http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=10876
Quotethe forks were confiscated by Suzuki officials, dis-assembled under their supervision by former Traxxion Dynamics employee Mike Fitzgerald (who now has his own competing suspension business, Thermosman Suspension) and found to contain non-stock parts.
LOL. Mike has *never* struck me as a vengeful person... but I wonder if he secretly enjoyed this... ;)
.... the "no longer working with WERA" didn't come as a surprise either.
;)
I think we should leave that story alone instead of creating an opportunity for the anti-Max haters to pile on.................... ;)
What happened is amongst Max, AMA, Suzuki, WERA,............ and should be dealt by them only. Besides, the story published still has a chance to be modifed farther as more facts becomes available.
Actually Kent at GMD did it in the post i read
its one of the longer threads in recent memory on the WERA board... quite entertaining to see it all unfold way before it was publicly known
Sunny,
I think it's relavent to discuss because as racers we are all potential TD customers. Would you like to know to what extent your tuner will go to?
True, but we only know what "reportedly" happened (reportedly cheating; accused of giving a racer an edge over other in handling performance in this case), but not why Max did what he does even if "cheating" was proved (was there any details of what exactly was done and what the definition of cheating would be?), so it's easy for anti-Max haters to just pile on and bash him as a person, owner, business man, etc......... In my view, what Max does is no business of ours unless it affect us directly (such as purposely F'ed up our suspension to try to get us hurted which I don't see it ever from happening except the very opposite). Whether good or bad, he's the one who had to live with his decision/action.
I am already a TD customer.
In my personal experience, Max had done things above and beyond to help me out as my RVF forks is probably the first and one of the very few he/his employee had and will ever work on. I can tell you that for the same money everyone spent with Max, he went through several rebuilds (at no extra charge) to get my forks toward perfection (just relying on my feedback as we are too far apart, so he doesn't get to work on my bike physically to see it for himself although we finally hooked up at VIR during Cycle Jam weekend this year). He does the same for the shock as the widely recommended shock spring and damping curve for my bike were way off what they should be as not many tuners had actual experience with the bike (like how most if not all do it wrong with the Honda Hawk 650GT early on). Can anyone see Max helping me (basically an one off bike) just because it helps him some other ways (in a business sense) as many mentioned? I sure can't see it as he had to went through the same trial and error (developement) to get things right for me (an one-off) as compared to the masssive GSX600/R6/whatever out there. Anyway, I am going to only treat Max as the Max I knew (and he had treated me great while the entire WERA mass hated me) instead of listening some anti-Max haters bashing him to no end and let their judgements of Max affect mine.
I suggest all potential TD customers to only care about what Max can do for you, and not how others see/feel about him (what he does is no business of ours unless it's about our suspension). Whether Max's work is good, I believe enough had been said by all current TD customers. I only wish he's local, so I can have problems fixed faster as it too hard to do it long distance without him being about to feel the bike and just based on my feedback (distance isn't a problem if you own a commonly available bike such as GSR600/R6/etc.........).
Ok, I'm not the bashing type, but what you just said is not necessarily correct. What if you're one of the guys on the other bikes and your competition is getting an unfair advantage because he's working on their bike in an illegal manner? It does make a difference or there wouldn't be a rule against it. I don't know the guy and I've talked to a few people that like him both personally and professionally, just putting out the other view. Also, I haven't seen the bashing on this site the way the WERA boards get so I don't think it's gonna be a problem.
Sunny,
First, count to 10 before you continue reading this note.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
:)
Breathe
:o
Breathe
;D
It seems like you are saying that we shouldn't share information about issues like this. This message doesn't bash the quality of his work, but more of his integrity. I think your note refers to quality and the article refers to integrity. Many racers would like their service providers to have both.
I also don't think you read the article with an open mind. You figured you were a TD customer and no one was going to sway that opinion. In the article, Max included an apology for his actions. If that's not an admission of fact or the possibility that he subverted the rules, I don't know what else you are looking for him to say.
I guess the lesson here is that if you choose to work with TD, which I don't think is a poor decision by any means, just make sure you understand the work he plans on performing to your suspension so you know what you got, not what you thought you got. Actually, that applies to all purchase decisions.
I think the story says just as much about quality as it does integrity...
Suzuki officials later said that McAllister had attempted to modify the bike's stock shock, but had damaged it while trying to take it apart, and replaced it with a stock shock he borrowed off a Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School instructor's bike after telling school officials he needed it to replace a damaged customer's shock, without revealing that it was for a Suzuki World Cup rider.
:-* :-* :-* :-*
Sunny, you can't control what people think, nor can you control what is said in an open forum. With that said if you don't like what is being discussed, let me make a suggestion.
DON't FU%^'en READ IT!! Be your own censor.
BTW I have been and most likely will still be a TD customer, but I want to hear others opinions on the subject.
No doubt, I agree. Sharing information is a great thing. Just didn't want to see the thread turn from "discussing"/"sharing" facts to a simply bashing to no end thread like that of WERA. Feel free to discuss and share! Kudos to everyone on this CCS forum for only "discussing" and "sharing facts so far!
You are right that this thread hasn't turn to anything like that of WERA, but I was simply trying to say that we could prevent this one from developing to that.
Just like to add, no one is perfect. That goes for everyone including ourselves. Cheating is part of the game in whatever you do (life in general). You may never cross the line, but many do to get an edge over others no matter you like to admit or not. I am not saying this is a right thing to do, but it's a reality that the world is not perfect and not everyone plays fair. I knew what Max did was wrong, but I wonder whether it was his own decision only to go forth or there are things we don't know about nor will ever know about. I read his statement, but I too know that he may be trying to protect others as well by claiming all the resposibilities.
CORRECTIONS
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=10876
Although I know nothing of this situation, other than what I have read at the RRW and WERA sites, this is starting to look really ugly. Looks like some statements were issued before all the facts were gathered. Also looks like Max may be on the way toward earning a big time (Lawsuit?) apology. Nothing like taking a bad situation and making it 10x worse!
Rick
QuoteI think we should leave that story alone instead of creating an opportunity for the anti-Max haters to pile on.................... ;)
What happened is amongst Max, AMA, Suzuki, WERA,............ and should be dealt by them only. Besides, the story published still has a chance to be modifed farther as more facts becomes available.
Sunny, your statements are ridiculous. This is a public forum and if we want to bash and or praise TD and Max then we can and will do so. As it's been said if you don't want to hear anything that offends you , don't read the thread.
Nut
BTW..My experiences with max and his business have been poor and his mouth has lost my and plenty of other's business. I would not miss him in the least.
QuoteAs it's been said if you don't want to hear anything that offends you , don't read the thread.
The same goes for you and everyone else. Don't read nor reply to my post/s if you don't like to hear what I have to say/suggest. ;)
More facts are becoming available, and the "reported" story is now far from what was first reported/speculated..............
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=10897
QuoteMore facts are becoming available, and the "reported" story is now far from what was first reported/speculated..............
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=10897
Funny how that works, huh!! :o
FWIW, I've found that about 90% of the "trash" posts that develop on the "other" BBS come from folks who are barely involved with ANY racing organization. These hints /clues come up often when they spout their wealth of knowledge, then mention they just completed their first track day, race, school, etc. Don't hold an entire club responsible for a few twits that don't even "belong" there!
Anywho, I'm hoping more info comes out that slaps the hearsay right in the mouth!! ;D
QuoteThe same goes for you and everyone else. Don't read nor reply to my post/s if you don't like to hear what I have to say/suggest. ;)
Fair enough.
Let's end the discussion with a thought:
I think the moral of the story is make sure you know what you are getting upfront, don't just be a rider and let people work on your bike without your knowledge.
QuoteI think we should leave that story alone instead of creating an opportunity for the anti-Max haters to pile on.................... ;)
What happened is amongst Max, AMA, Suzuki, WERA,............ and should be dealt by them only. Besides, the story published still has a chance to be modifed farther as more facts becomes available.
"Anti-Max hater" a person who hates anyone who is against Max, wouldn't that be the Sunny?
BTW: Integrety means everything
Quote"Anti-Max hater" a person who hates anyone who is against Max, wouldn't that be the Sunny?
BTW: Integrety means everything
I meant "Anti-Max/Max haters". I am pretty sure you know very well about what I am trying to say, but if you just want to cherry pick and have something to argue about, flame on, I am not going to join you.
Yes, integrity means a lot, but you are judging from some "speculations" and "facts" that you heard indirectly. Everything is "who said what" now, and the published story is changing everyday. So maybe we should all be against/bashing you as well because someone says something bad about you too (even from a person who doesn't know you personally)? Yes, I know this can happen because it happened to me, but would you say this is a fair way to judge a person? Anyway, do what you want, but don't direct your anger/whatever my way (i.e., cherry pick my English).
It's true I was just stirring the pot.
seriously though it would be a real shame if nothing was done wrong, this has all surely caused irreparable damage to the business and reputation of traxxion dynamics. I think that the most damning aspect of this fiasco was WERA stating that they would not do business with them, that surely implies that the rest of us should not either, even though they made a statement trying to cover themselves on that one. I forsee a lawsuit and I wouldn't balme them one bit if nothing else is found to back their claims. Integrety does mean everything and if they were wrong in questioning his, there is no way to fix the damage.
Cheating goes on in racing.
I think we can actually say that it does.
However...
What happens after that...
I have seen those that have cheated (rider) get a pretty darn easy slap on the wrist.
Never have I seen the retaliation against the one doing the work of cheating.
So...
I am very interested in all this.
We'll never hear the full story, but the fact that the retaliation has gone this way is very interesting.
Tripp Nobles is a just plain good guy.
Read it all.
He actually saw the forks come under the tent.
I'm not Tripp's friend or anything, but I've raced for a while. So, I have feelings about Tripp: he's an honest guy.
He saw something happen. Wasn't right. The person who did that was way in the wrong....
And the rest happens as a result.
Quote.... the "no longer working with WERA" didn't come as a surprise either.
;)
Not sure where you think you get your information from Dawn but you really don't have a clue about WERA, me, or anything we do. You've shown that repeatedly and I for one would appreciate you being quiet when you don't know what you're talking about. You obviously don't know a thing about our relationship with Max as the above comment proves.
SuperDave - it was Cliff, not Tripp that saw Max and all of the facts are as I posted them on our site. No more no less.
Sorry Sean....
I havn't been on the WERA board for a while now but there have been a few threads where you two were butting heads pretty good. Why go through that stress.....
My opinion
;)
If you read those threads you'll notice the only problem I ever had with Max was watching him hurt himself and his business. I finally put a stop to him doing so on our BBS, wish it had carried over. Other than sadness I have no personal ill feelings towards Max and never will.
Fair enough....
Thanks for clearing the air.
:)
lol
nevermind ::)
;D
QuoteI think we should leave that story alone instead of creating an opportunity for the anti-Max haters to pile on.................... ;)
What happened is amongst Max, AMA, Suzuki, WERA,............ and should be dealt by them only. Besides, the story published still has a chance to be modifed farther as more facts becomes available.
Holy Crap
Sunny ..........you are making sense...WOW... :o
Quote\
SuperDave - it was Cliff, not Tripp that saw Max and all of the facts are as I posted them on our site. No more no less.
Whoops!
My mistake...
Can't confuse the "bigger" brother with the other...
:o
Regardless, Cliff's worked in the racing side for a while. If he saw it...Still goes to say...
QuoteCheating goes on in racing.
I think we can actually say that it does.
Is there something you'd like to tell us, Dave?
;) ;D
Well, cheating would call for money...something I've never had.
I do know that pretty much anyone that was racing a CBR600F2 in the early '90's in the AMA had an HRC black box.
Was worth some power, so I was told. At one race the AMA finally took the boxes of some of the top guys and replaced them with known OEM units. Their lap times were a little closer to my time than what they usually were.
Continued work like that never happened...Hey, the factories claim each other's suspension components...that fair?
I was involved in a tussel a few years ago a Blackhawk. Someone had an illegal motor. He got called on it in a protest. He didn't want to tear it down. Had the ability, financially, to get major work done and outspend a lot of others.
He admitted he was illegal and he didn't have to tear it down.
Moments later, a protest was filed by his friend against the person that originally filed the protest.
That person had taken his mortgage money to file the protest, he was so sure of the offense.
He was completely distraught at the thought of being protested. He said he couldn't afford the tear down, putting it together, etc. He was supposed to race at Gateway the next weekend.
A friend and I volunteered to do the tear down, for the officials....the Race Referrer refused the protest, in his right, as he said that the tear down was being done in retaliation, but the current race director over ruled him...His motor was found to be legal and in great need of a valve job.
I let him use my bike at the next event.
It happens. Seems to be done by those that have the financial means to do it, not by those that don't have the means.
Regardless, it's wrong.
Really, I don't claim to understand why, in this case, the recipients weren't booted.
Mogno?
I didn't read the other information on your BBS. If you elect for the work, isn't it your fault for it? Still, if the supplier of the work goes to extreme measures to go beyond what is reasonable to "skirt" the rules...I think that might be the justification here.
Riders shouldn't be morons. "I didn't know that we couldn't do that..." Blow me...that's BS. Open the book.
Hey Dave you forgot to add that the offender was asked/told/warned multiple times that if he chose to run in a certain race that he would be protested. The said offender entered and ran the race anyway. I say koodos for "you know who" for stepping up and addressing the issue with a protest. In contrast I lost what respect I had for the offending person and the manner in which he or his friends responded by throwing a protest back. But in the end it was poetic justice being able to use awarded protest money for a much needed head/valve repair.
I have heard that some other organizations have a few racers who pool their money together and basically protest someone at random at each event in order to discourage cheating. In the end I think we would all be surprised, or maybe not, at what is out there.
Pooling money together for a protest..... Interesting, but what do you then protest?
I wish cheating weren't going on, but it is. But, I love to see people like Ed Key use the rules to their advantage and build SS legal bikes that are featherlight, and use the SB rules as much as they feasibly can. It keeps the technical side interesting.
Protest what you think is illegal. You need to be specific.
If Ed didn't do all the stuff he did...
He'd still probably win.
It's just by how much cushion.
QuoteIf Ed didn't do all the stuff he did...
He'd still probably win.
It's just by how much cushion.
Amen... a 120hp 600 might get me around one guy at the checkered, but it's not going to make that much of a difference. Talent is where it's at...
Sure, I agree Ed would still win. But, he has fun with the building and constant mods.
I understand that you protest what you think is illegal, usually, but in the case G97 presented, if you protest someone kindof at random, what do you protest?
Nate
I will protest you casue you are slow :P and I still need you dam address to send you back your book.
Oh, yeah!
Nate Reik
4385 S Griffin Ave
Milwaukee, WI 53207
QuoteNate
I will protest you casue you are slow :P and I still need you dam address to send you back your book.
LOL!
ADDRESS!
Protest what you think it is. It's a toss up.
Porting is easy to see. So, that doesn't require any real work or cost.
But if you want to see the bore, the head has to come off.
Crank? Well, you can see it from the bottom if it has major work done to it. All depends.