PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in
Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil
in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. I
bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land
using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends in the oil
industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.
ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:
I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making
Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure, Houston
replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.
I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in
borrowed money.
I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American
history.
With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's
appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over
500,000 votes.
ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal
record.
I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one
billion dollars per week.
I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.
I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.
I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month
period.
I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S.
stock market.
In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and
that trend continues every month.
I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any
administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice,
has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.
I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by a U.S. President.
I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most
corporate campaign donations.
My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends,
Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S.
History, Enron.
My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure
my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.
I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation
or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica
Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest
corporate rip-offs in history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in
U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil
industry was revealed.
I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.
I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded
government contracts.
I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in
U.S. history.
I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the
history of the United States government.
I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.
I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove
the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.
I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
I refused to allow inspector's access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees
and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election
inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).
I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President
since the advent of television.
I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.
After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst
security failure in U.S. history.
I garnered the most sympathy ever for the U.S. after the World Trade Center
attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in
the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.
I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously
protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for
protests against any person in the history of mankind.
I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, preemptive
attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against
the will of the Unit ed Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the
world community.
I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty
benefits for active duty troops and their families in wartime.
In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking
Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.
I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%)
view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.
I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD.
I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to
justice.
RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's
library, sealed and unavailable for public view.
All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt
companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-president, attended
regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for
public review.
PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004
Sorry. I could'nt help myself. ;D
i had a bumper sticker made that said bush is bad but kerry is worse!!! ;D
Quotei had a bumper sticker made that said bush is bad but kerry is worse!!! ;D
Mine says "Vote the son-of-a-Bush out" ;D
God bless America! 8)
haha yeah i saw a couple of those today i couldnt stop laughing
Vote
Yes, but only if you actually understand the value of what you're doing. Voting because you should or you like or dislike someone...
Stupid.
And with that....
The major pharmaceutical companies in the US provided almost 90% of the
nations flu vaccine at one time. They did this despite a very low profit
margin for the product. Basically, they were doing us a favor. In the
late
80's a man from North Carolina who had received the vaccine got the flu.
The strain he caught was one of the strains in that years vaccine made
by a US company. What did he do? He sued and he won. He was awarded
almost $5 million! After that case was appealed and lost, most US
pharmaceutical companies stopped making the vaccine.
The liability out weighed the profit margin. Since UK and Canadian
laws prohibit such frivolous law suits UK and Canadian companies began
selling the vaccine in the US.
By the way...the lawyer that represented the man in the flu shot law
suit was a young ambulance chaser by the name of John Edwards.
Tell me how government involvement makes things less expensive.
We should have federal government run health care?
Someone explain it to me in very plain English, and then I'll understand.
As for war....
The UN approved these matters as a proper course of action.
When the time came to act, some of those with an economic vested interest decided to balk on any action.
You can be part of a solution or you can claim to be part of a solution.
In 1776 France helped a small group of colonies.
It took that group until 1787 to develop something called the Constitution.
Success in anything is not measured in minutes but over years of work and fortitude.
To call any work that soldiers...American, British, Polish, or Iraqi...do in the theater of the Tigris and Euphrates to be anything but honorable and noble and additionally worth the cost...
If that takes a drunk, criminal to figure that out...
Well, then all the holier-than-thou's that inhabit the world should step back and recognize what it's like to live under tyranny...
I think the Pole's might be the only one's that really understand the value.
When soldiers of a place of freedom and prosperty fight for others...they have the most to loose don't they...
And they give to that others might have the most to gain...because they have nothing...lives so bleak that there is no way out other than death.
Politics or better- the issues involved when voting for someone to run this GREAT country of ours is something I am very passionate about. Sorry to say as a teenage and young adult, I sort of floated thru the issues. Age does tend to change the way you look at things. Military Superiority, a SMALLER government, and NO MORE entitlement programs pretty much top my list...everybody's is different.
I ask you- how is SOCIALIZED MEDICINE going to benefit this country. Do you really think a doctor worth his salt is going to 'give' you his time when he has spend 100's of 1000's of dollars-not to mention his time- putting himself thru school? ::)
So many uninformed Kerry promoters...no idea what they are promoting. Cant explain any policy or talk intellegently about issues they are voting for...this is what will take this country to H*LL in a hand basket.
I cant imagine any one of you spending hard earned money on some scheme because someone told you it was the way to go...yet so many people vote in issues/candidates with out doing your own research. Your POWER to VOTE is priceless- just visit a country or talk to people that have lived under communist rule. When you VOTE- VOTE responsibly! Know what/who you are voting in and the weight your vote holds.
A democrats hand in my pocket is NOT my idea of the AMERICAN DREAM.
KC-- That was funny. I sent it around the office and we all ( dem and rep) cracked up.
SD--- I have a question for ya. JK was a laywer and won his case. He did his job; but how is that situation any diff from all the people that sued MickyDs becasue their kids got fat. The parents should have controled their kids eating habits Passing the buck then and now nothings changed
As far as the WAR-- I did my time... My only issue is that they were not trained for this type of war and don't have the equipmet they need.
VPL- I hope one day you have a chance to work for or in the government.
We all have our issues that concern us more than others, we all have our own beliefs and value system. We all have a dif view point based on what we have seen, done, or whatever.
There are issues that effect us all but the fact is the issues that face me and my family are never on the top of anyones list.
SD, I take voting very seriously. George Bush was my comander in chief. I didn't like the direction he was going while I was in and I don't agree with it now. After 911, most of the world was on our side. Now it is worse than before. 1000's of young soldiers are dying in a war that was unecessary. My job in the military was to keep Saddam from harming people. I think we were doing a damn good job. Al Quida bombed the world trade centers. There were no WMDs. Will either canidate do a good job of protecting our country? I think so. I'm just not happy with the direction Bush has taken us. ;)
A question for everyone who voted today.... I won't begin to get into the political aspects of who you voted for or why.... But - what did you experience today? Long lines? Longer than you've ever seen?
Just curious if all the talk I'm hearing about record numbers voting is consistant across the country.
My particular case is that I live in a St. Louis suburb and voted at 8:45 this morning. I was number 231 to vote at my precinct. I remember past elections (not necessarily national election years) where I voted at 6:30pm and was number 250 to vote. I only had to wait about 10 minutes to get in this morning. Local reports mention waits as long as 1/2 hour in some precincts.
Regardless of your political views - please remember how very fortunate we are to live in a country where we have the freedom to vote for the candidate of our choice in an honest, manageable election that is held without fear of being assaulted for our beliefs.
Here's hoping that we do not see a repeat of 2000 where it took the Supreme Court to finally render a verdict on the winner, months after election day.
Rick
I waited in line an hour and half in AZ to vote. I was there at 6:00AM. My wife went later in the day and waited 2.5 hours to vote.
QuoteSD--- I have a question for ya. JK was a laywer and won his case. He did his job; but how is that situation any diff from all the people that sued MickyDs becasue their kids got fat. The parents should have controled their kids eating habits Passing the buck then and now nothings changed
Recognize that I'm on that side of the issue...
Where's the common sense? Feed your kids MD, etc...all the time. Your fault not MD, etc.
Vaccines...yeah, nothings perfect.
I expect that some well made motorcycles pop because of manufacturers defects too. It's part of the roll of the dice.
If you're a moron and do something stupid, fine. Even then, I'm not sure too many people are worth the millions of dollars that some lawsuits "award" to the survivors.
I think that used to be called a tragedy.
We can make anyone "responsible" for anything.
If I teach someone some new racing skills, they get so hooked on racing that they loose their job and go bankrupt...
Is that my fault?
That's why I had to incorporate.
That cost $750 right out of the box in lawyers fees. Accounting, etc.
I find the entire vaccine topic very ironic. A vaccine gives you a version of the disease you are vaccinating against. This causes your body to build up immunity to the disease. Therefore when you encounter the disease, your body is already able to fight it, thereby preventing it from affecting you. The draw back is due to the fact the vaccine actually has a version of the disease in it, a small number of those vaccinated will contract the disease from the vaccination. AFAIK there is no way around this.
I was told that the virus in the vaccine is dead and cannot give you the flu virus. I was told the illness some feel after the shot is from your immune system getting weaker while it develops the antibodies.....
That is what I was told from my military healthcare specialists ::) :)
QuoteVote
Yes, but only if you actually understand the value of what you're doing. Voting because you should or you like or dislike someone...
Stupid.
And with that....
The major pharmaceutical companies in the US provided almost 90% of the
nations flu vaccine at one time. They did this despite a very low profit
margin for the product. Basically, they were doing us a favor. In the
late
80's a man from North Carolina who had received the vaccine got the flu.
The strain he caught was one of the strains in that years vaccine made
by a US company. What did he do? He sued and he won. He was awarded
almost $5 million! After that case was appealed and lost, most US
pharmaceutical companies stopped making the vaccine.
The liability out weighed the profit margin. Since UK and Canadian
laws prohibit such frivolous law suits UK and Canadian companies began
selling the vaccine in the US.
By the way...the lawyer that represented the man in the flu shot law
suit was a young ambulance chaser by the name of John Edwards.
Sorry SD, that story is B.S.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_flu_shots.htm
Someone earlier said about the Dems blindly following what Kerry said. I find that to be more true of a Republican supporter.
The fact is both candidates stretched the truth a lot during the campaign.
But to say that Edwards did that (sued for the flu vaccine) without checking the facts is something I would expect Cheney or O'Lielly to do.
To say that Kerry's healthcare plan was socialized medicine is also crazy! At least he had a plan that would extend coverage to people who had no chance to get any at all.
What was Bush's plan? Oh yeah, that's right, create a tax shelter to put money in for unexpected medical emergencies. Sure, the people that can't afford to pay a healthcare premium at all now, can sock away all that extra money into one of those accounts. ::)
QuoteSomeone earlier said about the Dems blindly following what Kerry said. I find that to be more true of a Republican supporter.
I would personally say that I see it from both sides. The problem is too much information... Or rather, too many sources. Everyone is slanted, and you get their spin on the facts. Not to mention that the entire political process is flawed to the point of being a marketing campaign. People have all these avenues for information (TV/Radio/Newspaper/web/word of mouth) and far more often than not, they are incorrect or are not telling the 'whole' story...
The label throwing and bashing has been interesting in many of my forums, email lists and personal encounters. "all you damned left wing..." "leave it to the GOP" etc etc... This is disturbing to me.
I don't think *ALL* of either party is wrong/corrupt/etc, and likewise, I don't necessarily agree with everything my "party" represents.
At this rate, our kids will be soon be reciting "two nations, one under God, one under....."
It truly is disturbing...
Some of the militant actions that were taken by certain supporters were very disheartning. The stealing of signs, slashing of tires, and displaying anti-_______ on buildings without permission was very, very low....
I hope that never happens again.
Thank goodness it's over for another four years ;D
Dawn
P.S. Wall street likes it too. ;)
QuoteI would personally say that I see it from both sides. The problem is too much information... Or rather, too many sources. Everyone is slanted, and you get their spin on the facts. Not to mention that the entire political process is flawed to the point of being a marketing campaign. People have all these avenues for information (TV/Radio/Newspaper/web/word of mouth) and far more often than not, they are incorrect or are not telling the 'whole' story...
The label throwing and bashing has been interesting in many of my forums, email lists and personal encounters. "all you damned left wing..." "leave it to the GOP" etc etc... This is disturbing to me.
I don't think *ALL* of either party is wrong/corrupt/etc, and likewise, I don't necessarily agree with everything my "party" represents.
At this rate, our kids will be soon be reciting "two nations, one under God, one under....."
It truly is disturbing...
I do agree with the statment that neither party is 100% perfect. There are things I do like about each party.
I also agree that its sad about what's happening with the Pledge of Allegiance. :(
As far as the vehement views on politics... I've talked to a friend here at work and he mentioned something about the fact that since the internet, people can now log on and talk exclusively with people that share the same views. That tends to make people shortsighted and not very likely to open their mind to another viewpoint like they would have in the past just talking to friends and other people at parties, etc..
Now, I just hope no one takes the polling results to court for the next month or two.
I think that is why (the internet) the election was so close. The parties had so much demographic information available to them that they could instantly see where they fell in given areas, and target themselves to that area. Then follow up to see the results.
This could all be done near real-time, and they latched onto whatever fear/need/desire the situation dictated.
Problem is.... It's only going to get worse....
QuoteGeorge Bush was my comander in chief.
A different one was mine... H W Bush. Also, Reagan and Clinton.
QuoteAfter 911, most of the world was on our side. Now it is worse than before.
After September 11th, the world was shocked. On our side...for what?
What were they going to do? Wait for us (US) again.
When will someone else stand up and do something. If Bush did not stand up and say something, would another "world leader" have said something?
It took Reagan to call the USSR the "evil empire"...and it took him to tell Gorbachev to "tear down this wall"...I remember that. And I remember the feeling of that was the first time that anyone really finally pointed to someone outside of East Germany and blamed the wall on what happened in Moscow.
The Israeli's seem to stand up for themselves and there are lots of people that don't like them. Might be a good thing...
World on our side...
UN resolutions. Was that enough for you, or do we have other tests?
Thirty nations helping specifically in Iraq. Yeah, they ain't doing it like we are, but do they have the population or GNP that we do? No, of course not. What would you expect of them.
Quote1000's of young soldiers are dying in a war that was unecessary.
Well, actually A thousand.
Vietnam certainly had more.
Korea certainly had more.
Do I need to continue?
More Iraqi's have died.
France helped us with our revolution...one that was apparently only supported by approximately a third to the colonists.
QuoteMy job in the military was to keep Saddam from harming people.
The passive way that Saddam was being appeased wasn't making the world better. It was just keeping him AND the thugs around him from posing an immediate and direct threat to others around him. Kind of like putting a body on a grenade.
QuoteAl Quida bombed the world trade centers.
Ok, here we go...
This is network marketing, folks. You've got a higherarch of people with ideas. You've got people at the top. You're gonna have Al Quida, Blahblah Jihad, etc. They all just hate America for supporting Israel or whatever their cause is against something. So, you go out and recruit some fairly educated individuals that are motivated. They go out and get some others that aren't so bright. You train them, get them into thinking that they have a higher purpose and all. You've got all those pawns there doing the bidding of the higher ups...You don't see bin Laden blowin' himself up. You don't see Saddam out there doing it. But Saddam was happy to give a family a "cash award" to a family of a suicide bomber.
If you whack Saddam or bin Laden, you still have an area ripe to get people out blowing themselves up.
Educate these people that have no hope...hey, they might start reading John Stuard Mill and recognize that some of the stuff they hear and read might just be plain stupid and not worth acknowledging.
QuoteThere were no WMDs.
Not correct. For many years there were WMD's, they were found by UN inspectors, and they were destroyed. In the recent past have any WMD's been found? No, but that does not mean that they won't be found either.
There was reasonable intellegence, which we all know wasn't very good, which wasn't very good because US intellegence was cut...it takes years to get back into contact with the spooks you need to really work with for good info..., that said there was potental WMD's.
Everyone recognized that Saddam certainly wanted them.
You have a military background.
So, you recognized that bio and chem weapons are a bit different, don't you? It's not like a factory building B29's or anything. We're talking labs or things to store bits of individual products that would only make the WMD when brought together. Yeah, you might not find mustard gas, but you might find the ingredants for it.
I can make an explosive. I have two ingredants in the house that I would use. Give me time and my stove and I can make it. Tada! SD's WMD...
QuoteI joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL.
AWOL - absent without leave...
Something that would have actually been taken care of under the UCMJ...would have been in a record. Isn't there.
However, for those of us that have been in the Guard...well, sometimes you need to be places, etc. Reservists have regular lives too.
QuoteBy joining the Texas
Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.
Ok, this was something that people did. Some went to seminary schools, some joined ROTC (run over to canada), some committed suicide. Regardless, he was trained in a plane that wasn't even used in the Vietnam theater...so, who's gonna pay to retrain him...
QuoteNever once made Honor Roll, but gained admission to Yale.
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.
I was on the honor roll, never even applied to Yale. Couldn't afford it either. I think I had a low C average to at my meager university.
QuoteI ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in
Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil
in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
Wow, imagine... a guy can't win everytime. Often, following the winner is the first place looser.
Wasn't Edision bankrupt several times?
Finding oil in Texas might be hard with all the companies IN Texas actually having the oil. If it were so easy, would we need oil from outside the US?
So, what's our moral here? He's quitter?
QuoteACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:
Enough accomplishments that they supported him for two terms as president....Gore didn't win his state. Edwards didn't win his for his side. Kerry did ok on that one...
QuoteACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal
record.
Is he the only one that admitted that he got caught?
QuoteI invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one
billion dollars per week.
Don't forget that we still occupy Korea. Oh, and a lot of Europe...but they hate us right? Or are we protecting them? We had troops in Moscow in 1918 to protect the Czar too...probably why the Russians didn't like us for so long.
I guess my two boys are safe though.
QuoteI spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.
My twenties are still good for that MidEast gasoline down the road...must not be completely bankrupt.
QuoteI set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month
period.
Sounds like a personal problem. I've got too many credit cards myself. Maybe I should apply for a grant, eh? Who's responsibility is this? Mine, or Bush...hey, if Edwards can blame it on Bush, maybe I can get a "cash award"...
QuoteI'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any
administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice,
has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.
Sign me up! Maybe I'd be richer if I hung around rich people? Maybe they know something....
QuoteI am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most
corporate campaign donations.
Yet, somehow, Kerry outspent Bush $330 million vs $250 million...
And if he received more donations...maybe it's because he's doing a better job.
I'd expect Mladin to get more money than someone like the Bostrom brothers...
QuoteJust curious if all the talk I'm hearing about record numbers voting is consistant across the country.
I live in a small community. We have a building that houses the village and town halls. I was in and out after dropping the kids off at school very quickly, but the cars lined up outside...it was unbelieveable.
In the county I live in Waukesha County in Wisconsin, apparently we might of had a record...almost 98% of registered voters voted.
First, I'll say again, like I have in other posts, I'm not registered as a Republican.
I voted.
I do not think that I have ever lambasted Mr Kerry unless someone wanted to bring up the other side. Everyone has issues.
Bush should admit mistakes?
Yeah, and would you expect someone on the Yosh team to admit that they completely tuned their bike the wrong way causing them to win a race? No. Hey, there might be things that the current adminstration isn't happy with.
No plan in Iraq. Right. There's one, but why should anyone need to know it. If we knew it, then someone that didn't want it to work out would know how to screw it up, right? Pretty simple.
I went to bed last evening not knowing the outcome.
Got up recognizing that I didn't know what happened. Regardless, I needed to get up, get ready to go to work and get the family ready for school...Government still doesn't really do that now does it.
I voted how I saw fit.
There are things that Kerry had done that I was in complete disagreement with and things that I held in discust. I never hated the man.
By this morning, it appeared that there was the opportunity for him to "do the right thing", as some were calling it. I felt that he would either have the honor and integrity of the man that he was as a Seaman for our country and complete that task...or do otherwise.
I commend him on his decision.
God Bless America.
QuoteYet, somehow, Kerry outspent Bush $330 million vs $250 million...
This site...
http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/index.asp
seems to say Bush outspent Kerry by 50 million. Where are you getting your figures?
ABC had it on Good Morning America...
There's more internet problems...
Really, you can post anything.
If it's in text, well, it always looks real. I can't give good answers. TV media seems to bomb at times...(CBS?)
The internet really allows the rusty wheels to scream for oil. In many ways, are we better off with out it?
I know that there is some information that I don't talk about on it, 'cause I just don't want it out. I'll keep certain secrets...LOL!
QuoteTo say that Kerry's healthcare plan was socialized medicine is also crazy! At least he had a plan that would extend coverage to people who had no chance to get any at all.
::) I dont believe you have ever stood behind someone covered in jewelry in the grocery store-buying steaks with welfare money-then proceeding to their luxury car. Dont tell me I am quoting any 'urban myth' because I see it first hand on a daily basis. Our government run welfare system is a freakin joke!!! What makes you think Government run Health care would be any different?!
QuoteTo say that Kerry's healthcare plan was socialized medicine is also crazy! At least he had a plan that would extend coverage to people who had no chance to get any at all.
What was Bush's plan? Oh yeah, that's right, create a tax shelter to put money in for unexpected medical emergencies. Sure, the people that can't afford to pay a healthcare premium at all now, can sock away all that extra money into one of those accounts. ::)
Webster's
socialized medicine n (1938) medical and hospital services for the memebers of aclass or population administerd by an organized group (as a state agency) and paid for from funds obtained usually by assessments, philanthropy, or taxation
Kerry can call it anything it wants, but it still the same thing.
As for health care costing too much...
Which came first the chicken or the egg...
Did doctors increase their prices because or did litigation and insurance costs make it a business decision they had to make?
Similarly, is CCE getting rich with CCS? Again, have costs risen for racing entries because someone wanted them to or did they go up because of increased litigation and insurance costs?
If Vanson leathers has to pay its workers $20 a hour plus benefits, does that allow them to compete against Dainese very well when the leather portion of their suits are made in South Asian places where there isn't the litigation and insurance costs and workers are paid less than $3 an hour?
I'll agree with VPFL...there are individuals on the welfare books that have things that I don't. Cable would probably be a start. I'd like to have it, but I can't afford it. My car is from 1990.
Yeah, there are some that really need it....but there is a certain sense of entitlement.
You put hot coffee in your lap, you get burnt.
Oh, the coffee was too hot... Did you know that coffee is a drink that is hot? Ok, well, fine. My extreme "award" would be that one get's their medical bills paid and the company fixes the problem....Really the problem is that an individual customer makes choices, good or bad, when compared to common sense.
You don't dive into a lake without knowing how deep it is right? Might be one foot deep. Why should hot coffee be any different?
Fix that mentality and people won't loose jobs and things will be less expensive.
Bush wanted to limit litigation stuff right off the bat. But there's all those lawyers in politics...Anyone name a few?
:'( KC it's sad to say but everything that you have said about Bush is true and cannot be disputed.
Or not? ;D
Oh, and the same can be said about Kerry supporters also. ;) Next election I'm not going to watch any TV and stay away from the internet. ;D
Quote::) I dont believe you have ever stood behind someone covered in jewelry in the grocery store-buying steaks with welfare money-then proceeding to their luxury car. Dont tell me I am quoting any 'urban myth' because I see it first hand on a daily basis. Our government run welfare system is a freakin joke!!! What makes you think Government run Health care would be any different?!
Been there done that! But the key here is I don't concern my self with them or how they live there life. I don't care what they have or don't have. I've been tought that if I want something I have to work for it.
The welfare system does not work? Why... Its a family thing... Kids have been born it seeing how the system works. it works fine for there parents so it will be fine for them. Yes there are other programs that are there to help people get off welfarebut they don't work either. There is no true insentive for people to get off welfare. Oh... The newest people on welfare were not born in to it. They lost there jobs and had no other options.
To mix Health care with welfare was just goofy.
SD --- very :o :-[ to see you agree comment. But life goes on.
Please remove this thread. I shouldn't have posted it. :-[
Why KC?
No one is mad or fussing... we all just see things form a diff view point. and we all have voiced our opions with out any profanity or yelling.
Just becasue I have a diff view point from SD does not mean anything but we agree to disagree and move on. such how life should be
Kevin, it's not a bad thread. It's not like a WERA one with stuff flying off the walls.
Welfare.
The farm system gets a lot. Hard for me to answer that. We need food and we need the ability to have people there all the time making food...and an excess of it. If you don't...well, prices can go through the roof and you don't have food.
Then what?
My father grew up on a farm in Nebraska. When he came back from his service in the Korean War, they finally had electricty.
Anyway, the reality of his life was there were actually times when they didn't have money or food. He went to bed hungry, for real.
My kids say they're hungry because they came off the sugar rush of chocolate chip whaffles...
Anyway, welfare needs to exist in some form.
My sister and myself are adopted. My sister was born with a bit a brain damage. Our family doctor knew my mother well...she was a nurse...and he recommended that my mother NOT adopt her. My mom did. My sister is higher functioning, but she's not like you and I.
If all of my family and I died, well, she doesn't understand money. She enjoys TV, she cleans up after herself, she reads almost anything and really likes that. But try finding job for her. Very, very hard. She can't drive, but my mom tried to teach her.
However, if you are an able bodied person...
Back to the farm...
My father was born in 1933. Pretty rough time.
Pictures of my father on the farm when he was young...well, you see open fields. No trees. Really, Nebraska didn't have any trees around. The Dust Bowl era hit and made a big mess. FDR put people to work. They went out and built "shelter belts" in the farmlands to keep the prevailing winds from destroying the topsoil. That work gave people a sense of value and worth. Put food in their bellies. Kept families together.
Now...
Well, I don't have cable, but I'd bet that most government housing does. Mel, like you said, you were taught to work for stuff. Same thing for most people; they should work for stuff. Got to break the cycle of dependence on programs. Yes, there are people that need it...that's a moral issue isn't it? And there are people that milk it...that's immoral.
The only other industrialized nation, considered to be 1st world on the planet, besides the US, who does not have nationalized health care? South Africa. Why would we want to be in the same boat as South Africans whose motives for refusing their impoverished healthcare are pretty transparent?
It's a good thread. It is a good thread as we can discuss this here in our country w/o fear of retaliation or persecution. Well, actually retaliation is pretty common. Anyway, thanks for your service KC. The next four years with George not having to worry about polls or re-election will be interesting.
Quote The only other industrialized nation, considered to be 1st world on the planet, besides the US, who does not have nationalized health care? South Africa. Why would we want to be in the same boat as South Africans whose motives for refusing their impoverished healthcare are pretty transparent?
I'm not sure if comparing health care systems of the US and SA is relevant to how other things work inside a country. Additionally, hasn't aparteid been gone for years?
If everything is so bad here...you'd think that people would stay in their country then, wouldn't you, rather than come here?
Mexico has socialized medicine coverage. However, I believe that more people are coming to the US rather than US citizens going to Mexico.
QuoteKevin, it's not a bad thread. It's not like a WERA one with stuff flying off the walls.
Welfare.
The farm system gets a lot. Hard for me to answer that. We need food and we need the ability to have people there all the time making food...and an excess of it. If you don't...well, prices can go through the roof and you don't have food.
Then what?
My father grew up on a farm in Nebraska. When he came back from his service in the Korean War, they finally had electricty.
Anyway, the reality of his life was there were actually times when they didn't have money or food. He went to bed hungry, for real.
My kids say they're hungry because they came off the sugar rush of chocolate chip whaffles...
Anyway, welfare needs to exist in some form.
My sister and myself are adopted. My sister was born with a bit a brain damage. Our family doctor knew my mother well...she was a nurse...and he recommended that my mother NOT adopt her. My mom did. My sister is higher functioning, but she's not like you and I.
If all of my family and I died, well, she doesn't understand money. She enjoys TV, she cleans up after herself, she reads almost anything and really likes that. But try finding job for her. Very, very hard. She can't drive, but my mom tried to teach her.
However, if you are an able bodied person...
Back to the farm...
My father was born in 1933. Pretty rough time.
Pictures of my father on the farm when he was young...well, you see open fields. No trees. Really, Nebraska didn't have any trees around. The Dust Bowl era hit and made a big mess. FDR put people to work. They went out and built "shelter belts" in the farmlands to keep the prevailing winds from destroying the topsoil. That work gave people a sense of value and worth. Put food in their bellies. Kept families together.
Now...
Well, I don't have cable, but I'd bet that most government housing does. Mel, like you said, you were taught to work for stuff. Same thing for most people; they should work for stuff. Got to break the cycle of dependence on programs. Yes, there are people that need it...that's a moral issue isn't it? And there are people that milk it...that's immoral.
SD--- I told you that night that we had a lot in comman.
To be truthfull I could have been one of those welfare babies but Thank god for my MOM! she refused to get on it. When I was younger we were poor as dirt but happy becasue we are together. there were times when we had no food, hand me down cloths and Xmas gifts were not given . she worked so hard to do for my brother and I first. WHen she took a job with the gov thats when our lives changed. Sitting here typeing this made me think about how far I've come and grew up. I got my work ethic from her .MOMs rule!
Yes SD I do agree there are people who need it.
I MUST BE STUPID BECAUSE I THOUGHT THIS WAS A MOTORCYCLE WEB SITE. ???
Mel, I think it's because we look so similar...
Did I tell you that Ike and I were switching identies at the last Blackhawk...again, people have a hard time telling us apart. ;D LOL!
I though we thought a lot alike anyway.
The best way isn't always the easiest way. As with about everything, right? Yeah, I can come up with some things that it's easier to do one way, but it usually requires money or something...so...
Anyway, here we are...
We're buying drugs from Canada. Where do those come from? Well, companies. And from Canada. Recently, I heard that Canadian pharmacies were going to limit outside purchases of drugs. So, that's going to dry up.
Why are US prices high? Well, back to a list of things. I'm sure the drug store and the pharmasist have to have liability insurance. So did the builder of the building. So did the lady that drove her car to the drug store to buy some shoe inserts. Sadly, the insert maker couldn't afford to compete against the manufacture of similar inserts that saw fit to move their manufacturing overseas where the costs weren't so high.
Socialised medicine...how's that going to pay a doctor that spends hundreds of thousands on his education? Might not even be able to pay his loans back after he gets a bill for liability insurance. Socialized medicine certainly isn't going to pay MORE to providers.
I was lucky when I had to have my hand rebroken and pinned back together that my fathers insurance covered it. The guy was good. Wasn't cheap, but my hand is way better. You think socialized medicine would have sent me to a sports doctor? And then one that specialized in hands?
Anyone been to an emergency room? Ever feel like it was registration for CCS races?
It is my opinion that the US people in the health care network are the best anyone has to offer. We have foreigners here to learn from the best. I think it has deteriorated, but I would say that it has come as a result of increasing pressures from Medicade, Medicare, etc.
Welfare...back to that.
And back to my sister.
Would I expect here to go on welfare...not that she's know how to do it anyway...I've always had the mind that should that opportunity come up, she'd probably live with me and my family, my aunt or someone. Sometimes help comes from other places too. Seems like there have been lots of celebrated cases of siamese twins being separated. Seems like we had the services available here in the US. I'm sure those were paid for with private funds and through donations...certainly didn't come from socialized systems of medical networks of the resident's country.
QuoteI MUST BE STUPID BECAUSE I THOUGHT THIS WAS A MOTORCYCLE WEB SITE. ???
LOL, yeah, but were still scholars and patriots too, right?
We're just really fast.
QuoteBeen there done that! But the key here is I don't concern my self with them or how they live there life. I don't care what they have or don't have. I've been tought that if I want something I have to work for it.
The welfare system does not work? Why... Its a family thing... Kids have been born it seeing how the system works. it works fine for there parents so it will be fine for them. Yes there are other programs that are there to help people get off welfarebut they don't work either. There is no true insentive for people to get off welfare. Oh... The newest people on welfare were not born in to it. They lost there jobs and had no other options.
To mix Health care with welfare was just goofy.
When my tax dollars go into a broken system, it does concern me and I'm surprised it doesn't concern you. Another classic 'broken' system that does not work Social Security. This is a system that has seen its day and should be slowly terminated. It will never happen but this is how I feel. I take issue with government taking money from my pocket to take care of me in any respect.
Why dont we get a system that gives Americans the choice to pay into or not pay into. Doctors can choose to participate in the program or not...(I know why this wont work and so does every person that pushs for this type of health care system)
My brother said to me the other day...why is it that banks are willing to give money to people who already have money. But those of us that really need it and dont have it, cant get it. (yeah he loves Nader). I said to him simply- You build equity in yourself and a bank will give you money. This is something that has taken me 40+ years to do. It was not always an easy path- and thank god it was not- for all of the hard times made me stronger and wiser.
I love being goofy ;D but not when it comes to money and politics. 8)
Welfare...let's go back to that.
Are the newest recently jobless? Probably more than jobless.
Anyone got any figures?
How about welfare as it relates to the people that have been in it the longest?
If I had problems, I could probably find a few friends or family that would help me out. Not the choice for everyone, but...
QuoteI take issue with government taking money from my pocket to take care of me in any respect.
Man, are you sure. Maybe we shouldn't collect taxes for the police and firefighters then. What about FEMA? What about all the subsidies the gov't gives to farmers. That is in effect "taking" care of you.
I'm not neccesarily arguing for gov't healthcare.
I was diagnosed with bladder cancer almost two years ago. Two operations and five months of chemotherapy later I seem to be OK now. Thank God I happen to have health coverage.
If I did not, what would've happened? I think I probably would not have went in to see anyone until I was in pain. By then it would have been way too late (I still may have been too late, only time will tell).
I guess if I had no health care coverage and my hand was broken real bad, I'd rather have it fixed (maybe not a renowned doctor), than do it myself.
A lot of people that don't have healthcare coverage end up going to the ER when it is too late anyway. What if they had a simple illness that could have been treated months earlier for 50 bucks. Now that they waited and are in the ER, it costs the hospital 10's of thousands.
Since we're arguing that lawsuits cost so much and increase premiums, why does it cost so much to become a doctor? Why is college so expensive? Maybe if we go that far back and decrease the costs there, doctors wouldn't have to charge so much to pay off those large loans.
QuoteIf I did not, what would've happened? I think I probably would not have went in to see anyone until I was in pain. By then it would have been way too late (I still may have been too late, only time will tell).
Which came first?
Before our time, you went to the doctor when you were sick.
Now, we wait until it's bad because we know it's going to cost more.
Why does it cost more? Litgation, lawsuits, the partial socialization of medicine. Any arguments?
Gov't payment of Medicare and Medicaid bills is slow, as I understand it. And it has to be discounted. So, if you're a paying customer, you have to subsidize it...just like we pay more in the US for drugs 'cause some countries won't abide by patents or they require lower costs...to what end? Our development of new products gets undercut by copycats and price controls.
If you have a family to feed, why be in the medicine business?
Remember, you probably work for a business in some kind of field. You could go back to the barter system if you'd like.
Dave,
I guess for me it just comes down to this. If there is a way to help people out that can't afford health insurance, than why not try?
Like you said, your Father worked as hard as any man. Perhaps harder than some of the richest men in the world. Should he be denied reasonable healthcare becuase he didn't have the opportunities other people had?
I'd rather have to wait for an operation than not have a chance of ever getting one.
QuoteMan, are you sure. Maybe we shouldn't collect taxes for the police and firefighters then. What about FEMA? What about all the subsidies the gov't gives to farmers. That is in effect "taking" care of you.
Not all taxes are bad. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. For you taxes for your firefighters and police are different than mine unless of course you live in Broward County. Our firefighters are probably the highest paid in all of FL and as for our police force...dont get me started.
FEMA is a very worthy cause and I have no problem with my tax dollars going there.
I whole heartedly agree with SOME subsidized programs- farmers being one.
QuoteNot all taxes are bad. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. For you taxes for your firefighters and police are different than mine unless of course you live in Broward County. Our firefighters are probably the highest paid in all of FL and as for our police force...dont get me started.
FEMA is a very worthy cause and I have no problem with my tax dollars going there.
I whole heartedly agree with SOME subsidized programs- farmers being one.
Ah, seeing that you're from Florida I can see why you'd think FEMA is a good thing! ;)
On another forum I'm on, some people thought that FEMA monies should not have been used in FL after all the hurricanes. They argued that people that lived there knew the risk and therefore should not be allowed federal assistance. ???
QuotePerhaps harder than some of the richest men in the world. Should he be denied reasonable healthcare becuase he didn't have the opportunities other people had?
When I hear comments like this- I cant help but holler "look out your on a slippery slope". Why is being rich a bad thing? Hard work does not mean entitlements. Some of the most labor intensive jobs are the lowest paying-pay being relative to where you live.
When I meet someone that is sucessful, I pick their brain for as much as they will give me. Knowledge is power and can get you most anywhere you want to go in life.
QuoteAh, seeing that you're from Florida I can see why you'd think FEMA is a good thing! ;)
On another forum I'm on, some people thought that FEMA monies should not have been used in FL after all the hurricanes. They argued that people that lived there knew the risk and therefore should not be allowed federal assistance. ???
I thank God I have never had to find out if I am insured enough to cover loss that most of those people saw. I pay a bundle in homeowners and windstorm. I am sure it will increase :o-that is the price I pay for living where I do. 8)
And for Fed Asst arguement I would write: What about all the people that live in 'tornado alley' or the people that live in the severe north that gets ice storms each year?
QuoteWelfare...let's go back to that.
Are the newest recently jobless? Probably more than jobless.
Anyone got any figures?
How about welfare as it relates to the people that have been in it the longest?
If I had problems, I could probably find a few friends or family that would help me out. Not the choice for everyone, but...
I would need to call a buddy at the ST dept to get numbers.
If I had problems, I could probably find a few friends or family that would help me out. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I knew two that would ;D
QuoteWhen my tax dollars go into a broken system, it does concern me and I'm surprised it doesn't concern you.
1. All of your tax dollars do not go into welfare and you know that. I know where some of your tax dollars go. ;D I do not know where all tax money goes but i wish I had the brake out. Oh don't be surprised by my answers since you don't know me and I don't know you.
Another classic 'broken' system that does not work Social Security. This is a system that has seen its day and should be slowly terminated. It will never happen but this is how I feel.
2. You may get your wish. As you do know that Bush wants to allow the young to not pay into SS.
I take issue with government taking money from my pocket to take care of me in any respect.
Why dont we get a system that gives Americans the choice to pay into or not pay into. Doctors can choose to participate in the program or not...(I know why this wont work and so does every person that pushs for this type of health care system)
My brother said to me the other day...why is it that banks are willing to give money to people who already have money. But those of us that really need it and dont have it, cant get it. (yeah he loves Nader). I said to him simply- You build equity in yourself and a bank will give you money. This is something that has taken me 40+ years to do. It was not always an easy path- and thank god it was not- for all of the hard times made me stronger and wiser.
I love being goofy ;D but not when it comes to money and politics. 8)
Did I tell you that Ike and I were switching identies at the last Blackhawk...again, people have a hard time telling us apart. LOL!
Please don't tell me Ike was in a thong!!!!!!!!!! LOL
QuoteDave,
I guess for me it just comes down to this. If there is a way to help people out that can't afford health insurance, than why not try?
Like you said, your Father worked as hard as any man. Perhaps harder than some of the richest men in the world. Should he be denied reasonable healthcare becuase he didn't have the opportunities other people had?
I'd rather have to wait for an operation than not have a chance of ever getting one.
I'll start with the first one...
Reduce the cost of health insurance...not make it affordable. If you make any thing or service, it has costs associated with it. Can anyone disagree that people in the health care industry need to be paid a reasonable wage?
They have to pay for their insurance and taxes too. So, what if we reduced their insurance costs by limiting litigation? Don't we on a regular basis hear about "awards" made in many instances and even "settling out of court" for things that, on the surface, seem maybe a little strange? Certainly, there are cases that are a little out of whack.
But going back to rich people and businesses...
There seems to be the need for some to bash on those that have the money. Sue me and I'll give you part of my debt. How would that be? Being rich isn't about genetics. Can be about long hours away from a family. Yeah, we can make a case for the minority few that are born or are married in to wealth. Not the normal case though. Remaining well off is certainly an art also. You can blow it quickly, or run the business into the ground.
I personally feel that it is the litigous nature that the United States has is one of the reasons for rising costs in almost everything. Health care hits us hardest as it hits families into making decisions about when and where to take care of family health issues...dire ones at times.
Certainly, we need taxes to support programs of immediate care. However, I don't know if you have heard this in your communities, but I now here how government agencies like to have higher wages for government workers to "compete with the private sector"...Where's the competition? Government agencies, local, state, and fed, usually have incredible health and retirement plans that "private sector" businesses can't compete with. Additionally, government doesn't compete against other businesses. Isn't the stability and benefits program the government job has the thing that makes it competitive against the private sector?