Been interviewing for a job over the last few weeks (which I got an offer for yesterday - YAY!)
Whenever I was asked (by whomever was interviewing me) if "there is anything we should know, that is important, that we should take into consideration over hiring you" - is that I always responded with my racing. I'd tell them I race, and that during the summer months, my schedule can sometimes get a little hectic, etc, and that I need to know ahead of time that getting an occasional Thurs-Fri off to go race is okay.
When my soon-to-be-manager asked me that question, and he learned I race, he became completely enthralled in the fact that I race. Couldn't get enough of it.
When the HR person got my response, she noted that it was a little odd that I bring up vacation time in an interview. Which, I guess I can agree... you definitely don't want to sound like all you care about is getting time off. But - it's pretty crucial to me I get my time off for this specific purpose, so I think it's important to bring it up. I mean, it's not like I'm taking the day off to go sit on a beach.
Reason I do this? Well, at my last job (Motorola) - they pretty much HATED that I raced, and did anything they could to get in the way of it. Schedule me for weekend business trips, flat-out deny vacation time, etc. So I want to make sure that A) they are cool with this, and B) that, one month into the job, if I request a day off, it doesn't come as this "big surprise". After I explained this to HR (both for my current job, and my upcoming job) they seemed to actually appreciate that I brought it up.
Has anybody else done this? Has it ever backfired on you?
Why do you think it's necessary for your employer to know that you need time off because you race a motorcycle. What's the difference between taking time off to race or taking time off to work on your house? Either way you're not present at the company. I'm assuming that you have a set number of vacation days and you can take them as long as you give enough notice. My company could care less what the reason is as long as they get the notice.
I received a letter at home from the CEO of my company, on company letterhead, basically asking me to quit racing. Many companies these days are self insured, including mine. This means that the company pays out of pocket for each medical claim on persons insurance. The insurance company only kicks in with the claims reach a certain amount; in my case I think it is around $30,000 per person/year. The company is just trying to reduce it health care costs and I don't think it is any different than wellness programs, and stop smoking campaigns. The letter I received never mentioned health care, it was more like "your a valuable employee..., you're involved in a dangerous sport... and you should think about your family".
My opinion is that when you interview for a job you should at most mention you are a motorcycle enthusiast and you should negotiate vacation time if you don't think they have offered you enough (like 3 weeks vs. two weeks per year). DON'T ask for time off in an interview, DON'T mention dangerous activities you are involved in and DON'T TALK ABOUT RACING because if it is between you and another person with the same experience and aptitude, they will hire the person they feel will cost them the least in the long run and that usually is not a racer. The probability that mentioning you are a racer will help you is very, very low.
Just my $.02
BTW, the only time I ever mentioned I was a racer was when I interviewed with HONDA R&D of America for a On-Road Test Engineer and they still asked me if I planned to continue road racing if I accepted their job offer. This job entailed testing sport bikes, cruisers and some off-road vehicles every day usually at one of three locations, either the Honda Proving Grounds, Willow Springs or their local test circut in Torrance.
They liked the fact that I was a racer, but they would have preferred that once I started working for them that I quit racing as to reduce my chances of getting injured.
Can you believe I did not accept their job offer ???
I compared my situation to being a gynocologist, what happens when you have to look at it every day! Do you lose interest? ;D
LOL, don't ask don't tell.
Ok, since I've done this forever...
Employers knew.
Might work for Parts Unlimited now? Don't know. Have to work out some details. Offers are being accepted...
I worked for a John Deere lawn and garden dealership for six years...I worked part time to add some cash to my pocket, and then they asked me to work full time. They already knew.
Worked for the trailer place for almost four years...I needed a bigger trailer for racing...and I was willing to work there to get it...so...
When I was full time AMA Pro racing in 1993, I was a contract courrier for a small place...when I needed to take off time, I hired one of the guys that unloads/loads from the longer distance ship trucks.
As for dangerous...my good friend that street rides has spent way more time being worked on and rehabilitated than I ever have. Does racing keep you out of more trouble?
The flip side is that my neighbor across the street, really great family, he's a forman of a shop... There's a guy there that does trials and some MX. He's breakin' his legs and generally being a bad worker...what's my neighbor to think?
Interviewing for my current position, I was asked what I did to relax. I told them I roadraced motorcycles. They laughed.
I explained that when you're doing 150, dragging a knee, sliding the front and the rear tire at the same time, what else do you have to think about? They stopped laughing...
I've never been hassled about racing or vacation for it. But I've ALWAYS been there for the company (i.e., taking calls at the track, or skipping a weekend or practice day as necessary).
Golf, tennis, racquetball, basketball, softball - ALL have injuries associated with them. I don't see racing as ANY different. I would be willing to guess that statistically speaking, the dollar amount of injuries from the most common sports easily exceeds that of MC racing.
I have had to deal with this, since I'm actively job hunting. It usually comes up in the HR question about hobbies.
Quote"motorcycle enthusiast"
I like that. I'll use that instead of motorcycle racer. Sounds more laid back and mature - but yet is still the truth.
I only started racing last year but did get a new job within the same company this February. They know and are just glad to see me on Monday mornings after a race weekend. If I were interviewing for a job elsewhere, I probably wouldn't mention it in an interview unless asked directly. It's really not the company's business what I do on "my time". I can do (and have done) my job with my dominant hand in a brace and without putting weight on my heel for 3 months. But that was from street riding... I actually go to the doctor much much less than a lot of coworkers. One of the people here just got clobbered by a tree in his own yard this weekend; maybe they SHOULD ask Kwak if he's taking off to work around the house. ;)
I have been with Chrysler for over 25 years. I dont think it matters at this point. But they know never the less. My coworkers think I am going through a mid life crises! :o ;)
What they probably really meant by that question was whether there were any employment terminations, untruths on your resume and/or criminal incidents in your past that you did not disclose. They have the right to terminate you at will for any lack of disclosure of those things.
With regard to management's attitude to racing, the problem really is that most non-racers think we're nuts and assign a higher level of risk than might be justified (although there are those who tend to crash out frequently).
I think Brian W. has the bigger problem. I understand the issue if your company is self insured but where do they draw the line? Do they also identify and send similar letters to those who smoke or drink too much or are overweight?
Well, I could see it if someone were an overweight, smoking, alcoholic racer.... ;D
QuoteWell, I could see it if someone were an overweight, smoking, alcoholic racer.... ;D
Are you referring to someone we know..... ;)
My company is self-insured and will not cover any accidents during a sanctioned race. So I guess I will drive myself to the hospital if I need to. :)
I agree that everyone thinks we are nutz. I was just told in the breakroom the other day, "I think you need to see a psychiatrist" as they were talking about my racing. I said, "Why, so I can learn how to get faster?" The guy across the table just spent 2 months in the hospital from his street accident.. :-/
My mother said I was crazy and had a death wish, before. She recently admitted that she had been watching some racing on Speed and agreed with my brothers that I am probably safer on the track than on the street. (Of course, she lives in Houston and they drive like idiots.)
QuoteAre you referring to someone we know..... ;)
Let's see...actually, no, but you know more people at the track than I do. :)
QuoteLet's see...actually, no, but you know more people at the track than I do. :)
;D
We'll see if he'll chime in....
;)
Quote;D
We'll see if he'll chime in....
;)
Yeah, where is K3?
;D ;D
I discovered my susceptibility to adrenaline addiction about a year after starting my current job.
In my cubicle, nestled among the pictures of my family and pets, I've got 3 racing-related plaques, track maps, some die-cast models, photos and (of course) Jack's calendar.
I was rather apprehensive the day I had to call my boss after getting my shoulder x-rayed to tell her WHY I was calling in sick for Monday - but she and all of my coworkers think that what I do is "neat".
It's not information that I would volunteer in the course of a job interview... and it's questionable to me if probing an applicant's personal interests is even appropriate from an HR perspective. Somewhere in there is a line that should not be crossed.
I think many companies are self insured. It is often cheaper in the long run. I was not happy when I got the letter. If it was a "friendly" letter from my CEO (who I know very well) then he should not have printed it on company letterhead.
Regardless, I agree that what I choose to do on my time is my business. I know several people in my company, including the CEO, are private pilots and SCUBA divers. I think those hobbies can be considered just as "dangerous" as motorcycle racing. I just think in a job interview it might be better to keep the fact that you are a licensed motorcycle racer to yourself, at least until after they hire you and you have been there a few weeks.
QuoteMy company is self-insured and will not cover any accidents during a sanctioned race
The AMA was fighting some legislation that passes a few years ago that made it LEGAL for insurance companies to deny claims for injuries due to motorcycle racing and other hobbies. When I broke my collarbone I told the doctor I got in a mountain bike accident since even leisure off-road motorcycle riding could be declined.
I told my current employer about my need for time off. Being a company that was formed soley to run a race team, they understood, and have been awesome about the time off I've needed. 8)
The other company I work for is my own, so no probs there.
QuoteOne of the people here just got clobbered by a tree in his own yard this weekend; maybe they SHOULD ask Kwak if he's taking off to work around the house. ;)
I live in the hood.. there aint no trees here sucka. Word
Quotethere aint no trees here sucka
Not anymore, apparently! ;D :P
Where Roger works he and Rhiannon were the ENTIRE paint department for many years. It must have made th boss nuts to know they both raced. He even came to a race once, and I think he understood that it's alot less dangerous than street riding. Of course they both rode their bikes approx 30 miles each way to work. :o ;) ;D
When I got my 1st street bike I kept it a total secret at work. Late that 1st year the owner saw me riding on the street and confronted me ASAP the next day at work. He chewed me out for about a 1/2 hour about riding a motorcycle and the fact that he had a vested interest in me. When I asked how, he said that it cost him about $100,000 for the job training I had recieved up to that point and that it would be quite a financial loss to him if I got injured or killed. Of course the mention of anything other than the almighty dollar was never said (no care of the actual fact of me being injured or killed). I continued to ride motorcycles but kept it very low profile at work.
Moving ahead 5 years after that I got involved in roadracing with CCS. I knew that with my bosses attitude that this would be an absolute no-no. I kept this quiet at work for a few years until someone saw me towing my race bike on my open trailer and told everyone at work. I was never confronted by management about this, but from what I heard they were furious. To this day the upper management will not acknowledge in anyway that they are aware of me racing (I believe partially for insurance purposes). If they see me wearing a racing shirt or see a calender or something they just walk the other way and complain to others how I am playing Russian Roulette with company assests (namely my skills/knowledge of my job). Even when I try my best to not talk about racing at work, so many people still come up and talk to me about it while I am working that it ticks off the management, yet I am still working while talking.
With 4 weeks vacation time that I can take in any way, shape, or form (as long as I give notice) they can't really deny me taking days off - unless someone else is gone and I have to cover for a hot job. I just wish I could go to work and do my job and not be discriminated against because of how I live my life outside of work, total BS! >:(
QuoteWhere Roger works he and Rhiannon were the ENTIRE paint department for many years. It must have made th boss nuts to know they both raced. He even came to a race once, and I think he understood that it's alot less dangerous than street riding. Of course they both rode their bikes approx 30 miles each way to work. :o ;) ;D
Is Roger's bike the red/white/blue Honda I sometimes see parked out front?
My race bikes both have our company logo on them.
I guess they know I race (especially since I bring a bike to the office in the pick up around once a month).
We all know the risks of racing, just as I know the risks of driving at 10pm on a Tuesday night from Jacksonville, Fl back to Miami so I can meet with clients at 9am the next morning.
I work hard, I race and my company is a sponsor.
:)
QuoteIs Roger's bike the red/white/blue Honda I sometimes see parked out front?
Yup. '93 F2. And he has less than 1400 miles to go before that baby turns 50K miles. ;D Stop in and say "hi" sometime. They'll probably give you a tour.
QuoteYup. '93 F2. And he has less than 1400 miles to go before that baby turns 50K miles. ;D Stop in and say "hi" sometime. They'll probably give you a tour.
I'll have to do that some time.
Do Waterfordonians get a deal on a bike?
QuoteWell, I could see it if someone were an overweight, smoking, alcoholic racer.... ;D
Hey! What's with the personal attacks? I thought this was a friendly board?
Oh... Wait. I guess you didn't mention me personally... Never mind. :-[
QuoteI'll have to do that some time.
Do Waterfordonians get a deal on a bike?
You'll have to ask Richard. ::) (ask me about it sometime) ;)
QuoteHey! What's with the personal attacks? I thought this was a friendly board?
Oh... Wait. I guess you didn't mention me personally... Never mind. :-[
You might be overweight, you might even be known to smoke a little, but as far as I know your main addiction is racing. OR maybe you've turned to alcohol to substitue for your speed fix? :o ;D
Damn, give this boy a bike, he's gettin' touchy! ;)
To GSXR RACER MIKE: That totally sucks that you can't talk about it at work. That would really suck if you had a great weekend of racing and had to just sit there and say nothing.
I hate hiding anything and I hate lying. I hope I never get a job where I have to pretend to be someone I'm not.
QuoteYou might be overweight, you might even be known to smoke a little, but as far as I know your main addiction is racing. OR maybe you've turned to alcohol to substitue for your speed fix? :o ;D
Damn, give this boy a bike, he's gettin' touchy! ;)
I was just trying to be funny. I wasn't offended. Not even by Edgar. ::)
Overweight and smoking is my own fault, and not being able to race this year has just made the situation worse. It's like, why should I deny myself a cheeseburger or a smoke when I can't go racing? Yeah, that's wussy. I admit it.
Alchohol is OK sometimes, but nothing could take the place of racing for me. The people, the competition, and mostly the buzz of going through corners fast is the best thing I've ever experienced.
The Hallett trip was a disaster for me. I blew up my car and paid $350 to get it home. I made several hours of phone calls trying to find parts and arrange the ride home. Just got the cell phone bill. All roaming. $350! Now I know what everyone else cries about with their phones. Laure got me a phone that works local at all the Midwest tracks, so I've never seen roaming charges before. I ordered a new $300 distributor for the car, then got it running only to experience an ECU meltdown a few days later. That's $1000 for a car that I have to throw away now.
My solution was to go buy a brand new Hundai Tiburon. I've never bought a new car for myself, but Laura pointed out that my used cars were costing me more that the $350 per month payment, so I caved in and bought new. Now I find out that my first payment is August 13! Man, that's only 14 days after I bought the car! Can they reposess if you're late on the first payment? Oh joy. More financial setbacks to the race budget.
Edgar? Do you need a partner in your Nicaraguan um... import business? I'm a really fast wheelman... But of course you already know that! ;) ;D
Gripe session ended. Sorry for venting.
Quote
Were you speechless? Cat got your tongue? :o ;D
QuoteWhen I got my 1st street bike I kept it a total secret at work. Late that 1st year the owner saw me riding on the street and confronted me ASAP the next day at work. He chewed me out for about a 1/2 hour about riding a motorcycle and the fact that he had a vested interest in me. When I asked how, he said that it cost him about $100,000 for the job training I had recieved up to that point and that it would be quite a financial loss to him if I got injured or killed. Of course the mention of anything other than the almighty dollar was never said (no care of the actual fact of me being injured or killed). I continued to ride motorcycles but kept it very low profile at work.
Moving ahead 5 years after that I got involved in roadracing with CCS. I knew that with my bosses attitude that this would be an absolute no-no. I kept this quiet at work for a few years until someone saw me towing my race bike on my open trailer and told everyone at work. I was never confronted by management about this, but from what I heard they were furious. To this day the upper management will not acknowledge in anyway that they are aware of me racing (I believe partially for insurance purposes). If they see me wearing a racing shirt or see a calender or something they just walk the other way and complain to others how I am playing Russian Roulette with company assests (namely my skills/knowledge of my job). Even when I try my best to not talk about racing at work, so many people still come up and talk to me about it while I am working that it ticks off the management, yet I am still working while talking.
With 4 weeks vacation time that I can take in any way, shape, or form (as long as I give notice) they can't really deny me taking days off - unless someone else is gone and I have to cover for a hot job. I just wish I could go to work and do my job and not be discriminated against because of how I live my life outside of work, total BS! >:(
Wow. I didn't have it THAT bad at my last job - not to the point of getting chewed out for it. They just tried to get in the way of it as much as possible. They would deny vacation requests when they'd learn it was a race weekend, and try to lay the guilt trip on me stating how valuable I was to the team, and that it was silly to do something where I could get hurt.
So when I started looking for a new job, it was a pretty key priority that they accept the fact that I have this life outside of work. I think that most companies, when they give you 2 weeks vacation - they expect you to take it 1-2 weeks at a time. You know, a vacation... go to Hawaii or something. My last job, they'd get upset when I'd try to take my 2 weeks vacation by requesting a thurs/fri off once a month. "What do you mean, you need next thurs/fri off? You just took two days off last month!"
So I had to make sure that everyone was clear ahead of time, and make sure it wasn't going to be a problem. And so far, it's worked out. Both my current employer, and my soon-to-be employer have both expressed their appreciation for me giving them a heads up.
I guess the right company helps too, with the right kind of people. While it hasn't happened yet, several of my co-workers have expressed an interest in coming out to watch me race sometime... and I usually spend a good hour on the Monday following a race weekend giving everyone a recap. That is something that NEVER would have happened at my old job. It's really nice to have the support.
I guess, to me, maybe my racing is more important than most. It's a hobby, sure, but I feel like it's more of a passion of mine. Any kind of racing, I love it (well, except NASCAR.) To me, it's important enough that my job accept the fact that I do it.
MY company knows that I race motorcycles and skateboard. They give me no grief.. they just think I'm retarded. They say be careful cuz if you get hurt or die racing... we'll have to hire another custodial engineer and you know how hard those are to find. Especially one with a master's degree.
Oh, one final gripe. I don't even have a trophy from this year! It's like I don't even exist any more.
Luckily I am generally allowed to do the long weekend vacations without too much resistance, unless as I said someone else is gone, then I just stick to the fact that I reserved the days ahead of time. There have only been a few occasions that I was 'force-ably' requested to be at work. I think that the fact that I have only missed 1 unscheduled day off work because of racing since I started in '96 helps too. I crashed at Road America in '98 during a N.A.S.B. national race weekend and tore my shoulder, but I was back to work on Tuesday.
I am somewhat stuck in my job for the reason that it's in manufacturing and it's the top place in the area. :-/
QuoteOh, one final gripe. I don't even have a trophy from this year! It's like I don't even exist any more.
oooh so many thoughts come to mind here... but i'll be nice and keep quiet. Don't want to kick a brother when he is down, you know.
Regarding my job and racing, they know I race and don't really care (well, I would say that as long as I don't get hurt). They have seen me come in worse shape when I go dirt riding and crash than after any roadrace weekend, so they figure it can't be too bad. They know when I leave and where I am going, the only thing they ask is that I keep a phone and a laptop with me just in case of emergency. If I went looking for a new job, I don't think I would tell them unless they asked. I may mention that I would need an occasional Friday off, but not necessarily the reason why, unless they asked. I wouldn't lie about it though since it could come back and nip you in the butt.
A thought comes to mind,
The person who doesn't even race who gets all sorts of crap for taking off of work is Cindy Singer, our much loved and aweswome Starter.
She's in the nursing feild, with too many years of experience, and she won't take a job unless they understand how important it is for her to be there for every race event. They still give her a hard time.
Props to those who don't race and support the sport by using their vacation time to make it all happen, from crew to corner workers.
wow. I didn't realize how fortunate I was to be able to hand my race schedule to each of my last 3 employers and let them know what days I'd need.
Right now, before every weekend, I send out a reminder to 100+ people in the company letting them know where the race is, and I encourage them to come out.
Then by Tues/Wed, I distribute the race report for the weekend, including giving kudos to those colleagues who come out to watch or help.
Once people have SEEN it, they can better relate and understand the risks. I've only once been pestered by a negative person, and I offered transportation, gate fees, food & entertainment for the weekend if he would come. He declined and never bothered me again.
Another thing I've done is buy 2 copies of faster which are currently both floating around the office somewhere here...
Knowledge is power.
QuoteOnce people have SEEN it, they can better relate and understand the risks.
That's VERY true.
I moved to a different dept earlier this year, so not everyone around me knows about the racing. Some of the reactions are priceless...
Wow. To think that a company would treat and employee like this about an activity they do on their own time. >:( (GSXR RACER MIKE)
Employees ARE people. They have hobbies.
I just can't understand that. If I were an employer, I would think that it would be a plus if my employees had a hobby or passion that they really enjoyed. I dunno, I guess I see it as a more well-rounded person. Seen too many people with no lives outside of their jobs.
That's just frustrating to me. Maybe I understand this better than most because I've been on the employee's side as a racer? Dunno. Either way, when I start employing people, (I already am through contract labor) I certainly wouldnt be that way.
I would expect this out of the military - the whole "you're government property" thing. Oh wait - I AM in the military. :D Of course, it's Guards and not active duty. But they don't care. At least they haven't said anything and I make it clear that I do it.
They won't let me ride a motorcycle on the street without taking the safety class and wearing a helmet, jacket, and gloves... So I can't ride on the road when I'm on orders because I haven't taken that safety class. I wonder if they would accept Super Daves school??? ;D ;D
Yup, Rhiannon's in the military, as we all know, and when she got activated in 2003 they let her finish Daytona before she had to come home. Again, 128th Air Nat'l Guard refueling unit, but it was very cool of them. I think many folks in the military do "dangerous" hobbies. He11, they have a dangerous job description at work most times.
Did you guys see the article in Motorcyclist about the head honcho of the Blue Angels? There used to be a ban on motorcycles for the group but he got rid of the rule. 8)
QuoteYou'll have to ask Richard. ::) (ask me about it sometime) ;)
Are you guys talking about the bicycles and Richard Schwinn?? I used to work at a bike shop that sold a number of them..
-Nick
QuoteAre you guys talking about the bicycles and Richard Schwinn?? I used to work at a bike shop that sold a number of them..
-Nick
Richard who? ???
Yup, THAT Richard. Waterford Precision Cycles. Best paint finishes in the business. (I'm not biased or anything) ;D Pretty nice bikes too. :P
LOL Auto censor strikes again! Spo oner turns into Spooner with the auto censor! ::) :P ;D
Mustn't have any P00 on here!
I don't race anymore but take most of my vacation for race weekends and the Wegman Fund activities.
About ten years after my two year active duty stint with the Army my brother talked me into joining his reserve unit. This also happened to be the same year I started racing with WERA ('82) All was well until the second year when nearly every reserve drill weekend coincided with a race weekend. I made up a phony excuse about an employment hardship ( I had to work those weekends) and they gave me a discharge. They never even checked out the job. ;D
Yep, I blew off the reserves and a cushy retirement check for a few years of racing. ;D
Gordy, you have all of your priorities straight. ;D