This is a message I received looking for your input:
QuoteCould you set up a poll asking riders preference for longer races or more practice times? This year, with the reduction in the number of classes, we are planning on adding a lap to the sprints, but could change that if practice time is prefered.
So here you go!
Dawn :)
i voted for longer races. but it would depend on how much longer practice was.. if you were only going to add two minutes to a practice session id still take the race. if you were going to add 15 minutes to the practice sessions i may have to change my mind.
If it was between a third morning practice session and longer races, I'd go with the practice.
If it was between a couple extra laps in practice or a couple extra laps in race, I'dgo with the race.
The rational is more sessions to sort the bike out would be ideal, even is the individual practice sessions were shorter.
Just my .02...
Just an opinion...
Practice time is nice at a new track, but once I know the layout I need to racing pace to inprove my times.
I often will NOT run all of the practice time for a few reasons...
1. To save myself and my tires for the Race
2. To many other riders out on the track
3. To go get that extra cup of coffee in the morning ;D
Give me more Racing laps... (I never preregister so I always start from the back)
More practice TIME (2 sessions), probably not, then go for the added race distance. Extra practice SESSION (3 total), then yes, more practice.
If you are like me and can't really be going to the practice days at each event, then 3 practices on race days can be a real help. Last year I was mainly doing Sunday only races (because Saturday was a normal work day for me last year), so 1 or sometimes 2 practice sessions for me on Sunday wasn't really enough. When we use to run 3 practices a few years ago, I would often times make more aggressive changes for the 2nd session, then tweak it in from there for the 3rd session. But I would sometimes skip 1 of those sessions too, if I was feeling good on the track that day. In my opinion 3 sessions also helped to reduce the number of people on the track at 1 time too, because some people don't like to go out for 1st session and waited till the 2nd and 3rd sessions, others ran the 1st two sessions then skipped the 3rd. If I was only going to run 2 sessions then I usually ran the 1st and 3rd ones because the 2nd session usually had the most riders in it.
3 practice sessions would be very, very cool...
3 practice sessions like when I started in 99:D
i say cut the number of race classes to maybe FIVE,
then lengthen each race by about 10 laps and have two practice sessions for each class. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
LOOOOOOONGGGGERRRRRR Races..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quotei say cut the number of race classes to maybe FIVE,
then lengthen each race by about 10 laps and have two practice sessions for each class. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I Like that!
Anthony, check your e-mail...a guy I have e-mailed with before is selling his Power Stroke bus...Might be more $$ than you want to spend, but you should look at it.
I couldn't place a vote, wazzup?
I'd vote for longer races for sure.
Longer races!!! :o
QuoteLonger races!!! :o
Ditto.
1.) I feel more productive using up tires in a race than in practice.
2.) I get such crummy starts I need the extra lap or two to catch up.
3.) I can practice all I want while staring out the window at work. :)
Longer races are more practice
QuoteLonger races are more practice
;D
I like his answer
Longer races!!!
Track days are for practice.
Race days are for racing.
Maybe a few of the immediate answers of "more race laps" wouldn't be so quick if they realized that setting up suspension can realy only be done during practice. You use that time to dial in your ride, not just going around the track. I see probably better than 80% or riders who never pull in and make a single change. Do you think that if M. "Wah Wah" Maladin just rode around the track at say....R.A. that he would be as quick to ride around everyone the way he has in the past had he not had a ton of practice and set up on that track?
With more race laps. If you would want a change that would mean pulling in and making a change and loosing a half or mabe a full lap on you competitors.
Ecu Mike you obviously have allot more disposable income than me, If I can afford to do track days and waste tires and my engines biological clock, I will just run more races!
Practice makes perfect... 3 rounds would definitely be better than two. However, I would NOT vote for shortening any races. The sprint races are short enough the way it is...
QuotePractice makes perfect... 3 rounds would definitely be better than two. However, I would NOT vote for shortening any races. The sprint races are short enough the way it is...
Yeah, I will vote that way too.
Woo-Hoo! Thanks Bill, that's 50/50.. game's all tied up...
Being new to ccs racing, and unable to find the info on the main page, how may laps are the sprint races now?? Unless ccs races are more than 10 laps, I prefer more race laps than practice.
QuoteBeing new to ccs racing, and unable to find the info on the main page, how may laps are the sprint races now?? Unless ccs races are more than 10 laps, I prefer more race laps than practice.
It depends... If you're at Gingerman, late in the season, it's raining and Ed Key wants to go home you just race from the start/finish to turn 1. :o :-X :-/ :-*
Other than that, they're 8 laps.
For sure more race laps...
The series we raced in this weekend only gave 2 practices each day, we got 6 laps in each practice. Then the race on sat was 18 laps.
It caught a lot of people out who were used to cruising around at 80% in practice to get going.
Hell, what was the Daytona AMA... ONE 40 min practice?
The standard at BlackHog, and GayWay is 8 laps in sprints and the experts get 23 laps in the half hour race. At Road America it is 5 laps in sprints and I can't remeber but I think they get about 17 laps in a half hour race.
AMA 40min. practice would get you allot of set up time. Just ask my friend Kevin Hanson. If I remember correctly, you get 3 of those 40 minute sessions plus qualifying a session throughout the 3 days for each specific event of racing. I have heard from a ton of experts that they received more track time for one race at an AMA event than they received from five races at the CCS weekends.
Well yeah Thorny! AMA doesn't try to run 17 races in a day though...
And.. 3 days they have, not 2
Longer races with mandatory pit stops.
QuoteLonger races with mandatory pit stops.
Pit stops? What for? Beer and cigarette break?
QuotePit stops? What for? Beer and cigarette break?
And if your over 40.... potty breaks! ;D
Longer races with mandatory pit stops.
Pit stops? What for? Beer and cigarette break?
You know. Well if you want, beer and cigarette breaks otherwise suspension tweaking and of course Dunlops. ;)
QuoteLonger races with mandatory pit stops.
Pit stops? What for? Beer and cigarette break?
You know. Well if you want, beer and cigarette breaks otherwise suspension tweaking and of course Dunlops. ;)
lol... isn't that what the team challenge is for? ;)
QuotePit stops? What for? Beer and cigarette break?
You still smokin? :-X
QuoteYou still smokin? :-X
Kevin! Damn haven't seen you in a long while. Heading up to RA? And yes.. still smoking. I do have to quit.
QuoteKevin! Damn haven't seen you in a long while. Heading up to RA? And yes.. still smoking. I do have to quit.
I'll see you there. Don't bring no smokes. :)
mandatory pitstops only if we are talking about 80 lap races ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
suppose i have to get my wife in training now.
get the stopwatch on her?????????
maybe she can refuel the bike, change the wheels,give me a drink(have to keep it clean), clean my visor and get me back out on the track quicker than heather(stumpy's wife) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
wouldn't that be interesting........the pit crew races........
isn't that nascar :o
Quotemaybe she can refuel the bike, change the wheels,give me a drink(have to keep it clean), clean my visor and get me back out on the track quicker than heather(stumpy's wife)
You forgot kiss on the cheek and pat on the butt!
Is it weird we had water bottle testing the other night? The free one from Fedex will work great!
Heather
Well Jeff if CCS has any bals they could get rid of some the classes that one or two riders line up for? In 91' when I started racing I think we ran 10 laps for sprints and the GTU's were not half hour races they were 25 lappers. With all the added classes for guys that are not buying what is the latest greatest each year, they have added classes to keep them able to ride and be kind of competitive. I ask whats next, are we going to seperate the yr, make, and models and so that the old gixxer doesn't have to go against the newest one? Heck if thats the case, I want to ride in the FZR 400 class, I used to to be silly fast on one of those.
QuoteWell Jeff if CCS has any bals they could get rid of some the classes that one or two riders line up for? In 91' when I started racing I think we ran 10 laps for sprints and the GTU's were not half hour races they were 25 lappers. With all the added classes for guys that are not buying what is the latest greatest each year, they have added classes to keep them able to ride and be kind of competitive. I ask whats next, are we going to seperate the yr, make, and models and so that the old gixxer doesn't have to go against the newest one? Heck if thats the case, I want to ride in the FZR 400 class, I used to to be silly fast on one of those.
I agree with you. It would definately be cool to have longer races by eliminating some of the classes.
Thorny, I don't disagree at all... The problem is that it's about the money... Less classes with longer races may in all likelihood bring in more money because of more people riding, but the logic is that more races = more entry fee = more money...
QuoteWell Jeff if CCS has any bals they could get rid of some the classes that one or two riders line up for? .
That's what they already did. That's the question, with the extra time do you want more practice or longer races?
Quote That's what they already did dipsh*t. That's the question, with the extra time do you want more practice or longer races?
I say get rid of everything except LWSS, LWGP, MWSS, MWGP, ULSS, and ULGP ;)
Quote That's what they already did dipsh*t. That's the question, with the extra time do you want more practice or longer races?
TZ boy... I'm not sure that you know who you are talking to. You don't want to insult Thorny... he isn't lil thorny. This is a family forum. Besides, you don't know exactly what you are talking about anyways.
Grow up.
Oh and I forgot. Tire usage is definatley an issue for
racers without burnable income, but I still agree with more practice time. I personally utilize practice with a buddy, someone who you can follow and play tag with, makes for good critique. Stumpy and I did that towards the end of the season at BHF last year, and we both improved lap times by about 2 sec's.
short races force you to bring your best.
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The need to make $ is a very valid point as to why CCS will never cut the classes down to a select few. But all that aside, what does everyone think is going to happen if CCS changes to, say, 3 classes per bike category (LW, MW, HW) for a total of 9 races??
What we'll have is the need to run qualifying and the sad fact that ALOT of people who have a dream of racing on a track will never get a chance to realize their dream :'( This isn't the big leagues, son-- Let's all get out there and just have fun ;D
Sorry about the insult, as far as being a family forum maybe the word bals shouldn't be used. This post is about the fact that CCS has eliminated classes that had low entry's and is trying to decide what to do with the extra time which could be 10 lap sprint's.
Tz Boy I will bet you wouldn't come up to me and call me a dip $hit to my face, I ain't Aaron Yates, I know how to install respect!
A family forum aint a place to flex your muscles. Are we in high school again? ???
From what I saw at the last race at Firebird east, they could cut 4 or 5 more classes out that have low entries and increase the laps in the race, and that alone would most likely be enough to draw more riders from other organizations.
Its all about track time right??
The most entrered race at the first WERA west event was the 16 lap solo race on saturday. Its pretty cool to get to run at AMA race distance, and Im willing to bet a lot of guys think so....
TZ boy.... I told you! LOL. ;D
Thorny, I agree with more practice, but I also think that we/CCS would loose money/racers if we were to limit the classes. We don't have to worry in that we
run Middleweight mainly, but then again I also agree
that a field of 2-3 riders is maybe a waste of time, that could be utilized for practice or an extra lap during sprints. What is up with the motard scooter races too? I didn't get that. those should be run on friday or something! :-/
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I agree SuperDuck, but some people choose to bad mouth one another to dispay their intelligence. I think message boards and the majority of the people are for gossip hounds not for information. I thought this thread was interesting because we all have complained about the practice time, I have only heard people talk about longer races when their setup was way off and once that adapted to the crappy set up they got a little faster, which all that can be solved with more set-up, or as I call it PRACTICE!!!
QuoteI agree SuperDuck, but some people choose to bad mouth one another to dispay their intelligence. I think message boards and the majority of the people are for gossip hounds not for information. I thought this thread was interesting because we all have complained about the practice time, I have only heard people talk about longer races when their setup was way off and once that adapted to the crappy set up they got a little faster, which all that can be solved with more set-up, or as I call it PRACTICE!!!
Couldn't agree with you more but you still gotta take an internet BBS for what it is. It provides us with entertainment and at times some useful information. I'm all for both more practice and longer races. I do need more than 2 sessions to set my bike up as far as the jetting goes as well as anything else and I'm sure you're in the same boat since you race a 125 if I recall correctly. For me, longer races would allow me to make up for my horrible starts. I tend to get going pretty good around lap 4 so extending a sprint race to 10 laps would allow me to go full out for more laps which would benefit me in terms of position on the track. I'm sure we've all had times where we thought that if we had one or two more laps that we would've beat so and so.
This thread is about the fact that CCS has eliminated classes and is going to add 1 lap to the sprint races, in this thread you posted that if CCS had any bals they would eliminate some classes and make the race's longer. Are you confused?
I regret the name calling that is why I edited my post and apologized. I am confused about the confrontation though, am I supposed to be Yates or Fania?
As far as tire consumption is concerned that is the reason many racer's choose not to race the latest and greatest 600 or bigger. This is club racing isn't it?
Longer races please...
For those that want more practice, there seem to be plenty of track days available.
unless i missed it, it doesnt appear as if we got any clarification as to how much additional practice time we would get.. there are enough people who are on the fence to which they would prefer to the degree it may change the results of the poll.
I'm just glad I'm not Kevin. It seems everbody agrees about half of us will disagree with his decision.
My 2 cents. At club level, we only do this maybe once or twice a month and practice might add safety by getting everybody a little more re-acclamated before the green flag.
QuoteLonger races please...
For those that want more practice, there seem to be plenty of track days available.
Paul, not all people have the ability to utilize track days. Nor can they get the time off to do so. What good does a longer race do if you aren't set-up proper? It only wastes your money and tires. Think about it, 2/10th's of a second slower during a 10 lap sprint = 2 seconds lost by the end of the race. When
more than likely, -2/10th's could have been shaved by some additional practice time. That's to say if you utilize your practice time wisely. Also, track days
won't help if conditions change from one day to the next. Or don't you agree with race day conditions factoring into the bikes handling? I'm merely trying to convey an advantage to having some additional practice, not trying to disagree with anyone. Then
again, it all gets washed away in the rain if the track is green. ;)
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lil_thorny,
This is still club racing. Only the front runners are going to be changing the bike a lot between/during practice sessions. Therefore the value for the majority of club racers is in longer races. Besides, like I said in another note on this site, more people have the same mentality when they are on the track during a race than during practice = the track is safer to ride during a race than during practice.
Your point about the track days not being useful, isn't that what Dunlop and Michelin do for the teams they support. I'm sure the bulk of their work in done during those activities, rather than during a race weekend. I think race weekends are for fine tuning only.
Quoteunless i missed it, it doesnt appear as if we got any clarification as to how much additional practice time we would get.. there are enough people who are on the fence to which they would prefer to the degree it may change the results of the poll.
Sorry, I should have made it more explicit when I asked Dawn to set up the poll. The trade is one additional lap of in all the scheduled sprint races vice 1 or possibly 2 more laps of practice in each group.
At the CCS MA & SE venues, we might run practice on Sunday up until the lunch/quiet hour and all 15 sprints after lunch instead of running 2 races prior to lunch, but then the races would be held to 7 laps at VIR & Summit, for example. Its hard to beat the clock. 15 races x 2minutes30seconds(slowest times) / (5 practice groups * 2 sessions each) = 4minutes30seconds (1 or 2 laps) per practice group, but not additional sessions.
I still say don't shorten the races.
As I said before... track days are for practice.
shorter races..that way i can smoke a cigarette sooner..with longer practise, i can take a break midway, come in for a smoke break then get back out there
OH ya and argueing on the internet is like winning the special olympics...even if you win your still retarded
Quoteshorter races..that way i can smoke a cigarette sooner..with longer practise, i can take a break midway, come in for a smoke break then get back out there
Good point! ;D ;D
QuotePaul, not all people have the ability to utilize track days. Nor can they get the time off to do so. What good does a longer race do if you aren't set-up proper? It only wastes your money and tires. Think about it, 2/10th's of a second slower during a 10 lap sprint = 2 seconds lost by the end of the race. When
more than likely, -2/10th's could have been shaved by some additional practice time. That's to say if you utilize your practice time wisely. Also, track days
won't help if conditions change from one day to the next. Or don't you agree with race day conditions factoring into the bikes handling? I'm merely trying to convey an advantage to having some additional practice, not trying to disagree with anyone. Then
again, it all gets washed away in the rain if the track is green. ;)
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Good discussion. I agree that practicing on different days in different conditions will yield different results. Good point about not all racers being able to afford the cost and time off of extra track days. My point is this...
There are only so many race days available. There are many more opportunities for open track time and practice. Race days are for racing. Track days are for practice and set up. Morning practice on CCS race days is best used to get your head up to speed, scrub in tires, bed in brake pads, and make final decisions on minor gearing and suspension set up changes based on the conditions. There isn't really time to do much else.
Since we're really only talking about 2-3 extra laps of practice time or 1 extra lap of racing, I still would choose the extra lap of racing. Unless I'm leading the race coming out of the final turn, I'm always disappointed to see the checkered flag come out...
QuoteOH ya and argueing on the internet is like winning the special olympics...even if you win your still retarded
Maybe you should try volunteering there sometime.
It's more rewarding than any race I've ever won.
hey quicktit...... >:( oops, i meant quicktoy.
if you want me to leave you in a position where the only sport you can participate in , is the SPECIAL OLYMPICS , keep talking like that.
i will gladly disfigure and dismember you so you may experience disability for yourself.
think about this,,,,,,
disabled people are on this world to show the rest of us how lucky we really are, no matter how bad we think we have it.
Having raced AMA and FormulaUSA (when it was just one class), practice sessions of less than about 30 minutes do not really allow much experimenting with set up. Adding a couple laps to our current practices will not allow enough time to any significant changes (ride height, springs, fork oil level) during a practice session. At tracks like Blackhawk, the Friday practice days are not too expensive and you have much more time to try a multitude of changes. This is a club racers version of testing. Practice days prior to a race weekend are invaluable. Race weekends are really not for significant testing.
How many racers keep notes from each race weekend? I have notes for my TZ, I use them to get my bike in the ballpark and use practice for any fine tuning. I find notes to be extemely valuable. I gave Jack some copies of my set up sheets, he put them on his website (sliderphoto.com), but said there was very little interest.
I have a new bike for this season, I have already signed up for the NESBA day at RA to work on setup because there will not be enough time on Friday (one of the downsides to teaching riders school - students come first, your own racing is secondary). I plan on doing some fridays at Blackhawk for the same reason.
Speaking of notes (which I'll be taking alot of now that I got my 125)... once you've been to a track, if you take notes, the next time you're there, presumably, the less work and notes/setup you have to do. So the more often you're at the same track, the easier it should be to setup and dial the bike in for that track. (If you do that sorta stuff)
Great points. Well said Moto...
There have been many a time when I needed just one more lap. I say get the corner workers out on the track sooner ;)
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Let's have more RedBull consumption in the pits all weekend, sos to see more fireworks in our own special olympics. :-X
More practice time or longer races? Either way we're gonna have more fun. Friends and relatives see the time and effort we've put into this sport, $$$, and think I'm "special". I'm just getting into this thing so I say longer races. If we're still around in a year or two and have invested with GMD, Kyle, Lindemann, or whoever, maybe I'll be saying more practice/set-up time.
Either way, what are the results of this polling? Are we actually going to see longer races or practice?
People gotta learn not to take everything to heart..its a joke and believe me, im not the first person to say it
Quiktoy, where you racen this year?
which region?
quicktoy,
it's just that some things hit home more than you might think and what you said was better left unsaid.
disability is no joke.
i took offense to your remark, even though it was implied as a joke. it is not a case of people learning not to take everything to heart, but a case of people realising that they are being offensive to others.
just my 2 cents,
and i apoligise for threatening to leave you in a state of disability.
its no problem bro..im a goof ball and make off the wall comments all the time
This is a comment ive been hearing for years in chat rooms and on bulletin boards. I even had a few people who only go on this chat board call me and tell methey thought the comment was hilarious..not meant to offend andyone and im sorry to those it did
to lil thorny, we're running southeast..do i know u?
hey by you thinking that the joke is funny enough to repeat it, just shows how tasteless you are... well I did notice your trailer and what it says on it... funny but kinda tasteless ;D so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised :P
ccs 243, thanks. with that said i still say longer races. it gives us guys who wait til the last minute to register a better chance of getting up front.
Quotehey by you thinking that the joke is funny enough to repeat it, just shows how tasteless you are... well I did notice your trailer and what it says on it... funny but kinda tasteless ;D so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised :P
Thats kinda funny, cause everyone begs us for stickers and tshirts cause everyone loves our slogan
QuoteThats kinda funny, cause everyone begs us for stickers and tshirts cause everyone loves our slogan
then everyone who asked you are tasteless ::)
besides, if your slogan holds true, shouldn't we ALL be dead? :P
I hope you don't take this too seriously ;)
Quotebesides, if your slogan holds true, shouldn't we ALL be dead? :P
Doh! What a slam! :o ;D LMAO!
not at all bro..its all in good fun, thats why i didnt mean to offend anyone with the argueing quote
Quick toy...
e-mail me @ xray6674@aol.com with an e-mail address.... I have a question for you about your bike....
thanks
lil-thorny.
Looks pretty even to me, so we will start out with a little of both in most places....Blackhawk will stay at 8 laps, but with more practice until we see if the day gets done too early, then we will add a lap to every race. Summit and VIR will go to 8 laps (from 7) and add about 40 minutes to the practice time on Sunday morning.
After the first couple of events in each region, we will ask you to give your input once again.
Thanks to Art and Dawn for posing the question, it pretty much confirmed what we suspected, that there was no clear-cut preference EXCEPT more track time for everyone.
thanks Kevin...
now we could just eliminate those silly scooter races LOL.
Benji T.
Thanks CCS.
CCS, that is cool. so will the sprint races at vir on april 9/10 now be 8 lap sprints? that will be very cool.
Quotethanks Kevin...
now we could just eliminate those silly scooter races LOL.
Benji T.
Exactly. Let them get their own weekend.:D But if ya keep them, WE WANT OUR WEGMAN PITBIKE RACES BACK!!! ;D
QuoteCCS, that is cool. so will the sprint races at vir on april 9/10 now be 8 lap sprints? that will be very cool.
According to the schedule, yes... http://www.formulausa.com/shows/pdf/sch_vir_040410.pdf
I believe that you will also find that the two races scheduled prior to the lunch break will be rescheduled to the afternoon.