Motorcycle Racing Forum

I had the WORST experience this weekend @ Summit Point cornerworking for Team "Pro"Motion track day.

When my girl and I arrived on Sunday, we were treated as though we were an inconvenience and frustration because "We were not on the schedule" of cornerworkers. Not one morsel of appreciation for coming out...much less @ 7am on a holiday...and in the rain.  >:(

At lunch....ALL cornerworkers had to buy their own lunch at the cafe while control riders and a few others ate at the Team "Pro"Motion grill!   >:(

The President of the club blew his engine in T8, left a 4-5 foot wide path, center track to pit in. While most others stood around, myself and two other people (neither of the other two were TPM people) cleaned up the "Valdez like" oil spill. The oil spill was cleaned up before the bike was removed from Pit In road. TPM then requested that they be able to keep the track later than what was already reserved.......AND asked cornerworkers to stay.  :o >:(

When I said that we couldn't stay, the attitude that we received made us want to leave that much more.

Compensation to cornerworkers is a check....THAT IS MAILED AFTER THE EVENT!  >:(

So, I got up early on a holiday, spent $30 out of my pocket, was disrespected, covered myself with kitty litter and not appreciated.



NEVER AGAIN Team "Pro"Motion....never again.

Mkay, b*&ch session done.

Hmmm...

from the looks of their website they said there was supposed to be a cook out...

also their web site says they dedicated to safety..hmm kinda hard to be safe when you piss off all the corner workers.

If you want corner workers like NESBA has, then keep doin what you're doing.  If you want seasoned, experienced workers you better change your ways team pro motion.

WOW. If that's a regular way of doing things for them, that's ridiculous.  >:(

Sorry to hear it.  Totally ridicoulous and outraged.................   >:(  I would have quit corner working no later than when you found out that you need to cover your own lunch and continue to be treated as "they are doing you a favor to let you work".............

I've been wanting to do a track day with some of these "clubs" just to get some time in, but after spectating 2 nesba ones and all the horror stories I hear about TPM, I'd rather do a LP one. ::)  

Hate to jump on the bandwagon but I have left this to simmer since the FUSA/CCS race weekend.

Team Pro Motion came on here and said they would provide the air fence to CCS at no charge and I had said great bring it and left contact info so we could arrange deployment and timing issues never heard another word. Roger Lyle told me he had left word (email I believe) for them also. They did not show for the weekend and when I asked the track if they knew anything about it we were able to contact someone with TPM and they were at VIR doing a track day. Kinda makes you wonder how they could have offered when they knew they would be out of town?

I would like to thank all the racers/spectators/cornerworkers that jumped in to help deploy the CCS airfence for the weekend.

Chris, I'm so sorry to hear about your experience with TPM, but I must say, I'm not surprised.  One of our friends asked me to do the TPM day with him, and I said I'd never do a TPM day.  I have little respect for the owner, and have found their days to be less than enjoyable.  Then our friend calls us and tells us about the oil spill.  He was furious.

What I want to know is how the owner of a track day organization is so irresponsible to let that happen to his own bike (my apologies if it was for some other reason than his own ignorance, but I heard it was his fault)...

I, for one, want to thank you for always being at events and cornerworking.  You do a great job and take your job very seriously, and us racers and family/friends of racers thank you!  

Chris I am sorry you had a crappy day.  I sure appreciated your being out there.  The MARRC crew does a great job and your efforts are never taken for granted by racers who know how hard you work at putting our safety as your priority.  :)

I had never really heard about TPM before participating on Sunday, although I had e-mailed a person there twice before (once in late 2003 and then early 2004) to let them know I was interested in doing track days for them at Summit. The person who reponded both times blew me off and told me to talk to BSR (track owners) if I was interested in working...even AFTER I provided a short "resume" style e-mail explaining my experince.  :-[ So, Sunday was the third strike.

I sent them a rather lengthy e-mail early today prior to my post on here, one individual's response I got back...and this is a quote, "I did read the other e-mail. Please just do not sign on again. Everyone would be better off."  :o ???  Uh, excuse me?



Eric, I want to talk with you about the FUSA/CCS weekend @ Barber. I heard you may be looking for a roommate for the weekend. Still the case? If so, I'm interested. I'll be working with Alan again in control and not sure if I want to camp out.

LAR, thanks for the words of encouragement and appreciation. I know there are alot of racers, spectators and racing staff who greatly appreciate what the cornerworkers do and show it. It's just encountering the bad apple on rare occasions that make you go "hmmmmm".

Bernie, I saw you out there and tried to wave a couple times but I don't know if you saw me. Thanks for the nice words.

4 Words:  Sport Bike Track Time

Best org. I've ever ran with, and I've done tons of track days.

hey chris, I thought you were cool, but I am not too sure about you for making public statements on a racing board about your personal experiences with a different org that lacks entire truth.

so you didn't have a good time. So maybe you feel mistreated as a corner worker, but to put a public statement questioning the entire operation of team pro-motion? We were there for our riders first. We are not there to make you happy (sorry, but its the truth dude), we are there to make our members happy, so we do what is needed to be done for our members. Sure we respect our corner workers because they are usually our members. For this event we hired PA Posses and some MARRC workers. and your complain is not founded because:

I drove the crash truck for both days, so don't say nothing like I dont know what I am talking about.

1. your pit marshall called everyone to go to lunch at the cafeteria. We did not exclude anyone from the grill. BY THE WAY, the corner workers that did stay the night before WERE TREATED at our grill for free food and drinks and enjoyed the fireworks display. So don't make fuss were you don't know the story??? we cooked the LEFTOVER at the grill for lunch Sun and everyone who did show up did get food. The BBQ and party was SAT NIGHT. (yes I know because I posted the notice)

2. the president of the club blew oil, yes. He then went and paid time and half for extra 45 minute of tracktime because he felt bad that he caused a delay. Then after paying the extra money, we were held up because 3 of your MARRC workers LEFT THE POST. We couldn't let people back out on track because we were SHORT OF CORNER WORKERS. You were hired to work until 5, the oil spill happened at 4:20 (yes I know because I drove the crash truck), and oil cleaned up at 4:40, but your corner workers PRESUMED THAT THE DAY WAS OVER BEFORE IT WAS OVER. And we didn't get back on track until after 5 because we couldn't find the corner workers. I did not hear over the radio that the day was over (did you???) and why couldn't we find the corner workers?????????

3. what a check is not good for you? I get a check too, after the event, getting paid is getting paid. How about go work for AMA for free???

there is always 3 sides to any story, you didn't have a good time, I am sorry. Next time I have a complaint about MARRC corner workers, I am going to post a similar message post to every message board I can think of, and we see how you would feel.

and 4. we hired corner workers before the event. if you are not on the list you are not on the list unless you have comfirmation from us.

anyway, it is very childish and immature of you to post the statement the way you posted.

you even made a mockery of our name. Thank you.


I really enjoyed my dealings with corner workers and others from MARRC, but you ...

QuoteHate to jump on the bandwagon but I have left this to simmer since the FUSA/CCS race weekend.

Team Pro Motion came on here and said they would provide the air fence to CCS at no charge and I had said great bring it and left contact info so we could arrange deployment and timing issues never heard another word. Roger Lyle told me he had left word (email I believe) for them also. They did not show for the weekend and when I asked the track if they knew anything about it we were able to contact someone with TPM and they were at VIR doing a track day. Kinda makes you wonder how they could have offered when they knew they would be out of town?

I would like to thank all the racers/spectators/cornerworkers that jumped in to help deploy the CCS airfence for the weekend.

yes Eric, lets talk about that. We send the press release to CCS/FUSA regarding the airfence. It was published on RRW as well.

Well CCS/FUSA did not call us to arrange to use the airfence until Thurs. morning of the event, while you are already down at Summit point.

do you rent the track when you get to summit or do you arrange for usage of the track before hand???

And how did you, or kevin though that we "made arrangement" before hand, I will never know. I never got in touch with you, or Kevin, and why was I mentioned as "said will set it up" I will never know.

its always easy to blame someone else right? I let it simmer too because I figure CCS/FUSA didn't need to use the airfence.

Again, I got a call on thur. of the event that CCS/FUSA needed to use the airfence. Thank you for the planning guys. and yes I was available.

yes, I see you all are a bunch of sensible people here. some hearsay about a different org and everyone jumps on the bandwagon and say "oh they are bad"

we complain about CCS and we were "crybabies and whiners"?

 ::)

QuoteSorry to hear it.  Totally ridicoulous and outraged.................   >:(  I would have quit corner working no later than when you found out that you need to cover your own lunch and continue to be treated as "they are doing you a favor to let you work".............

I would like you to find me a few jobs that pays for your lunch after they paid for your salary???

how much does AMA pay their corner workers?? nothing

how much does CCS pay their corner workers?? someone enlighten me

by the way, on Sat one rider crashed and later was found that he broke 4 or 5 bones.

guess what? the safety crew MADE HIM WALK TO THE AMBULANCE. No I am not making it up, I was there picking up his bike.

QuoteChris, I'm so sorry to hear about your experience with TPM, but I must say, I'm not surprised.  One of our friends asked me to do the TPM day with him, and I said I'd never do a TPM day.  I have little respect for the owner, and have found their days to be less than enjoyable.  Then our friend calls us and tells us about the oil spill.  He was furious.

What I want to know is how the owner of a track day organization is so irresponsible to let that happen to his own bike (my apologies if it was for some other reason than his own ignorance, but I heard it was his fault)...

I, for one, want to thank you for always being at events and cornerworking.  You do a great job and take your job very seriously, and us racers and family/friends of racers thank you!  

yes, you never made a mistake in your riding days.

he made a public apology on the website, he bought extra track time so no one lost any tracktime, and had anyone crashed in the oil (no one did luckily) he would have fixed the bike for that person for free.

we wouldn't have lost so much track time if the 3 cornerworkers didn't leave the post when the cleaning up was going on.

We stood around looking like idiots trying to figure out where they went.

If anyone comes publically to complain about something like this, there's probably a valid point.  You may want to look into it ..  Sounds like people have some valid complaints.  

FWIW, I have no experience with your days.  I turned away at the $165 price tag for a trackday; at Nelson no less.   :(

BTW, cornerworkers should be treated like royalty.

QuoteHate to jump on the bandwagon but I have left this to simmer since the FUSA/CCS race weekend.

Team Pro Motion came on here and said they would provide the air fence to CCS at no charge and I had said great bring it and left contact info so we could arrange deployment and timing issues never heard another word. Roger Lyle told me he had left word (email I believe) for them also. They did not show for the weekend and when I asked the track if they knew anything about it we were able to contact someone with TPM and they were at VIR doing a track day. Kinda makes you wonder how they could have offered when they knew they would be out of town?

I would like to thank all the racers/spectators/cornerworkers that jumped in to help deploy the CCS airfence for the weekend.

And their web site STILL says that they'll provide air fence to ANY and ALL sanctioning bodies that request it **AT NO CHARGE**.

Dafan,

 you are an employee of TPM so I would expect nothing less than you to totally defend them.

Bottom line is that if you don't take care of the corner workers you'll have nothing better than the people that NESBA has. Without corner workers, as you said, you won't be able to ride.

Let's see how many corner workers you have for your next track day at Summit.

Your attempts at defending TPM did nothing short of confirming the bad attitude and lack of professionalism at TPM.

This is a public board.  Last time I checked this was still a country where people could speak their minds about bad experiences.  I don't think that's "immature" as you put it and judging from the other negative comments about TPM it's well founded.

So I'm sure you'll have a defense and counter story for each bad point brought to light about TPM but again the bottom line is still this; TREAT YOUR WORKERS RIGHT OR YOU'LL BE STANDING AROUND WONDERING WHY THERE AREN'T BIKES ON COURSE.

Quoteby the way, on Sat one rider crashed and later was found that he broke 4 or 5 bones.

guess what? the safety crew MADE HIM WALK TO THE AMBULANCE. No I am not making it up, I was there picking up his bike.

Was later found to have 4 or 5 broken bones?  Was he transported by the ambulance?  Just out of curiousity what turn was this in?  

Don't just throw out part of the story and then turn around and accuse other people of only telling half the story in another post.

R6  went and checked it was you that came here and posted the info about the air fence being available from TPM I responded to that thread and never recieved any response, and last word was "I will update when I find out"
 
http://www.racemotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=ccs1;action=display;num=1084401539

And how can you say you were availabe when TPM was at VIR?

I think at this point I should probably post a little disclaimer...

"All opinions expressed here are the opinions of the author and are no way tied to any organization, group or affliation.  The opinions expressed here may not be shared or endorsed by any other persons or organizations"

thank you

I sit here and read this thread and can only imagine that more then half of the people replying negitive posts about TPM has probably never even gone to a TPM event. To say they are not professional is completly off base. Go to an event first before you comment. You will see at any TPM event there are more "professional services" provided then any other club around, wether it is airfence that no other club provides, to tire changing, parts, and even a race school that is available, something not many clubs offer.

You can b!tch about not getting lunch, (which aparently it was there for you) You can b!tch about being "mistreated" that happens and I am sure it wont be the last time either. But you know what you are getting in to when you came to corner work. You knew you werent on the list i assume they had to fit you in and you are getting PAID to corner work.

You dont have the b!tch about who oiled down the track. Heck it could have been a beginner or an expert racer who did it, but apparently you wanted to make your little rant more eye catching by saying it was the club president. Fact is it dosent matter who oiled the track down you just had to make your point .

Sorry you had a bad experience, but the fact is for every one bad experience with the club there are about 150 fantastic experinces with TPM that no one posts about.

Dafan, I am not allowed to make public comments about an experience that I had with an organization? Last time I checked, we live in the Land of the Free, which includes Freedom of Speech. Go look at the some other threads on this board....you see people complaining everywhere! I'm not a baby, I'm not a whiner. I am an experienced cornerworker who just wants a bit of respect and consideration.

"your pit marshall called everyone to go to lunch at the cafeteria. We did not exclude anyone from the grill."

When I came in for lunch, I asked the PA guys what we were doing for lunch, they told me, "We have to buy our own." There WAS NEVER a public statement on the cornerworker net announcing squat, much less to come visit the grill.

3 MARRC people left their post? Yeah, to assist WITH THE OIL CLEANUP! Also, during cleanup, OVER THE NET, it was mentioned by several people in charge that "it may be called a day". The oil spill was cleaned up, T5, T7 & myself were back on station and clear and green, but there were a handful of individuals at Pit In ON TRACK! I believe that I recall the lady from T10 saying "It looks like there's a party over here!" We had a clear and green course, then T10 announces that there are 2 bikes entering the course counter-race direction, at which point we were instructed to show these riders the red flag, which I did and got them off. The reason for the further delay, if you recall Dafan, was that someone felt it necessary to send replacements for myself and T5. I told control I had until 5:15. We could have run at least one more session while the replacements were being delivered.

"by the way, on Sat one rider crashed and later was found that he broke 4 or 5 bones. guess what? the safety crew MADE HIM WALK TO THE AMBULANCE. No I am not making it up, I was there picking up his bike."

Hang on, the portable BSR X-ray machine is parked at New Baker. Lemme go grab it for you.   ::)  How in the world do you expect anyone to detect a broken bone. You should know, we ask, where does it hurt? If the rider wants to get up, cool....but do you really think the cornerworker did something along the lines of "Get up and walk to the ambulance....it's parked right over there. Come on."

I had a bad experience, I expressed my concerns, first to the powers that be a TPM, then here. If I would have come on here first and posted with not even saying anything to anyone at TPM, then I could see where I went wrong. But the response I received from TPM was less than comforting.

Yeah, that's correct, I wasn't on the list of "predetermined" cornerworkers, but I showed up to lend a hand. I did visit the track on Saturday, spoke with some individuals running Pit Out and they informed me they were losing 2 cornerworkers and wondered if I could come back on Sunday to help out. Pardon me for being considerate.

Yeah, we get paid.....but I don't care about the money. AMA pays in the neighborhood of $70/day AND buys lunch. CCS Track days, they pay $65/day plus buys lunch. "Another" track day organization cooks breakfast, pays $65/day, buys lunch, and has ooodles of bottled water for workers. MARRC does not pay cornerworkers. Chef EmerWil cooks lunch & dinner on Saturdays and lunch on Sundays. Along with all the soda, Red Bull, juice, water, snacks you can possibly imagine. I have dedicated A LOT of time to my MARRC family because I love the sport, NOT BECAUSE of the money. The point, every other organization that I have done track days for BUYS cornerworkers lunch or cooks it for them. I guess I assumed that TPM would do the same.....but look what happens when I assume.......

QuoteAnd their web site STILL says that they'll provide air fence to ANY and ALL sanctioning bodies that request it **AT NO CHARGE**.

it IS NO CHARGE. the org has to sign a damage and liability waiver thats all.

QuoteWas later found to have 4 or 5 broken bones?  Was he transported by the ambulance?  Just out of curiousity what turn was this in?  

Don't just throw out part of the story and then turn around and accuse other people of only telling half the story in another post.

thats what he did in the first post? and the rest of "chiming in". including the airfence story...

Quotethats what he did in the first post? and the rest of "chiming in". including the airfence story...

you still didn't answer my questions...

QuoteR6  went and checked it was you that came here and posted the info about the air fence being available from TPM I responded to that thread and never recieved any response, and last word was "I will update when I find out"
 
http://www.racemotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=ccs1;action=display;num=1084401539

And how can you say you were availabe when TPM was at VIR?

I have a crew that is independent of the TPM crew that goes to track days. I tried to contact you to discuss the logistic of setting up the airfence. In the pressrelease that was sent to CCS/FUSA, it stated to contact team promotion for usage of the air fence. Since we never was contacted by CCS/FUSA we thought you didn't need to use them, until we were called on thur of the event, from the track. I was not at VIR, I could have set it up if arrangements were made. There is a little mix up there, I am sorry, but don't make it seem like we offered it and couldn't set it up. it could have been done, but we were never contacted. liability and damage waivers, and contract had to be signed (standard proceedure for all track events racing or not isnt it).

QuoteDafan, I am not allowed to make public comments about an experience that I had with an organization? Last time I checked, we live in the Land of the Free, which includes Freedom of Speech. Go look at the some other threads on this board....you see people complaining everywhere! I'm not a baby, I'm not a whiner. I am an experienced cornerworker who just wants a bit of respect and consideration.

"your pit marshall called everyone to go to lunch at the cafeteria. We did not exclude anyone from the grill."

When I came in for lunch, I asked the PA guys what we were doing for lunch, they told me, "We have to buy our own." There WAS NEVER a public statement on the cornerworker net announcing squat, much less to come visit the grill.

3 MARRC people left their post? Yeah, to assist WITH THE OIL CLEANUP! Also, during cleanup, OVER THE NET, it was mentioned by several people in charge that "it may be called a day". The oil spill was cleaned up, T5, T7 & myself were back on station and clear and green, but there were a handful of individuals at Pit In ON TRACK! I believe that I recall the lady from T10 saying "It looks like there's a party over here!" We had a clear and green course, then T10 announces that there are 2 bikes entering the course counter-race direction, at which point we were instructed to show these riders the red flag, which I did and got them off. The reason for the further delay, if you recall Dafan, was that someone felt it necessary to send replacements for myself and T5. I told control I had until 5:15. We could have run at least one more session while the replacements were being delivered.

"by the way, on Sat one rider crashed and later was found that he broke 4 or 5 bones. guess what? the safety crew MADE HIM WALK TO THE AMBULANCE. No I am not making it up, I was there picking up his bike."

Hang on, the portable BSR X-ray machine is parked at New Baker. Lemme go grab it for you.   ::)  How in the world do you expect anyone to detect a broken bone. You should know, we ask, where does it hurt? If the rider wants to get up, cool....but do you really think the cornerworker did something along the lines of "Get up and walk to the ambulance....it's parked right over there. Come on."

I had a bad experience, I expressed my concerns, first to the powers that be a TPM, then here. If I would have come on here first and posted with not even saying anything to anyone at TPM, then I could see where I went wrong. But the response I received from TPM was less than comforting.

lunch: I was standing there when control said "I will meet everyone at the cafeteria". I did not think we stated anywhere that "free lunch is offered" Maybe we should have, this we can look into.

Grill: as I said, it was left over food from the day before, we had enough leftover to have lunch for our control riders, it is a personal treat by the owner. If I had cooked food and offered my friends, would you complain that I didn't give you any???


by the way, I am expressing my personal opinions there, and my views does not represent the official opion of team pro-motion


I work on admin. stuff for team pro-motion, I do not run the trackdays, or work to run the trackdays.

I am sorry you felt mistreated by persons that were at the track, but please don't equate 1 or 2 or 3 persons to the entire organization. Again we were there to put on a trackday and I will stand here and tell you we do that very well, most of the time. If you think things need to be improved when it comes to corner worker treatment, then someone will listen. The person you talked to didn't want to listen? Was she the president? was she the only person who you can contact? We can resolve things, if one person does not want to listen or continue to treat you bad, please try another route.

I was just upset to read people start to "jump on the bandwagon" and start to feel negative about the whole organization for your dealings with 1 person. Did you deal with me? Was I rude to you too? was everyone?

I am going to stop talking about 1 day, going back forth arguing about what happened is petty.

so I apologize that you had a bad experience, if we could help you feel differently in anyway, please email me, and I will try to see to it that you get a good response and we will try to do things differently the next time.

By the way, the injured rider, as far and *I know* was told to walk to the ambulance. I will refrain from mentioning it again until I have more info and circumstance on that. But, yes, he was told to get up and walk to the ambulance.

QuoteYeah, that's correct, I wasn't on the list of "predetermined" cornerworkers, but I showed up to lend a hand. I did visit the track on Saturday, spoke with some individuals running Pit Out and they informed me they were losing 2 cornerworkers and wondered if I could come back on Sunday to help out. Pardon me for being considerate.

Yeah, we get paid.....but I don't care about the money. AMA pays in the neighborhood of $70/day AND buys lunch. CCS Track days, they pay $65/day plus buys lunch. "Another" track day organization cooks breakfast, pays $65/day, buys lunch, and has ooodles of bottled water for workers. MARRC does not pay cornerworkers. Chef EmerWil cooks lunch & dinner on Saturdays and lunch on Sundays. Along with all the soda, Red Bull, juice, water, snacks you can possibly imagine. I have dedicated A LOT of time to my MARRC family because I love the sport, NOT BECAUSE of the money. The point, every other organization that I have done track days for BUYS cornerworkers lunch or cooks it for them. I guess I assumed that TPM would do the same.....but look what happens when I assume.......

ok, I can clear this up for you. you mentioned a couple of times "several persons in charge" there is NO several person in charge. If you weren;t on the list of cornerworkers, then you need approval of the person who does pay the corner workers. I appreciate that you came and helped. But if you weren't told by the person who make up the list, then you are not on the list and she could have rejected your services, if we had enough people.

but most importantly, I was upset to see you equate your exprience with us to how we *always* treat corner workers. If one person had a bad day, that means everyone always have a bad day? I am again sorry you had a bad time, but everyone deserve a benefit of the doubt, and to see everyone else who has never been to a TPM event to chime in and say negative things, it wasn't cool. I don't really care what you think of me, but I am going to come and defend, not because I work for them (I do not really have anything to do with the trackdays, I am not even a CR anymore, I just ran the crash truck because they needed someone) I just feel it is not right.

We had a great time Sat night with some of the corner workers, and I didn't know of any one of the rest had any complaints. I thanked everyone who helped me load up bikes, and I wasn't rude to anyone, why can't that be a indication that it is only one person who was treating you wrong, and not everyone gets treated wrong everytime?

I guess the whole point is to not paint an incomplete picture of the whole org based on one person's experience one day. Can we do that?

as much as I complaint about CCS things here, I never complained about it on another board. This is a CCS board and I feel it is the right avenue for that.

Dafan, I applaud you for standing up for TPM, but I think you need to realize, some people just have not had a good experience.  For whomever said that the people complaining have probably never done a TPM day, I will state for the record that I have.  Been there, tried it, and that was enough for me.

There were other bad experiences with TPM that were so completely unprofessional that I won't even discuss them, because some things are better left in private.  I feel that your bashing everyone who had a complaint about TPM should have been left private as well.  Do you think everyone who eats at a restaurant will always have a good experience, or will some complain?  It's just human nature that different people have different experiences.  I will have to agree with EmerWil that the way you handled responding to people's posts just shows how unprofessional TPM can be to the people who pay them money or try to offer their services.

QuoteWas later found to have 4 or 5 broken bones?  Was he transported by the ambulance?  Just out of curiousity what turn was this in?  

Don't just throw out part of the story and then turn around and accuse other people of only telling half the story in another post.

sorry, it was late and I was upset. He crashed in turn 3 I think (not entirely sure because I picked up about 25 people), and was intructed to walk to the ambulance, then transported.

QuoteDafan, I applaud you for standing up for TPM, but I think you need to realize, some people just have not had a good experience.  For whomever said that the people complaining have probably never done a TPM day, I will state for the record that I have.  Been there, tried it, and that was enough for me.

There were other bad experiences with TPM that were so completely unprofessional that I won't even discuss them, because some things are better left in private.  I feel that your bashing everyone who had a complaint about TPM should have been left private as well.  Do you think everyone who eats at a restaurant will always have a good experience, or will some complain?  It's just human nature that different people have different experiences.  I will have to agree with EmerWil that the way you handled responding to people's posts just shows how unprofessional TPM can be to the people who pay them money or try to offer their services.

I am not on official behalf of TPM here, so please don't equate that to being "unprofessional" I don't believe posts that were posted at 1am by someone who does not run trackdays or hire anyone's services as being "professional" in any way or how.

I, just like chris, was voicing my personal opinions. you want to call him unprofessional too? an independent contractor complaining about the hirer of his services on a public board, please call that professional?

I am not standing up for TPM, we have a lot of members, and the org. stands up for itself.

please stop equating 1 person to the organization. I have a name, and it is not "team pro-motion". I just say how I feel. I don't get paid to defend tpm, I don't get paid to run trackdays. I get paid like everyone else when I offer services. I am not even an employee of tpm, so GET THAT RIGHT.

so how does that show that TPM is unprofessional?

my name is Dafan Zhang. My company is APro Connect Inc. My racing team is UltraScreens Racing. I subcontract for Team Pro-Motion to provide Data Solutions.

I said something because I was there this weekend and knew a lot of what went on. Not representing TPM as you may think  ::)

QuoteI am not on official behalf of TPM here, so please don't equate that to being "unprofessional" I don't believe posts that were posted at 1am by someone who does not run trackdays or hire anyone's services as being "professional" in any way or how.

I, just like chris, was voicing my personal opinions. you want to call him unprofessional too? an independent contractor complaining about the hirer of his services on a public board, please call that professional?

I am not standing up for TPM, we have a lot of members, and the org. stands up for itself.

please stop equating 1 person to the organization. I have a name, and it is not "team pro-motion". I just say how I feel. I don't get paid to defend tpm, I don't get paid to run trackdays. I get paid like everyone else when I offer services. I am not even an employee of tpm, so GET THAT RIGHT.

so how does that show that TPM is unprofessional?

my name is Dafan Zhang. My company is APro Connect Inc. My racing team is UltraScreens Racing. I subcontract for Team Pro-Motion to provide Data Solutions.

I said something because I was there this weekend and knew a lot of what went on. Not representing TPM as you may think  ::)

Dafan I know who you are and I know you are a stand up guy.  You took this as an attack on you (or so it looked by your defensive responses).  This WAS A COMMENT ON LINDA.  

As far as you not being an employee of TMP you are listed on their website under the STAFF PAGE as "Marketing Director/ Web Development" and "Race Support".  That sounds like an employee to me.  

This will be my last post regarding this issue.  Linda Rabb is unprfessional and needs to work on her communication skills and I will tell EVERYONE I talk to how unprofessional Linda Rabb is.  

QuoteDafan I know who you are and I know you are a stand up guy.  You took this as an attack on you (or so it looked by your defensive responses).  This WAS A COMMENT ON LINDA.  

As far as you not being an employee of TMP you are listed on their website under the STAFF PAGE as "Marketing Director/ Web Development" and "Race Support".  That sounds like an employee to me.  

This will be my last post regarding this issue.  Linda Rabb is unprfessional and needs to work on her communication skills and I will tell EVERYONE I talk to how unprofessional Linda Rabb is.  

I am really not doing marketing stuff anymore, so I should do my job and update that huh lol I know who you are too and you have been very nice to me each time I went to that little crappy hospital  :o thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, I will not defend linda, she is how she is, and I aam not going to make excuses for it. But please, contact the president if you have more issues, he will more than willing to listen to your complaints.

But again, please do not relate unpleasant experiences with Linda to unpleasant experience with TPM, because the rest of TPM has a lot to offer our customers and people do have a good time most of the time, believe it or not.

I don't think I have ever treated anyone wrongfully when it comes to TPM affairs that I have been involved with, I have taken my bike apart quite a few times to lend people parts so they can finish their day, I feel like I, and most of us, treat everyone with respect and help in anyway we can.

As a org? one guy crashed sun and was taken to the hosptal, we loaded his truck and drove to the hospital at 9pm on july of 4th because I didn't want to leave his stuff at the track (well it would hard to get back there if he got released). I think we treat our customers with respect and consideration most of the time and try to do it right. sometimes, someone doesn't do a good job, but we always try.

If you want to say I am an employee, fine, then let me say, I was personally upset with the comments because I know it does not hold true all the time. I hate to have 1 person reflect bad on our org, but it is not all like that. Ok if you want to consider me to be a part of TPM then I say I never treat people like that, so please let me reflect what tpm has to offer too.

and LAR, please don't call me unprofessional, I wasn't trying to be. posting on a message board doesnt need to be professional, and I am not going to pretend to be. I represent myself here.

Quoteok, I can clear this up for you. you mentioned a couple of times "several persons in charge" there is NO several person in charge. If you weren;t on the list of cornerworkers, then you need approval of the person who does pay the corner workers. I appreciate that you came and helped. But if you weren't told by the person who make up the list, then you are not on the list and she could have rejected your services, if we had enough people.

but most importantly, I was upset to see you equate your exprience with us to how we *always* treat corner workers. If one person had a bad day, that means everyone always have a bad day? I am again sorry you had a bad time, but everyone deserve a benefit of the doubt, and to see everyone else who has never been to a TPM event to chime in and say negative things, it wasn't cool. I don't really care what you think of me, but I am going to come and defend, not because I work for them (I do not really have anything to do with the trackdays, I am not even a CR anymore, I just ran the crash truck because they needed someone) I just feel it is not right.

We had a great time Sat night with some of the corner workers, and I didn't know of any one of the rest had any complaints. I thanked everyone who helped me load up bikes, and I wasn't rude to anyone, why can't that be a indication that it is only one person who was treating you wrong, and not everyone gets treated wrong everytime?

I guess the whole point is to not paint an incomplete picture of the whole org based on one person's experience one day. Can we do that?

as much as I complaint about CCS things here, I never complained about it on another board. This is a CCS board and I feel it is the right avenue for that.

That's fine, if TPM didn't need my services, all someone had to do was say, "Chris, ya know what, we really appreciate you coming out but we are fully staffed. You're more than welcome to hang out if you want, or even help someone in a turn, but you will not be compensated."

Dafan, in your first response to my post, you referred to yourself and TPM as "We" and "Our", therefore would give the impression you ARE part of TPM and an employee...plus you are listed on their site as an employee. I never made a personal attack against you or said anything derogatory towards you so you shouldn't equate this as an attack against you.

Also, I never said TPM "always" treats their cornerworkers this way. I was making a point about MY experience during one specific day.

FYI, I sent multiple e-mails to multiple individuals @ TPM and all responses so far have been to "not sign up again" and that I have "nature issues". :P  And one of those responses came from the President. I tried, man.....I tried.

Part of my beef is with Linda's attitude....and it DOES reflect on TPM as an organization, especially during an event that TPM is conducting and being in a position of "authority" that she's in.

I am going to cease on any further posts on this subject. My concerns have been expressed to TPM and also on here. I had a bad day and made it known.

well sorry, I was tired to type TPM... maybe I should have typed they... well never mind, I did say we or us, but I was speaking out of my personal feelings.

if you got response from everyone that said "not sign up again" I don't actually believe that should have been a good/right response. So I am going to take this issue up and see if I can get anything out of it. I am not the power that be, but people do listen to me sometimes.

Again I am sorry you had a bad time, but I would like to see people *ok* (doesnt have to be happy) with how things were than bash TPM elsewhere. So please, I will see what I can get out of this.

but for everyone else that chimed in, please, its not a bandwagon, and unless you corner worked and had a bad time and want to say something, I am going to bash you senseless  ;D

And Eric, airfence, don't blame me, or TPM, CCS/FUSA can stand better organizing and planning. and for the last time, no matter where TPM is going, someone can set up the airfence at summit, if arrangements are made BEFORE the event. so don't act like TPM made announcement about the airfence then no no can use it. Its there, book it.

I would just like to say that I have been riding with TPM for 5+ years now and I LOVE them.  I've watched the club grow, and memebers come and go.  Sure my oppinion might be one sided... But I don't care because it seems this post is running that way...

I've riden with NESBA in the past and Track Time Sports Club (whatever name it is)...

They are all great organisation.. but I always come back to TPM, they are my family now....

I now have the pleasure of teaching new riders on how to ride the track.. It's the greatest experience and have recieve lots of emails of thanks...

Over the past 5+ years of track riding I've seen each club take there LUMPS with silly posts like this.  Hey, not every club is for you.. It's fine, but if you are on the track with me or corning for me.. I would like to say thank you.. Thank you !!!!!!

-Lee Rubin Coach Number #9
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gasngears.com%2Fimages%2FFYOUsm.jpg&hash=d04f2a5949b999ab78595f1285ea58152fc1dba5)

My credentials:  6 year racer, 15 year corner worker, 1 year paid professional pit crew.  Also, the first 18 years of my life I was a pit rat for my dad in SCCA car racing.

My opinion:  Good, experienced corner workers are the most precious comodity in racing.  Not every organization realises this.  CCS pays $50 per day and a free lunch.  How many people would work an outdoor job for a 14 hour day in a high-risk environment for $3.50 per hour and a crappy lunch?  Quick!  Let's see a show of hands!  Now let's figure in the worker's travel expenses...
Good workers will have a yellow up before your @$$ hits the ground.  Bad workers won't notice when you disappear into the shrubbery.  Hopefully, someone will eventually notice you never loaded your trailer and go looking for you the next day...
Anyone who disrespects the corner worker should be banned from racing.  Injury, illness, fatigue, sunburn, windburn, frostbite...  These are the pay most workers get.  That and a thumbs-up from the riders after the race.
 I know nothing about the events described in this thread, so I will not make any comment about them.  But if ANYONE out there starts making out like corner workers are lazy, spoiled, or do it for the money, I WILL be looking to continue the conversation face-to-face!

QuoteI sit here and read this thread and can only imagine that more then half of the people replying negitive posts about TPM has probably never even gone to a TPM event. To say they are not professional is completly off base. Go to an event first before you comment. You will see at any TPM event there are more "professional services" provided then any other club around, wether it is airfence that no other club provides, to tire changing, parts, and even a race school that is available, something not many clubs offer.

You can b!tch about not getting lunch, (which aparently it was there for you) You can b!tch about being "mistreated" that happens and I am sure it wont be the last time either. But you know what you are getting in to when you came to corner work. You knew you werent on the list i assume they had to fit you in and you are getting PAID to corner work.

You dont have the b!tch about who oiled down the track. Heck it could have been a beginner or an expert racer who did it, but apparently you wanted to make your little rant more eye catching by saying it was the club president. Fact is it dosent matter who oiled the track down you just had to make your point .

Sorry you had a bad experience, but the fact is for every one bad experience with the club there are about 150 fantastic experinces with TPM that no one posts about.

personally, i think a track club president SHOULD know better than to continue driving on track rather than get off right away... a beginner is... well, a beginner..

QuoteMy credentials:  6 year racer, 15 year corner worker, 1 year paid professional pit crew.  Also, the first 18 years of my life I was a pit rat for my dad in SCCA car racing.

My opinion:  Good, experienced corner workers are the most precious comodity in racing.  Not every organization realises this.  CCS pays $50 per day and a free lunch.  How many people would work an outdoor job for a 14 hour day in a high-risk environment for $3.50 per hour and a crappy lunch?  Quick!  Let's see a show of hands!  Now let's figure in the worker's travel expenses...
Good workers will have a yellow up before your @$$ hits the ground.  Bad workers won't notice when you disappear into the shrubbery.  Hopefully, someone will eventually notice you never loaded your trailer and go looking for you the next day...
Anyone who disrespects the corner worker should be banned from racing.  Injury, illness, fatigue, sunburn, windburn, frostbite...  These are the pay most workers get.  That and a thumbs-up from the riders after the race.
 I know nothing about the events described in this thread, so I will not make any comment about them.  But if ANYONE out there starts making out like corner workers are lazy, spoiled, or do it for the money, I WILL be looking to continue the conversation face-to-face!

Bravo!:D:D

QuoteMy credentials:  6 year racer, 15 year corner worker, 1 year paid professional pit crew.  Also, the first 18 years of my life I was a pit rat for my dad in SCCA car racing.

My opinion:  Good, experienced corner workers are the most precious comodity in racing.  Not every organization realises this.  CCS pays $50 per day and a free lunch.  How many people would work an outdoor job for a 14 hour day in a high-risk environment for $3.50 per hour and a crappy lunch?  Quick!  Let's see a show of hands!  Now let's figure in the worker's travel expenses...
Good workers will have a yellow up before your @$$ hits the ground.  Bad workers won't notice when you disappear into the shrubbery.  Hopefully, someone will eventually notice you never loaded your trailer and go looking for you the next day...
Anyone who disrespects the corner worker should be banned from racing.  Injury, illness, fatigue, sunburn, windburn, frostbite...  These are the pay most workers get.  That and a thumbs-up from the riders after the race.
 I know nothing about the events described in this thread, so I will not make any comment about them.  But if ANYONE out there starts making out like corner workers are lazy, spoiled, or do it for the money, I WILL be looking to continue the conversation face-to-face!

<getting up off the floor>

Wow.. what a great post.  It's good to see people who praise the workers.  If you'll graciously allow me to put on my MARRC hat for a second i'll put my "club" two cents worth in.

I have been with MARRC for 4 years now.  I worked the turns for 2 years and I am also the club Secretary as well as the Food Committee Chairman.  I am responsible for feeding, hydrating, and the general gastric care of the MARRC workers.  I do this because I want to.  We don't get paid.  We are out there for the love of the sport.  Because we don't pay our workers we have to make sure we are taking care of the workers as well as we possibly can.  If we don't, we won't have workers.  I take great pride in the roles that I do for the club and I don't do things half ass.  I either do it right or I don't do it.

Some people seem to think that it's ok to just do an "ok" job.  And that it's ok to personally attack people when they point out "shortcomings" in their program.  

So in a nut shell workers have a different perspective. And as K3 so clearly pointed out the workers sometimes get the short end of the stick.

Just remember.  We, the corner workers, are there for the racers.  We are there to provide the best possible SUPPORT to allow you, the racer, to ride harder and ride faster than you would ever think of doing when we aren't there.

Please don't make us feel like jackasses for caring enough to say something when we see something that isn't right.

Will

TPM,
  i have to say after reading this post i can't believe you as a org. or certain people in your org. would treat someone or a group of people this way. i myself am a cornerworker and have been for 6 years
i've worked with chris many times and to show someone with that much knowledge and experiance at Summit that type of disrespect is crazy i know i as well as a few others are at Summit and other tracks in the mid atlantic region alot through out the racing season and i have to agree with chris if i was treated like that i'd have told you all to go to hell and find a new worker or tell the racers/street bike riders they had to go home because you don't know how to treat people. i know after hearing this i won't do and of your events and i'm sure alot of people won't eaither. tell me this ladies and gentlmen what will you do when you have no workers come out at Summit or anywhere else wait let me tell you you won't have a track day. so yall think you could get off your high horses and pay some respect to those who come out even if they aren't on a list or not supposed to be there and thank them for coming . thats the least you could do.

Allen cox

QuoteTPM,
  i have to say after reading this post i can't believe you as a org. or certain people in your org. would treat someone or a group of people this way. i myself am a cornerworker and have been for 6 years
i've worked with chris many times and to show someone with that much knowledge and experiance at Summit that type of disrespect is crazy i know i as well as a few others are at Summit and other tracks in the mid atlantic region alot through out the racing season and i have to agree with chris if i was treated like that i'd have told you all to go to hell and find a new worker or tell the racers/street bike riders they had to go home because you don't know how to treat people. i know after hearing this i won't do and of your events and i'm sure alot of people won't eaither. tell me this ladies and gentlmen what will you do when you have no workers come out at Summit or anywhere else wait let me tell you you won't have a track day. so yall think you could get off your high horses and pay some respect to those who come out even if they aren't on a list or not supposed to be there and thank them for coming . thats the least you could do.

Allen cox

I would like to add that Chris was not contacted or contracted by any TPM official to work on Sunday. Chris was told by the marshal on Sat, who he knows, to "come and help out on sunday". This person does not pay the corner workers, nor make that decision.

so Chris shows up in the morning. TPM already contracted ENOUGH corner workers for the day. Sorry, TPM pays corner workers, rather well. $75 a day. So here they had a certain amount of people on hand, so should they have paid $150 extra for 2 person they did not need because Chris showed up because his friend told him so? You tell me?

So he did show up, TPM did not send him away. Rather, TPM sends the 2 PRE-CONTRACTED worker that are from TPM away.

Lunch? How about if TPM pays $70 perday and spends the $5 dollar to buy you lunch. Would that mean TPM Respect corner workers more? That would still be more than whatever that was mentioned, from other orgs.

I have read the emails Chris sent to TPM today. Because he said he didn't get good responses, so I looked into it.

Apparently Chris is most upset because

1. no one greeted him properly in the morning. Chris, you weren't on the list, I don't know how you expected to be greeted. If I showed up at my job on sunday morning and expected to get paid $75 even though I wasnt supposed to be there, how would I be greeted? I am not defending anyone here, because I wasn't present, but apparently Chris felt that he should have been appreciated to show up to help. Yes, but TPM didn't need the help. Sorry, TPM hired 2 person from SBR, as you were told.

2. oil spill. Chris was very upset because he was not going to receive "extra compensation" for staying after 5. So even though TPM decided to run past 5pm, Chris decides he had enough and wanted to leave, WHILE BIKES ARE STILL ON TRACK. If Chris feels very much for the safety of the riders, then getting paid or not, Chris should have no problem staying until 6 pm, JUST for the safety of the riders. Intead of leaving the post while track is still hot...

3. I did notice something interesting in Chris' email to TPM. Apparently Chris felt that Air Modules WERE NOT A GOOD THING FOR RIDERS.

sure Chris.

these are direct quotes from Chris' email:

QuoteAfter the cleanup, there was talk of reserving the track for an extra hour because of the mishap. Keith made a request over the radio asking if cornerworkers could stay. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!    You want us cornerworkers to go out of our way? To give you more time with no additional compensation? To give you more time when we have received nothing thus far? To give you more time when I had to pay for my own lunch? To give you more time when Linda's attitude was less than desirable? To give you more time on a holiday? You get the point. I was done. The damage had been done. I had zero interest in helping out any more.

safety first? sure Chris

QuoteOn Saturday, Tina and I were on our way to visit my brother in Inwood, WV (not even thinking about the track) and decided to take the scenic route. When I drove past Summit and saw bikes, I had to pull in and check what was going on. I arrived in the pits and saw Keith Landis and Andy Curro working Pit Out. These guys do A LOT of stuff with MARRC and are both friends of mine. It didn't take me long to learn it was a track weekend for TPM. I immediately inquired with Keith to the status of cornerworkers....Were there enough? Did he need help?. His answer to me, "We're losing 2 cornerworkers after today. One will be participating on the track and the other can't work." My passion for bikes and a willingness to help out a friend in need had me conjuring up ways to get back to the track on Sunday. I told Keith that I would talk to Tina to see if she would be willing to come back and work with me since it was a holiday.

Ok, TPM lost 2 workers for sunday. So TPM went to summit point and hired 2 more. And that WAS NOT YOU. If you are going to show up and work, and expect to get paid (it seems very obvious) you should have contacted whoever that is doing the hiring (and paying).

Quotehttp://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php?page_id=feature_051004  "The team's investment into rider safety will continue and will remain a top priority." This is where the injustice lies.......TPM doesn't consider cornerworkers an "investment"????? Nah......air modules.   Friggin incredible! This explains the mentality of the staff.

Chris, our opinions may vary, but PLEASE. You or any other corner workers would not have saved me, I hit that freaking wall twice. Air module would have saved my freaking pelvis, arm, shoulder, elbow, spine, and my head. You would not have done anything for me!!!! It is incredible you would make a statement like that being safety concious as you say.

So I just want to say, that there are things Chris posted, and there are things that Chris DIDN'T post. Also Chris stated

"You are going down, I am going to post it everywhere"

yes Chris treatened, and carried out his threat.

I would happy to post the entire emails, if that will show where Chris really stands...

And Chris, it was me who drove the poor guys truck to the hospital at 9PM, I didn't get home until 2am. It was not you. You wanted to leave at 5pm because we didn't offer to pay you more.

Quotepersonally, i think a track club president SHOULD know better than to continue driving on track rather than get off right away... a beginner is... well, a beginner..

he did not know the oil thing until a control rider came next to him and frantically signaled him to get off the track, at which point, he went into the grass and got off the track. The oil was between turn 9 and turn 10 (never made to turn 10). It was not 3-4 turns or half the track. It was 1 straightaway.

His tire were covered with oil, had he not been going straight, he would have crashed. He didn't because he pulled off as soon as someone let him know oil was coming out.

QuoteMy credentials:  6 year racer, 15 year corner worker, 1 year paid professional pit crew.  Also, the first 18 years of my life I was a pit rat for my dad in SCCA car racing.

My opinion:  Good, experienced corner workers are the most precious comodity in racing.  Not every organization realises this.  CCS pays $50 per day and a free lunch.  How many people would work an outdoor job for a 14 hour day in a high-risk environment for $3.50 per hour and a crappy lunch?  Quick!  Let's see a show of hands!  Now let's figure in the worker's travel expenses...
Good workers will have a yellow up before your @$$ hits the ground.  Bad workers won't notice when you disappear into the shrubbery.  Hopefully, someone will eventually notice you never loaded your trailer and go looking for you the next day...
Anyone who disrespects the corner worker should be banned from racing.  Injury, illness, fatigue, sunburn, windburn, frostbite...  These are the pay most workers get.  That and a thumbs-up from the riders after the race.
 I know nothing about the events described in this thread, so I will not make any comment about them.  But if ANYONE out there starts making out like corner workers are lazy, spoiled, or do it for the money, I WILL be looking to continue the conversation face-to-face!

you can come to me face to face if you wish  ;D but read Chris' email, he was griping about money alright.

QuoteBottom line is that if you don't take care of the corner workers you'll have nothing better than the people that NESBA has. professionalism at TPM.

I don't understand what NESBA has to do with any of this but since you took it upon yourself to make such an absurd comment please allow me to respond.

Are you saying that NESBA uses CR's that are not at the same level of qualification/experience as TPM?  I know NESBA has utilized volunteers on a very limited basis in certain situations, mostly at Pocono.   The fact is that NESBA utilizes the EXACT same CR's and safety crews that the AMA does at tracks such as Brainerd, Barber, Road America, Road Atlanta, and VIR.  NESBA also uses the same CR's and safety crews as CCS, CRA, and WERA does at the other tracks as well.  

From my experience your comments are unwarranted and have no basis in reality.  You are incorrect in insinuating that NESBA employs inferior CR's at its events - completely wrong.  

One last disclaimer from me:

After I crashed in 2001 at summit, I was very moved by MARRC corner workers and their help, and I personally wrote to MARRC to thank all that helped. It was in MARRC's news section if anyone cares to go look it up.

Will will tell you, I have always been nice to corner workers, I thanked him, or whoever that came to see me in the hospital, and I am very grateful to their services.

My posts here are not to bash cornerworkers. My responses were toward one person who went beyond and choose to bash an organization that I have been involved with for 5 years, since I started riding, and made statements that were grossly untrue or skewed.

I was not going to say anything else but I read Chris' email, and found out that he threatened to damage our reputation delibrately because he was not happy with things. So I feel that I am going to repond to these things and say what I have to say, it is only fair.

I have corner workered at least 10 times prior, I have run control at a trackday. I have run crash truck. I have been involved in track cleaning.

After guys crashed in gravel, I was the one who swept the track for gravel and debris (Chris, did you not hear over the radio that Crash truck was cleaning the track?).

I appreciate everyone's help to make a track event safe and enjoyable. I thank you when I see you, and I was never rude.

Everyone who worked on Sat was invited to our grill, the cookout, the firework party. They came, and they had a grand ole time. Why don't you ask you friends who worked pitout??

I am going to keep responding to these posts because

1. it is unfair
2. it is skewed
3. I do not like Chris as a person after I read the entire correnspondence, and knowing what I know because I was a part of the track crew on sunday.

Keep on. Bash me if you wish, but I can live with me as a person, and most of you know who I am and how I am. So I am not here making up crap to make someone look bad. I am here to make sure someone doesn't tell partial stories to make TPM look bad. Which is his intention and is made WELL KNOWN before hand.

Chris, This is not about TPM and corner workers. It is about you, who is giving MARRC corner workers a bad name. Seriously.

QuoteDafan,

 you are an employee of TPM so I would expect nothing less than you to totally defend them.

Bottom line is that if you don't take care of the corner workers you'll have nothing better than the people that NESBA has. Without corner workers, as you said, you won't be able to ride.

Let's see how many corner workers you have for your next track day at Summit.

Your attempts at defending TPM did nothing short of confirming the bad attitude and lack of professionalism at TPM.

This is a public board.  Last time I checked this was still a country where people could speak their minds about bad experiences.  I don't think that's "immature" as you put it and judging from the other negative comments about TPM it's well founded.

So I'm sure you'll have a defense and counter story for each bad point brought to light about TPM but again the bottom line is still this; TREAT YOUR WORKERS RIGHT OR YOU'LL BE STANDING AROUND WONDERING WHY THERE AREN'T BIKES ON COURSE.

Will, I missed this one. We do treat our corner workers right. We pay the most out of all the orgs that we know. The entire crew was invited and welcomed to our party Sat night, free food and drink for the crew as well as everyone who was there.

We normally hire corner workers that are either our own, or from summit point.

We did not, and do not mistreat corner workers. As you said, if we did, we would not have any for our next day. well we have been running track days at summit point for 5 years or more.

You are missing the point. I am not trying hard to call someone out, but Chris' complains are somewhat unfounded, and I do not see Chris as being professional in his responses to TPM. I am more than glad to forward you the entire correspondence to you if you care to know. As quoted above, he made statements that are questionable to his credibility to him being a corner worker.

again, it is not about TPM and corner workers. It is about TPM and chris, and how he felt mistreated.

I will also be more than glad to get feedback from other corner workers that day, that no one else felt mistreated.

Ask the pit marshalls that day. Ask them did I bust my ass working that day, and did we treat them right.

Ask did he compliment on how we treat them as a work crew and they will come back and work for us again anytime.

Just ask. This whole thread of accusation is UNFAIR. and I am sticking to it.

ASK!!!!

Someone pass the popcorn. This is getting good.:D:D ;D

No, I will take care of this, I have nothing to hide in what I said to Team ProMotion. Here is the ENTIRE thread of e-mails back and forth from Linda, Glen and myself.

FOR ALL EYES TO READ! THis is the original e-mail that I sent to sales@teampromotion.com.

Glen, good day. My name is Chris Astle and I worked Turn 8 @ Summit on Sunday and my girlfriend Tina worked Turn 5.
 
The reason for this e-mail is to express my concerns, opinions and thoughts about working for your organization as a cornerworker on 7/4. I am going in my third season as a cornerworker. I am an Associate Safety Director and cornerworker for Mid-Atlantic RoadRacing Club. I have worked ReDuc Sportbike Assoc. trackdays. I am AMA Pro Marshal Certified. I have run Race Control for CCS. I love roadracing and love being on the track. I am a kick-ass cornerworker who gives my all, whether its a track day, practice session or race event. I have not seen it all, but damn close.
 
On Saturday, Tina and I were on our way to visit my brother in Inwood, WV (not even thinking about the track) and decided to take the scenic route. When I drove past Summit and saw bikes, I had to pull in and check what was going on. I arrived in the pits and saw Keith Landis and Andy Curro working Pit Out. These guys do A LOT of stuff with MARRC and are both friends of mine. It didn't take me long to learn it was a track weekend for TPM. I immediately inquired with Keith to the status of cornerworkers....Were there enough? Did he need help?. His answer to me, "We're losing 2 cornerworkers after today. One will be participating on the track and the other can't work." My passion for bikes and a willingness to help out a friend in need had me conjuring up ways to get back to the track on Sunday. I told Keith that I would talk to Tina to see if she would be willing to come back and work with me since it was a holiday.
 
Sunday morning, my alarm went off at 5:30, and Tina and I prepared ourselves for a day at the track. Through the torrential downpour on Route 7, we arrived @ Summit around 7:30. Keith instructed me to go find Linda in the registration room to sign in. When I walked in the room, I attempted to introduce myself and briefly explained why I was there. Linda asked if I was a "BSR person" and my response was no and that I was a friend of Keith's. She then told me, "Well, you'll have to talk to BSR if you're not on the schedule" I then tried to further explain that I was a friend of Keith's and he told me yesterday that 2 cornerworkers were being lost. She still insisted that I talk to BSR...at which point I turned and walked out of the room and proceeded back to the tower at Pit Out. Linda came over a few minutes later and began talking with Keith about the issue of Tina and I being there and that we weren't on the schedule and that she probably couldn't use us. After some discussion, she turned and walked away with no resolution. No thank you for coming out anyways No hang out and lets make sure that we can't use you. At that point, I was ready to get back in the car and head home for a lazy morning in bed. Keith persuaded Tina and I into hanging out for a couple minutes. About 15 minutes later, Linda came over with the sign up sheet and asked us to sign in. Her attitude came off that she wasn't really happy about it, almost as if we were an intrusion and an inconvenience to her. She didn't smile, she didn't make it a point to meet us...even though we were going to play important roles with TPM out on the track. WE FELT NO APPRECIATION FROM TPM! If it weren't for Andy, Keith & Terry.....Tina and I would have been long gone. They made up for Linda's lack of appreciation.
 
At lunch, the majority of us cornerworkers ate in the cafe....no big deal. But what botherd me, we had to come out of our own pockets for lunch. Yes, we are compensated......BUT IT'S NOT CASH AND CANNOT COVER THE EXPENSE OF LUNCH THAT DAY. We as cornerworkers render our services to you......PAY US FOR OUR SERVICES THEN!  Not 5 days later with a check!!!!!  Also, No "thank you". No "how's it going out there?" No "is there anything you need?" no "do you have water?"  NO ONE FROM TPM CAME TO CHECK ON ANY OF US AT ANY TIME!
 
I also had the pleasure of watching a dozen or so riders and control riders at the TPM trailer during lunch eating food off the grill. Every other organization I work for either cooks or buys lunch for the cornerworkers. Again, a feeling a not being appreciated.

At approx 4:10, Glen, you blew your engine in T8 leaving a nice oil spill up the back straight. While examining the situation, I tried to introduce myself to you, to which you responded, "My name is Asshole." Well, yes, I already knew that......but for you to respond to me like that and not follow it up with a real introduction was quite rude. Yeah, I know, you felt bad for what happened.....but don't be rude to me. I even covered myself with kitty litter and helped Harland with the cleanup. Did anyone else help out? Nope.....just walked up and down the track. The bike could've been taken care of quicker. I think Harland and I were done on track BEFORE the bike was even loaded into the crash truck. WHAT'S THAT!?!?!?!
 
After the cleanup, there was talk of reserving the track for an extra hour because of the mishap. Keith made a request over the radio asking if cornerworkers could stay. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!    You want us cornerworkers to go out of our way? To give you more time with no additional compensation? To give you more time when we have received nothing thus far? To give you more time when I had to pay for my own lunch? To give you more time when Linda's attitude was less than desirable? To give you more time on a holiday? You get the point. I was done. The damage had been done. I had zero interest in helping out any more.
 
Question: If the oil spill would have happened because of Joe Schmoe's bike, would you have done the same thing by extending track time or would you have called it a day?
 
Tom Warsing was delivered to Turn 8 to relieve me. I hopped in my car and proceeded over to Turn 5 to hang out with Tina since bikes were on course and no one had arrived to relieve her yet. Linda showed up a few minutes later, pulled up to the hot tub, opened her car door, poked her head out and said, "You can't stay?!?!?" My response was "No, I'm sorry". She then got out of her van, closed the door with a slam and told us to get down out of the tub. Seeing as there were BIKES ON COURSE AND IN THE TURN, I told her to come up into the tub first....in case something happened. When she got up in the tub, I asked her if she would like me to return the radio to the pits or leave it. She RUDELY replied, "Just leave it here."
 
What I have failed to mention thus far, I have made two attempts to e-mail Linda prior to this past weekend's event. Once in late 2003 and once earlier this year to let her know that I was interested in working the TPM events @ Summit. Her responses BOTH times...you need to contact BSR. I explained that I was a MARRC cornerworker and I had lots of experience with Summit, but that didn't seem to matter.
 
TPM now has 3 strikes in my book. I am thoroughly disappointed.
 
Glen, as a cornerworker, as someone who loves motorcycles and roadracing, as a member of several different racing organizations, as someone who is willing to go out of their way, I urge you.....TAKE CARE OF YOUR CORNERWORKERS! They allow YOU to do what you do. Be nice to them. Get to know them. Ask how they're doing. Ask if they need anything. And when there's an extra person in a hot tub, if they're there to help out, don't make a big deal out of it. That was my brother in the hot tub with Tina in T5 when Linda was asking who the 2 people were. He has been with MARRC longer than I have and is just as experienced as myself or Terry Reese.
 
I have gone out of my way to assist your organization...and have had nothing but bad experiences each and every time. I'm done.
 
Chris Astle

DISCLAIMER: MY THOUGHTS, OPINIONS AND SUGGESTIONS ARE THOSE OF MY OWN AND DO NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION!


That was the first e-mail sent to them...now, for their responses.

Original Message-----
From: Chris Astle
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 1:48 PM
To: sales@teampromotion.com
Subject: the straw that broke the camel's back....

From the main page......

"Party with Team Pro-Motion at Summit Point July 3rd and 4th as we celebrate the holiday and more importantly our best lap times!!!! Enjoy an array of BBQ food and drink which will be ON THE HOUSE! Bring your own bottle and live it up as we light up the nights sky with our own fireworks display. You know your living it up when you get to ride on the track and party with good friends."

Yeah......on the house for everyone EXCEPT the cornerworkers.

http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php?page_id=feature_051004  "The team's investment into rider safety will continue and will remain a top priority." This is where the injustice lies.......TPM doesn't consider cornerworkers an "investment"????? Nah......air modules.   Friggin incredible! This explains the mentality of the staff.

-----Original Message-----
From: Team Pro-Motion [mailto:sales@teampromotion.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:32 AM
To: Chris Astle
Subject: Fw: the straw that broke the camel's back....
Importance: High

Linda,

If you would please forward this to the person named Chris who feels that we don't care.

What the hell are you talking about.  Man you are a very upset person to even think that the cornerworkers aren't included as many of them ate and came over and took charge of their own lives.  Sorry but I can't change a person of your nature especially one who would even think that TPM doesn't care.

Please don't bother (but of course you wouldn't anyway) taking any more of your valuable time getting paid to work for TPM as we wouldn't want you to spend one minute with an organization who doesn't care as you say.

With utter and complete disgust, I feel for you man.

The big bad dude that doesn't care,

Glen

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Astle
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:25 AM
To: 'Team Pro-Motion'
Subject: RE: the straw that broke the camel's back....

Linda and Glen, there seems to have been a break in the lines of communication. On Sunday, ALL (and I mean all...including PA Posse) cornerworkers bought their lunches @ the Summit Point Cafe and ate at the cafe. I heard nothing from anyone indicating that I, or any other workers, were invited to the TPM grill for lunch. I also asked Keith and Andy what the deal was for lunch and both of them told me "We have to buy our own." I thought there was no need to second-guess those guys.....and it's not in my nature to go around the pits looking for handouts.

My e-mail to you indicates that I have "nature" issues? That I don't take charge of my life? If that's the case, I would have never shown up to cornerwork....much less to take 2 hours out of my day to send you an e-mail about my experience.

-----Original Message-----
From: Team Pro-Motion [mailto:sales@teampromotion.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 5:14 PM
To: Chris Astle
Subject: RE: the straw that broke the camel's back....

The Marshals were invited to our open house Saturday night only. We had some food left over, not much, and called all coaches to the trailer as we had several new staff members we wanted to introduce around. No one other than TPM staff and their spouses was invited to that. You are making a total fool of yourself on the CCS board and elsewhere. If you are trying to damage me the opposite is happening because no one would ever want to hire anyone as problematic as you and your friends.

Thanks,

Linda Rabb
General Manager

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Astle
To: sales@teampromotion.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: the straw that broke the camel's back....

I still stand behind the fact that:
 
A) I feel as though Tina and I were treated as nuisances rather than welcomed in when we showed up to work Sunday morning.
 
B) I feel as though TPM should have done something for the corner workers for lunch, after it was posted on the website that food and drink were on the house. If there were specific days, it should have been mentioned. If it wasn't all weekend (which it was posted that way), it should have been clarified....instead, it was misinterpreted.
 
C) When I informed control that I couldn't stay, a simple "Thanks for coming out today.", from you Linda, would have been nice. Instead, I felt like I got a snotty attitude when you relieved us in T5.
 
Neither of you know anything...ANYTHING about me, who I am, what I have done or what I'm capable of. And for either of you to sit back and say the things to me that have been said, goes to show the lack of professionalism of the club.
 
Once my check has been received and cashed, I would like to wash my hands of this whole ordeal and forget it ever happened. I may have over-reacted by posting what I did on the CCS board, but its history. I am ceasing from any further responses to that thread.
 
I know that TPM may be a good organization, but I have yet to be proved otherwise and stand my ground that overall, the club is unprofessional, senior management is unprofessional and that you don't give the cornerworkers what they need.

-----Original Message-----
From: Team Pro-Motion [mailto:sales@teampromotion.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 2:27 PM
To: Chris Astle
Subject: Re: the straw that broke the camel's back....

The  party was Saturday night and you were not even there but the scheduled Marshals were and had a great time.
 
You were nusances from my perspective as you were not needed as the track was staffed and I had to pull my marshals from our club to make room for you since you showed up unknow to me. Keith had the schedule and he made a mistake when he told you 2 from Saturday were leaving. Because. They did leave but I had 2 others scheduled. I was gracious enough to pull my people, who I had to pay anyway mind you, so you would not have wasted your time in coming. Stupid me! I should have simply asked you to leave and spared myself your continued and insufferable boorishness.
 
Regarding relieving you. I am general manager of Team Pro-Motion and just had to deal with a huge mess and then hustle to relieve you  who would not stay out of spite because we only pay you $75 per day and do not provide lunch. Oh we are terrible. Not to mention paying 2 on that station for pitys sake.
 
I am blocking your e-mail now as I will try everything to never hear from you again.
Thanks,
 
Linda Rabb
General Manager

QuoteGoosfrabba.....goosfrabba.......

Dafan....I was fine with you UNTIL you made the above statement. NOWHERE...AND I REPEAT NOWHERE did I threaten TPM, Linda or Glen personally NOR did I make the statement above. That quote is completely made up. As you can see....I posted every single e-mail that was exchanged between myself, Linda & Glen.

I am not one to threaten.

Get a life....don't quote the unstated....because it just might come back to haunt you....sometime.

$75 is really quite generous.  Almost $5. 25 per hour!  WOW!  What is the minimum wage these days?  Sorry.  Not meaning to complain about the money, because money is always good, no matter who you are.  But let's be real.  Even at $5.25 an hour, corner workers are still volunteers.
This whole thread does not surprise me one bit.  For many years, I worked SCCA corners for NO MONEY.  Hell, we had to pay a membership fee for the PRIVLEDGE of corner working.  I could fill ten pages with my complaints about SCCA, but why?  Here is my point.
SCCA has been losing corner workers for years.  Why has SCCA lost workers as CCS has gained them?  Is it about $50 a day, or even $75?  NO.  It's about how the org treats the workers.  Yes, corner working is a hobby.  At free, $50, or $75 a day, it had better be, because a guy could make more money mowing lawns.  Experienced workers are priceless.
It sounds like what happened here was a miscommunication at first.  It's happened to me.  I show up to a test day at Blackhawk, and Cindy already has enough workers.  OK.  So I work for free.  But Cindy apologises for the miscommunication, treats me like gold, gets me fed anyway, and in the end decides to pay me when I had agreed in the morning to work for free.  I felt appreciated.  That was worth far more than money.
It seems like Chris did not feel welcome or appreciated, and it sounds like this is the root of his gripe.  For him, things started badly and got worse.  At any point, Pro Motion could have extended an olive branch, but instead this has turned into a war.  What I read here is a complete lack of respect for the value of corner workers, and an unwillingness to be even slightly diplomatic.  I'm not impressed.

QuoteI don't understand what NESBA has to do with any of this but since you took it upon yourself to make such an absurd comment please allow me to respond.

Are you saying that NESBA uses CR's that are not at the same level of qualification/experience as TPM?  I know NESBA has utilized volunteers on a very limited basis in certain situations, mostly at Pocono.   The fact is that NESBA utilizes the EXACT same CR's and safety crews that the AMA does at tracks such as Brainerd, Barber, Road America, Road Atlanta, and VIR.  NESBA also uses the same CR's and safety crews as CCS, CRA, and WERA does at the other tracks as well.  

From my experience your comments are unwarranted and have no basis in reality.  You are incorrect in insinuating that NESBA employs inferior CR's at its events - completely wrong.  

I can relate several instances at Summit Point where we have had to call on our net for an ambulance for a crash on the Jefferson that the NESBA corner worker either didn't see or didn't know how to respond to.

I have personally WATCHED at Turn 3, a worker for NESBA on the Jefferson have a bike go down, walk onto the track with his flag, with bikes moving at race speed, to cross the track and check on the rider.

I would like to modify my statement regarding NESBA workers to specifically address workers that I have personally seen on the Jefferson Circuit at Summit Point.

Dafan,

 I have to wonder at this point what your true intentions are.  You slam chris for taking this complaint to a public board but you have no obvious problem with posting snippets from his emails to managment at TPM.  

You make some allegation about Chris making threats but I don't see that in any of the emails that he posted.  I would be very careful in how you embelish "your account" of what is going on.

Your interpretations of his emails (which you were not privy to until you decided to "check into it") are a little off base.  

This all could have been resolved with a simple apology on the part of TPM but they opted not go that route.

Chris if I were you I'd tear that check up. I don't think I'd want their money.

K3 Chris, I would like to thank you for your posts. You are hitting the nail on the head. I sometimes have a hard time getting my exact point across but you have made up where I lack.


Note to Dafan: After re-reading some of your recent posts, you are making accusations that are untrue such as threatening "to damage our reputation". Again, I want you to point out a quote from any of my e-mails where I said anything along these lines.

Also, where did I say that I DON'T believe airfences are valuable? I made a comment that I didn't think TPM treated cornerworkers as an "investement".

Dafan, you are seeing SERIOUS SERIOUS shades of brown. I strongly urge you to get your head out before you suffocate.

QuoteI can relate several instances at Summit Point where we have had to call on our net for an ambulance for a crash on the Jefferson that the NESBA corner worker either didn't see or didn't know how to respond to.

I have personally WATCHED at Turn 3, a worker for NESBA on the Jefferson have a bike go down, walk onto the track with his flag, with bikes moving at race speed, to cross the track and check on the rider.

I would like to modify my statement regarding NESBA workers to specifically address workers that I have personally seen on the Jefferson Circuit at Summit Point.

So two instances involving one track encompasses the entire NESBA organization as to the quality of CW NESBA utilizes.  NESBA goes to over 21 different race tracks, and runs close to 90 events from coast to coast and for the overwhelming majority of these events NESBA employs the exact same CW's as all of the other track organizations.  You know you kind of did a slight disservice towards the entire CW's that NESBA does use.  I fail to see how two instances, although critical, can justify or warrant your comments.  

I will go on to say that I can think of specific examples involving instances where certain situations could have been handled differently by the CW's in all levels of racing from Moto GP to club.  Most recently at the Brainerd AMA SB race at T10.  Would I base the entire quality of the CRA organization from this one indiscretion?   No, as this would not be an accurate assessment as a whole.

In short I will defend the quality of CW's that NESBA utilizes as I have worked with all of them at 17 different tracks, at well over 100 events over a period of five years.  I would ask that you be objective in your assertions.  That is all.

Also thanks for being a dedicated CW you are greatly appreciated  :)

Dafan I am sorry I did not follow up more but you had said you would contact us about deployment, as the person responsible for that I indictated I would be point of contact, I guess I should have PM'd you with my telephgone numbers(I thought I did but don't see evidence I did in my outbox PMs).

Moot point though past history and we will work to make things better in the future.

Alright everyone....

.... I think we have heard enough based on feedback that I have recieved.  If this conversation needs to continue, please take it off line.

Thanks!

Dawn   ;)

QuoteDafan I am sorry I did not follow up more but you had said you would contact us about deployment, as the person responsible for that I indictated I would be point of contact, I guess I should have PM'd you with my telephgone numbers(I thought I did but don't see evidence I did in my outbox PMs).

Moot point though past history and we will work to make things better in the future.

eric, it wasnt been you and me to set up the airfence, it was between CCS/FUSA and TPM. it was the first time, if they get the arrangement we wouldn't have any hiccups next time.

QuoteK3 Chris, I would like to thank you for your posts. You are hitting the nail on the head. I sometimes have a hard time getting my exact point across but you have made up where I lack.


Note to Dafan: After re-reading some of your recent posts, you are making accusations that are untrue such as threatening "to damage our reputation". Again, I want you to point out a quote from any of my e-mails where I said anything along these lines.

Also, where did I say that I DON'T believe airfences are valuable? I made a comment that I didn't think TPM treated cornerworkers as an "investement".

Dafan, you are seeing SERIOUS SERIOUS shades of brown. I strongly urge you to get your head out before you suffocate.

sorry about the threat thing. I was told, so it was hearsay. I don't know what else was said between you, I was just informed. so I apologize, it was not right to say unless I can back it up.

again I am not on behalf of TPM here, I didn't think your complains were founded because I would have not had the same complains if I were you.

ok? I stand by me, if you have to wonder what my intentions are then wonder. I guess it would have been easier to see if I wasn't affiliated with TPM in anyway.

at which time I would still have the same opinions as I do now.

I would like to add that I was not a part of responding to you in anyway by TPM, thats how they choose to deal with this issue.

I would not have complained. If I didn't like it in the morning, I would have went home. If I didn't like how the day went, I would have just simply finish the day and not come back.

I have nothing else to say regarding the TPM vs Chris thing.

but regard to questions to my person and my personal intentions, I am not going to stand by that.

QuoteK3 Chris, I would like to thank you for your posts. You are hitting the nail on the head. I sometimes have a hard time getting my exact point across but you have made up where I lack.


Note to Dafan: After re-reading some of your recent posts, you are making accusations that are untrue such as threatening "to damage our reputation". Again, I want you to point out a quote from any of my e-mails where I said anything along these lines.

Also, where did I say that I DON'T believe airfences are valuable? I made a comment that I didn't think TPM treated cornerworkers as an "investement".

Dafan, you are seeing SERIOUS SERIOUS shades of brown. I strongly urge you to get your head out before you suffocate.

don't make any assumptions on me, you said things, I said what I feel, don't point it at me personally. if you don't want people to have an opinion about it, don't post it.

Wow.....

Just reading the last few posts (I haven't had time to go through the whole thread) it seems like there were some misunderstandings and some disappointments on how things were handled.

Let's put it to bed boys.....

Dawn   ;)

ROFLMFAO...

Wow..... This is a good one!  I didn't know what I was missing until I actually sat & read the thread.  

The email thread says it all...

When a company dismisses someone trying to better/help them, the company suffers...

(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbr600rr.com%2Fforum%2FYaBBImages%2Flipsrsealed.gif&hash=ba7486559da1e24ff7ba11575667a971f8982fe5)

sounds like CCS/FUSA, so why are we all still here?

 In an attempt to turn things a little more positive. I've ridden with Nesba, TPM, Marrc TNT days and Reduc. As a particapant I always had a good time with any of them, but generally I tend to keep to myself and learn the track or figure out why I'm slow. All of them seemed to run an organized program, but apparently there are different things going on I know nothing about. If any cornerworkers would care to give a thumbs up to any group for running a safe, professional program. That might be useful.

QuoteI can relate several instances at Summit Point where we have had to call on our net for an ambulance for a crash on the Jefferson that the NESBA corner worker either didn't see or didn't know how to respond to.

I have personally WATCHED at Turn 3, a worker for NESBA on the Jefferson have a bike go down, walk onto the track with his flag, with bikes moving at race speed, to cross the track and check on the rider.

I would like to modify my statement regarding NESBA workers to specifically address workers that I have personally seen on the Jefferson Circuit at Summit Point.

I'm really dissapointed with this statement. Really. My name is Dutch and I am the Mid Atlantic director for NESBA. I run all the Summit Point events for the club. The corner workers being used at all of our events are supplied by the track. NESBA pays Summit Point for the use of their corner workers. We would gladly and happily use MARCC workers at all of our events if that was an option presented to us. In the future I would appreciate it if you would find out the facts before posting. If you don't believe me I'm sure Maria could clarfiy this for me. EmerWill I know who  you are from my involvement as a race official with another org as well as my involvement with NESBA. I had no idea you held us in such low regard. Please make sure you are not burdened with working any more of our events if the opportunity should arise.

Man, this thread is getting out of control.  Free Love!  Free Love!  Peace, man!  With liberty and justice for all!  God loves you!

I agree.  

And I am adult enough to admit I made an ass of myself.  I shouldn't have thrown NESBA under the bus just to make a point.  

I also shouldn't have assumed that NESBA takes anyone they can get to be corner workers(that was my fault for listening to what someone else told me instead of checking it out for myself).

I am sure someone gave Jim and call and told him he better come check the CCS message board cuz some guy was trashin him.  Well now it looks like I have egg on my face.

QuoteI agree.  

And I am adult enough to admit I made an ass of myself.  I shouldn't have thrown NESBA under the bus just to make a point.  

I also shouldn't have assumed that NESBA takes anyone they can get to be corner workers(that was my fault for listening to what someone else told me instead of checking it out for myself).

I am sure someone gave Jim and call and told him he better come check the CCS message board cuz some guy was trashin him.  Well now it looks like I have egg on my face.

Apology accepted and no ill will on my end. I'll have a cold one waiting for you in my pits at the next event   8)

QuoteIn an attempt to turn things a little more positive........ If any cornerworkers would care to give a thumbs up to any group for running a safe, professional program. That might be useful.

Okay, I have worked two ReDuc events, once @ BeaveRun and once @ Summit. They are stand up folks. I enjoyed myself thoroughly both times....except for my small case of Cat Scratch Fever while @ BeaveRun. My hands were so swollen I could barely get them in my Mechanix gloves.  :-/

MARRC Track Days? Are you kidding me? I had NO IDEA they did em too! I'll have to check them out sometime.   ::)

Haven't worked a NESBA event, but I'm sure it would be enlightening.

I've also done a couple of CCS track days @ Summit...and we all know how THOSE CCS folks are.  ;D

Ok R6 Philly,  

I am a member of Team Pro-Motion and have been satisfied with their track days in comparison to many other organizations.  I am a licensed CCS racer and a pace rider for other organizations l  I was there July track day.  First of all, you don't need to rag on the corner workers at all....whether they left you shorthand or not.  If you have something you weren't pleased with.  You would talk to them as they deserve to be talked to, adults.  Use constructive critisim here, don't just bash on them....no one deserves that!
Secondly, thanks for the airfences and making them using for CCS/FUSA.  CCS/FUSA are great organizations but tend to be a little lazy when it comes to certain things.  My boyfriend set up those airfences on Friday or Thursday.
Third, if the owner of team promotion blow his engine in turn 8, you don't ride the remainder of the track to turn into the pits.  you get the hell of the track right away.  you don't leave oil there from t8 to the freaking pits.  That's going to stay there awhile and now I got something extra fun to look for at my next racing event. I don't care who you are, you get off the track.


Sam #197
CBRF4 269 is my boyfriend, it went under his account as a default on this computer.

I think we should just let this thread die!   ;)  There is no need for any more public discussions about what had happened in whoever's view.  This public discussion can only do more harm than good!  I am speaking from persoal experience!   :-[  

I too saw things differently during the WERA Cycle Jam VIR event on Saturday although most disagreed.  That discussion turned out to be a disaster especially for me personally (some of you knew it already).   :'(  My intend was to air my opinion/view and help WERA improve their service although Mongo/Sean is firm on believeing that WERA scored a 10 on a scale from 1 to 10 in running that event (I still disagree).  Anyway, it would be better if I had chosen to speak to Mongo/Sean and/or any WERA officials about my complaints/dissatisfaction about it to help them to see what some customers see differently and perhap an opportunity for them to improve their service to the customers.  

Anyway, no matter what really happened, let's all hope that TPM will be better and keep improving (can never be too good!)!    ;)