Motorcycle Racing Forum

Racing Discussion => Racing Discussion => Topic started by: Steviebee on March 02, 2005, 07:11:18 AM

Title: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Steviebee on March 02, 2005, 07:11:18 AM
I notice the Fastest MGP times are only about 3 secs faster then the WSB times.
WOW  i guess i thought there would be a bigger difference!

I thought the motoGP bikes were 350 lbs with 240 HP.
Im guessing that the WSB bikes are 370 lbs with 220 HP.

I cant find any top speeds but the WSB were 200mph.
Comments ?  
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Super Dave on March 02, 2005, 09:00:30 AM
It's my standard analogy...
HP won't really make the time.

The GP bikes are probably spinning in 6th.
 
Hard just to get them to hook up.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: tigerblade on March 02, 2005, 09:27:44 AM
QuoteThe GP bikes are probably spinning in 6th.
 
Hard just to get them to hook up.

I'm sure they are.  Colin Edwards' articles from when he was riding the Aprilia said they had such a huge problem just keeping the front wheel on the ground.  If it wasn't the front in the air, it was the rear spinning up like crazy.  Lots of power to get through that small contact patch!
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Super Dave on March 02, 2005, 10:48:34 AM
Even a production based GSXR1000 will spin the rear on the banking at Daytona...
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Steviebee on March 02, 2005, 11:03:06 AM
Considering the expense of a MotoGP bike vs a Suberbike.

I was thinking the lap times would be faster.  Heck a Superbike could qualify for a MGP race.  and prably not get lapped at Qatar.  I figure Corser could proally beat the WCM and Proton GP bikes.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: tigerblade on March 02, 2005, 11:31:44 AM
3 seconds is a pretty significant amount of time in top-level racing.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: TZDeSioux on March 02, 2005, 11:49:04 AM
As of today, the fastest lap at at the Qatar test is 1:57.69 by Tamada and Capirossi. The fastest lap of the WSBK race was 2:01.244 by Corser. That is already over 4 seconds faster. I imagine the Motogp guys will be even faster during the actual race at Qatar.  If that's not significant enough for you.. then maybe you should check out the differences in laptimes for Factory AMA Superbikes vs the factory superstock bikes at a track like Daytona as well as the cost differences between them. Besides Also take into account how slippery that track is. I would think that HUGE horsepower and a sandy track don't go too well together
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Super Dave on March 02, 2005, 11:53:57 AM
Quote. I would think that HUGE horsepower and a sandy track don't go too well together

Sounds like Daytona...
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: EM JAY on March 02, 2005, 12:29:15 PM
QuoteSounds like Daytona...
Snif....Daytona, where I was Supposta be leaving for today... :'(   Enjoying my stress & drama at work instead... >:(
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Steviebee on March 02, 2005, 06:01:32 PM
well im guessing the Honda MGP is well over a million.

Whats the Corna gixer  100 grand ?

10x the cost and only 3.3% improvment in lap times.

Im still impressed.  Consider a (I hate to compare with car racing)  Rolex sports car vs an F1 car.  The F1 car has 1/2 the lap time.  and were talking a 200 grand car vs a 5 million car.

Err on Daytona   Top speeds
193 mph(disalvo SS R1)
194 mph Hodgson  SBK Duck

lap times (i couldnt find the best but these are from 1 session)
Miguel Duhamel, Hon CBR1000RR Superbike, 1:40.987
2. Neil Hodgson, Duc 999F05 Superbike, 1:41.027
6. Tommy Hayden, Kaw ZX-10R Superstock, 1:42.084
7. Jason Pridmore, Suz GSX-R1000 Superstock, 1:42.150

AMA superbikes are what 370 lbs ? 200 HP
SS bikes  are same weight ?  180-190 HP

100 grand (or less) for the SBK 30 grand for the SS bikes ??  maybee more ?

and last year the top SS 600's were faster the the top 600 FX bikes.

I still find it mind boggling that the utmost hightech best bike out there (MGP) wouldnt lap a produciton based bike (SBK) in a race.


guess im alone on this one.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Steviebee on March 02, 2005, 06:05:38 PM
QuoteIt's my standard analogy...
HP won't really make the time.


Thats why i havent spent any money on motor mods.   I want to wait till i can do the time !!
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: TZDeSioux on March 02, 2005, 07:14:10 PM
Quotewell im guessing the Honda MGP is well over a million.

Whats the Corna gixer  100 grand ?

10x the cost and only 3.3% improvment in lap times.


The works forks and shock probably cost a 100 grand. I bet the factory world superbikes cost around 250k if you could even put a price on it. I wonder how much a factory team would spend to make their riders 3.3% faster.  ;)
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Super Dave on March 03, 2005, 03:36:24 AM
Yeah, I know you could LEASE Ducati Superbikes in the Mid '90's for about $80k.  

I'd bet the lease on a MGP bike is in the millions.

The cool forks on superbikes are probably $65k to $125k, if you could get them.  And you can't.  The AMA is not like NASCAR where parts are restricted so that they are obtainable by teams.  The outcomes are more or less determined by the manufacturer teams...hence, AMA racing will never be as popular or financially viable for the cottage industry of racers, tuners, etc.

Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Steviebee on March 03, 2005, 04:55:33 AM
Quoteif you could get them.  And you can't.  

Thats my big beef about AMA.  

Yes you could get them, you can "claim" them.  (if its still in the rules)  atleast motors/ frames/  i think forks and shocks still.  but no one will do it for fear of they will never get a factory ride.  (even though they never will anyways.)

Same thing with tires,  you never could go as fast even if you had the same bike as Malidin, Hes got those nifty hand built Race tires that drop a sec off his race time that you cant get.  Thats how Hodgson won his WSB title,  and after that the went to produciton race tires,  best move they ever made imo.

What i remember seeing written ive heard that its 14 mill to run a MotoGP team for the year, and 1.5 mill to run an AMA team a year.

Now you guys are bumming me out,  I was figuring on spending a 100 grand on a superbike and go as fast as maladin !!!   ;D ;D
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: spyderchick on March 03, 2005, 05:12:03 AM
QuoteNow you guys are bumming me out,  I was figuring on spending a 100 grand on a superbike and go as fast as maladin !!!   ;D ;D

Dude, if you actually had 100K, you could so easily buy every #1 plate CCS has to offer. (I mean, that's what evryone SAYS it takes). :o ;)

Nah, seriously, This is where it gets to be a business for everyone involved in the AMA and at the world level. It's about the exposure, winning, and using that to market product. Pivateers will always be at a disadvantage.

We were actually thinking to make the racing closer at Daytona this year they should have them put restrictor plates on the bikes for the 200. I mean, it works for Crashcar.  ::)  
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: tigerblade on March 03, 2005, 06:02:38 AM
Quote10x the cost and only 3.3% improvment in lap times.
top 600 FX bikes.

I still find it mind boggling that the utmost hightech best bike out there (MGP) wouldnt lap a produciton based bike (SBK) in a race.


Just remember that as you start to push the performance envelope, it gets exponentially more difficult/more expensive to improve even further.  10 mph is much more difficult and costly when it's the difference between 190-200 mph than it is between 150-160 mph.  Aerodynamics become more and more important and you can't always just throw more HP at the problem.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: spyderchick on March 03, 2005, 06:24:06 AM
QuoteJust remember that as you start to push the performance envelope, it gets exponentially more difficult/more expensive to improve even further.  10 mph is much more difficult and costly when it's the difference between 190-200 mph than it is between 150-160 mph.  Aerodynamics become more and more important and you can't always just throw more HP at the problem.


Exactly, that's what they do in F1. The wind tunnel testing becomes one of the major factors in development across the board. I'm just wondering when they will start to play with downforce as an aspect of M/C design. Could make bikes look really cool or really really ugly.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: tigerblade on March 03, 2005, 06:28:01 AM
QuoteExactly, that's what they do in F1. The wind tunnel testing becomes one of the major factors in development across the board. I'm just wondering when they will start to play with downforce as an aspect of M/C design. Could make bikes look really cool or really really ugly.

Did you read the article on the vortex generators they were playing around with on the Tularis?  Interesting stuff!
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: spyderchick on March 03, 2005, 07:20:13 AM
No I didn't. Do you have a link or can you tell me what magazine published the article? Sounds intriguing.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: tigerblade on March 03, 2005, 07:29:44 AM
QuoteNo I didn't. Do you have a link or can you tell me what magazine published the article? Sounds intriguing.

Found this so far but it's not the article I read.  I think the one I remember was in Roadracing World?

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:e3uJPdh__YMJ:www.mae.cemr.wvu.edu/news/news-details.php%3Fitem%3D192+vortex+generators,+tularis&hl=en

Here's a general article on what vortex generators are:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/q0009.shtml
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Super Dave on March 03, 2005, 07:39:38 AM
QuoteYes you could get them, you can "claim" them

Ha, Ha!

The Showa teams all claim each others stuff so they are the only one's that can play...
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: spyderchick on March 03, 2005, 08:09:22 AM
QuoteFound this so far but it's not the article I read.  I think the one I remember was in Roadracing World?

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:e3uJPdh__YMJ:www.mae.cemr.wvu.edu/news/news-details.php%3Fitem%3D192+vortex+generators,+tularis&hl=en

Here's a general article on what vortex generators are:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/q0009.shtml


Very cool science.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: TZDeSioux on March 03, 2005, 09:41:05 AM
Tamada at 1:56.63 at Qatar. Over 2 seconds faster than the track record set by Checa last year. I guess he likes them michelins.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Protein Filled on March 03, 2005, 11:04:54 AM
7/10th's faster than the 2nd best times! That is impressive! Cool to see Melandri up there as well!


Also to note that 2nd to 6th were all separated by less than 5/100th's!!

BTW Rev, how come Biaggi is all the way down in 7th place? Must be that crappy Factory Honda that he has this year, huh!?
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: spyderchick on March 03, 2005, 11:12:15 AM
oooooo, you just been served! :o ;D
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: Old808 on March 03, 2005, 11:15:43 AM
I read somewhere Tamada used a Q tire.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: diesel748 on March 03, 2005, 11:18:25 AM
The Rev is always ready for a battle (break'n) and so is his crew nobody is serving anybody.
Don't stop the body rock!!!!!!!
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: TZDeSioux on March 03, 2005, 11:39:39 AM
QuoteBTW Rev, how come Biaggi is all the way down in 7th place? Must be that crappy Factory Honda that he has this year, huh!?

I cheer for Tamada this year so shaddap your boca raton cabron!  :)
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: TZDeSioux on March 03, 2005, 11:40:40 AM
QuoteThe Rev is always ready for a battle (break'n) and so is his crew nobody is serving anybody.
Don't stop the body rock!!!!!!!

Edgar is a biter.
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: tigerblade on March 03, 2005, 12:04:21 PM
QuoteThe Rev is always ready for a battle (break'n) and so is his crew nobody is serving anybody.
Don't stop the body rock!!!!!!!

(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hotgames.it%2Fcgi-bin%2FImages%2Fbreak%25201%2520141x200.jpg&hash=e5de74f6722d20e0ae4a0c58dfb0af1649dcb4e9)
Title: Re: motoGP test times from qatar
Post by: TZDeSioux on March 03, 2005, 12:09:38 PM
Quote(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hotgames.it%2Fcgi-bin%2FImages%2Fbreak%25201%2520141x200.jpg&hash=e5de74f6722d20e0ae4a0c58dfb0af1649dcb4e9)

That's Ozone and Special K  :)