So I just saw that crazy finish to the round 1 MotoGP race and wonder how many people think that was an intentional move at the last turn?
(Just when ya thought I was gonna say who was involved ;D)
As for the rider that got punted off the track, I have nothing but respect for his great ride all race long and his very proffesional reponse during the interviews after the race. He continues to show he is a real class act and representative of his team and motorcycle brand! :)
racing, is racing
Rossi took the inside, when SG leaned in he bumped rossi and then rossi ran wide. SG had no where to go but wide..
Great race.. I agree with u SG is a class act! You gota agree that rossi has SOME BIG BALLs of STEEL.
I am sure that he did not mean to punt him off. But, it was an irresponsible move. I agree racing is racing and that is how things go. But, it did not make him look very good.
I also agree that the puntee was a lot more restrained than he could have been. Good for him.
Given that their bikes didn't hit (body on bike from what I saw), I think there was room. Also, I think Rossi saved his crash on his knee, but pushed SG so wide that he (SG) had no choice but to go off the track.
SG obviously thought he could intimidate Rossi by going around the outside on the last turn. Not likely, remember last year.
The real question will be how will SG return the favor.
Also, have you read any of the team reports? It seems as though SG slowed down to see where Rossi was strong. I think he should have done that early in the race, not at the end. When he choose to do this at the end of a race, the risk is greater and the recovery time is shorter.
Basically, STOP LETTING ROSSI CATCH UP.
Was a move to win intentional? - Yes.
Did he intentionally push him off the track - probably not.
Was it his only option to win? - I think so.
He did what he had to, to win and I don't think it was THAT dangerous
Quoteracing, is racing
Rossi took the inside, when SG leaned in he bumped rossi and then rossi ran wide. SG had no where to go but wide..
Great race.. I agree with u SG is a class act! You gota agree that rossi has SOME BIG BALLs of STEEL.
QuoteGiven that their bikes didn't hit (body on bike from what I saw), I think there was room. Also, I think Rossi saved his crash on his knee, but pushed SG so wide that he (SG) had no choice but to go off the track.
SG obviously thought he could intimidate Rossi by going around the outside on the last turn. Not likely, remember last year.
I replayed that incident a number of times in slow motion from each of the views shown and you can see that SG's knee is ahead of Rossi's bike when SG turned in, so Rossi was not even in his field of view at turn in. SG was fully ahead of Rossi since the exit of the last turn and was running a defensively inside line for the next turn that is obvious when you look at the black rubber line on the race track from the ariel shot (SG was about 5 feet inside of the normal race line). From the ariel view you can see that after SG was already turning Rossi continued driving straight ahead and ran into SG and didn't really start turning too much at all. Also obvious is that he continued driving out to the outside of the turn after contact with SG and still wasn't turning. It wasn't until about 2-3 feet from the edge of the track that Rossi finally did a squared off turn after SG was off the track without showing signs of struggling to make the turn himself. Looking at the replays, at no time was Rossi's knee on the ground during that turn.
I agree that 'racing is racing' and things happen, but it surely seems that even after using SG as a berm Rossi still didn't begin turning until near the edge of the track, that in my opinion sure made it look intentional to some degree. I've never liked the contacting 'block pass' tactics in moto-x, I think it pretty much shows that your not hacking it and you need some desperation move in order to make up for your lacking. Rossi is incredibly talented, but I think SG was on top of his game today, using that move on SG to compensate (SG was already in an inside defensive position) was pretty shady and not what I think of when I think of a champion.
Here's the link to a video clip showing 3-4 angles of the incident that I found on the WERA BBS.
http://www2.motogp.com/ppv_multimedia2/337/337588_36228.wmv
I stand corrected, I think it was at the end that Rossi's knee touched down (when he was trying to keep it on the track.)
Did he intend to push SG off the track? I don't think so, but I do think it took a while to get the bike slowed down enough to be able to steer it again.
One thing's for sure, I'm not going to try a move like that on anyone I race with.
thanks JB for the link..
I thought I was not crazy.... I knew i saw rossi use is foot vise is knee.
Watched the clip. Sure looked intentional to me. Rossi didn't push him off but he made damn sure he had no where else to go.
whach Rossi's onboard to see Sete's shoulder actually hit Rossi's brake lever forward. And rossi ran wider as a result. Had Sete not leaned in on rossi and made contact rossi would have just took up half of the track and sete would have gone around the outside and won the race.
Rossi didn't punt sete. Sete made contact with Rossi and the result is that Rossi couldn't hold a line and sete ran off.
I think Rossi finally got it turned when he was able to. His onboard show's heavy front brake use late and yes the contact momentary released the brake causing him to run even wider.
But why is his foot down? He new contact was coming and was going to try and keep it up. Some people refuse to lose no matter what it takes, probably the same reason Hayden crashed.
They both intended to win. At least there was nothing as intentionally violent as far as NASCRAP is concerned nowadays. ;D
Rossi has a habit of putting his left foot out just before left turns. He did it the entire race.
IMHO, it was a shoving match. Sete struck first when he turned in tighter to close the door. Rossi struck back by running wide. We will never know what was intentional.
Personally, I don't buy the "I slowed down for Rossi" line. Rossi stalks the leader for most of the race and makes his move in the last few laps. He did it consistently for the last two seasons. It's a great strategy.
QuoteRossi has a habit of putting his left foot out just before left turns. He did it the entire race.
I second that. Rossi had his foot off the whole race.
I also agree with
Quotewatch Rossi's onboard to see Sete's shoulder actually hit Rossi's brake lever forward. And rossi ran wider as a result. Had Sete not leaned in on rossi and made contact rossi would have just took up half of the track and sete would have gone around the outside and won the race.
Rossi didn't punt sete. Sete made contact with Rossi and the result is that Rossi couldn't hold a line and sete ran off.
Quotewhach Rossi's onboard to see Sete's shoulder actually hit Rossi's brake lever forward. And rossi ran wider as a result. Had Sete not leaned in on rossi and made contact rossi would have just took up half of the track and sete would have gone around the outside and won the race.
Rossi didn't punt sete. Sete made contact with Rossi and the result is that Rossi couldn't hold a line and sete ran off.
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wera.com%2Fgraphics%2Fsmilies%2Fstupid.gif&hash=0492994cddd5fe0f0b3fb31b5245b83f617afc67)
Hence trail braking tightens your line by shortening your whellbase. So when SG hit Vale's brake hand I can see it happening. I don't think anyone is that much of an a$$hole.
People see different things. I clearly think Rossi was wrong in this one. Sete had the lead going in and yes closed the door, that's his right since he's in front. Rossi came in hot and hit him.
Whether he meant to punt him off or not we'll never know but Rossi was certainly out of line on this one.
By the way, I'm not a Sete fan or a Rossi detractor, it's just the way I see it.
News flash! Sete hit Rossi! Rossi stuffed himself inside way too late though. Watch the above view video.
http://www2.motogp.com/ppv_multimedia2/337/337588_36228.wmv
You said it right. Rossi stuffed it in way too late. The contact wouldn't have happened had Rossi not done that.
I personally like both Rossi and Sete, actually I find myself rooting for Rossi more out of the fact that he is on the lesser machine against the Honda Army who's sole purpose is to beat him exclusively.
My opinion is based off the common knowledge that it's the passers resposibility to safely overtake the rider getting passed, even when battling. I still believe it was an excessively risky desperation move on Rossi's part attempting to overtake on the inside of Sete who was already holding a tight line for that turn. I certainly hope this sport doesn't come to this type of thing being commonplace, especially when most of our tracks here in the U.S. don't have excessive amounts of run-off area like that required by MotoGP. If it does, I'm afraid Gordy (Wegman Fund) is sadly going to need to supply his services to more riders. :-/
QuotePeople see different things. I clearly think Rossi was wrong in this one. Sete had the lead going in and yes closed the door, that's his right since he's in front. Rossi came in hot and hit him.
Whether he meant to punt him off or not we'll never know but Rossi was certainly out of line on this one.
I'm in 100% agreement with this one.
Sete was ahead of Rossi the whole way. Rossi never got in front of Sete before he made contact. He had no business there, too a gamble, came in too hot and hit Sete. Rossi KNEW Sete was turning in.. it was the apex of the damn turn.
Quote I replayed that incident a number of times in slow motion from each of the views shown and you can see that SG's knee is ahead of Rossi's bike when SG turned in, so Rossi was not even in his field of view at turn in. SG was fully ahead of Rossi since the exit of the last turn and was running a defensively inside line for the next turn that is obvious when you look at the black rubber line on the race track from the ariel shot (SG was about 5 feet inside of the normal race line). From the ariel view you can see that after SG was already turning Rossi continued driving straight ahead and ran into SG and didn't really start turning too much at all. Also obvious is that he continued driving out to the outside of the turn after contact with SG and still wasn't turning. It wasn't until about 2-3 feet from the edge of the track that Rossi finally did a squared off turn after SG was off the track without showing signs of struggling to make the turn himself. Looking at the replays, at no time was Rossi's knee on the ground during that turn.
I agree that 'racing is racing' and things happen, but it surely seems that even after using SG as a berm Rossi still didn't begin turning until near the edge of the track, that in my opinion sure made it look intentional to some degree. I've never liked the contacting 'block pass' tactics in moto-x, I think it pretty much shows that your not hacking it and you need some desperation move in order to make up for your lacking. Rossi is incredibly talented, but I think SG was on top of his game today, using that move on SG to compensate (SG was already in an inside defensive position) was pretty shady and not what I think of when I think of a champion.
Finely, someone who actually watched the vid! Look at the onboard clip SG was still in the lend when they hit and therefore had the right away, GP bikes don't ahve mirrors and riders don't have eyes in teh back of thier heads which is why there are rules that state that the rider in fornt has the right away. Rossi ran right up as SG was turning in when Rossi ran SG off the track. If I were there I would have turned in back to Rossi. There was no respect in the victory! Round One goes to SG!!!
QuoteFinely, someone who actually watched the vid!
I may be speaking for just myself, but I watched it over and over - from all the angles provided - and I'm sure most people on here did too :P ;D
I actually think Sete could've continued by not going for the exact apex and still cut Rossi off - and won. The world may never know.
There are rules that say leader has the right of way? That must be why Robbie Jensen wins so much, he is leading in to turn 1 then everybody follows the rules and no one tries to pass cuz' that is against the rules? Wow dude, try to enforce that retarded idea at the races.
Clean pass...
Rossi rules! ;D
Camera Angles, Who was where, who did what? We could all go back and forth til the end of time. I have only one last thing to add.
Any pass where someone ends up going off the race track is BAD pass!
Gibernau was in the lead, Rossi was making a pass and Gibernau wound up in the dirt.
This is not a demolition derby.
QuoteCamera Angles, Who was where, who did what? We could all go back and forth til the end of time. I have only one last thing to add.
Any pass where someone ends up going off the race track is BAD pass!
Gibernau was in the lead, Rossi was making a pass and Gibernau wound up in the dirt.
This is not a demolition derby.
thats still not true. so if I pass you, you get stood up, ran off the track on your own its a bad pass? What if I gave you 5 feet and you just misjudged?
Why are we judging things based on the outcome rather than what really happened?
How many people have been stuffed here before? how many crashed as a result? Why? because we back off when we get stuffed.
How many years have Sete been racing? If you want to tell me that he didn't know that Rossi was where Rossi was that is completely bull$#%$, if it is true Sete should be sent back to racing school for not being observant of his surroundings.
The fact is Rossi was where Rossi was, there is no reason why sete wouldn't know, hear, thought, guessed, heard that he is there, yet Sete did NOT alter his line in anyway.
There is no right a way in this world. The right a way needs to be respected by others to mean anything.
So if you are going down the highway and a truck tries to merge onto the highway. So you have the right a way, but would you gamble with your life that the truck will stop?
It is a moot point now whether or not the pass is a good one, I think what stands out to me clearly is that Sete is NOT really a great racer because he made a mistake by turning in tight still and had contact with Rossi.
It is the abilitly to deal with suprising situations that makes one great and not just good. Sete is a good racer, but not a great one as he made a really really bad decision under the circumstances and lost the race.
Who can you rely on in a race, in driving to work, in life? only yourself.
So Rossi could have made the dirtest move, but guess what, Sete doesn't have what it takes to win that race, he chose wrong. And if the situation is reversed, Rossi would have surely won the race.
Bash Rossi for a questionable move, sure, but whats more important is that Sete seemed to not posess what it takes to win more races and win championships, to deal with adversity, to be able to deal and work through difficult situations.
So it all looks good for Rossi once again. Sete is just going to be Vice champion of our times, sadly.
QuoteAny pass where someone ends up going off the race track is BAD pass!
I'll second that! Hell, the best pass anyone ever made on me was done by Ed Key. I didn't even have to change my line. I'd left 6 inches of pavement between my knee and the rumble strip, and he damn well used it! There was no contact, but he later apologized for making me lift my knee to make room for him. I just laughed and told him he was a God....
True... if I was being paid millions to win races, I couldn't say I wouldn't have tried the same thing.
Guess what....there isn't a person in this discussion able to ride like either one of these guys so why don't we all just shut the f-ck up and watch the races. ;D ;D ;D ;D
QuoteI'll second that! Hell, the best pass anyone ever made on me was done by Ed Key. I didn't even have to change my line. I'd left 6 inches of pavement between my knee and the rumble strip, and he damn well used it!
Thank you for not discussing the worst pass anyone ever made on you. ;)
IMHO, Gordy and Mike have it right. It was a shameful pass. From his demeanor in the post race interviews, I think even Rossi knew he had pulled a BS move.
R6, I'm trying to understand your point, but I don't. I don't see where SG pulled out of the turn so that it was his fault for running off. Others have even said he leaned into it.
No one can defend against some bonehead plowing into you, intentionally (which I think this clearly was) or by lack of skill ( :-[ sorry K3)
I've always been a Rossi fan. I have a great deal of respect for talent in any endeavor. He just went down a few notches in my book.
Go Nicky.
Quoteso why don't we all just shut the f-ck up and watch the races. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Because it's either this or do my tax return. :( ;)
QuoteBecause it's either this or do my tax return. :( ;)
LOL !!!!!
I thought you were more organized than that. ;) Heck, I have mine figured out in January and all I have to do is wait for all the tax forms to come in so I can send them in. (OK, so I'm a bit anal when it comes to finances).
Good luck and I hope your refund is larger than expected.
;)
Refund? If that were the case I'd have already filed and socked it away for tire money this year!
:'(
QuoteHow many people have been stuffed here before? how many crashed as a result? Why? because we back off when we get stuffed.
I have crashed 4 times in my racing career since '96, 3 of those times I was run off the track, the only other time I had a heavily worn front tire that I should have replaced and I didn't which resulted in a crash while passing for 3rd in the Unlimited Superbike class at a CCS/NASB race in the late 90's. Last spring was the last time I crashed (hadn't crashed in 6 years) and I was physically forced to the edge of the track on a now bad line and no longer had room so I had to run off. This resulted in a wrist injury from the crash and prohibited me from being able to pull the clutch lever so I missed a few events. My complaint is the choice of where that person decided to pass me was very risky and I ultimately paid the price for his risk. Had there actually been adequate run-off area I would have easily returned to the track, but overgrowth and rough terrain 30 feet from the track surface doesn't provide that luxury. This in my opinion was an unnessasary risk on the 1st lap of a 9 lap race. What really ticks me off with this type of pass is that the racer getting stuffed by the excessive risk taker is the 1 that's going to pay the price in the event of a problem. I think it takes a much bigger set to stick the pass on the outside. With Sete protecting the inside it would have slowed his line, I believe Rossi could have had a chance had he taken the truely ballzy outside line instead of the 1 he chose.
I agree with Don about the smurk Rossi had on his face toward the end of his interview, he looked like a little kid that just got away with something. I think many people on both sides of this debate are very curious what will be the result of this situation in future races. I also wonder how much of Sete's response at the interview was guided by Honda, he definately could have responded differently. I feel very confident had Sete not been racing with an injured shoulder Rossi wouldn't have even had a chance of winning that race. :)
Shinya Nakano finished 5th! Impressive!
Kudos to Sete for being as professional as he was in the interview after getting nudged off the track.
Do I think the pass was fair? Yes. This is pro racing, $$ on the line, you gotta expect a few close calls. When it comes down to that last corner, sometimes, you just gotta go "all in." ;)
Was the pass shady? Definitely.
If I were Rossi, and Sete was somebody at a local BHF weekend, would I expect Sete to have "heated" words with me after the race? Absolutely. Luckily, I wouldn't pull something like that... I'd have let Sete take the win. But then it's also easy to say when I don't have big bucks on the line either.
QuoteThank you for not discussing the worst pass anyone ever made on you. ;)
;D
IMO, Sete took the wrong line. He should have known Rossi would be wanting the inside. I would have made damn sure he'd have to of passed me on the grass if he wanted that inside line.
He left the door open and Rossi "ran" through it.
there is no way that s.g didn't see, hear, know that rossi was there.
s.g tried to lay himself and his bike onto rossi.
they were both going for the win and no-one was giving up.
fair pass in my book.
It's ludicrous how many people are using the terms "leaned in on Rossi", "Gibernau HIT Rossi", blah, blah, blah... Gibernau was deep into the turn, almost at full lean BEFORE Rossi even got to the turn!!!! We're talking about tenths of seconds, but regardless, Gib was in the turn and committed BEFORE Rossi was there. Period. Do yourself a favor-- freeze the replay at the exact moment that contact was made. Now cover up SG and see where Rossi's bike is pointing----- OFF THE TRACK!!! At that speed and entry angle, Rossi could not make the turn. Period. He used SG as a berm, still struggled to save it, and kept running wide. I don't think he was trying to force SG off the track, it just took that long to get it back under control.
You can say "that's racing" all day long but that's crap. That's not racing. That was a guy who made a mistake and lost the lead with a couple turns to go and decided that he'd rather crash the both of them then be beaten. It just worked out nicely for Rossi.
"Gibernau has been racing for years and should have expected Rossi to be there?" More crap. Rossi WASN'T there. Regardless, you can't expect that a guy is going to hit you. To equate Rossi's move to a stuff pass is pretty ridiculous. There's a difference between being where a guy wants to be and having him stand the bike up, and waiting till he gets there, colliding with him, then continuing to run wide.
If you support the Rossi move, that's cool. But don't try and justify it as racing. Call a spade a spade and just say that anything goes if it gets you to the finish line first. At least there's no BS to that.
QuoteIMO, Sete took the wrong line. He should have known Rossi would be wanting the inside. I would have made damn sure he'd have to of passed me on the grass if he wanted that inside line.
He left the door open and Rossi "ran" through it.
Well, might as well add my opinion . . .
The replay seems to show SG taking a very early entry into the turn -- I mean, WAY early. He's set to apex at about the begining of the curbing -- if I recall right. So he was very aggressively shutting the door on Rossi. Rossi, it seems, was expecting SG to take his normal line . . . when SG took that very defensive line, Rossi got caught out.
I agree with whoever said that Rossi basically f'ed up/miscalculated. Let us all be thankful that this wasn't the last race of the year with that pass deciding the championship!
QuoteIMO, Sete took the wrong line. He should have known Rossi would be wanting the inside. I would have made damn sure he'd have to of passed me on the grass if he wanted that inside line.
He left the door open and Rossi "ran" through it.
I agree with what you say and what I saw. Sete was just begging for a pass by Rossi... ;D