Samuel Thompson wrote:
I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December.
I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his theory of evolution.
Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game. "But it's a Christian prayer," some will argue. Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles. And we are in the Bible Belt. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you exp ect-somebody chanting Hare Krishna?
If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.
If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.
If I went to a ping pong match in China, I woul d expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.
And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit. When in Rome...
"But what about the atheists?" is another argument. What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer. Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.
Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us just to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying. God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well..........just sue me..
Alright Dawn! Words of wisdom. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
GOD bless us all.................
;D
Believe it or not........ I couldn't have said it better myself ;D
I am an atheist and I believe that an atheist should not care about any praying that others do. That would be pointless. If they want to pray then let them. How can it hurt anything? If I were religious though, I would care more about that. Escpecially as far as my kids go. How would you like to go to Bagdad and have your kid in an enviroment like the ones you see on TV. You aren't there, but they are and peer pressure is a powerful thing. Your son comes home one day at 10 or 12 years old and tells you Jesus sucks and... you get the point. That would be tough. Atheists shouldn't care though, at least not from a religious point of view. The ones that are complaining would probably complain about most anything. They are those kinds of people.
Well said Dawn.
It's sad that in this day and age that the majority is being screwed by an insignificant few that ruin it for everyone else. Prayer, the Pledge of Allegiance, kids going to their neighborhood school, I can't help but see those things as positive community/relationship builders. Yet in my town kids can't go to their neighborhood school because of a desegregation lawsuit that has raised our taxes so high that not that long ago we had the highest tax rate in the country! Now the kids are on buses for at least 2 hours a day going across town to random schools where they can't even go to school with their own neighbors. And amazingly enough nothing has changed academically due to all of this wasted time and money! While at school they can't say the Pledge of Allegiance because there are people of other nationalities there. What in the world is that about? Your either here in the USA as a visitor or as someone looking to become an American, so act like an American and say the Pledge or listen with PRIDE! (or leave the country!) And then there is prayer, which in the absolute majority of the time is being used for positive things. Yet say it in school and your bound to be suspended or disiplined in some way! Even churches are being legally forced to accept people that live lives insulting to their teachings and beliefs, or face closure.
What a sad time in history we live in when people are muzzled as to what they can say, do, and believe in! The very things this county was founded on are all being taken away in a tragic display of a selfish few.
I'm not an athiest, but I wouldn't call myself a "religious" person. I believe that there is something in control of certain things, and I call it "God", but other people may call what they believe in "God", and that's just fine. When I was in school, each football game would have a prayer by a different denomination of worship--this past Homecoming was a Rabbi. I think that's the most fair way to do it. Down here in a very religious town, there's no way that they'll go without some sort of prayer. I prefer that there is some type of prayer (whether it be religious or more like a wish for well-being) done before big events. One person's "God" can't protect any better than anyone else's, but I'm happy that people bring their beliefs to things as simple as football games. The only thing I remotely have a problem with is the 10 Commandments in the State buildings. First, laws were not built on the 10 Commandments, nor should they be displayed. I mean, why? If we're going to do that, we should display every religion's "Commandments".
I have to believe in God. The joke would be that I've seen him a bunch of times while racing, but the reality isn't all that far from the joke... At any rate, I run a Racers for Christ sticker on my bike. That's one sponsorship I'd hate to lose.
(I don't necessarily believe in the Catholic church, but that is a completely different subject.)
Here's another subject. Am I the only one who gets misty when the National Anthem is played?
I see God every time in T5 at R/A... I have seen him in the kink a few times too! :o
QuoteI see God every time in T5 at R/A... I have seen him in the kink a few times too! :o
I believe He helped me land in T5!! ;D
I have no doubt God or a herd of angels have set up shop at the kink, and now at the bend.
Am I the only one who gets misty when the National Anthem is played?[/quote]
K3, When was the last time you've been to a pro hockey game. You deffinetely are not alone. I love the anthem at a B-Hawks game. These days it is the only reason to attend.
Hey Dawn, who was/is Samuel Thompson?
We have a HUGE debate in Madison Wi. right now as the freedom from religion folks are trying to keep children from singing Christmas, Christ, etc., in their Christmas choir programs. My question is; Where is the "division of church and state" thingy? Is it in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or where?
Quote Hey Dawn, who was/is Samuel Thompson?
We have a HUGE debate in Madison Wi. right now as the freedom from religion folks are trying to keep children from singing Christmas, Christ, etc., in their Christmas choir programs. My question is; Where is the "division of church and state" thingy? Is it in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or where?
This is a good read on the "separation of church and state"
http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html
I don't know Samuel Thompson, doing a search on the internet came up with some interesting results....
http://www.dangerouscitizen.com/Opinions/979.aspx
Dawn :)
I am athiest and I don't care if people pray, but I do remember being a kid and feeling VERY uncomfortable when REQUIRED school gatherings always had a local priest/preacher making us bow our heads in prayer. I finally told my principle how uncomfortable I was my Senior year and I got to sit in the office, by myself, for the whole service. I actually liked that better, because I didn't feel so awkward.
I'm sure people go to far to snuff out religion, but I really wished someone would've said something when I was in school (15-20 years ago).
Just my 2cents :-/ :)
Everyone is entitled to thier own beliefs. That is the beauty of living in this great country of ours. However, it seems that more and more the people who believe in God are being persecuted. Heck even the money that you and I use every day says "In God We Trust."
Of those who think this country was not formed by men of God need to go through their history books again. The pilgrims first came to America fleeing religious persecution. (Dang it, I'm not leaving. ;))
For those who do not believe in God or even a higher being.... Answer me this. Take a look at the world around you, not what man built, but nature. How can anyone say "it just happened" "it's evolution." If that's the case I could take all the parts to a watch, put them in a zip lock bag, shake it up, and poof! I have a working watch. I don't think so..... plus... where did I get the parts from?
OK, I'm done now.
Dawn ;)
I'm not going to get into a discussion about my beliefs in religion, because I know how heated and personal that can get. ;) I have my theories and of course I think they are right. :)
I was raised thinking that our country was founded on people escaping religious persecution. That we have a right to believe what we want. Just because our founding fathers were mostly Christian, I don't feel they should be telling us that their religion is the one to believe. By implementing their religious beliefs in government entities, they are doing that in a small scale.
These references to Baghdad, Jeruselem, and other countries that aren't as free and democratic as ours is comparing apples to oranges.
I know that your god is mentioned on our money, national anthem, pledge of allegiance, and other government things. That doesn't make it right for those of us who don't believe in one. I also don't have a solution, because I know some people need that in their life. I just want people to see both sides and honestly step into the shoes of us who don't believe in a god. We aren't bad people (even though we are sometimes made to feel like it). ;)
I don't mean to offend - just share ;)
Shaking a bag of watch parts, hmm. I haven't heard that one before. I assume as a Christian you think the Muslims are mistaken. Well, you should anyway. How does shaking a bag of watch parts, or any other anology for "look at the world, how did this happen" prove you over them, or any other religion for that matter? Like Lowe, I too don't want to get too involved in this as people tend to get a bit miffed, but that one is a little weak. I still don't care that you believe or pray or whatever, so long as my children or I do not have to.
QuoteHow does shaking a bag of watch parts, or any other anology for "look at the world, how did this happen" prove you over them, or any other religion for that matter?
I don't say that my religion is the correct one or the wrong one. However, for those who say that they are an atheist (one who does not believe in God) I want to understand how they explain our existance.
Just courious because, personally, I don't understand it.
Dawn :)
QuoteI don't say that my religion is the correct one or the wrong one. However, for those who say that they are an atheist (one who does not believe in God) I want to understand how they explain our existance.
I can't help myself I know better than to get into this but, if we needed God for our existance how do you explain where God came from?
QuoteI don't say that my religion is the correct one or the wrong one. However, for those who say that they are an atheist (one who does not believe in God) I want to understand how they explain our existance.
Just courious because, personally, I don't understand it.
Dawn :)
Well, that is a tough question. Unfortunately, it assumes that we must be able to explain our existance. I think most atheists will say that just because we cannot prove every detail of our creation doesn't mean we have to go and make something up that has no logical foundation, and then fight wars with other people who also made something up (only something different) for centuries upon centuries blah, blah, blah. I cannot answer for us all, but I think this is a commonly shared sentiment.
On a good note, we should not really fight with others about our views until it directly causes us conflict, like my son getting fed Christianity in it's more aggressive manner. Things like this will cause me to take very big steps, but otherwise I don't care what anyone else believes. I don't begrudge them anything that makes them happier and more fullfilled. And if they can see some truth in it, more power, rock on, etc.
QuoteI don't say that my religion is the correct one or the wrong one. However, for those who say that they are an atheist (one who does not believe in God) I want to understand how they explain our existance.
Just courious because, personally, I don't understand it.
P.S. You sort of have to say your religion is the correct one.,don't you? Otherwise you don't believe it yourself. That is not to say you look down on others with different views, but you must see them as wrong at least in their religious convictions.
This is probably a massive oversimplification, but I'm a pretty simple guy. I was raised Catholic, and I DO pray sometimes. These days I pray when I'm really scared, sorrowful, thankful or happy. I don't pray reflexively, like brushing my teeth. As far as how I was taught what it takes to be a good Catholic, I'm totally going to hell.
Here's my take on relegion. Even an athiest can appreciate this. There is a good side and a bad side. Call good God, Mohammed, Bhuda, social responsibility or a fear of the prison system. There is a bad side. Call it the devil, evil, human nature, the Kennedy conspiricy or whatever.
Good and bad. You pick the team you want to play for, and then live your life accordingly. Without this basic concept, we'd be no better than animals. I call good God, as is my right. Others have the right to their own beliefs.
When I see "In God we trust" on money, it comforts me. I love our Pledge of Allegance. Our country WAS founded on these things, and it's absolutely STUPID to change them because they offend some people. I love motorcycles. Let's say that my love landed me a job in Japan. I sure wouldn't walk around harping that their forms of religious expression were offending me. The 200+ years of this country's tradition and national belief system SHOULD NOT go out the window because some people are offended by it.
Merry Christmas! (No offense!)
For people to understand where athiests get their viewpoint, I think you need to start with a TRUE comprehension of time. It's been over 200 years since the Americas were discovered by Europeans. It's been over 2,000 years (or about 100 generations) since Christ. It was 5,000 years before Christ that we started seeing signs of farming and civilization. It was 5,000 more years before that, that we have the first fossils of homo sapians. Most people stop there when they are looking back. Most people have a vision of dinosaurs at that time.
There were a ton of different forms of humans that EACH lasted on this earth for 1 million years - Each - We've been here for 12,000. We have another 988,000 years before we even match our predecessors. Dinosaurs were something like 80 million years ago?? Earth has been here billions of years before that. I would easily believe that life can develop tremendously over that time.
I can't explain where the original chemicals came from, nor would I expect a Christian to explain where God came from, but I think we are figuring out more and more every generation. Only a few hundred years ago we thought the world was flat.
So someone is wrong - science, carbon dating, archeologists, religion, etc.
Here I said I wouldn't get into it, but I'm just talking about time scales ;) :-/ :)
Read (or listen to the book on tape ;) ) Guns, Germs, and Steel. That really opened my eyes to how different portions of society views and teachs our history. He mentions nothing about religion or racism, but I had a much better understanding of how both can be developed in a culture.