Well, long story short, my wife's father passed away tonight from cancer. I have a personal dillema to deal with, and I'm not sure who I can ask opinion's from so I decided that you guys are probably the best resource because of all the different "opinions" on this board. This is not a joke, and I am being 10000000% serious.
More or less, for the last year my now father in law has been battling cancer. Over the last year, he's been mostly in the hospital, and thru pure hell. He left behind 2 daughters (my wife and her sister) and his wife. Other than that, really not much more family. So, my now mother-in-law has been financially struggling due to her sole income paying for everything. He is retired military, and insurance coverd a majority of the medical expenses. The only problem is, the income of one person soley barely covered the rest of the bills. At one point, I loanded my mother in law quite a bit of money to help her pay her bills. She's been working on and off due to having to be at the hospital after all the therapy, surgeries, ect. She has a steady job as a government employee, but has taken so much time off over the last year that she has been on un-paid leave for the last month or so knowing that he wouldn't be around much longer. So, she's more or less broke, and her income can't support her. He had life insurance and such, but until the insurance pays up, she's pretty much broke. Ontop of all this, she still has to cover all funeral expenses and I doubt she has enough to do it ( I didn't ask.)
So, here's my problem. My wife's sister, whom is married and has one child herself, has yet to do anything to help her mother. Both she and her husband have full time jobs. They also always say how broke they are and how they can't pay for this and that. Now, fortunately I make enough money so my wife doesn't have to work and can stay home and raise our daughter. This for some reason makes her sister think I am a walking ATM. So, on "behalf" of my wife, I loaned my mother in law several thousand $ because she wasn't working and such because of her husband dying of cancer. The problem is to this day, my wife's sister has yet to offer a single penny to help out her own mother. Now, as I said, she says she's so broke this and that, but then I start "seeing" things that indicate that she's not as broke as she says she is. I call it: SELECTIVELY BROKE meaning she only has money when she wants something for herself. For instance, right after I loanded her mother the money the first time, her and her husband went out and spent more than I loaned her mother on a time share at Disney World. So, obviously this doesn't make me too happy. The issue isn't that I loaned her mother the money, it was that she didn't even offer to help her own mother. I think you get what I mean by "selectively broke."
Now that he passed away, obviously my mother in law is going to need some financiial assistance. I have no problem what so ever loaning her more money. I do however have a problem with her own daughter not offering to help with a single penny and playing the "I'm broke" role when any money subjects come up. To this day, I haven't brought the subject up to anyone other than a couple of friends that have no really good opinion. I haven't said anything to my wife, her mother, or her sister. I honestly hate my sister in law and it's well known, but nobody really knows why. I decided to keep my mouth shut while he was hospitalized and not add any additional grief to the pile and bite the bullet. I'm now on the hot seat again as the only person who has any money to loan her for the funeral costs ect. I know for a fact that my sister in law and her husband have money, but I also know they aren't going to give it up either. So, what do I do?
1. Go after the sister in law and confront her on the issue and her responsibilites to help her mother.
2. Bite the bullet and not say anything and just loan out the money and pray I get it back some day.
So, one day this is all going to come out when I get pissed and blow my top. Is it too soon to mention this subject to my wife and sister in law? I know their father died this evening but everyone saw it coming and also felt it to be in his own best interest. This "struggle" with my father in laws cancer has been going on for over a year. When they diagnost (sp) the cancer it was already Stage 4 Brain Cancer and they gave him 6 months tops back then. I guess it's just hard to explain.
What do you think the right thing for me to do is in this situation? To me the money part of it isn't the issue. It's more or less the principle of me being the only option because the others capable of it are lying of what they are really capable of. I know her mother can't cover the costs alone. Obviously her own daughter could care less. My wife told me several times the first time I loaned her mother the money that she doesn't know when or if I'lll ever get the money back. Regardless, I'll still give her the money. Now I just have to figure out when and how to address the issue with her sister, who is so broke that she's only going to Vegas in Feb. for 3 days instead of a full week yet can't loan her mother any money to help pay to have her own father burried because she is so broke ::) >:(
Oh yeah, the life insurance issue is kind of dead. She won't get that money fast enough to pay for all the funeral expenses. Ontop of that, she hasn't paid her mortgage on the house in a few months because of only having her income and not his to help. The cancer was kind of a shock to the entire family, and their combined income was just enough to cover everything. They lived pay check to pay check more or less. When he quit working a year ago, she was on her own for everything and doesn't even make enough a month to cover the mortgage alone. From what I was told, his life insurance will pay off the entire mortgage plus give her $100K. I doubt that life insurance will pay up before Friday of this week. The funeral arrangements are being made tomorrow.
Rather than saying something now, I personally would wait for a while before confronting your sister in law. Discuss it with your wife when things calm down a little. I know your frustrated at this point but saying something now could be disasterous. Bite the bullet "for now" and take time to talk to your wife in depth and explain your concerns abour your sister in laws "selictive brokeness". Sorry about your father in law by the way. My .02 Good luck! Mark B.
Tough spot to be in. You're not an ATM. You worked hard to get where you're at, more than likely, and it sounds like the sister is a deadbeat. Let the insurance kick in and pay the rest off. If you've already "loaned" 1000s then it's someone else's turn. Family loans are tricky as most of the time there is an unspoken rule they're not to be paid off unless you get it in writing. If anyone approaches you two for more money show 'em the current balance sheet. Have your wife deal with the sister.
Aw hell, just sell a couple bikes and pay for the funeral and catch the mortgage up. ;D Sorry about the loss either way.
Mark is right. Now isn't the time. Do your duty to your wife and pay what you have to get the task of burying the old guy, but figure it's spent money, not loaned. Hell, just tell the Mother-in-law that you and your wife think it would be an honor to help bury Dad, pay a share, and don't even ask for it back.
That would be an honorable thing to do, and how much of a piece of @#$% does that make the Sister-in-law look like? If you get a chance to PRIVATELY dig your spurs into the sister-in-law at her most vulnerable moment, go for it, WFO!
And later, maybe in a year or more, you'll have to tell the wife exactly what you think of the sister. that can't simmer forever.
Vets usually get a burial package, don't they?
Have you mother-in-law talk the the funeral home regarding an "assignment of life proceeds." This is where a form is signed by the beneficiaries and sent to the life insurance company stating that the life insurance company will pay the funeral home directly for the cost of burial. This may be a way to have the funeral done without and upfront $$$.
Family situations are difficult.
Good Luck,
Dawn
Dan, you've got mail.
Unfortunately I've been in your wife's position. My father passed away three years ago from brain cancer. He was 41, I was 20. Lucky for me, though, he had taken care of his arrangements so I wouldn't have to. Personally, I would have a quiet sit-down with your wife and her sister and husband. Explain what the costs are and offer to split them. If she says she's broke, remind her that "broke" is relative. I'm sure it will be hard to stay calm when you're seething (I would be too, no judgement) and I know it's a very difficult situation to be in but it's better to at least put it on the table so she and her husband know that you expect their help, even if they aren't willing to give it. It just might make them think before they schedule another trip.
Please pass on my condolences to your wife.
Thanks guys :)
I lost my mother to cancer almost ten years ago.
Didn't have the problems you are having in this situation.
But while my mom had cancer, a good friend of mine that worked for CCS wrote a note to my mother.
"You always keep praying, and you never give up."
For just about anything, that statement works.
People have reasons and excuses. Regardless, now is not the time to bring those things up. Best thing to do is be a man, help everyone carry the pieces of their lives and keep your chin up to help those of your family.
I'd wait a few weeks then have a 'talk' with your sister in law.
This is only part 1, wait until your sister in law tells every one how much she did when your moter-in-law dies and there's inhereitence to be fought for ::)
QuoteThis is only part 1, wait until your sister in law tells every one how much she did when your moter-in-law dies and there's inhereitence to be fought for ::)
Seen this one already.... how sad.
You really discover a person's true nature when dealing with a loss such as this.
Dawn
I saw that coming also, but I really don't care. She can have it all for all I care. I don't expect anything from anyone nor do I want anything from anyone. Since my 18th b-day I've been on my own and worked for everything on my own. I actually like it that way. To give you an idea of how my borther and sister in-law are, when my father in law was first diagnosed with cancer, my brother-in-law said to me on the side:
"When he dies, the mother in law is moving in with you because you have more money and a bigger house."
At that point, I knew what the deal was. They already made plans and decisions for themselves. It's sad really.
Dan,
Call me at work (313.465.1555) or my cell (248.217.4670) and we can discuss this a bit further.
Otherwise....
As I read the abovr, you don't really have a dilemma (all options are bad and one option must be selected. You do have a tough situation though. I'm not trying to be a jerk by hanging of strict definitions. It's just that how one views a situation plays a big part on one's attitude and thinking.
K3 is right. Since your father-in-law retired from the military there are burial benefits that will both enhance the funeral ceremony and pay (or defray the cost) for the headstone. He is also eligible for burial in a national cemetary (too bad the one planned for the Holly area isn't ready yet). Since this was foreseen a few months ago, possibly your in-laws have already begun looking into this unbeknownst to you. You may be short on time, but call me. I can get you started w/ the tel. numbers. We will (and do) jump theough our grommets backwards for our own. [As an aside, if he was former Navy, then allow me to suggest the playing of the Navy Hymn at the funeral - especially the version sung by the male choir - it's VERY moving].
H.
As for the money.... first re-adjust your attitude about the money. It isn't you lending the money. It's you and your wife. You may be the one earning it, but it's family funds.
I can understand how you feel seeing your sister-in-law & her husband not moving to assist financially (oh yeah, your father-in-law should is eligible for certain medical expense coverage. Assuming his terminal care was outside the Tri-Care and VA system, your mother-in-law should look into possible partial payment). But don't let that eat at you. It's all in you. Would you feel better if they contributed 25% and you guys contributed 75%? WOuld you feeling be different if the total bill is $1,000? What if it is $8,000.
Your anger is based on you wanting them to behave according to your sense of morality and obligation to one's parents. There are some interesting analogies like being hung up on how much other people may contribute to any charity or cause but I'll spare us all of that philosophical exercise.
As for "confronting" sis-in-law & hubby, first, how is the relationship between her and your wife? Because however you approach them, you are VERY likely to create a wedge in their relationship. Especially since you will, of course, have discussed this with your wife. Sis and her hubby will see that it's not just you (who everyone already knows has a "thing" against her).
If your wife and her sister get along well, then it isn't right for you to hurt their relationship over a bug up your butt. In any case, K3 and Bernie are absolutely correct though that now is NOT the time to bring any of this up.
Damn that's a lot.
Give me a call and I'll be happy to assist as best I can.
H.
Well, my wife and her sister don't necessarily get along, but they do interact because they are family. In my wife's words: If we weren't related, we definelty wouldn't be friends.
As far as the money, your absolutely right. It is me and my wife loaning it or giving it out. When it comes to contribution, the amount isn't the issue. The issue is that they haven't offered anything. Not a single penny even when they know that their own mother can't live off of what she makes with the bills she has. Then, to put the icing on the cake, they spend money they allegedly don't have on things to benefit themselves. So far, I have given my mother in law $6,000.00 Now with the funeral, I'm expecting another $6 to $10,000.00 My sister in law and her husband haven't offered a single dollar. Not a penny. Even if they picked up the bill on something like the luncheon for a few hundred $ it would be great just because they did something other than point my way.
The funeral is being held at a private funeral home. He is retired Navy, and they are having some type of "Navy Funeral" for him, but his burial is at a public cemetary. They've had the plots for some time, and the expenses now are the casket, opening and closing of the grave, and the headstone and such. I have no idea what any of this stuff costs but I'm assuming it isn't cheap. My mother in law wanted an autopsy to "really know" what killed him but since he died of "natural causes" she has to pay for it. An autopsy according to the hospital is between $1200 and $2000. When it was mentioned and he was stilll allive in a coma, my mother in law said she wants to do it, but doesn't have the money. I then started asking "financial questions" about insurances and such. I offered to pay for it, but she said later on she changed her mind. Now she has no choice as to what expenses she will incurr because of the private funeral and public burial location.
My entire frustion with this whole issue is the morals of my sister-in-law and her husband. It needs to be addressed and soon. I can't believe that someone who could help won't help, especailly their own parents. I guess maybe it's just the way I was brought up. Children have a responsiblity to help their parents.
There is no such thing as a loan to family. Everytime you loan family money you have to look at it as never getting the money back.
I would do everything as if the sister in law wasn't there. Do what you think is right, regardless of other family participation. You are helping your mother in law out, because that is what you choose to do. Do not let the sister in law affect your own moral judgements.
Dan,
Hey, I'm not sure if we've met or not, seems like I remember meeting you once, but cant recall totally..
Anyway, Sorry for yours and your wife's loss..
And please, if my opinion seems to be in anyway offbase to you, just ignore it...
Like You, I am glad to exchange ideas and opinions here with these Girls and Guys...
here goes:
I know my opinion will be different bcuz I know what "broke" is... and can partly understand the sister in law a bit in this sittuation...
What I mean by that is, She may be harboring some past hurts that wont allow her to help her Mom (and or Dad)... She may be harboring what a lot of people think is just "WHY ME" syndrome... people sometimes CANT bring themselves to OVERLOOK themselves "this time around"...
I personally looked out for everyone around me, and ended up forgeting about MYSELF just as everyone else did!
not saying that this is the case, but I am getting to my opinion...
first, I think YOU should be honest with YOUSRSELF to the point that IF YOU dont wanna help mother in law (deep inside) then DONT. (I know you said you dont mind)(and I do believe She'll repay you).
Second, AND MAJOR, ease your mind about this sister in law, convince yourself that she DOESNT EVEN EXIST, ie.. If your wife was an only child, there would only be you and her to help mom.
I say this bcuz you can spend time on people who ARENT WORTH YOUR TIME!!!
when you end up blowing your top, how far will it go?
I also want to add that you are better than a lot of people to help as much as you have so far, I, personally have a set of rules that START with
I'm dating, sleeping with, supporting, and or marrying YOU! NOT your family, YOU will be MY wife, and take MY name, not reverse.
I know I'm an idiot to some, but WE CANNOT BE ALIKE...
If you can afford to help the mom, and dont mind, just do it, dont be deterred from who you are because of someone else...
Lastly, MY OPINION of the talk with the sister in law..., I'm different, so I wouldnt even talk to her beyond hello and good nite... her and her hubby should be happy with each other, I'd prob move my wife a lil farther away, but Let my wife know everything about how I felt, AFTER ALL, THATS WHAT IT'S ABOUT, YOU AND YOUR WIFE, working together til DDYP...
BUT if you have it IN you to let her know how you feel, then it really doesnt matter how you do it,... I would say, yeah, talk to her privately, but I dont feel that ANYTHING you say to her, or how you say it will change anything... they're adults, and the sister in law was raised by the same couple that raised your wife, so if she dont see it now, what can 15-30 minutes from you do???
2cents
Ike
Be cool.... 8)
At this point, nothing is "off base" and I appreciate all the opinions and help.
When it comes to the way I feel about things, I do wonder exactly what I got myself into. I did marry my wife and not her whole family, but with her came her family in some aspects. I chose to marry my wife, so therefore I took in burdens one way or another that I normally wouldn't have. My responsibility to my wife is what made me give her the money. I support our family, and "our" money pays for everything. My wife has no income of her own and I support us. Therefore, our money is being given in these instances. I don't have an issue with spending the money because I chose to when I said "I DO" in both good and bad instances. My dilemma is that I feel that any time something happens, my wife and I shouldn't be the only one's carrying the responsibilites of supporting her family.
In a weird way, I'm kind of praying for my sister-in-law's and her husbands misfortune with finances. I hope one day they come to me for some type of financial assistance. This way, I can say : I'M BROKE TOO !
I can't stand either of them and it's known by all, but nobody really knows why. This is exactly why.
To me family is family, good and bad. You help your family and loved ones. Ducking the situations and playing off as I can't do anything isn't acceptable to me.
At one point in my life, I myself was truely broke. I mean literally homeless. I was going to school and was completely on my own. They have money, just choose not to step up to the plate. They both have new cars, a brand new construction house, ect. They aren't broke. They don't know what broke really is. They choose to be broke when they don't want to help. That is inexusable in my book. My problem is that as all of you know, I have absolutely no probelm expressing my opinions. Sooner or later it will come out. I'm just frustrated to the point with this whole thing that it may come out at the wrong time. She pushes the wrong button, and I"ll go off and I know it.
My only questions for my sister in law is:
Your dad died, your mom needs help. Why are we the only one's helping? Why is it whenever something comes up, you disappear from the picture and point the finger at us to handle it? Your always so broke, yet you can go on vacation every 3 months and buy whatever you want yet when someone needs a single dollar, you expect us to filp the bill and say "Call Dan, he makes alot of money and has it."
>:(
Well, yeah...
You can't make people do things...even if the person knows that it's the right thing do to.
You've got to focus on what you can do. Focus on the task at hand.
You can be polite. You can be cordial. You wife and your mother-in-law need you for you, and really, I'm sure, they need you because of you, not the money.
Yeah, the money will make some issues easier to get through, but the lover and caring that exist between you is of far greater value than something monetary.
This isn't easy. You can't change anything you don't do.
And when in doubt, Dan...pray.
Since Your father in law is a vet, He is entitled to be buried in a National cemetary. His wife is also entitled to be buried with him.
My wifes grandfather past away a few years ago and he was buried at the National Cemetary at Rock Island Arsenal. I know there was not much expense involved. The visitation at the funeral home and the casket or urn for the ashes. Uncle Sam picks up the tab for the plot.
My wifes' mother also passed away recently. She is buried at the same cemetary. I'm not sure how the government does it, But I know my father in law will share or has a plot next to her.
Dan, I am in a hurry and have not read this thread all the way through but... I would think the mortuary would defray the costs until the life insurance comes through using sometjhing as collateral (race bikes?). Also, the same may be said of the cemetary and get H-man's help. Being a former Marine (who was smart enough not to retire!) I know the VA does help retirees and the immediate family. Also, if he was a Vet of War he may be eligble for even more. Also the VFW would help alot if he were a member. Kinda funny how much we are worth when we pass. Hang in there and my condolences to you and your wife.
Hey all,
I won't speak for Dan, but I'm gonna guess that he and his wife are pretty tied up right now assisting his mother-in-law coping and with arrangements.
I spoke with Dan yesterday morning and gave him the 411 on some of the burial and survivor benefits. Told him he can contact me nay time for additional help. But like I noted above hhe's probably pretty busy.
One nice thing that we discovered is the Navy (probably all the branches) will provide $6,000 to the immediate next of kin to help with burial expenses and we'll get it to the family within 24 - 72 hours of notice to a Naval Activity. 8) That's in addition to some other benefits which should prove helpful given the families situation.
Anyway, I expect Dan will be back in a bit and probably still seething about this in-laws.
H.
I REALLY hate to say this, but you're a good man, H.
;)
QuoteI REALLY hate to say this, but you're a good man, H.
;)
Ditto!
Thanks guys. Yesterday was the funeral home thing, and today is the burial. I'm actually on here just to waste time while the women get ready.
The Navy is assiting, thanks to H. We didn't know about half the things going on with them. He is having a full "military funeral" with the guns and all that stuff. The Navy was actually pretty helpfull. On the financial side, we haven't really done anything with them, but they are taking care of alot of things.
The whole "family assistance" hasn't been taken care of yet with the Navy, meaning the $6K and such. I still put up the money, but they are still doing it. The timeline in which things happenend didn't really allow for the paperwork shuffle, so I put up the cash for now. I'm going to get it back as soon as all the stuff is done I guess. It doesn't matter, whatever happens happens. :-/ The funeral home put a real strict timeline on things, thus the one day viewing and such.
As far as the sister-in-law and her worthless husband, I"m not done with their ass yet >:( I'm going to hold off on that for a while, but it's still going to get addressed and my mother in law said something about it herself, and knows I"m pissed.
One thing interesting about the Navy funeral is that the funeral precession (sp) is done in accordance to rank. A "officer" and a retiree have different types of funerals. I guess for an active officer, the whole deal is huge with gov. vehicles and such. I spoke to some guy who handles the issues of burials for personell and he's pretty cool.
Thanks for all the help and info. guys. Especially H. I'll buy the beer when we meet :D
Well, I know that H loves STT days at Gingerman, so maybe you could bring the.... um, er.... Oscar Meyer weinermobile.... cough, sniff.... and actually do some riding? You do ride, don't you?
Just think, Dan. You, me, H, maybe Don and Sean.... All sitting in front of the "K3 Casa de Ghetto," drinking beer, eating BBQ, telling lies and watching sattelites wizz across a signature G-Man starry sky.
(This blatant commercial for the joys of racing brought to you by the United Federation of Racers Against Depression) ;)
Quotedrinking beer, eating BBQ, telling lies
C'mon K3, we now very well that nor you or Dan ever lie... ;)
Edgar, K3 doesn't lie, it's "research" for his "Fiction" novels. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sounds like a winning plan to me K3! 8) There's something about your motor rig that just reminds me of growing up in Brooklyn ;)
Maybe it's the clandestine ops side of me, but did you deliberately make a phonetic acronym? ;)
"You afraid?" ;D ;D LOL
H-man
You're pretty sharp, H. I guess I'll just forget about trying to use the old "subliminal psyce" tactics on you...
FOOL! :o Those weak jedi mind tricks won't work on me!! ;D