Hey any of you remember who did the stunt show at Blackhawk in 2004? It was put on over the lunch hour. Yea, yea, yea, stunters...blah blah blah, be nice! 8) What did or do you all think about it? What if it was bringing a *positive* message? Thanks in advance.
Don't think for a minute stunters on the highways and rural roads are sending anything but negative image. As for "Vertical Mischief" at B-hawk last year, they aren't as polished as D-Aces had been in the past. Pretty repetitious as far as the tricks they filled lunch with, wheelies-burnouts-stoppie-longer wheelie figure eight burnout-longer stoppie-slower wheelie..etc..etc...etc.
I am good friends from the 2 guys who made up D-Aces, who presently are working apart on the stunter junk, they have 3 videos that they tour the country and sell and promote. Dan has told me that people who are stunter fans have said they like the street stunts better than the controlled track stuff.
Good impression? If you are on a highway discussing if your 16-18yr. old can buy a sportbike and a guy goes by standing on his seat with a video crew in a car swerving around to get "the shot" at say,70mph, where will your decision go from there? Ask a dealer that loves motorcycles and you will him say these same things.
QuotePretty repetitious as far as the tricks they filled lunch with
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv405%2FSpeedballer%2Fbaby_crying.jpg&hash=d97fba1c164f284329d520a8cf733a89bddc8617)
Nothing more repititous than going round and round on the track. Your the exception though... I getz thrillz watching you (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstlriderz.com%2Fhtml%2Femoticons%2FYawn.gif&hash=c20b5ce6673231c4c9a01a7f4c06c7533de4a099) ;) :D
Thanks man, I'm with you on the "street stunter" stuff too, BUT, I still watch and occasionally will buy a video myself. The stuff I've been seeing has been getting old tho. What if it was a real tight show, new stuff, and someone had info to pass out and maybe someone to preech a bit....would sound like a "do as I say not as I do" speech tho right?
Vertical Mischief, how did they get the spot at lunch to do there thang anyway? Thru CCS?
Yea it was Vertical Mischief there. PRetty much rode with all of them (Ryan, Phatty, Joe, Dan (not D-ace Dan) and neal before he got a bike but always had his truck) on street rides at one time or another before they started stunting. Hell I took pictures of them at a stunt comp on Lake Koshgenong in January. Kinda wierd seeing sportbikes doing wheelies on ice. Some of the pics I took will be in Super Streetbike. ;D
Thorny I do agree that doing on the highway is sending a neg image. Kneedraggin on the street isnt much better, but it doesnt draw as much attention to it as much as some kid passing someone in a car on one wheel. How many times have you been asked by a kid in a car to "drag a knee?" ;D
I've hashed it out with VMC in the past. Its not that they did stunts that bothered me, it was when they did it on Milton Ave that did. And it wasnt just them doing it a couple years ago. Almost every freaking newbie I see in town now yanks one. VMC has been trying to keep practice on parking lots and not streets. Too bad theres really no place that will just let them use a lot on teh weekends when no ones there.
Now you cant ride in Janesville without being followed, harrassed, screamed at and threatened while on a sportbike. And thats just from the police, they havent started swerving at bikers like a fre "citizens" have here. >:(
Mike I think they are in contact with Mike Irwin (track owner). From what Ryan said at Lake Koshgenong, they will be doing another one at the AMA Road America lunch again.
Round and round a race track is a competition.
A competition where there is a winner and looser based on who crosses the finish line first. Yeah, it's repeticious, but execution is paramount in getting it done the fastest. Risk can involved slower times, or faster times.
Stunna...
If were talking about a competition...it's a points system. A points system based on someones opinion.
It's the difference between speed skating and figure skating. Show me something different.
Most of the stunter videos I've seen involve riding sportbikes in traffic doing stunts.
I race a sportbike, but I don't execute how I race outside of a controlled enviornment. I believe that the proliferation of stunt actions on the street only server to place a stigma on me as a motorcyclist, let alone a racer. Hey, the public recognizes "crotch rockets"...
Great, so now when a rider goes to a company and says, "Hey, help me do this thing, and I'll advertise for you..." this CEO is thinking..."Do I want my hard work on the side of one of those rocket things...I saw some punk riding one down the interstate past a mini van full of Nuns and Newborns..."
I don't see where it has any place in the main stream. I don't see where it should have any place at a competition. You don't see "Ultimate Figure Skaters" competing at half time between short track speed skating events.
Replies?
QuoteReplies?
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
On they street they are dangerous punks....on the track they are repititous and boring :-/
QuoteRound and round a race track is a competition
It is still pretty boring to watch unless it's your buddies out there, or watching the fast club experts sliding around.
Flame away, twinkies ;D
I race for fun, and stuntride for fun...period!
Well, on the track...
Use my terminology... A half time show of figure skaters at a speed skating event. Not sure where the cross market is. I don't necessarily think the people that are in to hard core stunting are into road racing...and visa versa...
I liked D-Aces because they would do some things that seemed different to me. I'm on the outside, so you're gonna have to show me something new. I've seen really fast wheelies, fast stoppies. The Cory started doing some 12 O'clock slow burnouts...I liked that. Hadn't seen it. New to me. I've seen people fall down...that isn't new.
Cory was doing some brakies that he turned into a 180 at the end. I liked that to. Neither of these examples would be done on an interstate system. The precision and body control I can appreciate.
Competition...
Ok, so some people are fun to watch.
But Jesse Janisch and Kevin Hanson and I can go and watch a cool amateur race. Ain't no top experts, but you can see people working, making mistakes...all about perspective.
Dangerous punks...
The videos prove it. Show me that riding down the interstate at the speed limit, below, or above isn't "punkish"... That's supposed to be practice? I have to go rent a track, go to a track day, or actually wait for practice to work my craft. Or buy a dirt bike, etc.
Everybody's been a punk once or twice in their life.
Yeah...
But most of us didn't video tape it, make DVD's, and then try to develop a marketing group for it...
Making sense?
QuoteFlame away, twinkies ;D
Okay, here goes...
When I see stunters...oh, 'scuse me
stunnas, I am very impressed with how graceful they are with their machines.
Very fluid...almost like slow motion...moving as one...
Beautiful...graceful in an almost efeminate sort of way...kind of like...
those ladies in the swimming pool doing coordinated water ballet...
those young buffed men with their pretty helmets...tattooed bodies with colorful designs just like the ladies with their flowery rubber bathing caps...yeah, that's it....
They remind me of a freakin' water ballet!!
:P
;D
Addendum (ooh, a lawyer word):
The above is meant as a joke. Some of my best friends are stunnas, okay they're not.
Okay, I don't have any friends.
Okay, I've exceeded my two beer limit. G'nite.
I Love motorcycles!
I love riding, racing, watching, learning, wrenching, competing and anything and everthing that has to do with motorcycles.
Isn't that the great thing about motorcyles? How there are so many different variations of the sport?
Motorcycling has always (SINCE DAY ONE) been a potentially hazardous sport! Since the first hooligan Nitwit put a motor in a bicycle frame!
How about Board Track Racing? That was outlawed!
How many different variations of motorcycling can we think of at this time? Lets See... Hmmmmm???
Road Racing, Flat Track, TT, Motocross, Trials, Hillclimb, Ice Racing, Hair and hound, Motorcycle Couriers in London, Endurance, Supermoto, Baha raing, Trail Riding, Touring, sportbikes, Cruisers, Choppers, Speedway Racing.... Just going out for a ride with your friends riding...
We all can't forget the infamous hardcore bikers, the HARLEY RIDERS of the 60's and 70's... Those guys are rebels!!! Those Damn Bike Gangs! Hells Angels! Outlaws!!!
OH THOSE STUNTERS, OH NO :o They are such a discrace to the motorcycle community. ???
In reality, no they are not a discrace. Motorcycles and riding motorcycles has always been a frowned upon and dangerous activity thru history for the general population, But loved so much by the people who ride.
Stunters, hardcore streetbike riders, are part of the motorcycle community and culture. Its a form, a variation of the sport. Love it or hate, the variation, just like the rest of the variations of motorcycling I listed above are not going away or anywhere from the sport.
I like watching stunters and doing my little bit of stunting just as much as any other style of the sport.
You know what would be more cool than a stunt show at Lunch on a CCS weekend. Some Trials riders performing some acrobatic acts... No NO, you know what would even be better????? Set up a huge Ramp and If Metzger Jumped over the registration Builing on his dirtbike. Wait, its easier to just have "STUNNAS"
I Say Let Em Ride!!!!! ;)
Quote...
Dangerous punks...
The videos prove it. Show me that riding down the interstate at the speed limit, below, or above isn't "punkish"... That's supposed to be practice? I have to go rent a track, go to a track day, or actually wait for practice to work my craft. Or buy a dirt bike, etc.
Isn't that how Nascar got started? Only on the back roads and it was delivering hooch, but the same thing. Then they marketed their brand of hillbilly hijinx, (yes, I used the word "hijinx"), and over half a century later they are the darlings of the couch potato crowd. Brilliant!
Skate boarding, snowboarding, drifting, MOTORCYCLES, dangerous stuff, don't let the kiddies play. Now they're all budding industries.
Do I think these guys should be out on the highway in traffic? No, but they are skilled, and it can be marketed. Anything that will make a business a buck, is fair game.
I've found it ironic that the Harley crowd has become mainstream and the sportbike crowd have become the rebels. :-/
QuoteYeah...
But most of us didn't video tape it, make DVD's, and then try to develop a marketing group for it...
Making sense?
What do you want me to say Dave?
Do you want me to say stunters are the nicest people I have met? They are not.
Do you want me to say they are the most productive people I have met? They are not.
Do you want me to say they are the most honest people I have met? They are not.
Do you want me to say that 75% of the ones I met wouldn't stab you in the back w/out blinking if it benefited them? I cannot.
Do you want me to say of the ones I know that they arent screwing each others girfriends behind each others backs? Can't say that either.
Most of the ones I know are the most dishonest people I have met :(
Of the ones I have come to know, I can't say really anything nice about 75% of them... on a character level.
My curse it that I love to ride wheelies...and when you sleep with dogs you get fleas.
Skill level? I will argue until I am blue in the face on their side.
Streetstunting? I have never claimed it is good for public consumption or not dangerous.
Character and moral compasses? You will never get me to defend them as a whole. Individually? a few.
There are some great guys who stunt, but there are plenty more that are dirtbags....imho
Where am I going w/ this? Nowhere, just keeping it real and unbiased w/ my opins.
Bear in mind, I am talking about real stunters...not the guys ridding around poping wheelies. True 'live the life' stunters.
I cant wait to start racing again and get away from the stunt scene, cause it really aint my scene as I am finding out.
Fair enough response?
I personally think watching stunts on the track is boring...
Watching them ride a wheelie on 270 while changing lanes and stuff is cool! 8)
QuoteI personally think watching stunts on the track is boring...
Watching them ride a wheelie on 270 while changing lanes and stuff is cool! 8)
You're a squid >:(
QuoteWhat do you want me to say Dave?
Do you want me to say stunters are...
Fair enough response?
I think my point is being missed...
I could care less if they are dishonest, etc.
That's a personal problem. I'm sure that there are some guys that might be honest.
Main stream...
People are individuals, not items.
You can buy a H-D...but it doesn't make you a biker. Some of the YUBies are finding that out.
You can own a sportbike, but it doesn't make one a racer...road race or drag. It's just a bike.
As for the gangs of Harley's....
All that stuff started with some gang stuff from the 50's...and a movie that glamorized an incident in California, I believe...the movie had Marlon Brando in it...and they rode Brit bikes..."THE WILD ONES"...
Stunting is fine...
But it doesn't belong on roads.
Racing is fine...
But it doesn't belong on roads.
Gary Rothwell...he was fun to watch. Had some different things he did. Had some attitude, but it was fun rather than dark and misunderstood with tattoos.
He really didn't practice. He just did...and they had closed course competitions to do it...not in a roundabout in the middle of London.
Board track racing. Closed course competition. Where Brando grew up, there was a huge board track in town. Go to American Racer I. It was good money for the riders, but the boards would go through arms and all. Was hard on the riders. i think the opportunities otherwise were better in dirt track, and the depression, changed all that.
Football is hard on the players. Most don't make it, they have shorter lives, and they have injuries that will be with them for their whole life. Can make money, but there is risk. Remember, most don't make it in the pros. Didn't outlaw it.
Sport...
Yeah, riding a motorcycle is riding a motorcycle. It's glorified as a sport, but sport is really more finite, isn't it...
How did Hemmingway put it...There are three sports: Bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor racing. The rest are just games.
Racing...sport.
Riding a motorcycle, while it is a lifestyle for some, I wouldn't call it a sport based on that idea.
i don't have anything against people doing stunts. That's their life style. But because it's done on a motorcycle, it gets jammed down a motorcyclists neck...
Case in point. I was hired to go to the Sears Point AMA National. I set up an interview with the track announcer for our riders. Met all the other guys that were hired by the track for announcing etc. Rain plagued the whole program. Anyway, a stunna team was hired as a half time show.
Wasn't a Gary Rothwell kind of guy. They weren't very entertaining. But why were paying racing spectators getting it jammed in their sight?
Hey, there are lots of stick and ball games, but we don't have a quarter of basketball at half time between the Colts and Jets.
Anyway, no one really even bothered to watch. Everything just kind of went on as though they weren't there. And what kind of message does having a stunt program send to a racing fan that is not a motorcyclist?
NASCAR.
There was racing before NASCAR.
Guys that had other aversions ended up getting involved.
Would we like to talk about the drug dealers that are involved in motorcycle pro drag racing? There was drag racing before them.
Maybe this is the difference...
Success in racing involves racing in closed course competition.
Success in stunting involves doing your thing in video and selling it.
Similar to a screen actor.
Yeah, it's all about entertainment, but when the green flag drops...
Some people may not like Randy Moss, but, hey, he executes. Same for Mladin.
If I were in charge of the CCS schedule, I would eliminate expert GTU and GTO on Saturday. Then on Sunday i would eliminate the expert Supersport races. With the time saved we could have a really neat wheelie show. People could ride wheelies on bicycles, CRF 50's, 4 wheelers, top fuel dragsters, and anything else people can wheelie.
Lets face it, whats the sence watching guys like Super Dave, Benji, Denning, Greg Kritz and others rail around the track in circles.
I want to see people ride wheelies with their feet over the clip-ons.
I think Benji and Greg are gone...
And I suck at wheelies...
Quote(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv405%2FSpeedballer%2Fbaby_crying.jpg&hash=d97fba1c164f284329d520a8cf733a89bddc8617)
Nothing more repititous than going round and round on the track. Your the exception though... I getz thrillz watching you (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstlriderz.com%2Fhtml%2Femoticons%2FYawn.gif&hash=c20b5ce6673231c4c9a01a7f4c06c7533de4a099) ;) :D
No Eric... trust me, these guys sucked.
I haven't stunted in a good 2 years... and bet I could still stunt circles around them.
How in the heck did this thread turn into an anti-stunna thread, anyways???
QuoteHow in the heck did this thread turn into an anti-stunna thread, anyways???
Cause it's on a racing forum...
QuoteI want to see people ride wheelies with their feet over the clip-ons.
All ya got to do is ask ;)
QuoteI think my point is being missed...
I think you are missing my point...
You wanna know why these guys are busting ass in traffic? You wanna know why they are filming all of this stuff? You wanna know why they are hurting motorcycle's image?
Then reread everything I previously posted.
They are doing this stuff you despise, because they don't care!!!!
I'll defend stunting... I won't defend stunters.
I say we all stop being so concerned with what others do and go to church more often so that we can all become better people.
Amen
QuoteI say we all stop being so concerned with what others do and go to church more often so that we can all become better people.
Some dancing would be good too!
QuoteThey are doing this stuff you despise, because they don't care!!!!
I'll defend stunting... I won't defend stunters.
I'm on the other side.
I'll defend stunters, but I won't defend stunting outside of a safe place to do it.
I have to rent or sublet track time to teach. To race you need to do the same.
Stunting is in the same boat.
Racing on the street isn't racing. Stunting on the street just serves to make it all worse for anyone with a sporting motorcycle. I know they don't care. I don't understand, and others too, why some segments of motorcycling give it the kudos it does...
The guys at Blackhawk were pretty bad. I saw Dan formerly of D-Aces there, but he didn't look real impressed with what the guys he was with were doing.
I paid for track time.
Would the insurance we paid for with our entry fees pay for their problems? Could have given a better payout for some race...
QuoteI'm on the other side.
I'll defend stunters, but I won't defend stunting outside of a safe place to do it.
My bad, let me rephrase and clarify.
I will defend the skill involved in stunting, not stunters.
QuoteMy bad, let me rephrase and clarify.
I will defend the skill involved in stunting, not stunters.
So, where did you state that before?
Stunting is a skill.
They were not very skilled.
No matter. It's a game of arbitrary ratings, when in competition...
Unless you're talking about the fastest wheelie...
Unless you're talking about the longest brakie...
Where did anyone say a stunna wasn't skilled?
I have dealt with these goofballs in the shops here in Janesville, as they work the parts counters in 2 shops. VMC seems to be an arrogant crew that really don't know much about motorcycles overall; that's my limited experience in trying to wrestle a parts book out of their hands after I'm told "There's no such part." If they wanna stunt and call it a show, cool. Get rid of the whole "gangsta" image crapola that their crew seems to think will give them respect. It's a waste of CCS money if WE are paying them. Could actually be a reason some of the track insurances have gone up, besides the obvious healthcare increases.
Round and round on a track is NASCRAP ovals. We have turns and bends and corners and elevation changes here. Is the XSBA still in CCS existence?
Hey speedballer, doesn't your name here have something to do with drugs? Isn't that a concoction of cocaine and speed or something like that? Trying to put a positive shine on cocaine? (Sorry dude, you caught me on a bad day here to be posting shots of crying babies as a response to the ? you asked.)
Wheelies, burnouts, jumps, keep it in the dirt on a dirtbike. I'd like to think there's a positive message that comes with the "show", but what is it? Take it to the track? Are there a lot of Janesville/Beloit/Rockford squids that come to watch at BHF?
Ok...interesting again.
Q: how can stuntas fit into a postive image w/ motorcycles?
A: Get 'em out to a dealership for a bike night showing real skill, but doing it in full gear.
This would require:
A legitimate crew, one that didn't stunt on the streets and highways.
A crew that was really knowledgable about all facets of street bikes. Supreme skill a requirement.
Engaging personalities that wouldn't scare the kiddies or moms away.
From this basic outline, you could put together a program that would entertain all riders and spectators, educate the public, and sell product for retailers.
In every sport there are people who put forward a postitive image, and other who can't control thamselves at any cost. I see potential here, but it needs to be organized correctly and marketed properly.
QuoteHey speedballer, doesn't your name here have something to do with drugs? Isn't that a concoction of cocaine and speed or something like that? Trying to put a positive shine on cocaine? (Sorry dude, you caught me on a bad day here to be posting shots of crying babies as a response to the ? you asked.)
You don't like baby pix?
No man, Speedballer isn't drugs...it's a phrase from way back...ya know, "We were speedballing down hiway T at triple digits, blah, blah, blah"
Prolly before your time...way back when 'squid' meant you were a dragging knees on the backroads :)
QuoteOk...interesting again.
Q: how can stuntas fit into a postive image w/ motorcycles?
A: Get 'em out to a dealership for a bike night showing real skill, but doing it in full gear.
This would require:
A legitimate crew, one that didn't stunt on the streets and highways.
A crew that was really knowledgable about all facets of street bikes. Supreme skill a requirement.
Engaging personalities that wouldn't scare the kiddies or moms away.
From this basic outline, you could put together a program that would entertain all riders and spectators, educate the public, and sell product for retailers.
In every sport there are people who put forward a postitive image, and other who can't control thamselves at any cost. I see potential here, but it needs to be organized correctly and marketed properly.
Good points alexa!
You're right on all counts.
Stunting is really making a switch from street to lots and comps.
most stunters I know literally haul their bikes to the parking lots in th back of their trucks. Stunting on the street by real stunters is getting less and less, and packed parking lots is becoming the norm.
Is this because they have seen the error of there ways? Yes for some, no for others. For the "No"s it's because they cant afford all the tickets, loss of licenses, etc that they dealt with when streetstunting.
There is actually starting to be vulcanization w/in the stunt community. StreetStunters and Lot stunters. About a 50/50 split so far. Streetstunting is starting to get frowned upon by the stunters themselves.
I suspect in time, it will be like racing vs backroading.
There will be both, but the true players will be on the track or competing.
Stunting is growing by leaps and bounds...as much as everyone hates it, it is NOT going away, but will just continue to get bigger.
Last weekend there was a stunt event in FL....500 competitors and 10,000 spectators turned out.
Businesses are taking notice of the popularity too. Stunters used to ride around thrashed bikes w/ no bodywork...not anymore, because sponsors are tripping over each other to get stickers on those bikes.
When I was racing, I was lucky to get sponored w/ cost on parts.
Now that I am stunting? Yeah...let me tell ya about all the free stuff I have got and am getting...and I aint even that good.
Stuntings on the come up!
;D
Some of this stuff is really funny!!
Hello everyone, 1st of all, And Let me first say that I am a fan of all you reading this,... if you ride a motorcycle...
If you got a fast car, or a pretty car/truck...
I am a motorhead!
A bike fiend... I am not a cruiser rider yet, I'm only 39 yrs old..
I like some harleys, but not all...
I have my own style... but the harleys that I dont personally see as "sharpe" or "Cold blooded".. "supertite".. phat.. whatever you understand to be "a looker"... I am still a fan, and give everyone credit for their OWN style...
Kids that ride, have a fan in me...
Some know that I have joined my buddy (ex-racer) with The #1Stunna's, out of Chicago, and now nearing 300 members between Milwaukee and Atlanta, Detroit and St. Louis....
My stance is this:
True; Stunters NEED to get off the street!
ALL SPEEDERS need to get OFF THE STREET!!!
This Industry Is budding and is almost untapped, but It's catching on, fast...
Because.....
As Road racing and Drag racing, nascar... football, Ice skating figure skating.. bball.... as these all do,
There's an entertainment value...
Everyone wont like Harley's drag or Road racing..
Everyone wont like stunting...
But I would think that since we ALL ARE TAKING A BLACK EYE WITH THESE CLOWNS ACTING AS IF THE EXPRESSWAY WAS MADE FOR THEM...
And not recognizing that I personally have a 12 yr old daughter riding around with my exwife on these same streets, they dont know how I see them in the same light as a drunken driver killing an entire family of innocents, on a revoked license, and with only a scratch and bad breath!
>:(
naw, dont mistake me..
I'm a fan of the sport, the skill, as I am of just about ALL things MOTORIZED, but thats just me...
1 big thing, I dont intend to insult ANYONE! I am glad the subject is being discussed, I see it as progress...
Theres a safety conference set in Chicago this May 8 that will include, no doubt, some stiff criticism from the Illinois A.B.A.T.E. group, this conference is set up by my group the #1 Stunna's, Because we recognize the need for organization.
Infact I have been waiting for about 20 years as a Chi town rider for this same type of opportunity to organize efforts...
I see this as almost turning gang members into responsible citizens, you know, tooth and nail...
But I care about our Biker Community (ALL BIKERS)
And this may take a while ???
but I am commited to putting my every effort into seeing it thru, I got nothin better to do.
And My message to all is a safety message..
We have formed a Stunt team, Drag race team, and of course Road race team, all combined....
I am the Captain of the Road race team and this entire team effort started behind me proposing the same to the #1 Stunna Board members..
I say that because This means that My voice is carying some weight, so you can look at our team
as the first with this "3 headed monster" type deal,
ATTACKING THE SAFETY ISSUE, THE STREET RIDING CREDIBILITY ISSUE,....
GET OFF THE STREET!!!!!!
let me say, the veterans have the attention of the newbies, and the club in general is hott...
We are working on a place to practice and to compete (for the stunters)... (our black eye)..
It's real, and I doubt with these machines and technology, that it goes away...
I challenge you responsible Riders and Racers to step up and have your say, put a foot in it, lets legitimize it, and get these arena's opened...
WE ALL KNOW THAT ROAD RACING ALSO NEEDS TO BE ADVERTISED SOMEWHERE, our fanbase sucks!
We have junior stunters... we need to start there really, in raising our kids NOT to stunt in the streets, not to race in the streets...
who's gonna do that?
I say a group effort is the strongest effort...
no, not everyone is gonna be interested... And those are the ones that I dont intend to offend.
what did I miss?
ahh heck, thats enuff....
40
I agree with the Chefman about RR needing a bigger fanbase. However, the VAST MAJORITY of these stunting crews are using "gangsta lifestyle" as their promo? What part of THAT has ever been positive or attractive? That attitude that reads like a 200 pound chip on the shoulder. I know, it's part of the "show", but let's leave that back in High School and away from the tracks.
Uhh no, 347, I have never heard of that term used to describe a ride. Probably because it's street slang for a cocaine cocktail. What positive message does that carry for the track? >:( Sorry EM JAY, I don't see a positive message on the street, in this town, at BHF, or at RAmerica last year. Rent Co. Stadium parking lot; put on a "how to" to get the kids off the street. Drop the "cred" stuff and get into some fundamental teaching. That could/would be positive.
FWIW- I get harassed by the cops in Janesville now too. That's DEFINITELY part of the anger.
QuoteUhh no, 347, I have never heard of that term used to describe a ride. Probably because it's street slang for a cocaine cocktail. What positive message does that carry for the track? >:( S
I took it to mean "Speed" as in, you know, he's a speedy guy... and "baller" as in, he's a baller.
Chef - when we get closer to that conference... if it's open to the public or whatever, be sure to post it up here. I'd like to attend.
S'That you, Stevie, 251?
;D You wanna know what ALWAYS tickles me and NEVER fails...
In high school I was a dumb jock till I got the infamous hb knee (strained acl)....(football runningback)
Then B average student.... bus'd (well, public trnsprtn) from my bad neighborhood to a decent one (better than mine, but still the south side of Chi.) :)
I could walk (and would >:() rite into the middle of 7-9 gangbangers,... gd's, bd's, stones, 4ch's.. whatever...
and try to provoke em..... nothing! couldnt pick a fight..
(they know who to bluff and who not....)
This aint about me, what's funny is after high school, the guys who were "really" "cool" or
"tuff"... either spiraled strait to nothing (drug addict, alcoholics, jail, dead), or turned strait and became responsible (for the most part) parents...
The JOKE is what the stronger GEEKS did...
College... picked on the weaker geeks (as they were picked on)... became successful.. and put on a bandana..... tatoos.. bike....
Puhlease... those kats aint tuff!
neither am I, but I once was... like you sed, back in high school...
But you know, in advertising..... like our sport, 9-10 oclock news will report more bike wrecks than charity events!!! even frickin, that sport, poker, gets air play.... I wanted to say "more" air play than Road racing.....
so, yeah, they play a "tuff role".... cuz a bunch of em are still knuckleheaded kids in their own minds, looking at themselves in "this tuff guy" suit,... and thats the "charge" they need to do the often times death defying stunts...
but some of em are genuinely mad about something, something immature bout they Moma spoiled em too much, but not quite enuff!
(tho, I think we all got a lil o dat :-X)
A lot too, they be mad bout dem stupid tkt's from dem stupid cops... (it's a joke) (all cops arent stupid)
I see that they have some fans, some kids too, And thats another part of why we, you too, have to get involved... they are giving us a blackeye..
I LOVE my 929 on the street! NOT the cops following me, I've seen enuff prejudice! My ride is sometimes, OFTEN TIMES my only means of sanity restoral, stress relief, peace of mind....
naaahhh... WE gotta get someplace for these fellas to go and do their thing, and be judged, get some purses, some fans, percs...
It's still the biking community. And they're still our brothers, lost, but not unreachable...
YES, there will always be the lawless, but there are programms and places for them to go too, just like in the Harley group, the NBA, Figure skaters who injure the others in order to win ::)
had to slip that in there...
kinda like rap music, not everyone likes it, and I dont like all of it, but it's still popular..
I will help this thing bloom and promote RR as well as the drag strip in my Safety speech..
Those who are "special" should be recognized for their talent (IMHO) as entertainers... Celebrity...
The other Industries made it happen,.... runnin moonshine....
the attention these guys bring to the sportbike scene should be capitalized on...
I will be adding sugar to every lemon I happen upon... somethings we have NO control over, somethings we wont be able to control, but if we DONT try, we are garaunteed to NOT control it.
whatever that means..
And just to mention, and not just because I'm part of this club, But because we have finally grouped the responsible, mature group with the younger fella's, and as I speak to more and more of the Veterans, they feel the same way as you and I about nurturing kids... there's quite a few with kids who are setting up extremely positive events/outings for the next generation... I'm glad to be a part of it, Ive been riding 20yrs and REALLY wanting to group up with my buddies and make a change on some things, but everyone has allways been busy... we are set to make a big diff in the next years...
This is really great timing, I'm sad for the people who lost their lives last summer, and their families.
The attention to safety, or lack of safety in the biking community makes for a prime set up to "organized motorspors events being extremely more safe!
no?
OH, we found this abuse kid shelter this week!
It's gonna be Great for the Stunna's to do something outside of self, even tho the grammar school kids really enjoyed the other charity events already put on by the Stunna's around the Chicagoland area...
And thats just to say that The entire Stunt Community isnt ALL bad...
(I was thinking a fast guy with big money too) which he is.. ::)
That las thing was (speedballer)....
QuoteI took it to mean "Speed" as in, you know, he's a speedy guy... and "baller" as in, he's a baller.
Chef - when we get closer to that conference... if it's open to the public or whatever, be sure to post it up here. I'd like to attend.
http://stunnastyle.com/viewtopic.php?t=219
Jimmie, just incase I get busy later, you can write it down off of here..
QuoteI took it to mean "Speed" as in, you know, he's a speedy guy... and "baller" as in, he's a baller.
Thanks Jim! 8) ...that's exactly what it means....speedballing ie: speedballer.
QuoteFWIW- I get harassed by the cops in Janesville now too. That's DEFINITELY part of the anger.
You can't outrun the PoPo?? On a Bike?! Fo real?!
Dude, take up golfing! (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstlriderz.com%2Fhtml%2Femoticons%2Ftard1.gif&hash=3b7e01d73b230f3442dc4c615876dcabe2eb0237)
Umm, you mean speedbowler? ::)
Somebody educate my narrow minded country boy farm ass; what in the H E double toothpicks is a baller? As in Ron Jeremy? That's the only kinda ballin I'm familiar with, or you can really whip out the 300s down at SaberLanes. :o
"Uuuughh..." -Charlie Brown
Baller: root, as in ball player. Kind of a slang that developed to describe Star athletes. The street version is used to describe anyone who has it goin' on. ;D
QuoteBaller: root, as in ball player. Kind of a slang that developed to describe Star athletes. The street version is used to describe anyone who has it goin' on. ;D
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstlriderz.com%2Fhtml%2Femoticons%2Fwub.gif&hash=18d0be4b141acdf456c02993b194484d32eeb3f8) (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstlriderz.com%2Fhtml%2Femoticons%2Fcheers.gif&hash=37d0b4a8b198d5e6d3ec2628616e6a79dbfd980c)
QuoteJimmie, just incase I get busy later, you can write it down off of here..
Is Chef Ike, or is Chef Isaac Hayes (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstlriderz.com%2Fhtml%2Femoticons%2Fchefico.gif&hash=dd655f8d58185fe08504e795b8c2467de2b211f7) (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.kult-mag.com%2Fphotos%2F00%2F00%2F27%2F32%2FME0000273221_1.jpg&hash=f9058ab88260c0ab4686eb90befd3ec34ef9062d)
Quote or you can really whip out the 300s down at SaberLanes. :o
"Uuuughh..." -Charlie Brown
LOL!!!
Saber Lanes... I thought they only had one in Menasha. ;D
_____________________________________________
Alexa,
You never cease to amaze me. The only speedball I knew of was the type that killed John Belushi.
Who says you can't learn anything on the BBS.
;)
Here's a little true story for you.
There once was a young man by the name of Stimpy. He and his friends, Lohnson and Woopy, loved to ride hard on the twisty back roads and do wheelies, stoppies and burnouts. They all just loved to ride period. They all loved the AMA races, too, and looked forward to riding their bikes to see their favorite guy, Micky Layden. They owned tons of videos of stunting including Las Vegas Extremes and Wink 1100 (Your wheelies are garbage!).
One year they found out that Paulie of the Las Vegas Extremes would be at Road America. They wanted to go see him and JoJo, too, of course. So they packed up their saddle bags and off they went. When they got there, they were amazed to find races going on, too. Not superstars racing, but normal people racing--people just like them. Stimpy started talking to the racers and finding out about what they were racing and how they got into it.
Stimpy went home excited. He hadn't known about "club racing". He got on the internet and found a used race bike and studied up on what organizations there were and found the best school for him, CrazyDale Fosno's school worked for him. Stimpy went to the school the following spring. He put one tank of gas through his street bike the following year, just riding to work. And, that same year, won two regional overall championships, Lohnson got rid of his street bike, won two amateur national championships as well as many regional class championships and Woopy raced hard, too.
They all are living happily ever after.
Not the end...just the beginning!
~~~
Can stunting and racing work together some how and promote each other? Yes. The correct formula needs to be worked out and "big" names need to be included. Last I knew Paulie Shear wasn't too happy with CCE and "XSBA". However with current schedule constraints and costs rising here, there and everywhere, maybe there are better avenues for promotion of both activities.
I think there is an untapped market of racers out on the streets doing dumb things that don't see or know about club racing as an alternative. If given the opportunity, I bet they'd think wheelies are more fun on a cool down lap (don't get caught!!!) of a race they won than on the freeway, but that's just my guess.
Heather
QuoteHere's a little true story for you.
There once was a young man by the name of Stimpy.
I just want to know if his sidekick is named Ren? ::) ;) ;D :P
BTW..good aliases on the names. Did you collaborate with K3 on that? :) (Chris, I didn't do it!) :o ;D
QuoteI think there is an untapped market of racers out on the streets doing dumb things that don't see or know about club racing as an alternative. If given the opportunity, I bet they'd think wheelies are more fun on a cool down lap (don't get caught!!!) of a race they won than on the freeway, but that's just my guess.
Heather
There's some well thought out ideas...
The relative investment to be a Stunta is low.
Road racing, high.
Untapped market of racers?
Well, over the course of my life time, the numbers of bikes, as well as sport bikes, has DRAMATICALLY increased.
Are racers unique?
Will having more racers make something better?
I don't think so. If racers did a better job promoting themselves road racing... nice job Stumpy Family, Safety First Racing and others...that would make the value that racing has in the industry and in any market place more attractive.
NASCAR ain't selling no Taurus' like the one's they race. Some of those people only own trucks even. But you're there to see the personalities...
Gary Rothwell...he had personality. At Road America, I'd always go down to the far end where he'd turn around. He'd see me and we'd exchange some glances...I'd kind of get my own show. Dan and Cory had the personality to recognize that.
Personalities make stuff fun...
Mladin, Rossi, Rothwell, Favre, McEnroe...
Not volume. Yeah, initially, seeing it, something might be cool. But to really hook someone, you need the personalities.
Club racers last how long?
See why no one wants to go to a club race?
And I agree wholeheartedly, SuperDave.
I was just throwing out a little food for thought.
I also agree with your statement that about figure skaters and speed skaters. Very good comparison.
Without some research and examinations of goals and objectives (who's goals & objectives being the main point), none of it really matters anyway.
Heather :)
QuoteLOL!!!
Saber Lanes... I thought they only had one in Menasha. ;D
_ Umm, they did, I grew up in the Town of Menasha/Neenah. Have they remodeled? I thought SabreLanes were all over the place along with Gem Roller Rinks and every farm kid still gets a beat up DT 80 for their 9th birthday. :o That would be Menasha and the old Polish Connection. Ahhh, memories...Dang, all this from the hooligan wannabes at BHF...guess they can't be all that bad then. :)
I have no problem with people performing stunts in the right environment. Sure, it takes skill (though I'm sure pretty much most of us could get the front wheel off the ground with a rear sprocket the size of a dinner plate) and I'm not one to tell other people what they can or can't do for enjoyment. I bought a video or two when they first came out. I love to watch a MotoGP rider hoist a nice wheelie across the finish line. The main problem I have with the trend is that it seems a lot of the stunting crowd seems not to care about how the things they do affect anyone else. Maybe the distinction should be made between organized stunting and street stunting, the former I have no problem with but the latter I do. I'm a moderator on another motorcycle site which has in its site rules a ban on stunt talk. There are plenty of forums for that. It seems whenever someone doesn't like that rule, it's because we "can't ride" or "don't have the ballz" to do what they do. They try to proclaim that motorcycling is evolving and stunting is the way of the future. I see a place for stunting, in an X-Games type of format. But this street stuff has got to stop or no one will be able to go for a nice weekend ride on his or her sportbike without constantly catching all the flak from a public who is sick of it all. I love motorcycles and I'll be riding them until I'm too old to get out of my rocking chair. Will most of these guys? Or is it just a phase they're going though, trying to prove they are living on the edge? It almost seems like the motorcycle is secondary to the image they want to portray (much like the guy trailering his Harley across the US just to ride the last 5 miles into Sturgis). Like I said, I have no problem with organized stunting in the right place. I just want to be able to enjoy what I do as well, and I do think street stunting is a threat to that.
QuoteUmm, they did, I grew up in the Town of Menasha/Neenah. Have they remodeled? I thought SabreLanes were all over the place along with Gem Roller Rinks and every farm kid still gets a beat up DT 80 for their 9th birthday. :o That would be Menasha and the old Polish Connection. Ahhh, memories...Dang, all this from the hooligan wannabes at BHF...guess they can't be all that bad then. :)
Gem Roller Rink..... Oh my goodness, we may have met many years ago. Although, I think I may be a few years older than you based on your profile. You know when you're in 6th - 8th grade, you can't be seen with the 'younger' crowd. ;)
I haven't been to Sabre Lanes in about 15 years and then it was just trying to keep the balls between the two gutters after hitting the bars for a while. I think I actually scored a 53, 86, and 123, if a remember correctly. I all know is that we were laughing our a$$'s off the entire time. According to the phone book, they're still there.
The polish connection sucks when you blow a rod on your little toyota and the motor seizes on top of the bridge.
Dawn :)
Gem Roller Rink..... Oh my goodness, we may have met many years ago. Although, I think I may be a few years older than you based on your profile. You know when you're in 6th - 8th grade, you can't be seen with the 'younger' crowd. ;)
YES!!! Well, it was a great break for the parents to get the 5 of us out of the house at once. Nothing like a roller rink disco ball and a little Saturday Night Fever! Stayin alive stayin alive ah ah ah ah Stayin aliiiiiiivvvve
The polish connection sucks when you blow a rod on your little toyota and the motor seizes on top of the bridge.
OHNO, not on the top...
Dang, I can remember hanging on for life in mid-winter, bridge frozen, north winds pushing the car around, praying to get down to the other side.
What do they say? 6 degrees of seperation? :)
CrazyDale Fosno's school worked for him.
Say, is that Crazy Dale Fosno related to LaVerne DeFosno? You know, she's down in that Eagle/Milwaukee area working at Shotz's Brew Pub... ;D
QuoteBaller: root, as in ball player. Kind of a slang that developed to describe Star athletes. The street version is used to describe anyone who has it goin' on. ;D
Also to describe an individual with alot of $$$ or material posessions.
QuoteIs Chef Ike, or is Chef Isaac Hayes (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstlriderz.com%2Fhtml%2Femoticons%2Fchefico.gif&hash=dd655f8d58185fe08504e795b8c2467de2b211f7) (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.kult-mag.com%2Fphotos%2F00%2F00%2F27%2F32%2FME0000273221_1.jpg&hash=f9058ab88260c0ab4686eb90befd3ec34ef9062d)
Chef is Isaac Hayes Anderson from the Love Boat
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classictvhits.com%2Fshowcards%2Floveboat%2Floveboat.jpg&hash=376ac30d03d71450ee517264d068c448e8d4eeab)
QuoteYou can't outrun the PoPo?? On a Bike?! Fo real?!
Dude, take up golfing! (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstlriderz.com%2Fhtml%2Femoticons%2Ftard1.gif&hash=3b7e01d73b230f3442dc4c615876dcabe2eb0237)
Yep a FELONY is really worth it. ::)
The harrassment isnt them pulling bikes over for no reason. It comes in the form of FOLLOWING and following VERY CLOSELY. I've had a Janesville cop yell at me at a light "We are watching you verticle mischief a$$hols". Hmm I have no VMC stickers on my bike, I wear FULL FREAKING GEAR on the street (ballistic riding suit in one color) and I still get crap from them. Call the station to report and all you get is "You got witnesses?"
But yet you can ride a Softtail with open drag pipe running at full song doing 15 over past one and they give them a thumbs up. Go 5 over past them on a sportbike and they pull you over.
We never had problems with the police here in the past. Most the time they just told us to settle down. But ever since this stunting fad started, they've been real asses to anyone on a sportbike. Its not just the "teams", its every fre4aking newbie who buys a sportbike for a first bike trying stunts IN FREAKING TOWN on Milton Ave (Janesvilles busy road). Its just a matter of time before one kills himself or someone else on Milton Ave and then you dont even want to think of riding a sportbike in Janesville.
I even had an officer who was parked down the street from my house follow me the 3/4 miles to the city limits from my house to the highway on my way to work at 6am.
Stunting isn't new...
One of the most famous motorcyclist of all times is Evil Knievel. He's got family around where my mother and father grew up. They all look alike...
Anyway, Evil made money. He made a show out of it, no less. But it was a closed course thing, right?
Fonzy even jumped some flaming barrels on a Triumph and jumped some sharks, right?
QuoteFonzy even jumped some flaming barrels on a Triumph and jumped some sharks, right?
LOL! I read that Henry Winkler (The real Fonz) can't even ride a motorcycle!
QuoteLOL! I read that Henry Winkler (The real Fonz) can't even ride a motorcycle!
That's true, he himself admits it. He was either on a trailer, a stunt man was driving, or he rode for a very short distance and then tipped over.
Dawn
So while Henry Winkler himself is a decent director, the Fonz was just a big pu$$y. :o ;D
Aaayyyyyyyy!
QuoteAaayyyyyyyy!
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.omgjeremy.com%2Funclesam%2Ffonz.jpg&hash=0ed0092a4d275a2245be47bfa1766f631e372f67)
Hey , that looks like my neighbor, he says he the OG of Stunnas! I think he rides a truimph also, says its a crotch rocket too, its a Spint RS 955i. Its totally trick!! Its got a Super Trapp exhaust with like 20 baffels in it. ;D
QuoteIs Chef Ike, or is Chef Isaac Hayes (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstlriderz.com%2Fhtml%2Femoticons%2Fchefico.gif&hash=dd655f8d58185fe08504e795b8c2467de2b211f7) (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.kult-mag.com%2Fphotos%2F00%2F00%2F27%2F32%2FME0000273221_1.jpg&hash=f9058ab88260c0ab4686eb90befd3ec34ef9062d)
;D
Chef IS COOL!!!!
You know, that one story that StumpysWife wrote reminds of a guy wearing the #1 plate in the region I race in, and is written about in some race mags...
A guy who once told me that he looked up to me??? I did NOT ask the question, it was a shock to me too....
Any way, the story sounds a lot like mine, I JUST DIDNT KNOW how easy it was to experience the track!
yep, expensive..... but nevertheless, I'd have done it long ago...
Again, too....
Never, would I be accused of forcing anything on anyone...
because I dont react to that too well myself...
40
If I'm at the track and, like the pit bike race, I just didnt watch that... It's big for many, but It just didnt outweigh other things that day...
QuoteChef IS COOL!!!!
I like Ike!
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.devoncass.com%2FResources%2FIssac%2520Hayes%2520copy.jpg%2520final%2520copy.jpg%25202.jpg&hash=9cf0c3c967bc5faea57763c04216b4b0c741399d)
I just wanted to post this pic again...I love it, it makes me laugh :D
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv405%2FSpeedballer%2Fbaby_crying.jpg&hash=d97fba1c164f284329d520a8cf733a89bddc8617)
Isaac is a PIMP...
QuoteI like Ike!
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.devoncass.com%2FResources%2FIssac%2520Hayes%2520copy.jpg%2520final%2520copy.jpg%25202.jpg&hash=9cf0c3c967bc5faea57763c04216b4b0c741399d)
Hey, really...
did yall hear that song from Chef on the show....
suck on my chawchlit salty balls.....
just put em in ya mouth and suk em, suk em...
He had made some mean, mean meatballs.....
liked em so much himself.... made a song about em...
;D ::)
QuoteHey, really...
did yall hear that song from Chef on the show....
suck on my chawchlit salty balls.....
just put em in ya mouth and suk em, suk em...
He had made some mean, mean meatballs.....
liked em so much himself.... made a song about em...
;D ::)
Ike, I have that song on CD. I could play it the next time you are at BHF. ;D
Rob....I just discovered what was in your helmet! :)
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frpracing.org%2Fpup6.jpg&hash=986897ee1f816752920c68f40ad1ee332e8a8225)
Hehe. Just wish he was calmer so he could ride on the pitbike at BHF.
He went from this cute little calm fuzzball
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv238%2Frpracing%2Fmisc%2Fpup4.jpg&hash=dcb712f93a543362c45d63eaba598e717870f0c8)
to a crazy 20lb ball of muscle that looks for trouble
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv238%2Frpracing%2Fmisc%2Ftrouble1.jpg&hash=3b5ef66982a17dd3606fc152f62070daa8957974)
To make matters worse, its hard to get him to come back inside when theres snow on the ground.
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv238%2Frpracing%2Fmisc%2Fdsc_0221.jpg&hash=dc0eaba3c58f5a1a1944b53585b86f55b9aa16e1)
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv238%2Frpracing%2Fmisc%2Fdsc_0228.jpg&hash=86f2f8ac96f34df4d3c5e404fdfdf81cfd69fb20)
;D
BTW he is the crew chief. ;D
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv238%2Frpracing%2Fmisc%2Ftrouble1.jpg&hash=3b5ef66982a17dd3606fc152f62070daa8957974)
Now THAT's a cutie!!!! :D
I got a soft spot for the little guys ... I always had Jack Russells :)
I was WONDERING the whole while...
What!!! was that helmet thing about?!?!?!?!?
That IS cool Rob.. I'm a dog/animal lover too... He makes me wanna play in the snow!!!
GOOD POST!!!!
thnx
QuoteThat IS cool Rob.. I'm a dog/animal lover too... He makes me wanna play in the snow!!!
GOOD POST!!!!
thnx
Now if we can get him to settle down and relax, he could come with me to the track. ;D
That whole trick to get a dog to realise he isnt the pack leader isnt working. :D Put him on his side until he "gives" takes a loooooong time since he thinks its playtime.
QuoteNow if we can get him to settle down and relax, he could come with me to the track. ;D
That whole trick to get a dog to realise he isnt the pack leader isnt working. :D Put him on his side until he "gives" takes a loooooong time since he thinks its playtime.
If you have cable, there's a show on National Geographic called "the Dog Whisperer". The guy's name is Cesar Milan and he knows the whole pack thing. I suggest you watch about 10 episodes. You will learn alot. Bronte has mellowed out almost completely.
QuoteIf you have cable, there's a show on National Geographic called "the Dog Whisperer". The guy's name is Cesar Milan and he knows the whole pack thing. I suggest you watch about 10 episodes. You will learn alot. Bronte has mellowed out almost completely.
Already do.
BTW when I tried teh shock collar, he just looked at me with that "Is that all you got?" look. :o ;D
Either this dog has no nervous system or he really has a high threshold of pain.
I've never seen Cesar use shock collar. He advocates structured walks for at least 30 minutes a day, a disciplined routine for everything you do, and consistency amongst all members of the family. He's a specialist with Rotwilers and pit bulls, and has rehabilitated some really vicious dogs. This guy has a presence around all dogs. He obviously gets the pack leader thing, because even strange dogs respond to him.
We thought we were doing pretty good with Bronte, but then we started watching the show and found that we weren't doing everything consistently, and that Roger was acting more like a pack mate than a pack leader, especially with the way he gave commands. We both were inconsistent with the walking, and now we have fairly relaxed walks. Her biggest problem was she was starting to take us for a walk. We now take her for a walk.
Our biggest problem now is that if she gets out the door off leash, she doesn't want to come back. We're working on being consistent so she doesn't even think of bolting out the open door.
During the day she is totally mellow and happy, and she listens really well now.
Hell he wont leave my side when he's off leash.