk Farms
June 14-15 Gateway Intl Raceway
July 4-6 Mid-America Motorplex**@
August 8-10 Road America*
August 23-24 Blackhawk Farms
Sept.13-14 Gateway Int'l Raceway**
Sept.27-28 Gingerman Raceway
10 races
Great Plains
April 5-6 Blackhawk Farms*
April 25-27 Road America**@
May 17-18 Gingerman Raceway"
May 24-26 Mid-America Motorplex**@
June 14-15 Gateway Intl Raceway
July 4-6 Mid-America Motorplex**@
August 16-17 Barber Motorsports**
Sept.13-14 Gateway Int'l Raceway**
October 4-5 Gateway Intl Raceway*
9 races
October 4-5 Gateway Intl Raceway
Another spin on this is I'm racing CCS this year beacuse it has so many events. With so many events I feel like I can miss 1 or 2, maybe 3 & still have a chance. With only 8 offered, if you miss 2 you can probably forget winning anything.
I'm banking on the fact that most people in the MA will, like me, miss a few events.
We'll see.
Erik,
Any comment on Great Plains going to Gingerman, when there is a BHF the weekend before that would be several hours shorter for anyone who actually lived in the GP area?
Not complaining, just asking since this is a repeated comment I've heard from others also.
That being said, CCS will need to adjust the schedule to cut down on travel for a region. In the MA we go to Roebling twice but skip CMP which is a closer track. You past the exit for CMP on the way to GA. ??? I know this came from rider feedback, but I have a feeling it was a small group. I know I didn't even get the letter to vote.
I understand wanting to put Barber on since it's the 1st year & supposed to be unbelieveable, but that should be adjusted going forward.
Should be a interesting year to say the least.
Thanks, Eric...
On the CCS mailer, they had RA and MAM listed twice...
"Voting" can be interesting...
Sometimes only the people that complain get their voice heard... The others don't notice... Seems like we saw that a few times last year.
Hey I am not any official word on this I just grabbed the schedule from CCS website only thing I have heard was incorrect on it was a Thunderhill date and that has been corrected.
But by the way there are two RA dates and two MAM dates for midwest am I missing something ???
They had RA listed as 26-26 and 27 and MAM listed as 4-5 & 6 ... I was counting lines.... still fifteen in the mailer...
Still way too many races too close together. Then I have to mix in an AHRMA race maybe too....
Ah I think I get it. those are the twin sprint weekends so in essence 15 races but 13 dates