i searched around but can not find anything ., for an 03 cbr600rr do you need case covers ??! like the gsxr does !!
2nd i am looking for some ride-height numbers for initial setup ., rear right height measurements and or eye to eye for the rear shock ??! and for the front as well., with forks done by GMD if that helps., how much fork tube showing above the triples ., ?? any help would be great .,
thanks alot
dave
Yamaha and Suzuki are the two that side covers are required on.
It's up to the tech inspector. ::)
I was forced to buy a sidecover for my 92' F2 this year at Loudon. But, Tech never said anything about it at VIR. And it's not listed as being required in either rule book. :-/ I was lucky a vendor had one there at the track.
No. You don't need case covers. Honda makes things right.
As for setup, it's really up to your style. We left the front stock height, and raised the rear by 4mm at the shock.
Fork work and overall setup by Suspension-Ed Kwaterski of Trackside Engineering
Rear shock - Penske 8660 - Again built by Ed.
I will be having the chassis optimized by Mr Matt Drucker of MD-Racing on his Kyle Gordis system within the next month...
yes true it is up to each riding style ., but it helps to have a baseline starting point and work from there....
thanks that helps !!!
Did you buy a RR? You should know to just bring it to GMD! ;)
CCS required side covers on ALL bikes this season..pretty sure anyway.. was a new rule for 2003.
I think it might also depend on what brand tires you are running. I am on Michelin's, I have the Ohlins 9mm longer than stock with the front end 4 mm lower than stock. I haven't had any bad mojo with this setup. Be advised that the Ohlins is only good for +5mm "safely" without a longer stem installed on the the shock body. This modification cost about $75. GP
QuoteCCS required side covers on ALL bikes this season..pretty sure anyway.. was a new rule for 2003.
its not in the rule book, although it does say final determination rest with head tech. But I am sure I can make a pretty good case if you carry a rulebook around with you.
Style?
I think style may have something to do with MotoGP, but not here.
A motorcycle is build with specific parameters to fuction as a street bike. So, things like seat height are huge considerations.
Things like anti-squat are not. Anti squat is related to the relationship between the swingarm pivot, the rear axle and the countershaft. A specific angle of the swingarm is not enough as each manufacture has different length swingarms, the pivots are different distances from the countershaft, etc. Throw in the adjustable swingarm pivot on the ZX6RR.
Additionally, if the bike doesn't "create" enough anti squat, you may think that you need a heavier spring. This is a common problem on production based vintage bikes...but then again, in their original state they didn't have as much traction...another reason why production race bike geometry needs to be somewhat different from its street counterpart...we have incredible amounts of traction with race tires that are warmed up...you don't have that on the street.
So, GMD Computrack places like http://4and6.com measure a whole slew of points on the bike. Optimization takes into account many of those things. But additionally, they take into consideration the spring rates, which is extremely important. I won't go into the details of what that is; that's there secret.
Dave, if it was done by GMD before, take it to one of the centers or at least contact one near you. Community ideas on this one may just put you outside of the good point of the handling window.
Just curios, if GMD optimizes the geomitry, Where do they get there number's? Rake and trail can be set at a specific #. but ride height, swingarm angle... Doesn't that need to be set on how the bike turns in(feels)?. I haven't been SOLD on this YET. All I hear about is all the sponsored riders that had it done.
StUmPy
it is a penske shock ....not sure if it goes out to 9mm longer !! but..
and GMD built the forks ., but has not setup/measured the bike., they want $$$ for that ., i am just looking for a starting point ....
and dave., i have done a sem on suspention . that they went through the rear swingarm angles ., etc.. 12.5% etc..
and i am sure the ride hieght will be played with !!! but i need a place to start ., that is not stock !!!
thanks for all the input guys !!
here here Stumpy... ;D
just ride the bich!!!!
until you can't do anything more to make it feel better... then contact the geeks.
it is so much more fun learning the hard way ;)
lil thorny
QuoteCCS required side covers on ALL bikes this season..pretty sure anyway.. was a new rule for 2003.
Not for Great Lakes, Great Plains or Midwest. And it's not in the rulebook either. Only specific bikes (Suzuki/Yamaha) need them.
I've ridden Honda's exclusively for the last 4 years and have only had one request for case covers by Tech, and it was a new guy. When I said that it wasn't a Suzuki/Yamaha, the other guys in tech pointed out that they weren't required.
QuoteCCS required side covers on ALL bikes this season..pretty sure anyway.. was a new rule for 2003.
Am I the only one that got the joke?
Now we're in trouble, because Elaine's TZ dosen't have anything covering the magneto, should we add a cover?
Come to think of it, my CR doesn't NEED the left side cover, as the mag is dry. I wounder if that would pass tech. ;D ;D ;D
-z.
QuoteCCS required side covers on ALL bikes this season..pretty sure anyway.. was a new rule for 2003.
This is not correct all bikes that caused oil leak issues were kept track of. There are no new bikes added to the list, Suzuki and Yamaha are only bikes required to have them as default.
Now if you have a bike that otherwise would not need one (I.E. F2) but the side cover has been ground down and the tech inspector's opinion is that it is in a weakend condition and could then be a problem it would need to be replaced. This is true of any side cover if it is worn it may need to be replaced whether stock or aftermarket built up etc.
FYI a slider is not suitable to comply with rule.
This is driving me up a wall,
I believe the missing keyword is REINFORCED side covers, which would be required only on select bikes (yam, suz). Stock or aftermarket side covers would be required for the rest
-z.
QuoteThis is driving me up a wall,
I believe the missing keyword is REINFORCED
Don't let it drive you up a wall. The conversation started out with a reinforced or aftermarket case cover implied.
How far do you think a 600RR (which is what this topic was written around) would run with no clutch or alternator cover? (a) it wouldn't start as there's nothing to hold the stator. (b) if it did, it would pop after about 90 seconds due to there being NO OIL left in it...
hahah the covers were the least of my worries .,
i was more interested in the ride hieght numbers.,
but this damn off season is driving us all nuts !!!! i can not wait for april .....
and all you guys that have no off season ..."BITE ME "
lol
dave
QuoteAm I the only one that got the joke?
No... Me and the Buell got it! ;D
QuoteNo... Me and the Buell got it! ;D
That's 'cause Buells need a lot more than just a couple side covers to hold the oil in ;D ;) :P
-z.
QuoteThat's 'cause Buells need a lot more than just a couple side covers to hold the oil in ;D ;) :P
-z.
Ohhhh Zak... I thought we were buds! lol! ;)
and dave., i have done a sem on suspention . that they went through the rear swingarm angles ., etc.. 12.5% etc..
and i am sure the ride hieght will be played with !!! but i need a place to start ., that is not stock !!!
thanks for all the input guys !!
________________________________________________
What is a baseline number when you have no idea how close someone elses bike is to yours . You can have bikes set up same fork tube sticking out , same shock length and rear wheel in same position and same tires. They will not handle the same , every frame is different due to manufacturing tolerances. So for all you guys that set your bike up just like your pals , keep wondering why yours doesn't work right.
Oh and as far as the other machines on the market that are supposed to be as accurate as a GMD Computrack , they are not or i would have one.
Amen-FourAndSix.
Dave--suck it up and take it over to Peter or Mike. Its the only real way to get it right.
We were measuring the 600rr's last summer and the numbers were all over the place, no two were alike (unlike the R6 which was smack on each time).
QuoteOh and as far as the other machines on the market that are supposed to be as accurate as a GMD Computrack , they are not or i would have one.
So if you don't mind, share the difference between your GMD machine and the Kyle-Gordis...
Quote________________________________________________
What is a baseline number when you have no idea how close someone elses bike is to yours . You can have bikes set up same fork tube sticking out , same shock length and rear wheel in same position and same tires. They will not handle the same , every frame is different due to manufacturing tolerances. So for all you guys that set your bike up just like your pals , keep wondering why yours doesn't work right.
Oh and as far as the other machines on the market that are supposed to be as accurate as a GMD Computrack , they are not or i would have one.
So are you saying the factory lets out bent bikes? Also nobodys setups are the same because of different riders, not everyone likes the same thing.I went to a GMD seminar and I don't see them doing anything that you can't do with a measuring tape and a tram gauge.
oh geez, you've come on here to bash GMD too?
QuoteAm I the only one that got the joke?
Now we're in trouble, because Elaine's TZ dosen't have anything covering the magneto, should we add a cover?
Come to think of it, my CR doesn't NEED the left side cover, as the mag is dry. I wounder if that would pass tech. ;D ;D ;D
-z.
Only applies to 4 stroke machines.:D:D:D
Quoteoh geez, you've come on here to bash GMD too?
I'm everywhere! ;D I'm not bashing them, It's just my opinion.
QuoteSo are you saying the factory lets out bent bikes? Also nobodys setups are the same because of different riders, not everyone likes the same thing.I went to a GMD seminar and I don't see them doing anything that you can't do with a measuring tape and a tram gauge.
I'd say that they're not 'bent', they're just not measured perfect. Putting a bike together, it'd be easy to have the frame twisted a few thousandths of a degree just by how the motor is torqued down.
I'd believe that a measurement/alignment system would be decent in getting a baseline and setting things up and correcting twists after an accident.
As for measuring? I don't believe you can come anywhere near as accurate with a tape/tram gauge as you will with a theodolite.
I'm just still waiting to hear what makes GMD so much better...
Actually we see new bikes out the the crate with mis-alignments and offsets. It's mass produced what did you expect. The average street rider might never feel it but some do. Go on the zrx12 site and look around , very common with those bikes. Just had to jig 2 new o4 r6's.As far as the difference between the different measuring machines , yes there is a difference.It would take far too long to explain it on here and why should i help them sort out whats wrong? GMD has a proven track record with bike set up. Why re invent the wheel ?Ask some of the local guys around here , Denning , Shallcross,Roeser,Janisch,Rosno,and on and on
I'm sold on Jim using his GMD on my bike.
I've heard the numbers, but having delt with vintage bikes quite a bit in chassis set up, where would you like to start.
Let's say that every bike has their swingarm set at a 12 degree swingarm angle. Big problems right off the bat...
My early model H1's have 17" swingarms, later set ups were 19", and now I have an aluminum one for it that is a little over 20.5". The location of the swingarm pivot is at completely different heights.
If the countershaft were at the exact same location in each chassis, the resulting anti-squat that is produced would be dramatically different.
Jim will have to elaborate here... But I'll try to embellish a bit...
Certainly the GMD system has a window of opportunity for a chassis. But given the varying locations of certain important pieces, certain "angles" and such are not universal.
Back to Jim and http://4and6.com ...
Jim has done this for like...forever...probably twice forever....
So, Jim justs wants to be competitive; he's producing stuff to win against Miguel...right? Really, who else do you know who has put a private bike on the top of the Box at an AMA National Championship Road Race? Let alone the 600 race...potentially the hardest class.
So, when Jim had the opportunity to get into the GMD program...he was there, and he can apply his knowledge within that parameter. Tools are only as good as the person using it...and as good at the person that can use it to their advantage.
Jim's decision to use the GMD system over everything else is just like making a decision between a straight rate spring and a rising rate spring...what's gonna make you're stuff faster on the track?
Oh, and my bike was bent too stock. I fixed that with a few crashes...
;D
damn i did not mean to start all this ...............
i know every bike is different ., but you have to start some place then tweek it to how you ride ... geeezzzzz i did not think getting a simple answer would be so hard ., and fun at the same time......
jackasses the hole lot of you .....LOL ;)
LOL, the same to you.... :-*
Here's the trick...You've got a Honda. I think after the F3, Honda really started to separate itself from racing reality. The bikes are designed to be sporty and all, but the racing reality is quite a bit off.
You could start somewhere on the RR, or an F4, F4i, but because Honda made them to follow a particular sihluette, they don't bear any resemblance to the race bikes.
You'd do fine on a reasonably prepared RR, etc...but it won't work anything like a reasonable production race bike.
So, what does that mean? The bike won't have the ground clearance, traction, braking weight transfer, and turning that you'll need to chase some other bikes out there. That means that when you're riding at 95% of your ability, you might be using 98% of the traction available. Mean while, someone else on an RR with it in the proper ball park, geometrically, will be riding doing the same lap times as you while not using up so much traction. Or if you ride the bike, you can ride at 95%, go faster while still only using 98% of the traction that is now available.
Sure, there are styles, but there is a reasonable window that is availble to build upon...the RR is quite a bit different.
Coming from an owner of an RR I love it..Totally different bike than the f4,f4i,f3... Handles great! It feels like it weighs nothing because of the lower center of gravity, Need to get it dialed in though still to really see what it does, I've only raced it 2 weekends and it got me in the top 5 in every race I entered. Thumbs Up from this end.. ;)
StUmPy
Right but remember how different it was when you first got it? Then some changes, more changes...still needs to be dialed in.
And with the proper information on geometry for shock lengths, fork heights with modified internals... it would be that much easier to ride at the same pace, and a faster pace would be possible.
But you can't have one without the other. Lenthing the shock without the proper information on how that will affect trail...It's all just a compromise.
Just saying that the swingarm needs to be 13 degrees and the trail at 90...that won't cut it. Too dynamic. That's why it's still easier for me, and I've ridden a few bikes, to start with a good GMD set up at 4&6.
That make sense? It's a sales pitch, yeah, but if it sucked...I wouldn't be so enthused. And you know I'm pretty straight forward. I'll tell you one way or another. But I can't make you do what I understand is right.
The option is to race as many races, go to as many tracks, spend as much money as I have, race as many DIFFERENT bikes as I have...and hope that you get it all. But I still go to 4&6. And it ain't cause I have money...I just know I have to have it to keep my old butt up front. Makes my life easier.
Just as a point of note:
4&6 is a GMD based shop, but there are many more. I would suggest finding the closest one to your area before deciding to drive to Michigan (or where-ever those guys are) :D
Also--I don't think Dan Kyle has his machine anymore. It was a cheap knockoff of the GMD setup, almost to the 'T' but due to its cheap parts, the level of accuracy was far from where it needed to be.
QuoteAlso--I don't think Dan Kyle has his machine anymore. It was a cheap knockoff of the GMD setup, almost to the 'T' but due to its cheap parts, the level of accuracy was far from where it needed to be.
Find me
any piece of data which will support this...
Well, yeah, Jim you want to pipe in here...
GMD places have their parameters. But 4&6 has more actual experience in setting up bikes. So, although some GMD places might do it one way, Jim might do it a bit differently based on all of his knowledge. Back to the AMA Supersport win. Who's got 'em?
Jef4y, I've heard that too, but I don't have info on it. Similar to GMD, Dan Kyle sold his set up. It has paramters for use. So, I would assume that others are either using it as per the instructions, which to the best of my knowledge bases the geometry for all bikes on some specific final parameters.
But regardless, I'm back to that experience thing. How many lap records has Larry Denning posted in the past few years? Larry goes to 4&6 because he knows that he can get what he needs for set up. You can have all the tools, but if you don't have the big picture knowledge base and the experiences that you used them in...
What type of data do you require? Kyle basically attempted to reverse engineer the GMD machine during his stay at Erion, but got come core pieces essentially 'wrong'. I'm not at liberty to discuss what they are, as Jim said, that would just be giving away the Colonel's secret recipe.
Point is moot though as the ability to find Kyle's machine have dried up including any links on his website even mentioning it. (aside from the one MDracing already purchased)
Lets put it another way--if the machine was just as accurate as GMD, provided the same functionality, and was a cheaper alternative--we'd still see it being sold and a lot of racers would be thanking KyleUSA rather than GMD.
Fact is (could this be construed as data)--we don't see this.
The complete lack of any mention of the unit on his site tells me that either he realized it was a flawed and hopeless unit--or the patent holder for the GMD system (Greg McDonald) legally forced him to stop.
The experience piece I wouldn't even begin to argue. However, that wasn't ever my point.
And for reference, all I'm looking for is data. I'm not saying the KG system is any better or worse than the GMD system. All I'm trying to do is find out if ANYONE can prove this to me. To date, no one has provided any facts to support their claims.
And please, don't go into the winning records of Denning/Rosno/Janish/etc... This is not what I'm looking for.
Yes, it is fact that the machine isn't listed on Dan's website. However, why it's gone is 100% speculation. Perhaps it didn't sell because the margins were too low and GMD dominated the industry. Perhaps it's down because they are making website changes. It could be any one of a million reasons.
Take the human side out (for now), and show me measurement for measurement the differences between GMD and Kyle-Gordis.
There are 3 basic pieces to a measurement system. The theodolite, a slide rack, and the calculation software. Out of these, the only one which could be patented would be the software, so I don't think there would be any legal basis for GMD to make KG stop selling. However, this is again, MY speculation and I'd like to just stick to facts here.
Dave, your point is very well registered that Jim and 4&6 have provided setup for many winning riders. I'm not asking for reputation or anyone as a person. I'm talking equipment to equipment...
Of which, I'll ask again... Can anyone share facts with me that the GMD system is more accurate than the KG system?
I can't give you an answer.
I do know a guy in Australia that sets his H2 road racer with a H1 frame very similar to the geometry of my R6. He measures by hand. I think Jim Raashid could come up with the correct numbers he wanted as long as he had a measuring tool. That's what the GMD set up gave him...probably easier and more consistent vs measuring by hand.
Jim will have to imply the rest.
if you can patent the process of online 'one click purchases', i can't imagine why you couldn't patent a system for the use of measuring motorcycles by incorporating three distinct units (theodolite, rack, and software).
In order to provide side by side data to compare, what would require both a GMD machine and a Kyle machine. So, unless someone has both, or some plans to take their bike to both places AND both places are willing to hand over the data coming from the systems--you'll never have the info you are looking for.
I spoke in length to Peter Kates, the Boston GMD shop and he explained to me the problems with the Kyle machine, which unfortunately, I can't go into here, but they sounded very very valid.
And again, you can't debunk what doesn't exist. :D
Okay. I'll let it go at my knowledge that there is no proof to the statement of "GMD is more accurate".
Thanks guys. I'm really not trying to be a jerk (believe it or not) :-* :-*
I'm with you Jeff.
You're not being a jerk. But there isn't anyone that can really answer the question.
So.... :P
I'm sick I tell you...
Posts: 3000
very sick indeed ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Webcrush,
Please give me a call and I will be happy to tell you why my machine is surperior to the GMD. 831 394-1330
There is no patent on the GMD as it uses technology that has been used for the last 80 years. Greg Mcdonald does have a patent on another form of measurement machine, it describes the one traxxion sell to a T. It was done before the current machine, it did not work then, and it does not work now. Check it out the patent number is 5148377.
The three main advantages my machine has are:
A straight flat truer platform to start with, the GMD is not.
Easier to learn and use software, that you can also go back and remeasure any single measurement, the GMD is based on DOS, and if a error is made you start over.
Accurate and repeatable targets, that anyone can use and get the same measurement, try using a GMD with two different people measureing and you will get two different measurements, let alone ever getting the targets exactly the same twice.
Hope to hear from you. Dan Kyle 831 394-1330
DIng DIng DINg..And in this corner ;) Its good to see straight from the horses you know what that the Dan Kyle is legit, I'm glad HE said so himself otherwise people would be misled with incorrect info.
I got alot of it when I was getting into racing and had to sift threw to the truth. Hard to trust "Hear Say"
I myself am weighting the options between the two. Haven't talked to anyone yet that had the DK done yet. Called GMD and all I got was trust me Janish, Rapp, Rosno, ect. had it done. Mladin wears AGV leathers but I wouldn't wear them rollerskating, why? I crash tested them on the street and they disinigrated.
StUmPy
rather than call you, go ahead and explain it to everyone else. I don't need convincing, I'm already using GMD,thats not going to change.
for the record this is daves girlfriends bike, and not his.
lol..
just fucking with ya bro.
Quotefor the record this is daves girlfriends bike, and not his.
lol..
just fucking with ya bro.
you promissed you would not tell anyone about the too of us ., you little bitch !!! just for that no dicky for you tonight !!! :-[
im sorry sweetie. :P
Quoterather than call you, go ahead and explain it to everyone else. I don't need convincing, I'm already using GMD,thats not going to change.
It is a little time consuming for me to type it all out, at least I am willing to explain, I have not seen anything from you showing what is wrong with my system other than you would love to say but it is a secret.
I already knew you where not going to change, as your mind is made up well before you have the facts.
Anuyone who wants to know is welcome to call. Dan
Welcome to the board Dan and thanks for all the help with my suspension.
Jack @ SliderPhoto
Dan, I do not work for GMD, nor am I a representative of them aside from endorsing their services.
It would not be proper for me to speak about insider details of another's business for which I might have overheard information on.
I can only hope 4&6 or another franchised GMD owner might respond to the questions posed in this thread.
Quote...and all I got was trust me Janish, Rapp, Rosno, ect. had it done. Mladin wears AGV leathers but I wouldn't wear them rollerskating, why? I crash tested them on the street and they disinigrated.
StUmPy
Well, that is different. What we get is the same thing you can get. But Mladin's AGV leathers...they are probably like Nicky Hayden's former leather company Joe Rocket...not what they said...only had the name stitched on.
I'll agree there is a lot of hype on motorcycle stuff. Too much. Probably a good reason why guys usually only last about two to three years and then they are gone. The hype people take the money, and may not deliver. It's happened with some of the tire vendors in seasons in the Midwest racently, and long ago.
Dan Kyle...Dan's been around for one of those eternities.
also depends on what model of AGV leather you wore.
Mladin didn't wear the AGV produced but the suits manufactured by Corner. I had a set of those AGV branded Corner leathers and they held up very well to many many many crashes. Still have em, just don't wear em anymore, but kept in the trailer rack for those really rainy weekends when the my older Joe Rockets are already saturated
QuoteDan, I do not work for GMD, nor am I a representative of them aside from endorsing their services.
It would not be proper for me to speak about insider details of another's business for which I might have overheard information on.
I can only hope 4&6 or another franchised GMD owner might respond to the questions posed in this thread.
I think you should tell us what the details are, because you seem to know. ::)
If you weren't ready to back up your statments then you shouldn't have said anything from the start.
Ever consider that I might not be legally permitted to?
Jef i don't think your being a jerk , just can't answer your question as it is propriatery info (i'm not the best speller) . I purchased the GMD machine because at the time American Honda had one and our goal was to beat the winning factory bikes. Yes we had several good finishes up to that point but we wanted to win. We tried to have the best equipment in our shop and i think we do. I have had several factory team employees tell me that we have everything they have plus some as far as equipment.Well we bought the GMD machine and it moved us light years ahead in set up time and info. Then yes we did win a race.I beleive Dan Kyle is no longer associated with the machine anymore. You would have to check with him.
Thanks for the reply Jim. Actually I talked to Dan yesterday and he said exactly what you say here about being associated w/American honda.
I also appreciate your reply that the info is proprietary. It beats no reply at all.
Take care.
-Jeff
QuoteEver consider that I might not be legally permitted to?
Then as I said you shouldn't have said anything. Your only going by what Peter told you anyway.
QuoteThen as I said you shouldn't have said anything. Your only going by what Peter told you anyway.
Why shouldnn't I have? And yer right, why should I listen to what a major participant in a company has to say about its product--i mean he only the oldest GMD shop here, 2nd to Kent in Atlanta.
Mike, I really think you need to rethink your odd passion for making sure GMD is debunked. Its not getting you anywhere, sure as hell isn't making you any faster, and definitely wasting a lot of bandwidth.
QuoteWhy shouldnn't I have? And yer right, why should I listen to what a major participant in a company has to say about its product--i mean he only the oldest GMD shop here, 2nd to Kent in Atlanta.
Mike, I really think you need to rethink your odd passion for making sure GMD is debunked. Its not getting you anywhere, sure as hell isn't making you any faster, and definitely wasting a lot of bandwidth.
If you were going to say what you knew then you should have said it. That's what I mean. I am not saying anything about Gmd, I am just interested in what makes one machine better then the other.
As for not making me fast, I think I went just as fast as you in one year racing then you did in five years! Lets not start this again. If you have anything more you want to say email me. ;)
You guys are should all know better. There's only 2 reasons why I would bring my bike to a professional shop for suspension setup. The first reason is if I wadded the bike up and I was curious if the bike is 6 inches twisted up. The second reason is if I wanted to go faster than 14's at my home track, Loudon. Any newer gen bike will go 14's all day long, even all twisted up. It's all about the rider. If I'm going 17's, I have no right to get the bike measured because that means I'm just riding like a xussy.....and that may be the case until I get to know the bike ;)
I just wanted some kind of numbers besides stock. Thanks for all the feedback.
It's all about the rider, yes. But we have the gifted and talented riders, then the rest of us mortal ones. I fall in under the mortal one's. I don't have any special quick reaction times, I have no depth perception, and I didn't grow up racing motorcycles.
Some blazingly fast riders have quick reactions that allow them to "ride any motorcycle" quickly. The bike may not be right, but riders like that are able to react quicker to the things that happen to the bike. So, where for me, with slower reactions, I feel something, then I'm on the ground. Or I ride to a certain speed then find that to be comfortable.
For me, the only way I learned how to be fast was to learn more about how a bike should be. Racing vintage bikes that were certainly more "not right" in the geometry department, in addition to the fact that they were not wearing rubber that completely distorts the suspension under the load of cornering...they just weren't meant to have that kind of traction when they were designed thirty to forty years ago...taught me a lot of patterns about spring rates and geometry.
The GMD system helps put those geometry and spring issues into a form that is readable and replicatable. Rather than experiementing with shock length all day and not being happy, probably because the trail is all messe up anyway, you can arrive at the race track with something that is refined and good.
Back to fast riders. The GMD system isn't just for me, a normal person. It's been used by the "fast" guys with exceptional reactions too. Eric Wood? Todd Harrington? Denning? Janisch? I've seen those guys race, I've race against those guys. Regardless, the GMD system IS part of their recipe for success...and they would be fast on a stock bike too. If it wasn't worth the time and money, they'd be spending the money on something else that was important.
QuoteYou guys are should all know better. There's only 2 reasons why I would bring my bike to a professional shop for suspension setup. The first reason is if I wadded the bike up and I was curious if the bike is 6 inches twisted up. The second reason is if I wanted to go faster than 14's at my home track, Loudon. Any newer gen bike will go 14's all day long, even all twisted up. It's all about the rider. If I'm going 17's, I have no right to get the bike measured because that means I'm just riding like a xussy.....and that may be the case until I get to know the bike ;)
I just wanted some kind of numbers besides stock. Thanks for all the feedback.
any new gen bike can run 14's if it is set up properly. twisted... well i guess it would depend if on how it was twisted. i believe it was mike martire who road fevers bike and he said it scared him... i dont think he ran faster than 17 on it, and mike can run 14's... ;)