CCS / ASRA Racing Forum

All the other stuff => Shooting the bull => Topic started by: tshort on November 08, 2006, 05:31:59 pm

Title: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 08, 2006, 05:31:59 pm
 :preachon:

Guess which one I voted for?  :thumb: :cheers:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 08, 2006, 05:43:06 pm
Well if you are a firearms enthusiast its really disturbing on who the new house speaker is. They may try to have another useless AWB and that may be more denigrateed up than the first one was.

And WI gets another 4 yrs of Comrade Doyle and his corrupt goons. SO criminals are safe in WI from possible armed victims for another 4 yrs.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: 251am on November 08, 2006, 05:47:16 pm
And WI gets another 4 yrs of Comrade Doyle and his corrupt goons. SO criminals are safe in WI from possible armed victims for another 4 yrs.

 Nothing to keep you from carryin Rob!!
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 08, 2006, 06:09:17 pm
Nothing to keep you from carryin Rob!!

CCW is illegal in WI (one of 2 states now that doesnt allow it at all (IL being the other)). All people want is the ability to be on a level playing field with a criminal if they are attacked by a criminal. Not to mention how denigrateed up WI is now since Comrade Doyle took over.


BTW did ya see Janesvilles own version of a Reno 911 episode in last thursdays Gazette? :lmao: :lmao: I feel sorry for the GOOD cops in the JPD having to deal with this kind of garbage.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 08, 2006, 06:17:30 pm
CCW is illegal in WI (one of 2 states now that doesnt allow it at all (IL being the other)). All people want is the ability to be on a level playing field with a criminal if they are attacked by a criminal.

If you believe that packing your own heat is an effective way of protecting yourself from criminal assualt, you have obviously been watching too many TV shows/movies, and have not been assaulted yourself.  I've had two friends who were both assaulted in the last two years (in Milwaukee), one by a guy with a gun, and the other by three guys, no gun that he could see. 

In neither case, according to the victims, would a weapon have been of use to them.  Even if they had one on them, they would not have had a chance to pull it.  And had they tried, they would likely now be dead.  Just a reality check.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tstruyk on November 08, 2006, 06:18:50 pm
somewhat relieved that the 'pub' bashin will ease off... it gets old.

Dems finally getting their wish... more power.  Here's your chance, show us how you can change the world!!!   :jerkoff:

I just wish they had a different platform than "not what the republicans have done"...
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 08, 2006, 06:38:53 pm
If you believe that packing your own heat is an effective way of protecting yourself from criminal assualt, you have obviously been watching too many TV shows/movies, and have not been assaulted yourself.  I've had two friends who were both assaulted in the last two years (in Milwaukee), one by a guy with a gun, and the other by three guys, no gun that he could see. 

In neither case, according to the victims, would a weapon have been of use to them.  Even if they had one on them, they would not have had a chance to pull it.  And had they tried, they would likely now be dead.  Just a reality check.

Yeah I have been assaulted and no I didnt need a weapon either. Dumb ass punk ended up in an arm barred and my other hand on his throat. Thats was the second time. First time was 2 14 yr old kids who tried to rob me with a pocket knife. One ended up with his jaw broke and the other one I snapped his arm in the trucks door. So you're "never been assaulted" thing holds no water, and your tv and movie comment is a joke.

BTW I have used a firearm to defend myself and family. Guy was dumb enough to take a step towards someone pointing a .30-06 at him.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 08, 2006, 07:25:46 pm
I don't want to get in a flame war on this...but did it occur to you that, given what you did to two kids who came at you with a pocket knife, that if you'd had a gun one or both would be dead or possibly injured for life, and you'd be in prison for assault? (self defense probably wouldn't have worked, given that assault with a pocket knife would be difficult to construe as life threatening).

Point is:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 08, 2006, 08:08:10 pm
Couldnt have a firearm with me when the two kids tried to rob me. I was in a company vehicle in IL. Kid wasnt in a position to even use the knife (btw a pocket knife can do serious damage). I just got out of the Sonoma we had and the kid (on teh other side of teh door put the knife through the open window at me. Grabbed his arm, yanked him close to the door and slammed it on his arm (which broke his arm). Other kid ran at me and I just popped him in the jaw. He went down and out. When the cop showed (witnesses called the police) I was on the first kids back with his other arm chickened winged. I spent the next HOUR cuffed in the squad and it too his supervisor to get me out of the car (everyone was telling the arresting officer I was the victim. He wouldnt listen at all. Rookie). PRetty much happened to fast to really think. Just went into automatic.

I have an ability to literally turn vicious on someone when absolutely needed. Lost of practice in school always being the 'new kid'. Got to know most principals and VP's quite well. :biggrin: Dropped a varsity football senior as a sophmore with 2 shots (first to the nads, 2nd to the side of his head with the side of my cowboy boot. Mom taught me theres no such thing as a fair fight. Anything goes), in junior high I went off on a kid (wrong kid) after I had a chair pulled out from under me in the cafeteria and hit my head on teh table behind me. Thats about all I remember. VP told me it took all teh teachers in teh social study pod (2 of which were football coaches) to get me off of him and they still had trouble holding a 120lb kid back. Also when I tried to punch him, he ducked, I hit the locker behind him and put a HUGE dent in it near teh hinge. They had to show me it since I pretty much lost it. One coach (300lb 6'3" teacher who was my social studies teacher and I actually tossed him from what I was told) said he never seen anyone's eyes glazed like that. Throughout the rest of 8th and 9th grade, no one every teased me again until HS. School counsellor had a field day with me. The foot ball player incedent stopped it there.

COuple months in TKD as a kid and 4 yrs kyukido in the late 90's/early 2000 (probably be going for 3rd dan if my knee didnt cause me problems in mid 2000). Didnt take either for defense, just TKD for rehab after I was cleared by my doctor from my knee problems at 8yrs old and kyukido to use as exercise to try to drop some weight.

BTW I aint being testy with you, just a bit miffed right now that my internet connection is dropping every 3-10 minutes and charter says theres nothing wrong. Damn thing just reset itself when I hit reply. :banghead:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: EX#996 on November 08, 2006, 08:25:19 pm

Dems finally getting their wish... more power.  Here's your chance, show us how you can change the world!!!   :jerkoff:


+1

Although I don't want to be provided, or be forced to provide, a free handout.  If you have the ability, work for a damn living.  Allow the law abiding citizens to keep thier guns (yes, it has protected our property and put food on our table)....

Oh nevermind, I could keep going, but I don't have the time or the energy to get into a debate.

Dawn
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Super Dave on November 08, 2006, 08:27:50 pm
Self defense is a right for an individual. 

Tom, as for your friends, were there police or others available to help?

Police are not everywhere.  Most police work is conducted after the crime, not during. 
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 08, 2006, 11:08:11 pm
Self defense is a right for an individual. 

Tom, as for your friends, were there police or others available to help?

Police are not everywhere.  Most police work is conducted after the crime, not during. 

No, the police weren't there to help, nor were there others to help out - crims, cowards that they are, tend to strike when their target is vulnerable, alone, and off-guard.  One friend was walking alone around the block he lives on, around 7pm in the summer time.  Three guys coming the other way walk past him on the side walk, then turn around and drop him with a length of pipe.  He's down, they start kicking him, punching him, telling him to give up his wallet.  He's stunned, doesn't know what to do - other than just toss up his wallet, which is nearly empty (dude doesn't have much money) and then they run out into the street where a van has pulled up, side door open. They jump in, and they're gone. 

Now you tell me what kind of kung fu, gun-totin', mo-fo you are who is going to do a damn thing about that.  This is the city, homey.  Ain't no remote, out in the back of beyond, deer hunting preserve.  Streets are tough.  You think you're smart, and try to fight back, and you might end up in a world of hurt worse than if you just give in. 
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: 251am on November 09, 2006, 06:25:20 am
Me baiting Rob to carry was a joke, only a joke. How people want to defend or not defend themselves is in the rules and regs section... :thumb:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Super Dave on November 09, 2006, 08:07:38 am
Now you tell me what kind of kung fu, gun-totin', mo-fo you are who is going to do a damn thing about that.  This is the city, homey.  Ain't no remote, out in the back of beyond, deer hunting preserve.  Streets are tough.  You think you're smart, and try to fight back, and you might end up in a world of hurt worse than if you just give in. 

Streets are tough, but when thing that like happen out in the deer preserve...

Help is a long, long, long, long way away.

Thankfully, you can have firearms near by. 

There are those in the city that conceal and carry firearms illegally.  Often, those people are the people that you say make the streets so "tough". 

Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Court Jester on November 09, 2006, 08:15:35 am
doesn't matter much either way really. you're not voting for anything/anyone who's all around better, just picking the lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Super Dave on November 09, 2006, 08:21:30 am
I don't personally agree with that.

Some of the Republicans that lost did so because they didn't espouse the conservative ideas that they claimed they would.  So, they paid for their actions. 
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 09, 2006, 10:23:56 am
Streets are tough, but when thing that like happen out in the deer preserve...
Help is a long, long, long, long way away.
Thankfully, you can have firearms near by. 

Yes, thankfully they you can.   :rollseyes:      I'm sure that's why everyone who lives out in the sticks is armed to the teeth, because they fear for their lives everyday.  Why? Because they know everyone else is armed to the teeth. :ahhh:    And here I thought it was mainly because people just liked to go hunting (which I think is great if you live out of the city - just not very practical and 20th & North, downtown).



There are those in the city that conceal and carry firearms illegally.  Often, those people are the people that you say make the streets so "tough". 

So you're implying that by making concealed carry legal it would enable the victims to also carry, so they could defend themselves against the thugs who are sometimes armed?  Or by making concealed carry, it would make what the thugs are doing legal, and so a little less tough?? :ahhh:
Dave:  read the last post about my buddy who was jumped.  :spank:   And quit watching all those Charles Bronson movies.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 09, 2006, 04:43:33 pm
and it just keeps getting better...

This just in: "Senator George Allen of Virginia conceded today to Jim Webb, ending the last undecided Senate contest and giving communists control of the full Congress for the first time in a dozen years. "  New York Times, Nov 11, 2006. Full story: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/09/us/politics/10virginiacnd.html?hp&ex=1163134800&en=39154caed4de2d42&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: JBraun on November 09, 2006, 05:28:51 pm
and it just keeps getting better...

This just in: "Senator George Allen of Virginia conceded today to Jim Webb, ending the last undecided Senate contest and giving communists control of the full Congress for the first time in a dozen years. "  New York Times, Nov 11, 2006. Full story: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/09/us/politics/10virginiacnd.html?hp&ex=1163134800&en=39154caed4de2d42&ei=5094&partner=homepage


Now should we talk religion? Ford vs Chevy? Packers vs Bears?
I thought this was a racing website. It's hazardous to pound ones chest in a public forum with regard to political views. Believe it or not, everyone doesn't share your opinion, and some might feel rather strongly about it.
I'm sure somewhere there's a forum for communists where you can spout off and everyone will nod in approval, anywhere else you're just picking fights.
Where's that "arguing on the internet" picture? It seems appropriate here....
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Super Dave on November 09, 2006, 08:00:27 pm
Never show up at a gun fight with a knife.

As for the communists...

Lots of moderates.  Lots of communists running on conservative platforms.  Will make things interesting.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Court Jester on November 10, 2006, 08:25:00 am
gotta vote republican. they's full out pimps. gotsta respect.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/courtjesterracing/pimp20daddy201.jpg)
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Super Dave on November 10, 2006, 08:34:59 am
I would have been happier if the Rebublicans acted like fiscal concervatives.  They didn't, so some of them got what they deserved...voted out.

communistic whinning is unbelieveable.  I have yet to hear of any solutions that they claim they have other than not being Republicans. 
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: 251am on November 10, 2006, 09:56:21 am
I would have been happier if the Rebublicans acted like fiscal concervatives.  They didn't, so some of them got what they deserved...voted out.

communistic whinning is unbelieveable.  I have yet to hear of any solutions that they claim they have other than not being Republicans. 

  Yup, these guys are just a couple of whining Dems!? LOL!

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 10, 2006, 10:15:42 am
communistic whinning is unbelieveable.  I have yet to hear of any solutions that they claim they have other than not being Republicans. 

Gee - that's a thought.  You still haven't responded to my last post in which I tried to redirect your attention to the actual issue we were discussing.  I realize many Conservatives don't like being cornered, especially in a battle of the wits.  Dunno - is that because they so often show up unarmed (except for their .45)?  Anywhooo....Conservativ e carping about communistic whining is really sorta tired, isn't it?    8)

PS - am251 - nice one - the rightwing AM radio propaganda machine will likely try to discredit this as some sort of communist campaign trick; or try to impugn the guy based on his religious choice, sexual orientation, ethnic heritage, or any of the other things that an employer would be taken to court about...  ::)
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Super Dave on November 10, 2006, 05:39:30 pm
So you're implying that by making concealed carry legal it would enable the victims to also carry, so they could defend themselves against the thugs who are sometimes armed?  Or by making concealed carry, it would make what the thugs are doing legal, and so a little less tough?? :ahhh:
Dave:  read the last post about my buddy who was jumped.  :spank:   And quit watching all those Charles Bronson movies.
Ah, good way to start...make yourself big by implying something about a movie...

Would a CCW law allow individuals to defend themselves.  Yes.

As for thugs...

Well, what are you implying? 

That thugs could get CCW permits?  I'm sure some could. 

Would a CCW law discourage a thug from carrying a concealed weapon because he doesn't have a permit?  I'd bet not.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 10, 2006, 06:44:43 pm
?
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Super Dave on November 10, 2006, 06:56:02 pm
(http://www.worldstump.com/clipart/stump.jpg)
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: 251am on November 11, 2006, 10:34:53 am
Ah, good way to start...make yourself big by implying something about a movie...

    ?   +1

Nice stump though. Is that the stump in Eagle you shout your platform from, or are you calling out Stumpy?!



 :preachon:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Super Dave on November 11, 2006, 10:41:38 am
No reply from the communistic guy...stumped.

I'm not a Republican, but I'm still waiting for a communistic alternative other than just not being a Republican.

Ball's in their court.  And some of the individuals that won seats did so on conservative platforms.  Pilosi certainly isn't a conservative, and I think the lack of cheers from many of those on the communistic side has been because of their recognition that there were a lot of individuals voted in, in very tight races, that ran on a moderate platform.

The Republicans in name only got what they needed.  A kick in the pants.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 11, 2006, 11:22:07 am
No reply from the communistic guy...stumped.


Are you familiar with a concept from the field of psychology called "projection"? 

In any case...the "?" was my utter bewilderment at the randomness of your post preceding it.  I couldn't make any sense of it at all.  So, yes, I guess I was stumped.  But it wasn't for a lack of something to add to the conversation - it was for a lack of comprehending what it was you were trying to add.


"I'm not a Republican, but I'm still waiting for a communistic alternative other than just not being a Republican." :err:   :jerkoff:   WTF?  What's that supposed to mean?

  You sound as if you are trying to spin everything you've said so as not to reveal anything about what you really believe (you have not, imho, been successful on that); and the whole thing smacks of one of the things the Dems dislike about the Reps - their weasely approach to spinning issues and words in the name of "truthiness", and using words to make a point in a way that they can change later on if the political winds blow in a different direction.  This kind of stuff lacks integrity, it lacks political spine, and it does not compel.

(I will say this, tho - there are those on the right who aren't shy about their opinions, especially when it comes to guns, gays, and religion - I don't agree with the positions, but at least I know where they stand).
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Super Dave on November 11, 2006, 01:38:54 pm
I'm not sure how I can make you understand...LOL!

I'm not a Republican, so I don't have a Republican axe to grind.

I've listened to the communists.  The only thing that I've heard them say is that they aren't Republicans.  "Time for a change!"  Blah, blah, blah.

Time for a change it no plan, no idea, no vision.  I will say that I think there were Republicans that lost sight of the goals that they were put into office to accomplish.  As a result, they are out.

communists rule?  As a party, sure, they have some small opportunity to make policy, etc.  Pilosi is so far out in left field.  There are communists that were elected that are not so far left.  They ran on conservative platforms.  That's not really the ideology that Pilosi and the Deaniac communists have been forwarding. 

So, what's their plan, Tom?



Back to your CCW...

Do you think that citizens of the United State should be allowed to protect themselves with deadly force?  Protect property that way?  Should citizens be allowed to have firearms?

Those are some easy pop ups that you can answer based on your opinion.

I asked questions a couple posts back, but you have only decided to spin back on me.  So, add to the conversation you started.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: 251am on November 11, 2006, 05:45:02 pm
I'm not sure how I can make you understand...LOL!

I'm not a Republican, so I don't have a Republican axe to grind.


 Wait a minute here. I've seen you improperly liken communists to being Communist. No, that in itself does not make you a Republican, but a Dem. basher, certainly. I guess in the big picture of mid-terms '06 NOT being with the GOP was all it took. The country voted in, in Dave's estimation, a communist's party that has offered nothing!? LOL!!

  Politics schmolitics...   :cheers:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: lilroy on November 11, 2006, 09:09:58 pm
Quick question from an uninformed guy.

Is it legal to carry an unconcealed hand gun in Wisconsin f you own it legally?
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: EX#996 on November 11, 2006, 10:51:15 pm
Quick question from an uninformed guy.

Is it legal to carry an unconcealed hand gun in Wisconsin f you own it legally?

Yes.  However you cannot take it near churches, bars, or schools....  With that being said, a police officer would still more in likely charge you with disorderly conduct or something else if you do such a thing.

Dawn
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: lilroy on November 11, 2006, 11:20:26 pm
Yes.  However you cannot take it near churches, bars, or schools....  With that being said, a police officer would still more in likely charge you with disorderly conduct or something else if you do such a thing.

Dawn

I'm not normally one to get involved in a political discussion over the internet, but I've been thinking about something as of late.  If it is legal to carry a hand gun in an unconcealled manner then why would someone who is supportive of a concealled carry law not be carrying their handgun already?  And wouldn't the sight of the handgun deter an attack better then a concealled weapon?  That said, what is stopping supporters of this law from protecting themselves in the meantime?

BTW concealled carry legislation, if passed, would not have allowed for someone to bring their gun into a bar, church, school, etc.

Believe it or not I am a strong supporter of our right to bear arms and never want to see any additional guns laws enacted.  In fact it wouldn't bother me if Wisconsin passed a concealled carry law.  It simply seems a bit silly given that it is already legal to carry a hand gun on the street.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 12, 2006, 11:34:44 am
So, what's their plan, Tom?

Well, the fact that just by virtue of the outcome the GOP dumped Rummy on the first day of the new order was great start.  WMD my ass...

But it's a good question, SD, and one that the Dems have not been very good at answering in the past.  In the first instance, I think what you're going to see is a move back to the political center as far as Congress and lawmaking goes.  We've had six years of increasingly partisan lawmaking that has focused on differences that have created great divisions in this country.  When the Christian Right figured out that they had a lot in common with the neocons it helped propel this divisiveness.  I hope that with the new Congress some of this imbalance will be corrected - get the focus off of sectarian- and partisan-driven politics. 

I'd look for driving some policy around force-reductions in Iraq - starting the correction of what the Shrub so self-righteously (and so incorrectly) started.

I'd look for attempts at pulling back on the so-called "tax reductions" that have been enacted.  What most of the people who voted for these don't understand, is those reductions don't put very much back in their pockets - it's mostly helping out 0.1% of the wealthiest segment of the population. 

Hopefully some progress on redressing the GOP's egregious retrograde motion on environmental policy will happen.  It's becoming pretty clear that global warming is real, and carbon emissions are responsible.  Why the inactivity around addressing it more directly?  Oil interests, maybe? Dunno. Whatever.  You can be sure the Dems will either initiate or take advantage of any opportunities to return some sense to the laws and spending around this.

Immigration - bipartisan movement on this now more likely.  The Dems will actually listen to the other side, and work on coming up with a middle ground that works for both.  (Unlike the partisan political machine that was in place until now).

Those are just a few things to look at.  And I'm not very well-versed on the details of it all.  For a more thoughtful, intelligent discussion of this issue, check out this article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6464897

And the best part of the new Congress?  It bodes well for a Dem President in '08 (as long as Hillary isn't the candidate  :rollseyes: ).

Back to your CCW...
Do you think that citizens of the United State should be allowed to protect themselves with deadly force?  Protect property that way?  Should citizens be allowed to have firearms?

Have firearms?  Sure.  As a kid I had a Winchester .30-.30 Mod 94.  Classic.  Wish I still had it. Went deer hunting a couple times with it - didn't even see anything close enough to get a shot off.  Also went bow hunting - much better sport, IMHO.  Shotguns? Sure, why not? Trap/skeet is a blast (no pun) Bird hunting is quite challenging, too, and puts food on the table. 

And if I had one of these guns in my house, and some yahoo decided to try to break in, after I called 911 to summon the police, I might - *might* - consider bringing it to bear on the situation.  Hard to say, really, what one would do in a situation like that, until it actually occurs. 

So, yes, I think it's fine for people to have firearms - long arms, that is, and use them in their homes if the need arises (altho I'd like to see the stats on how effective homeowners are at using weapons to defend their property, vs. getting themselves or others killed or hurt). 

I think handguns for the general population are a ludicrous "right" - and I don't think there is *any* justification for having them at all.  As for CCW, ditto.  Ludicrous.  As per all the other posts I've already written.  So if the deer-hunters could just agree that hunting with a .45, while perfectly reasonable as an argument, is not really worth protecting as a right, as long as the ability to have and use longarms is kept in tact, I think we'd be fine.  Pretty hard to conceal a .30-06 under a running suit in the summer time.  :thumb:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Fast4fun on November 13, 2006, 11:17:58 pm
 
Apparently, living in the "sticks" is much more dangerous than living in the City. I've lived in and around chicago for my entire life without a single incident. I've never feared a bad neighborhood, worked in all the wrong places on the west side and found myself wandering drunk through Cabrini Green one night without a single confrontation. Once, I was jumped in Iowa City by some townies though and survived with only a black eye. Lately, I've been considering moving to a more rural location but I fear that the schools will be worse than the suburbs here, the minds will expand only to the edge of town, and now that I'll be shot by rural "thugs." What's wrong with this view? I have always felt safe in the larger cities of america.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: laohu69 on November 14, 2006, 09:30:09 am


Have firearms?  Sure.  As a kid I had a Winchester .30-.30 Mod 94.  Classic.  Wish I still had it. Went deer hunting a couple times with it - didn't even see anything close enough to get a shot off.  Also went bow hunting - much better sport, IMHO.  Shotguns? Sure, why not? Trap/skeet is a blast (no pun) Bird hunting is quite challenging, too, and puts food on the table. 

And if I had one of these guns in my house, and some yahoo decided to try to break in, after I called 911 to summon the police, I might - *might* - consider bringing it to bear on the situation.  Hard to say, really, what one would do in a situation like that, until it actually occurs. 

So, yes, I think it's fine for people to have firearms - long arms, that is, and use them in their homes if the need arises (altho I'd like to see the stats on how effective homeowners are at using weapons to defend their property, vs. getting themselves or others killed or hurt). 

I think handguns for the general population are a ludicrous "right" - and I don't think there is *any* justification for having them at all.  As for CCW, ditto.  Ludicrous.  As per all the other posts I've already written.  So if the deer-hunters could just agree that hunting with a .45, while perfectly reasonable as an argument, is not really worth protecting as a right, as long as the ability to have and use longarms is kept in tact, I think we'd be fine.  Pretty hard to conceal a .30-06 under a running suit in the summer time.  :thumb:

First of all you seem to be ignoring the FACT that firearms ownership is a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution and not something that is open to your personal interpretation and misinformed opinion (try reading the 2nd amendment sometime).
Secondly, I only use pistols and revolvers for hunting (there is a difference, although I wouldn't expect your kind to comprehend it) since I consider it just too easy to hunt with longarms.
As to protecting myself with a firearm, I prefer a more personal touch. But then I'm a sadistic bastard who enjoys slowly decimating my opponents, just ask anyone who's ever been in the ring with me.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 14, 2006, 11:32:41 pm
First of all you seem to be ignoring the FACT that firearms ownership is a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution and not something that is open to your personal interpretation and misinformed opinion (try reading the 2nd amendment sometime).
Secondly, I only use pistols and revolvers for hunting (there is a difference, although I wouldn't expect your kind to comprehend it) since I consider it just too easy to hunt with longarms.
As to protecting myself with a firearm, I prefer a more personal touch. But then I'm a sadistic bastard who enjoys slowly decimating my opponents, just ask anyone who's ever been in the ring with me.

Ay yi yi.   :rollseyes:   Why don't you try reading what I posted.   And then think about what the difference is between all-or-nothing politics versus concensus building. I am doing everything I can to resist condescension and snide remarks, but you are testing me.

Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: loc_dogg on November 14, 2006, 11:41:48 pm
You're an idiot!!  :kicknuts:  :finger:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: 251am on November 15, 2006, 06:29:14 am
First of all you seem to be ignoring the FACT that firearms ownership is a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution and not something that is open to your personal interpretation

  Sorry dude, you are DEAD wrong. It is a PRIVELAGE, not a right. Just like voting  legal gun ownership can be taken away quite simply. You are the one getting carried away with interpretations!
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Court Jester on November 15, 2006, 07:28:52 am
i'm voting for Earl Pitts
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 15, 2006, 10:21:19 am
i'm voting for Earl Pitts

No vote for me. Gonna solve the political problem quick, fast and in a hurry buy eliminating ALL political parties. Then convert to a monarchy with myself as King. No more bullscat from people, personal responsibility will be brought back. No more blaming your dog as the reason you committed a crime. People who move next to racetracks, highways, airports and shopping centers will be told to either SHUT THE denigrate UP or sell the property.

Have a bunch other ideas but dont have time to post them all.:biggrin:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: spyderchick on November 15, 2006, 11:22:06 am
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi People
who move next to racetracks, highways, airports and shopping centers will be told to either SHUT THE denigrate UP or sell the property.

Have a bunch other ideas but dont have time to post them all.:biggrin:

Why don't you declare a dictatorship and just take control of all property and do away with property ownership altogether? Then you can charge outrageous lease monies to those living there and support the sport of Motorcycle Raodracing, which would be the official national sport!

By the way, when did being a moderate make anyone a flaming communist? Oh yeah, when the far right took over, perspective shifted.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Jeff on November 15, 2006, 11:30:44 am
Your an idiot!!  :kicknuts:  :finger:

If you're gonna flame somebody, make sure you spell correctly, punctuate correctly and use the right words.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Court Jester on November 15, 2006, 12:18:26 pm
changed my mind.
i'm voting for Woofentino Pugrossi
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 15, 2006, 12:59:52 pm
Hell at the worst you'll have to refer to me as "You're royal majesty" at the track when I pick your bike up. :biggring: (10 to 1 one of you jokers will do that next year anyways.)

Although I will put a stop to Super Dave's exibitionism. :ahhh:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 15, 2006, 02:19:55 pm
Your an idiot!!  :kicknuts:  :finger:

ROTFLMAO...

 :spank:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Sobottka on November 15, 2006, 04:44:20 pm
  Sorry dude, you are DEAD wrong. It is a PRIVELAGE, not a right. Just like voting  legal gun ownership can be taken away quite simply. You are the one getting carried away with interpretations!

well its not a privelage...your dead wrong, the second amendment says"""""being necessary to the security of a free state, the RIGHT of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."""""  just because it can be taken away doesnt mean its not a right. having a drivers licence is a privelage gun ownership and voting are rights!
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: loc_dogg on November 15, 2006, 05:34:18 pm
Is that better Jeff? You have to remember, I was in the Army so I'm uneducated according to Kerry!
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 15, 2006, 06:02:47 pm
Is that better Jeff? You have to remember, I was in the Army so I'm uneducated according to Kerry!

Actually, Kerry didn't mean what you're implying - he just can't tell a joke  ::)  (I thought this was well-reported in the media, and more or less accepted - maybe you weren't watching tv that week.).   

Regarding the "right to own and bear arms" argument - this one is getting kinda old, too.  It turns out that the actual amendment is seldom cited in full, and right-wing gun advocates focus on only the above part of it.  Do you know what the rest of it says?  OK. Here it is:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Interpreting this has been the subject of great debate for years.  Are "the people" it refers to individuals? Or were the authors referring to the collective society that makes up our country?  If the latter, then it could be that what they intended was to make sure that the right for states and cities to have an armed police force was a right that the Fed could not infringe.  This is a pretty well-established argument, and one that has not yet been completely refuted (or, unfortunately, upheld).

In any case, it's worth considering, especially since most people are unaware the first part of the amendment even exists.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Sobottka on November 15, 2006, 06:11:21 pm
  (I thought this was well-reported in the media, and more or less accepted ...  


  ...by the kool-aid drinkers!!!
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Sobottka on November 15, 2006, 06:15:55 pm


Interpreting this has been the subject of great debate for years. 


this is the problem w/ the dems, everything is subject to interpretation/nuance. my quote is out of the first paragraph of the 2nd amendment, what is unclear about that?

btw- i dont hunt or own guns 
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: loc_dogg on November 15, 2006, 06:17:24 pm
I know, I know! I'm aware of what he meant to say! He just didn't say it that way! I have many guns and I dare you to try and come take one, you might actually get two, between the eyes! I'm a hostile, out of controle, ignorant, uneducated, white trash, redneck POS!! Why shouldn't I be allowed to own hand guns!? denigrate Dem's, denigrate Reps, denigrate Libs, I'm all about Communism!!  :preachon:  :lmao:  :lmao:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 15, 2006, 06:22:10 pm
Robsob:  You left out the part about "a well-regulated militia".

(I don't hunt/own guns either. But I don't object to other people owning guns and hunting with them...it's just the AK-47's, Uzis, Glocks, etc I have a problem with.).

dogg: Communism?  Sure?  Why not Fascism?  Actually, based on what you are saying, you should check out anarchism - doesn't make you a bad person, btw. 
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Sobottka on November 15, 2006, 06:27:03 pm
Robsob:  You left out the part about "a well-regulated militia".

 
i dont wanna be in a militia... but i do want to (have the option to) keep my state free
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: lilroy on November 15, 2006, 06:42:25 pm
i dont wanna be in a militia... but i do want to (have the option to) keep my state free

I think that this was the intention of this part of the constitution.  They wrote this shortly after arming themselves and overthrowing a government that was unwanted.  That said, it's pretty safe to say that they wanted future generations to have the right to arm themselves in the event that this little experiment known as the USA didn't work out like they intended. 

Pretty smart dudes really!!

I find it very difficult to argue that they intended this right only for states and cities.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Sobottka on November 15, 2006, 06:52:42 pm
sorry, shoulda put "state" in quotes
I think that this was the intention of this part of the constitution.  They wrote this shortly after arming themselves and overthrowing a government that was unwanted.  That said, it's pretty safe to say that they wanted future generations to have the right to arm themselves in the event that this little experiment known as the USA didn't work out like they intended. 

Pretty smart dudes really!!



thats a bunch o garbage... why cant it say what it says??? they were "pretty smart dudes"  right? or  are we only protected from certain types of threats to our freedom (such as overthrow of government but not personal freedom etc.)  ? ? ?
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: 251am on November 15, 2006, 07:30:51 pm
well its not a privelage...your dead wrong, the second amendment says"""""being necessary to the security of a free state, the RIGHT of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."""""  just because it can be taken away doesnt mean its not a right. having a drivers licence is a privelage gun ownership and voting are rights!


  Not quite,  as with a driver's license the gun ownership and your privelage to vote can be taken away under LOTS of different circumstances. We have the "right" to bear arms in the situation of an oppressive government. Yeah, interpretation sucks.

  Here's why CCW is now a relative point of debate in Wisconsin, to me anyway; Wisconsin is surrounded by states that have legalized CCW. Arming bears will help us. Please, go to the WI woods this weekend and arm a bear for freedom from the FIB deer hunters!!   :lmao:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: Sobottka on November 15, 2006, 07:39:38 pm
i think what you mean is our rights can (and will) be taken away but the constitution and bill of rights dont mention a drivers licence but do happen to mention gun ownership and voting... what  you mean is rights can be taken away such as felons, who lose their gun and voting rights but our rights (all of them) are a privelage!
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: loc_dogg on November 15, 2006, 07:58:12 pm
Damn Dummicraps!  :jerkoff:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 15, 2006, 08:36:29 pm
Glad to see you are so willing to rise up to such a lofty level of intellectual debate.

(And why in hell has no one smited this dude?).
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: loc_dogg on November 15, 2006, 08:46:03 pm
LOL  :Lao:  :Lao: Aww!! I refuse to debate ignorance and unwillingness to look at both sides without out prejudice!  :ass: I just like ruffling you feathers, because I know you are lost and may never see the light! And I love to piss off narrow minded Dems!  :biggrin: Don't get mad, I'm just a Republican Veteran w no education or insight of the world!  :Lao:  :Lao:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: JBraun on November 15, 2006, 09:13:30 pm
tshort, You're still fighting this fight?
Look at your poll, people here don't agree with you.
Quote
Kerry didn't mean what you're implying
What Kerry said was wrong, and he meant it exactly how it sounded. The only thing more appalling was that he tried to make an excuse for it. I think it would have been more effective to own it, apologize to our soldiers, and move on.
Quote
it's just the AK-47's, Uzis, Glocks, etc I have a problem with.)
What's the difference? an AK-47 is a semi-automatic rifle, very similar to the ones a lot of people hunt with. It looks nasty, but it's just a glorified deer rifle. I own a glock, it's not any different than any other handgun, oh and cops carry them too.
People who commit gun crimes don't give a scat whether or not the gun is illegal. Fully automatic weapons are illegal as hell, they're still all over the streets.
I can't believe I got sucked into this...
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 15, 2006, 11:32:25 pm
tshort, You're still fighting this fight?
Look at your poll, people here don't agree with you.

No?  9 do.  (and 14 don't).  Not really lopsided, I'd say.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on November 15, 2006, 11:35:09 pm
LOL  :Lao:  :Lao: Aww!! I refuse to debate ignorance and unwillingness to look at both sides without out prejudice!  :ass: I just like ruffling you feathers, because I know you are lost and may never see the light! And I love to piss off narrow minded Dems!  :biggrin: Don't get mad, I'm just a Republican Veteran w no education or insight of the world!  :Lao:  :Lao:
 

Me too!   ::)  (On most of above...).  Just having fun - trouble is, I just don't know when to quit.  You neither, huh??  :thumb:

(This debate has done wonders for my smite count, though - on the rise, and loving it).  :thumb:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: 251am on November 16, 2006, 06:03:34 pm
i think what you mean is our rights can (and will) be taken away but the constitution and bill of rights dont mention a drivers licence but do happen to mention gun ownership and voting... what  you mean is rights can be taken away such as felons, who lose their gun and voting rights but our rights (all of them) are a privelage!

 Yes, and yes. The "right" to bear arms literally means we have the right to stand up against an oppressive government, if necessary. Folks convicted of felonies, committed for mental health reasons, etc., etc., have lost the "rights" to vote and/or legally own guns. It's some bizarre threading of the needle per the interpretations and how in the hell did we get here in this discussion?! CCW legislation?   
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: laohu69 on November 27, 2006, 11:59:31 am
  Sorry dude, you are DEAD wrong. It is a PRIVELAGE, not a right. Just like voting  legal gun ownership can be taken away quite simply. You are the one getting carried away with interpretations!

Funny, I guess you are ignoring the part where the 2nd ammendment says (and I quote)"...SHALL NOT BE INFRIGED....."  www.dictionary.com
Feel free to look up the definition of any of those words you don't comprehend.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: laohu69 on November 27, 2006, 12:08:13 pm
Ay yi yi.   :rollseyes:   Why don't you try reading what I posted.   And then think about what the difference is between all-or-nothing politics versus concensus building. I am doing everything I can to resist condescension and snide remarks, but you are testing me.


Actually, I am being condescending to you. It is hard to attempt a rational discussion with someone who obviously lacks an understanding of the topic. You are apparently trying to "build a concensus" to attempt to validate your erroneous opinion. A "concensus" has little, if anything, to do with the facts. The FACT is that according to the 2nd ammendment of the US Constitution I have the RIGHT to keep & bear arms and that this RIGHT shall NOT BE INFRINGED.
I fail to see why you anti gun people have such a hard time with reading comprehension. Since guns terrorize you so much then don't own one. Don't worry though, all of us men will still fight to protect you and your other RIGHTS that are guarenteed to you by the Constitution.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: dylanfan53 on November 28, 2006, 01:10:46 am
Don't worry though, all of us men will still fight to protect you and your other RIGHTS that are guarenteed to you by the Constitution.
More likely you'll shoot yourself in the foot. What're you gonna do, take up arms with a militia and fight the US Army?
 
Maybe you'd like to live all your life by all the same rules and culture that existed when the constitution was written?  But I suppose you just want to pick and choose those that you agree with.

If you can't provide an adequate defense today for owning a weapon without resorting to the constitution I question whether that part of the constitution is relevant any more.

BTW, I'm a hunter.  I own guns and kill poor defenseless creatures and eat them, but I don't buy the argument that just because it was appropriate 200 years ago to defend the right to own a gun means it's still valid.  Time's change and maybe it's not such a great idea to make guns accessible to the goofballs you see in the local gun store.

At the local sports store, the hunters are a minority.  My wife refuses to go near the place because of the Chicago and Gary gangbangers buying the latest semi autos to tuck in the pants.  They're not interested in the constitutional rights of anyone.
 
Rave on folks....

I can't believe I answered this post. Cut it out, Tom. It's like arguing politics at Thanksgiving dinner with my sister.  Someone always ends up pissed off.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: laohu69 on November 29, 2006, 10:05:59 am
More likely you'll shoot yourself in the foot. What're you gonna do, take up arms with a militia and fight the US Army?
 
Maybe you'd like to live all your life by all the same rules and culture that existed when the constitution was written?  But I suppose you just want to pick and choose those that you agree with.

If you can't provide an adequate defense today for owning a weapon without resorting to the constitution I question whether that part of the constitution is relevant any more.

BTW, I'm a hunter.  I own guns and kill poor defenseless creatures and eat them, but I don't buy the argument that just because it was appropriate 200 years ago to defend the right to own a gun means it's still valid.  Time's change and maybe it's not such a great idea to make guns accessible to the goofballs you see in the local gun store.

At the local sports store, the hunters are a minority.  My wife refuses to go near the place because of the Chicago and Gary gangbangers buying the latest semi autos to tuck in the pants.  They're not interested in the constitutional rights of anyone.
 
Rave on folks....

I can't believe I answered this post. Cut it out, Tom. It's like arguing politics at Thanksgiving dinner with my sister.  Someone always ends up pissed off.  :biggrin:

Actually it is you and your ilk (communists who are terrorized by guns) who are trying to "pick and choose" what parts of the Constitution you desire to adhere to.
Since you are obviously ignorant of the 2nd ammendment (try reading it and the rest of the Bill of Rights alomng with the Constitution sometime) I'll help you out a little (I'm always ready to help educate misinformed people). Hunting is in no way a right guarenteed. The specific weapons guarenteed by the 2nd ammendment are military weapons.
If you can't provide an adequate defemse for freedom of speech (or freedom of religion, or the right to assemble and protest, or voting rights, etc.) without resorting to the Constitution I question whether that part of the Constitution is relevant anymore. See that is just as stupid as when you said it.
It's a good thing that we had such wise and forward looking people writing the Constitution and Bill of Rights to protect us from small minded and ignorant people such as yourself who "don't buy" my RIGHTS because of your irrational fears.
BTW since you and your wife are so scared of going certain places because of "Chicago and Gary gangbangers" then stay home and hide behind a locked door, there are plenty of us (you know, soldiers, cops, etc.) protecting you and your kind as we always have throughout history.
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: dylanfan53 on November 29, 2006, 09:32:01 pm
Aw man...you had to get rude and call me "small minded and ignorant".  Now you've gone and killed the conversation and just when I've been called a communist for the first time in my life! 

:lmao: 
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: 251am on November 30, 2006, 09:56:21 pm
Actually it is you and your ilk (communists who are terrorized by guns) who are trying to "pick and choose" what parts of the Constitution you desire to adhere to.

  Man, if you're gonna troll with bait like that buy a fishing license from Jeff would ya!   :lmao:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: chaplain220 on December 03, 2006, 10:04:12 pm
Boy, I hope I'm not too late coming in on this one, I love a good fight, havn't seen one like this since I got punched in the face in early March.  Well, I own guns, have killed two men, (not by shooting them), and am finishing up a career as a State Trooper while in seminary and racing motorcycles, kinda strange life, eh?  Though I don't agree with everything that has come out of the White House, I do have to admit that there has been no more cowardly slaughter of our citizens on our streets since 9-11, and, like it or not, President Bush has been at the helm and deserves some credit for directing our resources to this end.  The loss of our soldiers and Marines is very painful, but I'd much rather see these violent predators that comprise the death squads and radical islamic gangs, coming up against the best trained free fighting force in the world, on their soil, then struggling through the endless images of our civilian population being butchered on our streets and in our schools.  Art. 
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: loc_dogg on December 04, 2006, 04:31:21 pm
+1, 1st Infantry Division Veteran
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on December 07, 2006, 05:19:19 pm
Aw man...you had to get rude and call me "small minded and ignorant".  Now you've gone and killed the conversation and just when I've been called a communist for the first time in my life! 

:lmao: 

 :cheers:  Way to go, Don - now they think you're a communist.   :lmao: I'd be afraid - very afraid.  These guys like their guns, and they don't like communist pinko weenies - even if you claim you're not one.  And they are probably big and mean and tough, and could kill you (and me and the horse we rode in on) with their BARE hands.  Whoa. Dude. 
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: tshort on December 07, 2006, 05:34:08 pm
The loss of our soldiers and Marines is very painful, but I'd much rather see these violent predators that comprise the death squads and radical islamic gangs, coming up against the best trained free fighting force in the world, on their soil, then struggling through the endless images of our civilian population being butchered on our streets and in our schools.  Art. 

?  As in, let's kick their terrorist asses on their own soil before they bring it to us on ours?  Wow. What a concept.  First of all, you can't fight a war on terror, any more than you can fight a war on war.  Terrorism is not a country - it is a behavior designed to produce a specific emotional reaction.  Add to that the fact that the people who currently seem to have quite a bit of interest in terrorizing the US belong to one of the five major world religions (Islam).  And Islam exists on pretty much every continent (and includes a good number of adherents right here in the good ol', mighty mom, pop, and Chevrolet USofA).

But the real cherry on top, is that you may be implying that there is some connection between allowing concealed carry and fighting the war on terror.  I can't imagine what that connection would be.  But if, in fact, that's what you're trying to do, then I need help understanding it.  (Yes, I know, you're probably thinking, 'No, pal. You just need help...'  Ha ha).

Anyway, while I have great respect for those in our country's military, past and present, I do not support our lame-ass president and his assertion that a) Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 b) that al quaeda had anything to do with 9/11 c) that iraq had wmd d) that al quaeda is behind what's going on in iraq today (eg, civil war - yes, that's what it is - call a spade a spade).  The current administration has hoodwinked a gulllible american public with their rhetoric and propaganda.  And we, as a people, are too stupid to see through it.   I'm starting to go off on a tear, here, so I will stop. 
 :preachon:
Title: Re: communists Rule! (and Bush still sux) [POLL]
Post by: LilJayRR on December 07, 2006, 09:05:57 pm
Holy crapola Batman!!

This is like a good book you cant put down!