Edwards to join Rossi for next 2 seasons :o Thought maybe Nicky would join Rossi, but oh well. Think it had to do anything with the "humping" that occurred when Colin got his first podium ??? Rossi is still god ;D
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2004/Oct/041016a.htm
Interesting.
Colin has done a lot with Yamaha...
Before road racing, with Yamaha here, he was, like, a mini-moto-cross word champion.
That was how he knew Tom Halverson who was kind of the go to guy for the US Yamaha program, as I understood it at the time.
Good for Colin. Someone sees his value.
Yeah, Colin is a hell of a rider. He just needs the right support behind him and he could be a MotoGP champ sooner or later when Rossi goes to F1 racing ;D
Bayliss going to WSBK? Checa checking out? OOOoooohhhh the drama :D
I'm curious about what DiSalvo will be doing...
How Jensen does at the Suzuki World Final at Atlanta...and if that leads to something...
Other questions too, but those I can't state.
Still looking for financing on my end.
And a job.
That hurts.
QuoteI'm curious about what DiSalvo will be doing...
How Jensen does at the Suzuki World Final at Atlanta...and if that leads to something...
Other questions too, but those I can't state.
Still looking for financing on my end.
You think Suzuki is gonna mess with the current team? Maybe ditch Yates? Hmmm..... i dunno. Yates has tons of talent, but has to learn to differentiate AMA racing from WWF. Too bad Mladin doesn't have the nuts to go to MotoGP. He even admits he'll get his ass handed to him. So, I guess he cherry picks until he retires in the AMA ::) There should be a rule against cherrypicking in the AMA. The way it should go for champs IMHO is:
Club Racing to AMA to WSBK to MotoGP 125 to MotoGP 250 to MotoGP
Instead you got "5 time champ" sitting in AMA afraid to go anywhere else cause he doesn't want to be a back marker. What's the point? Not saying Mladin doesn't have talent, but doesn't it get old sitting on the podium race after race, after race with no additional challenge. He might even have a hard time qualifing in MotoGP....
QuoteAnd a job.
That hurts.
What exactly do you do?
QuoteYou think Suzuki is gonna mess with the current team? Maybe ditch Yates? Hmmm..... i dunno. Yates has tons of talent, but has to learn to differentiate AMA racing from WWF. Too bad Mladin doesn't have the nuts to go to MotoGP. He even admits he'll get his ass handed to him. So, I guess he cherry picks until he retires in the AMA ::) There should be a rule against cherrypicking in the AMA. The way it should go for champs IMHO is:
Club Racing to AMA to WSBK to MotoGP 125 to MotoGP 250 to MotoGP
Instead you got "5 time champ" sitting in AMA afraid to go anywhere else cause he doesn't want to be a back marker. What's the point? Not saying Mladin doesn't have talent, but doesn't it get old sitting on the podium race after race, after race with no additional challenge. He might even have a hard time qualifing in MotoGP....
Are you aware of a competitive offer to race MotoGP that was turned down by Mladin? Or do you think he can just build his own RCV211 in his garage and go racing?
And are you really saying that 125 and 250 GP are step-ups from world superbike? If so, whoever taught you about motorcycles should be jailed. I mean, I understand you don't know anything about racing, but can your head try to process what the transition from world superbike to 125 GP would be like?
QuoteAre you aware of a competitive offer to race MotoGP that was turned down by Mladin? Or do you think he can just build his own RCV211 in his garage and go racing?
Matt Mladin said in an interview that even if he would be offered a ride in MotoGP he wouldn't take it...
This is where I believe Dan was coming from.
Dawn ;)
QuoteMatt Mladin said in an interview that even if he would be offered a ride in MotoGP he wouldn't take it...
This is where I believe Dan was coming from.
Dawn ;)
Sorry, but Dan is implying that Mladin should have left the AMA after one or two championships. So again, my question is: does anyone know of any competitive offers he turned down in 1999-2000?
That interview you are talking about is a recent one. And he's right: at this point, it is probably too late in his career to go take a chance on MotoGP.
Dawn was right on the money. I think that Mladin should be forced to bump up where he has more competition. Is it fair to privateers and such being "stuck" because all the factory rides are taken by the same guys like Mladin and Duhamel for the last how many years ??? I can think of 3 or 4 privateers that deserve a factory ride after the awesome show they've put on.
Geoff May
Eric Wood
What about those guys? Look at their awesome results considering the equipment they are using compared to the factory teams.. Yet, as long as guys like Mladin and Duhamel are cherrypicking in AMA instead of moving up the chain, those guys are stuck where they are. No new superstars are born until one retires.
As far as my comment of MotoGP 125 and 250, I was referring to a "world level." Is it any more competitive? Don't know. I would be willing to bet that Danny Pedrosa would spank both Mladin and Duhamel like they were in 4th grade though.
As far as Mladin goes, it's funny that even with the factory ride being offered he shot it down. He admited himself that he would get his ass handed to him. I guess he's simply stating that he's not good enough to go to a world level compeition with the best of the best. That's too bad. You never know. Do you think that if Nicky came back and raced superbike he'd spank them all? Dunno ???
I can tell you this much, both Mladin and Duhamel are on my *crap* list. I wish I could get 1% of the talent either of those guys have, but still. But since they can't or don't want to move up, they are worthless in my opinion. More or less, it's like a 20 year old 8th grader picking on everyone in Jr. Highschool. Is he cool because he's 20 years old picking on 15 year olds?
QuoteÊAnd he's right: at this point, it is probably too late in his career to go take a chance on MotoGP.
Yeah, but he'll be the next Duhamel sitting in AMA until he can't walk any more. Too old my butt. ::) You think Rossi is going to race MotoGp for more than a couple more years? I think the first F1 team that is competitive and makes him and offer, and Rossi will be in F1. Too old. Is Duhamel too old? He could've quit a long time ago. Instead, he likes to snipe Zemke every race weekend out of 1st or 2nd.
QuoteDawn was right on the money. I think that Mladin should be forced to bump up where he has more competition. Is it fair to privateers and such being "stuck" because all the factory rides are taken by the same guys like Mladin and Duhamel for the last how many years ??? I can think of 3 or 4 privateers that deserve a factory ride after the awesome show they've put on.
...
As far as Mladin goes, it's funny that even with the factory ride being offered he shot it down. He admited himself that he would get his ass handed to him. I guess he's simply stating that he's not good enough to go to a world level compeition with the best of the best.
1) What do you mean "privateers that deserve a factory ride?" There is no God-given right to a factory ride. They may be fast enough to do well on a factory bike, but it doesn't mean they "deserve" anything or that somebody is taking a ride from them. With what DuHamel has done for American Honda in the last decade, why would anyone "deserve" his motorcycle more than he does?
2) Who offered Mladin a top MotoGP ride that he turned down? Did we read the same interview?
By the way, I know from the man himself he never got a good second chance at GPs. I'm not just repeating something I read on a web site.
QuoteYeah, but he'll be the next Duhamel sitting in AMA until he can't walk any more. Too old my butt. ::) You think Rossi is going to race MotoGp for more than a couple more years? I think the first F1 team that is competitive and makes him and offer, and Rossi will be in F1. Too old. Is Duhamel too old? He could've quit a long time ago. Instead, he likes to snipe Zemke every race weekend out of 1st or 2nd.
What the hell did you just attempt to say? It makes absolutely no sense, from the first word to the last. Gather your thoughts and try again.
Meanwhile, if you did not understand what I said (and obviously, you didn't), Mladin feels it is too late to start a GP career now. Most riders his age are not too far from retiring. If he went to GP, it would take in a year to learn the racetracks. A year spent learning is no big deal at age 25. At his age, it becomes a luxury a top racer can hardly afford. And in case you haven't noticed, Miguel is an exception, not the norm. Most people his age are not winning superbike races.
Quote1) What do you mean "privateers that deserve a factory ride?" ÊThere is no God-given right to a factory ride. ÊThey may be fast enough to do well on a factory bike, but it doesn't mean they "deserve" anything or that somebody is taking a ride from them. ÊWith what DuHamel has done for American Honda in the last decade, why would anyone "deserve" his motorcycle more than he does?
2) Who offered Mladin a top MotoGP ride that he turned down? ÊDid we read the same interview?
By the way, I know from the man himself he never got a good second chance at GPs. ÊI'm not just repeating something I read on a web site.
1. What I mean by privateers that "deserve a factory ride" is the guys that show up with equipment that can't touch the factory equipment. Look at Geof May. Look at his point standings. I strongly believe that if he would've had a better bike and more support than his girlfriend, he could've place even better than the 5th place he took on a pretty much stock bike. The guy was a "club racer" showing up at AMA events and placing top 10. If he can place top 5 with a non-factory supported ride, what do you think he'd do if he had full factory support? This guy shows up to the track with nothing but the basics, and still hung on to the top 5 finish. You don't find that amazing? You don't think he could be top 3 on a factory ride? Regardless, until some of the factory veterans move or retire, guys like Geof May will still be privateers. What does Mladin have to offer anymore? Another Suzuki commericial saying that he's now 5 time champ? So what. Nobody doubts his skills, and he's a hell of a rider, but he needs to move on. Ask yourself this, could Mladin EVER compare to Rossi? In my opinion, he could give it a shot, but yet he won't. Why? Money? How much money can you have until your just sick of showing up for work? What about the challenge? I'd respect him alot more if he even showed up to race a GP round. Even the backmarkers in MotoGP have talent. The last guy to finish in a MotoGP race will gain more respect from me than the "5 time AMA superbike champion."
I wish Nicky would come back to AMA and spank all their ass' in superbike just to prove a point. That would be entertaining.
As far as Duhamel is concerned, he did awesome for Honda in AMA. He could've done the same everywhere else. But.. another one that hasn't moved up.
Just like the do in club racing. 1st place champion novice, bumps to expert following season. Pro level racing should be no different until you hit the top.
Allolwing guys like Mladin in the AMA as long as they like is kinda like having guys like Tray Batey and Mark Jung running in the Novice class.
Just my point of view. Not sure which interview you read. I read several. I'll see if I can find the links.
QuoteWhat the hell did you just attempt to say? ÊIt makes absolutely no sense, from the first word to the last. ÊGather your thoughts and try again.
Meanwhile, if you did not understand what I said (and obviously, you didn't), Mladin feels it is too late to start a GP career now. ÊMost riders his age are not too far from retiring. ÊIf he went to GP, it would take in a year to learn the racetracks. ÊA year spent learning is no big deal at age 25. ÊAt his age, it becomes a luxury a top racer can hardly afford. ÊAnd in case you haven't noticed, Miguel is an exception, not the norm. ÊMost people his age are not winning superbike races.
Your right, and wrong. Both Mladin and Duhamel are knocking on retirements door. Wouldn't it be justifibile to you to just try and win one race atleast in MotoGP. That for me would be a better accomplishment than being 6 time champion of AMA superbike. He should've bumped up after 2 or 3 if he could've.
Quote1. What I mean by privateers that "deserve a factory ride" is the guys that show up with equipment that can't touch the factory equipment. Look at Geof May. ...You don't find that amazing? ....
I wish Nicky would come back to AMA and spank all their ass' in superbike just to prove a point. That would be entertaining.
As far as Duhamel is concerned, he did awesome for Honda in AMA. He could've done the same everywhere else. But.. another one that hasn't moved up.
Just like the do in club racing. 1st place champion novice, bumps to expert following season. Pro level racing should be no different until you hit the top.
1) G. May: yes, I think he did great. It doesn't mean he deserves anything. The people who decided who deserves what are the ones signing the checks. That's what you don't seem to get. What is Matt Mladin bringing to Suzuki? If they are paying him to race, he is obviously bringing them something whether you can see it or not. List isn't charity.
2) Nicky coming back and winning would prove absolutely nothing because he was already number one when he left.
3) Are you aware of an offer from Honda to ride the factory NSR500 or RCV211 that DuHamel turned down? Or do you expect him to build a couple in his garage in his spare time? Jeez...
4) you may not realize it, but the AMA championship is not linked to MotoGP. There is no "bumping up." You can't make a rule that says the AMA champion automatically moves up to MotoGP.
You know, you seem to consider the AMA championship as some kind of club racing championship. Do you know what people like Anthony Gobert, DuHamel, Mladin or Bostrom have been paid to race in that "little league?" Maybe you should write the manufacturers (as they obviously don't know any better) and tell them they have been wasting their money on meaningless racing.
Quote...if he could've.
finally, you are beginning to get it.
Your right, they aren't linked, but they should be. Regardless of the factories spending the money, considering most factory teams do run MotoGP they should have their own tier system that bumps people up automatically. But, unfortunately, it's all about bike sales. Oh well. If I was Mladin or even Duhamel, i'd be pissed. i wouldn't want to keep racing AMA and winning year after year. You've already proved your the best after the second championship. Time to move on to bigger and better things, even if it means getting beat down. It's still more of an accomplishment. I'd rather have half of something than all of nothing, and at this point, another chamiponship for Mladin is nothing. The only thing he has is the overall record of how many championships you can win in a row. He'd be better off regardless of age to persue MotoGP, and if I remember correctly, it has been offered. I have to find it though.
If I sound retarted it's a combination of both alcohol, and partial retardness :P
The only reason I think Nicky should come back is to take everything away from everyone else. Why not, that's what Mladin is doing. Look at poor Zemke :P
I'll be back shortly. Gotta make a beer run ;D
QuoteI'll be back shortly. Gotta make a beer run ;D
I am done for today, but I will leave you with one question. Following your reasoning, Kurtis Roberts has accomplished more in his career than Matt Mladin. Could you say that in public with a straight face?
QuoteI am done for today, but I will leave you with one question. Following your reasoning, Kurtis Roberts has accomplished more in his career than Matt Mladin. Could you say that in public with a straight face?
Ummm...... No! ;D
LOL!
Dawn ;)
QuoteWhat exactly do you do?
'
Well, I've raced motorcycles since I was 19...and now I'm 36....
Schools, marketing, etc...
Looks like I sell cars for a Ford dealership now. Start on Monday...and head to Barber to race on Wednesday evening...LOL!
The reality is this.
First, the American market is very big for motorcycles. Ones that the Japanese sell...not scooters. I believe that the US market is number two in teh world for "proper motorcycles."
So, with that, it IS important to have racing in the US. To continually deplete the talent pool here is not good.
Ducati and Michelin brought guys from Europe to race here at VIR.
Bussei? How about Gobert? Polen was brought back here after a lot of stuff in Japan and in WSB. Mladin was brought here from Europe in GP.
Really, racers have been allowed to make a living racing in the US. It wasn't like that before. If you're a "B" level rider for a "backed" team, you might have a contract that pays you $80k. In the late 80's, it wasn't like that. Flip side is that Robert Jensen made $120k racing for Yamaha bucks last year...more races, but no AMA BS like stupid tear downs where the factories try to steal your $hit, promo events, etc.
Europe is driven by European Sponsors.
Sete had the "Telephonica" money....Was at Suzuki, then took it to Honda. Yeah, Colin was on the same team, but the money was more than likely going to fund Sete's gig not Colin's.
Mladin is not a small guy. I think he's bigger than me. So, that kind of genetics is not going to help in the world of GP. Rainey was down to 135# by 1993. I think Mladin out weighs me at 165.
As for Mladin taking anything away from anyone else....
Robert Jensen and I were both at a track day at Mid-America Motorplex in July. Everyone was gone but us.
I've been teaching since 1993...racing schools etc. My big time AMA days collapsed in 1994 for various reasons relating to support and money. I guess I was pretty ok then.
Anyway, Robbie and I were talking about stuff. And we got to talking about how he struggles telling guys how to do thngs...I'm pretty good at that. He doesn't have the patience for it.
So, I start talking about racing for a moment, and tell him how bleak the money is in teaching. Really, I might have a better investment in spending money and trying to go and beat him.
Initially, he took it the wrong way...He looked at me like he wanted to go out on the track right now and kick my as$.
I stopped him and said, "Right. But really, that's all I have to do: go out and beat Robert Jensen at the top of his game. Nothing wrong with it. If I can do it, it's fair and square. Certainly doesn't mean that it's easy."
He understood. Really, it was a compliment that I was giving him. He goes out and wins races all over, often at tracks he doesn't spend time at regularly. Spanks the locals and gets his checks. In July, he hadn't been at home in North Dakota since April. He was heading home. Fun, yeah. All the time? No.
Anyway, Zemke knows what he needs to do to beat Mladin. It's easy. Out ride him, out fox him, whatever. When I was on row two of the AMA 750 Supersport grid at Heartland Park Topeka in 1990...I had Chandler, James, Russell, and Duhammel ahead of me on factory bikes. I really didn't care that I had a stock shock, or whatever. I wanted to beat them, win, etc.
There is no affirmitive action in racing.
It's been a long time since a guy the size of Rob McElnea has been on a GP bike...anyone remember besides me?
QuoteI am done for today, but I will leave you with one question. ÊFollowing your reasoning, Kurtis Roberts has accomplished more in his career than Matt Mladin. ÊCould you say that in public with a straight face?
Actuallly I could argue it. Primairly becasue he TRIED. Mladin has not. Team Vesrah Suzuki is the same way in my eyes. How come Mark Jung and Tray Batey don't race AMA at this time? Money more than likely right?
My whole point to all of this is that if you have the talent, you should compete with the best. Once your the best in your "league" you should move up to a better "league." Nothing more. It's just my feelings on anything. Once you climb one mountain, you should move on to a bigger one. That's all. Climbing the same mountain over and over again means nothing once you've done it a few times.
I guess the $ has more power and influence over anything :( It's a damn shame too. You never know who might just be the next champion. I"d like to see Geof May be the next, but until someone steps down from their factory ride, more than likely he'll never get a chance. :-/
Since I'm still a youngin'... has there ever been a #1 AMA Title that a privateer got on his/her own without a factory ride?
It's gonna be a loooonnnnnnnggggggggg winter ;D
QuoteLooks like I sell cars for a Ford dealership now. ÊStart on Monday...and head to Barber to race on Wednesday evening...LOL!
Does that mean racer discounts for everyone on F350's ;D
Scott Zampach won the AMA 600 Supersport National Championship from Wisconsin. He was sponsored by Don & Roy's in Brookfield, WI. The tuner was Terry, I can't remember his last name, and he works for the Hal's Buell crew.
Todd Harrington won the AMA 600 Supersport Race at Road America in like 1996 or on his http://4and6.com Kawasaki ZX6R. Got him a ride with Muzzy the next year.
Vesrah Suzuki. Good question.
The marketing from Vesrah, Suzuki, and various sponsors precludes that they do WERA endurance. Team Hammer, which is John Ulrich's Team Valvoline now, had the same problem; they were seen as the top guys that were cherry picking. In 1985 4&6 fielded some kid named John Kosinski and Dave Aldana to beat them.
Everyone needs to be beat.
Anyway, sponsors want Vesrah to do what they do. They are willing to pay for it.
Should Yoshimura just move out of AMA Superbike to WSB?
FBF left the US to do WSB with Jamie James in 1989 and then with Doug Polen to win a couple of WSB titles. Then returned.
Shoemacker has won how many F1 titles...should he leave the earth for something better?
But the sponsors still pay him to show up.
Beating Mladin is just a matter of bein more organized than Rich Doan of Yoshimura (who was part of the Human Race Team...a team that beat John Ulrich's Team Suzuki Endurance program of the early 90's) and ride faster than Mat.
Honda, Ducati, Kawasaki, Aprilia, and Yamaha just need to pay someone to ride faster and be better organized. Easy as that, isn't it?
I'll discount everything....Too bad they don't make the SVT Focus anymore.
Now that would be something interesting. Aprilia in AMA superbike. Hmm... something like that would be good for a privateer like Geoff May and Eric Wood. "New" factory team in AMA taking in privateers with full factory support.
??? :-/
Come to think of it, Aprilia would make an interesting presentation in AMA. It's hard to explain an Aprilia bike to anyone that hasn't owned both a Aprilia and a Ducati.
Um, I believe that there is going to be an Aprilia factory team the AMA next year. Of course, I am not sure how much 'factory' support they have.
And, Mladin and Duhamel have both been in GP racing. Admittedly, Mladin went when he was too young. But, if they thought that he would be good enough, somebody would have kept him. They didn't.
I don't know how well an Aprilia would do in AMA without having the "race engineers" there to work on the bikes. Kinda high maintance, but then again aren't most of those bikes ??? Bah... nevermind.
I don't think either of them have raced in MotoGP. Maybe USGP ??? Who knows ??? I sure would like to see it though. Mladin and Duhamel in a future GP round together. That would definelty be interesting.
Then Hopper wouldn't look as bad ;D :P
How about this old wise ones...
Has an Italian V-Twin ever won an AMA championship? Ducati maybe back in the day ???
Interesting Rossi info:
" If Rossi finishes in the top three in the Australian GP, it will be his 100th podium finish in all classes of Grand Prix racing in what will be his 139th GP start."
:o
and Biaggi hurt his foot by dropping a box on it in the garage ;D
QuoteHow about this old wise ones...
Has an Italian V-Twin ever won an AMA championship? Ducati maybe back in the day ???
Superbike:
1994 Troy Corser Ducati
1993 Doug Polen Ducati
Check out this link for a number of other Italian V twin championships... (and even a German horizontally opposed twin championship!) ;D
http://www.amaproracing.com/archive/2003/sb/06_SB_Past_Champs.pdf
DuHammel raced for a "B" Team Yamaha team in 1993. I think it was Galauase...same as Rossi now...but it wasn't as well set up as teh current Yamaha team. At the time, Team Roberts Yamaha was the Yamaha lead team.
DuHammel was there doing well, learning new tracks, etc.
Harley Davidson paid Miguel dearly to come race AMA Superbike in 1994. Really, it was worth it. The bike was kind of crap. My friend Fritz Kling was the second rider.
I had been working with Dale Quarterley as my mentor at AMA Nationals since 1991 at the time. So, I had some hands on experience with his RC30 Superbike and then his ZX7R Muzzy leased superbikes. Compared to my Supersport bikes...600's and 750's, I was always impressed by how light they felt just pushing them around.
Anyway, the AMA had a race at the Pomona Fairplex in 1994. We got there late for the practice day, and found out that we, the riders, had united in not riding. So, we sat for two days not riding. One guy did ride. Basically, the place was a parking lot...it was ridiculous.
So, I went to watch the Superbike practice in one area. The Harley that Fritz was riding popped...actually popped the countershaft seal...so, he was hot and tired pushing it. I walked up. "Want me to push?" "Yeah, you just want to get your hands on it." "Well, yeah!" I replied.
The thing was about as tall as a stock RD400 and it weighed more than my previous GSXR750 Supersport bike. It was just wrong.
Anyway, at Brainerd that year, a fast track, Miguel had that thing up racing for the lead. Miguel can ride.
If Eric & Ben Bostrom, Jake Zemke, Josh Hayes, etc. want to get somewhere....pass the old man Duhammel...if you can.
Miguel can ride until 50, as far as I'm concerned. If no one wants to knock him off...well.
Mladin. Yes, 500cc GP bike. Cagiva.
This is one of these Italian opportunities. They like to find guys that are new to a scene; someone that has recognized talent and then place them in a new situation.
For them...if he does well...well, they are just the smartest people on earth and their bike rules...if he doesn't...well, it's the rider and that's it.
Guess what...his results weren't that great....so, he was cast aside, and I believe FBF picked him up around 1995?
Aprilia?
Mike Hale and someone else were contracted to race the bikes this year. Didn't happen.
MotoGP riders? How about Matt Wait? He was racing FUSA with us last year.
Yes, Pridmore won the first AMA Superbike championship on a BMW. Never won a race at all either. He's known as the first Superbike champion, but to racers from the time...it wasn't the proud way to win a championship. Thomas Stevens faced the same problem when he won the AMA Superbike championship in like 1992 or so.
Other Italian makes have won other AMA Championships. The pro twins stuff was really cool and competitive in the late eighties.
QuoteI don't know how well an Aprilia would do in AMA without having the "race engineers" there to work on the bikes. Kinda high maintance, but then again aren't most of those bikes ??? Bah... nevermind.
With all the race engineers, Ducati has a hard time keeping Geoff May behind Eric Bostrom...Geoff is on a private bike with a mechanic that came from one of my schools.
Hey cornercamping STF-up please DuHamel went to 500 gp w/Pons early 90's teamed w/ Spencer i believe.
Sito was a Honda guy. Don't remember him being with Miguel. But it was aroud that time, Sito was on the 500. Spencer...Well, in 1991 I remember Spencer starting to ride for Two Brothers Racing (Erion), and then the next year again...I remember him being on a 500...sometime then...He also rode for FBF and won in the rain or fog at Laguna in '95.
I wish people would stop saying that Maladin is cherrypicking...i'm sure the Bostrum bros.,Zemke and the rest of the field doesn't feel that way.It takes away from the talent of everyone else.If Matt has done anything he has raised the bar for winning.The problem i have in the SUPERBIKE class is when the factory pulls out of it because the have a new model and are afraid it won't be competitive right away(kawasaki and yamaha)Having the premier class with only 6 factory riders is just wrong
Ya know, it's really not even worth watching a superbike race anymore. You can already guess who's gonna win. What's the point? With GP racing, every race has something weird going down, or has an "unseen" conclusion, such as Colin popping up on a podium, ect. With AMA racing, your top 5 are more or less the same guys every race, and the only difference in where they place is if they overcook a turn, or if they have a crash or mechanical. Other than that, next year is gonna be the same crap, and I ain't watchin it. Just like this year, I would record all AMA races and watch them when I had nothing better to do, but yet I"m home on time regardless of anything else to watch MotoGP live. More or less, AMA is dying out in my opinion, and if there's nothing better to do, I'll watch it. But, it's not on the same level of priority to me as MotoGP.
QuoteHey cornercamping STF-up please DuHamel went to 500 gp w/Pons early 90's teamed w/ Spencer i believe.
and what decade was that ??? I'm talking about now. And no, I won't STF up. We are having an "opinion" convesation. Nobody is write or wrong.
QuoteSuperbike:
1994 Troy Corser Ducati
1993 Doug Polen Ducati
Yeah, that was before I got a drivers license ;D
QuoteHarley Davidson paid Miguel dearly to come race AMA Superbike in 1994. ÊReally, it was worth it. ÊThe bike was kind of crap. ÊMy friend Fritz Kling was the second rider.
Now that was interesting. I remember that. That turd Harley actually made it worth watching the races just because it was out there. I'd love to see something like that again. I hope it happens too. Throw a Buell, a BMW, an MV, and a Petronas FP1 in there and it would rock. Maybe even a Benelli too. 8)
QuoteI wish people would stop saying that Maladin is cherrypicking...
How is he not cherrypicking? He's the 6 time champ that has whooped the entire field over and over again, and when offered a GP ride has shot it down because he wouldn't be competitive as he said himself. Let me ask you this, what if a novice CCS champ protested bumping up to expert, and sat in the novice class for the next 6 years and just won every race? Would you like that? You wouldn't feel that he's cherrypicking? So what makes Mladin any different? He's been doing the exact same thing in AMA.
What GP ride was he offered? Suzuki let him ride their bike for a few laps and that was it , Probably just for some press photos.
Nah, I'm pretty sure they did offer him a factory ride in MotoGP. Even if they didn't, he said publically that if they did offer him a ride in MotoGP, he would pass because he wouldn't be competitive. Let me see if I can find the article and I'll post a link.
Yes, he was offered an opportunity to ride the Suzuki MotoGP bike. He was not offered a contract to race the bike. Pretty different.
There are decent numbers of guys that get offers to "ride bikes". Ulrich rode that bike in Europe. It's a moto GP bike.
Chuck Sorensen is a good rider. Won the AMA 250 class a couple years ago on an Aprilia...there's another Italian Twin for ya...
Anyway, after 9/11, I flew out to California to test the old Honda (the '69 CB750) to see if it was going to handle like we needed it to. Chuck was there and we talked about what he was doing. He had offers to ride 600 Supersport bikes, but if they aren't going to be top flight bikes, what are you going to do? Flounder around in 10th?
Same goes for Mladin. He's a bigger guy, so he's going to be at an immediate physical disadvantage that makes his bike slower. Next, you've got a whole lot of sponsors backing the Euro guys, etc.
College Football coaches make big money. Pro Football coaches make big money. There are varying reasons why some are successful in there areas. The University of Nebraska fired their football coach after a 9-3 season. They hired a former NFL head coach...I think he was with the Raiders or something...anyway, he can't do sqat.
So, goes motorcycling. The machinery and markets have become so specialized that riders get compartmentalized in certain areas. Rich Oliver was a "250 guy". It was almost an act of God that he got the Yamaha AMA Superbike ride.
Why not compete in Superbike?
In the early 90's, there was talk about taking "Superbike", the premier class, and making it a 600 class. And, of course, recently, they made Superbike for 1000's. But the talk is back for 2006 or 2007 where the Premier AMA class will be for 600's...the format is not set.
Anyway, it costs money to race. Yamaha has a four rider team for Superstock and Supersport. Meanwhile, Yosh can only afford three riders...Mladin runs one class.
I could show up at every AMA event with a decent program for about $90k. Wanna make a really good showing? Well, you'd probably up that cost to $250k for Supersport. Wanna try and win? Probably a million.
The field having "factory" riders doesn't necessarily make it exciting. In 1987, the racing was very good between Rainey and Schwantz. The only other "factory" guy was Bubba.
A playing field that is reasonably level makes things interesting. When Robert Jensen was racing in the lead pack at Brainerd in 600 Supersport on a bike that he builds himself...that's cool.
When I was on the podium at Charlotte Motor Speedway after Dale Quarterley got third in 1993...you could lease Kawasaki ZX7R packages from Muzzy for about $50k then...that was exciting...Crying with Jason Pridmore when Dale won at Mid-Ohio...again...good.
Get rid of the Superbikes and put everyone on Supersport or Superstock bikes. Might be a similar outcome, but the results will be more exciting. At least it's attainable.
As for comparing a novice CCS racer to an AMA Pro racer...really bad example. Regardless, anyone can be beaten. Just a matter of doing it. If you think that someone does ten push ups in the morning and you want to beat them...well, you better do twenty. But if you're Colin Edwards, currently, you can do all the push ups in the world...the fact that you are not getting the same financial support from the sponsor that your team mate brought in...yeah, it's a living, but as a racer, you still want the opportunity to do better.
How long will Hopkins stay? His loyalties have been there with Suzuki for a good while.
But, if you don't have any Telephonica money coming out to buy you for a ride with team XYZ...there are risks.
Rossi had a risk to take. But he's on the top of the game. So, Yamaha was able to make him a good salary offer AND buy his whole crew in to the program.
Mat Mladin has Rich Doan and the rest of the crew. That's a good team. Would a new employer be willing to purchase the whole package.
In 1989, I turned expert.
Scott Russell raced for Yoshimura Suzuki that year. He won the AMA Superbike National at Road Atlanta.
He showed up at Blackhawk Farms for a CCS race to make some Suzuki money on a 600 Katana. I didn't care. Wasn't cherry picking to me. My responsibility was to do laps and go faster to make money.
ADD and LD doesn't count in racing. Racers race.
Harley intersting to watch?
We made bets on which lap it would explode. And there were two of them, so there were two bets. It was ridiculous.
Buells struggle against FX bikes.
MV...no committment...and I know that because I know someone who put together a program for last year with them.
Also, you have to have the equipment homologized and offer a contingency program. I was supposed to race a Bimota Belaria (FZR600) in 600 Supersport in 1991. Homologation, numbers made, etc. Didn't happen.
NASCAR is still interesting because Mark Martin, at his older age, is still competitive. Drag racing is certainly that way.
Amateur racing is one thing, but everything after that...there is no such thing as too good.
Quoteand what decade was that ??? I'm talking about now. And no, I won't STF up. We are having an "opinion" convesation. Nobody is write or wrong.
I disagree. I believe you have been consistently wrong in this conversation.
By the way, if I remember correctly, the Yamaha team that Miguel rode for is the French team. They have been around since at least when I started following GPs 20 years ago. Back then, they fielded Christian Sarron. Freddie Spencer rode for them when he tried to come back to the top. They are currently known as Tech 3, with racers Melandri and Abe.
And Mladin race for one full season on the Cagiva. So he too meets your ridiculous "at least he tried" criterion.
You do flap your gums an awful lot for someone who know so little about even recent racing history. ;D
One more thing: to everybody who is blaming Mladin for staying in the US. How come you're not blaming Suzuki for keeping Kenny Roberts for four years with absolutely no results? Whose fault is it that ride isn't available for someone else?
QuoteHey cornercamping STF-up please DuHamel went to 500 gp w/Pons early 90's teamed w/ Spencer i believe.
Miguel rode for the French Sonato (Formerly Galoise, but cigarette $ was a no-no in France then) Yamaha Team in 1992. It was managed by Christian Sarron, the team's former rider. Normally the ride went to a Frenchman, but nobody acceptable was available (Ruggia was a prima dona with a loudmouth father. The "Ruggia Clause", banning the father from the pits, was invented.). Miguel got the nod because in Sarron's words, "He speaks French like my grandmother." During the season, Christian asked Miguel about Spencer, who was racing AMA for Two Brothers. Miguel told him that Freddie had his old style back. So DuHamel was replaced by Spencer on the Sonato team for the '93 season, DuHamel raced the Muzzy Kaw that year, finishing behind Quarterley, who was on the privateer Kawasaki. Spencer's high salary demands made the Sonato team broke after that season.
Mladin, the 1992 Australian Superbike Champion, was signed to a three year deal for Cagiva in 1993. He was told that the first year would be a learning year. Teammate Doug Chandler was having a crisis in confidence with the bike as the throttle had stuck at least twice during the season, causing him to crash. Team manager Giacomo Agostini, anxious for results, brought in John Kocinski mid-season after Suzuki fired him from his 250 ride, and cut Mladin loose at the end of the year.
And yes, Dave, I do remember Rob McElnea, Eddie Lawson's teammate on the Marlboro Yamaha squad. Last I knew, he was managing the Yamaha British Superbike team when Niall MacKenzie and Jamie Whitham were riding. There was a classic blurb on the 1996 tape when the two of them are banging fairings. The announcer yelled, "Team manager Rob McElnea must surely be having
kittens right now!"
QuoteAnd yes, Dave, I do remember Rob McElnea, Eddie Lawson's teammate on the Marlboro Yamaha squad. Last I knew, he was managing the Yamaha British Superbike team when Niall MacKenzie and Jamie Whitham were riding. There was a classic blurb on the 1996 tape when the two of them are banging fairings. The announcer yelled, "Team manager Rob McElnea must surely be having kittens right now!"
LOL, there are a couple of us that remember.
I've got lots of tapes from the 80's with him on the Skoal Bandit Suzuki sqare four GP bike.
That Harley bike sucked.
The VR1000 design started in 1988. Didn't touch a wheel to the track until 93, I believe. Thanx to the lovely progress at harley, the bike was already messed up from square one.
They did what they could with it. Gemini I think did a fair job, considering the VR1000.
They needed a new chassis and a better motor. Harley wasn't going to build one.
Maybe that's for the better? With it being Harley, maybe the new chassis would've been no better? ::)
I know what kind of $ it took to run that team, and they weren't winning.
As far as Vesrah, ever watch Motoworld on ESPN2? Think that they would get anywhere CLOSE to that kind of coverage doing AMA?
Mladin and Duhamel cherrypickers ??? I'm not a Mladin fan, but I wouldn't call him a cherrypicker.
AMA Superbike is currently one of the premier racing classes in the world (hard to believe, being the AMA and all). Although not the case in years past, this year I'd say AMA is on par with WSBK. I would say that Mladin, Duhamel, and Zemke are on par with Toesland, Laconi, and Haga. Heck, Mladin and Duhamel aren't even Americans, the series is pulling a lot of international riders. Other than MotoGP, this is about the top of the game. Saying Mladin is cherrypicking in AMA SB is like saying Lance Armstrong is cherrypicking the Tour de France. Should they tell Lance to stop racing the Tour and only race in Olympic events?
There are only 24 spots in MotoGP. If Mladin were to take a MotoGP ride, some rider would lose one. If that rider were to come race AMA SB, run for a team as good as the yosh team, and win the AMA championship, would the ex-motoGP rider be cherrypicking? Take any MotoGP rider (except maybe Kurtis), put him on the right team in the AMA, and he could win the championship.
I'm ready to see someone beat Mladin next year. If you were Zemke, would you rather beat Mladin next year or win the AMA championship while Mladin raced in Europe?
-z.
QuoteThere are only 24 spots in MotoGP. If Mladin were to take a MotoGP ride, some rider would lose one. If that rider were to come race AMA SB, run for a team as good as the yosh team, and win the AMA championship, would the ex-motoGP rider be cherrypicking? Take any MotoGP rider (except maybe Kurtis), put him on the right team in the AMA, and he could win the championship.
Not necessarily. Kevin Magee on a Smokin' Joe's Honda in 1994 comes to mind. He had an absolutely miserable season.
Cherrypicking would not be the appropriate term for Mladin. Who gets picked for what ride is a dark science involving sponsorships and nationalities and is not always about talent.
Cherrypicking is more about lingering in your rider classification when you could be moving up to being an Expert in your club. Nothing and nobody is holding you back but
you. LRRS's Vanson's Rookie of the Year Award, awarded to the new racer who advances from Amateur to Expert with the most points, stipulates that as soon as a rider is eligible to bump up to the next rider designation, they
must do so. One year (1996, I believe) Vanson's felt that everybody was sandbagging on their advancements and simply stated that nobody deserved the award that year. That's when the stipulation was added, I believe.
Harley and the VR.
Scott Zampach rode it a bit, I think, in the development stage. I remember hearing about it blowing up a lot on the dyno.
Then Fritz Kling rode it a lot in development.
Harley makes, what, 200,000 bikes a year?
Ducati makes, what, 40,000 bikes a year?
I remember Fred Kling saying to me, "It's easy to build a Ducati. You just build a twin motor then add the suspension front and rear." I laughed. But it many ways, it was true. But it seemed that there were people on the Harley end that just decided that they "knew" something that the rest of the world had never developed.
They could have done something if they really wanted to. It's easy to sit behind the rock that they do now.
I remember Magee. Didn't Ricky beat him in the Daytona 200 that year in 1994? Magee beat Rainey to getting his first 500 GP victory in 1988, I think. Then things just didn't go his way...and he went out.
QuoteI remember Magee. Didn't Ricky beat him in the Daytona 200 that year in 1994? Magee beat Rainey to getting his first 500 GP victory in 1988, I think. Then things just didn't go his way...and he went out.
Actually, it was Eddie Lawson that he beat, I think it was Spain. Things went downhill for him after that, starting with the burnout he was doing at Laguna in 1989 when Bubba Shobert ran into him. He had a serious injury at Laguna the next year that kept him out for the rest of the season. Niall MacKenzie subbed for him the rest of the year. From this, there's an interesting story about Niall for the next season involving Ruggia and his dad. ;D
Part of his problem in the States was that the RC45 was a POS. At Loudon that year, him and Mike Smith qualified on the third row, while Mike Hale was on the front row on an RC30 in one of 2-3 Superbike rides he did that year.
Ah, yes, I remember the Laguna irony.
And the goofy RC30/45 stuff.
Funny you should talk about Shobert running into Magee. My wife, who grew up in Santa Cruz just happened to be at that race and as soon as I said it brought back memories for her. Just thought I'd share that.
Yeah, I remember that Shobert/Magee incident. In a way, it ended both of their careers... also Duhamel on the Harley at BIR was just plainly amazing!
Regarding Mladlin, I don't think you can call him a cherrypicker. He is the top rider on the top class of superbikes... He chooses not to ride a MotoGP bike, which I think is smart for someone his age. He got a shot at it with the Cagiva. No need to do it again. He can sure as hell ride a Superbike and there is no shame in that. Look at guys like Haga and McCoy going to WSB. Took them a while to get up to speed.
Hale had a few real good rides on that RC30 and then went to WSB (I think it was with Rumi, right?) and got screwed by Honda!
BTW, Nicky re-signed with Honda for 2 more years:
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2004/Oct/041019_69.htm
After reading the Q&A below, I dislike him even more: (Taken from RRW .com interview with Matt Mladin)
BEGIN
Q: Do you still have that desire for either GP or World Superbike, or will you conclude you career in America?
A: IÕd imagine that IÕd finish my racing career here in the US. The GP thing has always interested me since I was there in Õ93, but certainly even less the more years that we go along, because it is one of those things where you really do need the right package, bike and team, or else you are wasting your time. There are only so many factory bikes to go around and the unfortunate thing is that IÕm unlikely to get one. Honda have already stated that they will only have two official factory bikes in MotoGP and the rest will be the next step down.
As for World Superbike, it just doesnÕt interest me full stop. The level of racing I donÕt think is that high. To have to travel around the world to say that you race in World Superbike does not appeal to me. I see it as a huge step backwards to what IÕm doing here in America. The rules between SWC and the AMA may be slightly different, but the teams here still get the very latest equipment from the factories, so on that score this series is very strong.
To give you an idea, we had factory rider Regis Laconi race here at the final round last weekend, straight after being a title contender in the SWC a week earlier and he couldnÕt get within a second and a half a lap within our times. During the second race I had to do a stop / go for jumping the start and was still able to catch and beat him by over 5 seconds at the end of the race. The AMA is not an easy series by any stretch of the imagination.
END
Matt Mladin talking crap about Regis Laconi's lap times :o Matt Mladin couldn't wipe Regis Laconi's butt. How many times has Laconi been to VIR? WSBK riding level isn't that high :o I hope Haga, Laconi, and the others race AMA and hand Mladin his butt ! >:( Mladin has completely disrespected the whole WSBK paddock in my opinion by saying "the level of racing isn't that high." B.S. Haga wouldn't give or couldn't give Mladin a run for his money :o Someone needs to come in and pop Mladin's oversized ego. Also, regarding Laconi, what kind of support and bike did he have for VIR compared to the level of support and equipment in WSBK? Did he run a full Ducati Corse prepped 999F04 or another B bike hand me down like Bostrom?
Mladin gets no respect from me now. :o Champion or not, he's a jerk off. Hope that someone who knows him shows him this thread, not that he'd care. Hope he falls off his high horse. >:(
QuoteMladin gets no respect from me now. :o Champion or not, he's a jerk off. Hope that someone who knows him shows him this thread, not that he'd care. Hope he falls off his high horse. >:(
I am tempted to send him an e-mail about this thread, but I am afraid it might break his heart... ::)
I'd love to hear his opinion too ::) Call Yates why your at it and ask him what WWF move he'll use at Daytona next season ;D :P Better yet, let me see if I can get Rossi on the BBS real quick to be able to comment on Mladin's comments. I'd call Haga, but you know what Mladin says, he's above those guys ::)
::)
QuoteI'd love to hear his opinion too ::) Call Yates why your at it and ask him what WWF move he'll use at Daytona next season ;D :P Better yet, let me see if I can get Rossi on the BBS real quick to be able to comment on Mladin's comments. I'd call Haga, but you know what Mladin says, he's above those guys ::)
::)
I don't have Yates' contact info...
Then someone find Anthony Fania's number and see if he has it. Geez.. network people, network.
;D
QuoteThen someone find Anthony Fania's number and see if he has it. Geez.. network people, network.
;D
Hold on to your day job, whatever it is this week. Comedy isn't going to work for you.
Neither is my day job. I've about had it with work and everything else. >:(
Ok, I haven't read all 5 pages, so sue me if I repeat anything.
As far as Mladin Cherry Picking....WHATEVER! Did he win every race? NO. He's working for those wins. Duhamel, well he just Kicks @ss, he should be every racer over 30 hero. Try telling him he's too old to be racing.
Privateers and the AMA...Yes there are haves and have not's, and it does stink. Why can't hey do like MotoGP and have factory support teams, that might help close the gap. Or else have a true super stock class where the only Diff would be the rider.
As far as Nicky coming home and kicking butt....I doubt it. He won his AMA title on the RC51 and everyone else was on 750's. Things are different know, I think he would have his hands full.
In closing...Yates is a tool. If I did that in my work place I would have lost my job, been sued and probally went to jail for assault.
I'll throw in the story now.
When Kevin Magee was injured in 1990, MacKenzie subbed for him for the rest of the season on the Lucky Strike Suzuki. Despite starting his year at Round 3, he finished the season fourth in the points.
Magee had a binding contract, so he came back in 1991, leaving Niall without a ride. Christian Sarron took pity upon him, so he made a special arrangement. Jean Phillipe Ruggia had two bikes at his disposal, and he was to pick which bike he wanted to race at the end of the first round of practice. The other bike would then go to Niall for qualifying and the race.
Each time, Ruggia would pick his bike and dismiss the other one that went to MacKenzie as an unridable piece of junk. MacKenzie would qualify ahead of Ruggia and then finish ahead of him in the race. After the race, Ruggia's dad would go to the press and complain that his son got beat because Yamaha gave MacKenzie the better bike! After a season of this, the Ruggia Clause, which banned Jean Phillipe's father from the pits, was inserted into his contract. ;D