About 2 months ago, I was involved in an auto accident. Long story short, I was "waved out" into traffic by someone stopped at a light. Well, I got hit in the turn lane. I recieved a ticket for failure to yield. Anyways, it totaled my brand new 2004 VW GTI. The girl (17) who hit me was driving a 1994 Dodge Spirit with 178,414 miles on it. Long story short, she is now suing me for almost $5,000.00 to repair her car. According to MI no-fault law, I am responsible for the damage to her car. The accident really isn't my fault because I was waved out by another car telling me it was clear when it was not, but legally it is my fault because I didn't yield to oncoming traffic. I'm going to court to fight the ticket tomorrow. Anyways, this stupid lady honestly thinks that I am going to give her $5K for a car that has a blue book value in "excellent" condition which it is NOT (all rusted and beat up) of $1200.00 How stupid can people be. Her car isn't worth $1K. Does she honestly think I am going to give her $5K for a car that barely runs because some body shop estimated damages at $5K. I'd consider giving her bluebook, but $5K, common. Why the hell are people so sue happy? I'm willing to take responsibility, but common. Hell, my insurance company only has to give her $500.00 legally. She only had PLPD isurance on her car.
Rant over >:(
Any attorney's in the house?
Mi "no fault" means that your OWN insurance covers damages to YOUR car...so her insurance should be covering her, unless she is suing you because she was uninsured?
QuoteMi "no fault" means that your OWN insurance covers damages to YOUR car...so her insurance should be covering her, unless she is suing you because she was uninsured?
If she was uninsured, then she is going to jail. It's illegal to not have insurance in MI.
I'd try and be happy that she's not trying to sue you for $1,000,000 for pain & suffering...
QuoteThe accident really isn't my fault because I was waved out by another car telling me it was clear when it was not
WRONG, it is your fault. This is why I don't "wave" cars out anymore. I only let them out if they turn in front of me going in the same direction I am travelling.
QuoteI'd try and be happy that she's not trying to sue you for $1,000,000 for pain & suffering...
She really can't. Not only was she not hurt, but also declined to have the ambulance personell on scence "look at her" just in case. This is written on the police report, and she also signed a waiver saying she was fine for the ambulance people. Then, there were 5 witness' that saw everything. They are coming to my court date tomorrow on their own will to testify infront of the judge that I was waved into traffic. The guy that waved me is one of them. Furthermore, if she even thinks of filing that kind of suit, I will counter suit, and bring in the cops for investigation as to why she is trying to commit insurance fraud. If you think that she can come "later" and say my neck hurts or some B.S., I'm sure she'll have to go to see a doctor first, and if she has health insurance and they pay for the visits, I'm sure her insurance company wants to hear about the false claim. She doesn't wanna play with me. I'm a rotten bastard when people mess with me. I'll ruin her 17 year old life. She doesn't know the people I know, nor have the common sense to play this game. I can gaurantee that one. Hell, she told the cops herself that her car barely runs. I'm sure that will be intersting in court when I put that cop on the stand to testify that. I've learned to shut my mouth and listen to others, she is gonna learn that the hard way. She ran her mouth too much at the scene and made to many mistakes to try this. Too many people saw it and heard it. ;)
QuoteWRONG, it is your fault. This is why I don't "wave" cars out anymore. I only let them out if they turn in front of me going in the same direction I am travelling.
I don't disagree with that. Morally, it wasn't an accident that was my fault other than I listened when somone told me it was clear. The cop called it a "good samaritin accident" and told me to "fight the ticket he is going to write me because he's not coming to court, if I know what he means." We'll see if he shows tomorrow. Legally, it's my fault. I'm not saying that. I'd be willing to pay her insurance deductable, or the actual blue book of the car. I'll take responsibility and say it's my fault, not a problem. But, I'm sure as hell not giving her $5K for a car that isn't worth $1K. That's out of the question.
QuoteI don't disagree with that. Morally, it wasn't an accident that was my fault other than I listened when somone told me it was clear. The cop called it a "good samaritin accident" and told me to "fight the ticket he is going to write me because he's not coming to court, if I know what he means." We'll see if he shows tomorrow. Legally, it's my fault. I'm not saying that. I'd be willing to pay her insurance deductable, or the actual blue book of the car. I'll take responsibility and say it's my fault, not a problem. But, I'm sure as hell not giving her $5K for a car that isn't worth $1K. That's out of the question.
In MI, if a cop doesn't show up to court when you fight a ticket, the case is dismissed. Does that mean my "fault" in the accident is dismissed too?
QuoteWRONG, it is your fault. This is why I don't "wave" cars out anymore. I only let them out if they turn in front of me going in the same direction I am travelling.
amen.. just cause they waive you out.. its YOU driving not the person waiving you out. You are responsible, period. Friend of mine had the same thing happen to him. "they waived me out" is no excuse. I as well never tell someone the coast is clear. I leave room and let them decide.
Right, I accept that. But what she wants is crazy. She's crazy in having an attorney sending a letter demanding $5,000.00 or face legal action. Hell, I already left him a voice mail (the attorney) and told him to schedule a court date.
Dude. Don't get so bent out of shape over it. This IS your fault. I understand the dynamics of the accident, but it ends up being your fault. It's like turning left in front of a vehicle approaching you who has his left signal on. You're thinking he/she is going to turn left, so you turn in front of them. However, you don't realize that they've been driving with their left signal on for the last 20 miles... Your fault...
Go to court with evidence of the cars value and insurance. Take that approach.
DO NOT try to place blame or deny fault, or you'll dig a hole for yourself...
What is this "waving-out" business, I've never heard of it...you mean..if you are at a 4 way stop or something? Greg, please explain...
I'm someone that deals with my actions and faults. For instance, 2 years ago, I caused an accident at Gingerman speedway. Long story short, I went in way too hot and took out a guy. He wasn't hurt, but it broke up his bodywork and other parts. Well, even though it's racing, since it was totally my fault, not only did I give him the standard apology, but I also gave him a check for the body work, clip on's and rearsets I caused damage to. He didn't want to take it, because he felt that it's just racing, but I demanded he did. My error of flying into the turn way to hot trying to outbrake a pack of 6 bikes :)cost me over $1,000.00 I felt that was fair, and I learned from my mistake.
*WAIVER*
This doesn't mean you guys should try to get me so excited that I cause another accident and have to buy you new bodywork :P
QuoteWhat is this "waving-out" business, I've never heard of it...you mean..if you are at a 4 way stop or something? Greg, please explain...
All the traffic around me was stopped at a red light. I was making a left, so both lanes of cars that would be blocking the driveway I was sitting in stopped before the drive to let me out so I could make my left turn. The two cars that were letting me out both "waived" me to go because I could make a left in clear traffic. Some how, they didn't see the car flying down the turning lane.
I gotcha...you were pulling out into traffic from a driveway... and the line of cars waiting at the light
obstructed your view? Were you backing out?
Either way, tough break. Did she actually file a lawsuit against you? Goodluck.
QuoteI gotcha...you were pulling out into traffic from a driveway... and the line of cars waiting at the light
obstructed your view? Were you backing out?
Either way, tough break. Did she actually file a lawsuit against you? Goodluck.
No, I was pulling forward making a left. It's a 4 lane highway with a turning lane. The cars in 2 lanes stopped to let me out. She was flying down the turning lane and hit me (drivers side.)
She hasn't filed suit yet, but her attorney sent me a letter demanding $5K or they will file suit within 10 days.
Dude, i understand your frustration, but Jeff is right, go to court with facts, and nothing more. They won't allow it anyhow. For the record, she's 17, right? She's not going to be rational the way an adult would be. She's scared, sees no way of getting the value of her car paid for, (I'm sure if she had insurance, they told her the value of her vehicle, and that she will get that amount minus the deductable), thus YOU (in her 17 yr old brain) will have to cover the cost of replacing her car.
She's going to get a civics lesson, though. You go to court, state your case:
I'm (meaning you) at fault
She said she was ok and denied any medical attention
Take responsibilty
Offer a check on the spot for blue book value of her car. ($1200)
No more, no less.
Let the judge decide, then let it go.
QuoteShe hasn't filed suit yet, but her attorney sent me a letter demanding $5K or they will file suit within 10 days.
Send a letter back offering the value of the car, and include affidavids from your witnesses and the accident report. If she takes it, she will only get the lesser amount, minus attorney's fees.
That's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm just gonna tell her attorney that I will see her in court. Then, I'll go take pictures of her car, showing all the rust, cracked back window (not caused by the accident) and how crappy her car is even before the accident. Call all the witness' in from the accident to the civil suit, and then tell the judge it's my fault, but the amount her attorney is demanding is 9 times more than the car is actually worth, and let him decides. Anyone with common sense will see the pics of her car and know it's a piece of crap. If the judge awards her the $5K, then I appeal it to a higher court. I'm not offering her anything right now. I'll spend $100.00 and have her car professionally appraised under the assumption of no accident damage, and see what it's actual market value is. I think she'll be lucky IF she gets $1K out of the deal. 17 years old or not, she's playing hardball. Well, she threw the pitch by calling a lawyer. She has my number and could have called me and I would have willingly given her the fair value of her car. Now, she screwed herself. I'm not giving her anything without a court order to do so. Is it my fault regarding the accident, YES.
I see 2 issues here.
1. The fault of the accident. (You admitted it's basically yours....and from your past racing story...seem to be an honorable guy.)
2. Value of her vehicle. She's 17 years old. Probably saved up for it....can't afford another newer car.
So think about the value of her car, the fact that she evidently did nothing wrong to cause this accident, and that she's no longer got transportation. Then factor in the stupid/young factor. Probably she figured that going to a lawyer was in her best interest.
The lawyer knows that if he gets involved in any way...he's going to get some money. (30% pobably....for writing a letter only is my guess.) She probably doesn't realize that talking to you would have been in her best interest....instead of a lawyer.
Try talking to her...calmly and reasonably...with the Kelly Blue Book information printed out in front of you. Mention the fact that she had no injuries to use against you. So it's basically only a loss of property claim....which she is NOT going to get 5K for....and her lawyer knows it. If blue book is 1200 then she will probably only get 900 after said lawyer if she goes to court.
QuoteI see 2 issues here.
1. The fault of the accident. (You admitted it's basically yours....and from your past racing story...seem to be an honorable guy.)
2. Value of her vehicle. She's 17 years old. Probably saved up for it....can't afford another newer car.
So think about the value of her car, the fact that she evidently did nothing wrong to cause this accident, and that she's no longer got transportation. Then factor in the stupid/young factor. Probably she figured that going to a lawyer was in her best interest.
The lawyer knows that if he gets involved in any way...he's going to get some money. (30% pobably....for writing a letter only is my guess.) She probably doesn't realize that talking to you would have been in her best interest....instead of a lawyer.
Try talking to her...calmly and reasonably...with the Kelly Blue Book information printed out in front of you. Mention the fact that she had no injuries to use against you. So it's basically only a loss of property claim....which she is NOT going to get 5K for....and her lawyer knows it. If blue book is 1200 then she will probably only get 900 after said lawyer if she goes to court.
Well, get this. After further research, and looking up the law in MI, she is only entitled $500.00 from my insurance company, and not a penny more. This is per my attorney. She can attempt to come after me personally, but my attorney said that the case will get thrown out before we even get infront of a judge. He told me to let them file, and not even go to court with an attorney. Here's MI No-Fault Law:
Damages up to $500.00 to motor vehicles, to the extent that the damages are not covered by insurance. An action for damages pursuant to this subdivision shall be conducted in compliance with subsection (4).
QuoteWell, get this. After further research, and looking up the law in MI, she is only entitled $500.00 from my insurance company, and not a penny more. This is per my attorney. She can attempt to come after me personally, but my attorney said that the case will get thrown out before we even get infront of a judge. He told me to let them file, and not even go to court with an attorney. Here's MI No-Fault Law:
Damages up to $500.00 to motor vehicles, to the extent that the damages are not covered by insurance. An action for damages pursuant to this subdivision shall be conducted in compliance with subsection (4).
OK...sounds like you are covered. So then what are your plans? Laugh at her and say...best you get from me is $500? Or...best you can legally get from me is $500....and I'll give you $X.xx since it was my fault and I feel bad? (Or....Screw you...sending a lawyer after me???)
QuoteOK...sounds like you are covered. So then what are your plans? Laugh at her and say...best you get from me is $500? Or...best you can legally get from me is $500....and I'll give you $X.xx since it was my fault and I feel bad? (Or....Screw you...sending a lawyer after me???)
Actually, I'm not gonna say a word. I'm going to send a letter back to her attorney saying in a polite way "see you in court asshat."
I'll let her attorney think I'm a scared idiot, and then hit them with everything infront of a judge. Also, my insurance company already paid her the $500.00 3 weeks ago, but I have a feeling that her car is officially totaled, she had PLPD insurance with no collision coverage, and is now grasping for a way to buy a new car, and $500.00 isn't going to cut it. I kind of feel bad for her, but I kind of don't. I feel bad that she doesn't have a car, but to me, she's going about it the wrong way by hiring some sleeze bag attorney to try and "intimidate" me into giving her $5K. If she would have contacted me, I would've given her blue book because it was my fault, and I feel bad, but now..... it depends how I feel when we go to court.
If for some reason the judge feels bad when she starts crying in court, then I'll throw the blue book thing into the loop, but otherwise, I'll point out that she has already been paid in accordance to the laws of the State of Michigan. Anything else is personal liability, and since she was not hurt, she gets nothing. I don't wanna be a p@ick, but I don't like getting messed with. I'm reasonable, but throw a fastball at me, and I'm throwing a nuke back at you.
Dude I was in a simalar situation, I drive a tractor and trailor for a living. One day a lady pulled out in front of me from a side street, of course I couldn't stop nailed her in the side. She complains to the cop that I didn't yeild the right of way, but it was on a 2 lane highway. Anyway make a long story short the cop found her at fault, she sued anyway the same 5000 for a dodge neon( imagine the value of that). But to get to the point, call your insurance company immediatly, contact an attorney immediatly, DO NOT contact the opposing attorney whatsoever, it is just a ploy to see if you will pay. DO NOT sign anything until your attorney sees it. Please heed these warnings as a owner operator I can tell you these things from first hand experience. Please contact insurance and attorney ,keep copies of EVERYTHING , even phone calls if you can. If they contact you again, tell them to contact your insurance or attorney, I'm telling you say NOTHING to them. Good luck with everything.
Like I said...the purpose of a "no fault" insurance state is that your own insurance covers your damages...not that of the other person. This is ideal when the other person has little or no insurance ...
QuoteI'm someone that deals with my actions and faults. For instance, 2 years ago, I caused an accident at Gingerman speedway. Long story short, I went in way too hot and took out a guy. He wasn't hurt, but it broke up his bodywork and other parts. Well, even though it's racing, since it was totally my fault, not only did I give him the standard apology, but I also gave him a check for the body work, clip on's and rearsets I caused damage to. He didn't want to take it, because he felt that it's just racing, but I demanded he did. My error of flying into the turn way to hot trying to outbrake a pack of 6 bikes :)cost me over $1,000.00 I felt that was fair, and I learned from my mistake.
Wow, that's very cool of you. Is this standard practice in club racing circles - covering the damage to another bike caused in a racing incident?
This was at the 2001 WERA round at Gingerman? Who was the guy you took out, just out of curiosity, I had a buddy get taken out at Gingerman big time.
QuoteWow, that's very cool of you. Is this standard practice in club racing circles - covering the damage to another bike caused in a racing incident?
This was at the 2001 WERA round at Gingerman? Who was the guy you took out, just out of curiosity, I had a buddy get taken out at Gingerman big time.
Uhm.. not standard practice as far as I'm aware. No, it wasn't a WERA race. It was a private track day, but we were still racing. There was just no checkered flag ;D I attempted/tried to pass 6 slower bikes in turn 3, and uhm.. cause a wreck. I didn't dump it, but the guy that did I kinda stuffed. They were on the outside, and I took the inside. 7 of us went in, 6 made it out. I managed to scare the hell out of myself and the others though.
Quote Who was the guy you took out, just out of curiosity, I had a buddy get taken out at Gingerman big time.
Fred Wachewski (sp?) on a 900/929RR. He doesn't/didn't race back then.
WERA had a round at Gingerman in 01' ???
Nevermind, found it. 8)
QuoteIt was a private track day, but we were still racing. There was just no checkered flag ;D
Wow, you took somebody out at a track day??!? I'm a noob too, but trackdays and racing are two pretty different things from what I've seen. Was he a buddy of yours or something? I'd be tempted to kick some butt if a guy took me out at a trackday.
QuoteWow, you took somebody out at a track day??!? I'm a noob too, but trackdays and racing are two pretty different things from what I've seen. Was he a buddy of yours or something? I'd be tempted to kick some butt if a guy took me out at a trackday.
Yeah, but this wasn't your normal track day. First it was private, second, everyone was racing. There just wasn't a green flag dropping or a trophy involved. 14 of us were racing at the track day. It was near lunch time, so we decided to have a quick race before lunch. Everyone knew what was up, or nobody would have been going at the pace we were and pulling the stuff we were. ;D Kinda like a freindly crap talking rights race. He really wasn't mad that he went down, and what I did could be a semi-clean pass. I passed 5 of them clean, but he came over into my line and ran out of room and ended up going down. Still, I felt bad because I crossed the line. So, I paid for it.
Uh, yeah. I've got to call bullshit on this. Corner, you sound like you have serious issues on several levels. Exactly what color is the air on your planet?
Free advice: shut your pie hole. If you are facing pending legal action, your attorney should have counseled you against discussing the case with anyone, especially blabbing about it on the freakin internet. Get a grip.
Wahooo, new bodywork and rearsets for everyone!!! ;D
Yeah, the attorney and a $5k demand is a common bluff; Overstating damages and reaping the fat check is an attorney's job. Unfortunately too many people will freeze in fear and pay up. Good luck in court. How'd it turn out?
QuoteUh, yeah. I've got to call bullshit on this. Corner, you sound like you have serious issues on several levels. Exactly what color is the air on your planet?
Free advice: shut your pie hole. If you are facing pending legal action, your attorney should have counseled you against discussing the case with anyone, especially blabbing about it on the freakin internet. Get a grip.
Well said, Bernie!