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Racing Discussion => Racing Discussion => Topic started by: K3 Chris Onwiler on October 27, 2004, 03:47:56 AM

Title: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: K3 Chris Onwiler on October 27, 2004, 03:47:56 AM
2004 was a missed racing season for me , because I just didn't have any money.  2005 may shape up even worse.  Why?  I blame gas prices.
I drive 100 miles a day to get to my job and back.  I also have a huge, 1912 house with drafty windows and no real insulation.  Gasoline prices are the highest they've been in my lifetime, and heating costs are just as bad.  Of course, I'm not getting paid any more money than I was when Gasoline was $1.50 instead of $2.08, and natural gas cost half as much.
Maybe we should start a war with an oil producing nation, or something? >:(
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: jp233 on October 27, 2004, 05:13:13 AM
if racing means a lot to you, get yourself a really thrifty car (hybrid?), sell the house and move into somewhere more efficient (and/or way closer to work), and get back on the track.

gotta prioritize... only reason I dont own a boat or jetski is because of racing. and I live on the water with a 90 ft dock (sheesh)  :o
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Dawn on October 27, 2004, 06:10:42 AM
Oil prices are really not that high when you adjust it for inflation.  Here's some interesting information....

Link (http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2004/08/oil_inflation_a.html)

 ;)
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Jeff on October 27, 2004, 06:37:03 AM
There's no need to buy an overpriced hybrid when there are some extremely economical vehicles around.

In the 80's I was pimpin in a 2door 5 speed Honda Civic hatch back.  The thing got 45mpg no matter how hard I beat on it.  Of course, if it was piled with kids, only 2 were allowed to ride up real steep hills, but still...  The hybrids of today are a farce.

For the first time in my life, I factored gas prices into a shopping trip this last weekend.  My son needed a winter jacket. Normally we'd go to the outlet mall about 50 miles away.  Not this time.  I went to Kohls which is 2 miles from my house.  I spent $10 more on the coat, but considering 96 miles saved (my mpg averages 15 in the gas van) equated to roughly $15 saved, it worked out better.

I get pissed when I pump another $60 tank of gas or $75 tank of diesel, so I'm doing what I can to personally conserve.

Yes, I could get a smaller car, but right now it's not economically feasible since nobody on this Earth wants my van.

If the prices stay like this (which they will) or (gulp) increase (which they likely will), people will shift their thinking and start buying smaller homes closer to work.  Welcome back to the 50's folks...  

We'll be in that mode until oil consumption drops safely below supply, and then prices may drop a bit so people will again go nuts.  It's cyclical.
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: OmniGLH on October 27, 2004, 08:17:21 AM
QuoteThere's no need to buy an overpriced hybrid when there are some extremely economical vehicles around.

Couldn't have said it better myself. DanO and I talk about this all the time.  Why do we need some ridiculous, hybrid-electric computer-controlled $20,000 Civic that gets 40mpg, when Dan's old '84 CRX HF got 45-50mpg with 200k+ miles on it?
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: OmniGLH on October 27, 2004, 08:24:13 AM
QuoteFor the first time in my life, I factored gas prices into a shopping trip this last weekend.  My son needed a winter jacket. Normally we'd go to the outlet mall about 50 miles away.  Not this time.  I went to Kohls which is 2 miles from my house.  I spent $10 more on the coat, but considering 96 miles saved (my mpg averages 15 in the gas van) equated to roughly $15 saved, it worked out better.

I get pissed when I pump another $60 tank of gas or $75 tank of diesel, so I'm doing what I can to personally conserve.

Funny you say that - I've found myself doing that lately as well.  Even something as simple as going out to dinner.  I've never hesitated to travel for good food.  My friends and I usually have this bi-weekly ritual of heading downtown to get an authentic Maxwell Street polish sausage (#1 on my list of favorite foods.)  But now, at $2.46/gallon (as of yesterday), I think twice - it costs me $10 in fuel JUST to get down there.  All of a sudden, a $2.90 polish sausage and a coke doesn't sound so hot... for $12.90 I'll get a mini-pan pizza and a beer at Georgio's, right down the street from me - and save $1-2 in the process.
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: spyderchick on October 27, 2004, 08:46:42 AM
The reason you should consider a hybrid is as a big f*** you to the oil companies. That and to move toward separation from our dependancy on oil. Those resources will not last forever and to support companies that offer an alternative when it comes to purchasing a new vehicle is worth our consideration.

Granted Hybrid vehicles are not for everyone, but if you want a good commuter car thats light on fuel, cars the like Honda Insight rock, as they can realistically get up to 75MPG. Ford now has the Escape model SUV available as a hybrid, so this technology is here to stay. No, there's curreently no hybrid available to replace your Dually Deisel, but I'll bet dollars to donuts you could get a conversion kit that would allow you to use agro based deisel in place of the traditional kind.

*I'll get off my organic/free trade soapbox to go wash my cotton hippy clothes in the river with a rock.  ;)
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Dawn on October 27, 2004, 08:52:30 AM
Here's some helpful hints to save money (or at least, this is what the Buxton house does).

1. Don't eat out.  Think about it, if you go out to lunch at a fast food joint, for one person you're lucky if you can get out for under $3.00 for one person.   More in likely your paying $5.00 or more.  Now, go to the store, buy a loaf of bread ($1.10) pound of  butter ($2.69) and a stick of sausage ($5.99).  For $9.78 you can have sandwiches that will last you the entire week or more.  Plus bring your own soda (or milk), you will pay $.29 cents a can for soda at the store ($6.99 / 24) verses $.50 to $.65 from the vending machine.
 
2. Food is one of the largest bills that your family has.  Try and stay away from any pre-packaged pre-made entrees and try your hand at cooking yourself.  Also, scour the ads for your local grocery store and try and plan your meals around what's on sale.  (Do you really need that NY strip steak at $7.99 a pound?)

3. Reduce your speed when driving by 5 miles an hour (I am assuming that none of you do the speed limit).  You would be amazed at what a difference you could see in your gas mileage.  It may only be a mile or two, but if you travel 94.2 miles a day like I do, it will add up.

4. Do you really need that new car?  If you think about the money you spend for the loan payment and the full coverage on your car insurance, is it really worth it?  The money that you save buying used could be directed towards other things such as R A C I N G!!!!  8^)    Buying used however does have some risk, if you are not well versed in the auto mechanic arena, it would be helpful to bring a friend who is or take the car you are interested in to a reputable mechanic.  (FYI:  We have found the older GM 3.8V-6 motors to be really reliable, I'm sure there are others).

5. Keep up with the maintenance on your car: tire pressure, oil changes, spark plugs and wires, etc.  This we keep the mileage at it's peak and hopefully keep expensive repairs at bay.


There are many more, but here's just a few to get you started.
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Pierre - Team PMR on October 27, 2004, 08:57:05 AM
QuoteThe reason you should consider a hybrid is as a big f*** you to the oil companies.

if you want to do that - then consider E85 - thats 85% ethanol mixed with 15% gasoline.  Most newer cars can burn it & you will not see a difference in the performance (check your owners manual)...and it is available at some gas stations in the midwest.

Ehtanols is alcohol made from corn (or any starchy plant).  We can decrease our oil dependancy by using this and give the middle east a big F*** you!.  The best part is that the exhaust is only water and Co2.  Look into it.
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: boo181 on October 27, 2004, 09:33:08 AM
i agree on th e ethenol it's good all across the board, it reduces our need for oil, it's renewable, it's cleaner, buy increasing production it creates jobs and boosts our local economies, and you can run it in the vehicle that you already have. on to hybreds, as a long distance commuter car(i.e. driving 50mi. from the country to the city for work and back everyday) you won't see much, if any, differance between one and say a honda civic with a conventonal gas engine. but for driving from say southside chicago to the north side in rush hour traffic you would see a differance. this is because the electrical part of the hybred engine only works when the vehicle is sitting at an idle for x amount of time. so if you are on the highway/interstate the hole time with out having to sit in traffic you won't use the electrical portion of your hybred engine, only the conventional gas powerd motor. so in short, hybred good for some stupid for others, and ethenol good for all.
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: OmniGLH on October 27, 2004, 09:46:12 AM
QuoteHere's some helpful hints to save money (or at least, this is what the Buxton house does).

1. Don't eat out.  Think about it, if you go out to lunch at a fast food joint, for one person you're lucky if you can get out for under $3.00 for one person.   More in likely your paying $5.00 or more.  Now, go to the store, buy a loaf of bread ($1.10) pound of  butter ($2.69) and a stick of sausage ($5.99).  For $9.78 you can have sandwiches that will last you the entire week or more.  Plus bring your own soda (or milk), you will pay $.29 cents a can for soda at the store ($6.99 / 24) verses $.50 to $.65 from the vending machine.
 
2. Food is one of the largest bills that your family has.  Try and stay away from any pre-packaged pre-made entrees and try your hand at cooking yourself.  Also, scour the ads for your local grocery store and try and plan your meals around what's on sale.  (Do you really need that NY strip steak at $7.99 a pound?)

3. Reduce your speed when driving by 5 miles an hour (I am assuming that none of you do the speed limit).  You would be amazed at what a difference you could see in your gas mileage.  It may only be a mile or two, but if you travel 94.2 miles a day like I do, it will add up.

4. Do you really need that new car?  If you think about the money you spend for the loan payment and the full coverage on your car insurance, is it really worth it?  The money that you save buying used could be directed towards other things such as R A C I N G!!!!  8^)    Buying used however does have some risk, if you are not well versed in the auto mechanic arena, it would be helpful to bring a friend who is or take the car you are interested in to a reputable mechanic.  (FYI:  We have found the older GM 3.8V-6 motors to be really reliable, I'm sure there are others).

5. Keep up with the maintenance on your car: tire pressure, oil changes, spark plugs and wires, etc.  This we keep the mileage at it's peak and hopefully keep expensive repairs at bay.


There are many more, but here's just a few to get you started.


1&2)  Figuring that out.  A $3 frozen pizza is cheaper than $5 on a deli sandwich from the local butcher.  $2/day x 5 days/week x ~4 weeks/month = $40/month in savings right there.

3)  Already play the mileage game  :)  65mph seems to be optimum... so I hit the expressway, set the cruise, and let everybody blow around me.  I travel 85 miles a day... and it does add up - to just shy of $60 a week.  Then when you factor in $1.60/day in tolls (doubles to $3.20/day starting 1/1/05 thanks to our great IL governor) it REALLY adds up.

4)  A new car is my ONLY financial "problem".  After driving total beaters through HS and college, I've come to appreciate a new car with a warranty.  It may not be cheaper... but it's worth it for the peace of mind.

One thing is for certain:  each day that I pass that fuel pump and see a higher price listed, next year's racing season gets shorter and shorter.
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Jeff on October 27, 2004, 10:29:59 AM
the F-U to the oil companies comes at a cost of the auto companies saying F-U to the consumers in inflated prices...

Actually I take that back.  It's not the auto makers, it's the dealers who no longer HAVE to haggle for a sale.

Agreed, tons of things can be done to save costs, & agreed that food is probably the biggest.  

Home heating/energy is another.  I live in a +3000 sq-ft house, and last year, my largest heat & electrical bill (combined) was under $400 for the month.  

If you're not in the house, don't heat it.  If you're sleeping, let the temp dip to 60, just pack on another quilt & have some flannel sheets.  A digital set-back thermostat with a good programming can save a TON of money...
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: r6_philly on October 27, 2004, 11:45:46 AM
I use space heaters to heat my home and office. I don't need to heat up the space that I don't occupy, and eletricity is so much cheaper than using gas heat around here. a small energy efficient space heater (ceramic, or oil radiator) set on low can heat me up personally... I don't need my back room to be heated if I am not going to be in there but twice a week. I leave my thermo at 5o so the pipes won't freeze... saves about $100 a month combined. and I am warmer!!!
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: jp233 on October 27, 2004, 12:00:22 PM
I live off 44 cent pot pies, 60 cent cheap frozen pizzas, the cheapest cola I can find, ramen noodles, and the fish/crabs I can catch from my dock. (course boo hoo the crabs are gone now :( )

i only eat out when i really have to, or dont have the time to get something at home

my housemate and I commute to work, splitting the driving although its less than 10 miles to work

does anybody want to buy a 1985 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham limo? hell I've gotten 18+ mpg out of her on a full tank, with 8 people in it, A/c and CD player crankin!!!  ;D ;D :o 8)
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on October 27, 2004, 12:27:51 PM
Chris, ya should try paying the equivelent to $4.50USD/gal like I did back in Australia in 88 and 89. My Falcon XF was no gas miser even with a V6. ;D
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Baltobuell on October 27, 2004, 07:20:21 PM
 Saving money is great but also think of making money. JP, rent a couple of slips out along that pier. I don't know exactly where your at, but intown is $100 a month for a 20'er.
 Cris, I feel your pain. I went to corporate for a rate increase to raise driver pay and I thought the guy was going to choke to death. After the warped explanation of why they can't, I wish he had. There may be a strike looming and that's never good for anybody.
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: K3 Chris Onwiler on October 28, 2004, 03:32:47 AM
Can't sell the big house & move closer to the job.  Closer to the job means moving closer to the city, which means that half the house would cost triple the money.  No savings there!  Plus, the wife works 5 minutes from the house we have now.
Smaller house?  The wife wanted this house.  She grew up in a ranch on a slab.  If I tell her we're moving out of her dream house, I'll be the only one actually leaving.
My car is new.  It cost 14.5K, and gets 30 mpg.  I got tired of having shytebox cars that broke down halfway between home and work, thus costing me a day's pay and $200 every time.
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Super Dave on October 28, 2004, 05:08:15 AM
Blame, blame, blame...

Why are the costs going up?

China.

First, when I was getting out of high school and into college and into racing, the big talk was that we, the United States, was going to loose the manufacturing jobs and we were going to become a "service industry".  

That's for the bashing going on about all these jobs leaving the US.  Tell me how many people here want to sit in a factory stamping out some kind of product.  Tell me how many of your kids would like to do that.  Tell me how many parents want their kids to grow up to have jobs like that.

Those jobs went to China.  And those jobs need materials to make it work.  Steel, aluminum, and oil.  The Chinese economy is hungry.  It needs materials.  So, now when we, the rest of the world other than China, needs some gasoline, we have to pay more for it...because the Chinese NEED it to keep making stuff for the rest of the world.

Cars expensive?  Increase in steel prices, liability, safety changes, etc...

What do you think you should pay for a new car?  How much is new technology and air bags worth to you?  How about the ability to purchase replacement parts.  There were people that bought Yugo's years ago...try to get parts for those today.  I think phone service is too expensive.  We can haggle about anything.  

E85.  The ethanol might clean out your engine quick and cause problems.  I'm from Nebraska.  I grew up with Ethanol.  The ethanol can soak up some water out of the atmosphere.  Got to be careful.  

I think that MTBE has been eliminated from most gasolines as an oxygenate, other than maybe racing fuels.  And gasoline you buy is generally oxygenated if not more oxygenated and of the reformulated type.  Hence, it probably has about 10% ethanol in it.

A proper soy diesel system would probably help the country.  The soy that is grown by farmers is not really the proper soy to be converted into soy diesel and then biodiesel.  Everything gets around by truck or train...so, the diesel would help.  But currently, biodiesel is still a bit more expensive than regular diesel...wait until road taxes are put on it.

As for the fifties and people living somewhere....

Huh?

That was a real economic boom.  Post WWII, the eonconomy grew pretty well.  That's when the suburbs came into existance.  People moving out of the city.  But work has followed to the outskirts.  Even manufacturing.  

Taxes...too many interests for maintaining certain things and certain people.  Don't get me started.
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: GSXR RACER MIKE on October 28, 2004, 07:37:10 PM
     There was an article in the local newspaper, the last time fuel prices got high, about the breakdown of the price we all pay per gallon for fuel here in Illinois. If I remember correctly the majority of the price we pay for fuel goes to an array of various taxes (local, state and federal).

     The tolls being increased here in Illinois is just another part of the ongoing lies and deception the governor has been feeding us since capturing his position in Illinois Government. North Central/Eastern Illinois is the only area of the whole state that has toll roads (to the best of my knowledge). The Governor, whom I will just refer to as 'LIAR', promised the Rockford area that he would remove the extremely dangerous, and massively traffic disrupting, unattended toll at I-90 & Bypass 20 by January of '04. In exchange he would raise the toll at the Illinois/Wisconsin border by 10 cents to compensate for the loss of the lesser used Rockford toll booth, which was met with universal acceptance by locals. This move would have helped to stop the up to 5 mile long traffic jams that occur at the Rockford toll almost every weekend (it's only slightly less during the week during 'rush hour').

     So last winter the Southbound toll was removed at Rockford because it was the 1 that caused the most accidents/fatalities (but was done after raising the Wis./Ill. toll months earlier, so there was huge amounts of extra money collected during the 'double dipping' time before the removal). Since then the North bound toll has not been removed as promised and they continue to collect revenue from the existing toll plus the extra increased toll at the border! 'LIAR' is now saying that he is going to double the entire toll system fees and start nailing the trucks and trailers that use the toll roads during the day with increased fees over those charged late at night. The toll roads in this corner of the state are the major ways around the bottom of Lake Michigan without going out of the way by alot, so the majority of travelers get stuck paying them. 'Liar' claims that he can't remove the Northbound toll at Rockford because it generates something like $12 million a year, even though he increased the toll at the border for both directions, that toll sees far more traffic than the 1 at Rockford!

     My respect for politicians in general has diminished progressively over the years with actions such as this! >:(    
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Protein Filled on October 28, 2004, 09:59:56 PM
Quote    There was an article in the local newspaper, the last time fuel prices got high, about the breakdown of the price we all pay per gallon for fuel here in Illinois. If I remember correctly the majority of the price we pay for fuel goes to an array of various taxes (local, state and federal).

     The tolls being increased here in Illinois is just another part of the ongoing lies and deception the governor has been feeding us since capturing his position in Illinois Government. North Central/Eastern Illinois is the only area of the whole state that has toll roads (to the best of my knowledge). The Governor, whom I will just refer to as 'LIAR', promised the Rockford area that he would remove the extremely dangerous, and massively traffic disrupting, unattended toll at I-90 & Bypass 20 by January of '04. In exchange he would raise the toll at the Illinois/Wisconsin border by 10 cents to compensate for the loss of the lesser used Rockford toll booth, which was met with universal acceptance by locals. This move would have helped to stop the up to 5 mile long traffic jams that occur at the Rockford toll almost every weekend (it's only slightly less during the week during 'rush hour').

     So last winter the Southbound toll was removed at Rockford because it was the 1 that caused the most accidents/fatalities (but was done after raising the Wis./Ill. toll months earlier, so there was huge amounts of extra money collected during the 'double dipping' time before the removal). Since then the North bound toll has not been removed as promised and they continue to collect revenue from the existing toll plus the extra increased toll at the border! 'LIAR' is now saying that he is going to double the entire toll system fees and start nailing the trucks and trailers that use the toll roads during the day with increased fees over those charged late at night. The toll roads in this corner of the state are the major ways around the bottom of Lake Michigan without going out of the way by alot, so the majority of travelers get stuck paying them. 'Liar' claims that he can't remove the Northbound toll at Rockford because it generates something like $12 million a year, even though he increased the toll at the border for both directions, that toll sees far more traffic than the 1 at Rockford!

     My respect for politicians in general has diminished progressively over the years with actions such as this! >:(    

BTW, You respected politicians before you wrote this?

Ha, ha, ha!!!!! LMAO, ROTF!!!! I dont mean to be mean, but a grain of salt is too much attention for some of them!!!

Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Super Dave on October 29, 2004, 04:12:56 AM
Ah, should we start on polititians?

Certainly, there are some in office that you can classify as scholars and patriots.  Those are the ones that I value.

Businessmen too.  Certainly, a businessman knows how jobs are actually created.

But many in the upper fields of office are lawyers.  Certainly, I have respect for their work to educate themselves and their prowes of tongue...but I believe the sense of "entitlement and awards" that the legal system sets up and gives out...it's a mess, and if something is related to the downfall of the greatest experiment on earth...that's the start.

How do you know anything about job creation when you are the agent that gets money from companies for product problems, etc.  Product liability is fine, but some of the "awards", as they are called, are just outrageous.  And you and I just pay for them anyway.
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Baltobuell on October 29, 2004, 04:50:45 PM
 Thank You Dave! I thought I was the only one that felt like that. All hail King Dave!
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Super Dave on October 30, 2004, 04:26:08 AM
Thanks.

I'm not a member of either of the two "major" parties.

But...

One of Bush's things that he wanted to do when elected originally was to reduce some of the extraordinary "awards" that get handed out.  

Seems like the members of the legislative branch (lawyers?) didn't pass it.  Now it's apparently the "adminstration's" fault that health care is going up.

Is this news?  Been going up for years and years and years.

What I do know....

When I started riding motorcycles in 1986, full coverage for my GSXR750 was $280 a year (I was eighteen and living at home), and I know that it's up two to ten times that amount.

I know that a regular wage isn't up that much from that time.  

And now a lawyer can buy the Milwaukee Brewers for $255 million...

We've got a guy that was an Airborne Ranger running for Senate here in SE Wiscoinin.  And he's part of a really booming family business.  

Basically, what I call a scholar and patriot.  Getting my vote.

On the flip side, there's all these people that haven't completed high school, never went to college, or were so self centered that they complete any of those tasks...they're using their star power and singin' for some canidates...

Yeah, they really know what it's like to be a person with a mortgage that actually knows what the cost of milk and gasoline is per gallon.

Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: Mark Bernard on October 30, 2004, 06:28:59 AM
Politics...
Poly = many
Tics = blood sucking parasites
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: spyderchick on October 30, 2004, 10:35:12 AM
QuotePolitics...
Poly = many
Tics = blood sucking parasites

LOL ;D
Title: Re: %@#$%$# Gas Prices!
Post by: GSXR RACER MIKE on October 30, 2004, 02:09:31 PM
QuoteBTW, You respected politicians before you wrote this?

Ha, ha, ha!!!!! LMAO, ROTF!!!! I dont mean to be mean, but a grain of salt is too much attention for some of them!!!

     I actually use to have alot of respect for those in positions of power/leadership, whether it was someone in government or the leader of a successful company. Over the years much of that respect has sadly been lost with the corruption that seems to have become the expected norm nowdays. :-/