The benefits are:
Save another day of travel, off work, and hotel.
Not restricted to expert only. It's the individual riders skill level, not whether they have a white or yellow plate.
Riders limited to 60 in Advance group which runs much like an open race practice day.
This will be a three session 20 minute format. Typically you can expect to receive seven 20 minute sessions. This translates into plenty of open track time. More than enough time to get your bike setup.
This is the day prior to the F-USA event. Not only can you map out your pit stop for the weekend YOU CAN KEEP IT. The paddock will be completely empty Thursday morning. In effect you can have first choice.
F-USA series venders and full race support will be on site.
Get focused on what you want to accomplish VS. Spending resources (tires, gas, and energy) based solely on a continuous open track. Use your time constructively and with goals in mind and I am confident that you will find that 20 minute sessions provide you with way more track time than you actually need.
http://nesba.com/info/trackevents.aspx
Amen! NESBA days are great ;D
I have heard a lot about NESBA but as a racer don't find what I hear appealing. First, there is no way that a serious racer can get a good setup running 20 minute sessions, especially at RA. By the time you get the bike up to speed, tires and suspension warmed up, and turning good lap times the session is over, let alone if you pull into the pits to turn a knob etc. Also, street riders abound. I know they are not in every session but their numbers limit the amount of free space for racers on the same strip of tarmac or at least to accomodate them more sessions are necessary and so the sessions become shorter. Lastly, and mostly...control riders. I won't really spill my guts on this notion, but lets just say I strongly disagree with the whole notion. Oh and the membership fee thing is a burden also. In my opinion at this time it just sounds way too restrictive for a serious racer to get serious ride/setup time. For a street rider that needs some hand holding and slow/new racers this may be a decent program.
LMSports- You have a very good point, I don't think I could really get the feedback I want in a 20 minute session. You come in make 1 change....and then wait for 40 minutes? I really hope that TrackAddix will let novices in so I can get some much needed track time. So how much is the NESBA day???? A Dyno??? Suspension help??? Just wondering.
Dave
NESBA is 165
Quote The paddock will be completely empty Thursday morning.
So you are going to make the people that are there for the TrackAddix day, and staying for the weekend LEAVE??? That kind of sucks? So if doing both (hopefully) I'll have to leave and then come back and set up again?
Dave
Don't forget the membership fee. That will be extra also.
165...is that the member or nonmember price?
Guys, you have to understand, the NESBA track days are just what they are--track days! If you are looking for some track time for setting up a race bike, I dunno if they are what your looking for. Having done over a dozen track days with them I can say your just there to ride hard and have fun ;) As for control riders, if you are in the advanced group, there are none ;D Goto NESBA.COM for all the info you need.
As for the price, you get what you pay for-1st class :)
I am just going to say one thing really so..........I think it shows extremely poor taste to come into another organizations posting and rip them. Regardless of what they may say in it post in your own topic. Not only that but have the courtesy to let your product speak for itself instead of ripping on someone elses to make yours look good. LM you should have kept your post in your own topic with Trackaddix. NESBA yours was not the most positive either.
However I went to a NESBA event at Road Atlanta in November and I felt 20 minute sessions were plenty to get my bike dialed in and to start turning good lap times.
The 165 is the track day. The membership is
additional. NESBA is a great org.
For me this is not one track org
against another. I have also found at every
track via track day I've attended 20 min is
to short to do any real test and tune.
My decision would be based on session time.
I liked the idea of getting more then 20 min
WOW :o Like I said track days are for track days, racing--well you get the picture. I dont think either organization meant to start anything, both are great at running track days, so can't we all just get along :D
Well at least until the flag drops ;)
QuoteI have heard a lot about NESBA but as a racer don't find what I hear appealing. First, there is no way that a serious racer can get a good setup running 20 minute sessions, especially at RA. By the time you get the bike up to speed, tires and suspension warmed up, and turning good lap times the session is over, let alone if you pull into the pits to turn a knob etc. Also, street riders abound. I know they are not in every session but their numbers limit the amount of free space for racers on the same strip of tarmac or at least to accomodate them more sessions are necessary and so the sessions become shorter. Lastly, and mostly...control riders. I won't really spill my guts on this notion, but lets just say I strongly disagree with the whole notion. Oh and the membership fee thing is a burden also. In my opinion at this time it just sounds way too restrictive for a serious racer to get serious ride/setup time. For a street rider that needs some hand holding and slow/new racers this may be a decent program.
Rob I guess to each their own. The really good thing is that being a "racer", if you do not agree with or you do not feel that the NESBA format and structure is to your benefit you simply do not have to participate. We still welcome you, but the choice is yours. What I don't understand is why you are making an issue out of it. If you feel it does not work for you, fine. Don't participate. I would also bring into question your objectivity since you are currently affiliated with another track day organization.
I have to disagree with your statement with not being able to obtain a good set up at RA using 20 minute sessions. Yes, 20 minutes is not ideal and can be a bit restrictive. At least we are providing an opportunity. In years past there was no practice days available for RA. You got two 15 practice sessions if you were lucky. RA is far from a difficult track to obtain a good set up for. It's probably one of the easiest ones, if not the easiest on the AMA schedule. I would even rate Blackhawk and MAM as being more difficult. Not sure what you would classify as a "serious racer" but I can only quote Geoff May last year at our event when he stated: "this place (RA) is not hard to find speed." Michael Himmelsbach did not seem to have any problems either.
Track density is always an issue. NESBA limits the number of riders per group at 60 for RA. The other organization put its limit at 100. What am I missing here?
Ah yes, Control Riders - The heart and sole of the entire NESBA organization. Why would anyone strongly disagree with an organization providing a safe, structured, learning environment that enables riders to become better via "control Riders"? If we are talking the Advance group, NESBA does not employ CR's in this group. NESBA Advance sessions are run very similar in feeling and in structure much like a typical open race practice. I.E. NO RESTRICTIONS. For the Beginner and Intermediate groups CR's function like track coaches and teachers helping NESBA members improve and develop their skills in order to become safer and faster riders.
I have always taken a position of discussing NESBA's positives rather than highlighting other organizations short comings. But since you have broached the subject; I am puzzled by an organization that has a basic open format of combing all riders of various skill levels on the track at the same time with no guidance, all the while believing it creates no issues or safety concerns, while at the same time it markets an event that is restricted to "expert racers" only. Seems a bit contradictory to me. Why do you make this distinction? I can only surmise it is for the same basic reasons why NESBA employs a separate group structure based on skill level. Having a race license, be it expert, amateur, or novice is not an absolute criterion of a rider's skill level.
NESBA is also an approved and authorized race license procurement organization with several racing organizations including CCS.
As for Sean...Whooooaaa. Where did that come from. I was commenting on the NESBA structure.
As for Garth...thanks for the clarification. I appreciate your explanation of how your day works for advanced riders.
Firerider...good point. I think two different things are being offered here when you stand back to look at it. Track Addix is bringing in a racer practice opportunity and NESBA is providing a regular track day. I don't see anything negative in either one.
I don't want to give off any negative vibes against either organization. I'm glad that both providers are looking to give us the time to get on track. Hopefully they work well together in concert for us...the riders, so that we can enjoy a great start to the season with both of their organizations.
;D ;D
Heck if ya want the track time do both ;)
QuoteTrack density is always an issue. NESBA limits the number of riders per group at 60 for RA. The other organization put its limit at 100. What am I missing here?
I am puzzled by an organization that has a basic open format of combing all riders of various skill levels on the track at the same time with no guidance, all the while believing it creates no issues or safety concerns, while at the same time it markets an event that is restricted to "expert racers" only. Seems a bit contradictory to me. Why do you make this distinction?
Here's what your missing Garth!
We limit the total number of riders attending our "No Session" track days. The limit is variable depending on track size. While we may have 100 riders total at an event, riders take breaks at different times and of different lengths. While some riders are still on the track, other riders are taking a break or tuning their bikes. There only tends to be about half the total riders on track at any given time during our events.
Here's something else you are missing!
You make reference to our events being contradictory. We work hard to meet the needs of the market place. There is no actual "Racer Only" practice available for such a huge weekend at Road America. Racers don't like dodging street riders while trying to get their bike dialed in, skills back up to speed after a long winter offseason, and lowering their lap times.
Street riders don't like getting stuffed by racers who are trying to get some serious practice in before a race weekend where there is big money on the line.
There is a huge difference in intensity level between a "track day" and an actual "race practice". We polled the market place and have organized an event to meet the needs of the racers.
With the increased track time available at our events, racers can set their crew up in the hot pit and have enough time in a longer session to actually make some changes and then head back out on the track while things are still fresh in their minds.
We can argue the difference in our philosophies all day long. But obviously the way we run our "No Session" track days works quite well as is evidenced by our safety record, not to mention that organizers who provide a 3 session format have either gone out of business or ceased to book dates at tracks like MAM, HPT, and BIR where TrackAddix has entered the market place.
So lets agree to disagree regarding that issue. I have contacted you twice by email attempting to work together to our mutual benefit and especially to the benefit of the racers. I am willing to lay all of this to rest and work together. Now what do you say? Let's put on one hell of a week for everyone! I am still waiting for your call.
QuoteI have heard a lot about NESBA but as a racer don't find what I hear appealing. First, there is no way that a serious racer can get a good setup running 20 minute sessions, especially at RA. By the time you get the bike up to speed, tires and suspension warmed up, and turning good lap times the session is over, let alone if you pull into the pits to turn a knob etc. Also, street riders abound. I know they are not in every session but their numbers limit the amount of free space for racers on the same strip of tarmac or at least to accomodate them more sessions are necessary and so the sessions become shorter. Lastly, and mostly...control riders. I won't really spill my guts on this notion, but lets just say I strongly disagree with the whole notion. Oh and the membership fee thing is a burden also. In my opinion at this time it just sounds way too restrictive for a serious racer to get serious ride/setup time. For a street rider that needs some hand holding and slow/new racers this may be a decent program.
I know some took offense to this post... but would the post have been just as offensive if it had come from.... me? I am nobody, 1st year racer, spent all last year doing TD's (sessions and no sessions) I know in business there is always animosity but nowhere in that post did it mention anything about TA or "no session"... simply didnt agree with the format to be used as a racer practice. I probably should have just let the thread die... but I wanted to pitch in my 2 cents. 1st time to RA.... 1st year racing... brand new suspension... I want all the track time I can get, at once. 2-3 laps, clickclickclick, 2-3 laps, clickclick...click. You get the idea.
As for levels of riders... quick question regarding NESBA... let say i attend my first event with NESBA, at what point am I able to ride in the Expert group? Is it based on times? The reason I ask is that if I am not "allowed" to pass mid corner... RA could be a tough one for me to get any work in against liter bikes.
I've never met the guys from NESBA but have corresponded via email, quick responses to me and seem like easy people to deal with :-/ I DO know the guys from TA and Lithium and cant say enough about them. Perfect world, to save me an extra day... NESBA wed TA thursday... #1 reason, I know what I am getting from dean and crew and have no doubts I'll get everything accomplished. There is always room for more TD's if the market is willing! Gateway went from 3 CCS races in one season and a handful of TD's... to scrapping to get 2 TD's. I think its great there are so many TD providers out there. However, what any organization should recognize is where their market share lies. Are 20 min session at RA the best for racer practice, test and tune? Probably not.. are they better for 1st year track riders with minimal experience? for the most part... thats not to say that a NESBA event cant benefit a racer, as stated the expert level has no limitations but I redirect you to my question... how do I get there and how long does it take? Can it be accomplished say... before lunch? That gives me 1/2 a day at best to tune... not much time. Not to mention I would be trying (on a new track... on new suspension) to "impress" the control riders so that I COULD get bumped up and get some tuning in... that cant be safe.
ANYhoo.... Not lookin to stir the pot, just seems to me that Rob pointed out this may not be the ideal set up for a racer practice, and everyone got all excited... no need for that. Both are established orgs that have their nitch, both benifit the riding community, just in different ways. If we cantt share our opinions and knowlege why bother with message boards?
tim
I've done a few NESBA days.
If you're a faster racer, even the advanced group can be frustrating. There are a lot of guys out there in the advanced group, that while they fall under the classification of an "advanced STREET rider" - racers they're definitely NOT. You also need to keep in mind, while you're out there, that it IS a street-rider based track day. You run a good chance of spooking someone if you pass too closely (and our definition of close is MUCH closer than a street rider's definition of close.) And then there's the handful of guys who have liter bikes, and try to "keep up with a racer" - and wind up causing problems for you. (tho to be honest - it's fun sometimes to mess with them, especially if it's a control rider... hee hee!)
But NESBA also doesn't sell themselves as a race practice organization. They are what they are - a track day org. As for you - it's track time, and some is better than none, right? Just take it for what it is.
Is NESBA before the TrackAddix day? If so... I'd say, hit the NESBA day, relax, and work your rider cobwebs out. Be extra curteous, give lots of extra room, and only pass when the door is WIDE open (it's not that hard to do.) Then, at the TA day, get serious and start concentrating on setup, etc.
Tim, not sure all of your issues can be addressed over the BBS. You can ride in the Advance group immediately providing your riding skill level is commensurate.
The only restrictions on passing are with Beginners. No passing in corners and designated straights. Intermediates can pass on the outside of turns and everywhere else.
Please don't confuse NESBA as marketing this as a racer practice day. This is not the case. With that being said it is still available for racers to utilize for practice. My sole purpose was to highlight the fact that NESBA will be at RA and Racers can get some practice time. I was just trying to clarify some issues that I felt were insinuations and misinformation relative to how NESBA operates.
Tim let me ask you this. Is it better to get on a new track with some guidance and instruction? Or is it better to just take to the track and try and figure things out on your own? For me it's not about if someone is a "racer" or what group they are in. It's all about becoming a faster; more in control rider.
QuotePlease don't confuse NESBA as marketing this as a racer practice day. This is not the case...
But it's
immediately prior to round two of the FUSA series and pretty much the opening round of the local CCS stuff.
Last year, it was put between the FUSA race and the Michelin test dates...which are for racers.
Show someone that it isn't really designed to get the racer traffic...
April ain't no date to be havin' a good time at RA. We'll be lucky to have temperatures in the 40's, cold shredding tires at the cost of what?
QuoteBut it's immediately prior to round two of the FUSA series and pretty much the opening round of the local CCS stuff.
Last year, it was put between the FUSA race and the Michelin test dates...which are for racers.
Show someone that it isn't really designed to get the racer traffic...
We'll be lucky to have temperatures in the 40's, cold shredding tires at the cost of what?
Yep, I would agree.
I AM JUST HAPPY SOMEONE HAS TRack days the day before a race, treat slower street guys like back markers, we need practice making clean passes on them too
does anyone have a list of who has the track day before each round of FUSA?
specificaly
june 23, VIR
aug 11 barber
sept 8 autobahn
QuoteI AM JUST HAPPY SOMEONE HAS TRack days the day before a race...
No s h i t ! Seems like the glass is always half empty around here.
QuoteTim let me ask you this. Is it better to get on a new track with some guidance and instruction? Or is it better to just take to the track and try and figure things out on your own? For me it's not about if someone is a "racer" or what group they are in. It's all about becoming a faster; more in control rider.
Thanks for clarifying the passing requirements, I was misinformed.
Now to answer your question, I would rather (again perfect world) learn a track on my own, determine my own needs and abilities. Sure the may be a section or two that I cant "figure out" but for the most part I would rather have as many "sessions" on the track as possible (ie... no sessions) to work on what I need to work on. Whether it be learning the flow of the track, picking up break/turn in references points, or bike set up. I may not want your (or a CR) lines, they may not suit my needs. I have found more often than not that I learn more by working around someone... not following them. Dont get me wrong I am not knocking NESBA or what they do, I just dont see it as a racer practice which is clearly the market your after that date. "Please don't confuse NESBA as marketing this as a racer practice day. This is not the case. With that being said it is still available for racers to utilize for practice" Thats like saying... hey where not hear to sell pie... but there will be pie here, and if you want to buy it, we'll sell it... at a pie convention!! Just doesnt add up, I know your not trying to market all your events in such a way, but I also know you are trying to sell a product and have the opportunity to do so at this event.
If thats the only option I'll have to make the decision to attend or not... thats my choice. As for the "insinuations" by Rob.... If I had asked the same question would you have thought that I was insinuating TA was better? Or just stating an opinion? ???
thats all I got, much love to all who promote our sport and whatnot... good luck to NESBA this season, I might just see you at the track.
Well....
"The sport"
Which is it?
Track riding?
Racing?
Two very distinct areas, but the track day programs have cut into racing. How many track day programs are there out there? Fewer racing organizations, certainly. Price hikes for racers? The result of escalating prices by race tracks that have been a result of various track day programs, cars and bikes, willing to buy into the weekend programs to get members.
How long will it be before the only opportunity to race is at an upper level? Will the track day really give you the opportunity to test yourself? Anyway, food for thought...
There's more to the "sport" than meets the eye.,..
sport: to read motorcycle riding in general
I hear what your saying Dave, and I wish I could say I agree... but I cant. Reason being? I havent been around nearly long enough to experience the changes in racing since the TD's have expanded. I agree completely with the thought and have heard enough about you to recognize that you really dont have too much to say unless you know what your sayin ;) So I can TOTALLY agree with the possibility, but I wont pretend to really know anything about something I dont... thats just me. It DOES make sense though, why race when you can do TD's.... More TD's means shorter grids, shorter grids means higher entry fee's and so on....
More simply put, my experiences are all I have to draw opinions on. My only point to the posts was to give just that my opinion.. as I mentioned, I am really nobody. Just another face in the crowd that probably wont be around full time more than a year or 2 and then it will be 3-4 races a year and a handful of TD's. I just wanted to add my 2 cents where I thought it may be helpful. Riding a motorcycle is a sport, anyway that promotes it (racing, TD's, group rides, rallys) that have a positive spin only make the sport grow...maybe not in the direction some would like it to... but grow nonetheless. thankd for the insight, 'll keep that in mind when I think about hangin up the racing... maybe it'll keep me in another year or 2. I'd like to do my part to keep racing a reality!
QuoteWell....
"The sport"
Which is it?
Track riding?
Racing?
Two very distinct areas, but the track day programs have cut into racing. How many track day programs are there out there? Fewer racing organizations, certainly. Price hikes for racers? The result of escalating prices by race tracks that have been a result of various track day programs, cars and bikes, willing to buy into the weekend programs to get members.
How long will it be before the only opportunity to race is at an upper level? Will the track day really give you the opportunity to test yourself? Anyway, food for thought...
There's more to the "sport" than meets the eye.,..
Yes two distinct areas but at the same time very similar. Both involve people enjoying a particular form of entertainment which is riding high performance motorcycle on a closed course. Racing at club level is nothing but a hobby with the exception of a few who chase contingency money. What else do you really get out of it?
Do track days drive the market to such a degree that it dictates racers fees? I highly doubt it.
I understand the issue of supply and demand with regards to tracks and the limited amount of weekend dates available. From my experience track days have displaced far more none racing events and filed previously empty weekends. Which in effect helps out racing because new tracks will be built and existing tracks can obtain a level of profitability that allows them to budget improvements etc.
One could make the statement that track days have indeed become a force in the market place. But is this the result of the track day organizations driving this or is it in response from pre-existing need in the market place. I think the need was clearly in the market place and track days simply filled that need.
The truth of the matter is many people enjoy getting on the track with out "racing" involved. Track days give them that choice. NESBA did not drive this. The individuals did. Why is "racing" deemed anymore critical or any more viable in the market place? Trackday organization and racing organizations do not drive the market. Individuals do.
I can remember not long ago that we never ever got any practice days especially prior to RA. NESBA is offering a chance for racers to get some practice in prior to this event. First and foremost we are a trackday organization. An organization that has an ADVANCED level group that provides an excellent environment for racers to get some practice time.
:)
The MIC is saying that it seems like manufacturers finally sold more than one million bikes last year, or the year before...I don't know.
That's literally double from ten years ago.
Ten years ago, there were over 100 riders that actually did laps to try and qualify for the 600 Supersport race at Daytona. Tires were in the $300 range for a set.
Now, you have more spots on the grid that people that even attempted to race it.
52 weekends at each track. What are there, 45 or 50 tracks now? You're gonna lose some time with Christmas and New Year.
Racing, even at a sportsman level, still has to have some kind of spectator appeal. Certainly not going to have people attending on weekdays to watch a race of any kind, more or less.
TD's and racing are part of the same thing, motorcycling, but competing for a finite amount of space.
Have track days and racing days conflicted. Yes. I know so, I won't elaborate.
Has a TD guy had substantial success to be able to jump in and be ultracompetitive because of TD success in advanced groups?
I can't come up with any really good examples. I've seen successful racers show up at TD's for play time. How would you define success? I'd say that a rider would be able to come to an amateur road race and run inside the top five consistently. That should put a rider within a maybe three to five seconds within the fastest experts, the really fast ones.
Ah yes, good old MIC data. Although motorcycle unit sales have been steadily increasing and reached over a million units retailed. The majority of such unit sales growth was with cruisers, play bikes, and ATV's. Sport bike sales were basically flat comparably. Again it is the consumer deciding, not the industry dictating.
I will say that several NESBA track guys have gone on and done quite well in WERA and CCS events out East/South East. I even recall the term "NESBA Cherry Picker" being coined as a result.
For myself I don't use track guys becoming racers or racers doing track days as a litmus test. Ultimately the continued longevity of any organization,(in this case trackdays and race organizations), will purely be determined by the individuals in the market place and the response given towards those individuals.
NESBA does not force anyone to not race. NESBA does not force anyone to do track days. NESBA simply provides a venue for those who do chose to do track day to get on the track in a safe and controlled learning environment. It's the individual who chooses. The day that those individuals choose to race and to not do track days is the day NESBA ceases to operate as we have no control to drive it. In the meantime our goal is to be the preeminent provider of value added trackdays coast to coast. Southwest and Florida will follow. Plus NESBA has better weather. ;)
QuoteThe majority of such unit sales growth was with cruisers, play bikes, and ATV's. Sport bike sales were basically flat
As per their release...
"Cruisers remained the top sellers, followed by sportbikes and touring bikes."
"Compared with 2003, sales of the major brands last year rose 4.7 percent. Among those 12 brands, cruiser models, sportbikes, touring bikes, traditional (or "naked") bikes, and dual-purpose bikes led the way in percentage increases."
Where does it say sportbike sales are flat? ???
hey, I'm quite ignorant on the market data here, MIC or otherwise. But something I read in the latest industry rag on the recent kawasaki 636 success from last year included outselling their cruiser line with number of units sold - is this true? Is this even possible?
hmm, sport rider or motocyclist I think...
I guess I am simply saying what most everyone here already know;
It seems to me our sport is growing and we need someplace to experience this, race or practice or otherwise- safely.
it is an interesting market development for our sport that the race organizations themselves have jumped into this new business. It does make sense. They must see the opportunity in TD events and as such schedule race events for said opportunity, e.g. small local market sprint races get one race date and one TD date just to make this happen. Otherwise, what does the event organizer do? cancel the event.
So from a very high level, the market opportunity; is in essence, a migration of bikes, riders and the community from the street to the track in some fashion. Which prior to the creation of TD companies and road race schools, the Race Organizations themselves were the ONLY ones providing such access to the track facility. Perhaps, the market is simply moving in the other direction, which would speak to the race organized track day business involvement and interest.
(register racers & new racers comparison with history numbers would identify this, up or down I think)
Is this a fair assessment Elder, Wiser Racers, and Industry Gurus ?
Yeah, Mike, it's an interesting thing.
There were no track days when I started. I think you had the California Superbike School, Ed Bargy, and Reg Pridmore. Track day programs are a recent addition to the market.
There are more bikes in the market place. If X many people that buy sportbikes race, a small number. There were only races to do.
Then track days, competing for a finite number of days. And a number of riders.
Now, yeah, racing isn't for everyone. But it is for someone.
Racing cost more for an organization. Starters, flags, licensing, rule books, trophies, purses, accounting for 1099's...
So, the track day orgs have some real advantages. Less overhead. A track day can really leverage against an org. Unless you've got a good global insurance plan...how ya gonna afford a racing organization?
I think the industry is lagging behind, the American motorcycle industry. They drop gobs of money on a couple of teams and leave everything else in the dark. There is no feeder program for racers. You're not going to get fast, in the racing sense, doing track days. You've got to develope something somewhere...
Anyway...more later...I'm at work...
hmm. I think I am starting to at least get a sense of direction....
super, great point; I think there is an absolute distinction about the racer and track day enthusiast requirements. Perhaps that is precisely what these new organizations must deal with simply to address market demand.
Is there a place for sportbike road racing? Without question, and I would say defensively, grass-roots, club racing must be considered as a core feeder system, supported by the regional, and national race organizations for further promotion to the highest professional level.
I think we are getting the all both, especially if/[as] the market grows.
A growing market of Racing Programs
and an emerging market of Track Day Programs
However, as you further identify Super, one should NOT construe the other as comparable competition- clearly they are in different market segments with vastly different value propostions and challenges.
same sandbox - nonetheless 8)
Please feel free to contact me directly. I would be more than happy to share with you the MIC data in a private setting. I work with this every day. I do not have a vested interest with regards to interpreting MIC data.
I also have been involved with racing quite extensively in addition to conducting track days as well as being involved directly within the industry. I state this not to impress you but to impress upon you that what you experience may not reflect the greater picture as a whole industry wide.
Simple reality is that market conditions are always in a state of influx. Nothing remains constant and that things change. The market dictates, successful organizations adapt. See you at Chicago. :)
Garth,
well said;
I shall have to take you up on discussing the MIC data and your personal racing experiences; where you see this, our market, going as it affects racers and track day enthusiasts alike.
It is quite interesting to analyze our market as a whole. As you said, any successful business is challenged with the ability to adapt to the conditions the market presents- or dictates. No question. Consumers have more power or persuasion than business, arguably, which direction the market heads based on demand. Taken a bit further, this could be directly linked to such events as racing, road racing schools, or most recently track day experiences, test rides from the mfgs., etc.
I had a discussion with a gentleman in the industry recently about motovid.com and perhaps working with his program, which travels the country for cruiser events selling accessories, parts, etc. He thought we had a great idea/program. Made further sense for schools, learning aspect industry wide. However, as it relates to the cruiser market, not many cruisers were going to the track, except for schools- now perhaps track days....basically he discounted the sport bike segment. When he understood motovid.com was largely focused on sport bike riding, track day events and races, he simply said "not a big enough market for his interest, compared to the cruisers market. An opportunity to chase nationwide events and sell chrome schwag"
that was disheartening, albeit seemingly_hard_numbers_truthful
i dont get it... :-/
Currently most if not all of the heavy industry players are oblivious towards track day and track day participants out side of being affiliated with their own sponsored schools. It has only been recently that associate level business, such as yours, has become increasingly involved.
Although direct industry support adds no direct drive with growth, it leaves you, in effect, with a captive market. In my experience the track day rider has yet to be fully capped. On average the track day rider is one of higher social economics and has more discretionary income to spend. Plus they really take to heart the identifying aspect of the sport, meaning that what wins on Sunday truly equates into sales on Monday. They see the best on tack on TV and want the best. They also have the resources to obtain the best.
You are truly positioned well. I only see an ever increasing market for your services. People who think small ie, only "racers market" simply will loose out on the faster growing market which is track day riders. It is only a matter of time until the major manufactures realize this. It has just started. Now is the time. :)
amen Garth!