Here you go...
http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2007/misc/07%20license%20mailer.pdf
A color chart for the acceptable shades of yellow!!! Waaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooo! :lmao:
No Gingerman...Bummer. I remember when the Mid-west was THE region for track diversity.
I won't complain though. There is plenty of that to go around. The Great Plains region looks awesome!
Quote from: 251am on November 22, 2006, 01:48:39 PM
A color chart for the acceptable shades of yellow!!! Waaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooo! :lmao:
What the hell are you wahooing for Todd? You're on teh upgrade list. :lmao: Get out the white spray paint. :biggrin:
On a side note....
WTF are they going back to Gateway for? What happened to Gingerman for MW? Nice to see HPT is now a 3 day event instead of a 1 day.
Gingerman was a money losing track. As poor as it is to return to Gateway, the turnout for gateway always seemed to be larger than Gingerman, so it made good business sense.
Probably the best thing I see is that the MW region is cut to 9 weekends from 11. 11 weekends is just too much for a lot of people to handle both physically and financially. 9 will be much better...
Quote from: Jeff on November 22, 2006, 03:06:46 PM
Gingerman was a money losing track. As poor as it is to return to Gateway, the turnout for gateway always seemed to be larger than Gingerman, so it made good business sense.
It also appears that TA will be running the Gateway Event rather than CCS....
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 22, 2006, 02:45:02 PM
On a side note....
WTF are they going back to Gateway for? What happened to Gingerman for MW? Nice to see HPT is now a 3 day event instead of a 1 day.
When you start racing again, then you can complain about Gateway! ;)
wow! am I gonna get kicked in the junk like that? LOL...
Someone buy CCS a map. Daytona still in the MidAtlantic region.I know it is a big race and has always been included in Mid-Atlantic, but it really makes it cost prohibitive to chase the series when you have to drive almost 900 miles to a race for regional points. Then add in Barber which is almost 800 miles, how can that be considered a regional series. I live in the center of what is considered the MidAtlantic US, outside Washington,DC. I am not familier with the other regions but are there any others with those kind of distances. They should call it the Eastern USA region instead of the MidAtlantic region.
Quote from: r1owner on November 22, 2006, 04:24:16 PM
When you start racing again, then you can complain about Gateway! ;)
I see someones bike chained to a corner station at BHF in the future.:biggrin:
I will be racing again. Probably 2008, but with 2 more wheels.
Shut up and race arnie... :biggrin:
You going to go?
Ray
Quote from: badmonkey on November 22, 2006, 07:49:32 PM
Shut up and race arnie... :biggrin:
You going to go?
Ray
Sean is trying to convince me to, but it is hard to justify the cost of Daytona. I can do about 4 other MidAtlantic rounds for the cost of going down there.
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 22, 2006, 02:45:02 PM
On a side note....
WTF are they going back to Gateway for? What happened to Gingerman for MW? Nice to see HPT is now a 3 day event instead of a 1 day.
I like Gateway. And HPT was three days last year...plus a Thursday practice day and a Wednesday track day.
So, it's tentative. Can we petition for change?
HPT is a GP location, at best, and from what I've heard Gateway is one big safety problem.
Didnt know last years HPT were 3 day'ers Dave. Since I wasnt racing, I was more concerned with BHF's dates so I could work.
Todd my main issue was that damn transition to get on the main straight. If that thing popped me out of my seat at teh speeds I go, I hate to see what happens when someone whos fast hits it wrong like I did. It would had been better if they just used teh banking of 3&4 instead of funneling us down to the pit in road and then back on the main straight.
No Grattan, no Gingerman, no Autobahn...
Gotta admit I'm bummed. Being from the right side of the lake those were the only tracks I could ever hope for family and friends to attend. Plus, I like BHF but there's got to be more diversity for me than going over the same piece of ground over and over and over...
Unfortunately, this will definitely cut down my participation and probably push me into retirement and track days with only occasional races.
Sorry to whine, but it is what it is....and for me it ain't good news.
Why no Autobahn? It seemed to be well attended.
Quote from: timsrc51 on November 22, 2006, 08:46:16 PM
Why no Autobahn? It seemed to be well attended.
One of two things.
Either dates havent been agreed upon yet, or Autobahn just doent want CCS.
Kinda a meaning of tentative.:biggrin: Easier to add a date to a tentative schedule than remove one. There might be some dates added. For the last 5 yrs theres always been a date in early Oct. I'd wait until the actuall schedule is announced mid dec.
Yeah I'm a little disapointed also... I'll just be racing at BHF and RA - I actually prefer Auto S and Ginger - hopefully they'll add a couple of dates. Most of the guys I got to know in the LW class got promoted to expert - Congrats to - Hawk, George, Guy, Jim, Jon Gu -- did Nick (grasshopper) get it?. Gateway and Heartland are way far from Chicago. We'll just wait and see. I'm glad they ruled out the @#$#$% BMW. Maybe sailing yachts again this summer!!
gateway isnt that far from chicago, its the same as all of the gp/ st louis area mw guys having to go to blackhawk 5 $%#@ing times a year. While gateway isnt the safest track, granted it is potentially dangerous like all tracks, and maybe a little bit more so than normal, however unlike alot of other dangerous tracks, at gateway 2 of the the 3 dangerous spots are thouroughly cover with a layer of haybails behind airfence. and if you are a good technical rider the track can be fun. not saying its for everyone, its my hometrack and i am a very technical ridre and I dont even enjoy it that much, but its not as bad as people make it out to be.
No, I feel your pain - having to come up to BHF from St. Louis does suck. I wonder where is the best location in the country for a club racer? Probably the North East. When I was living in Montreal there were only 2-3 tracks - Sanair, Shanonville and Mosport within 3-4 hrs. I think WERA may be worse for travel and then AMA is a whole different level.
I should ship my bike down to you a week b4 and fly down and you could do the same for races up here. Always got room in the garage!!
ha, ya not a bad idea, but if i let you in my garage i would have to kill you, sorry to much top secret sv stuff going on in there.
Quote from: SVR6#231 on November 22, 2006, 10:02:06 PM
I'm glad they ruled out the @#$#$% BMW.
What did you hear and where?
Scratch that - Gateway is not a problem (5 hrs from here). Heartland or Topeka are more problematic. May do Hearland instead of a track day weekend at Barber in March. Given your impressive list of sponsors, I probably cannot compete, although the real test will be at the track!
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 22, 2006, 02:45:02 PM
What the hell are you wahooing for Todd? You're on teh upgrade list. :lmao: Get out the white spray paint. :biggrin:
Got any suggestions? I was gonna go with an eggshell white?
Is that legal? :err:
Under rule changes I believe the BMW 1100 was eliminated from LW...
Dont us GM#50. Larry will say its too green. :lmao: #10 would be better.
Quote from: Hawk on November 23, 2006, 03:08:20 AM
What did you hear and where?
in the license mailer...
Lightweight SuperSport displacements
have been adjusted to read:
Twin cylinder, Air cooled, 2 Valve up to
1210cc
Twin cylinder, Air cooled, 4 Valve up to
1100cc
so from that only the K12 is restricted from LW WT SuperSport right? or is the old 1100 over the real 1100 cc limit? but still only SuperSport is changed...so still legal in SB and GT?
Quote from: SVR6#231 on November 23, 2006, 06:12:17 AM
Scratch that - Gateway is not a problem (5 hrs from here). Heartland or Topeka are more problematic. May do Hearland instead of a track day weekend at Barber in March. Given your impressive list of sponsors, I probably cannot compete, although the real test will be at the track!
ha, sponsors dont make you fast, though they can help. But anyway, I was wondering if you were picturing it right, seeing that BHF is obnly about 5 hours away from us, cause if you live in chitown and 5 hours is to long to drive to a race track your in the wrong sport :-)
I'll probably make the drive down to Heartland since it's a twin sprint weekend, Gateway won't be an issue but not sure I'll do MAM. Speaking of driving, If you sail competitively in Chicago, you end up sailing the MAC (65 hrs last time) and driving the 8 hrs back That sport is hours of quiet punctuated by seconds of sheer terror. I do prefer roadracing.. much more terrifying all the time ;)
I think that even if I was good enough to compete at the AMA level, it isn't compatible with holding down a professional job and being a family guy (3 kids).
QuoteNo Grattan, no Gingerman, no Autobahn...
Unfortunately, this will definitely cut down my participation and probably push me into retirement and track days with only occasional races.
Yah, for us Michiganders that is a bad deal.. looks like my wera decision got made for me =/
Tentative schedule is posted:
http://www.ccsracing.com/schedules/2007/schedule.html
come on man keep up, old news.
I'm disappointed with the midwest schedule. With all the race tracks we have around the area, it sucks CCS can't utilize them.
Why can't we race Grattan, Gingerman, Putnam, Autobahn? 5 Blackhawk dates???? That is retarded. :wtf: :rollseyes: Why so many???? I get tired of that track. I am looking foward to running Gateway though, never been to that track.
Maybe I'll race some WERA events this year for the hell of it to hit up the Michigan tracks and to see how the competition is.
Maybe I'll just say fuck road racing and do more hare scrambles and enduros. Sure as hell will be easier on the pocket book.
Nick we used to run 6 at BHF. First usually was the first week of april before RA. BHF is the home track for MW thats why it gets used so much. Just picture what WSMC racers and LRRS guys do. Same track all year. I dont think I ever seen Gratten on CCS MW schedule since 1999.
Up til July it looks good! Then what the F@#$?!?!?! One race each month and ALL at BHF? Did someone forgot to include a few round into the schedule teh last 3 monthes of the season?
Maybe... b/c it does say 'tentative'
sad to see Gingerman go and hopefully Autobahn gets put on
FYI I did not see any posting that a particular track was not being considered for 2007 or that it was the final schedule being relased it says tenative because some dates/venues have not been confirmed/terms settled. :banghead:
Or did someone swap a memo off my desk before I had the chance to read it? ::)
Also I am in the process of putting together some deals on motels for next year so check on the event info for some deals as we get this stuff put together. I am trying to work the hotels from a racer stand point (or at least my perspective as a racer) a motel that has a place to park rigs that is close to room, breakfast before heading to the track, proximity to track and of course $.
Damn...meatballed again for jumping the start.
less black hawk.
god i hate that track
Quote from: SVR6#231 on November 22, 2006, 11:29:19 PM
No, I feel your pain - having to come up to BHF from St. Louis does suck. I wonder where is the best location in the country for a club racer? Probably the North East.
You might be in one of the best areas. Within 300 miles, you've got, Road America, Autobahn, Blackhawk, Putnam, Grattan, Gingerman, Gateway, and other potential new sites in Frankfort and near Springfield.
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on November 24, 2006, 09:14:00 PM
FYI I did not see any posting that a particular track was not being considered for 2007 or that it was the final schedule being relased it says tenative because some dates/venues have not been confirmed/terms settled. :banghead:
Or did someone swap a memo off my desk before I had the chance to read it? ::)
Also I am in the process of putting together some deals on motels for next year so check on the event info for some deals as we get this stuff put together. I am trying to work the hotels from a racer stand point (or at least my perspective as a racer) a motel that has a place to park rigs that is close to room, breakfast before heading to the track, proximity to track and of course $.
Outstanding!! Could we please have a northern R.O.C. at Road America or Putnam?
Quote from: Super Dave on November 25, 2006, 05:03:09 PM
You might be in one of the best areas. Within 300 miles, you've got, Road America, Autobahn, Blackhawk, Putnam, Grattan, Gingerman, Gateway, and other potential new sites in Frankfort and near Springfield.
Try MidAtlantic almost 900 miles from Summit Point to Daytona. And we have to run Daytona as part of our so-called MidAtlantic region. Yes I am still btching about it.
I would have to agree with Arnie way to many of the tracks are way to far for the Mid Atlantic. Might as well be East Coast region. Oh well, geuss Ill just do some WERA stuff this year and skip some of those long haul weekends with CCS.
yea it's tough when 1st 2 races of the MA season are Daytona & Carolina...then we have Barber and Roebling all of them are like 800 to 1200 miles from me in NJ....gonna have to really think of which events to attend due to new job...vacation time will be less in 2007...
Quote from: Super Dave on November 25, 2006, 05:03:09 PM
You might be in one of the best areas. Within 300 miles, you've got, Road America, Autobahn, Blackhawk, Putnam, Grattan, Gingerman, Gateway, and other potential new sites in Frankfort and near Springfield.
All right, I'll shut up. Didn't realize I had it so good. Been refereeing AAA hockey this weekend. Team Alaska has to fly everywhere!! Just hope Erik (CCS) can get a Gingerman, 1-2 Auto and possibly a Putnam or Grattan date. With some many track around here, it would be a real pity not to see them all in one season.
Quote from: ahastings on November 25, 2006, 09:12:58 PM
Try MidAtlantic almost 900 miles from Summit Point to Daytona. And we have to run Daytona as part of our so-called MidAtlantic region. Yes I am still btching about it.
Totally agreed, Arnie. Even twenty years ago, I thought the Chicago area was a better place to race from.
Quote from: SVR6#231 on November 26, 2006, 08:09:42 AM
All right, I'll shut up. Didn't realize I had it so good. Been refereeing AAA hockey this weekend. Team Alaska has to fly everywhere!! Just hope Erik (CCS) can get a Gingerman, 1-2 Auto and possibly a Putnam or Grattan date. With some many track around here, it would be a real pity not to see them all in one season.
Travel is cheap. Add the dates you want, and the regional series becomes a lot larger and then very expensive because of racing tires, racing fuel, etc.
Putnam hasn't had a CCS date since probably 1996 or so, I think. And there's no camping.
Quote from: Super Dave on November 26, 2006, 08:43:22 AM
Travel is cheap. Add the dates you want, and the regional series becomes a lot larger and then very expensive because of racing tires, racing fuel, etc.
Putnam hasn't had a CCS date since probably 1996 or so, I think. And there's no camping.
Well yeah and that totally sucks with Putnam as that would be a great venue for sure. There is however camping nearby but I guess that would be a bit of a pain for some.
i'd love to race putnam. but they don't allow camping and ccs had a falling out with them a while back. probably no putnam until ownership changes hands. that is a fun track though and i have good times there
Quote from: Super Dave on November 26, 2006, 08:43:22 AM
Travel is cheap. Add the dates you want, and the regional series becomes a lot larger and then very expensive because of racing tires, racing fuel, etc.
Putnam hasn't had a CCS date since probably 1996 or so, I think. And there's no camping.
Dave werent they on the 1999 schedule? I swear they were. I think it was the next event after I got my license and didnt go due to just getting the license.
If it was, I didn't go. Early in the track's "career" a motorcycle racer was killed there. 1996? And Mr Diasio got really angry with CCS. When he passed away, his kids took over, and they still seem to have similar feelings.
And didn't they boot out WERA too?
Guy might have died there in 1994, now that I think of it. I raced more AMA stuff in 1993 and 1994...I raced ARHMA there in 1996 and got slammed and crashed in the last corner. The armco was moved a year or so after the guy died the one year, and I remember thinking about that as I was sliding toward the barrier.
as i understood it, the manager of putnam got really wizzed off after CCS canceled a date they had set. but the guy that does my stickers had a brother that died at a bike race at putnam (may be the same guy) but he got hit by another bike after going down on his way out of turn 10. not that either of those details matter in the least. but i would love to see the issue between the two organizations fixed and have putnam on the schedule. i'm sure it would have one hell of a turn out.
I know that CCS has asked for dates. It does appear to be something that the family has decided to do...no WERA or CCS or AHRMA.
besides, guys, really... Look at some of the other orgs or regions where they have 1 or 2 tracks... Do you want that? CCS MW is not that bad at all.
The simple reduction of 11 weekends down to 9 will help most absorb the travel costs. True, it won't help those who have tracks in their back yards which were scratched, but on the whole it will make it easier on the racer. Do the math yourself and figure it out.
A race weekend costs about $2k. $4k is a LOT of travel money. As Dave mentioned, "Travel is cheap".
Look at it in an optimistic manner...
Why doesn't CCS goto BIR?
I have never run BIR, but would hit it up if CCS when there...
Why doesn't CRA go to BHF?
i give up... why not???
Go on their web site and ask them...............
CCS did go to Brainerd in 1997. I had schools there.
CRA has kind of a lock, and most CRA riders aren't interested in travel...hence, this year, they aren't doing MAM.
Maybe cb186, CRAkitty or some other CRA peeps can chime in on that one......
It does sound like from the MNSBR forum we may be getting a few CRA moon-lighters hitting RA & BHF this year... Some are kinda pissed that they don't have MAM but I heard the turn-outs at MAM the last couple of years was really hard on them so I don't blame them.
Would like to do Brainerd again this year myself.
Point is, the tracks are there. There are orgs that run them. If you're really bummed, get another license and run a few weekends with another org at the track you love. It might do you some good!
I have read many different ideas in this thread on why certain tracks have been scrapped. Does anyone else besides me think that grids are getting smaller? Just seems like if 1/2 the pretty-boy track-day guys would get a race license and spend their time and money racing that CCS could justify more weekends and at less-known tracks (Gingerman, Autobahn, Putnam, etc.). There were a number of lightweight races in the 2nd 1/2 of this year that didnt pay any contingency due to a low number of entries.
I do ahve to say that I am also bored to death with racing BHF after the 3rd time in a season!!
Quote from: PJ721 on November 23, 2006, 09:26:57 AM
.........the K12 is restricted from LW WT SuperSport right? or is the old 1100 over the real 1100 cc limit? but still only SuperSport is changed...so still legal in SB and GT?
The K1200S is water cooled. No where close to the R1100 in weight, design or power.
The R1100S was available in the U.S. from 1999-2005 and then was replaced by the R1200S in 2006.
The R1100/1200 is air cooled and 4 valves. Besides the displacement increase to 1200cc's the frame was changed and the bike lost about 30 lbs. in stock form.
Quote from: Addicted2Danger on November 29, 2006, 01:33:56 PM
I have read many different ideas in this thread on why certain tracks have been scrapped. Does anyone else besides me think that grids are getting smaller?
Yes, grids are getting smaller for a number of reasons. The influx of track day opportunities and the incredible expense of racing are probably the largest reasons.
Quote
Just seems like if 1/2 the pretty-boy track-day guys would get a race license and spend their time and money racing that CCS could justify more weekends and at less-known tracks (Gingerman, Autobahn, Putnam, etc.). There were a number of lightweight races in the 2nd 1/2 of this year that didnt pay any contingency due to a low number of entries.
Scaling back the number of weekends or keeping the region more concentrated will help that to a large extent. People will have more money to race with due to fewer weekends.
Quote
I do ahve to say that I am also bored to death with racing BHF after the 3rd time in a season!!
Then you've reached your personal limit for ability at that track... That's sad really. Raise the bar constantly, reach it and raise it again. When you continually improve you can reduce your boredom.
I know this may sound far fetched, but... NESBA allows 2 free sessions for folks that have never done a track day. That's how I got started with getting on the track. What are the far-fetched chances of setting up one race where folks could show up, practice, and run their own race for next to nothing. It would cut into some other people's time but if done right could be safe and let people get that feeling that comes from racing rather than just doing a track day.
It would be tough and take some serious planning, but maybe at one race per year do something like that. It would definitely help get a few more folks into the sport.
Quote from: Court Jester on November 29, 2006, 03:31:13 PM
I know this may sound far fetched, but... NESBA allows 2 free sessions for folks that have never done a track day. That's how I got started with getting on the track. What are the far-fetched chances of setting up one race where folks could show up, practice, and run their own race for next to nothing. It would cut into some other people's time but if done right could be safe and let people get that feeling that comes from racing rather than just doing a track day.
It would be tough and take some serious planning, but maybe at one race per year do something like that. It would definitely help get a few more folks into the sport.
Well, I had to read that twice, because I thought I had seen both "free" and "race" in the same sentence!
LOL!
But anyway...yeah right, free racing? TA had some free racing at their last day of the year, and people still didn't hit it up...Regardless of wether or not you have to pay the entry fee...That is the cheapest part of this sport IMO...
If you want to make racing less expensive find a way so that Tires were not $300 a pop...Or at least make em' so they last more than 3-4 races...Most people can buy 4 tires for their car for $300 and go 40,000 miles on em'...
20-30 Laps for $300??? That is what pushes people away from this sport IMO...Even more so than Travel...
QuoteTA had some free racing at their last day of the year, and people still didn't hit it up...
Well to be fair the numbers for qualifying where pretty darn good for the shootout races... it was the rain that kept the actual race numbers down.
Not many people interested in racing in the rain if there is nothing invested in it... myself included, assuming that ol' buddy Dean would have let me race after crashing in Qualifying :banghead:
GP schedule works perfect for me. Just the right number of events combined with ASRA, back to GIR for a cheap (and hopefully contingency winning) weekend... no worries here!
Quote from: Court Jester on November 29, 2006, 03:31:13 PMWhat are the far-fetched chances of setting up one race where folks could show up, practice, and run their own race for next to nothing. It would cut into some other people's time but if done right could be safe and let people get that feeling that comes from racing rather than just doing a track day.
The risk involved from a liability stand point would be huge. I think that's a gigantic period for that.
First races for those not initiated are controlled sensory overload. Sometimes mock riders' school races are fun to watch for that.
Numbers of racers on the grid goes up and down in cycles.
twenty years ago, I bought my GSXR750 at retail, minus a Suzuki end of season rebate for $3900. Race tires were $180. First race was $30, second $20, everyone after was $10.
Then the lawyers took over a bit more, and track days for cars and bikes drove up the prices for track rentals through increased demand.
Simply put, racing isn't inexpensive, and it probably shouldn't be. Something less expensive is a track day. Tires can live for a long time when they don't have to perform at a higher limit, and there's no need for a new bike for contingency or for the personal feeling that a new bike will make one more competitive.
It is nice that Dean will let you buy a race license per event. I was looking at doing some WERA but after everything I would have to buy or rent I gave up on that idea.
Quote from: Super Dave on November 29, 2006, 06:58:23 PM
Numbers of racers on the grid goes up and down in cycles.
Then the lawyers took over a bit more, and track days for cars and bikes drove up the prices for track rentals through increased demand.
Simply put, racing isn't inexpensive, and it probably shouldn't be. Something less expensive is a track day. Tires can live for a long time when they don't have to perform at a higher limit, and there's no need for a new bike for contingency or for the personal feeling that a new bike will make one more competitive.
The reason Racing is so expensive is not becuase of CCS IMO...Or the lawyers...
Entry Fees are the cheapest part of this sport...
$325 for a set of tires is plain rip off...
There is so much VAR in this business, between Tires, $12+ for a gallon of Gas, $1K for exhaust systems that do not cost $200 to make, $400 rearsets here and there...Everyone fees it is necessary to mark everything up 150%...
I see the LP Dealer book, and I wasn't born yesterday...The Vendors of this sport is what kills the sport, not CCS or WERA or CRA...
The RACING part is the cheap part...
Sure, Lawyers may have made Entry Fees go up, but I can race a Good amount of races in one weekend, and still not spend as much on all those entry fees as one set of tires...
This whole business is based on Maximum Price for the smallest quantinty...That is why this business suffers on all fronts...
Just all IMO's...
Quote from: extrakt0r on November 29, 2006, 08:17:54 PM
I see the LP Dealer book, and I wasn't born yesterday...The Vendors of this sport is what kills the sport, not CCS or WERA or CRA...
I think you are confused on vendors. Maybe manufactures, but not vendors. If you look at the LP catalog the average markup is only about 30% to full retail and that is about average. Most racers never want to pay full retail.
Quote from: extrakt0r on November 29, 2006, 08:17:54 PM
The reason Racing is so expensive is not becuase of CCS IMO...Or the lawyers...
Entry Fees are the cheapest part of this sport...
$325 for a set of tires is plain rip off...
There is so much VAR in this business, between Tires, $12+ for a gallon of Gas, $1K for exhaust systems that do not cost $200 to make, $400 rearsets here and there...Everyone fees it is necessary to mark everything up 150%...
I see the LP Dealer book, and I wasn't born yesterday...The Vendors of this sport is what kills the sport, not CCS or WERA or CRA...
The RACING part is the cheap part...
Sure, Lawyers may have made Entry Fees go up, but I can race a Good amount of races in one weekend, and still not spend as much on all those entry fees as one set of tires...
This whole business is based on Maximum Price for the smallest quantinty...That is why this business suffers on all fronts...
Just all IMO's...
i agree 100%
Quote from: extrakt0r on November 29, 2006, 08:17:54 PM
The reason Racing is so expensive is not becuase of CCS IMO...Or the lawyers...
Entry Fees are the cheapest part of this sport...
$325 for a set of tires is plain rip off...
There is so much VAR in this business, between Tires, $12+ for a gallon of Gas, $1K for exhaust systems that do not cost $200 to make, $400 rearsets here and there...Everyone fees it is necessary to mark everything up 150%...
I see the LP Dealer book, and I wasn't born yesterday...The Vendors of this sport is what kills the sport, not CCS or WERA or CRA...
The RACING part is the cheap part...
Sure, Lawyers may have made Entry Fees go up, but I can race a Good amount of races in one weekend, and still not spend as much on all those entry fees as one set of tires...
This whole business is based on Maximum Price for the smallest quantinty...That is why this business suffers on all fronts...
Just all IMO's...
The answer there is a spec series. To be cheap on tires it would have to be a lightweight bike at most and the rules would have to be STOCK PERIOD. If you are looking for a cheap class then the $1000 shock and $250 rearsets don't fit. Some of you will absolutely hate it but that is why you have 19 other classes to run. With a spec series you could attract the track riders with small budgets that aren't sure they want to go 160 MPH....yet :biggrin:
I raced a spec class. Certain parts were restricted. So, you had to use OEM...and their cost was above what the aftermarket had to offer. Cheating occured too, at a high cost, but it was virtually impossible to police.
If your not "designed" as the appropriate rider for the bike, you're at a disadvanage.
And you can also eliminate contingency sponsorship dollars/certificates, in addition to most sponsorships.
WSB has spec tires. Teams used to be able to set up sponsorships. Now everyone pays, increasing team costs.
Did it change the results? Bayliss was still a winner.
Quote from: extrakt0r on November 29, 2006, 08:17:54 PM
The reason Racing is so expensive is not becuase of CCS IMO...Or the lawyers...
Entry Fees are the cheapest part of this sport...
$325 for a set of tires is plain rip off...
There is so much VAR in this business, between Tires, $12+ for a gallon of Gas, $1K for exhaust systems that do not cost $200 to make, $400 rearsets here and there...Everyone fees it is necessary to mark everything up 150%...
I see the LP Dealer book, and I wasn't born yesterday...The Vendors of this sport is what kills the sport, not CCS or WERA or CRA...
The RACING part is the cheap part...
Sure, Lawyers may have made Entry Fees go up, but I can race a Good amount of races in one weekend, and still not spend as much on all those entry fees as one set of tires...
This whole business is based on Maximum Price for the smallest quantinty...That is why this business suffers on all fronts...
Just all IMO's...
Cost of insurance for CCS at Daytona is $42k plus.
The last time I paid for daily insurance for my school, it had almost doubled from what it was a a few years prior.
Mark up? Well, that's capitalism, and it is a good thing.
$325 for a set of tires? In Europe the tires that are pretty much the same, there are usually variations in compound and construction for different regions, cost around $500. Is that a rip off? I raced on the tires of seven, fifteen, and twenty years ago...these are better and more versitile; a real value for the cost.
As for any comparison to four car tires...doesn't apply as cars have completely different loads. And give me a set of high performance tires on a race track on my car...they aren't going to last long either.
Quote from: Jeff on November 28, 2006, 08:54:38 AM
Point is, the tracks are there. There are orgs that run them. If you're really bummed, get another license and run a few weekends with another org at the track you love. It might do you some good!
+1 Does anyone race @ Putnam or is it just a trackday venue now?
Todd, check with Putnam and see what they have on the schedule for 07.
Guys, look as mentioned, racing is not cheap. Can it be cheap? Absolutely. However, the amount which you CAN spend is virtually unlimited. I know guys who run an entire season for a couple thousand bucks. They run take-offs, pump gas, stock everything and only a couple races. They aren't winning anything, but they're having fun and being happy.
If WINNING and constantly improving is your "fun and happy", it costs money. Period...
Put it another way...
There are people who are happy enough on life.
There are others who are made happy through a few drinks every now and again
There are others who are made happy through a 12pk a night
There are yet others who put $1k up their nose each day and still aren't happy
It's all in who you are and your intended goals. And for reference, there is a SHITLOAD of support available for the 'average guy'. You just need to be more competitive in marketing yourself than the others are...
Racing costs money. Racing itself, of ANY nature is not cheap. It is an elite sport. Think of it as owning your own personal football team. Each person has their own team which they must run and support. It's expensive! There's no way around it.
Quote from: RCR_531 on November 29, 2006, 07:22:51 PM
It is nice that Dean will let you buy a race license per event. I was looking at doing some WERA but after everything I would have to buy or rent I gave up on that idea.
FYI the one event license is available at all tracks other than Daytona.
I have switched to racing a 125.
Why? It is the most fun I have had racing. It is the cheapest bike I have ever raced. Cheaper than (a properly cared for) SV.
Quote from: Jeff on November 30, 2006, 08:52:04 AM
Guys, look as mentioned, racing is not cheap. Can it be cheap? Absolutely. However, the amount which you CAN spend is virtually unlimited. I know guys who run an entire season for a couple thousand bucks. They run take-offs, pump gas, stock everything and only a couple races. They aren't winning anything, but they're having fun and being happy.
+1. I think 03 was my "biggest outlay of cash" racing in CCS. Maybe $4000 for the year. Old reliable F2. Tires lasted 3 weekends. Ran on 93octane pump gas. 3 races a weekend (t-bike, hwss, gtu or mwss). Still had fun especially playing in hwss with Kimmie and the TLR.
Quote from: tzracer on November 30, 2006, 12:27:10 PM
I have switched to racing a 125.
Why? It is the most fun I have had racing. It is the cheapest bike I have ever raced. Cheaper than (a properly cared for) SV.
Brian,
You forgot the biggest plus for a 125. It's easy to bump start..... especially when you're in kind of a hurry!! :kicknuts:
man, i would love to have a 125 or a 250 but i know nothing about them at all. all the 250's i've seen for sale have been pretty darned pricey too.
Quote from: Jeff on November 30, 2006, 08:52:04 AM
Todd, check with Putnam and see what they have on the schedule for 07.
Guys, look as mentioned, racing is not cheap. Can it be cheap? Absolutely. has their own team which they must run and support. It's expensive! There's no way around it.
Alright. Thanks Dad.
So, anybody know if there's racing at Putnam?
:biggrin:
Quote from: Burt Munro on November 30, 2006, 03:13:44 PM
Brian,
You forgot the biggest plus for a 125. It's easy to bump start..... especially when you're in kind of a hurry!! :kicknuts:
:ass:
Quote from: Court Jester on November 30, 2006, 06:27:44 PM
man, i would love to have a 125 or a 250 but i know nothing about them at all. all the 250's i've seen for sale have been pretty darned pricey too.
125s are cheap to run, a 250 costs about 3 times as much as a 125. They are not particularly cheap to run. Probably more in line with a front running 600. New 250s run about $21,000, but they do come with a decent amount of spares.
I like the idea of offering new racers or first timers to CCS something to get them out to the race track, an incentive.
Idea:
The racer/rider/newbie takes Learning Curves (Pays full price) and upon passing the class that person is rewarded one free race entry.
BOOM!!!
Man am I genius!
The track day only pretty boy rider crowd will pounce on that shit!
It's like giving them a free toke off the crack pipe. HOOKED!
Quote from: grasshopper on December 06, 2006, 11:03:33 AM
I like the idea of offering new racers or first timers to CCS something to get them out to the race track, an insentive.
Idea:
The racer/rider/newbie takes Learning Curves (Pays full price) and upon passing the class that person is rewarded one free race entry.
BOOM!!!
Man am I genius!
The track day only pretty boy rider crowd will pounce on that shit!
It's like giving them a free toke off the crack pipe. HOOKED!
i love the wording. fitting too.
251ex,
Fasttrax will race at the end of March.
http://www.fastone.com/
http://www.putnampark.com
Jerod Kizer
Flying Squirrel Racing
Dangggg! Thanks Jerod! They run their own series?!
Do you bring the flying squirrel to the track?
Fasttrax does.
i'll be at deal's gap that week, but depending on the long term weather out look i may postpone the trip to race at putnam.
thanks for posting that
So is it still tentative in the Midwest or is there no longer a Gingerman or Autobahn date???? :(
I'd say there are none. You never know though. But I don't even think WERA scheduled dates at ACC.
Quote from: Super Dave on January 15, 2007, 12:09:05 PM
I'd say there are none. You never know though. But I don't even think WERA scheduled dates at ACC.
Yeah that sucks for sure. Although at least WERA has a Gingerman date.
at what point will it no longer be a *Tentative* schedule?
November 2007
:spank:
Seriously, it is very solid right now. Changes would be a little dramatic and uncommon at this point.
cool cool. thanks
so when's the midwest banquet?
That's been what I've been wondering...
We could just all show up at Simon's bash in Chicago on the 3rd.
who's simon? and where's it at?
Expert 690 Simon K
http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,18848.0.html