What gives?
The dates are seemingly screwey, having many single day events, and a Sunday/Monday May 30-31 date at Blackhawk.
I'm assuming the dates are wrong, but the incredible complete lack of attention it would take to have this many mistakes makes me think that we might actually have "single day" events.
My apologies if this has been addressed.
I think there may have been a couple of typos on the schedule? the FUSA dates dont match the ones on the 3rd page.
As for may 30-31. thats memorial day weekend, they did summit FUSA races on sunday, actually it helps me, so I can go somewhere on that sat and come race on sun/mon
In the Southwest/Pacific region all of our events (except twin sprints) are on Sunday only for 2004. Saturday will be a full day practice/trackday. I don't know how the schedule will work out for Sunday, last year we were running the GT races on Saturday and the rest on Sunday. Next year we will lose the Sportbike class, and the sportsman and supersingles classes will be combined into ultra-lightweight superbike. Because these classes were already combined with thunderbike and GP singles, we won't gain much. Assuming ultra-lightweight superbike is run combined with GP singles, we will have 2 fewer sprint races than last year. Now add in 3 GT races into the Sunday schedule, and the only thing I can figure is we'll get no practice. Then add sidecars or USGPRU...
-z.
I see, so they presume you practice a lot on sat. and race for all the classes on sun. I don't really like it. I like spreading out my classes, and have a chance to regroup on sat night. Like if you are chasing the points and you need to do 7-8 classes on sunday is just too much, especially if there are GT's involved. Besides, racing for 2 days is fun, racing on a single day is too business like.
If this is the case, wow! That would be really nice for those who can't make it to Friday Practice.
but would be an overall bad move for the organization IMHO...
Quotebut would be an overall bad move for the organization IMHO...
its a hard one to predict, but that would be my guess. Instead of doing 7-8 classes, if my races are all on sun I am doing 4 total. they loose entry fees on the guys that are coming either way.
They may get a few more people to come where they wouldn't because they dont have that much time. but does that really compensate for the loss of entries by regulars?
Maybe they run only GT's on Sat and all the sprints on Sun. But it is still very taxing on most regulars. And now if you crash earlier on sun, you would miss more races than a 2-day weekend because you have less time/chance to fix your bike.I don't like it.
I don't think its going to make more money for them, but thats just me talking
Dunno, that's what they do in FL, and have been doing.
Checking the Roebling website shows that the CCS races are again scheduled the weekend following the WERA races.
This affected the attendance at CCS races last year and will probably do so again in 04.
Hopefully we will reinstate the sat 50 miler races instead of the duplicate sprint days we had in 03.
I tell you why there is going to be low SE region turnout!! Did you see the schedule??? A 10 race weekend schedule and 4 of the weekends are in Florida. One is in Alabama.
So almost half the races on the schedule are in FL. What kind of crap is that.
It looks like I will have to get a license for every group CCS/FUSA,WERA,AHRMA just so I can race in my area. Not to mention I will be able to pick and choose certain events. Like this year my plan is to do:
Daytona Speedway
Roebling Road Raceway
VIR
Carolina Motorsports Park
Road Atlanta
Mid Ohio
Summit Point
See yall girls next year ;D
Quotebut would be an overall bad move for the organization IMHO...
My take has long been...
Clear Channel Entertainment/Championship Cup Series....has never been about the riders or the sport.
QuoteMy take has long been...
Clear Channel Entertainment/Championship Cup Series....has never been about the riders or the sport.
Agree, but being about the money, I'd think they would realize what a mistake this is...
Maybe I could move to a place that I could ice race all year round...
QuoteAgree, but being about the money, I'd think they would realize what a mistake this is...
Maybe I could move to a place that I could ice race all year round...
Think about it this way, in the SW region GT entries are down- not to mention boring. Half an hour isnt long enough to put real strategy in and just long enough to string out the racers into a boring ridealong. If all races are on Sunday, CCS can have less crew on Saturday- hence less money to pay out- hence no rise in gate fees or rider race entries- you can't have it both ways. Now my vote is to get rid of GT races period, extend the Unlimited GP to twice its current length and maybe up the purse a little too. Saturday practice is good for all those that can't get Fridays off and, good for CCS (no staff required for friday and no extra track rental. And I am wondering since there is no 'competetion' on Saturday if the insurance for that day is less at some tracks. Kevin and his crew are really busting their asses to keep roadracing alive and well in the best package available in the U.S. at an amatuer level. I have seen many 'clubs around the U.S. over the last 20 years and still think CCS does it right- not right allthe time but when you have so many to please you will not please them all. So be happy with what we have and rest assured that Kevin is trying to make do the very best that he can with what he is given. So until you have the money to buy CCS from Clear Channel- quit carpin' and keep on racin'! See you at the races! and Happy Holidays!
QuoteThink about it this way, in the SW region GT entries are down- not to mention boring. Half an hour isnt long enough to put real strategy in and just long enough to string out the racers into a boring ridealong. If all races are on Sunday, CCS can have less crew on Saturday- hence less money to pay out- hence no rise in gate fees or rider race entries- you can't have it both ways. Now my vote is to get rid of GT races period, extend the Unlimited GP to twice its current length and maybe up the purse a little too. Saturday practice is good for all those that can't get Fridays off and, good for CCS (no staff required for friday and no extra track rental. And I am wondering since there is no 'competetion' on Saturday if the insurance for that day is less at some tracks. Kevin and his crew are really busting their asses to keep roadracing alive and well in the best package available in the U.S. at an amatuer level. I have seen many 'clubs around the U.S. over the last 20 years and still think CCS does it right- not right allthe time but when you have so many to please you will not please them all. So be happy with what we have and rest assured that Kevin is trying to make do the very best that he can with what he is given. So until you have the money to buy CCS from Clear Channel- quit carpin' and keep on racin'! See you at the races! and Happy Holidays!
opinions, everyone has one. yours noted.
and just so you know, it happen to be a minority one, to most of the points you were trying to make.
he is paying his money, and he is going to say what he feels.
"be happy with what you got" is a load of CRAP. if that was the right way to think we would still be a colony
I am just saying that all I hear is bitching and moaning and no real ideas on a good fix. Yes you are paying money and that means you should have a vested interest in what is going on. Yet, this is reality and no one can please all the people all the time. As far as I am concerned CCS is the best organization available for amatuer racers in the country, and they are trying to improve what they provide to you. However this takes money, money comes from racer entries, gate fees and licsensing fees, which are right in check with any other club or organization in the country that provides roadracing.
Ask anyone who has or is holding racing right now, it is tough business and they are providing for only 500 raceers at the most. CCS has thousands, from all reaches of North America and at the same time has a skeleton crew to take care of the details. Is the answer hire more people? Sure. But those people have to be paid, travel has to be paid etc. CCS is trying to to the best they can do to survive and bring a safe program to you, all the while fighting a poor (but slowly improving) economy, rising track rents/insurance/emt costs etc.. It is all opinion Philly- but like I said, offer some cheese with the whine- or buy CCS and "fix" it. (BTW- cheese is something constructive in this case).
I suggest you go read the "Florida Total Points still wrong" thread.
Obviously some people have been having problems with the org or some business have not been done wonderfully. So let those people voice their complaints. If you don't have any, don't say nothing. Singing glorious songs of CCS is not going to solve anyone's problems. mmmmmk?
Its great CCS has loyal customers as yourself. Be happy in your little shell, don't read anyone's complain if you don't agree.
You are obviously not coming up with any solutions either. So until you can buy CCS and solve everyone's problems and complains, I suggest you stop whining about the whiners... that is your own suggestion isn't it?
grab some cheese and enjoy your holidays mmmmk?
I'll agree also that there is a lot of complaining.
Doing something for a lot longer than most of you would give you a more tempered perspective on the whole thing.
One day races? Won't know how they will work until we do it. But, Nate, did you say that they are doing it in the FL region?
Seven races in one day? Well, you get what you pay for. Most people DON'T enter seven races, so I don't think it will dramatically change the average. Didn't we go from how money grubbing CCE is and now we're telling CCE that they are going to loose so much revenue? Can't eat cheese on both sides? LOL!
I have yet to see a perfect organization. Certainly, they each, even regionally, have strengths and weeknesses.
As for solutions, even though I have seen things quite a bit differently with Kevin Elliott on some CCE issues and my school, he and I do discuss matters with an amount of regularity. I got the fuel rules changed from 1999 to 2000, again from 2003 to 2004, I got some rules changed in Lightweight Sportsman several years ago. I proposed "Sportbike" type rules in the 90's with the format that I wanted at the regional level being adopted for ULGP at the regional level this year.
As for the colony analogy...
What would be our format on that...no racing fees without racing...
Heck, I just wanted to know if the schedule was RIGHT :)
Looking at the midwest region, 3 weekends are single day events (Heartland Park & Gingerman). This may keep me from going down to KS, but I might give it a whirl. I love Gingerman, so I'll definitely go there.
Now, looking at the LP Sport-Rider days, I see that Sat will be practice days integrated with LP Sportrider days. IMHO, that worked out okay for the 1 weekend I did this on in 03. Other people complained, but it personally wasn't too bad.
The one thing that did suck though is that the races were shortened down to 5 laps during the 1 day events. This is a huge b1tching point for people...
On the good side, it was awesome to see open practice at Gateway on the conclusion of racing on Saturday. This was a big "we care about you" gesture that I don't think many people mentioned or acknowledged. Me? I didn't get to take advantage of it, I was trying to JB weld my rear brakes back together from a crash earlier in the day...
QuoteOn the good side, it was awesome to see open practice at Gateway on the conclusion of racing on Saturday. This was a big "we care about you" gesture that I don't think many people mentioned or acknowledged. Me? I didn't get to take advantage of it, I was trying to JB weld my rear brakes back together from a crash earlier in the day...
This was ALWAYS the custom years ago at Blackhawk. Admittedly, it seems hard for us to get AM/EX GTU uncombined because some seem to feel that we need to be done way before 6PM.
So, does anyone know for sure that these are going to be 1 day events or not?
The SW region is going to be like this; Practice for racers and trackday for streeters on Saturday- no racing on Saturday. Sunday is racing with ( not sure about this yet) a possible one practice session per group. Twin sprint weekends will be practice/track day on Friday and racinig Sat/Sun. I think one benefit of this is for those racers who have friends or crew come out and help, they will only have to pay gate for one day if they want to watch all your races (instead of watching your GT race then something on SUnday). It may also help bring in spectators who get bored real quick waiting through practice for the racing action to start. For those that run several races a weekend, yes it will be tough on you (and your tire guys) but just think, at least on Saturday you should have time to sort out your machine(s) fully.And out here we can run less corner workers/crew into the ground duuring our 105 degree days. I like this on paper but as with anything we will have to see when it happens.
QuoteSo, does anyone know for sure that these are going to be 1 day events or not?
In the midwest, yes I'd say they are correct since they coincide with LP sport rider days...
QuoteThe SW region is going to be like this; Practice for racers and trackday for streeters on Saturday- no racing on Saturday. Sunday is racing with ( not sure about this yet) a possible one practice session per group. Twin sprint weekends will be practice/track day on Friday and racinig Sat/Sun. I think one benefit of this is for those racers who have friends or crew come out and help, they will only have to pay gate for one day if they want to watch all your races (instead of watching your GT race then something on SUnday). It may also help bring in spectators who get bored real quick waiting through practice for the racing action to start. For those that run several races a weekend, yes it will be tough on you (and your tire guys) but just think, at least on Saturday you should have time to sort out your machine(s) fully.And out here we can run less corner workers/crew into the ground duuring our 105 degree days. I like this on paper but as with anything we will have to see when it happens.
This is the same way we run it in Florida. Practice all day saturday and 1 practice session Sunday morning followed by racing all day. I like it because its hard for me to get off of work on a friday.
Yeah, with places like Topeka, all day practice on Sat, races on Sunday. Helps at least try to pay for the event. Might be less than ideal when comparing to some events, but the event has to survive.
Man, talk about dedication and trying to make CCS work better, cstem is the guy standing on top of the registration building announcing races all day or running through the pits making sure everyone hears the calls when the PA is down. Now the PA SHOULDN'T be down, but these guys (the regional CCS officials) are doing everything within their power to make the races go as well as possible. When HE has to deal with all these problems and can STILL praise CCS, that shows how much worse it can be.
OK, I said my one nice comment about CCS for the year :P
In any case, how do I feel about Sunday only race? Last seasion I didn't race in the GTs, so all my races were on Sunday anyway. The way I see it, I'll now get a few more practice sessions on Saturday and lose one on Sunday. My only fear is that if we start having a crash fest and get a few red flags and track cleanups, we won't be able to get through the schedule before sundown.
-z.
The CCS mailer has a tentative schedule, there is a mistake in the Florida Region. It shows March 14-15 at Moroso, it should be March 20-21. These are 2 day events. If you choose not to do the practice day and only do race day, then it's a 1 day event for you! Deal with it, it works! We've been doing it for years :o.
HD
I think this really bites. Remember all the anger when they did exactly this to us with the LP track days at Gingerman in 03? Now it looks like MOST of our weekends will be this way. Aside from having to share track time with STREET PEPOLE, we'll all be dealing with the "there is no tomorrow" thing. Tear up your bike and you'll miss a whole weekend's worth of races, with no Saturday night to try and fix it. Are there still going to be GT races?
Track days keep looking better...
In Florida we don't share track time with "street people"!
HD
CHris, I think that only applies to the SE and SW guys. Other than the usual f-up at Gingerman for us. But if they are gonna do that to us here also, I'll just go back to racing cars. >:(
Looks like all Blackhawk dates are 2 day events. Playing favorites? That track isn't close to everybody. :P
QuoteIn Florida we don't share track time with "street people"!
HD
and one time in band camp...
KC: I think it's a matter of trying to get more $$ at the farther events. I don't think most people who would travel far to topeka would not go now, so if they can get about the same entries, plus some street riders, it might come out a bit higher in revenue.
Farther events for whom? ;)
ok I am more confused now.
on the schedule, they have The FUSA summit point at May 30-31. And the LP day on May 29.
That make sense execept that the Team Challenge is on May 29 too, so how could the TC be run on a LP day? Maybe they meant to say May 28 for LP day.
So I think there are a lot of little mistakes on the schedule, and I am not sure they really meant to do one day events, or it would be announced clearly in the mailer?
No, it's likely correct. They'll cut the LP day off at around 2:00 and run the TC...
Dafan, don't forget that a couple LP days were run on the Jefferson circuit last year so they could run the TC and LP day at the same time.
QuoteLooks like all Blackhawk dates are 2 day events. Playing favorites? That track isn't close to everybody. :P
True, but BFR gets people to come. It pays the rent for many of the other tracks that don't in the MW/GP/GL. The events there are one of the better attended tracks around the country. Entries at Gateway is 1/3 to 1/4 of the entries at Blackhawk, for a somewhat similar cost in rental, if I'm not correct.
QuoteTrue, but BFR gets people to come. It pays the rent for many of the other tracks that don't in the MW/GP/GL. The events there are one of the better attended tracks around the country. Entries at Gateway is 1/3 to 1/4 of the entries at Blackhawk, for a somewhat similar cost in rental, if I'm not correct.
Most likey you are correct Dave. Generally you are.:D:D
But if thats the case, why did we lose a BHF date? Wouldnt 6 dates make more sense than 5?
I think it has been the snow in 2000 and the 35 and rain and flurries in 2002, the 40 degree weather in 2003. Just too many reasons for riders not to show up. I'm sure CCS lost pretty big in that April date in 2003.
A sixth date somewhere would have just made the schedule that much more complex and compressed. Too much money for most of us. So, five BFR dates seems reasonable, right?
Well drop one the gingerman or Topeka events in the summer/fall and put BHF in its place.:D:D
QuoteWell drop one the gingerman or Topeka events in the summer/fall and put BHF in its place.:D:D
Drop a Gingerman??? Are you Mad?
Topeka... yeah lets drop the Nov One ;D
So is Saturday practice included in your entry fees (for Sunday only races), or do we have to pay the extra dollars to do a trackday?
There is a morning practice that's included, and it's like an additional $20 for the rest of the day...
QuoteThe SW region is going to be like this; Practice for racers and trackday for streeters on Saturday- no racing on Saturday. Sunday is racing with ( not sure about this yet) a possible one practice session per group. Twin sprint weekends will be practice/track day on Friday and racinig Sat/Sun.
So how about the following event?
Pacific Roadracing ChampionshipJune 5 Streets of Willow
LP USA Team Privateer Sport Rider DayJune 5 Streets of Willow
This is a Saturday. Are we doing both on Saturday, or is this a typo? Thanks in advance!!!
QuoteSo is Saturday practice included in your entry fees (for Sunday only races), or do we have to pay the extra dollars to do a trackday?
Ok, I've got the word.
On these one day events, all racing will be on Sunday.
Saturday will be extra, but it will be a full day of practice, kind of like the Sport Rider Days (SRD's) at Blackhawk. Groups will be divided up by skill, etc. Yes there can be street riders in the street group. Yes, there might be faster street riders in the sport group. Yes, the advanced group will be for racers. And, yes, the race director might even divide up those groups further.
I think the cost for full SRD's were about $75 or so for licensed racers that were entered for the weekend's races.
Blackhawk in May...Racing on 29-30...SRD on the 31st.
That's pretty lame if they make us pay for Saturday practice, unless it's really cheap. Last year with my race entry, I would get 3 practice sessions or so on Saturday morning, and 2 practice sessions on Sunday morning. I could also pay a small amount for a couple of Saturday afternoon "sport rider" sessions before the GT races. So with my race entry, I would get 5 practice sessions. With the new one day schedule, we'll probably only get 1 practice session. If Saturday practice is not included with my entry fee, I've just lost 3-4 practice sessions.
Yes I know CCS needs to make ends meet and show their profit, but giving racers less each season is not a way to encourage people to come out and race. I don't see this as a good move, and at least in the Southwest there will be a lot of competition for these riders by other orgs. For 2004 in the southwest (CA, AZ, NM, NV) we can race with: CCS, ASMA, AFM, SMRI, WSMC, TARRC, AHRMA, and now WERA. IMHO there aren't enough riders to support this many orgs, so they should be fighting for our business, not cutting our track time.
-z.