I came in 2nd place in the GTO Am race Sun at Jennings. When I asked about claiming the prize money I was told, "We don't pay amateurs, we never have."!?!? So why am I looking at the 2004 CCS PURSE BREAKDOWN V3.pdf document that says I won 120 dollars?
Also, it looks like I did everything right on my contingency...all except dunlop. It says I have to register with them. What does that mean, and how do I register with them? I assume it's too late to do so now?
Remember...it's CCS! Like Duh! :P
Well, CCS has an official document posted on their website, so damnit...I WANT MY MONEY! ;D
QuoteWell, CCS has an official document posted on their website, so damnit...I WANT MY MONEY! ;D
Too late. Your money has been donated to the airfence fund ;D
LOL ;D
WWAHHHHHHH!!!!
I'm not sure, but the Florida Region CCS is owned by Henry Degow, and some of their rules are different than the CCS owned regions like MW, SW, GP, etc. Florida and LRRS have some different rules.
Registering for Dunlop? Use Michelins...LOL!
Dave, this wasn't just Florida though. This was SE regional combined. I'm racing under the SE region. Who do I need to call about this? I mean, there's a document on CCS's website, so I'm holding CCS to that.
Ya know, if I could get a set of Michelin's for 265 bux...then maybe I'd be using them. ;) Considering they both pay out the same exact contingency...I think I know which one I'll use. LOL
they didnt pay any money last season?? Expert GTU paid..
QuoteYa know, if I could get a set of Michelin's for 265 bux...then maybe I'd be using them. ;) Considering they both pay out the same exact contingency...I think I know which one I'll use. LOL
Remember that when you slide around and highside because the Dunlop's grip worth sh$t and your spending the money on new bodywork instead of tires ::) ;D :P
Quotethey didnt pay any money last season?? Expert GTU paid..
That's cause all the novice money went twards the airfence fund. Duh ! ;D :P
Clay, from what I've been seeing, AM racers wont get $$ now. But thats just what I heard.
So I guess no one on here knows the answer. Who at CCS should I contact about this?
Rob, I asked this specific question before, and Super_Dave's answer was, GT still pays cash, GP pays certificates.
Interesting.
I got paid in certs for a 2nd place finish in Am GTU at Daytona a few weeks ago. Daytona was a SE event, wasn't it? And last time I checked, GTU and GTO had the same payouts.
Maybe they are only paying out Am classes at FUSA weekends?
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You might try Linda or Tiffiney first, or Nicole.
Heather
even though it was a s.e.,fl. combined event the fl region rules takes pressident.fl does not pay am. purses.thats why it was a one day event and not a 2 day,it's how henry runs his events...on the flip side henry does make a big deal of getting on the box by having a trophy for first place(not a stupid $10.00 plaque)and 1st thru 5th get presented their awards at the end of the day in front of a crowd(not picking it up on your way out the gate) 8)
Yup, what hooter said. I called Linda and she explained that to me. Kinda sux IMO, since they say it's a "CCS" race...but it's really not. It'd be nice if they posted that information somewhere, since they're web page is now basically a lie. I guess my "amateur" finishes really are meaningless. :( Not mad at Henry or anything, it'd just be nice to know that.
Quote I guess my "amateur" finishes really are meaningless. QuoteNo not really. You won't be thinking that way if you get white plates next year. That's when the drama starts. ;D
Told you your money went to the airfence fund. Didn't believe me? ;D
HAHA, well, if it REALLY did goto the airfence fund, I'd be happy. I know someday the airfence might come in handy for me. ;D LOL
Anyhow, I'm not overly mad...it's not like I'm doing this to make money that's for sure!!!! I just hate it when one person says one thing and the truth is another. This information needs to be posted somewhere.
I know all to well that this is just practice for when I get my white plates.
QuoteKinda sux IMO, since they say it's a "CCS" race...but it's really not. It'd be nice if they posted that information somewhere, since they're web page is now basically a lie.
IMO all regions should follow the same rules. Or at least post the information and make it offical! This is crap. I got 4th which would have paid a little. >:(
CCS needs to post this about combined regionals.
How could you show up at a race and not know who is running it? It is Henry's race and it is sanctioned by CCS. Doesn't mean all the same rules apply. You paid him, you should know it isn't a regular CCS weekend.
You couldn't figure that out when they only had races on Sunday... when the GTO race was only 8 laps... when they don't have all the same classes... when the starting procedure is completely different... and when Henry says at the rider's meeting things are run differently?
Ask in person at the track, don't take info off the website for the final word.
QuoteHow could you show up at a race and not know who is running it? It is Henry's race and it is sanctioned by CCS. Doesn't mean all the same rules apply. You paid him, you should know it isn't a regular CCS weekend.
You couldn't figure that out when they only had races on Sunday... when the GTO race was only 8 laps... when they don't have all the same classes... when the starting procedure is completely different... and when Henry says at the rider's meeting things are run differently?
Ask in person at the track, don't take info off the website for the final word.
It was my first race....Bash me all you want...I'm ignorant on the all the details and only know what is posted on the ccs site ...I knew it was different (combined SE/FL) but the specific differences were not mentioned in the riders meeting. Nothing about AM purses. ...I'm in SE. Now I know what to expect at the next Jennings race. I still say all regions should be consistant with each other.
+1
It was my first race, how was I supposed to know it was any different? It said it was a CCS race. I got a CCS rulebook when I post-registered. All of my forms said "CCS" on them.
Like I said, I'm not mad at Henry. But I really think the information should be posted somewhere.
Did you mention that the entry fee should be more since you thought it was a purse class when you registered? ::)
Considering all races were shorter than normal, I thought that was the reason why. It still cost me 50 bux per race instead of 50, then 30. Thanx for the ::) btw... ::)
Am I wrong though? Where does it say in my registration ANYWHERE that Florida is not really a CCS event? ??? Since I'm CCS SE, why do I fall under Florida rules when I'm still racing a SE event (even if it's combined)? It's just some things that I think need to be cleared up. I'd just like to see a footnote somewhere because what's obvious to some people isn't to others.
Regardless of who or what, you've learned.
Racing Lesson #1: It is going to cost you for your screw ups, both on and off track. REGARDLESS WHO'S FAULT IT IS !
;) ;D
Racing Lesson #2, it's going to cost you no matter what. ;D
QuoteRacing Lesson #2, it's going to cost you no matter what. ;D
Your learning grasshoppa 8) ;D
QuoteHow could you show up at a race and not know who is running it?
Well I showed up at Gingerman in 2002 for what I though (according to the schedule) was a CCS race. Well GLRRA was there also. Guess whos rules we had to follow? They told me I couldnt run supersport unless I had Pirelli or Metzlers. HAd to have the header bolts wires, couldnt race in the one I wanted due to the 50 bike limit. All this for a supposed CCS weekend (which I didnt eve race. Towed the trailer 5 hrs each way for naught. >:(
How are we suppose to know what regions follow what rules at each race unless it's offically posted somewhere?
So does the SE region follow the CCS rules? I mean will SE pay AMs? Hell, do any regions pay AM?
Yes, I asked Linda that. The SE region is "really CCS", so it pays. The only races that don't are the Florida region races...so all of our races at Jennings.
would not bother me if they would just take jennings off the SE tracks and add a roebling and a vir or something else ..or hell even add road atlanta
Yes jennings should not be a SE track. Put CMP back in the line up. CCS, ask us, the SE riders for a vote to put CMP back on the schedule.
Hell, I'm ALL for that James!!!! (Cause it's 45 minutes from my place instead of 7.5 hours!)
Clay, I have been trying for years to get CCS to formally print the rule differences in their handbook, website, newsletter ect but to no avail....why they refuse to inform those who support CCS is beyond all logic.
CCS RACES held by HDpromoshas never paid Am. and will not ever pay them this is the true insentive to stop sand bagging as a amature and step up to expert.
I see the 3-4 year amatures in southeast like to be paid and that is just b.s.
just my .002
:) 68
QuoteCCS RACES held by HDpromoshas never paid Am. and will not ever pay them this is the true insentive to stop sand bagging as a amature and step up to expert.
I see the 3-4 year amatures in southeast like to be paid and that is just b.s.
just my .002
:) 68
Some people aren't ready, or may never be ready for Expert. Still doesn't mean that shouldn't get paid. What's the difference between Expert and Amature. Seconds on the clock. Either way, both Experts and Amatures are STILL SPENDING the EXACT SAME amount of money to race more or less. Yes, an Expert will need more tires in a season, but a serious amature will still have to come out of pocket as much as an expert. So, why deny the amature his/her hard earned contigency cash? Only difference between an amature and expert bike is the time it takes to make a complete lap, and length of experiance. Either way, both bikes need:
Oil
Gas
Tires
Ect.
So why deny the amature? Not everyone Cherry Picks. Some people don't have the talent, and some don't belong that ARE expert. Regardless, everyone is spending the cash to race, regardless of the motivation behind it. Last time I checked, not that many racers show up to make a living ;) If manufacturers won't support the sport in all classes, then why support them.
How about this. NO CONTINGENCY for anyone NOT AMA, FIM, WSBK, or MotoGP. How would the experts feel then?
I could understand maybe no support for 1st year novice, but after that, it's unacceptable IMHO.
I'm off now, to buy a new Rolex with the $20.00 Silkolene certificate that I won last year, the ONLY contigency money I won infact ;) ;D
AND ALOS....
How about this. Let's all find the product manufacturers that DO NOT support amature racers/non-expert. Meaning:
1. If they don't support amature class club racing.
2. If they don't support club racing (i.e. AMA only, ect.)
and then, let's ban their product. Let's see how far they get with only AMA level support of their products. On the buisness side of it, being an AMA sponsor gives "better" exposure than club level.. BUT... Club racers pay the light bill. How many sets of Rearsets, Trackfairings, ect. can a Factory Level team need? Think that American Suzuki gives a rats ass who supplies the bodywork? Gee, they don't have billions of $ in the bank or anything. Same difference. Let's take this for an example:
Bob's Track Bodies (fictional company) does NOT support amature club racers. So, amature club racers buy Chuck's Track Bodies because they do. Now, Bob's Track Bodies is going to live on the support they provide and exposure they get from AMA. How long will Bob's Track Bodies be around?
As far as race org's not paying out, there's not too much you can do I guess, but manufacturers need to step up and give US A REASON to use their stuff.
On a serious note, think of this:
Sharkskinz costs let's say $800.00 a full set.
Hot Bodies costs let's say $450.00 a full set.
Without arguing the crashability point, which is kind of mute, because they will all break in a crash sooner or later, I am going to support the one that does support club level racing.
Good god why have we gone from a purse paying race to talking about contingencys? No amateurs shouldnt get paid purses why cause there are a crap load of life long ams (especially on this board) ;D who will do everything to stay am therefore sandbagging so they can get paid. Also as a AM your biggest goal should be white plates so you can earn the money. Last year in was a 1st year Am i got all my contingency Pirelli ,VP,EBC...etc Its your own fault if you dont receive them sometimes you have to call, sometimes you have to finish good enough and maybe there wasnt enough riders in your class. DAmn if i was getting paid last year as a Am i wouldve been making money doing this stuff or breakin even. I agree with the way Florida does it could be why we dont have alot of sandbaggin multi year AMs in are region. The reason why you get paid at Daytona as a Am is its not a FL race its all regions combined.
O.K. From what I understand is the s.e. region is combined w/fl to give them more race dates ( i could be wrong) also the word amatuer means just that! or are you guys not fast enough to step up and collect the dough in ex.!!! Quit B----ing! and race! the only people that dont like fl ccs are non fl riders go figure! you can come play w/ us any time.
my .002
Quote Good god why have we gone from a purse paying race to talking about contingencys? No amateurs shouldnt get paid purses why cause there are a crap load of life long ams who will do everything to stay am therefore sandbagging so they can get paid. Also as a AM your biggest goal should be white plates so you can earn the money.
Good, Scuba...
Yes, the money making should be restricted to certain categories of riders.
It was not so long ago that there was NO purse money for amateurs at all. Contingency money was very, very restricted, and really was only for experts in purse or manufacturer contingency races. The extention of that now is great.
As for companies that don't offer contingency, well, often they are upstart companies that can't afford to offer such things. You've got to make some money to offer anything special like that...and racers, well, they are always looking for a deal and most can't deliver on all their sponsorship promises...after all, most road racers only race for about two to two and a half years.
Thanks Super dave ill have to come and meet you at RA i didnt have a chance at daytona.
Well if you want to get technical...we are ALL amateurs even the experts.... the correct term would be novice for yellow plates because all club racing is amateur racing...
No, sportsman type racing like CCS, WERA, etc is ProAm racing. There is really nothing other than the amount of points and someone buying an AMA Pro or FUSA license vs someone that has an expert license in CCS, WERA, WSMC, WMRRA, MRA, etc.
I will be at RA, Steve.
My whole ametuer year last season when ever i won a race i thought "wow thats cool I just won, but there is a whole other group of guy in the expert class that are faster than me. I cant wait to race them to see how I do." That is the point of the AM class. Henry pays out $2000 cash in the shoot out thats open to experts only and $200 cash in the GT races to the experts. If the guys want the CASH step it up and get out of the AM ranks, I DID. You should only stay AM for your first complete year especailly if you've had success as an ameutuer. I understand that some guy may not be fast enough to move up and for saftey reason they stay down and thats cool, but they dont desive to take cash that I could be winning. The promoters would have to raise the entry fees to generate the cash for the winnings. Hell even the Product Contingency is higher in the Expert classes, and for that mater it higher in the 1000 class than the light weight class and you dont see us WHINNING about that.
WERA doesn't even payout for anything and your bitching about HENRY again. WHATEVER get out of the AM class and race for the CASH or SHUT UP!!!!!
Michael, you got right as far as I'm concerned. But let me correct you on our Expert Purses: GTO, GTU and GT Lights pay $500. each. The Unlimited Expert pays $2,000. What we are dealing with here are a few "sand baggers" that want to remain Amateur. And in the case of the GAMEDIC, he did all he could to stay Amateur until he won his class championship on points and had to move to Expert "kicking and screaming" all the way! So "technically" in his mind he's still an Amateur! And ya know what, I agree with him! :P
HD
QuoteWERA doesn't even payout for anything and your bitching about HENRY again. WHATEVER get out of the AM class and race for the CASH or SHUT UP!!!!!
Actually we do. $25 from each of our Solo entries goes into a purse that gets paid that day in cash at the track. Since we have more Novices running the classes they get more money since it's done per class. We will also pay further back with more entries. Anyway, we do pay cash money to Novices.
You didn't pay anything at the National at Jennings. Did you ever talk to steve you never returned any of his calls or his emails.
Sadbaggers, I'm sure there are some. I may be beotching but I'm not a sandbagger...I'll be happy to slap on the white plates once I meet the requirments (points)... Hell, I've only done 2 race weekends ever....JGP & VIR Oh, and I got paid my AM purse at VIR as the rules stated! :-*
On CMP...I heard they raised the rates to rent the track...that's why it was dropped.
They have redone the transitions in Nashville and are suppose to be 'fixed'. Drop JGP and add Nashville. RA would be better...lol. I doubt it will happen...I'm sure JGP is cheaper to rent.
I say drop JGP, let FL be all to themselves.
QuoteYou didn't pay anything at the National at Jennings. Did you ever talk to steve you never returned any of his calls or his emails.
Well why didn't you say so in your post? We do pay at the Nationals - to Endurance Teams, LW Twins Superstock Expert and Formula 1 Expert. No we don't pay Novices in Sprint race at the Nationals but this thread wasn't talking about Nationals. It was talking about club racing so I assumed your reply was relevant to the topic, sorry about that.
As for Steve - Steve who? We have more than one that races with us. Also if he left a message then he got a return call, that's how it works.
No thats not how it works. Steve Servis and I have called you many times before and after the National about certain issue from that race. You have ignored his calls and emails. You are only making it worse by your position on this web site. If we wanted to have your imput on one of Henry's event I would have posted it on the WERA site not the CCS site. You do not follow the specific suzuki cup rules and you apply them at your "Good Ol Boy" leisure. By the way Henry pays out cash and CCS give you a check at the event they don't mail it to you 3 weeks later.
First who are you? Thanks for letting me know who Steve is.
I'm not sure what your problem is but nowhere have I ever slammed Henry. As a matter of fact we've done events together in the past and I enjoyed working with him. All I did was address a post of your that was innacurrate because I personally feel that if you're going to talk about anyone you should do so accurately.
Now if you and Steve had had some problems with WERA then please feel free to voice them wherever you like, but do so accurately...
As for people not repsonding to you or your friend, we're on the road a lot and things do get put off because we aren't in the office but no one gets ignored sorry. Have him email me again, I've searched and cannot find one from anyone named Steve that hasn't been answered. Now that I have a last name I'll look again. My email address is wera@wera.com in case you don't have it handy.
I am curious, did I piss in your wheaties or somehting at Jennings? You seem awfully upset at me about something and I have no clue who you are.
So I just read your post again - are you accusing us of cheating in some way? If so I'd suggest you have some facts to back up your accustations. We enforce all of the rules equally for everyone to the point where we've even disqualified the owners son. And I'm pretty sure that if anyone would have gotten a break it would have been him.
Wait a sec - you're pissed because of the whole protest thing aren't you? If that is indeed the case be happy we were nice enough to refund the protest fee when we shouldn't have. The bike in question was totally legal and had nothing to do with why you and your friend got beat by 23 and 28 seconds repsectively.... Next time you might pay more attention to which bike is the Endurance bike and which the rider is using for Sprint racing.
Wow, listen to all the folks judging. I'm so glad I'm called a "sandbagger". Just so everyone knows, this was my only race I've ever done.
I think saying that an AM shouldn't get paid anything is total BS. It still took alot of hardwork to win! You still have to run a pace that would be well into the middle of the pack in expert to MAYBE win in AM. I don't think that AMs should get paid AS MUCH as expert. But not paying someone for winning is just wrong. I mean, it kinda makes me feel like it wasn't really accomplisihing anything. I sure as hell don't think I deserve what the experts get, but something...???? Yeah, I've got two plaques that I think are still under my seat in the car. I supposed to have contingency money out there somewhere, I guess I'll know when it comes in.
Again, I'm not mad at anyone. I'm not mad at Henry, the Florida races were ran very smoothly. The ONLY THING I'M SAYING IS, could someone PLEASE put this in writing. The CCS website is FLAT OUT LYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have it in documentation, right in front of me! That needs to be changed!
I was very glad to see my friend (Speedster) get paid this past weekend at VIR. It's nice to see him get back something for the 1000 bux he spent on this past weekend. I didn't get anything since I manage to crash out in Friday practice. (Has anyone else noticed that bump going into turn 1 at VIR?!?!?) But that's besides the point, it's just nice to "win" something you know. Just to say, "Good job". Something to also say "it'll get better when you're expert" would be good as well!
Personally I look forward to recieving my white plates. My accomplishments as an amateur are nothing in the big scale of things. However, until I can keep up with Cummings or those other front runners, it's nice to know that my hard work is "rewarded".
Mongo, it's nice to see you escape the "WERA HOLE" every now and then. LOL
Super_Dave, I assume you have your name on your leathers? If so, I was am 823 at VIR this past weekend. I passed you in the morning session, but didn't see you again. I wanted to meet you, but didn't know who you were without your leathers!
Quote. but they dont desive to take cash that I could be winning.
WHATEVER get out of the AM class and race for the CASH or SHUT UP!!!!!
Dude, not that it really matters, but the above is complete and total B.S. >:(
Let me ask you something...
1. What makes your bike so much more expensive to run over mine that I, as an amature, or any amature in that case, that WE (the amatures) do NOT deserve the contignecy money? What, do amature bikes run on water and use tires that can be retreaded or something. ???
2. Get out of the amature class? Why, do you want me to be in your way because I'm slower than you? Want a sh%tload of amatures on the grid with you and packing up the field so you have to spend more time trying to pass 8th place instead of fighting for a podium? You sure that you want that many people on the grid just for a check? Doesn't that kind of get in YOUR way as an Expert. Imagine half the expert class packed with tons of amatures THAT DO NOT BELONG THERE just because it pays out.
What you are stating is complete crap. Sorry man, but common. I know you were an amature at one point, and you didn't get paid, but you know what, what you are saying is that people that want to get paid for racing, need to be in expert or don't even bother racing. Last time I checked, my bank account sure has hell didn't get any money in it from contingency. Just because someone isn't fast enough to be in Expert class, doesn't mean that they shouldn't get paid for their efforts. Like I said, how about getting rid of all contingency for everyone in club racing. You wanna get paid, go race AMA. You can't, WHY NOT? You expect amatures to "STEP UP" and jump into Expert, regardless if that is the class they belong in, so why don't you go make the money in AMA?
>:(
QuoteMichael, you got right as far as I'm concerned. But let me correct you on our Expert Purses: GTO, GTU and GT Lights pay $500. each. The Unlimited Expert pays $2,000. What we are dealing with here are a few "sand baggers" that want to remain Amateur. And in the case of the GAMEDIC, he did all he could to stay Amateur until he won his class championship on points and had to move to Expert "kicking and screaming" all the way! So "technically" in his mind he's still an Amateur! And ya know what, I agree with him! :P
HD
we agree on something ;D i would have loved to stay down one more year and to make it all even more fun my first expert race was this weekend at VIR in the rain on DOT's... :o
Quotewe agree on something ;D i would have loved to stay down one more year and to make it all even more fun my first expert race was this weekend at VIR in the rain on DOT's... :o
Could've been worse. Atleast you weren't on slicks ;D What place did ya come in... cherry picker ??? ;D
i'm a little confused...if you won a championship why would you want to stay an amature...i've heard of more than one person trying to do this,but i don't understand why...i couldn't wait to get my white plates
Quotei'm a little confused...if you won a championship why would you want to stay an amature...i've heard of more than one person trying to do this,but i don't understand why...i couldn't wait to get my white plates
Bah, if you won a championship, you should be in Expert. What I am saying in the above is for the non-championship winning novices ;)
Why stay? So uhm.. you could be the fastest guy at all the race track.
Strange people these "Sandbaggers"! ::)
HD
now i recognize you ...you're the guy that would show up and hope the other guy didn't show,so you could win by default
Quotenow i recognize you ...you're the guy that would show up and hope the other guy didn't show,so you could win by default
::) :-/ Right on the money 8) ;D ;)
QuoteStrange people these "Sandbaggers"! ::)
HD
I'm far from a sandbagger. Alright, I admit, I belong in the intermediate group at track days instead of the school group ::) Geez, just cause you try and leave black marks out of every corner every assumes your sand bagging ::) ;D
Quotei'm a little confused...if you won a championship why would you want to stay an amature...i've heard of more than one person trying to do this,but i don't understand why...i couldn't wait to get my white plates
i just didn't really feel comfortable going up not because i wanted to stay and win against the AM i never won a race last year and my best finish was 2nd behind stuart vernon at RRR and that was because we were the only 2 who finished if i remember right.. i won the championship by going to every race and finishing and there were not alot of people that would race my class so i wound up with the most points the only track that i was even close to running expert times was RRR all the other tracks i was top 10 AM and maybe top 5 at one or 2 ...so.. i didn't have a choice this year.. so i'm making the best of it and going to try and hang on to someone in front of me and get a little faster and try not to get in the way of all you fast guys ;D
Quotei just didn't really feel comfortable going up not because i wanted to stay and win against the AM i never won a race last year and my best finish was 2nd behind stuart vernon at RRR and that was because we were the only 2 who finished if i remember right.. i won the championship by going to every race and finishing and there were not alot of people that would race my class so i wound up with the most points the only track that i was even close to running expert times was RRR all the other tracks i was top 10 AM and maybe top 5 at one or 2 ...so.. i didn't have a choice this year.. so i'm making the best of it and going to try and hang on to someone in front of me and get a little faster and try not to get in the way of all you fast guys ;D
That's how Fasttrax was last year too. All you had to do is show up and make it thru the entire race, and if you went to all the races, you'd end up with a championship. Hell, there was a 5 point spread in the amature Heavyweight Twins spot between 1st and 2nd. Wanna know the funny thing, all they did is show up, and start the race, and then come off, wait in the pits until the white flag came out, then they would both go out and make the last lap for the checkered. Neither of them cared who took first or 2nd for the season. They'd joke about it. Why even show up to the race track to do that crap? ??? They both had like a 60 point lead over 3rd place and there were only 2 races left in the season. The weird thing was that neither of them were even fast. They both just showed up to all the races, and since the Heavyweight Twins class was a select few of Aprilia's and Ducati's, there was no way to not place. I remember asking those guys what their lap time was for the track (Grattan) and they both said 1:40's. Hell, even I run faster than that. ;D
yeah..well i didn't do that..i mean i went out and raced to try and win the race... just never did. and with not many peoepl in my class i didn't even realize until like the last 3 weekends that i was in the lead in points
Quoteyeah..well i didn't do that..i mean i went out and raced to try and win the race... just never did. and with not many peoepl in my class i didn't even realize until like the last 3 weekends that i was in the lead in points
I hope that doesn't happen to me, because I'll be at all my regions races (if I get my bodywork in time), but I don't wanna go white plate next year just because I showed up and did decent. My first race is RA next week, but not sure if I can make that one because of bodywork >:( I definetly will try my butt off, and hopefully I just finish and make it thru the weekend without replacing parts ;D
QuoteI hope that doesn't happen to me, because I'll be at all my regions races (if I get my bodywork in time), but I don't wanna go white plate next year just because I showed up and did decent.
i hope it doesn't but it can it happend to me i mean look at VIR my best time ever there was a :40 now does that look like an EX time?.. lol NFMP my best time was like :23 or :24 the only track i ran good at was RRR and i did a :16 but then crashed on the next lap...lol... and hell i crashed after half way and there were only 3 people in the race..so i got points for 3rd place and i freaking crashed.... now.. wonder why i won the championship
Quotei hope it doesn't but it can it happend to me i mean look at VIR my best time ever there was a :40 now does that look like an EX time?.. lol NFMP my best time was like :23 or :24 the only track i ran good at was RRR and i did a :16 but then crashed on the next lap...lol... and hell i crashed after half way and there were only 3 people in the race..so i got points for 3rd place and i freaking crashed.... now.. wonder why i won the championship
Then I'd try to stay amature too. But, look it at this way, you'll only get faster racing with the experts, providing you can complete the race without visting the gravel traps. ;D
I'm going to decide for myself when I'm fast enough to bump up. If something like what happened to you happens to me, then I'll just quit racing and go do a crapload of track days. I know I'm not even close to ready for expert. Or, if I get too far ahead in points, I'll just skip a few race weekends or not run that class ;D
In Florida, we're not used to seeing "Championships" won that way! :D
HD
i'm giving it my best shot.. but hey my first expert race was in the rain at VIR on DOT's this weekend..lol i finished 6th out of a total of 7 that took the grid
How long were you an Amateur?
HD
QuoteHow long were you an Amateur?
HD
that was my first year... the year before that i did one race at VIR then last year a full season ..then i got bumped for this year
GAMEDIC, if you had raced in Florida, you never would have won a Championship like that! And even if you had enough points to move you to Expert and wanted to remain Amateur, we would have let you stay back. But when you win a Championship, you gotta go! ;)
HD
well i'm there now..i'm just going to try and make the best of it and get faster and see what happens
You will learn more, go faster and be safer as an Expert. Remember you're a Champion. Good luck.
HD
QuoteRemember you're a Champion.
Yeah, but there's a difference between an "earned" and a "given" championship. No offense GAMEDIC. Not that you didn't earn it, but you didn't "fight" for it. I think you know what I mean. You didn't want the white plates right?
QuoteYeah, but there's a difference between an "earned" and a "given" championship. No offense GAMEDIC. Not that you didn't earn it, but you didn't "fight" for it. I think you know what I mean. You didn't want the white plates right?
no ofence taken and no i did not want white plates and yes there are several other guys in my class that didn't go to every race that are much faster than me and would have taken it had they went...
Oh please, if you were that serious about not wanting to go Expert, you could have refused to accept the Championship! Give me a break! ???
HD
QuoteOh please, if you were that serious about not wanting to go Expert, you could have refused to accept the Championship! Give me a break! ???
HD
Well i'm not going to get into that... at first they were going to let me stay down but for reasons i am not going to get into they let me run daytona as AM then EX the rest of this season
On the bottom of each of your posts it says "CCS #68 Am SS Unlimited Champion"! You can't have it both ways! And you won't get much sympathy or respect the way you're talking and acting! :-[
HD
QuoteOn the bottom of each of your posts it says "CCS #68 Am SS Unlimited Champion"! You can't have it both ways! And you won't get much sympathy or respect the way you're talking and acting! :-[
HD
Well i was asked abotu it.. if you will see above i said i was going to go with it and try and get faster and see how it goes
Keep working at it, you might surprise yourself.
HD
QuoteSo I just read your post again - are you accusing us of cheating in some way? If so I'd suggest you have some facts to back up your accustations. We enforce all of the rules equally for everyone to the point where we've even disqualified the owners son. And I'm pretty sure that if anyone would have gotten a break it would have been him.
Wait a sec - you're pissed because of the whole protest thing aren't you? If that is indeed the case be happy we were nice enough to refund the protest fee when we shouldn't have. The bike in question was totally legal and had nothing to do with why you and your friend got beat by 23 and 28 seconds repsectively.... Next time you might pay more attention to which bike is the Endurance bike and which the rider is using for Sprint racing.
Mongo i looked at both bikes in the morning the endurance bike had a blown muffler and GSXR forks the other looked like SS legal but i realized the radiator was a older model when i asked him why he said it was a older motor in the bike. The rules state it must be a direct bolt in which it is not. Theres are plenty of things to change to make it work. At first he was signed up for Superbike so i didnt think anything of it. After checking the results i saw he was scored with SS. Also why would he leave so fast and the excuse the tech guys caught him at a gas station why were the tech guys gone? the last race was just about done when i turned in the protest.I dont believe the motor in it is legal as he pulled from me on the back straight like it was nothing. As for you guys following your rules what about slicks in a DOT class at Roebling this year and nobody DQed for it. Everyone ive talked to about it agrees its a Good Ol by screw job.
Mongo before you say something that may escalate this anymore I would suggest you check your Email and give me a call. I'm a licenced WERA racer and you have all my contact info EX 416.
I know Steve has tried to get you over 5 times in the last 3 weeks. EX 598
By the way it was the Super Sport bike the endurance bike has a Ohlins front end, but you wouldn't know that because you didn't look at either bike. The SS bike had a 2001 motor from a carburated SV retroed for the injection in the 2003 chassis. It had NO OIL COOLER...... Mixing years and generation engines and frame is not legal in Suzuki Cup.
QuoteLet me ask you something...
1. What makes your bike so much more expensive to run over mine that I, as an amature, or any amature in that case, that WE (the amatures) do NOT deserve the contignecy money? What, do amature bikes run on water and use tires that can be retreaded or something. ???
I'll answer that.
As an amateur, you don't have the same skills as an expert, or at least you're not supposed to... If one does, then one should be racing as an expert.
Anyway, amateur/novice racing is for learning the sport, not for making money.
Is it more expensive to race as an expert? Yeah, you need to have tires that give better grip so you're gonna put on newer tires more often. The commitment to try to race up front is going to cost more than what it does to race up front as an amateur.
Why is there a mentality that one has to "win" an amateur race before becoming expert? I never did, and we were called novices than. Didn't win any races until my second year as an expert (1990) at the old Gateway. This is the sport of racing, not a game of entitlements.
Steve - Roebling was because with the rulebook going out late we had told people they could run the slicks they'd already purchased, at the first couple of races. That is over now and as you may have noticed, it didn't happen at Jennings did it? I'm not really sure how working with our customers so they don't throw away hundreds of dollars is a bad thing but so be it and I apologize for doing so.
If you are so positive of your protest then wy did you withdraw it? That was your choice, not ours, we did give you that option - however it wasn't forced upon you. As I've explained in my email to Mike (the first email I've received from either of you) the people we talked to who would know the bike's legality were in agreement it wasn't an older motor in the bike he raced in LWT SS. The only people that disagreed were you and your teammates - and as you can imagine we viewed you as an interested party. If you hadn't withsrawn we would have gone through the whole DQ and appeal process, however unless people changed their stories somehow we'd be right where we are now.
As for the rest of your accusations about speed, are you saying that Brian Suffridges bike is illegal too? After all he was only .06 seconds behind Roger at the line and they were both 28 seconds ahead of you at that point. I'm just trying to see if all the bikes in the class other than yours were legal or not in your opinion. I can post the laptimes for everyone if you'd like to prove your point with facts.
MMills - I have read and responded to your email. I'll gladly post it here if you like. I have no problems with escalation since I'm not the one continually posting accusations here. All I'm doing is responding to people accusing WERA of lying and cheating. I'm kind of getting the impression that you post such things here and by, as you said, trying to contact me on the Jennings BBS (something which I don't understand but oh well), because you don't want responses that may prove your accusations to be unfounded. As for the rules update, thanks but I already know them, I helped write them after all.
Oh yeah to both of you - if you actually read ALL of the Suzuki Cup rules you'll notice something interesting that you may have missed in all your complaining about how I stole money from you - there is NO MONEY. There weren't enough LWTSS machines for Suzuki to pay out...
Dawn - sorry about this but while I didn't start this here I do have an obligation to WERA to respond when people falsely accuse us of of things.
couldn't have said it better,it's like the guy who starts a new job and wants the same bennies and pay as the guy who's been there for years and has proved himself...it's a reflection of where we are now as people,alot of people want things right now that others have worked years to earn
Quotecouldn't have said it better,it's like the guy who starts a new job and wants the same bennies and pay as the guy who's been there for years and has proved himself...it's a reflection of where we are now as people,alot of people want things right now that others have worked years to earn
That's not true. But, even the new guy gets paid on the job. Usually not as much as the guy who's been around for years, but usually something. ;D
Mongo, the wera officail at the track to us that the tech officails had left and the competitor had aready left and the Higher Ups, meaning you had asked steve to withdraw the protest. Meaning politly to shove it. Steve, his girlfriend, John Linder and I were so suprised by the position WERA took what else were we to do at 5:30 on sunday night facing a 6 hour drive.
I cannot tell you weither the bike had motor work or not, the piont is it was an older motor retroed to use the injection. I know this because the Competitor told use how to do it. He wanted to know how I made oil coolers for the older motor so he could use them as well. All you have to do is change the side cover and the flywheel to use the injection on the older motor. The cases on his bike are form the older bike thats why it didn't have the oil cooler. That is not legal in Suzuki Cup which you are aware of since as you said you wrote the rules.
By the way the winner and track officials told steve that it was paying suzuki cup money and points. because but the pionts and money are devied up differently due to the small field.
By the way I have yet to see your response to my email. Please send it again.
Talk to your email server, it was sent. I've responded to this enough.
Ok, so how many topics can we bastardize this thread with? LOL
QuoteOk, so how many topics can we bastardize this thread with? LOL
Why's it always gotta be about you? Don't be selfish ;D :P
But, but, but... WWWAAAHHHHH! :P
QuoteBut, but, but... WWWAAAHHHHH! :P
I told ya your money went to the airfence fund at the beginning of this thread. Believe me yet ? ;D Back to the thread jacking :P
amateur - a person who engages in some art, science, sport, etc. for the pleasure of it rather than for money: a NON PROFESSIONAL;specif., an athete who is variously forbidden by RULE to profit from his athletic activity.....
New World College Dic. 2nd ed.
It goes on! I do not agree w/ amateurs getting paid (I was one last year and half) spent $$$$$$$ and couldnt wait to get the white plates (but not for money -'cause thats where the big dogs play!!) I'll prob. get whupped up on but I race for the fun
BTW- You guys should get to know Henry . He is not in this for the money He does it because of a life long love of the sport. Beleive me he would rather be racing, he has more passion for this than anyone I know and cares for every rider and their well being. He has always been quick to point out that it is not his "show" we are (the riders) the show! Thanks for all you have done for us here in Fla.!
James E. Beard ccsEX90
Nobody has falsely accused Wera of anything im just staing facts i cant even get a return phone call. You said if you leave a message you will get a call back. All im asking is for a phone call so i can explain how i was treated.
Quoteamateur - a person who engages in some art, science, sport, etc. for the pleasure of it rather than for money: a NON PROFESSIONAL;specif., an athete who is variously forbidden by RULE to profit from his athletic activity.....
New World College Dic. 2nd ed.
It goes on! I do not agree w/ amateurs getting paid (I was one last year and half) spent $$$$$$$ and couldnt wait to get the white plates (but not for money -'cause thats where the big dogs play!!) I'll prob. get whupped up on but I race for the fun
BTW- You guys should get to know Henry . He is not in this for the money He does it because of a life long love of the sport. Beleive me he would rather be racing, he has more passion for this than anyone I know and cares for every rider and their well being. He has always been quick to point out that it is not his "show" we are (the riders) the show! Thanks for all you have done for us here in Fla.!
James E. Beard ccsEX90
Bah. Your still not gonna change my opinion on the matter. First year novice, I understand. After that, it's a free for all ;D What your saying is that it's like going to school to get a degree. First, you work co-op for free or damn near free, then until you get a masters, you still work for free. I see it, as it happened to me in school.
Co-Op: Free
BSEE: $?
Masters: Don't have it.
PhD: Don't want it. Too much work.
or
Novice: 1st year Free
Novice: Contingency
Expert: Higher Purses than novice
AMA + : Da Big Money w/Factory Ride
Same sh$t, different pile ;) ;D :P
QuoteBah. Your still not gonna change my opinion on the matter. First year novice, I understand. After that, it's a free for all ;D What your saying is that it's like going to school to get a degree. First, you work co-op for free or damn near free, then until you get a masters, you still work for free. I see it, as it happened to me in school.
Co-Op: Free
BSEE: $?
Masters: Don't have it.
PhD: Don't want it. Too much work.
or
Novice: 1st year Free
Novice: Contingency
Expert: Higher Purses than novice
AMA + : Da Big Money w/Factory Ride
Same sh$t, different pile ;) ;D :P
WTF! Are you for real? Its not my definition! Its not semi-expert, or semi-pro, it is a-m-a-t-e-u-r! Step it up or do someting else!
So, whatkindatiresyourunnin this year? :-X
I raced BMX bikes for years, most of them as an expert. In the NBL (nat. bicycle league) the only money winners were pros...not novices or experts. They could only race for points & throphies....sometimes cheesy plagues! So, either give everyone some purse money or no one but the real pros (ama racers). All you wineing whities shutup! Let us AMs cash in while we can...it's a whole nother level when you jump up to expert and if it's like bmx racing it will take a few years or more to get up to the front of the expert classes. I just don't understand why you guys are so set on No purses for AMs.
Again, my main complaint is that the information about the FL region differences are not offically posted.
If i had to go expert after 5 weekends THEN QUIT YOUR BITCHING, AND BE LUCKY YOU GOT TO BE AN AM FOR MORE THAN A YEAR !!
Are we done with this subject yet?
Dawn :-/
QuoteAre we done with this subject yet?
Dawn :-/
LOL - which one?
I'm done with all but the tires thing, I'm still undecided but I think I may swap out the stock tires to Buckshot Mudders since I can get a set of 5 really cheap....
QuoteI'm done with all but the tires thing, I'm still undecided but I think I may swap out the stock tires to Buckshot Mudders since I can get a set of 5 really cheap....
;D
C'mon, Dawn. It's only eight pages so far! I just got me a new 19" monitor and I can finally browse this forum without reading glasses!
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fresthome.50megs.com%2Flurk.gif&hash=375662b1e8209491a9c2f79b0250251f7e14c6db)
And just so that there is no further confusion, LRRS (another CCS affilliate) doesn't pay prize money to amateurs. Actually, there is only one race with a purse, the "Dash For Cash"
Oh my God :o, another region that doesn't pay Amateurs! This could spread all over the country! ;D
HD
Johnny and Henry....
You guys are too funny!
Dawn ;)
As long as it spreads AFTER I get my white plates. ;D
Ya know, the whole point in this thread was why isn't it posted on CCSs website that Henry's races aren't really "CCS" races. I don't know how we ever got on the subject of why Novices should or shouldn't get money. :P
I understand everyone has their opinion, and I'm not mad at anyone for thinking my lowly ass shouldn't get paid. On the other hand though, shouldn't someone who works their ass off to get to the front be rewarded SOMETHING? Honestly, I think the experts get paid too little, while the novice winnings are just fine. I mean, 175 bux max for a win that costs you 600 bux... But the experts, I think, work alot harder getting a win and should get MORE MONEY! Really, if you're good enough to win alot of the expert races then you're good enough to potentially make it somewhere as a privateer in the AMA. But, I RAMBLE on. I still think novices should make money, just not as much as an expert...because it still takes ALOT to win, even as a novice. (I started towards the back of the pack at Jennings and was running 21's almost the whole race to take 2nd place!)
QuoteAs long as it spreads AFTER I get my white plates. ;D
Ya know, the whole point in this thread was why isn't it posted on CCSs website that Henry's races aren't really "CCS" races. I don't know how we ever got on the subject of why Novices should or shouldn't get money. :P
I understand everyone has their opinion, and I'm not mad at anyone for thinking my lowly ass shouldn't get paid. On the other hand though, shouldn't someone who works their ass off to get to the front be rewarded SOMETHING? Honestly, I think the experts get paid too little, while the novice winnings are just fine. I mean, 175 bux max for a win that costs you 600 bux... But the experts, I think, work alot harder getting a win and should get MORE MONEY! Really, if you're good enough to win alot of the expert races then you're good enough to potentially make it somewhere as a privateer in the AMA. But, I RAMBLE on. I still think novices should make money, just not as much as an expert...because it still takes ALOT to win, even as a novice. (I started towards the back of the pack at Jennings and was running 21's almost the whole race to take 2nd place!)
My thoughts exactly ! ;D
In the Florida Region, the Experts do get more than most other regions because we don't pay Amateurs! Just so you know, CCS/Florida sanctions with CCS but is not owned by CCS (like LRRS). Clay, I heard about your crash at VIR, hope you're doing ok (sounds like it).
HD
I'm doing fine overall Henry. As always, it could have been alot worse!
BTW, is there going to be a GPUA this time in Florida? There wasn't one at the last race.
Clay, what is GPUA? E-mail me at hdpromos@aol.com about pre-entering or anything else. I don't know why my e-mail add is blocked on this site. I'll try to fix it.
HD