Well I think that ccs should start gridding by points
It will keep the regular rider comming back and we should get some kind of perk for being there week in and week out other than Wood not everyone gets woood and this would help mix it up a bit .
Next point just cuz some of the racers have money :D :D :D :does not mean they should be up front there are some rider with money that should not be up front cuz it is just to dangerous at the start !
if we where to do it by points it would keep the faster guys and gals up front and the not so fast guy and gals in the back !
so the more you ride the better you get and the better grids you will have I think that would be a nice reward for all the money spent and time some of us put in to the ccs org.
Plus then the number 1 plate would be won and not bought this means that the best rider gets it not the richest !
We all work very hard all year round and make many sacrifices to do the sport we love !
so make it fair for everyone isn't that what everyone is allways talking about anyways!
My last and finall point !!!!!!!!!
Tiffiny and Kevin and the rest of the hard working CCS people would no longer have to get an ear full about lost pre reg.cuz for the most part you could look on the points pages and figure out where you will be gridded from race to race !
If WERA can do it soo can CCS! lets let them know what you think and write in ! pluse I would like your imput!! thanks Casper!!!!!!!!! :-/ :-/
I agree, that way I will always be gridded ahead of you in HW sportsman... :o :o :o
WHAT PLACE DID YOU TAKE THIS WEEKEND i TOOK THIRD AND YOU WHERE
FORTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
AND FOR A CHANGE I WAS TRYING NOT TO BE A SMART ASS EDGER!!!!!!!!
i'll tell you all.....
david vaughn is top 3 am in three regions, and is not always able to pre-register, ive seen him grided so far back that i'd be afraid (and have been) to launch too hard with "unstable creatures" "horded" in front of me, i personaly made a narrow escape of a green flag collision, and the next few green flags just werent the same (i eased off the line)(and thats not racing).
dave can get around slower people, and under them ( ;D ) if you know dave..
but if we're speaking fair, YES, i vote to grid by points.........
to me, it's almost RESPECTABLE, these guys are the best we got, if we dont qualify by times for grid, and the better guy shows up, he shouldnt be behind someone who just finished school last month and is turning 10 seconds slower, think about it.... i feel like ive earned the right to grid in front of anyone slower than me, and i dont want to cheat someone who is faster than me out of a grid spot, (if theres an error ::) then i may not say anything if it works in my favor ;D ) i think you got the right one baby, i mean, casper pooh.
oops, did i let the cat out??????
ok, ok im joking!!!!! just dont put that ghost on me, IT WAS A JOKE !
Casper and Edgar...
When are you guys going to become experts?!?! The competition is getting so intense in here. :o
If it keeps up like this, the other amatures will be afraid to race with you!
Dawn ;)
Hey, I had second in the bag until the engine started to not want to run...I later found bad gas with sugar in the gas tank :P
I think I will become expert once I am done taking the HW sportsman championship from Casper :D :D :D
sugar in you r gas what ever!!! Edger no one put sugar in your gas it is not that important to to beet by doing somthing as stupid as that if the comp.was that bad I would have to stoop to that level I would find another hobbie.
Just like when you gave me that bent crack that fed up my motor right before midd America and I had to use someone else bike and yhat was the same time you took the lead sooooo I f you want to re live all that siznit we can !!!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
I for one agree that gridding should be done by points, but know that it's a lost cause. This topic has been debated ad nauseum for at least the 4 years I've been involved with racing, if not more, and CCS has chosen to stick with the pre-registration format. Look back a month or two on this very forum and you'll see a similair thread that generated significant response from the racing community.
To my knowledge CCS has never specified their objections to gridding by points or at least provided sound reasoning as to why they feel the current format is the best. My opinion on why it will never change..... CCS can do a lot more with the money they force you to pay months in advance than they can waiting until race day. Plus, how much money would CCS lose on rain weekends alone ? Go through tech on a sunny Saturday morning and you're not getting a dime back on a rainy Sunday. (when you'll likely have several races) Under the current format they've got your money whether you take your grid spot or not. Allow post registration but grid by points and they'd never see a lot of it. I pre-register because I have to in order to be at the front of the grid. I'm out close to $500 this season on pre-registered races I did not run because I choose not to race in the rain. Even skipping all of those races I'm 2nd in points in 5 different classes.
If CCS gridded by points, I'd still be doing well in the points, but be $500 richer.
There are valid arguments for both formats, all of which are clearly irrelevent. It comes down to $$$. You've got it, CCS wants it and they want it a.s.a.p. We've all heard (or said) the following, " Next year I'm going to pre-register for the whole season in January." And somewhere, an accountant for CCS smiles.
Well david is the better rider so if he can still win from the back then he should not have a problem with it and as far as being a fraid of a faster rider passing you ! well then ???? he is a very good rider and you should trust him as such !
well then why not stay faithfull to one club !
I know it is a money thing but if they are that good and they can come from the back and win they will still earn more points than your last months grad
do you like these cherry pickers taking your money cuz they are if they are faithfull to our club then fine theres the money but they are putting half the money into it and taking all of it !
and guys like David V well most likely lap the slower guys anyway so where is the wash i would rather be past at the line than at the finish where there speeds are even faster after coming the whole straight rather than 1/4 of the straight!!it can work!
I agree but nothing changes when nothing is done Right !!!!
they say at every riders meeting to write them with your ideas right! so do it he says they really do read them well then write ! if every one writes in then they will know if you don't they will not know what we want.
and as far as the weather thing all I can say is the weather channel lol.
this club is growing faster every year and I do not think it will start go south any time soon! they can aford it so speek your peace!if it was not for us where would they be they would't!!!so write them and write them often
QuoteHey, I had second in the bag until the engine started to not want to run...I later found bad gas with sugar in the gas tank :P
I think I will become expert once I am done taking the HW sportsman championship from Casper :D :D :D
so Edgar are you saying you are a gas exspert now you where able to test it at the track what did you do drink it !!!and if you did then you need to talk to Tim chin he needs you to test for ox. in the gas that he wantd to outlaw
Lets face facts...
This last weekend was my very first race (not including the racer school race).
The last thing you want, is to have some one like me at the front of the pack, when I am not ready for it. The fact of the matter is, I should be in the back... end of story. The first few rows should be who deserves to be there, not who gets their money in first.
I was shocked when I found out how gridding was done. I do understand peole that can't make every race might be upset, making it harder for them to get good spots. Lets face it though, is a guy only making a few races a year, the guy you want to worry about having a bad launch on the start?
QuoteThe first few rows should be who deserves to be there, not who gets their money in first.
Exactly. The first 11 spots (3 rows) SHOULD be gridded by points (except the first race of the year).
Rob you have a very good Idea ok so if they do
no want to it for everyone then make it fro the first 6 rows anyway! cuz they do have somewhatof a brake in the grid! it would be fine that way also :D
I was top 10 in points in every class that I race in (before I skipped the last 2 races) and my best starting position was on the 6th row (the only time I wasn't in 2nd wave this year).
Yes YES YES by points. pre-entry by points and post-entry by order of entry. Grid like how FUSA classes grids. 600SS and open SS. It makes more sense.
I skipped 4 weekends this year because I didn't think there is any reason to throw away $1500 if I have no shot of the top 5-10 (I am not THAT fast). I am a loyal CCS racer, and planned on attending every event. But I don't think this series regular has been rewarded as the current system "supposed" to reward.
Lets hope that CCS at least give it some thought and gather enough feedback to make a decision. Either way, I learned my lessons this year, and will be ready for next year either way. I want to be upfront and want a chance to win without knocking the slower guys out of the way.
Kevin Elliot himself told me that one reason they didn't do it by points was that is would be too much work for them to get the results in and compile them to have the grid ready for the next race...that came strait from him...
YEs, yes, yes.... grid by points. :) If you are faster, you are faster. It would make racing safer... remember the pile up at RA during the race start? :'(
QuoteKevin Elliot himself told me that one reason they didn't do it by points was that is would be too much work for them to get the results in and compile them to have the grid ready for the next race...that came strait from him...
WELL it DOES take TWO months TO see POINTS posted.
and i have lost some money by not racing after pre-registering,
early on for not knowing...... and recently for mechanical that didnt happen in time for me to notify ccs.
OH, NEW SUBJECT.
WHY NOT GIVE MY MONEY BACK IF IM NOT IN THE RACE.
To throw some 99 octane on the fire, there should be a beginner class beyond amateur.
There are constantly a handful of people who get lapped twice in an 8 lap race. Most of them stay upright and people manage to get around them, but it's scary for them and it's scary for those who end up passing them on the grass!
I look forward to running in some AMA races next year where I have to actually QUALIFY for my grid spot & eligibility to run the race!
I know CCS doesn't have the time to run qualifying, but the addition of one class for NEW racers who WANT to run it would be beneficial.
I'm not saying that CCS should mandate all new racers into this class, but I'm sure there are slow racers out there who would enjoy going around the track without being buzzed when the leaders catch up to them repeatedly.
I am against the 'by points' grids.
I am only an amateur, and only race a 2 or 3 times a year...so I have like no points.
But I am a front-runner, and show up to win. If it was by points, I would be starting deadlast.
That doesn't seem too fair.
Placings are placings, and points are points. And they are not always releted.
A slower rider can hit every race and aquire a lot of points, that doesn't make them fast. So either way you do it, you are still going to have fast and slow guys up front, on the grids.
Why penalize fast riders because they haven't been able to follow the points/races schedule for their region?
You want to be gridded upfront.... preregister. It's simple :)
QuoteI am against the 'by points' grids.
I am only an amateur, and only race a 2 or 3 times a year...so I have like no points.
But I am a front-runner, and show up to win. If it was by points, I would be starting deadlast.
That doesn't seem too fair.
Placings are placings, and points are points. And they are not always releted.
A slower rider can hit every race and aquire a lot of points, that doesn't make them fast. So either way you do it, you are still going to have fast and slow guys up front, on the grids.
Why penalize fast riders because they haven't been able to follow the points/races schedule for their region?
You want to be gridded upfront.... preregister. It's simple :)
ya that suck but if you are fast than this should not hurt you if you only run a few than what if the differance you are not going for point any way what are trying to win !! there are a few like you but we all work hard and spend lotttttsss
of money and would like to see the number 1 plate go to some one who earned it rathan buying it.
If you are only doing a few than what is the diff. where you start it sounds like it is only a hobbie for you any way?????????
QuoteKevin Elliot himself told me that one reason they didn't do it by points was that is would be too much work for them to get the results in and compile them to have the grid ready for the next race...that came strait from him...
well you and I know that they need to hire another person to help in that office any way I'm 4weeks to see your point thats bull shit and I know many race that would be very qulified to do the job for as little as a price break on there entery fees!
big deal right !!well it seem like they can find the excusses but not find a way to fix this problem soooo we must help them and WRITE into them with your IDEAS and get it fixed what do you think its that easy
QuoteTo throw some 99 octane on the fire, there should be a beginner class beyond amateur.
There are constantly a handful of people who get lapped twice in an 8 lap race. Most of them stay upright and people manage to get around them, but it's scary for them and it's scary for those who end up passing them on the grass!
I look forward to running in some AMA races next year where I have to actually QUALIFY for my grid spot & eligibility to run the race!
I know CCS doesn't have the time to run qualifying, but the addition of one class for NEW racers who WANT to run it would be beneficial.
I'm not saying that CCS should mandate all new racers into this class, but I'm sure there are slow racers out there who would enjoy going around the track without being buzzed when the leaders catch up to them repeatedly.
well jeff we should write in and do somthing about rather than talk about !!! right bud lets work this out some how!! ;D ;D
Quoteya that suck but if you are fast than this should not hurt you if you only run a few than what if the differance you are not going for point any way what are trying to win !!
I am trying to win the races I enter. I am also trying to win contingencies to subside some of my costs.
I risk my neck as much as the next guy....but I should be stuck in the back to fight my way past the midpackers in a sprint? Why?...cause I missed some races? If it's all about points, then why even show up at all if you know you are going to miss a few weekends? Cause it's about racing...we want to race...we want to win.
As far as "if you are fast, then this should not hurt you"...amateur wise I am very fast...but getting stuck in the back of the grid in a sprint? If you are in the back of the pack when they throw the green...good luck ::) The front couple of guys are only a second or so off the fast experts.
We both know when the flag drops, they are GONE.
Quotethere are a few like you but we all work hard and spend lotttttsss
of money and would like to see the number 1 plate go to some one who earned it rathan buying it.
buying it? it's the guys who have the $ to show up every race (no offense to anyone) who are more so buying the final points tally than people that pre register. There are a lot of fast guys out there who aren't on the 'points trail'
QuoteIf you are only doing a few than what is the diff. where you start it sounds like it is only a hobbie for you any way?????????
The diff is I am there to race, not hang out in the back of the pack.
I pay my $ and I can run w/ any amateur, so it's unfair for me (or anyone) to get shoved in the back, so highpoint riders can duke it out for the season points. Why not just say at the beginning of the season, "if you aren't going to show up every weekend, don't bother showing up at all cause your not going to get a fair shot at winning the races."
And as far as points, I couldn't care less if someone has more points than me....if they beat me in the races, then they beat me and congrates...If I beat them on the track, I beat them....points are like graphs, they don't tell the whole story.
Beating someone in points doesn't mean you beat someone on the track...and the TRACK is what matters to me.
As far as a hobbie, isn't that what it is to all of us here...I mean if your Nickie Hayden then prerigistered or not...your gonna win EVERYTHING.
I won every race I entered in March until my motor blew up (while I was leading) and my frame broke...
I had engine and frame problems on the 1st weekend that has caused me to not be able to race but twice this year.
If anything, I am at a complete disavantage cause I have ZERO track time. Now I should be gridded in the back too? Even though I win?
I am not trying to start a bonfire on here (nor insult anyone), but I don't think it would be fair to shove people in the back cause they can't make all the races...at an amateur 'club' level anyway.
I mean basicaly what you are proposing is the guys w/ the most seat-time should get the best grid positions. Can't us broke or badluck'd guys get any breaks ;)
Oh, and my response/veiws are towards Amateur CCS club races...Not Expert level CCS racing as that is a whole nother realm, that I know nothing about.
Bombs away ::)
winning percentage + date of registration = grid position.
This is the best way and I believe CCS already does this.
That would work if they could keep the points straight. I have shown them where they are not right and no one seems to care .I started three months ago and still cant get them changed.
How about gridding by Performance index?
Your performance index has more relevance to your abilities/placings than season points, so if they gridded by PI the fastest guys would be upfront regardless of how many weekends they are able to race throughout the season.
Makes more sense to me, than gridding by points
QuoteTo throw some 99 octane on the fire, there should be a beginner class beyond amateur.
There are constantly a handful of people who get lapped twice in an 8 lap race. Most of them stay upright and people manage to get around them, but it's scary for them and it's scary for those who end up passing them on the grass!
I know CCS doesn't have the time to run qualifying, but the addition of one class for NEW racers who WANT to run it would be beneficial.
I'm not saying that CCS should mandate all new racers into this class, but I'm sure there are slow racers out there who would enjoy going around the track without being buzzed when the leaders catch up to them repeatedly.
Sounds like a good idea, BUT what classes would you suggests removing to make room for them during the weekend? Our sat and sundays are already tight in the mid-america/great lakes region.
C
QuoteRob you have a very good Idea ok so if they do
no want to it for everyone then make it fro the first 6 rows anyway! cuz they do have somewhatof a brake in the grid! it would be fine that way also :D
Hell if by some ODD reason I ended up being gridded in the front 2-3 rows of a large group, I would purposely start from the back anyways. I really dont like holding others up with my slow ass.:D:D
QuoteWELL it DOES take TWO months TO see POINTS posted.
and i have lost some money by not racing after pre-registering,
early on for not knowing...... and recently for mechanical that didnt happen in time for me to notify ccs.
OH, NEW SUBJECT.
WHY NOT GIVE MY MONEY BACK IF IM NOT IN THE RACE.
QuoteWELL it DOES take TWO months TO see POINTS posted.
and i have lost some money by not racing after pre-registering,
early on for not knowing...... and recently for mechanical that didnt happen in time for me to notify ccs.
OH, NEW SUBJECT.
WHY NOT GIVE MY MONEY BACK IF IM NOT IN THE RACE.
On the issue of points posting; the BHF track championship has not been updated since June!
Let me race for free (or at least mostly free) and I'll update all of our results by Monday evening!!!
If I remember correctly, GLRRA used to refund entry fees if the rider was not able to race. I don't remember the specific conditions for a refund but I might also point out that they don't really have much of an existence this year as an organization.
They also used to have races that required riders to place high enough in other races in order qualify for a certain race. But, it seems that they did not offer as many classes as CCS does, hence, less racing time.
The dichotomy of gridding: by points or by greenback arrival time....
What is racing? It is competition. Competition among racers who strive to be the best and fastest rider in their classes. Shouldn't, then, racers be rewarded by being gridded according to that rider's ability? If I win, I should be first. That's racing, I earned it.
Or perhaps gridding by performance index.
ack!
performance index is good enough for me.. I vote yes.
I just have a problem that someone who is not financially strapped would ALWAYS get better position to me. Maybe that is not buying a #1 plate, but it IS buying grid postion.
They may as well start a system where you pay 85 per race for the first 3 rows, $75 for the next 3 rows and $65 for the 2nd wave.
I work my ass off, save up my little bit of cash to go racing, and sometimes this year, I can only get the money the day before the race, and I am all the way in the back for my inability to make money in time? It doesn't seem fair.
If the grid is small it wouldn't make much difference. But when I start from the 11th row, behind a blue shirt or two, I can't pass as fast (don't wanna be mean to the slower guys). GT races always seem better finishes for me, but when I am done by 15 seconds after the first lap... how fair is the competition. How about everyone run superbike rules in supersport if you start in 2nd wave???
I know I am just complaining, but I really don't like grids be decided on who is richer... we all work hard, tighten our belts, why is some of our money is not as worthy as someone else's
Quotewell jeff we should write in and do somthing about rather than talk about !!! right bud lets work this out some how!! ;D ;D
I could draft a letter this weekend for review, then everyone print/sign/mail.
Really, this will not necessarily benefit me because I won't be in that situation next year. I'll be the slow expert now 8)
As for where to put it and when to run it? It could be run on EITHER DAY with very little impact! Run a 5 lap race for them, unlimited in CC and mods.
The reason I say unlimited is because of the TL girl. She is out there, and holds a decent line, trying to race and having fun, but she is not really able to keep up with the rest of the pack and becomes a 'target' so to speak. This is not to say she sucks, or she is the only one, just one that comes to mind.
If we could jam 1 1/2 days of racing into this last Sunday at BHF and STILL have a lunch break & run full length races, we can EASILY slip in a 5 lapper...
I would support that new class as well, count me in for a sig.
If we can have Formula 40, we can have a "Entry class" race. but if they do it for 5 laps, they should charge $30 regardless.
Don't they already have a beginner race, it just happens to go by the name of LCR School???
Maybe LCR should offer 2 levels of instruction, 1 in which true first timers are shown the Flags, rules, courtesies, etc... like they currently do, and another one that ANYONE could take that offered Intermediate to Advanced instruction and was more focused on riding skills and practice. Then, both groups could run the same practice race, make it a little longer, and send it out in heats.
QuoteI am against the 'by points' grids.
I am only an amateur, and only race a 2 or 3 times a year...so I have like no points.
But I am a front-runner, and show up to win. If it was by points, I would be starting deadlast.
That doesn't seem too fair.
Placings are placings, and points are points. And they are not always releted.
A slower rider can hit every race and aquire a lot of points, that doesn't make them fast. So either way you do it, you are still going to have fast and slow guys up front, on the grids.
Why penalize fast riders because they haven't been able to follow the points/races schedule for their region?
You want to be gridded upfront.... preregister. It's simple :)
speedy baller Z,
you make a good point.....
index....thumbs up....
i read BRG also...
Quoteanother one that ANYONE could take that offered Intermediate to Advanced instruction and was more focused on riding skills and practice.
Visionsports Riding School I believe covers this aspect of instruction.
Dawn :)
After taking in all the different opinions about gridding, I don't know if there is "One True Answer"
to the problem of gridding people fairly.
Take me for example. I try to pre-reg. as often as I can, but somtimes it just isn't possible. In the Middleweight Sportsman class, I'm pretty competitive on my FZR. I can usually count on finishing in he top 5. In some of the Lightweight classes, however, I can't keep up with some of those SV's. I finish in somewhere between 6th and 10th depending on how big they are that day :o.
So what is best...points would mean I would get gridded in front of guys in LTWTSS who are faster and they will have to get around me (look out for the elbows ;))
...or grid by order of entry which means I'd have to struggle through some folks in the Middleweight Sportsman Race that I shouldn't have to.
The only suggestion I can make is timed practices.
But that would cost CCS some bucks.
In order to make it cost effective for them...
You would have to either rent a transponder from CCS (with a hefty damage deposit) or buy one that is compatable with their equipment.
Maybe that way we could all get gridded fairly......opinions?
The argument that racers who choose only to race local events would be severly penalized by gridding by points simply doesn't hold up. For proof, look no farther than the points standings themselves. In each class there are normally only 4-6 racers who hit every single event. Maybe a couple more, maybe even a couple less. Using the Mid-Atlantic region as an example, the top 10 in points in most classes consist of many racers who only hit Summit Point and V.I.R. Now look even closer into the top 15 of each class-- you'll find many examples of riders from other regions who happened to hit Daytona or a joint VIR race. Guess what, even if they're 5 positions ahead of you in the points, you won't see them on the grid ahead of you at Summit Point. The reality of the points is that a fast racer that only hits a couple tracks in his region is still going to be in the top 15 to 20 on the grid. At worst. And that means a start from the 5th or 6th row. At worst. And if some of you are as fast as you apparently think you are, then coming from the 5th or 6th row should be a breeze.
So who really is affected adversely by gridding by points ? The racer that shows up for his first race midway through the season, of course. Welcome. We're glad to have you. Now get to the back of the grid until you've paid your dues like the rest of us.
That certainly doesn't seem like a very warm, friendly attitude!?!?
....oh, and by the way, the Red Wings are gonna BLOW GOATS this season.
Shouldn't you be working!
look who's talking. :o
Work.....
The only reason why I work is to pay for my hobbies. All of which are expensive!!!!
My $0.02
Dawn ;)
The timed practice theory has been brought up of a few occasions but is really an invalid answer. You would have to break up the practices to get enough clear track for everyone and some people aren't able to make it to the Friday practices which would leave them at a severe disadvantage. I think the currnet system works fine because it's simple and you know what to expect. Other systems may look better but none are perfect so why change? My suggestion would be to just let everyone go for the warm up lap and first come first serve. Kind of like Superpole for the masses. That way whoever wants it more and is faster can have the front row. And by the way, this is a joke....because if it wasn't discussions about the unfairness of tire warmers would surely ensue.
QuoteThere are constantly a handful of people who get lapped twice in an 8 lap race. Most of them stay upright and people manage to get around them, but it's scary for them and it's scary for those who end up passing them on the grass!
The reason I say unlimited is because of the TL girl. She is out there, and holds a decent line, trying to race and having fun, but she is not really able to keep up with the rest of the pack and becomes a 'target' so to speak. This is not to say she sucks, or she is the only one, just one that comes to mind.
Thoughts from "the TL Girl" (and I won't take your comments personally, Jeff cuz I only get lapped ONCE every 8 laps nowadays! ;))...
I agree totally with gridding by performance index, and then by date/time of entry. I waited until Friday night to enter last weekend's races and was defniitely not expecting to find myself on the same row as my "lightning-fast" mentors on Sunday.
Okay... maybe performance index divided by the number of races???
Ok, first, Kim, you're doing much better. Especially after coming off a good wad up like you did. Nice job on the return.
Grids...
Ok, this is about racing. So, regardless of how a feels they do under competitive cercumstances, this IS racing. If you compete, and you get points, they should be meaningful.
Under the current system, someone that has a great deal of money, or credit cards, is rewarded. Again, this is racing, so let the points determine the grid.
However, do make it easier by gridding only those riders PRE-ENTERED by points, the rest by order of entry. I understand that some cannot attend all the series races. As a customer to CCS, the ones that show up regularly make a bigger impact than those that do not week in, week out. It's hard.
Qualifying would be the best option, but that would eliminate pre-entries for CCS, therefore, it would not be as financially viable. It would propably cause costs for CCS, and ultimately the racers, to escalate. Qualifying would be done during practice as your transponder records your laps. Might have to have an extra charge for not pre-entering.
Entry by performance index? Enter one race and win, you've got a PE of 1000. Enter ten races, win nine, second in one; lower performance index. Doesn't seem to be the right way to go.
Schooling? Yes, the CCS schools have traditionally only given the riders tools of safety: flags, this is registration, this is an ambulance. The rest is "survival of the fittest." I taught these schools for CCS in different places for many years. Needless to say, from my point of view, it wasn't as rewarding as I wanted it to be as an instructor, but I was happy to be someone for a new rider to go to for information.
As this sport has expanded, there has been an increase in the diversity of the riders. Back many years ago, everyone was pretty serious about all this racing stuff. Now, there are more "recreational racers". It has expanded the sport, but it can make it occasionally hazzordous in the amateur ranks.
I don't know if you can tier the system efficently. It would be hard, and how would you devide it? What about practice?
Back to my school...
I've made the new independent program available since 1999. Some take advantage of it, some do not. Some riders feel they have all the answers, and that's fine. Those riders cannot be taught....
No, NO, NOO and NOOOO! I do not agree, sorry charlie, go eat some tuna.
QuoteBack to my school...
I've made the new independent program available since 1999. Some take advantage of it, some do not. Some riders feel they have all the answers, and that's fine. Those riders cannot be taught....
So do you know what you are going to charge next year and the schedule yet? Hopefully I got the $$ and time to take it. I got some riding problems I'm hoping your school can fix for me. ;D
Won't know dates until the Midwest SCCA makes their dates in November or so. Everyone's schedule at Blackhawh follows that. I won't know prices until we know how much the insurance will cost, and if I can get http://www.corsesuperbikes.com to sponsor lunch.
Additionally, Bill, our CCS Midwest Director has made it known that he would like Thursday's for his Sport Rider Days to bring up attendance. If Blackhawk lets him do it, I might be inclined to do something else. There are some places that would like me to start other programs, and there are people that tell me to start a new series. I don't know where that idea is coming from, but, rumor has it, that AGV is trying to start a new road race body in the US.
Back to grids... Dave333, no, no, no and no is not an answer. What is the solution? Obviously, there is a problem with all the up roar across the board. Ideas?
As a representative for the guys and gals who only do a few races a year, I think gridding by points is a great idea. Yes I would love to be up front and I have pre-entered early in hopes of a 1st wave start, but honestly it didn't matter to me because for one, I'm out there racing! Two, I'm not the fastest so why make it more difficult for the fast guys to race each other with me in the way. The highest I finished was 12th and it was well earned. I rode my arse off. But my skill level is not top 5 yet so again, why keep it from someone who has that level?But unti lthen, I'll pre-register and hopefully do better each weekend I show up.
As some people have said, this is racing. Racing costs money and a lot of it . Just look at the cost of pre-entry as another expense to be competitive. The present system works most of the time but even though it is quite simple CCS manages to screw it up often enough . I don't think that CCS is capable of managing some of the complex gridding systems that were mentioned in this forum.
Is this system (time of entry) totally fair to all riders ? No !
But every system mentioned so far has their own shortfalls.
How about longer races.
At tracks like blackhawk run 10 laps instead of 8.
That would allow faster riders more time to move up through the field.
Run the riders school on friday if possible to allow more time for races on the weekend.