http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2005/dickerson.asp
"Columnist Brian Dickerson,... is the latest to call for motorcyclists to be de-facto organ donors. What's worse, he suggests that injured motorcyclists not be given medical treatment at all. "
Let me see if I can get the link to work....
link (http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2005/Dickerson.asp)
GAY!
The reason the link won't work is because the auto-censor has changed the link itself. If you click on the link you get a 404 error. Go into the web address and at the end where it say "thingyersen" replace "thingy" with d i c k.
Dawn, could you ask Shawn if we can have the word d i c k removed from the censor list? This is really stupid!
yawn....
This is going around my forum right now, and everyone is writing these nasty emails to the guy. Come on sheeple jump in line and do what the AMA wants you to do...
To avoid retyping it all, I'll cut and paste my humble opinions here...
Hell, send all your emails to me. At some level, I support the guys views.
Look, people without helmets are a burdon on the rest of the tax paying country, insurance companies and people in general. Why the hell should I have to pay for someone to spend the rest of his worthless life in the hospital because he "chose" not to wear a helmet.
here it is... NO GEAR, NO HELMET, NO SYMPATHY.
Don't ask me to cry for you if you knock your melon without a helmet. You made a bad choice. Live with it.
I could go on all day on this topic, but I'll leave it at that. I am PRO-CHOICE, but unfortuately there are too many f***ing idiots out there to make pro-choice feasible. Kinda like drunk driving. We all know it's not wise, so why can't we just "choose" not to? Because it's a danger and a burdon on the rest of society.
Now you ask "how is me not wearing a helmet a danger to you" and I answer... Because when I back my 20' van out of my driveway and end up backing in front of you, causing you to crash and hit your head, you end up dead or worse yet, as a vegetable. your family sues the f*** out of me. Had you had a helmet on, you may very well have sustained very little injury which could have been comfortably handled by my ample $1M insurance. This is how you "endanger" me by not wearing a helmet...
And by the way, writing illegible profanity-laden emails does nothing to support your case. It only strengthens his...
Further comments after my forumites compared him to Hitler...
Guys, the sh1t that you read was taken out of context. You read what the AMA wanted you to read. You didn't get the whole story.
I'm certainly not condoning any lumping of people or the stupid quotes shown, but you're not getting the whole story... Nor did I for that matter, but I feel pretty damned strong about helmets & gear, and when people jump on the righteous bandwagon, I like to get them to really consider all angles...
okay, that's about it... I'll put my flame suit on now...
I haven't sent any e-mail to him, but I HOPE the motorcycle community doesn't send a bunch of profanity laden letters.
I would need to know more information than just the one snippet off the ama web site.
But I have been thinking a lot lately on how I want MY dead corpse taken care of and I KNOW that I do not want someone else deciding that for me.
That's all I'll say.
QuoteDawn, could you ask Shawn if we can have the word d i c k removed from the censor list? This is really stupid!
Yeah - what if I want to post something about my dad and use his name ;)
QuoteBut I have been thinking a lot lately on how I want MY dead corpse taken care of and I KNOW that I do not want someone else deciding that for me.
I'd absolutely give a +1 to that. There's no reason/excuse for the govt to mandate what happens to my organs. That's between me & my family.
My point related elsewhere...
Quoteyawn....
This is going around my forum right now, and everyone is writing these nasty emails to the guy. ÊCome on sheeple jump in line and do what the AMA wants you to do...
When it comes to street riding and riders rights the AMA does far more than any other motorcycle organization. I happen to be a (life) memeber. Every street rider should be.
QuoteLook, people without helmets are a burdon on the rest of the tax paying country, insurance companies and people in general. ÊWhy the hell should I have to pay for someone to spend the rest of his worthless life in the hospital because he "chose" not to wear a helmet.
Could you please show some data supporting the fallacious 'burden on society' arguement? Motorcyclists are more likely to pay their bills than are car drivers. Just by sheer numbers, the 'burden' from car drivers is much larger than for riders, helmets or no helmets. From what I have seen there is no data supporting that motorcyclists are a burden on society.
QuoteNow you ask "how is me not wearing a helmet a danger to you" and I answer... Because when I back my 20' van out of my driveway and end up backing in front of you, causing you to crash and hit your head, you end up dead or worse yet, as a vegetable. Êyour family sues the f*** out of me. ÊHad you had a helmet on, you may very well have sustained very little injury which could have been comfortably handled by my ample $1M insurance. ÊThis is how you "endanger" me by not wearing a helmet...
Couple problems with you arguement.
First, you should not be backing out of your driveway. When I learned to drive a truck, the rule was, back out of traffic, not into it.
Second, the accident was YUOR fault. If YOU had been driving properly, the accident would not have happened. I don't care if your insurance does not fully cover the injuries/law suit and the guy didn't have a helmet. YOU made a poor choice and YOU will have to live with YOUR choice. They may be a burden to you, but that does not make them a burden on society. Besides in our constitution, there is no such thing as rights for a society, only rights of the individual.
Suppose you back out of your drive and kill/injure a pedestrian, is it their fault that they are a burden on you because they were not wearing a helmet/protective gear to protect them from your poor decision making?
QuoteI'm certainly not condoning any lumping of people or the stupid quotes shown, but you're not getting the whole story... ÊNor did I for that matter, but I feel pretty damned strong about helmets & gear, and when people jump on the righteous bandwagon, I like to get them to really consider all angles...
I believe in wearing proper riding gear (I ride between 10,000 and 14,000 commuting miles per year,don't have time to ride on weekends/take trips due to racing). I also believe in freedom and personal responsibility. (maybe that is why I tend to vote for Libertarians) I don't like the use of the burden on society arguement (because it does not exist), and I really don't like it when a motorcyclist uses the arguement. It only gives fuel to people/groups that do not like motorcycles (such as the IIHS). It was the arguement that was used in the late 80s when a Missouri Senator (US Senate, not state senate) was going to introduce a law banning sportbikes. Thanks to the AMA, it never saw the light of day. Imagine how much fun racing would be using Goldwings and cruisers.
Thanks for letting me vent, besides you had your asbestos undies on already.
assume that a rider crashes with a helmet on and someone removes it after the fact. There is no way to tell other than the reporting official as to whether or not it was on the riders head.
I heard about a bunch of proposals out here in CA for helmet law revocation. They wanted to make it a law that your insurance and health care would basically get denied. The whole thing suddenly came to a halt when the talk of having the same law apply to seat belts.
QuoteWhen it comes to street riding and riders rights the AMA does far more than any other motorcycle organization. I happen to be a (life) memeber. Every street rider should be.
Totally agree. However, you have to admit, the post on the AMA website was bits and pieces which could easily sway a person one way or the other. Publishings like this are very similar to the Rodney King incident. We saw a 90 seconds of a 9 minute tape. We saw the 90 seconds the media wanted us to see to provoke a reaction. The AMA is did the exact same thing here. They even started the article setting the tone in a negative manner with the "here we go again" theme.
QuoteCould you please show some data supporting the fallacious 'burden on society' arguement? Motorcyclists are more likely to pay their bills than are car drivers. Just by sheer numbers, the 'burden' from car drivers is much larger than for riders, helmets or no helmets. From what I have seen there is no data supporting that motorcyclists are a burden on society.
Sure. I will dig some up. I probably can't do it until next week, but I will. Bottom line, when a person is injured and needs long-term care or care which exceeds their medical insurance, it falls back on the state and federal government. They don't just 'stop' treating people. They do it while the government foots the bill. And since the government earns a living through you & me, that is what I equate to a 'societal burdon'. Is it a monsterous one? No. But it's there nonetheless, and needlessly in my opinion.
QuoteCouple problems with you arguement.
First, you should not be backing out of your driveway. When I learned to drive a truck, the rule was, back out of traffic, not into it.
Second, the accident was YUOR fault. If YOU had been driving properly, the accident would not have happened. I don't care if your insurance does not fully cover the injuries/law suit and the guy didn't have a helmet. YOU made a poor choice and YOU will have to live with YOUR choice. They may be a burden to you, but that does not make them a burden on society. Besides in our constitution, there is no such thing as rights for a society, only rights of the individual.
So someone who sustains arguably more injury than necessary should be my responsibility? I know that it is, but I have a tough time buying it because it is avoidable..
Brian, you're from the same area. Watch the news in the summer and watch the bleeding heart kids who are bawling because their idiot parents went for a ride on their harley and got tangled up with whatever and are now drooling all over themselves because they didn't have helmets on. I'm sorry, I don't have sympathy for this.
QuoteSuppose you back out of your drive and kill/injure a pedestrian, is it their fault that they are a burden on you because they were not wearing a helmet/protective gear to protect them from your poor decision making?
No. They're not. Different scenario. A walking pedestrian has little in the line of equipment which will make such a profound difference as a helmet has to a motorcycle rider.
QuoteI believe in wearing proper riding gear (I ride between 10,000 and 14,000 commuting miles per year,don't have time to ride on weekends/take trips due to racing). I also believe in freedom and personal responsibility. (maybe that is why I tend to vote for Libertarians) I don't like the use of the burden on society arguement (because it does not exist), and I really don't like it when a motorcyclist uses the arguement. It only gives fuel to people/groups that do not like motorcycles (such as the IIHS). It was the arguement that was used in the late 80s when a Missouri Senator (US Senate, not state senate) was going to introduce a law banning sportbikes. Thanks to the AMA, it never saw the light of day. Imagine how much fun racing would be using Goldwings and cruisers.
Okay, I'm totally with you, Pro gear, Pro Choice, Pro personal responsibility. HOWEVER, the last option here "pro personal responsibility" seems to be lacking in many individuals.
I can appreciate your opinion on the societal burden argument, but I personally don't see a way around it. Where is the difference between this issue and the seatbelt law? It should be my choice, but the government recognized the burden and enacted a law accordingly.
On a side note, Govt officials and certain groups come up with these ridiculous, off-the-wall rants about banning sportbikes, mandatory organ donation, etc, which I find appalling. However, the helmet argument is one I can't understand and can't get behind... But that's just me.
QuoteThanks for letting me vent, besides you had your asbestos undies on already.
Any time... I appreciate the dialogue.
Since my post was too long...
On a final note, I'm not against the AMA. I'm against this type of tactic to sway an opinion and generate an outcry.
I'm all for always wearing your helmet...
However, I don't agree with the burden statement...
If that was the case, surely lives could be saved if we all wore helmets in cars. So, lets mandate that. If you're not wearing a helmet in a car and you're injured, then you should be denied care as well.
QuoteIf that was the case, surely lives could be saved if we all wore helmets in cars. So, lets mandate that. If you're not wearing a helmet in a car and you're injured, then you should be denied care as well.
heck, don't even go that far. What about if people did not receive health care if they were not wearing a seat belt and they got hurt? Wearing seat belts is a law in most states, but they would not deny you health coverage if you didn't!
Quoteheck, don't even go that far. What about if people did not receive health care if they were not wearing a seat belt and they got hurt? Wearing seat belts is a law in most states, but they would not deny you health coverage if you didn't!
I agree with you.
My point was more to say that lives could be saved if we wore helmets in cars, so by not forcing us to, they are increasing the costs for all of us...
It's just a question of how far you want to go with them deciding what's best for us...
I believe New Mexico started this latest fiasco about 18 months ago. They introduced legislation to turn ALL motorcycle fatalities into COMPLETE organ donors, head to toe, whatever was needed at the hospital could be taken. That legislation was shot down. However, it gave other morons in government some reeeaaalllly stupid ideas about motorcyclists and how we should be legislated upon.
I generally do not like the way the AMA dramatizes this stuff, but they are the only ones standing up for all of us in the public and government's eye. There's so much stupid crap going on in government right now...
Tell me how a seatbelt law for cars is different from a helmet law for motorcycles...
On insurance companies covering and paying out...
In 1996-2000 when I was street riding, my insurance company USAA, gave me an option of limiting my coverage if I were to be injured or had an accident without a DOT approved helmet on for a substantial discount. It was a no brainer...
Likewise, most insurance companies will NOT cover you if you get into an accident while intoxicated (or commiting a crime, etc).
So what happens when a person runs out of insurance or insurance doesn't cover them?
Do I support some idiot saying we all must be mandatory organ donors? Not unless I get claim on his kids kidneys. Certainly I don't.
Is it realistic to think that treatment would be denied for the intoxicated/non-seat belted/helmetless? Absolutely not.