Motorcycle Racing Forum

What do you all think of CCS allowing 250GP bikes in Supertwins? Afterall, they are twins.

250's suck. Their annoying.  Lose them on the straights, and boom, right back on your butt in the corners.  No way.   >:(   That's all the HWT's class needs, a bunch of little hornets passing us  ;D

One more class for you to smoke me in LITERALLY! LOL

Could care less personally, I hear where you're coming from though Brian after watching you in the MW races, I would want something else too.

I agree with it.

I agree with the REV.  I spoke with KE at RA I think we are just wasting our time debating the subjest it's not going to happen.

I'm sure it wont happen, but I'd love to see it happen. But I'd like it to jst so I have another class to race, and maybe be competitive in.

the WERA heavyweight twins class allows it, and last year I had some fun battling those big fat pig piece of shit twins.

they are pretty equal on some tracks that are tighter, twistier. but at say Road Atlanta, the big twin can just motor away on the looong straight.

Dan, dont be mad that a $4k, 10 year old TZ250 would come smoking by your idiot ass after spending $30K on some stupid Ducati ::) ::) ::)

Observing the way two strokes and twins are ridden in the GT Lights class , they take such different line through the corners that sometimes it's just scary....

When that happens, the two stroke guys complain about the twins and the twin riders complain about the two strokes.  Then I get to hear it from both sides.  

Dawn   :)

Yea, shlt, why not... I think they should. What are you big bike clowns scared of, besides getting your ego hurt.  :P

Yeah in the SE I would just like some competition, bringem on,  smoke em down.

I don't see it as a problem. I think it would be fun for everyone. It would be no different than LWGP except with RC51s, TLs, and Ducatis. Even if it's a bad formula, it's still gotta be better than racing against 600s.

QuoteEven if it's a bad formula, it's still gotta be better than racing against 600s.

You have a point there....  

(sorry Super Dave   ;))

Dawn  :)

I'd even consider running my 125 in there at Roebling and Jennings.   ;D

QuoteDan, dont be mad that a $4k, 10 year old TZ250 would come smoking by your idiot ass after spending $30K on some stupid Ducati ::) ::) ::)

Nah, it's not the bikes, it's the riders.  I got spanked by a 125 at Grattan.  I hate those things.  I'd leave them in the dust anywhere hard acceleration is needed, but boom, right back on my ass in the corners.  I had one follow me around Grattan one time, and I'd leave him going down the straight like no tomorrow, but by the time turn 2 came around, he was right there again.  Made me realize I need to pick up some more speed in the corners.

Stupid Ducati  ???  Have you ever ridden a 749 or 999?  They handle like a dream.  Best riding bike there is when the chassis is set up correctly.   It's the rider that's the problem.   :(  

Actually, a 250 or 125 two-stroke is the best bike there is when setup correctly.  The handling and cornering ability are simply incredible.

Those aren't bikes. Their ovesided weed wackers with wheels  ;D ;)

What's going on with this rumor that the Ducati 749R will not be allowed to run in supersport?  I heard that somewhere.  That bike with the right rider will hand the entire 600 class it's ass.  118HP at the crank stock.  130HP at the crank with full 54mm exhaust. All the goodies too.  

600 class is still if'y though.   I'd probably pass on the gladiator class  ;D

QuoteActually, a 250 or 125 two-stroke is the best bike there is when setup correctly.  The handling and cornering ability are simply incredible.

WERD on that. I'm finding that out this year.. I thought the Apr 250 was great.. this thing is INCREDIBLE.  I'm still getting use to how hot you can go into turns and how much & how earlier you can use the gas in the turn.

I'm turning 5+ seconds faster on the 125 than I did on the Apr 250, and at the right track (RRR & Jennings) you can keep up with the 600+cc bikes.

a 125 or 250 GP bike is the best handling chassis there is. A 749 or 999 might be "race-derived", but a GP bike comes from the factory as a full out racebike. No speedo, none of this stupid crap you find an a streetbike you have to take off to make a racebike. dont get me wrong I think the 749/999 is a great looking bike, but I woul dnever pay a cent for one unless I was some stupid rich ass guy with no sense.

I've ridden Ducatis, Dan have you ridden a Yammy TZ or Honda RS? I agree the rider makes a good difference, but the bike is simply flat out made for track use in every single way.

take the suspension on your Ducati whatever9, put that on a 240 lb chassis and a power-to-weight ratio closer to a gsxr750. thats what you get with a 250

as for you getting spanked by a 125, imagine a 250 with the right rider being able to hang with you on the straights and STILL dust you in the corners. Any person with a right hand can twist a throttle! ::)

Listen.  I've ridden both a TZ250, and a tweaked out RS250.  Both are owned by a guy that is the same size as me, and the set up was awesome.  To give you an idea, the RS has a big bore kit, radial Monoblock brembo's, Ohlins forks (real one's, not OEM) and an Ohlins Corsa shock, Arrow exhaust, and the whole 9 yards.  It still wasn't as "smooth" as a 749/999.  It did carry alot more corner speed, but that was expected cause it's lighter, smaller, and more nimble than a 450 lb. twin.  I just don't like 2 strokes, there's not a thing wrong with that.  I like big twins.  I don't really like inline 4's either, but that's just me.  It's all preference.  I'm faster on a twin than anything else, that's why I ride them.  I'm use to the engine braking.  I'll hurt myself on a two stroke because I depend on engine braking too much.  It's just my style.  I'm not looking to be a world champion, and I don't care about points.  I show up and race because I love it. As far as my first comment, it was a joke.  I don't care if they allow 5000 cc 2 strokes in HWT.  It doesn't matter to me.  Whatever is fine.  I just prefer a twin.  As far as any person being able to twist on a throttle your right, BUT... not any person knows when to twist the throttle at the "right" time without ending up on his head.  Throttle control is the most important thing on a high HP/Torque bike.  First time I ever crashed is because I turned it on too early, spun up the rear and ended up on my ass :(

Just a test:

"my ass"

"ass"

"ass hole"

Jeesh.. I can say "ass hole", but not "my a$s"

Dawn.. take off some of these silly word replacements in the admin console.  :)

What the hell?  ???

is this some twostroke vs four stroke stroking contest?  ???

Quoteis this some twostroke vs four stroke stroking contest?  ???

hehe.. Yea.

"I can do it with 4 strokes".. "Oh yea, well I can do it with 2 strokes."

:D

I talked to Chuck Sorenson this past weekend at Mid-Ohio.  For those you who didn't know, Rocky Stargel to campaigning an R1 Superbike with Chuck as his rider.  While they weren't too busy, I ask Chuck how he's doing on the R1.  He basically replied that he still has much to learn.  I ask him about his lap times on the bike at Jennings, where he set the current lap record on his RSV250.  He replied again that he's not yet on pace with his lap record pace.  

So what does that tell you about the prowess of a well setup 250 2-stroke.

I'm sure Chuck with be going faster eventually, he should, but for now I still wish I had my TZ.

Someone check out his lap times from qualifying in AMA SBK this year and AMA 250GP from last year.

Chuck Sorenson Qualifying times at Mid Ohio

2003 on a 250 : 1:31.677
2004 on Superbike: 1:32.236

I'm with you ecumike, I ran my duc at roebling this weekend easily turning high 16's low 17's because thats all I had to do to win. But you guys on the 125's were in the same region of time. The only difference is that a two stroke uses high corner speed , whereas 4's use torque. It's hard for the two to work together. Joanne rides a 125 , I ride 4's, to me it doesn't matter what you ride as log as you're not doing it on the street. Most of us are not going to be the next Jamie Hacking anyway. You can take some riders that fly on 2 strokes , put them on a 4 and they're slow and visa versa. Personaly I think two strokes should be starter bikes, they learn the importance of corner speed. But if you guys want to cry and moan and cuss( which is stupid) bring your butt down to Barber enter the twins, lets see how you do against and old , too rich , cheesy, bald, overweight, buffet eating, truck driving, bugger picking, beer drinking, outta shape ,old fart like myself. Because I can afford to through a perfectly good duc on the ground in a fit of rage, and not cry like a baby.

LOL!

QuoteJust a test:

"my ass"

"ass"

"ass hole"

Jeesh.. I can say "ass hole", but not "my a$s"

Dawn.. take off some of these silly word replacements in the admin console.  :)

 

I'd love to, however I'm just the moderator, not the administrater.

Dawn   :-/

QuoteBut if you guys want to cry and moan and cuss( which is stupid) bring your butt down to Barber enter the twins, lets see how you do against and old , too rich , cheesy, bald, overweight, buffet eating, truck driving, bugger picking, beer drinking, outta shape ,old fart like myself. Because I can afford to through a perfectly good duc on the ground in a fit of rage, and not cry like a baby.

That pretty much sums it up. What Duc you got?

A friend of mine came off stock RS250 this year.  He started out riding the 250 all last season.  This year, he jumped on a Mille R.  As of last weekend, he's looking for the 5 seconds he lost   ;D  The "big bikes" aren't easy to ride either.  He thought he'd just carry the same cornerspeed he did on the 250, and then have more juice on tap and drop another few seconds.  Little did he know....  Long story short, he went down in Turn 1 at Grattan last weekend on the Mille R.  Went in as fast as he use to on the 250.  The rest speaks for itself.   The HWT bikes are alot of work.

Dan, Call me about the 996 that is here waiting for you! You know the one that you left to go to the bank to get CASH for  ::) Friggen tool! >:(

Did you check your voicemail?  NO....



I'm at work.  Leaving from here to Gingerman, then I'll be home Sun. night.

QuoteDan, Call me about the 996 that is here waiting for you! You know the one that you left to go to the bank to get CASH for Ê::) Friggen tool! >:(

 :-* :-*


 ;D

and it's not my fault the bank closes at 6:00 in the ghetto.  I still want it though.  Wanted it for this weekend.. :'(

Keeef... you coming to Gingerman?  

Then move out of the ghetto and you won't have to worry about it ;) Bob is upset with your antics too so take care of this deal asap I'm sick of tripping over all the spares.

I don't want the spares.  Too much crap for my garage.  I got enough crap in there, the last thing I need is cases of Ducati parts.  I might still take the rims too though  :-/  Jeff said he heard on "the block" that I bought a 996R  ???  Thought maybe you said something?  No biggie though.  Uhm... so are you coming to Gingerman or what?  Doesn't Monte have a LED day on Mon. like last year  ???  I'll talk to Ryan, but I don't think we're gonna stay for the track day if there is.  We didn't stay at Grattan for the LED day like before.  I got too much crap going on this year with work to do like we did last year  :(

and, I need you to order a STM slipper for that thing too.....


Amex ain't gonna like me this month  ;D

and I don't live in da ghetto   ;)

I'm not ordering crap for you till I see some $$$. I'm not going to Gingerman till 8/20-22.

QuotePersonaly I think two strokes should be starter bikes, they learn the importance of corner speed. But if you guys want to cry and moan and cuss( which is stupid) bring your butt down to Barber enter the twins, lets see how you do against and old , too rich , cheesy, bald, overweight, buffet eating, truck driving, bugger picking, beer drinking, outta shape ,old fart like myself. Because I can afford to through a perfectly good duc on the ground in a fit of rage, and not cry like a baby.

   You rang?

QuoteWhat the hell?  ???

  Threadjack by Cornercrapping.

  As Diesel said, Kevin Elliot feel's there is a conflict of interest to allow TZ's to race in SuperTwins since CCS sponsor's the USGPRU. ???  Of course MR. Elliot feels that TZ's are faster than 600's.  Sometimes I enjoy living in the past to.

  TZ populus is small thus so is our voice.  Allowing TZ's to race in Supertwins would increase race entry's slightly.  Looking at lap times at any track and a fast rider on a 999. Mille, or RC 51 would beat a 250 at the club level but it would give TZ's 1 more class to at least be competitive in.

I didn't read this whole thread but...

250's and 125's already race HWTSB in WERA and we have no problem with it.  I run the class in both orgs and don't mind a 250 hanging out.  More is always better in the smaller groups.  

QuoteObserving the way two strokes and twins are ridden in the GT Lights class , they take such different line through the corners that sometimes it's just scary....

When that happens, the two stroke guys complain about the twins and the twin riders complain about the two strokes.  Then I get to hear it from both sides.  

Dawn   :)

Well, that assumes that either rider is actually on the right line.  A 250 GP bike ridden properly should kick my butt at Blackhawk.

An R1 is going to have a little different line when compared to a 1000...ridden properly...anyway, the different lines are part of what is actually racing.  If we had the same line...I guess we'd just call it a parade...
 8)

I think it's an interesting idea having GP bikes in Twins...

QuoteMade me realize I need to pick up some more speed in the corners.

Usually it's a problem with how a rider executes the entry and the exit.  There is a way that all the track day people and a lot of other people teach it...then there is the way that a faster rider would execute it...the funny thing is that the "faster guy" way is easier on the terror and panic side of it.

I like having the two smokes out there. They remind me to get off the damn brakes. :)

QuoteI'm with you ecumike, I ran my duc at roebling this weekend easily turning high 16's low 17's because thats all I had to do to win. But you guys on the 125's were in the same region of time. The only difference is that a two stroke uses high corner speed , whereas 4's use torque. It's hard for the two to work together. Joanne rides a 125 , I ride 4's, to me it doesn't matter what you ride as log as you're not doing it on the street. Most of us are not going to be the next Jamie Hacking anyway. You can take some riders that fly on 2 strokes , put them on a 4 and they're slow and visa versa. Personaly I think two strokes should be starter bikes, they learn the importance of corner speed. But if you guys want to cry and moan and cuss( which is stupid) bring your butt down to Barber enter the twins, lets see how you do against and old , too rich , cheesy, bald, overweight, buffet eating, truck driving, bugger picking, beer drinking, outta shape ,old fart like myself. Because I can afford to through a perfectly good duc on the ground in a fit of rage, and not cry like a baby.

Im with Porky, hes my hero. Maybe this first year expert will give him some competition in a year or two. Its tough racing those seasoned experts after they have been to the buffets and beer joints for so many years. ;D ;D Maybe a 955 kit over the winter will help, maybe not! Its still fun racing him, even if its only at the start. ;D

I do get defeated now and then, who knows maybe even by my wife or ecumike on one of those two bangers, but I'm telling you now when the Golden Corrall is having its $2 off special , no-one  can turn a quicker lap time around the buffet better than I , so bring it on young people I shall give you the wisdom of the ancients. And one of the first pieces of wisdom is the morning before every race eat some greasy grit gravy, gizzard greens, and a big pie of ho-ho beans, then as you make turn one, you'll definitely be in a hurry to finish the race. :o ::) ;D

QuoteAnd one of the first pieces of wisdom is the morning before every race eat some greasy grit gravy, gizzard greens, and a big pie of ho-ho beans, then as you make turn one, you'll definitely be in a hurry to finish the race. :o ::) ;D

LOL!!!!!     ;D