:banghead: :finger: :ass:
If anybody else would have blewup a fresh, newly built 600 motor at RA this year, had it out the next day and at the builders shop 2 days after RA and still has nothing to race on for the next couple of races would anybody else be mad. Or is this just the part of racing I never knew about :wtf:
I sunk alot of $$$ in racing this and last year to go racing, hell my in the last two years my bike has only 5 weekends on it with only 4 races tops a weekend, and it just doesnt seem to end with some people breaking it off in your ass :kicknuts:. if any body wants, on the classified ads my shits up 4 sale.
OK Iam done venting but the bike and everything else is still going
Well why is the motor taking so long? Are they waiting for OEM parts? If they are just dragging their feet, I would be taking the motor back and look for someone else to do it.
Yes its part of racing. It does get frustrating. I blew up a f/c motor at Riverside in 88 one weekend during practice and grenaded one of my spares in the next practice. And my last spare decided not to hold together towards the end of the race. Really sucks when you are leading and BAM!! Shop we used was also used by a lot of the other guys in the area and usually got backlogged. Ended up with getting 1 rebuilt and buying 2 new ones (the last 2 destroyed the blocks). Ended up to be around $60K altogether wasted in one weekend. And people think racing bikes is expensive. :D
How about snagging a used motor until you get you race one back?
i guess they are loooking for used parts to replace all the junk stuff, basicly the head etc..
If it's taking that long, go get the motor and take it to someone competent like Valley Racing. They won't put in used parts either, they'll use the right stuff, unless you tell them different. Worth every penny. Good luck, I hate to see people leaving the sport.
well the other problem is they where gonna eat the cost because 4an opps....i mean "they" just built it with new parts
Quote from: spyderchick on June 01, 2006, 04:37:59 PMIf it's taking that long, go get the motor and take it to someone competent like Valley Racing.
***cough ***cough***shameless plug***cough*** :biggrin:
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on June 01, 2006, 09:03:58 PM
***cough ***cough***shameless plug***cough*** :biggrin:
Huh??? :biggrin:
Credit where credit is due.
Alexa, Ive been told too check Vally out a few times already.
Quote from: jer271 on June 02, 2006, 09:38:24 AM
Alexa, Ive been told too check Vally out a few times already.
So what are you waiting for, dumbass? Or are you starting to ENJOY having every inch of Shop Ten up your man hole?
Valley is the way to go. Your motors will last, you'll get good results, and you'll be happy. That would be 708-946-1440. But personally Jeremy, I'd rather you didn't use Valley. How would I recognise you if you weren't stalking around the pits with a pissed-off scowl on your mug and that slight, bow-legged limp that gives away a Shop Ten customer every time? :ass:
On a different topic, I was wondering. If someone is penetrated against their will, we call that person a rape victim. Now if someone PAYS for the privledge of being penetrated, at a business where this sort of thing is reputed to occur daily, and if this person (JB) has been around long enough to KNOW who he's dealing with before the transaction occurs, is it really against his will? :spank:
Maybe we should start a seperate section of this forum just for Shop Ten customers to grieve about having their bike and their season ruined. "Hi, My name is Jeremy, and I lost my virginity and the 2006 racing season to Shop Ten."
That..... was some of the funnist shit ive ever read before Chris,
Ive been trying for the last couple of years, not to be so pissed off all the time b.t.w.
:biggrin: :thumb: See? Somebody around here gets my sense of humor!
Ive seen your humor for about three years now Iam just computer Shy and just started really typing recently
Oh, and don't quit. You're too talented, and aside from that too stubborn to go out like a punk. :wtf:
So what to do? Regroup. Valley can and will build you the motor that you expected to get before. Just specify that you want it to last. Ask Ed Key about the balance between longevity and max power....
You also know that Kwaterski, Lithium, and Superbike Italia can all build you safe, excellent suspension. Choose one and stay with them for the long haul. Suspension has to be developed. It's important to let your tuner have a period of time to get your bike dialed in to your specific style. All that leaves is showing up and going fast, which you already have shown that you know how to do.
Don't quit, bro. Just get better shops in your corner!
Thank you very very much for the props Chris, It really means alot to me
:kissy:
Yeah, whatever. I call 'em like I see 'em. And you sure don't have to tell me how it feels to have more drive and desire than money. Take the rest of the year off and regroup if you have to, but don't walk yet. You have unfinished business.
(I'm merely recycling a speech Rhiannon gave me a few years back, so I can't really take credit for all this wisdom....)
:biggrin:
:whine: is this the proper sign for me right now or what, Iam only preaching to the choir about all this, to many guys warned me about my purchase last winter when I bought it :jerkoff: pretty much is what I was told
Jeff I love these new cartoon guys
Well, now you have to hang around if only to warn others!
Even new parts can be hard for manufacturers to have on hand for current year models. Part of JIT inventories to reduces overall costs.
Not sure what you meant there, Dave. :wtf: Maybe you just shouldn't say anything?
Another possible reason could be that the shop hasn't been paying its bills, and has therefore been cut off by its suppliers. I've heard this rumor straight from the lips of two different motorcycle supply warehouse sales reps in reguards to one of the Chicago North-side area race shops....
But perhaps this shop can be saved from bankruptcy if we the racing community all pool together and send them some fresh victims.... er, customers!
Well uh, lets clear something up a lil more here.
A. They "shop 10" built the motor all brand new for Safty first racing-SS bike with A FX head so I was told and a couple of other cool parts
B. it was ran at Lithium for a breakin a couple of heat cycles and up and down the road
C. Then the bike was Dynoed and mapped
D. I brought the bike home and rode it on the street for the day putting miles on it
E. went out the first practice at RA easy on it then started racing it hard
Did I, in turn, do something wrong on the breakin here or NO. I thought for a race bike I did everything right by even riding it for the day with my street plastic on. So if it was all brand new, when I paid for that " A brand new Rebuilt motor " why, when the bike let go do I Have to wait this long to go racing again. I also dont think its right that Kevin Hanson, who has been really cool about the whole thing, has to chase around for used parts because somebody else had too do something wrong somwhere. Not to mention Kevin is a little busy this time if year and peeon club racer like MYself isnt really a priority now. My opinion the motor should be rebuilt by the builder and if there was a malfunction like I was told with the parts supplied by suzuki he should take that up with them, not put me on the back burner.
Also lithuim put oil in the bike and new filter, and after the first practice session I did a new filter and oil @RA.
Sounds like the motor was broken in properly. I would throw a leg over anything Lithium built and ride it like I stole it. Too bad Lithium only mapped your motor, and weren't the ones who built it.
What Suzuki parts failed? That Suzuki.... Always engineering parts that fail....
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on June 04, 2006, 03:06:34 PM
Not sure what you meant there, Dave. :wtf: Maybe you just shouldn't say anything?
Another possible reason could be that the shop hasn't been paying its bills, and has therefore been cut off by its suppliers.
Not sure, but I never knew any race prep shops that are OEM dealers.
I don't know Dave.. We're making a lot of accusations, excuses and comments when most of us are not involved in it.
People are calling it like they see it. K3 is sick of seeing people get bent over. You just want people to give this shop a chance since you've had a good relationship with them.
In the end, Jeremy still has no bike and Jim has no comments as of yet.
Here is a purely hypothetical question, free of accusations, suppositions, or excuses. We all know that blown motors have tossed people to the ground. Bad suspension has tossed people to the ground. This has been happening since the beginning in racing. Mostly, this is why the less adventurous among us pay a top-notch shop to handle the scarier aspects of our bike preparation. Now, getting tossed to the ground can sometimes have tragic results. So if a hypothetical shop makes a habit of doing shoddy work, how long does it take before Murphy's Law comes into effect, and said hypothetical shop is responsible for a tragedy?
Scary, scary stuff. I HATE seeing people get hurt more than anything else in this world, and sure hope that it never happens to anybody, reguardless of who prepped their bike.
That said, I sure wouldn't want Team Hypothetical Racing on the side of my bike, trailer, or website if THAT actually happened....
Hey, here's a story about how to really do it right. Ed Kwaterski of Trackside Engineering rebuilt my Ohlins shock on a Thursday. On Friday, the shock blew all it's oil and nitrogin onto my rear tire. Somehow I didn't crash.
Back in the pits, I discovered that my battery tray had come adrift, beating on the shock resevior until it loosened up. This was in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM ED'S FAULT! I called Ed, told him what had happened, and told him that I had to race the next day. He said "Bring it."
So Ed finishes rebuilding my shock for the second time in two days at about 10:00 Friday night. Meanwhile, his VERY PREGNANT wife has cooked us a delicious dinner! After I eat, I try to pay Ed. He says, "Naw. You paid me yesterday. Besides, some guys might not have admitted about the battery tray, and left me wondering if I'd made a mistake."
THAT is how a business should be run. Turns out it was also a very wise investment for Ed, too. I've brought Trackside Engineering thousands of dollars in business since that day, and I'll never forget or stop telling people how he looked out for me.
Dave how long have you been involved in motorcycles? With every dealer and their brother doing the wholesale thing every tuner has access with OEM stuff. And if you buy it you get the associated support (warranty). Hell when we started Badger the OEM shit was the first and easiest hurdle out of the way.
jer you only need to look at the shops reputation from day on and see the shit that they push out of there(they are afraid to roll it). Good luck, consider yourself screwed like the rest.
Ed RULES, PERIOD!! He may not be the quickest, but is the best!! HE is the guy who made all my bikes fast from day one. Anyone that has seen my stuff knows that I didn't have big motors or anything crazy, just Ed in my corner tape measure and clickers in hand.
does anyone have an 04/05 600 motor i can buy, or does this builder chris and jason are talkig about possibly have one. my year is pretty much shot for points right now after pre enterig the whole year.
what really sucks is this was supposed to be my first year with suspension done right and a good motor, so i was pretty excited till now.
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on June 04, 2006, 09:10:19 PM
Here is a purely hypothetical question, free of accusations, suppositions, or excuses. We all know that blown motors have tossed people to the ground. Bad suspension has tossed people to the ground. This has been happening since the beginning in racing. Mostly, this is why the less adventurous among us pay a top-notch shop to handle the scarier aspects of our bike preparation. Now, getting tossed to the ground can sometimes have tragic results. So if a hypothetical shop makes a habit of doing shoddy work, how long does it take before Murphy's Law comes into effect, and said hypothetical shop is responsible for a tragedy?
Well, we can go further back in the hypothetical situations...
How many riders have thrown themselves to the ground because of their own actions that resulted in blown motors?
How many riders have thrown themselves to the ground just because of errors, period?
How many riders have been thrown to the ground because of motors that were assembled by the original manufacturer?
These things all happen. I don't think there is a way to even necessarily say that one's lap times will always improve on the newest bike. Sometimes riders don't improve the next year. Murphy's Law?
Every year costs will go up. If you can't afford new, one buys used. Used. I'm not sure of my expectations of warranty on a new product purchased for road racing even when compared to used. Either is going to be hard to get done in a timely manner for no cost. If you can, well, good.
Is there an angry section about helmets?
Quote from: DAmico on June 05, 2006, 12:18:57 AM
Dave how long have you been involved in motorcycles? With every dealer and their brother doing the wholesale thing every tuner has access with OEM stuff. And if you buy it you get the associated support (warranty). Hell when we started Badger the OEM shit was the first and easiest hurdle out of the way.
Long time.
Anyone can purchase OEM parts through a dealer. Pretty simple. But unless you're a OEM franchised shop, you're not buying direct from the OEM US distribution channel.
Not sure where all this is going, but someone seems to be saying that "said shop" is "cut off" from suppliers. Seriously, unless someone has some paper work to show it...
Hey all - K3 hooked me up with Valley and i am happy he did - i bought a sv700 that they rebuilt and it runs like very strong- just practicing with it and should be ready early July at ccs event- it feels bullet proof but i will know better later- shop seemed very savvy with the couple of "extras" i had them install- i dont post much but with the difficulties ive had w my 650 and "mechanics" that :ahhh: i started and wasted so much time with early here in my endeavors, the importance has definately been increased in my experience to do just what our more experienced posters/racers are saying- find a highly regarded shop and stay!Thanks again CHRIS, been workin alot to pay for bike and van so 1st race and maybe only race this year is comin soon :thumb:-Cheers all- John in NJ
Hey John, glad you're happy! I have 100% confidence in Brian's work, and in his shop, Valley Racing. Any time I make a recomendation, I take it very seriously. My own reputation as a racer, a writer of racing books and articles, and as a track coach is what gives my recomendations credibility. I'm very careful not to recomend a shop which might do shoddy work and embarrass me or damage my reputation.
You've got one of the nicest SVs in the country there, and from what I've heard even THAT wasn't enough for you, because you had Brian make it even tricker! It will be very exciting to hear how you do when you start racing the beast!
Quote from: jer271 on June 05, 2006, 08:26:43 AM
what really sucks is this was supposed to be my first year with suspension done right and a good motor, so i was pretty excited till now.
Hang in there, and keep shopping for a motor. I did not pre-reg as you had but my story is a parallel to yours in the suspension dept; I dumped major cash at same shop only to spend first 2 rounds at RA & BHF sorting out what was so badly screwed up.
a. Don't let some person here muddy the waters with bizzare reasoning and tangents. Trust your instincts and get your shit the f*@k out of their shop.
b. Now, when your motor and your piece of mind are back together again with a new builder, such as Valley, be an adviser. When you see someone directed to that Shop 10, fill in the uneducated on your story in a quick PM.
:cheers:
c. Start to have fun again. Think of that furry K3 beast stalking the pits and you're scowl will soon disappear!!
Again with the furry beast shit.... :err:
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on June 05, 2006, 09:44:01 PM
Again with the furry beast shit.... :err:
Come out of the cave, away from the typewriter, to a barber...
Hey Chris who's the Valley Racing engine builder? I thought I saw the phone # somewhere here...
Thanks K3- yea Brian's Valley Racing in lower area of Chicago isnt right around the corner from me but with all ive wasted so far on HOPE SO techs, has not helped and is costly, have racebike will travel!- 251 ,i hoped suspension work was correct for too long before i realized my coments went nowhere for long enough-i know its an expensive hobby but i had many sucessful national level snowmobile racing years way back and have no trouble turning throttles, but need to feel a lil confidence in the machines' accuracy/compliance/etc and until now, i can only say ive had better handling streetbikes in the past, and mostly what i am in this for is to ride better stuff! I will rely on Brian in the future for motor work if needed,but a more local suspension shop- is helping me with suspension and a hi load charging system failure that has plagued me also,which i spent the last 2 of my last 5 start up years with- it has failed in latter part of races ( i heard the helmeted grins of formerly beaten coracers later in races)and has been a real disheartening start of roadracing for me- its playing on a edy dyno now and isnt coming home till its done ! point of all this is ,i would have accomplished much more since i started if i had taken K3's and a couple others advice :boink: :boink: :boink:(use highly touted by experiencd racers" shops)early on instead of relying on the local guys who got me started,then mostly crashed and faded away in the same and next year,taking $ and disregarding my suspesion issues! I learned from them a very important thing- the responsability of attaing the results i expect from myself liies with myself!!!! :boink: :boink:I intend to keep on anyway and will hope to get in a round or two before the season ends- my graduating from rutgers daughter wont be needin mo $ from here on also- :biggrin: :biggrin: Thanks again k3 the way i see it you singlehandedly kept me in the sport- at 51 next week, idont want to waste lotsa time as i did early on! I will spend where i feel my $ affects a shop in a way that i am their reason for sustaining their customer service is their highest priority only from here on! John in NJ Catman in my "ARCTIC" days
On the topic of who to take your stuff to, just do this.
GET MORE THAN ONE OPINION...
oh i did, and most opinions where :jerkoff:, I just wana race again.
i was looking more at the motor being all brand new from them. and who i bought it from, i took the chance. I think they will be cool about replacing it but when. i dont have 2bikes and unlimited $$ to go racing. this was suposed to just be competitive FUN just club racing. I would just go buy a new bike its not a problem, I just spent alot of $$ in this shitbox and i wanted to run it this year.
sorry about the shit i stirred up guys.
Quote from: jer271 on June 06, 2006, 10:28:55 AM
i was looking more at the motor being all brand new from them. and who i bought it from, i took the chance. I think they will be cool about replacing it but when. i dont have 2bikes and unlimited $$ to go racing. this was suposed to just be competitive FUN just club racing. I would just go buy a new bike its not a problem, I just spent alot of $$ in this shitbox and i wanted to run it this year.
sorry about the shit i stirred up guys.
No need to apologize here. There's plenty of people mad at 4&6. Take a look at the AMA RAmerica results and a good deal of the DNS and DNFs are from that shop.
Find a motor yet?
no motor yet and i think ive got everything sold, now not only do i not go racing but i cdould lose the sale. the guy knows the situation thankfully
still might need a motor if ya got one 251am
Quote from: jer271 on June 07, 2006, 09:33:23 AM
still might need a motor if ya got one 251am
Not yet, but I'll help you look. That's considered K4/K5 series, right? Would a 750 motor be acceptable if found?
no 750's iam trying to sell it as a 600 and if i cant sell it, iam racing, all mid wieght classes
thanx, jer271 a.k.a. fatkid
Quote from: 251am on June 05, 2006, 10:18:47 PM
Hey Chris who's the Valley Racing engine builder? I thought I saw the phone # somewhere here...
708-946-1440
Brian Conley is the shop owner and master builder.
Quote from: jer271 on June 08, 2006, 06:18:10 AM
no 750's iam trying to sell it as a 600 and if i cant sell it, iam racing, all mid wieght classes
thanx, jer271 a.k.a. fatkid
Alright fatkid, I found you 4 600 motors, yours to choose from. PM me your e-mail... :kissy:
bentzracing271@yahoo.com
[fatherly voice]
JEREMY!
4&6? After all that you'd been told? Is this how you were raised????
I'm.... disappointed in you.
[end fatherly voice]
You've had a few recommendations here, that are probably really good shops. Let me toss mine in... Matt at MD. He's definitely not the fastest motor builder out there, but he's good. Takes his time and builds good, solid, season-lasting motors. He's also very reasonably priced. We ran a whole Team Challenge season on Dan's bike (on top of all of Dan's sprints...and you know he's Mr. Iron Man when it comes to running every sprin race he can) and the motor held up all season and still ran like a champ when it was rebuilt over the winter.
4&6. Really. I'm... speechless. *sigh*
I know, I know, and now I am sitting on the sidelines.
Quote from: jer271 on June 12, 2006, 08:50:18 AM
I know, I know, and now I am sitting on the sidelines.
No motor yet?
I don't know what's been happening with all these problem reguarding 4&6.
I had been doing business with them for 4 years, before I moved from Chicago.
I worked there for 2 years, and Ed and Jim taught me a lot. Ed taught me how to build motors.The only problem I had was building the hand grenade SV engines.
Ed's a great engine builder. I'm sad that you guys are having these problems.
As far as OEM parts. Last year, I built a bulletproof SV engine, $5k invested. Guess what the weak link was. Piece of shit Suzuki engine cases. They cracked at the casting mark, in 3 places.
I ordered a new set of cases. Took 2 months to get them.
Ed does not do shoddy work. Other than that, I just can't say what's happening there.
Quote from: BlueRidgePerformance on June 14, 2006, 05:39:21 PM
I don't know what's been happening with all these problem reguarding 4&6.
I had been doing business with them for 4 years, before I moved from Chicago.
I worked there for 2 years, and Ed and Jim taught me a lot. Ed taught me how to build motors.The only problem I had was building the hand grenade SV engines.
Ed's a great engine builder. I'm sad that you guys are having these problems.
As far as OEM parts. Last year, I built a bulletproof SV engine, $5k invested. Guess what the weak link was. Piece of shit Suzuki engine cases. They cracked at the casting mark, in 3 places.
I ordered a new set of cases. Took 2 months to get them.
Ed does not do shoddy work. Other than that, I just can't say what's happening there.
Funny. I can't even count on TWO hands the # of 4&6 motors, owned by friends of mine, that have blown up in the last year.
Then there's all the motors that have blown up owned by my acquaintances.... and then there's all the motors owned by guys I haven't met...
PS - Fatkid didn't mean to make ya feel bad. Sorry it happened to you too :(
What's next? You finally gonna go whoop some ass with 4-wheels?
Thats Ok Iam starting to get a little anoid though, I finaly had myself-so i tought- financialy in a good position to go racing for the whole year, pre enterd for everything and this happens. I wanna buy a new bike but it aint worth it for this year-its already a loss. 4 wheels? shit i dont think I could do that jimmy never been into street racing or drifting or circle track or road racing hmmmmmm its a thought, i could try it once i guess.
ive got a lil mustang sitting in the garage i could pull out for some of those solo run races ive been hearing about
later -F.K.
Admin note: Nice first post.
:wtf:
nothing special, someone drops in and slams someone who participated in this thread but made no real statements on either side and dropped it after like the 1st page. Nice that people show up 4 months later and slam a person that had about 1% involvement in the thread.
Whatever...
<whistling>
:err: :rollseyes: :biggrin:
Garth?
Ok for all you haters out there. We did not sell the bike that jeremy has. When we have the parts it will be done. If you have a beef about the parts call Kevin at Safety First Yes race motors break . When you rev motors as high as the new ones go stuff happens. I am so glad that every other shop is so perfect , be my guest and take it there. I'm sure no other shop ever has a motor failure or any other problem. The motors we seem to maintain ourselves for customers even blew up. Oops i forgot , I manufacture the parts so it must be my problem. Safety First has blown 4 motors this year , 2 for broken valves and 2 with cams that weren't hardened properly. Oh yes it must be my fault . Oops rod snapped in 2 my fault. Well stuff happens , when a bike revs to 15,000 and above guess what happens when you downshift ? Well almost 18,000 rpm and the data aq verifies this. This guys good , that guys good , well send your stuff tho the AMA races and put it in the Top Ten consitently, I guess it must be easy as the bikes we build do it. Put up all you haters or shut up. Oh and when all you guys can put it on Larry Denning let me know. I should be at Blackhawk this weekend as we are testing on Fri and Sat, I hope to see all your smiling faces in person. Oh at maybe actually go to an AMA race sometimes on thursday for the practices , at Road America you would have seen barnes destroy 2 600's before lunch , and easlick did one , oh and so did a couple of hondas . Boy i bet those motor builders suck also. Flame away ladies! Jim
Hey know every one has been cool on your end Jim and Ive told every body it was an "equipment failure" per ED, and To tell you the truth of it, the motor was "fast as virgin on prom night" Also said you guys and kevin where taking care of it. So far my only beef is a new motor properly broke in shouldnt blow up- and shit happens, and I agree with your post nobodys perfect but this also wasnt your doing with the valve dropping. I just wana race and everybody has told me crap stories and everybody has told great stories about 4&6, and after hearing them all, talking too some people, and meeting Ed down at your shop I still bought a motor with your name on it. So like I said I missed alot of my year I just wanna race without sinking alot more $$ into a obsolite bike after this year. Sorry about the post and Ill keep it too myself for now on.
Doesn't always work that way...
Motors don't have a heavy crosshatch on iron cylinders that need the kind of breaking in that they did not so long ago.
Lots of the important bearings are plain bearings...if there's oil pressure, those should really never touch...no real break in there.
Valves...
It's titanium. It's not going to stretch, it's not repairable. Simple fact is that the new generation of ti valved bikes are going to have problems, more so than their previous ones. That's why I kept my old yellow bike.
Manufacturer defects cause problems that cannot be fixed, they can only be "found" upon the destruction of those parts. I've been there. I was trying to "break in" a bike, and it broke.
Oh yeah, I'll see you at Blackhawk this weekend with that $600 refund check you have been promising for me, right?
Yes I will have it for you!
I guess you are right Dave and like I said, Equipment failure. As much as I wanted too blame everybody but myself for the motor launching and get on the hate 4&6 bandwagon, I didnt because we all know Suzuki valving sucks and it wasnt their (4&6s) fault. I just wanted my motor fixed sooner then it has been but it didnt happen and Im pissy about it. What can you really do?, but Buy an R6 next time and leave it completly stock.
Jeremy even the new 600's stock are breaking. I think Jason Temme had something break on his 06 R6 at road America during the thursay practice for AMA. It might of been a crank or something. I don't know if his was stock. The problem is spinning these bikes upwards of 15500 and stuff fails stock or not. Most streetbikes normally never see that kind of rpm for long periods.
Well, we will leave the source out of it but, his motors are built too. Again, Iam sorry for startnig this thread Jim.
Did Kevin get the rest of the parts yet?
You would have to talk to kevin on the parts. I am not sure give him a call as he is out of town right now. I understand your frustration. I'm surprised a built motor reaking i thought that only happens to my customers. I wonder what K3 would have to say about that! LOL
i need a engine 4 my 2006 600 that i havent raced yet
still waiting patiecently
patiently, spelling error
well now at least you have 2 other bikes :whine: wanna lend me one :lmao:
Quote from: Super Dave on July 12, 2006, 10:22:14 AM
Doesn't always work that way...
Motors don't have a heavy crosshatch on iron cylinders that need the kind of breaking in that they did not so long ago.
Lots of the important bearings are plain bearings...if there's oil pressure, those should really never touch...no real break in there.
Valves...
It's titanium. It's not going to stretch, it's not repairable. Simple fact is that the new generation of ti valved bikes are going to have problems, more so than their previous ones. That's why I kept my old yellow bike.
Manufacturer defects cause problems that cannot be fixed, they can only be "found" upon the destruction of those parts. I've been there. I was trying to "break in" a bike, and it broke.
Hey Dave,
Being that you receive "favors" of service from said shop wouldn't you want to maintain a little more neutrality here or at least disclose that your an unofficial salesman.
If you want to continue advocating for your employer, 4&6, you should give up the position of moderator. You're not moderating on behalf of the interest of racing and this site, but a sponsor you're receiving from.
Quote from: jer271 on July 12, 2006, 01:59:13 PM
Well, we will leave the source out of it but, his motors are built too. Again, Iam sorry for startnig this thread Jim.
Why not finish it?
Jim of shop10 or something didn't build it. Who's fault is it?
Quote from: 251am on July 13, 2006, 09:05:20 AM
Hey Dave,
Being that you receive "favors" of service from said shop wouldn't you want to maintain a little more neutrality here or at least disclose that your an unofficial salesman.
If you want to continue advocating for your employer, 4&6, you should give up the position of moderator. You're not moderating on behalf of the interest of racing and this site, but a sponsor you're receiving from.
This is all very interesting...
First, I am not an employee of 4&6 or any company that is owned by the owners or employees of 4&6.
I have a decent list of sponsors. Some I've had a relationship with longer than others.
I didn't apply to be a moderator, I was asked, and I accepted for the second time on the CCS Forum. I do this on my time, and I pretty much shoot it like I see it. Compliments where compliments are due, regardless of who's doing stuff. I do have opinions based on a really long time of actually competiting in the silly sport. A sport that many riders who have migrated from track days are now claiming to be victims in many ways compared to the days of not so long ago.
Additionally, there is a lot of hype based advertising in the motorcycle industry. I see junky bits of things floating around and even unneccesary things being used. These are my opinions based on my generalizations of experiences. You're free to listen or not.
My opinion might be different about how things really are on something based on generalizations from riding a pretty long list of bikes, tracks, etc...and working with a decent list of talented and untalented riders...compared to a person with less experience.
If that opinion doesn't suit one, then one should find in one's logic to do a few things: go out and gain all the experience on their own either through paying to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result, learning from others with a little more experience gained in similar ways, or listen to others or ignore them. Quite simply, an individual is still responsible for their decisions.
Unoffical salesman...
That goes a lot of ways now doesn't it...
For those that have Lockhart-Philips listed on their sponsor information...
Are you responsible for a manufacturers defect on a product that another person buys from Lockhart Philips? What if they are out of stock? What if the person uses it incorrectly?
How many non stickered bikes are out there? That would be the only non sales bike.
Quote from: 251am on July 13, 2006, 09:05:20 AM
If you want to continue advocating for your employer, 4&6, you should give up the position of moderator. You're not moderating on behalf of the interest of racing and this site, but a sponsor you're receiving from.
SNAP!Mr Ronso? Response? :pop:
damn K3... get a hobby.
Ok, so how would me not being a moderator change anything?
Did you ask me to sticky, delete, or modify something that wasn't done by myself or some other moderator?
Let's just use this whole post as an example...
I think I could have abused my "power" to delete, modify, etc. posts...
Not being a moderator still leaves me with the opportunity to have an opinion, and a forum to post.
I'm not a moderator to get anyone to like me more.
You were the one that PM'ed me to drop my relationship with "shop10" or whatever code you'd like to give to Jim, Ed, Meghan, Ivan, etc. at 4&6.
You made claims that I saw to be false, hurtful, and directed to reduce the business that 4&6 has. Have you stood up and told your stance face to face to them? What was your relationship with them when you were their customer?
Sponsorship aside, 4&6 has dropped a lot of time into racing. I have yet to see an IRL sized shop. I haven't seen any extravagance. If you wanted to get rich, you wouldn't get very far in this side of the motorcycle industry.
For those that feel you're on the loosing end of any deal, makin' consistent contact with the company will go a long way in your dealings. Let this thread die.
Guys, I respect you both and your opinions, but this belongs in PMs and emails.
Thanks!
okay, and on that note, I'm gonna lock this thread down.
If you have questions or comments, feel free to email me - jeff@cbr600rr.com pm me 'jeff' or call me 262-993-5416.
You're also very welcome to contact Jim Raschid directly. I spoke to him this morning in fact. And for reference, he is against deleting or locking this topic. I'm doing it because it is not offering anything for anyone at this point.