I am 22 and am activelly trying to figure out how I can begin racing in the 05 or probobly 06 season...
I am looking to find out how many of you have racing as your "primary occupation". (probobly not many.) And all the rest what do you do to finance such an expensive hobbie???
Thanks for any replies!!
Micah
Sponsors pay for everything of mine... not a dime out of my pocket. They even came to ME - I didn't go to them. No race resume needed. They've probably tried to contact you once or twice already and you didn't even realize it. Most people outside of the racing industry know them as "VISA" or "MASTERCARD."
;)
Ok, seriously... the folks that do it full-time for a living, that *I* can think of: Robert Jensen, Larry Denning, Mark Junge. Thing about these guys is that they are fast enough to top-10 (maybe even top-5) in an AMA race. The rest of us losers work day jobs. ;) So you gotta be pretty damn fast to be able to demand the money that these guys do.
There are sponsorships out there, some even cash. Do a search on here for sponsorship advice, there's a lot out there. My small tip: go with non-motorcycle industry companies. You'll get WAY more money out of them.
Oh yeah - I'm a project manager for United Airlines (for now, anyways... going back to school full-time in the fall of '05.)
CTO, Tek-Werks Corporation
And my sponsor's are listed in my signature line ;D
QuoteOh yeah - I'm a project manager for United Airlines (for now, anyways... going back to school full-time in the fall of '05.)
Hook a brother up with a discount
;D
http://www.racemotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=ccs1;action=display;num=1101443713
I devorced my wife, I got custody of my kids, so I use the child support money that I get to finance my year!
Seriousley though... Oh wait! I was serious! ;D
What that don't cover I cover myself. I work for Daimler-Chrysler in the material department driving a forklift.
I do however stash a little bit of my tax return to help the with the season budget also. Bern...!
Tax return money goes towards the racing season. Plus, Paul works maintenance at a manufacturing plant.
Sponsors? I'm Paul's major sponsor (me and my job). I provide the means to get there. :D
Dawn
I threw away a Biology/chemistry education and opened my own motorcycle shop. My entire business is built around road racing and selling parts and doing specialty service for race bikes. Trackside support is also a huge part of our business and is something we take seriously as a major part of our business and not just an add on. That way I can justify the racing and travel expenses as necessary to the success of my business!
i'm a butcher by trade,
but construction in chicago pays for the racing,wife , kid, and all the other luxuries in life. being in the union just covers the health insurance side of things.
going back butchering in 05.
going back home in a couple of days,
doing a full season of irish roadraces in 05
bye bye all.
oh yeah,
dragonfly,
do not try figure out how you are going to finance your racing,
just buy all that you think you need, race for the season, get three jobs in the off season and pay your bills then.
what i am trying to tell you is not to worry about the money end...........if you want to race.........go race,
Computer nerd here. I was working for Microsoft as a top tier support engineer, till they laid me off. ::) Basically I'm a network admin. I live paycheck to paycheck during the racing season. I'm living paycheck to paycheck now because I don't have a good job at the moment. Hopefully that will change before too long! :-/
QuoteHook a brother up with a discount
;D
http://www.racemotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=ccs1;action=display;num=1101443713
Uhhh yeah. I work for UAL. I can get tickets for next to nothing. I fly Southwest whenever I go anywhere in the US. That should tell you something.
QuoteComputer nerd here. I was working for Microsoft as a top tier support engineer, till they laid me off. ::) Basically I'm a network admin. I live paycheck to paycheck during the racing season. I'm living paycheck to paycheck now because I don't have a good job at the moment. Hopefully that will change before too long! :-/
Cingular Wireless is now looking for TONS of network admins. They merged with AT&T wireless and doubled the infrastructure and they're looking for people in:
Atlanta
Seattle
Chicago
The company I work for is a business partner with AT&T and the merger screwed us up completely on one of our products. So, I talk to now Cingular daily and they mentioned they are GREATLY UNDERSTAFFED in their words. Especially on the networking side. I can make some calls for you if you'd like or give you a few contacts "higher in the ladder" if you'd like. No promises though. I just know their looking. Shoot me an email if your interested:
ducelectronics@mac.com
Dan
QuoteUhhh yeah. I work for UAL. I can get tickets for next to nothing. I fly Southwest whenever I go anywhere in the US. That should tell you something.
I don't care as long as I'll make it to Vegas and back in one piece. I'll fly first class and be wasted before I get on the plane anyways ;D
I run one medical company and serve as director of business development of another... both companies sponsor me and one other rider!
We're lucky. ;D
The companies appear below.
P.S. If you're a man over 40 we've probably seen you, even though you've never heard of us.
I work two 30 hours jobs, one waiting tables and the other for the state of COLO (good benefits--ok pay) working w/ adults w/ mental disabilities/cerebral palsy/etc. I have just about all my days off though, so I'm thinking of getting another part time job....I do basic maintenance on computers on the side, some construction oddjobs, do most of the work on my vehicles to save money (gotta do something when I'm drinking beer!)........your 22 you said? waitting tables really isn't that bad, you can make $20 an hour pretty easy, just gotta find a nice restaruant and work your way up.....
.....what? oh good...another 0% interest balance transfer! I'll just keep transferring then................ :-*
Retired. ;D ;D
Thanks for all the replies!!! :D
I am looking at attending MMI.
I would like to focus whatever direction my career goes onto bikes.
The dream is to race bike Pro, semi-pro, but reality says I will probobly work on bikes for a day job..... Who knows.
I am looking at picking up an race ready Sv650.
Any other sugestions???
My husband and I are engineers, and we work for the same company. He's a mechanical engineer and I'm a chemical engineer. 2 engineers & no kids = funding for both of us to race each season. ;D
Certified Tool & Die Maker
Over the last 16 years I have built stamping dies, done trouble shooting and problem solving of dies in production, and also repaired and maintained them.
I have run most all machine shop type machines and have quite a bit of TIG welding experience along with MIG welding experience too. I have programmed, set-up, and run wire and conventional EDM's, CNC mills and lathes, and an industrial metal cutting laser. I have experience with manual and motorized/automatic multi-axes CMM's. Most recently I have also been involved in the Engineering department disecting drawings into their individual components and preparing them for CNC and Wire EDM. At the same time I check the designs for errors, problems in manufacturing individual components and the die as a whole, and potential problems once the die is in production. In other words I identify and eliminate problems before they are ever encountered, therefore reducing costs and increasing profits.
Avionics Tech
Racer since 1987. Kept me under employed for my adult life.
Was a college student while serving in the Nebraska Guard, graduated, worked on my graduate degree while working for, and being contracted as a racer to, the Bimota importer in the early 90's.
Then I was a contract courrier.
Moved with the promise of working for my engine builder, which fell apart before it even got started.
Worked for a golf car company...rental, repair, etc...
Then for a John Deere dealership for six years...ran some stuff...parts, service writer, so to speak, new sales, government bids...even worked on our wholesale parts stuff...
Riding school instructor for an independent program...
Part time selling trailers...
Now new car sales...
But I've been offered a new job that I'm going to take as a service advisor at a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealership.
But I don't think you're asking the right question.
I was able to race on a cheap budget and do pretty well. I mean, I'm one of the few that ever did a whole AMA season, on my dollars too.
Really, I learned how to do things for myself, who to trust, and what I didn't need.
If you had all the money in the world, you could really spend it on a racing budget. I've never had that. I never had a job that could supply that, and I never had a sponsor that could do it.
First, one needs to get fast.
You don't make money in the AMA stuff.
But you get noticed in the AMA stuff.
Unless you're making so much money in the local stuff...see Denning and Jensen for that.
Hope that gives you some ideas.
A word of advice on getting involved in the motorcycle industry as your primary source of income, some motorcycle dealerships won't let their employees have weekends off during the summer due to that being their busiest time. I have also heard that it may not pay as well as you may like, depending on your location, definately check this out ahead of time.
I agree with Dave on the expenses, it's very easy to get 'distracted' with what you spend your money on. I have seen way too many times that racers have purchased all the 'goodies' like an awesome tow vehicle or RV and/or a top end trailer only to no longer be able to afford to race. You really need to find a happy medium for your personal situation, a balance between what you need and what you want. For example I would have liked to purchase a brand new truck, but instead I purchased a used one for a great price. Generally a vehicle that is 2 -3 years old will give the most bang for the buck, still fairly new and hopefully dependable. That money savings alone on monthly payments will pay for my entry fees for almost the entire season (if you look at it on a yearly basis). Trailers and RV's can be along the same lines too, you can purchase one that is already set-up and only a few years old for substantially less money than new. If you have a certain amount of money your looking to spend on any of these items new, check and see what you could get for the same money or less in a used item first (you may be able to get a much higher quality item for equal money). Also remember, especially when 1st starting out, that having all the luxury items may ultimately prohibit you from racing at all.
The average time a racer stays in this sport is 2-3 seasons before quitting. The main reason is usually money, but some people also leave due to injury or some change in their life that prohibits them from racing (for example a job change or marriage to an unsupportive wife). The money issue is the major factor and is usually due to using credit to finance your racing. If you still have debt from your last racing season when starting another season your most likely seeing the beginning of the end. There are not alot of us around that have been involved in the sport for 5+ years, and each of us has our own way of making it work, but we all have to deal with the financial aspect in 1 way or another.
I have a suggestion that will help to keep you in the sport that I offer to anyone interested: DO NOT USE CREDIT TO FINANCE YOUR RACING! Debt is like wearing a concrete life preserver while trying to swim across the racing ocean. I tell people to figure out how much money they can afford to spend on their racing and set that money aside into an exclusively 'racing fund' account every paycheck, year round! I would suggest getting a racing only checking account with a Visa or Mastercard Check Card that can access this checking account, this will help when paying for entry fees, hotel costs, travel expenses, etc. (this will also help you to track racing expenses and help with taxes if you plan on writing off any of the expenses as a business - that subject has been dealt with elsewhere on this site). If you start doing this right now you will be several months ahead of the start of the racing season and have money ready to go when the season starts. This will also give you a little time to adjust the amount of money you set aside per week to an amount you can live without and have a cushion built up when you need money for repairs. Once you figure out how much you can spend every week year round you can get a good idea of how many classes you can enter per event, how many total events you can afford, how your tire and fuel costs will figure in, and etc.
For the past 3 seasons I have done the 'pay as you go' technique and can proudly say that I have had absolutely no racing debt at the end of every season since then. This is a massive burden off your shoulders and should be taken seriously since it will be a major factor in determining if you last in this sport. Good luck in your racing experience! :)
Well I absolutly do not have any dilusions of granger!!!!
Right now the biggest expense I have to afford will be a bike. I am looking at used already prepped Sv650, and have found that around $4-5000 will get me a sound bike. that is already prepped.
Tow vehicle. I have an older Subaru brat, that I know my way around VERY well, so I could do almost all my own wrenching when things go wrong.....
will take about $500 to get it back on the road, in sound condition.
For everything I have figured I NEED, I am thinking I can get a reliable race set up for around $6000-$7000. This includes fees to get licensed, and hopefully a few sets of tires to get me through a few weekends.
I already have a quality set of leathers, and almost all my gear minus a new helmet....
I have done only one track day with my Gs500, but was draging knees every lap and picking PIR apart very well half way through the day. So I dont really know how fast I will be able to be.... I hope I have some natural talent to build off of.
I have a Fiance that is mostly supportive, and although she isnt interested in racing she is very interested in doing some track days when she gets her new bike in the spring.
As far as I can tell this seems reasonable.
Now saving the money, and stoping buying stuff for my Gs will be hard...... Guess its time to grow up.
Hi, Micah - welcome to our little corner of the Internet. Lots of good people and sound advice on this forum.
Around here (Chicago area), new MMI/AMI graduates can expect to earn a whopping $12.00 per hour (and that's at the fancy-schmantsy Harley dealership). That's $480 a week, or about $25,000 per year. Before taxes. Before you factor in buying things you'll need to actually work, like tools. Keep in mind that your living expenses (rent, utilities, food, etc.) will be over a grand a month. Doesn't leave much left over for anything else.
For the first year or so after you graduate, you'll be doing oil changes and mounting tires... when the service manager sees you're not a hazard, you'll get "promoted" to doing new bike preps. Figure another couple years doing simple repairs before they let you near the "performance" stuff.
Personally, if I was gonna spend the kind of coin that MMI/AMI are charging for tuition, I'd sign up at the local community college and get myself a degree in business management... engineering... or SOMETHING... and get a part-time job in the service department of the local motorcycle shop to satisfy your love of things mechanical. You'll still be getting paid to learn to work on bikes... and in two years will have enough education to get yourself a job that will pay enough for you to live on AND go racing.
To answer your original question, I work in the corporate HR department of a customer-relationship-management outsourcing company. Not retiring any time soon, that's for sure. Luckily, I have one of the most supportive boyfriends out there helping with the technical end of my endeavor and keeping the "overhead" down.
And like Mike said... whatever you decide to do, DON'T LET VISA AND MASTERCARD BECOME YOUR "PRIMARY SPONSORS".
emergency physician. former nurse. There are plenty of healthcare jobs that pay well and provide flexible schedules for racing and any other pursuits, with training only 2-3 yrs. in duration.....
There are a few finances issues I guess I should make lite of...
I also currantely breed and raise reptiles. We are currantly getting into some very neat and rare species that will begin to bring some extra cash, starting somewere in the next year.
My Fiance read my last post and said she is more than mostly supportive about this "dream".
I am very lucky to be marying a well educated woman (Bachlers in Material science/enginering)
And has been open to sharing it as something we can do together......
Thank you guys for all the excelent input! I will keep much of what has been said so far for a long time. Its very nice to have an outlet to find this info... especially in the middle of winter.
As far as the credit issue, I had absolutly no intentions of doing everything via credit/debt.
Dosent sound fun.
bring on as much input as you want!!!
Thanks
Micah
QuoteMy Fiance read my last post and said she is more than mostly supportive about this "dream".
As far as the credit issue, I had absolutly no intentions of doing everything via credit/debt.
Dosent sound fun.
Great to hear that your fiance is supportive, that will prove extremely beneficial to your racing effort in the long run. I have personally known several racers who had to quite because their 'other 1/2' didn't see the purpose in racing. Just like with marriage, if somethings not acceptable before the marraige it will only get worse, not better. It would be a good idea to establish ahead of time what your commitment to this sport will involve both time wise and monetarily. Following an entire season along with the Race of Champions (ROC) will require quite a few weekends away from home and work which can be stressful on a relationship if she chooses not to come with you. The people that you will get to know thru racing are generally great people, this also includes the very valuable 'support staff' of freinds, relatives, and/or pit crew that you may have and meet at the track. Many of the wives that accompany their husbands to the track develop great relationships with the other wives and 'support staff' that are there also.
If you want to get up front consistently it will likely require that you run at least 3 or 4 classes at each event you attend. Track time under racing conditions is very valuable and will help you to get faster in itself. I would also suggest seeking quality instruction from someone who can work with you and provide accurate advice and instruction, like SuperDave here on the board. You've probably heard the phrase 'bad habits are hard to break', this applies to racing too. There are many bad habits that you learn while riding on the street that don't apply to the track and also some bad habits that can be learned on the track as well. Getting quality instruction to teach you the right way to do things, before you develop too many bad habits, will be one of the best things to catapult your racing in the right direction.
Another issue common to new racers is what to invest money toward on their bike. Absolutely without a doubt this would be suspension! If you did nothing more than have your bike set-up for you as a rider it would prove to be a very wise investment. Too many new racers worry about shaving weight off the bike or big $ improvements to the engine or light weight wheels when they should be concentrating on how the bike handles instead. This is where a qualified instructor can be of great assistance in getting you to a point where your bike handles properly. The money that could have been spent on motor modifications would be better spent on suspension set-up and qualified instruction. Be cautious though of who gives you advice, because there is alot of bad advice floating around out there as well.
When I cautioned you about credit I should have elaborated a little bit more. Most people don't go into racing wanting to do it all on credit cards, but things happen and that trend too often becomes a reality. If you can start out correctly and continue doing it all with cash then you shouldn't ever have to experience the debths of credit hell due to racing expenses. I have been there, as my freinds know, and to this day I am still paying for some of the racing expenses I incurred in the late 90's! This also forced me to leave the sport for a couple years, but I returned a much wiser person. If you keep your eyes open to this you will see many racers leave the sport throughout your racing career due to massive debt.
This sport will most likely become like an all encompassing drug for you which you won't have any real control over, which often times leads to the credit card use. You will also learn that alot of people outside of the sport won't want to hear you constantly talk about racing, some because they don't 'get it' and others due to jealousy. But that's what forum's like this are for, like minded racers! :)
dragonfly,
I'm new at this racing thing, too.
To answer your first question, I'm an engineering manager helping a software requirements group for a tiny electronics shop based in Schaumberg, Ill. I live in Phoenix.
I'd like to lay out my expenses and budget for racing for ya, in broad strokes.
Bike: '94 ZX-6E, $700
Race-Tech Springs and Emulators: $210
Tires: Michelin Pilot Powers (for cold winter tracks) - $230. I expect to lay out $230 every third month for Pilot Race or Pilot Powers for the season.
Mods to bike in prep for racing:
Swingarm lugs to accept spools: $80
Spools: $20
Race stand: $85
spare bodywork of ebay and levers/shifter: $140
specialty tools (like hex-bit sockets for the axle): $35
Safetywire, oilfilter, oil, tape, misc: $90
That's just the bike.
Trailer: $900 incl title/reg
Wheelchock/tiedowns: $180
This category is stuff I already have for the street, but some portion of it was due to planning for the track:
Leathers: $1540
Helmet: $410
Gloves: $165
Boots: $210
Back Protector: $90
This is before hitting the track ONCE with this bike. Notice no money on exhaust (it's the stock for now), jet kits, ignition advancers, etc. This is because I need to learn to make a slow bike go fast, and possibly learn racing while doing it. Think of it as a 'game-improvement club'... and after this season I'll buy a more competitive bike (or a slower one that will let me enter more classes).
California Superbike School: $620. They taught me some things I didn't expect - the importance of very fast steering inputs and the ability to overcome poor damping therein (and reducing the need to hang off as far) for one. Also that the track was what throws the endorphin switch for me - much more than the street. Lots of people try the School and decide the track is not for them, with me it was the opposite.
So, now, racing expenses I plan each month during the season:
Race entry fees, gate/pit fees: $160
Gasoline (pump gas for bike and tow vehicle): $55
Hotel, food: $70
Tires: $75/mo
Incidentals (brakes, sprockets): $40
But there will be big unplanned expenses, so I plan for the exhaust-scrapping lowside (don't think the bike will be too likely to highside, but a bad enough wreck will end the season) or the new helmet, and am trying to keep $500 in the 'crash' fund.
I don't think it's uncommon for racers to spend $15-$20k/yr on racing. I hope to keep it down to under $400/mo for 6 months, and want to get out of the year for $3000 including trackdays.
Gsxr Mike has a really good point about credit. I did/will do all of this in cash, and won't race if I don't have the money beforehand. I won't even repair the bike if I have not the money...
All I want out of this season is know-how and a white plate.
I'm a technologies technician (computers, networking, phones, etc...) for the state. Pay is much less than when I worked for a company but work enviroment is rather "relaxed" here :)
I sell used BMW car parts sometimes to fund my BMW car hobby too.
I don't race much but do a few race weekends each year for the rush. I pay all my own racing bills, no one sponsors dead-ass-last...
I agree with the advice given in this forum on not using credit for racing. I used credit cards this year, although I never charged more than I could payoff.
One bit of advice that hasn't been mentioned though, is MAKE SURE YOU HAVE MEDICAL COVERAGE PRIOR TO GETTING ON A RACETRACK!!!!
Even though I think your chances of getting seriously injured (and I meen life threatening/disabled) are higher when you ride your bike to work, the chance of having a minor crash is much higher on the track. Minor crashes, and I mean stitches, broken fingers or toes, ect can put you in debt for years. A ambulance trip to the hospital with a fractured leg can set you back 20 to 30 grand easily. Not to mention (God forbid) a serious injury. Not only does the hospital trip cost a lot, but you also have to figure that a minor injury like a broken ankle can set you out of work for a while.
As for what I do, I am in the Navy, I am a Nuclear Propulsion Tech and serve on Subs. For the next Nine months anyways. Anyone here looking to employ me next fall? ;)
You might do what Dave Estok does. He has a successful racing career and still manages to operate a growing business. :)
I own a furniture store.
Oh and being divorced helps the cause....nobody reminding me of how much money I am blowing
QuoteYou might do what Dave Estok does. He has a successful racing career and still manages to operate a growing business. :)
LOL!
;D
QuoteMods to bike in prep for racing:
All I want out of this season is know-how and a white plate.
Stock shock?
The geometry of the bike is ultimately the key to the bike's handling and how you are able to control it.
One can learn how to ride bikes that work "poorly", or one can learn to ride a bike that has the proper mechanical advantage of correct geometry...trail, anti-squat, etc.
I don't know the GMD Computrack web link, but I know my shop's link... http://4and6.com
Riding a bike that isn't set up correctly is like trying to do a paint by number painting with one color. You can only do so much by watering down the color and all. It won't be right, won't look right, and it isn't a reflection of what you might be capable of...but it does show that you're patient...but how much time does that cost? And how much time, effort, and money does one waste as a result?
Just a thought for you...
QuoteStock shock?
I put in the race-tech, and cut the preload spacers, put a taller Michelin front (120/70) on the bike, dropped the triples on the forks about 10mm to slightly lower the front overall (installed F3 clip-ons along the way), then set the sag with the rear preload. That's all I can afford for suspension until March.
I hope to find a set-up guru to go over the bike with me at the bike's first trackday (next weekend). If consensus opinion is that the rear really sucks, I guess I'll be looking for professional help before the first ASMA race (conveniently located in March:D)
dave
i have a degree in architecture, that i rearly use. do some freelance drawings from time to time. my "real" job is i'm a home builder. make descent money at it, but i'm always looking for ways to make more ;D
QuoteI put in the race-tech, and cut the preload spacers, put a taller Michelin front (120/70) on the bike, dropped the triples on the forks about 10mm to slightly lower the front overall (installed F3 clip-ons along the way), then set the sag with the rear preload. That's all I can afford for suspension until March.
Ok, that's the fron forks. Stock shock?
I guess what you're doing with the forks is kind of backwards from the direction that I might go.
QuoteI hope to find a set-up guru to go over the bike with me at the bike's first trackday (next weekend). If consensus opinion is that the rear really sucks, I guess I'll be looking for professional help before the first ASMA race (conveniently located in March:D)
dave
Real guru's are hard to find.
Most people don't last very long in this industry. They come in get everyone excited and leave with the money. And racers don't last long either, so they are here and gone in a couple or few years. Some of the people that are around for a long time, won't share ideas, or riders just don't talk to them. Sometimes those experienced riders just don't understand things themselves.