We at Sportbike Track Time have been around this sport for quite some time and sadly we had our first encounter with a thief....
Oh ya, we've had a check or two go BOING! And a VISA card or two declined after the fact BUT the riders ALWAYS made good. Always. That's because we are all good people.
RYAN McGAULEY of ANN ARBOR, MICHIGAN stole in excess of $1,000 worth of merchandise from us at a track event on August 15th at Grattan Michigan.
Items taken include a set of 1800/1200 Slicks and an Ultra Lap Time Full-Kit. He took them, said "I'll be right back to pay" and then hauled ass. Sad thing is he's well-off and has the money to pay.
We have called him multiple times with no reply and two letters have elicited no response.
Does anyone know if the Police take this stuff seriously, it's over a grand and that's a felony I beleive. On of our witnesses is a Police Officer from a local township. Lawyers out there???
Advice......... comments
Shoplifting and theft from a business are taken seriously because businesses pay big taxes.
Always get a police report.
If he was at the track, you've got his signature on a waiver proving he was there. You've apparently also got ID and a solid witness.
Hope that helps.
(P.S. Love those TyrSox I got - BOUGHT - from you!)
Monte, good to hear this, in a way.
I've ran into times where I had problems with some of my customers not taking care of some of their bills...then I find out that they are doing the same with other vendors.
Is he a racer?
Usually the community will help too...
Any info that you can help us with is worth trying.
Did you get the police report?
So have the police issued a warrant for him yet? Thats BS when people pull that crap. >:(
It might have to be over $1500 to be a felony though. I think it depends on the state.
Sorry to hear about this. 'Among the living' is no place for a thief.
Assuming he is a racer (I don't know this person), one thing might be effective...
Would sanctioning bodies put him on a 'watch' so that if he attempts to participate in or attend an event, he can be cornered for the cost?
I agree - always get a police report as immediately as possible. Depending on departmental policy and jurisdiction, they may or may not issue a warrant for his arrest. I'd stay on top of the work you've done so far. Consider also that if the incident occured in one place, you do business in another place, and he lives in another place; the pain in the ask factor involved in getting him canned may be more than it's worth.
Do you have business insurance that covers such things? Would a claim justify a rate increase?
Consider a rotation of decoy shoppers / security staff at these things. These people look like browsing shoppers but are actually a security staff that is usually quite effective in catching jacknuts like this. They rotate so a professional lifter is less likely to recognize the same people there all the time. Also, a stead-fast policy of 'buy before you fly' might help as well as a new lay-out to your space that requires customers to throttle through a 'check-point' to exit.
If all else fails, pimp his gf and push her off the back of a bike on the freeway - or beat die Scheiße out of him and offer the universal 'he fell' explanation when asked by the men in blue ...
A guy at a dealership where he was getting an oil change on his R1 just saw this post, called me and handed the phone to him!!!!
Payment has been promised..........
Monte,
I'd call the District Attorney's offices in Kent Co (Grattan) and in Washtenaw Co (Ann Arbor) to find out what your options are under Michigan law.
Hopefully, we can shame this guy into doing what's right.
P.S. -I was at Grattan on that Monday for the LED - it was a great event!
QuoteA guy at a dealership where he was getting an oil change on his R1 just saw this post, called me and handed the phone to him!!!!
Payment has been promised..........
now that's what I call "the long arm of the bbs"
pretty cool! and it must have been embarassing as hell for him.
good for you!!!!
Deeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!!!!!
What an awesome snag!
PLEASE let us know if the promise of payment is kept.
This'll make for GREAT embarrasment on a PA system somewhere ... "listen for it soon at a racetrack near you!" (Some restrictions apply. Employees and their families of Clear Channel Communications not eligable. Void where prohibited.)
I'd have that dude hold his R1 until payment had been received and he has been prosecuted for shoplifting. Even if he now agrees to pay, he still broke the law.
(In FL ) any theft over $500 value is grand theft.. yes, a felony. I would surely have the DA notified to have his ass arrested.
Most of the time this not dealt with as a criminal matter. It is a non-payment issue. It becomes a civil argument rather than a criminal one. I believe your local attorney general will tell you the same thing.
QuoteMost of the time this not dealt with as a criminal matter. It is a non-payment issue. It becomes a civil argument rather than a criminal one. I believe your local attorney general will tell you the same thing.
kind of a grey area.. he picked up the items, then walked off saying hed be right back. Could be viewed as a theft..? The would not have allowed him to walk off with the items if he said he was not comming back..
Having a Police Officer as a witness didn't hurt...
I am a lawyer and most likely (dependant on the circumstances), this would be considered theft by deception which is considered much worse than felony grand theft. If I were you I would file a report and pressure the authorities in order to get them to follow through.
QuoteI am a lawyer and most likely (dependant on the circumstances), this would be considered theft by deception which is considered much worse than felony grand theft. If I were you I would file a report and pressure the authorities in order to get them to follow through.
Thank you for your opinion. I will follow through on your advice. If he pays can I unilaterally drop teh charges?
QuoteThank you for your opinion. I will follow through on your advice. If he pays can I unilaterally drop teh charges?
Technically, No. The discretion to charge a criminal is for the District Attorney, but the DA will not proceed with a case without witness cooperation or sufficient evidence to sustain a claim. That means that if you refuse to cooperate then they wont continue with the case...even if he has already been "charged". (This is why Kobe Bryant's case was dropped after Kate Katlyn refused to testify)
QuoteI am a lawyer
Hence, the name....
;D :-*
Don't tell me you work for Dewey, Chetum, and Howe. 8)
QuoteHence, the name....
;D :-*
Don't tell me you work for Dewey, Chetum, and Howe. 8)
I interned there, but I actually work for Screwem, Rippem, and Gouge ;)
my .02
first of all, does anyone know this person?
Does this person have a history of being shady?
I only ask because I had a friend in a similar situation...similar but not the same by any means,
and he was in an accident the very day he made a large purchase with a check. He was on his way to the bank(to transfer funds in order not to bounce the check), when all hell broke loose. He was not killed but detained without the availability to contact
his loved ones for a 48 hour period.(He was detained into a psychiatric institute for 23 days) during the holiday season no less!
When he was finally able to acquisition his cell phone
/voice mail, he was then able to explain to bill seekers his situation. This sort of thing does happen.
I know some of us racers are sketchy, but this could
be an ironious if not extremely rare event. I hope it is anyway.
BTW, my friend who also races, had a severe allergic reaction to Prednizone which affected his central nervous system causing him to believe that he could flush himself down the toilette! LOL!!! I know this is off the point to some degree, but you should have read that police report! He was trying to catch Bruce
Lee who'm he thought was a snow man! Now I am really off on a tangent, but man was it funny reading about the sheriff's deputy who had to stop my buddy from getting his foot caught in the toilette of the Hennepin County Jail. Unbelievable!
I hope everything works out....for everyone.
30.
I would agree with Lil-Thorny here. Communication is absolutely key, and mistakes do happen. Let's not lynch anyone before it is really time to...
Greg, actually it is only a value of $300 to qualify for Felony Grand Theft.....FYI
QuoteGreg, actually it is only a value of $300 to qualify for Felony Grand Theft.....FYI
ah HA! good to know.. ;)
Quotemy .02
first of all, does anyone know this person?
Does this person have a history of being shady?
I only ask because I had a friend in a similar situation...similar but not the same by any means,
and he was in an accident the very day he made a large purchase with a check. He was on his way to the bank(to transfer funds in order not to bounce the check), when all hell broke loose. He was not killed but detained without the availability to contact
his loved ones for a 48 hour period.(He was detained into a psychiatric institute for 23 days) during the holiday season no less!
When he was finally able to acquisition his cell phone
/voice mail, he was then able to explain to bill seekers his situation. This sort of thing does happen.
I know some of us racers are sketchy, but this could
be an ironious if not extremely rare event. I hope it is anyway.
BTW, my friend who also races, had a severe allergic reaction to Prednizone which affected his central nervous system causing him to believe that he could flush himself down the toilette! LOL!!! I know this is off the point to some degree, but you should have read that police report! He was trying to catch Bruce
Lee who'm he thought was a snow man! Now I am really off on a tangent, but man was it funny reading about the sheriff's deputy who had to stop my buddy from getting his foot caught in the toilette of the Hennepin County Jail. Unbelievable!
I hope everything works out....for everyone.
30.
Read the ENTIRE thread and see if you really wanted to ask that question..... Apprantly he was/is well enogh to ride his R1 into a dealership yestrday... ::)
This guy wasn't out looking for Batman or pink dogs with Christina Agulara's head on them.....
I would write it off, wish I would have when someone screwed me out of $1500.00. It's not worth the hassle, time and money. It seems court rulings, criminal and civil me nothing anymore.
Strangest thing was the scumbag that screwed me is a wealthy real estate developer.
Most times, (But not ALWAYS!) the broke dude is just so glad you helped him out that he'll sell his liver to get you paid. Besides, If he ever needs help from you again, (highly likely!) he'll want you to be his friend, not his enemy. Notice also that the broke dudes are the first ones to offer their labor as help if YOU get in a bind...
The rich dudes, from my experience, are sometimes more willing to screw you. Maybe they feel like they can buy and sell you. I think it gives them a feeling of power.
Disclaimer: I'm not talking about anyone, nor do I mean anything. In fact, forget I said anything!
Read the ENTIRE thread and see if you really wanted to ask that question..... Apprantly he was/is well enogh to ride his R1 into a dealership yestrday... ::)
This guy wasn't out looking for Batman or pink dogs with Christina Agulara's head on them.....
Ummm.....
then no, string him up!
30.
Well the day that he promised us a check has come and gone.
Should I pu7blish Ryan's address and phone numbers so you all can tell him what a nice guy he is?
QuoteWell the day that he promised us a check has come and gone.
Should I pu7blish Ryan's address and phone numbers so you all can tell him what a nice guy he is?
No nows the time to get mean. File the charges. You gave him plenty of chances and he blew it.
If he shows at Gingerman, I'd be happy to do a little "One on One" Track coaching with him...
Oh, sorry bud. That's what we racers call "Showing someone a wheel."
;D
Y'all know me better than that, right...?
QuoteWell the day that he promised us a check has come and gone.
Should I pu7blish Ryan's address and phone numbers so you all can tell him what a nice guy he is?
Monte, you'd actually take a check from him? I'd get a CC immediately.
Got a police report yet? I believe that many businesses post names and addresses of bad check writers...
I see no reason why to not do the same.
If he shows up a Blackhawk this weekend for practice or the Sport Rider Day, who knows who will be next... So, I only see this as a service to the motorcycling community.
PUT IT UP!
Monte,
This is what I think you should do..
1. File a mechanics lein on his bike for the amount of money he owes you, plus some. All you need is his VIN number and someone should have it on record somewhere. You can do a search thru the Secretary of State if need be with just his name and address.
2. File a official report with the STATE police, not the locals. The state cops are rotten bastards, atleast most of them, and they'll persue it and have the capability to knock on his door wherever he lives, not just issue a warrant and make phone calls.
3. Ban him from your track days until it's paid in full.
Or, worse case scecnerio, gimme his address via email.... and then don't ask no quesitons ;D
But, mechanics lien on his bike is probably the cheapest legal way to make sure you get your money, or a R1 for $1500.00 he owes you. Doesn't cost anything but like $30.00 and a trip to the Secretary of State. I believe, but not sure, that once a mechanics or garage keepers lein is filed on a VIN, the owner has 90 days to pay up, or you can repo his bike. Not sure though. visit: www.michigan.gov/sos for more info. They have a toll free number you can call on their somewhere and ask.
FYI: I use to work at a car stereo shop back after highschool, and some buy bought a bunch of equipment and paid by check. The check bounced, and no repayment, so the shop put a lien on his car, and they repo'd it after like 90 days. He ended paying it, plus a bunch of penalties and extra money for towing ect., this is how I know. We didn't install the equipment either.
Dan
Um....Dawn said that you weren't on this forum any longer. What gives? ???
I'm not banned. I decided not to post anymore, but though I'd tell Monte my opinion.
QuoteI'm not banned. I decided not to post anymore, but though I'd tell Monte my opinion.
And Dans info was helpful so don't bust his balls, ok?
QuoteAnd Dans info was helpful...
Maybe...but...
A Mechanic's Lien, which varies from state to state, is generally only attached to
real property where improvements have been made, i.e. real estate construction. A mechanic's lien is not attached to
personal property such as a car or motorcycle.
There is (or used to be) a lien called a garageman's lien that could be attached to an auto to force payment for improvements, repairs to a car. This may have been used in Corner's example, but in your case it sounded like he took the items outright. If you mounted the tires and lap timer it might be applicable.
Regardless, it appears the police have probable cause for theft and you know who he is and, presumably, can find out where he is, so they could just snatch him up. If they can't find him, they can have a judge sign an arrest warrant. I realize that doesn't guarantee payment to you though.
I'm sorry I'm not a lawyer...well, no, I'm not...but I'm sorry I can't help with bonafide legal advice! I hope someone shows up here who can and I sincerely hope you get paid soon.
P.S. Thanks for the gloves in the parking lot at Ducati/Saukville, WI a few weeks ago.
Maybe I am missing something, but this seems pretty easy. The guy stole something from you. Plain and simple. How is this any different than shoplifting in a store? They don't give you a chance to pay once you walk out the door.
Quit messing around and prosecute him.
Also maybe contact all the other trackday groups, race series and maybe start posting it up on sportbike sites. Wouldnt it be sad if he got blackballed from even going on a track again? ;D
Monte,
Check your PMs.
QuoteMaybe...but...
A Mechanic's Lien, which varies from state to state, is generally only attached to real property where improvements have been made, i.e. real estate construction. A mechanic's lien is not attached to personal property such as a car or motorcycle.
There is (or used to be) a lien called a garageman's lien that could be attached to an auto to force payment for improvements, repairs to a car.
The lien is basically the right to retain posession of the vehicle until the bill is paid, by Mass. law. Once it leaves your posession you're SOL. If the guy stiffed you on a previous bill and returns for more work, you can't even hold the car if he pays the bill for the new repairs in full.
My God. I can't belive you all are still yacking about this.
STT-Guy. Do some research on your state/federal/local websites and call these people to understand the laws. Don't rely on what people write in forums for advice as it can and will put you down the wrong road.
Complaining on a forum isn't going to get your money back. It served the purpose in letting everyone know this guy stole from you, but now you need to do something to get your money back. That's where the local/state/feds come in...
Just my $.02.
QuoteMaybe I am missing something, but this seems pretty easy. The guy stole something from you. Plain and simple. How is this any different than shoplifting in a store? They don't give you a chance to pay once you walk out the door.
Quit messing around and prosecute him.
I'm with R1owner here.....why are you still dealing with this?? ???
Just screw this POS and sick the popo on his ass. It's really that simple ya know.
njracer
I don't post here much, but I'm a former racer (1970s and 1980s) who made the mistake of going to law school. I'm helping STT to prosecute the case against this fellow. Here's what I posted on the WERA oard earlier today:
UPDATE: I am in the process of securing all the pertainent info about the crime in question from Monte, who is now on the road running the Grattan trackday. That info will be forwarded to the District Attorneys' Office with carbon copies to either the City of Belding PD and/or the Michigan State Police.
I hope that we have a warrant issued within the next few days.
BTW, it seems like the State Police will be able to effectuate the warrant more readily than the City PD (b/c the perpetrator lives in Ann Arbor), so we'll most likely ask the D.A. to get them involved.
I'll post here once he is arrested.
By the way, the mechanic's lien law in Michigan requires that a shop be in actual possession of the vehicle in order to apply for a lien. Also, this law applies only to a registered repair shop.
So Monte has two options: 1) press criminal charges and 2) file a civil action.
#1 will be done soon and is in process.
#2 will happen shortly.
Hopefully the State Police will handle it all. They are a bunch of ruthless bastards. As soon as the warrant is signed, they'll have cars on the way to go get hit. If the "locals" handle it, he more than likely won't get picked up till he has his license plate or DL ran by a cop, and their is a warrant in the LIEN network. State cops in MI are no joke. Can't get out of crap with them. All the speeding tickets I've ever had have been from State Troopers. Locals just pull you over so it looks like they give a damn to the dispatchers. ;D If the locals take it, someone call the Ann Arbor Police, and let them know he has a warrant. This way they will "go out of the way" to go pick him up. Otherwise, gotta wait till he gets pulled over or something.
and make sure that the magistrate or judge that signs the warrant, knows that he's been "ducking" everyone, so he doesn't get a low bond, or a personal bond. If all he has to do is sign his name to get out of jail, that didn't do nothing. I'd like to see a $10K "cash" bond set, so someone's gotta get $10K in cash or collateral to get him out. Then, just make sure he gets picked up on a Friday so he spends the weekend at a minimum in jail. Hopefully the set a real high cash bond so he has a hard time getting out. Michigan Court System will hold him in there for a while if he can't bail out because the system is all backed up. ;D I got a speeding ticket 2 monts ago and my court date to fight it isn't until mid December.
wait, no let him get pulled over instead of calling the cops and telling them he has a warrant. This way he goes to jail unexpectedly, and his car gets impounded. Then, if he doesn't get his car within 30 days, the city will auction it off. Then, let him get pulled over in Detroit. He won't have anything left of his car by the time he gets out of jail to get it out of the impound lot.
Damn, I'm a rotten bastard :P
Dan,
I knew you couldn't stay away :P
Benj.
QuoteDan,
I knew you couldn't stay away :P
Benj.
Took me 2 days to see this post didn't it. ;) Just say you miss me and leave it at that. ;D I'm out.
Dan
QuoteMaybe I am missing something, but this seems pretty easy. The guy stole something from you. Plain and simple. How is this any different than shoplifting in a store? They don't give you a chance to pay once you walk out the door.
Quit messing around and prosecute him.
I'm with you! A thief is a peice of crap in my book. I say face to face action is needed and kick his MF monkey ass. Stop BSing about the issue. If you want your money then do something or move on.
Just a quick update! Mr. McGauley had promised to bring cash money to me for Monte by the end of the day Friday the 17th ::) Well I waited all day and nothing! No call no show! We are talking about a 20 minute drive to be able to square up and put a stop to this whole mess.Now all he's done is piss of someone else that was doing him a favor by being directly available to pey his debt. Won't happen again so I hope he gets what he deserves! Burn him Monte!
UPDATE!!!
Jig Moore Picked up a check for us and we'll deposit it.
Thanks Jig!
Ryan says that it's all my fault that he didn't pay us.
Mmmmmm let's see.
We left him over 15 messages on his VM without EVER receiving a call prior to placing this post.
We sent him 2 letters with SASE's inside but according to him the checks got lost in the mail anyway.....
He was "going right over" to Kielth Thompsons to deliver cash..... Keith wasted an entire day and didn't event get a phone call.
Isn't it funny that it took very public humiliation and LAW ENFORCEMENT to get action out of this guy?
We will contact the Michigan State Police in writing and let them know we have received payment after the check has cleared.
In the mean time, drive carefully Ryan and hope the next knock at the door isn't Johnny (or Joanne) Law.
We don't dislike YOU Ryan, but we dislike your actions and lack of responsability. Live and learn and don't make the same mistake(s) again.
Thanks to everyone on the BBS for your support and help. Rodger Doyle was a huge help, thanks Rodger!
__________________
ML
SportbikeTrackTime.com
I sure hope that check clears...doesn't sound like the chances are that great...but we can only hope!
I sure hope you at STT don't EVER allow him admittance to future events. This is the kind of guy that would sue you if he ever hurt himself doing something stupid at a track day!
Correct,
He is indeed banned.
Sweeeet! ;D
QuoteCorrect,
He is indeed banned.
Awwwww! And I was SO looking forward to working with him....
Hey K3 are you going to be at the Oct 18th day??
Monte, hopefully the check was good and cleared already. ;)
QuoteHey K3 are you going to be at the Oct 18th day??
Nope. My plan is to ride three STT days at Gingerman this weekend, then call it a year. This last weekend should use up what's left of my tire and money stash.