Looks like Arron Yates may not get off with a talking too by the AMA.
Via e-mail:
At 8:00 a.m. this morning, March 8, 2004, Anthony Fania, Jr. filed an affidavit with the State Attorney's Office in Daytona detailing the assault.
Anthony Fania, Sr.
Somerset, New Jersey
I don't think getting the courts involved in this kind of incident is a good thing for our sport. JMO. :-/
QuoteI don't think getting the courts involved in this kind of incident is a good thing for our sport. JMO. :-/
Yeah, I would look for other satisfaction... like free coaching for my riding... ;D ;D
Yep, just what racing needs is another "frivolous" lawsuit! Get the attorney's involved! I guess that shows Fania's true colors? ???
HD
That's a tough call.
Totally different situation, but my bosses ignored a coworker's drug and alchohol problem until it thrust itself under the nose of law enforcement during work hours. Then they were forced to react in a major way. They fired the man, and he then went home and comitted suicide. Would earlier acknowledgement of the problem have led to a better result? Who knows? But the man was running heavy equipment, and management looked the other way until major property damage brought it to the attention of the law. He could have just as easily killed a citizen or coworker instead of damaging property. Thank God it didn't come to that.
Food for thought. If Faina had been getting up with a cracked vertibra in his neck, Yates' actions might have paralysed or killed him. Do you ignore that?
QuoteYep, just what racing needs is another "frivolous" lawsuit! Get the attorney's involved! I guess that shows Fania's true colors? ???
HD
since when does one seeking legal protection under the laws of the land a bad thing? Whether the suit has merit or not is up to the courts to decide. Isn't it a bit presumptious and premateur to be making such a statement?
By the way, assult charges are not civil charges, so it seems they are seeking criminal justice, not civil damages (yet). If calling the police and then pressing charges are "frivolous" lawsuits, then I don't think we will ever see a "justifiable" lawsut.
Fania's true colors? Why does it sound like me you are trying to say he is a bad man? I may have read it wrong...
you make it sound like if anyone seek protection under law, he is a bad guy.
I've been wrestling with the whole incident.
1 Yates is known for knocking people down unnecessarly
2 When in a race, I don't think anybody's brain is working like it normally does. Adrenalin does wierd things.
3 What is Anthony Fania to do? If he goes to the pits and hits him with a pipe, he's the bad guy and will be in big trouble. But that much abuse should not go unanswered. Yosh should have immediatly offered him a bike or something to make things right.
It's just UGLY all around.
If Mr Fania could be assured that AMA Pro Racing would handle this matter fairly and justly, I bet charges would not need to be filed.
Since AMA Pro racing is not being trusted, it makes sense to be proactive.
In NASCAR, the trend has been to handle these situations internaly. Fines are levied, anger management classes are required. The driver in question is on probation. Sometimes I have seen a suspension too.
It is obvious that Yates behavior is not common at the proffesional level. AMA Pro Racing most likely does not have a precedent to fall back on. Hopefully what ever they decide upon will go the same for a privateer if a privateer is in a similar situation.
Additionally, if there is a fine, I hope it is in line with our sport ($25,000 may be fine for NASCAR, not for AMA Pro Racing. Can you imagine a privateer paying that?)
adrenalin make you do things yes, but grown man should have some control of his actions. Try the adrenalin theory in court and see what they say. You are supposed to have full control of yourself, even in life or death situations, to fail to do so carry consequences.
The word is the Yosh team acted as thugs in the pits... something needs to be done here
in other sports, there are player unions. So the union can be involved in making the org do the right thing, and they can help avoid lawsuits and charges.
suspension is the best punishment here. Not able to race means no pay and no bonus, it would teach the next guy who wants to act a fool, that he looses more by acting like a moron. Instead of 1 race and points, it would be multiple. And it may danger his future.
Matt, I tend to agree with you.
R6philly, there you go again! This time you agree with the route of "frivilous civil suits" and assault charges. In my book you and those that agree with that type of action are showing their "true colors"! I think I had you "pegged" correctly the last time we disagreed on a topic. You were wrong then and you're wrong now. You need a good attorney! ;D
HD
HD, I'm not getting in the middle, but what would you do?
Let the AMA act. Law suits and assault charges are as "nuts" as Yates actions.
HD
throw him in to turn one at moroso canal and cool him down. a goog gator bite on the ass. hey henry how ya doin. 227 here.
throw him in to turn one at moroso canal and cool him down. a good gator bite on the ass. hey henry how ya doin. 227 here.
It was a track incident. Regardless of who's fault it was, it doesn't justify an assault, and Yates assaulted Fania in front of millions of witnesses. Yates needs an attorney to defend his criminal action. A civil lawsuit would not be good for the sport, with the precedents it could establish, but a criminal complaint seems justified.
I had watched in admiration Yates' performance on the underpowered Suzuki in the SS race. He can be a great racer, but he obviously can also be a jerk.
I just read on another board Suzuki fined him $25,000!
I think that the other rider should have let the AMA handle what happened.He just gave the sport another big kick in the balls by going to the state attorney office >:( >:( >:( >:(
QuoteI think that the other rider should have let the AMA handle what happened.He just gave the sport another big kick in the balls by going to the state attorney office >:( >:( >:( >:(
why you say that? police were called by track security for the confrontations in the pits. Police reports were taken and filed. Then the involved probably was requested by the state attorney general's office to file an affidavid, an official account of what happened. The police were involved, they have their procedures, and if a law has been broken, it needs to be prosecuted. I don't care if it is good or bad for the sport, if a law was broken then someone should live with the consequenses.
It was reported that Yosh team broke a monitor in the Fania pit. Apparently it is a thug org. Cycle news has a good report.
QuoteMatt, I tend to agree with you.
R6philly, there you go again! This time you agree with the route of "frivilous civil suits" and assault charges. In my book you and those that agree with that type of action are showing their "true colors"! I think I had you "pegged" correctly the last time we disagreed on a topic. You were wrong then and you're wrong now. You need a good attorney! ;D
HD
Henry henry henry, actually last time you apologized because I was caught in the words, you took your anger out on me even though it was for someone else ;D
Police were called, they have to investigate, and as a citizen we all have the right to see charges filed and justice served. It isn't about right or wrong, it is about our individual rights. If Yates did not break a law, he would be accquited. If Yates did, then why is Fania doing wrong?
So for the good of the sport we should all bent over and take it in the a$$ whenever possible?
Wait, Fania was bent over and did take one in the a$$ ;D I think he can do whatever the heck he wants, as long as it is legal and within his rights.
For all of you think it is NO big deal. I will pay you to go do the same to a cop on the street. To any cop. See what happens to you. Call me in 6 to 10 and tell me assult only counts when someone gets hurt
QuoteYep, just what racing needs is another "frivolous" lawsuit! Get the attorney's involved! I guess that shows Fania's true colors? ???
HD
I don't believe this is a lawsuit. This is a criminal charge of assault.
I think it's a good precedent to set: if you do something illegal at the track, the cops will be called, just like any other place. I think that it's good that people are charged with criminal violations when they punch up their kid's little league coach, too.
Just the $.02 of a lurker...
danch
R6philly, you call that assault? Give me a break. Yates made himself look stupid. Head butt to helmet and missed drop kick, I'll bet that really hurt? You want to sue him for taking Fania out? That was a major racing blunder but maybe you think a suit might be in order? You won't get an apology this time. Can I retract the apology I gave you before? Because now you're showing "your real colors" and I was right the last time about you! I've seen a lot worse in NASCAR and other organizations that don't get to this level of "lunacy"! Maybe you could get into professional wrestling. There's got to be some great law suits there for you and your "suit happy" friends! Let the AMA do their job. They are the only ones that can do anything reasonable about it. And if you happen to disagree with their decision, so be it!
HD
HD
QuoteIn NASCAR, the trend has been to handle these situations internaly. Fines are levied, anger management classes are required. The driver in question is on probation. Sometimes I have seen a suspension too.
Actually Jimmy Spenser got arrested for him punching another driver in the paddock after a race last year. Ended up with probation AFAIK. NAPCAR also did some penalties on their own.
As for criminal charges against Yates, definately. Its still battery even if he barely touched him. Civil suit for this on the other hand, well I dont think thats warranted IMO. And more than likely Yates would probably only get community service and probation (unless he already had a previous arrest for it).
QuoteR6philly, you call that assault? Give me a break. Yates made himself look stupid. Head butt to helmet and missed drop kick, I'll bet that really hurt? You want to sue him for taking Fania out? That was a major racing blunder but maybe you think a suit might be in order? You won't get an apology this time. Can I retract the apology I gave you before? Because now you're showing "your real colors" and I was right the last time about you! I've seen a lot worse in NASCAR and other organizations that don't get to this level of "lunacy"! Maybe you could get into professional wrestling. There's got to be some great law suits there for you and your "suit happy" friends! Let the AMA do their job. They are the only ones that can do anything reasonable about it. And if you happen to disagree with their decision, so be it!
HD
HD
henry, there is a different between a police investigation and a suit.
The state attorney can and do sometimes file charges without anyone pressing the charges.
In an assult case, it would be Aaron Yates against The state of Florida, not Anthony Fania. Fania filed an official statement under the request of FL state attorney in case crinimal/court proceedings are pursued. It is pretty much up to the state attorney to move on the case.
Remember, civil complains are not filed with the state attorneys office, they are filed in common pleas court or similar.
If monitor and other propertiues are destroyed/damaged and not compensated by the yosh team, KWS team can also file civil suit to recoup the losses.
A law suit is only frivolous if an absurb amount of money is requested as intangible "damages". Crinimal proceedings are never frivolous, if it is, the State of Florida will not participate.
And Henry, why is that if I disagree with you on one thing, I am automatically wrong in everything else? If I race in Florida region and was protested, are you giong to rule against me just because I am me? I don't know how I have offended you so far? difference of opinion doesn't have to become personal dislikes. If I was living in Florida, am I not welcome to race at your event now?
at no time did I agree with a civil suit, I was just stating crinimal proceedings should be allowed to continue, not that you can stop it if state of FL decides to go ahead with it.
A civil suit seeking property damages from the pit incident is possible, and I don't have a problem with that. I just agree with what is fair, no more no less.
a suit seeking emotional, or other damages would be out of line, but we are not talking about that here. No need to jump on it without fulling clearing what we are talking about here
QuoteLet the AMA act. Law suits and assault charges are as "nuts" as Yates actions.
HD
That's like letting Janklow's appeals for early release being heard by the judges that he put in to positions.
Isn't Mel Harris of American Suzuki on the AMA board. I think the strings might be pulled...
But there is a lot of outcrying from the public. Might be time for someone to be used as an example.
QuoteI think that the other rider should have let the AMA handle what happened.He just gave the sport another big kick in the balls by going to the state attorney office >:( >:( >:( >:(
How many of us believe the AMA would have done something on their own?
Without the potential action by Mr Fania to take reasonable action for crimial charges, I almost doubt that anything would have happened.
Certainly, if we make our own responsible for their actions, we show that we're responsible for our actions.
I got smashed by a stupid Englishman in Turn One when he got spooked. Wasn't my bike. It was a priceless Team Hansen Honda CB450 that I was on. I was pretty excited, but I certainly didn't think about going and pounding on the dummy.
I think most people act that way, right?
Failure to control yourself in a manner that is consistent with the parameters of proper actions will land you with problems.
I'm sorry, but if you're gonna do something so dumb...And be on TV?
He'll be charged, and he'll probably be convicted of some kind of misdemeanor because he was a dummy.
Flopping down on the track, throwing gravel on a race track...those are dumb things too. Just all over due since some people can't seem to understand that the rest of the world's racers understand how to act like adults.
Do we need that in the AMA/FUSA/WERA rule books?..."Act like an adult."
I think it's very well put "How many of us believe the AMA would have done something on their own?"
If a potential civil suit forces the AMA to do something about it, good! The AMA should be pro-active in dealing with issues, but from past examples it is far too possible that they may let this one 'slide' with a slap on the wrist.
And finally, the whole idea that the sport doesn't need this...as they say in politics: 'any publicity is good publicity' :o Who knows, maybe we'll get more people interested just because of a little controversy?
Nobody injured in the incident following Yates/Fania crash. Keep the attorneys out of racing as much as possible and let the AMA do their job. You guys are acting like a pack of "jackals"!
R6philly, we don't hold grudges down here just because you're on the wrong side of an issue like this. You can expect to be treated just like anybody else that competes. That, I promise you. :-*
HD
my .02c that i posted at JenningsGP.com
1) I know im not in the majority here.. but there still is somethin said for Fania potentially not turning in when he should have to make the turn. I see fania still upright when Yates is comming over on top of his wheel, shitty pass?? you bet, but i think there was a chance the 2 riders could have turned in but the closing/pass speed, yikes!!
2) Fania was partially to blame for the head butt!! YES! (you read correctly-yes.) he had a choice to just keep on a walkin after Yates did the very very fake drop kick. But he instead got in his face and gestured and for sure gave Yates a piece of his mind.. head butt commin atcha.. NO worse than some stock car guys argueing about who took who out and comming to a pushing match.. THESE GUYS were NOT playing tiddly-winks!! they had been racing at perhaps the most prestigous road race in america, and it went wrong in the blink of an eye.. tempers are gonna flare! BOTH guys were wrong and im thinking Yates simply thought Fania shoulda tipped in, i think he freaked and stood it up.. I HAVE DONE IT so i know the feeling that Fania was experiencing..
FLAME AWAY
:)
Poor choice of words from one should be responded by...well, words. A head butt, kick, slap, or anything phyisical is not a proper response.
In reality, a man would have walked away.
Didn't Yates start the confrontation with the poorly executed flying drop kick?
As for the converging lines...
The lines that a full Yoshimura Suzuki would take before the apex would be a little different than something less. Regardless, the slowest speeds would probably be close to being similar.
There in is where the problem always is. In a superbike race, the riders are pretty good. So, the mid corner speeds can be similar. How the bike reacts and the line that reaches that point when you're dealing with machines that are not similar is the problem. 200HP with works Showa forks, brakes, Works Suzuki Swingarm, etc...vs 150 with KYB forks with worked over internals, aftermarket shock, etc...
The first rule in any form of racing is that the guy in front has the "right of way." Fania was in front. Yates' decision on which line to follow did one of two things: 1) converged into Fania's line 2) Fania made a minor error that caused his line to go wider than normal, thus traveling into the potential line that Yates was trying to follow. Mind you, he wasn't there yet...he was still behind Fania.
Regardless, doesn't everyone recognize that he should have gone up the inside where Yates would have been the safest? Certainly, I do, and I'm sure most people do. Yates picked the wrong way to pass thus reducing his reasonable margin of safety. All he had to do was finish, right? Everyone's tire was worn by now. It's still debateable if Fania actually went wide. Whether he did or not really doesn't even matter. He was in front, Yates picked the wrong line, riders collided. That would have been it under racing circumstances, right?
But, Yates took us out of the honorable "that's racing" world by throwing a hissy fit, one which I wouldn't expect my five or seven year old to do.
That really has nothing to do with racing.
If he finished fourth, would we have looked at the books written about Daytona with great admiration on how well he rode? No, it wasn't any kind of a stellar performance. But his lack of moral judgement is inexcuseable.
If his mom or dad got into an accident with someone, would he want someone to treat them the way he did Mr Fania?
Maybe that's the guide on this one.
Well since this is such a heated topic I might as well touch it too.
The problem I see with Yates actions being justified is that they are justified by the racing actions. Who hit who, who was at fault, who provoked who is all outside of the issue that is truly trying to be dealt with.
That issue, is a physical action taken towards one person. Whether it happened at the track, on the street, in a bar or wherever. It was a physical attack, one that was carried out only by Yates. Forget for a moment that this even happened in racing. Two guys got into an argument, words and jestures were exchanged, but only 1 of those two people took it to a physical level. That's a fact! Even after the physical actions were taken, none were returned by Fania. Now if we look at well he wasn't hurt, ok well again take it to a bar situation. Two guys get into an argument, make jestures, talk about each others moms, one of them pulls a gun and shoots, but misses the person. Does that reduce the fact that it was an attempt, is it then only going through the motions?
Bottom line is, the issue isn't about racing it happened at a race and that is too bad. The issue is whether or not it is acceptable in any situation to take physical action because of the circumstances. If you look at that, and you can still say yes I find that acceptable then you are at least looking at the true issue. Of course then you have to ask how far is ok? Fists are ok, clubs aren't, clubs are ok, but guns aren't? Where do you draw the line?
I'm not saying one way or the other, just throwing ideas out there. My opinion is my opinion doesn't make it any more right or wrong only our society can decide what is right or wrong. Whether that society is the social one that involves everyone or a subset such as the racing community.
If we (we beeing the racing community) stand behind decisions, then we (again the racing community) have to accept the results of those actions, and we have to do that as a whole, not just one or two of us.
One last thing, is a crime only a crime if the circumstances don't allow you to feel compasion for the person that did it?
QuotePoor choice of words from one should be responded by...well, words. A head butt, kick, slap, or anything phyisical is not a proper response.
In reality, a man would have walked away.
Didn't Yates start the confrontation with the poorly executed flying drop kick?
As for the converging lines...
The lines that a full Yoshimura Suzuki would take before the apex would be a little different than something less. Regardless, the slowest speeds would probably be close to being similar.
There in is where the problem always is. In a superbike race, the riders are pretty good. So, the mid corner speeds can be similar. How the bike reacts and the line that reaches that point when you're dealing with machines that are not similar is the problem. 200HP with works Showa forks, brakes, Works Suzuki Swingarm, etc...vs 150 with KYB forks with worked over internals, aftermarket shock, etc...
The first rule in any form of racing is that the guy in front has the "right of way." Fania was in front. Yates' decision on which line to follow did one of two things: 1) converged into Fania's line 2) Fania made a minor error that caused his line to go wider than normal, thus traveling into the potential line that Yates was trying to follow. Mind you, he wasn't there yet...he was still behind Fania.
Regardless, doesn't everyone recognize that he should have gone up the inside where Yates would have been the safest? Certainly, I do, and I'm sure most people do. Yates picked the wrong way to pass thus reducing his reasonable margin of safety. All he had to do was finish, right? Everyone's tire was worn by now. It's still debateable if Fania actually went wide. Whether he did or not really doesn't even matter. He was in front, Yates picked the wrong line, riders collided. That would have been it under racing circumstances, right?
But, Yates took us out of the honorable "that's racing" world by throwing a hissy fit, one which I wouldn't expect my five or seven year old to do.
That really has nothing to do with racing.
If he finished fourth, would we have looked at the books written about Daytona with great admiration on how well he rode? No, it wasn't any kind of a stellar performance. But his lack of moral judgement is inexcuseable.
If his mom or dad got into an accident with someone, would he want someone to treat them the way he did Mr Fania?
Maybe that's the guide on this one.
I agree with everything your saying, what i posted above was an opinion.. I have not read anything about the fact that it is POSSIBLE that Yates was still a little loopy from just having crashed into a tire barrier at pretty high speed.. it is POSSIBle his judjement was impared. I still think that everyone trying to bring general public behavior into a race environment and not excusing SOME behavior however poor it was, is not putting ones self in the racers position. Again. just my opinion, yates shouldnt a done it but Fania "fanned the flames" with words no doubt..
You all have my permission to give me a head but provided my helmet is on if you think im silly :)
QuoteIt was reported that Yosh team broke a monitor in the Fania pit. Apparently it is a thug org. Cycle news has a good report.
Don't put too much into what you read or was reported. We were pitted a few spots down from the KSW team. Although there was some extra activity between the two teams I can tell you that the reporting of it has been somewhat sensationalized. As far as the broken monitor it's not like the Yosh guys went running under their EZ-up grabbed the TV and smashed it on the ground.
Yes, a monitor was broken but a more accurate description should include "while a heated debate was going on between members of the two teams". I think it basically just got knocked off the table while members from the respective teams were positioning themselfs and yelling/pointing/ restraining others etc.
Basically nothing more than a very heated debate. Sorry I can't put fault with just Yosh with this.
Yate's behavior is another story. Totally uncalled for and it should be dealt with very severely. Even though Fania did not hold his line and came out on him. Fania was so far on the inside that there is no way that Yates could have even attempted to pass him anywhere else but on the outside. When Yate's went on the outside Fania came out on him.
Plain and simple it can be described as just one of those racing incidents. Yate's behavior afterwards was uncalled for.
QuoteFania was so far on the inside that there is no way that Yates could have even attempted to pass him anywhere else but on the outside. When Yate's went on the outside Fania came out on him.
Everyone recognizes that this happened in the West Horseshoe...
The radius of the corner is not the same as the International Horseshoe.
Forever, riders have always exited the kink stayed on the right side of the track, started braking. Then the track drops away from you quite dramatically in a straight line just before the center of what should the the middle of this 180 degree corner. Everyone "drifts wide" there, and you always set yourself up tight against the inside curbing so you can gas it hard picking the bike up at the exit so that you don't get tossed by the seams at the exit and the off camber spot at the edge of the track.
Isn't the crash almost immaterial?
Yates isn't being fined for hitting anyone, right or wrong. He was a stupid, spoiled 11 year old kid on a sugar high.
And if we're gonna claim him as being impared...then no rider should ever race during a weekend when they do fall...they might be impared too.
I agree with lbk on many things in his last post. The whole "bar" analogy is correct. It is a shame that this happened at a very prestigious, and televised roadrace. Too bad for the sport.....or is it??
Someone else (sorry, I forgot who) posted that bad publicity is still publicity. Just look at Janet Jackson. Who, by the way, just launched her own line of clothing. Her whole family was taking abuse by the press due to her brother Michael. Funny...after the whole Superbowl incident that the Michael news seem to make it to the backburner from the frontlines. Well executed.
I know that this wasn't a ploy for publicity, obviously, so don't read into that here.
Whether the drop kick was completed or not is inmaterial because the perception was there...and it made him look bad, real bad. Then he finished it off with a headbutt and a body check.
HD, I don't know you, and no offense personnally, but what if I was to do that to you, anywhere, however effective?? What would YOU do?? I can assume that if you didn't try to go back at me (like Fania DIDN't do to Yates) that you would be seeking charges as well. It really doesn't matter that it happened at a race, it's just very unfortunate that it did.
Dafan is correct in saying that a civil suit for emotional damages would be wrong. However, if Suzuki doesn't penny-up for the damages to Fania's pits that their team caused (as they should) then a suit for the damages are justified. Again, just unfortunate that this happened at a race.
I'm in law enforcement, not a cop, per se. In the past, my emotions led me to do things that were on the fence, or even off the wall of being morally acceptable by my peers (no they weren't illegal, just probably "bad example" type things). I am now a Supervisor. Recently, I had an employee actually try to out-run me and one other agent while attempting a traffic stop. He was off-duty in his POV. When we got him to stop finally, My adrenalin had me wanting to drag him through his car window by his head. Probably wouldn't have hurt him, but I would have made my point and I, of course, would have felt better for doing it. Point is, I realized that in the forum that I was in, at the level that I am at, I am expected to act professionally, regardless of the situation and my personnal feelings at that time. I made the right choice, Aaron didn't.
This wouldn't even be an issue IF we could only trust that the AMA would do their job. And with some sort of consistancy whether the presedence was set at Daytona '04 or in the past.
Sorry for the long post. :-X :-/
QuoteIsn't the crash almost immaterial?
Yates isn't being fined for hitting anyone, right or wrong. He was a stupid, spoiled 11 year old kid on a sugar high.
And if we're gonna claim him as being impared...then no rider should ever race during a weekend when they do fall...they might be impared too.
Yate's antics are rather silly. I have it on my DVR and can break it down frame by frame. It's right out of an old Three Stooges movie, I swear. I still can't believe it.
As far as this all goes, I cannot imagine why the AMA is sitting on their hands. They fined Mladin at one time for saying disparaging things about the AMA, they fined Jason DiSalvo for ignoring a red flag on Sunday.
IF they want to protect their integrity, they need to come down with a decision today. If Mr. Fania wants to press criminal charges, that's his business, and he's waffled on his story a few times. But the tape is clear, Yates was in a rage; he needs anger managment courses, a suspension, and perhaps an additional fine.
All of these finer points of who caused the crash are irrelevant. Bad decisions were made. The real lack of professionalism shown by Yates needs discipline, or other riders will think it's ok for whatever reason. Personally I like to see good battles on the track. not off track nonsense. If I wanted to watch fights, I get myself some WWF tapes or watch a hockey game.
Put him in front of a panel of his peers/fellow racers and let them decide his 'punishment'. They are the ones who have to race with him/be the brunt of his anger.
The guy lost his head in the heat of the moment. Like none of you have ever done that. ::) I think a 1 race suspension is more than enough. I've seen some of YOU get a bit more than just slightly bent at the regional races for the same crap. Imagine that.
QuotePut him in front of a panel of his peers/fellow racers and let them decide his 'punishment'. They are the ones who have to race with him/be the brunt of his anger.
I think that's the best opinion I've heard on this. Let everyone who was a participant in the 200, factory riders and privateers alike, get together with the AMA and decide what should happen.
Decreasing Dave, funny you should ask what I would do if I was ever in the same situation. Indeed I was in a very similar situation at an AMA F-1 National at Loudon, NH in the early 1980's. During qualifying I passed a rider who inturn tried to repass me and hit me from behind. We were locked together until I finally shook him off, after impaling my leathers with his front brake lever. The rider crashed and his bike almost burned to the ground. After I arrived in the pits I was surrounded by a large group of people, all wanting to know what happened! A reporter for Cycle News named Gary Van Vorhees was asking me questions about the incident and this guy that rammed me comes diving through the crowd and takes a swing at me. He just grazed my head and I threw the ice pack I had on my arm at him. My brother got him on the ground and all the while this guy is screaming that I knocked him down! The AMA referee Charlie Watson gets to us and decides to kick us both out. And here it was the other guy who hit me and it was him who threw the punch. All the while I had my best qualifying position ever at an AMA National (6th). In the end there were 2 riders who were directly behind us who backed up my version of the incident. I was allowed to compete and the other rider involved was ejected as I recall. The bottom line here is this: did I ever consider assault charges or filing a suit against him? Hell no I didn't. And if I did I would have been just as big an "asshole" as he was. Racers that care about this sport don't take that kind of action. The ones that do, in my book, care only about themselves and the attorney's they hire to do their dirty work! Now tell me about your vast experience in this sport!
HD
You don't hire attorneys to prosecute assault charges. The local DA prosecutes.
Pardon me, I thought Fania stated he was filing a civil suit? And you can press charges for assault with a DA who also just happens to be an attorney! ::)
HD
QuotePardon me, I thought Fania stated he was filing a civil suit? And you can press charges for assault with a DA who also just happens to be an attorney! ::)
HD
Fania Sr. (not the rider) stated he want to file a civil suit. I am not quite clear the state and police's involvement. From the report that they filed an affidavid, it could be on state's request.
Unlike a regular attorney, the state's attorney/DA would not take a case unless it has merit. So maybe they just needed to have an official statement before deciding what to do. I think we are all jumping to conclusions on both side of the wall. If charges were offically filed in court I am sure we would have heard it by now.
Sorry that it happened to you, Henry. However in your case AMA did take decisive action right there, so you decided nothing else needed to be done. AMA didn't take any actions, even now 3 days after the incident, so what recourse does Fania have? I think they pretty much made a plea for AMA to act down there at the track, but no actions were taken. So if it looks like no actions are going to be taken, I can understand their frustration and wanting something to be done.
I think everyone is "wait and see" stage right now. I don't see anything happening until AMA decides what happens. If Fania file a suit before AMA acts (timely) then I don't agree with it. If AMA does not do anything within the next week, then I support any legal action they take...
I've not seen anything about a civil suit, other than a lot of people assuming that Fania's filing of a affidavit was the start of a civil suit.
Yes the DA is an attorney. OK, now that we've both expanded that particular acronym... ;)
However, the DA is paid the same no matter what case they happen to be trying at the moment. In fact they'd probably rather be involved in a high-profile murder case than trying to get some out of control schmuck put on probation and community service for a couple months.
Look, I'm not a fan of lawyers in general, and I wouldn't be pressing charges over what I saw on the video. However, I recognize that when I do something stupid that's illegal, somebody else might have a different interpretation of things and decide that I should be dealt with by our legal system.
There's a big difference between Yates being charged with assault (if he's been charged - Fania Sr. has indicated only that an affidavit has been filed and I've seen nothing more) and a civil suit for what happened on the track. Being charged with assault and/or battery is just one of the things that might happen when you loose your cool and use force against someone. A civil suit for a racing incident is patently ridiculous because of the assumption of risk in racing.
I'm not a laywer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!
Well the AMA has done their job and I happen to agree with it. Let's see how you feel about it, I'm otta here!
HD
Yup! One race suspension and a fine.
I think a time out is appropriate for a childish act
'nuf said
ok quite good. although would have like to see anger management program be manditory...
how what happens to the crew and pit incident
Well everyone has good points, but I'll tell you how the system works, Since I've been in it. First the whole insident was on national TV. So even if Anthony pressed charges or not, the State of Florida can and most likely would press charges, just to save there ass from being sued by a freakin spectator. As for the crash they happen but you don't try to drop kick someone for it. That's assault, roadrage whatever you want to call it. A friend of mine was driving alittle too slow for someone and he pulled over for the guy to pass, then the guy jumped out of his car hit my friend once in the head and now my friend is dead. As for me I got into a bar fight beat up a few people and the person I only threw into the bar, got me arrested. I did three years for that shit. So no matter how simple you might find it, it still affects some people more. I'm glad that person got me arrested cause I'm a better person today. I took some anger management and someone crashed into me a few years ago and guess what I didn't drop kick him. I wanted too, but I restrained myself. As for Yates I would have beat the hell out of him just to get on TV. No just kidding. I'll find out the scoop from Anthony Fania this week. If he wants to talk about it.
clarification: Yates would not be facing a "Assault" charge , he will be facing a "battery" charge, which is the unlawful touching of another person against his/her will. The "assualt" would be the threat of injury, the ability to carry out such a threat and the victim had a well founded fear that a battery was imminent. If the letter of the law was used, and the battery was commited in the presence of a LEO, or if the LEO determined that the threat of contiuned violence would likely occur, Yates would be headed to the branch jail, there are no exceptions written in Florida Statute which exempts "sporting events".
This occurance is no different then a tyical bar room brawl, the venue at which the battery occurs is irrelevant. Yates should consider himself very fortunate that he did not spend a evening dressed in a orange jumpsuit.
If a SA798 Complaint Affidavit was filed with the originating agency (Daytona Beach PD) and the Officer used their descretion and did not arrest Yates within a reasonable time period, the SA798 will be reviewed by a Misdeamenor Intake Attorney with the State Attorney's Office in Daytona Beach, and after reviewing all evidence , including Witness/Victim's Statements as well as the video footage, a determination of whether to proceed with battery charges and the timely issuance of an arrest warrant .
Blah, blah, blah. Sack tackle Yates. Everyone in the pits gets a free shot at him. Then Yosh forces him to ride a '91 Katana. That'll only be boring until Anthony Gobert does somethin' silly and gets sacked by Erion and forced to team with Yates on a matching Katana.
That'd be perfect. ;D