i have raced novice north central wera all this season and want to try the ccs race at gingerman on oct 9-10.
could someone let me know the major differences between a ccs vs a wera race weekend?
is there anything i will need to do prior to showing up at gingerman? (ie. call ccs, get ccs license, etc)
Hey Jiggy!
We haven't met, but I know of you from the WERA BBS. Welcome to CCS. I'll be at Gingerman that w/e too. Be sure to look me up (grey trailer w/ "Black Ops Racing" on the sides).
Have you checked out the actual CCS website http://www.formulausa.com/forms for info about license reciprocity or obtaining a CCS license?
Oh yeah, PLEASE don't use that avatar you had at the other board. It always disturbed me :o ;D
H-man
#42 (Am)
You should be able to get a CCS license at the track by using you WERA license as credentials. The schedule of events should be on line at www.ccsracing.com
Have fun!
Dawn :)
If you haven't been to the track before, come on Saturday, ride the track and meet and greet the CCS folks. Might even be able to take care of your paperwork on Saturday afternoon.
Brian, I was thinking about doing the same thing........... ;D Just got to do all the math to see if it'll cost too much (think I can only run my 400 competitively in one class).
Quote...think I can only run my 400 competitively in one class.
Big deal ::) I'm in two classes and
not competitive in either ;D
If you can get your money straight, just come on out and play anyway Sunny. 8)
H-man
thanks for the replies, folks!
h-man: what is your name on wera bbs....hman? i saw you in the members list... thanks for the link...was helpful, but i am too lazy to read through all 12 pages.....i will look for you at gingerman.
dawn: saw that wera license plus $35 will get me a ccs license. but didn't see any race schedule for that weekend...race times on each day. did i miss it?
moto: yup. been to gingerman a couple times. planning on doing the stt day there oct2-3 with some friends also in preparation.
sunny: i will look for you there.
so what i am basically getting is:
- i need to find a schedule so i know what time to show up.
- am hoping someone will tell me what classes i can race my (wera superstock legal) '02 gsxr 600 in.
- figure i can show up and get my license and register at the track on sat. and not have to do anything prior.
CCS race schedules in PDF format will be posted on ccsracing.com prior to the event. Look maybe 2 weeks before or later. USually they have it.
a GSXR 600 can enter:
MiddleWeight Supersport
MiddleWeight Superbike
MiddleWeight Grandprix
HeavyWeight Supersport
HeavyWeight Superbike
Unlimited Supersport
Unlimited GrandPrix
and 30 minute mini-endurance (not reallly 30 minute because the clock starts at 5 board)
GTU (middleweight)
GTO (unlimited)
You can show up on raceday morning, pay for your license (Which is less than $100 because it is the end of the year), pick the number you want and post-entry for races. Just bring your WERA license
thanks for telling me the classes.....
holy crap! 10 races? wow.
After reading the rulebook again, I found that my bike can't be competitive in any class......... :-/
Basically according to the rulebook, I can only run my bike (1998 400) in LWSS althought not competitively against SV650. Of course, there are other classes I could run which would put my bike at an even greater disadvantage............. :-/ I guess CCS doesn't have any classes that allow a WERA SS legal 400 to be competitve in anything. Is this because no one run a SS legal 4-stroke 400? Anyway, doesn't look like I'll be racing in CCS until the rulebook changes to support SS legal 400.
If any of you race a SS legal 400 in CCS, please let me know what classes you raced in and how competitvely you are against other bikes.
Jiggy - You're right, the schedule hasn't been posted for the 10/9-10 w/e. More than likely it'll follow along the lines of the CCS 7/31-8/1 w/e. If you ping me w/ a fax number, I'll fax that schedule to you tomorrow.
Sunny - Geez man! Do you want to race or just go out there if you feel you can be among the top 5 or so.
My intreptation of the rules (and you can take that however you wish ;)) has your bike eligible for LWSS (as you noted), ULSB, LWGP & Thunderbike. And of course you could choose to race up in the MWSS and LWSB classes.
Sunny, I'm pretty sure that you can run away from me on my F2. So why not enter the TB race? At least you won't be last ;D
Oh yeah, you better start lining up your tow vehicle now :-X;)
H.
Gingerman is a 1 day event. Sunday 10/10. Saturday, is a LP Sport Rider day which racers can run for like $80.
Typically Gingerman runs their own practice on Friday for ~$100. You can call them to be sure.
If I were spending your money.....
Show up on Friday night before 10pm to get into the track.
Run LP practice on Saturday to straighten everything out.
Run 3-4 classes on Sun. If I recall correctly, there are no GT races at Gingerman. Only sprint races.
If you're currently a WERA rider, just show up with your race license and a checkbook/credit card/wad-o-cash.
The biggest thing that WERA people were getting dinged for in CCS tech, was showing up without gear, and having a non-yellow amateur plate (light green, flourescent(sp?) colors, etc). Make SURE the plate is YELLOW, and the numbers are per the standards in the CCS rulebook or you'll be doing some ad-hoc work at the track.
Safety wire standards are less stringent in CCS from WERA, so you should have no problems.
Other than that, pay attention to the instructions on "white line rule", entry and exit areas.
h-man: since it looks like this is a one day event, i will wait for the schedule to come out. thanks, though.
jeff: i have been running 5 races pretty comfortably each sunday with wera.....which 5 ccs races would you suggest? do any have purses? also, thanks for the tech advice, i read the rules and think my number display will be fine, but i will bring some extra numbers in case of duplication. i run novice #36, do you already know of someone who runs that in ccs (that will likely be at gingerman)?
Quoteh-man: since it looks like this is a one day event, i will wait for the schedule to come out. thanks, though.
You probably won't see a schedule if it's not posted now. You might want to call them to ask.
Quotejeff: i have been running 5 races pretty comfortably each sunday with wera.....which 5 ccs races would you suggest? do any have purses?
Assuming you're on a 600 inline 4...
Middleweight Supersport
Middleweight Superbike
Heavyweight Supersport
Heavyweight Superbike
Unlimited GP
Unlimited GP is the only purse paying class in the above list (I think it pays anyway... but I KNOW the SS/SB races don't pay).
Running this schedule will keep you hopping. You'll have a lot of races that are separated by only 1 race. Little time for crash repair or tire changes if necessary (and G-man CHEWS tires unless your suspension is perfect for the track).
You will be very competitive on a 600 in the HW and UL classes since the track is so small. Additionally, the grids are smaller on the HW/UL races.
Quotealso, thanks for the tech advice, i read the rules and think my number display will be fine, but i will bring some extra numbers in case of duplication. i run novice #36, do you already know of someone who runs that in ccs (that will likely be at gingerman)?
If there's someone running 35, CCS may just have you put an X on, or have some variation of 35 (351, 135, etc). Since it's the last weekend in the MW/GL, they will probably be lenient on this.
QuoteSunny - Geez man! Do you want to race or just go out there if you feel you can be among the top 5 or so.
My intreptation of the rules (and you can take that however you wish ;)) has your bike eligible for LWSS (as you noted), ULSB, LWGP & Thunderbike. And of course you could choose to race up in the MWSS and LWSB classes.
Sunny, I'm pretty sure that you can run away from me on my F2. So why not enter the TB race? At least you won't be last ;D
Oh yeah, you better start lining up your tow vehicle now :-X;)
H.
Sorry, no offese H. I race to win. ;D If I knew I am entering a class without a chance to win due to bike difference, then I rather spend my money on a trackday to just have fun and not being competitive (race = competition to me). Of course, I sometime do this (enter a race where my bike is definitely not competitive) to get a tow from faster bikes/riders to learn the faster line or gearing to achieve better average speed around a new track.
I can't race my bike in ULSB because my bike is a FOUR STROKE 400, LIQUID COOLED, but POST-1992. For the same reason (Post-1992), I can't race it in TB.
I can definitely run (not race; it's a joke for me to be in it) in LWGP and watch everyone running away from me quickly (unless most race a standard 400 machine like me, I don't see any machine configuration that didn't have a huge power and/or torque/weight ratio advantage). Same thing in MWSS and LWSB..........
I am not complaining nor making excuses, but just making rational decisions upon on facts. Again, this is because I race to win, not to have fun. I'll do trackday if I want to have fun! ;)
I believe the reason for the lack of competative classes for you on the 400 is due to the lack of riders in CCS on them. CCS has a really full schedule currently during their events and definately doesn't have room to be adding classes, if anything I bet there may be a slight reduction in number of classes for next season? :-/ It's getting to the point where some duplicate and lesser run classes will probably either be combined with other races or be eliminated all together in the near future (just checked with the crystal ball on that 1 ;)).
Oh yeah, you did write 1998 above. Oh well, gues you're just hosed speed racer.
I'll catch ya around I'm sure.
Will you be at the STT 10/2-3 w/e at Gingerman?
Here is a direct link to the schedule for the Gingerman event.
http://www.formulausa.com/shows/pdf/Gingerman%20Oct%20Schedule
You probably didn't see it because it's listed as South Haven, Michigan, not Gingerman. They are scheduled to run 30 minute GT races along with sprints on Sunday so you will have a variety of choices. :)
CCS has unliimited AM classes unlike wera! I may try to run the wera races at Nashville next year (after moving to whiteplates) just cause it's so close...and see how faster/slower the wera guys are! :)
QuoteWill you be at the STT 10/2-3 w/e at Gingerman?
I am not sure yet, but I am thinking about it. ;)
QuoteAfter reading the rulebook again, I found that my bike can't be competitive in any class......... :-/
Anyway, doesn't look like I'll be racing in CCS until the rulebook changes to support SS legal 400.
Um, how about changing the bike before you expect the organization to cater to your vintange needs?
:D
Speaking of, I am thinking of doing the same thing Jig is doing, although with an SV.
The GT races WILL be run at Gingerman. If you can swing the $70 fee, run the GTU. They are only 25 minutes, though.
Heather
(not the thread jack), but are these the classes I can race the SV in:
GT Lights
Lightweight GP
Lightweight Supersport
Lightweight Superbike
Supertwins/Thunderbike?
And this GTU which is 25 minutes?
Thanks.
Quote(not the thread jack), but are these the classes I can race the SV in:
GT Lights
Lightweight GP
Lightweight Supersport
Lightweight Superbike
Supertwins/Thunderbike?
And this GTU which is 25 minutes?
Thanks.
I believe you can run an SV in the GTU. Someone else will have to chime in here. Edgar runs his SV in Middleweight GP, too. You'll just be going up against 600s.
Heather
Yeah, technically you can run your SV in all middleweight classes as long as rules allow it (IE: To run in MW Supersport, your bike has to be SS legal), but you will be racing against 600's and such.
You can also run the SV in Unlimited GP. One of the funest races I had as a novice was me and Jesse Janisch running our SV's in Unlimited GP at Gingerman and him being in first place and me in second for the first couple of laps.
Racer Mike - Thanks for the direct link. I knew where to look but for some reason was coming up empty in my search.
QuoteSorry, no offese H. I race to win. ;D If I knew I am entering a class without a chance to win due to bike difference, then I rather spend my money on a trackday to just have fun and not being competitive (race = competition to me).
I am not complaining nor making excuses, but just making rational decisions upon on facts. Again, this is because I race to win, not to have fun. I'll do trackday if I want to have fun! ;)
No harm, no foul Sunny. :-*
I understand your sentiments. Though I will add this - without being mean spirited myself - I can't help but shake my head at those (and there are others) who make that decision about their participation in sport(s).
That thought pattern says there is no fun/joy in
competition itself. That whatever dicing and clean close quarter maneuvers that may go on during a race are emotionally void or, in the final analysis, certainly much less important or meaningfull than to actually win (or finish on the podium).
Financial incentives aside, the AMA grids for SS & SBK would be mighty thin if racers like Ciccatto, Higbee, Ulrich, Caylor, Toye, Wood, Holden, blah, blah, blah all believed it to be a waste to be in a race unless they could beat the factory and factory support riders like Zemke, Mladin, DuHamel, yates, Spies, DiSalvo Gobert, Hayden (2x), Hacking, Buckmaster and so on.
It really is up to you how you care to define and seek your fun/joy and happiness in this world. I just think you're unduly limiting your opportunities for a good time if you just don't enter any race that you cannot win.
H.
Quote(not the thread jack), but are these the classes I can race the SV in:
GT Lights
Lightweight GP
Lightweight Supersport
Lightweight Superbike
Supertwins/Thunderbike?
And this GTU which is 25 minutes?
Thanks.
Supertwins and thunderbike are two seperate races. You may know that but the way you listed it I can't tell. Also, thunderbike is a sprint on Sunday (if you didn't see the schedule. I really wouldn't bother running the GTU if I were you unless you need the track time. It is the same as the Middleweight solo with WERA. One big Difference between WERA and CCS in the LW class is the reversal of the grid sizes as far as EX/AM goes. There are a TON of expert lightweights, escpecially on a FUSA weekend. A TONNNN because of all the thunderbikes and the USGPRU bikes. Should be great for you. Not as many AM's though. It is easier to go expert with CCS so the slant is backwards.
QuoteSupertwins and thunderbike are two seperate races. You may know that but the way you listed it I can't tell. Also, thunderbike is a sprint on Sunday (if you didn't see the schedule. I really wouldn't bother running the GTU if I were you unless you need the track time. It is the same as the Middleweight solo with WERA. One big Difference between WERA and CCS in the LW class is the reversal of the grid sizes as far as EX/AM goes. There are a TON of expert lightweights, escpecially on a FUSA weekend. A TONNNN because of all the thunderbikes and the USGPRU bikes. Should be great for you. Not as many AM's though. It is easier to go expert with CCS so the slant is backwards.
So what events would I want with the Superbike for Sunday? I just plan on running a few races, so I won't run any MW classes.
(Is the Gingerman schedule posted? I read that it wasn't yet).
Courtesy of GSXR Racer Mike, here it is. AGAIN. ::) Sheez... some people's children ;)
http://www.formulausa.com/shows/pdf/Gingerman%20Oct%20Schedule
:P 8)
H.
Aw man .. I'm "that guy" now.
Thanks H. :)
Oh yeah, Jiggy.... You asked what my tag is over at the WERA BBS. It's currently "The H-man".
I started out as "H-man" but I forgot my password ::) :-[
H.
QuoteUm, how about changing the bike before you expect the organization to cater to your vintange needs?
:D
I know, I know, but the SV650 reliability problems I've been hearing is scaring me. Racing cost a lot already by itself, a un-reliable machine is the last thing I need......... ;)
Well at least your saving money in entry fees by racing a bike that doesn't have any classes to competitively run in.
;)
QuoteWell at least your saving money in entry fees by racing a bike that doesn't have any classes to competitively run in.;)
Seriously LOL ;D
QuoteWell at least your saving money in entry fees by racing a bike that doesn't have any classes to competitively run in.
;)
that was funny. eddie, when i first saw you on the wera board, you were all diplomatic and the peace seeker....now its fun to see you be an ass.
see you at gingerman. you there for the stt date 10/2-3 also?
Eddie is just playing with me, so is H. It's all good! ;)
i know he is....i was just kidding. i honestly think it is funny.
QuoteEddie is just playing with me, so is H. It's all good! ;)
Sunny
what are you thinking? I remember in 99 a guy won a ccs championship in an old vfr400. I think chuck was his name. An someone else down south had a vfr400 that was retarded fast but he only raced it a few times here an there. He was also racing singles an twins. The bike has surfaced a few times an whoopped some ass an went away.
You are still a dipshit
Bobo
Quotethat was funny. eddie, when i first saw you on the wera board, you were all diplomatic and the peace seeker....now its fun to see you be an ass.
see you at gingerman. you there for the stt date 10/2-3 also?
I know, I was wasn't I? I've been thinking of dropping the sponsors from my sig line, freeing myself so I can just go ballistic on everyone.
:)
The CCS date is now up in the air. I hate to say it, but I'm being pursued into engaging in other activities (against my will) that don't revolve around racing. :(
Hey Sunny .. just get an SV. I don't think I can stand another season of hearing excuses from you. ;)
QuoteSunny
what are you thinking? I remember in 99 a guy won a ccs championship in an old vfr400. I think chuck was his name. An someone else down south had a vfr400 that was retarded fast but he only raced it a few times here an there. He was also racing singles an twins. The bike has surfaced a few times an whoopped some ass an went away.
You are still a dipshit
Bobo
I am thinking straight...........and you are not......... ::) ;D
Read the rulebook. An old vfr400 not only can race in more races (being Pre-1993), but also more competitively due to the engine displacement limit (450 cc) and competition back in 1999 (back then he doesn't have to race very competitive SV650s, right?). Think about the current rule and competition is what I am doing, maybe you should use your brain more before you say anything just because you don't like me. By the way, you don't know who I am, or maybe you do but I definitely don't know who you are othyer than a tough guy behind the keyboard (bobo?).......... :P
FYI, I did win a championship on my 400 with WERA this year (could have win another one easy, but didn't make it to the last round due to family event and the fact that it doesn't make any financial sense to do so). ;D
Bobo....
Sunny....
Be nice you two. ;)
Dawn
Just to be clear, I never started anything with bobo, but it seems that he/she is attacking me every chance he/she gets..........I don't even know who he/she is as I said...................
since my last post was deleted for no reason ????? let me repeat myself, a guy named chuck won a championship on a vfr400 in 99 against sv650s. its not your bike sunny...its you....
Bobo
You're last post was deleted because it was inciteful.
Your signature line doesn't help your case either.
Dawn
[quote
Your signature line doesn't help your case either.
Dawn [/quote]
You gotta love it. All the BBS members on a racing board should be forced to have a race off when they start fighting, and the winner gets to set up the losers Avatar and signature. Power like that would stop most things and let what did start really have a little punch. ;D
one thing that is required with CCS is hardened sidecovers on left side on modern bikes like your GSXR
Quoteone thing that is required with CCS is hardened sidecovers on left side on modern bikes like your GSXR
i assume the factory pro billet case covers will do ok?
Yes
What is the participation like in the Supertwins series. I am considering running both series with CCS and WERA next season. I read through many of the results and didn't see a great deal of riders in that class, other than SV riders. Does CCS have more than 1 class eligible for a 1000 cc air cooled v-twin?
Oops.. 1000cc Liquid cooled V-Twin.
A 1000 cc liquid cool twin with 4 valves per cylinder (Mille, RC51, 999, etc) can race in Supertwins, Heavyweight Superbike, Heavyweight Supersport, Unlimited Superbike, Unlimited Supersport and Unlimited GP.
one last set of questions, i promise (unless i think of another)....
about how many folks would you expect on the grid in any of my races (gsxr600)?
and how are grid positions determined?
It really depends on a lot of factors. Not sure for this Gingerman, but the last one had a real light turnout. Maybe things will change since this is the last race of the season.
But as an example, last Blackhawk event had about 20 MW novice entries. Last Gingerman had about 12 or so in each race.
thanks.
if the turnout is light, grid position won't matter that much....but
do you know how grid positions are determined?
practice/qualifying laptimes?
order of sign up?
point standings?
Grids are based on order of signup...
i appreciate all the help guys....i will be there tomorrow and saturday and will be looking for each of you to thank you personally for your help here.
thanks again.
btw...i am on a yellow and black gsxr600 am#36. stop by and say hi!!!
Way to be Brian! :D [oops... me and names ::)]
You came and got jiggy with us and walked off with some wood 8)
Looking forward to seeing you some moore out there.
Okay, okay. So my word play is a little weak ::) Seriously though, you were impressive.
H-man
Congrats Brian, sounded like you kicked some @$$es!!!!!!! ;)
.
QuoteWay to be Brian! :D [oops... me and names ::)]
You came and got jiggy with us and walked off with some wood 8)
Looking forward to seeing you some moore out there.
Okay, okay. So my word play is a little weak ::) Seriously though, you were impressive.
H-man
thanks, h-man....was great seeing you again.
i may try some ccs events next year...we'll see.
QuoteCongrats Brian, sounded like you kicked some @$$es!!!!!!! ;)
thanks, sunny....you shoulda been there!!!
hey eddie (kraft).....now my memory is not very good, and you may have already told me....but i think i forgot....
now tell me again why you couldn't race on sunday....?
(hehehehe)
Quotethanks, sunny....you shoulda been there!!!
If I can find something competitive against SV650s, then I'll be racing in CCS as well next year (don't like SV650s due to the motor issues I've been hearing)! Ryan wants me to go race 600 with him next year, but I am a wuss and didn't really want to get involved with the craziest pack of wolfs.....................
QuoteIf I can find something competitive against SV650s, then I'll be racing in CCS as well next year (don't like SV650s due to the motor issues I've been hearing)! Ryan wants me to go race 600 with him next year, but I am a wuss and didn't really want to get involved with the craziest pack of wolfs.....................
sunny, i will pay you $500 if you never use the word 'competitive' again.....
Quotesunny, i will pay you $500 if you never use the word 'competitive' again.....
Ok, send me the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ::) ;D ;)
Quotesunny, i will pay you $500 if you never use the word 'competitive' again.....
ROFL ;D ;D 8)
But like Eddie noted before Sunny, you should have a boat load of cash on hand now from all the money you saved by not entering racesd you didn't believe your bike would be compet.... er.... you know. ;)
H.
Raced our 99 SV for 2-1/2 seasons before doing a rebuild. Now it Superbiked, except for a clutch replacement, there's been no issues.
SV's in my book if built right a pretty much bullet proof.
;)
QuoteROFL ?D ;D 8)
But like Eddie noted before Sunny, you should have a boat load of cash on hand now from all the money you saved by not entering racesd you didn't believe your bike would be compet.... er.... you know. ;)
H.
?
No, all my money goes to my mortgage. I was spending an average of $1,000 more than what I made during the racing season too, so I got to save even harder to balance that out during the off season, otherwise, I wouldn't have any money left in my bank account, and won't be able to race at all.
Yes, I don't think, I know what I can do and can not do. My bike is definitely not COMPETITIVE (sorry Brian, H made me.......... ::)) against anything other than those allowed in the WERA D SuperStock class. I'll admit that I am a slow rider though. :-[
QuoteRaced our 99 SV for 2-1/2 seasons before doing a rebuild. Now it Superbiked, except for a clutch replacement, there's been no issues.
SV's in my book if built right a pretty much bullet proof.
;)
Agree, most engine related problems I have heard are from the newer bikes or modified engines. I can't spend the money to build the motor right to begin with, so I rather not take the chance buying one which may blew up the very first race I enter it in.
Sunny -
I thik it's all in your head. Being a slow rider has nothing to do with competition. If your a "slow" rider it wouldn't matter if we put you on a works Suzuki, you would still run the same lap times. I say run your bike anyway until you have pushed it to it's limits and then you will be justified in purchasing a new machine.
Just some FYI, check the last results for Nelson Ledges and you will find an SV650 in the top 5 of the C novice classes. That in itself defies the competition theory. If nothing else, race just to get better. :) and have fun...
QuoteIf nothing else, race just to get better. :) and have fun...
I like that!!!
I am going to stick with my bike and race in the same classes (DSS/DSB) next year and see how much better I could be lap time wise (and as a racer)! ;)
Quote...My bike is definitely not COMPETITIVE (sorry Brian, H made me.......... ::))...[
i knew you couldn't do it. you missed out on $500
btw. the reason i pick on you so much for this is that i heard it all year long...'if i had that bike' or 'my bike this' or 'my bike that'
at our level it is not the bike, it is the rider.
It's ok Brain, I don't mind you picking on me. I am just trying to be realistic, and you know how SLOW I am as you saw me racing this season.
I knew rider makes a big difference, but there is no way that I could make up the ground lost on acceleration (I am no Rossi). I am pretty sure you understand what I am saying. ;)
Quote... but there is no way that I could make up the ground lost on acceleration. I am pretty sure you understand what I am saying....
no, i don't. i raced against 1000cc bikes all year this year. the difference between a 600cc and a 1000cc inline four is probably more than the difference between your 400 inline four and the 650 twins. i either got beat or won because of rider ability, not how powerful the bike was.
when i lined up on the grid i never concerned myself with the size of their bike, but instead was always concerned with the name on the back of the leathers.
another example. i did a lot of trackdays on my totally stock '00 zx9r....my times on my '02 gsxr600 track bike were almost identical. talk about a difference in bikes and power!!!
i will repeat. at our level the difference is the rider, not the bike.
btw. i was not saying you are slow, i thought you were doing good. i watched you follow eddie kraft at nelson and was impressed....(but i would never admit that in public).
Jig's right Sunny. You make too many excuses. If you're going to race the 400 again next year, you should prepare yourself for the reality that comes with it. Small grids, a couple classes, a bike you can blame as uncompetitive. If I were you, I'd do whatever I could to get an SV and put yourself on a level playing ground to eliminate the excuses.
Not that I'm one to talk this year. I've had plenty of excuses. I hate using them, so I'll just say I was slow this year, but you can bet I'm going to try and eliminate the excuses for next year.
holy crap sunny...you have more lamo excuses than anyone i ever seen.....bla bla bla bla........you could be riding a liter bike an it would still be slow....get the conection.......duh-huh....dork,,,, ::)
Quoteholy crap sunny...you have more lamo excuses than anyone i ever seen.....bla bla bla bla........you could be riding a liter bike an it would still be slow....get the conection.......duh-huh....dork,,,, ::)
pipe down booboo.
i was not trying to start a flame war.
Quotepipe down booboo.
i was not trying to start a flame war.
no flaming...just sic of his whining....that is a quite capable machine in poor hands. 8)
If I remember correctly, last year Jason ran a 1:24 or 1:26 on Sunny's bike at Grattan the first time he rode it. ::) I think that was the same weekend Sunny crashed my 748... but enough about all that. I'm not getting involved.
::)
QuoteIf I remember correctly, last year Jason ran a 1:24 or 1:26 on Sunny's bike at Grattan the first time he rode it. ::) I think that was the same weekend Sunny crashed my 748... but enough about all that. I'm not getting involved.
::)
jason who.......pridmore? disalvo?
Jason Etter
QuoteIf I remember correctly, last year Jason ran a 1:24 or 1:26 on Sunny's bike at Grattan the first time he rode it. ?::) ?I think that was the same weekend Sunny crashed my 748... but enough about all that. I'm not getting involved.
::)
Hahahahahaha......................you are way off as you have reported your own best time at Grattan or anywhere else..................just can't stop your BS self I guess.........................I thought you are leaving CCS forum alone, but then your word is never good............................ ::)
Jason did ran 1:31's. If he could run 1:26's on my bike (not even trying to go as far as 1:24's), he should definitely be racing in MotoGP.
Eddie/Brian, I knew that I could ran better time at every track I been to on my bike, and will prove that next year. I am not making an excuse for me still being slower than what I could be as a racer. Just saying that I am not going to run my bike in a class that I knew I have no chance winning because the reality is a SV650 is too much for a stock 400 engine (in both HP/torque while weight less in full race trim such as Eddie's). This is the reality no matter how much you want to discuss it. Even Jason Etter or whoever riding my bike will not be able to run with SV650s unless it's got a slow rider on it (I did passed/beated some slow SV650 racers this year). I make no excuses in lossing to anyone in the classes that my bike is competitively in though. Aaron Kidd did raced much harder and better than me in the last two months of the season and beated me in DSB on his modified FZR400 (engine bored out 1 or 2 mm I believe) a few times although I still had the advantage in points and could won the championship just by finishing the race in the last round at Grattan (I decided not to participate in that race as my cousin is getting engaged that same weekend and I already wrapped up a championship in DSS).
I will definitely get myself a SV650 or a 600 later to run with people like you (maybe another year or two; definitely have to stick with my 400 for next year). I know the best way to improve myself as a racer is to run with the best, not in DSS/DSB where there are only an average of 5 competitors. I make no excuse that I am still a relatively slow racer.
QuoteHahahahahaha......................you are way off as you have reported your own best time at Grattan or anywhere else..................just can't stop your BS self I guess.........................I thought you are leaving CCS forum alone, but then your word is never good............................ ::)
Jason did ran 1:31's. If he could run 1:26's on my bike (not even trying to go as far as 1:24's), he should definitely be racing in MotoGP.
Eddie/Brian, I knew that I could ran better time at every track I been to on my bike, and will prove that next year. I am not making an excuse for me still being slower than what I could be as a racer. Just saying that I am not going to run my bike in a class that I knew I have no chance winning because the reality is a SV650 is too much for a stock 400 engine (in both HP/torque while weight less in full race trim such as Eddie's). This is the reality no matter how much you want to discuss it. Even Jason Etter or whoever riding my bike will not be able to run with SV650s unless it's got a slow rider on it (I did passed/beated some slow SV650 racers this year). I make no excuses in lossing to anyone in the classes that my bike is competitively in though. Aaron Kidd did raced much harder and better than me in the last two months of the season and beated me in DSB on his modified FZR400 (engine bored out 1 or 2 mm I believe) a few times although I still had the advantage in points and could won the championship just by finishing the race in the last round at Grattan (I decided not to participate in that race as my cousin is getting engaged that same weekend and I already wrapped up a championship in DSS).
I will definitely get myself a SV650 or a 600 later to run with people like you (maybe another year or two; definitely have to stick with my 400 for next year). I know the best way to improve myself as a racer is to run with the best, not in DSS/DSB where there are only an average of 5 competitors. I make no excuse that I am still a relatively slow racer.
you are not listening......all your above quote says is:
'blah, blah, excuse, blah, blah, excuse'
and then you throw in that you are 'not making any excuses'
listen, sunny <jig grabs sunny's head and makes him look him in the eye to guarantee he is listening>
pick one:
- either you agree with us and feel that the rider is the majority of the equation
- or you disagree and feel the the performance gap is too big to overcome.
we can debate based on your response. but, you gotta pick ONE!
You don't get it Sunny. Try to *listen* rather than talk all the time. Even in the midst of you claiming not to make excuses, you're making them again.
You're so stubborn. Ever wonder why so many people are always on your case?
:)
Quotepick one:
- either you agree with us and feel that the rider is the majority of the equation
- or you disagree and feel the the performance gap is too big to overcome.
we can debate based on your response. but, you gotta pick ONE!
Well, almost.
My take on this is that Sunny would agree with you that the rider does make a (maybe even
the) difference.
However ::), me thinketh Sunny is also saying he wants to close the performance gap that he perceives so that regardless of
his rider skill
HE he
believes he has the chance to win.
Like a noted a ways back Sunny, I feel for you man. Your fun doesn't come from the competition or the paddock, only in whether you win. :(
H-man
Brian/Eddie, I am not debating here, but agreeing with you guys. I guess you are not reading me right............
Quote- either you agree with us and feel that the rider is the majority of the equation
Yes, I agree and knew that I am still a relative slow rider and could improve a lot.
Quote- or you disagree and feel the the performance gap is too big to overcome.
Yes, that's how I feel if I had to race against SV650 or the like in other classes than DSS/DSB.
So is it clear now? I also said that I'll continue to race my 400 in DSS/DSB (where the bike is not an issue) and work on my riding (the biggest factor) and improve my lap time next year. Plus, I'll work hard to get a SV650 or the like later (can't work out the finance for the coming year as I may be making a big life commitment if you know what I mean; Eddie, aren't you in the same shoe?), or maybe a 600 to come racing with you and try to learn and improve through thougher competition.
Eddie, I truly don't understand why people are always on my case as you put it. I thought that I am always clear to the points with reason, but maybe no one is reading what I am saying but what they want to think I am really saying, or just like to alienating/mess with me due to the WERA incident? ???? ?
Again, no matter how much more you would like to turn this into an argument, I am just explaining how I see things and try to be realistic about it instead of dreaming up something that only Dan would do. Yes, I will not deny that I am stubborn, but that shouldn't cause anyone to not see my points. I believe I am a person one can easily reason with although I do have strong opinions on things based on facts/what I know.
H, thanks for listening as it seems that you are the only one who isn't biased toward anything nor judging me from any prior experience or how others feel about me and did read what I am trying to say. I know I suck at expressing myself, but thought that I am at least clear with my points........... Obviously, I am still very bad at it. :-[ :-/ I am going to just shut up (otherwise, it seems that I am losing friends and/or causing people to dislike me over nothing...........hopefully not yet with Eddie and Brian) and race, and let the result speak for itself...................
I ain't madatcha. Nothing but love for ya. :D
Thanks Eddie. I learn a lot from you about Nelson towing behind you for a few laps after you passed me this year! Hope to learn (or is it more like stealing ;D) more from you next year!
QuoteH, thanks for listening as it seems that you are the only one who isn't biased toward anything nor judging me from any prior experience or how others feel about me and did read what I am trying to say. I know I suck at expressing myself, but thought that I am at least clear with my points...........
So I got it right, eh? "Well, Don Pardo, what does the H-man win?" ;D
Then again, maybe I should be a bit worried about this ability to understand you Sunny :P ;)
i'm not mad at anybody either....just wanted to stop what i thought was a unreasonable excuse.
btw...not trying to kick a dead horse...but....
what is the horsepower of:
fzr400?
sv650?
i know:
gsxr600 is around 105
gsxr1000 is around 140
Well, I'm mad at everybody. Kill my landlord, kill my landlord. C-I-L-L, kill my landlord.
Hmmm... :-Xmaybe the average age of the folks on this board is too young to remember Eddie Murphy on SNL? :-/
I better watch what I write ;)
Quotewhat is the horsepower of:
fzr400?
sv650?
Would that be a European SV or an American SV? ;) ;D
Quotebtw...not trying to kick a dead horse...but....
what is the horsepower of:
fzr400?
sv650?
i know:
gsxr600 is around 105
gsxr1000 is around 140
Stock FZR400: 59HP and ~24 ft.lb torque
Stock SV650: ~70HP and ~45 ft.lb torque (wow!!!!!)
Stock RVF400: 53HP and ~25 ft.lb torque (HP is down from 59 as the earlier 400's due to new Japanese gentlemen agreement)
In stock trim, all three weight about the same at 400 lb range.
Aaron's FZR400 is 1 or 2 mm overbored, so I am not sure where that puts him.
QuoteStock FZR400: 59HP and ~24 ft.lb torque
Stock SV650: ~70HP and ~45 ft.lb torque (wow!!!!!)
Stock RVF400: 53HP and ~25 ft.lb torque (HP is down from 59 as the earlier 400's due to new Japanese gentlemen agreement)
In stock trim, all three weight about the same at 400 lb range.
Aaron's FZR400 is 1 or 2 mm overbored, so I am not sure where that puts him.
it appears to me that the sv is only 18% more powerful than the 400.
i have been racing against 1000's that are 33% more powerful than my 600 and it has not been noticable.
quityerbitchin, save your money, and race the 400.
;D ;D
Quotequit yer bitchin
:-X ;D ;D
Gotta love that auto censor ::) It still makes me laugh.
Brian, I am not going to say anything about the big difference of torque nor how much advantage that would translate to on the track, and that most SV650s I raced with is far beyond the stock rating (for example, http://www.racemotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=ccsclass;action=display;num=1098212492), nor how at some particular tracks that additional HP/torque beyond a certain amount doesn't really help lap time because I know you are fully aware of them (hence why many race 600 or 750 against 1000 in some track and/or in endurance race; of course, 600/750 handles slightly better too). ::)
As I said before, I am going to just leave this discussion and admit that it's all me being slow, and will let my improvement speak for itself next year. ;)
Quoteanother example. i did a lot of trackdays on my totally stock '00 zx9r....my times on my '02 gsxr600 track bike were almost identical. talk about a difference in bikes and power!!!
Just realized who started this thread. :) Hey Brian!
Hey, was that you on the black 9 last year at Grattan and Gingerman. That was about the fastest I've seen a 9 go. :)
Sorry I missed Gingerman. The calendar is almost ready.
QuoteJust realized who started this thread. :) Hey Brian!
Hey, was that you on the black 9 last year at Grattan and Gingerman. That was about the fastest I've seen a 9 go. :)
Sorry I missed Gingerman. The calendar is almost ready.
is this the famed jack beaudry?!?! photographer-extraordinaire?!?!? who's glorious work is at sliderphoto.com ? (shameless plug for ya). you sure get around.
yup. that was me abusing the crap outta the 9r (it was actually dark purple, but it did look black). i think i got it into the low 1'27s but that was asking alot from a heavy bike, stock suspension, and street tires (208zr)....its just not competitive yaknow and i think i would have much better results....hey sunny! get off my keyboard...!
seriously though, looking forward to the calendar.
QuoteBrian, I am not going to say anything about the big difference of torque nor how much advantage that would translate to on the track, and that most SV650s I raced with is far beyond the stock rating (for example, http://www.racemotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=ccsclass;action=display;num=1098212492), nor how at some particular tracks that additional HP/torque beyond a certain amount doesn't really help lap time because I know you are fully aware of them (hence why many race 600 or 750 against 1000 in some track and/or in endurance race; of course, 600/750 handles slightly better too). ::)
As I said before, I am going to just leave this discussion and admit that it's all me being slow, and will let my improvement speak for itself next year. ;)
i'm sorry, sunny. did you just say that its the rider that is the problem and that you are going to drop it?
i get so confused cause you said that right after you said it is the torque that's the problem and after you didn't drop it.
I give up Brian. I don't know if you are joking or seriously trying to put me down any more............ Say/do what you want, I'm gonna just ride............... ;)
QuoteI give up Brian. I don't know if you are joking or seriously trying to put me down any more............ Say/do what you want, I'm gonna just ride............... ;)
I am not joking...you are a whinner.....really.. :'(
Quoteyup. that was me abusing the crap outta the 9r (it was actually dark purple, but it did look black). i think i got it into the low 1'27s but that was asking alot from a heavy bike, stock suspension, and street tires (208zr)....its just not competitive yaknow and i think i would have much better results....hey sunny! get off my keyboard...!
seriously though, looking forward to the calendar.
Funny, I didn't put it together until you mentioned running a 9. Now it makes sense. I don't know names and faces, bikes are another matter. :)