Motorcycle Racing Forum

Racing Discussion => Racing Discussion => Topic started by: charliev on December 09, 2003, 02:41:06 PM

Title: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: charliev on December 09, 2003, 02:41:06 PM
Got off work thought i'd get some lap times and wow! Rear exploded coming off nascar 4 kicked him sideways and off the front he went. he got up and walked away. word was just minor injury. hope your ok jason.
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: cb186 on December 09, 2003, 03:42:29 PM
hmmm.. jason disalvo and ben spies, both have tire failures and both on dunlops! i think that i'll stick with my michelins(not that i will ever go around daytona as fast as they do anyway)
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: B-MAC on December 09, 2003, 05:55:43 PM
Add to that, all the problems Mladin had last year on those S U C K A S S tires.
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: fourandsix on December 09, 2003, 06:34:57 PM
QuoteAdd to that, all the problems Mladin had last year on those S U C K A S S tires.
In the AMA's 600 Supersport and 750 Superstock classes, Dunlop racers have won a mind-boggling 32 out of a possible 33 championships, including both titles once again in 2003. In the ultra-competitive, high-profile AMA Superbike class, Dunlop has won 18 titles, including the last 14 in a row - an unprecedented streak.
 
 
Halverson said he believed the tire had been rubbing on the swingarm, and Miguel Duhamel reported seeing smoke coming from DiSalvo's motorcycle prior to the crash.
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: CCSRACER123CCS on December 09, 2003, 07:48:08 PM
What'sMichelin got to show in AMA. Moto gp they rock..but not here! DUUUUUUNLOOOPS!!!!
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: cb186 on December 10, 2003, 04:31:10 AM
i don't put a ton of stock into the # of championships that dunlop has claimed over the years because, if i had to guess, the pro teams that run them probably get a dang nice sponsorship(read $). if maladin had to pay for his tires out of his own pocket starting today, i would bet he wouldn't be running lops any more, imho.
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: fourandsix on December 10, 2003, 04:42:50 AM
Quotei don't put a ton of stock into the # of championships that dunlop has claimed over the years because, if i had to guess, the pro teams that run them probably get a dang nice sponsorship(read $). if maladin had to pay for his tires out of his own pocket starting today, i would bet he wouldn't be running lops any more, imho.

These teams and riders are in it for the championships, they are going to use what works not what they get a deal on.
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: duc995@aol.com on December 10, 2003, 06:04:25 AM
The latest report is that the tire was NOT rubbing...it was ANOTHER DUNLOP catastrophic failure!
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: Jeff on December 10, 2003, 06:10:06 AM
QuoteIn the AMA's 600 Supersport and 750 Superstock classes, Dunlop racers have won a mind-boggling 32 out of a possible 33 championships, including both titles once again in 2003. In the ultra-competitive, high-profile AMA Superbike class, Dunlop has won 18 titles, including the last 14 in a row - an unprecedented streak.
 

Amen...  Thank you.

For reference, do you see any AMA team using inferior equipment just because it's GIVEN to them?  No, you don't.  They are given the best and then choose from the best as to what suits their taste...
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: scottg22 on December 10, 2003, 06:24:16 AM
Also a thing couple things to consider....   First Disalvo is running a Superstock bike with 17" slicks.  Tire Manufacturers have been focusing on 16.5" slicks not for awhile.....  and now are working again with the 17's.  I am sure they know what they need/want in the tires from some the 16.5 data, but again its testing and its new again (tire sizes, sidewalls contruction etc...)

Add in the fact that these Superstock bikes are almost as fast as full on Superbikes (and just as fast as some superbikes...) at DIS.  (49's are smoking fast!!).

Lastly... everyone is quick to jump on the "Brand X sucks because of this or that"  band wagon with out full details.  Ever stop and think Disalvo was testing ?  In order to find out what works best you need to try different things.  Some things work some things dont.  That is why its called testing.  Its a dangerous fact that these guys have to test to find out what works but its their job to do so and that is why they are riding motorcycles in Florida right now and getting paid to do so and we are sitting behind our keyboards !  
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: r6_philly on December 10, 2003, 02:53:25 PM
how many time have each of you seem across the tread cuts develop on Dunlop DOT's? It doesn't matter whether it is safe or not. But when a "issue of concern" such as tread seperation is pointed out, they have not made ANY effort toward fixing it.


So their product may be good, or worthy to win championships, but I do not have any confidence in the corporate philosophy.

I can see my thread spliting, on different dunlops I have used, and nothing is being done about it. They call it "Normal" I call it "inferior prodcut that I don't trust"
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: 1fastmofo on December 11, 2003, 06:37:10 AM
I agree...

Dunlop really needs to take a look at what they're doing. Speaking from a purely engineering standpoint, catastrophic failures should be unacceptable. What good is a special race tire that doesn't stay together? I understand that this is testing, and that's what it's for. But, rider safety should be put first, otherwise you might not have anyone left to test your tires.

Make all the excuses you want, like the tire rubbed. What a crock of sh!t. That's just a manufacturer trying to dodge a bullet. Point being, Dunlop tires have been failing on different bikes, with different riders, at different tracks. You can even add in for different reasons if you beleive what you hear. When all the B.S. stops and the smoke clears you have a product that is failing, end of story.

Something needs to change. All the product loyalty and trust in philosophy, and past championships don't mean crap to a rider who's trying to minimize damage to his body while sliding down the track at 180+ mph. Good for Matt for speaking his mind. I personally don't like him, but it's about time someone took a stand.

Anyone ever see Michelin or Perelli tires separate at the seams or explode? Nope. Dunlop needs to worry about their product failing first. Then work on performance. What would everyone think if these riders all died from their tires failing? I bet it'd be a whole different story. It's too bad to that in this sport someone needs to die before change is made. I'll stop my rant now.
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: B-MAC on December 11, 2003, 06:48:43 AM
Everyone has an opinion, I voiced mine. You are right in saying that some people jump on a band wagon to protest things because of what he said or she said. Thats not me, I could care less how many Championships have been won by Dunlop. In my mind, the S U C K. Tire failure is a bad thing, at any speed. But when it happens over and over again with the same manufacturer, I am not buying them!!! And, to top it all off, the Dunlop tires that came on my dirtbike were crap after 1 ride, which telld me, they don't know what they are doing. Oh, I almost forgot, all the crap 207's that come on new bikes that get become horribly cupped after only 2000 miles.

Some of you may have a great relationship with Dunlop and that is great for you. I had the same with Michelin in the past. But, have you thought about trying something else!!! Are you running Dunlops just because they have numerous championships, or because you like them??
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: GAMEDIC on December 12, 2003, 06:08:49 AM
My Pirelli's have never come apart... but then again i'm slow ;D
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: Super Dave on December 12, 2003, 06:37:54 AM
QuoteMake all the excuses you want, like the tire rubbed. What a crock of sh!t. That's just a manufacturer trying to dodge a bullet.

Actually, as fourandsix stated, Tom Halverson reported the rubbing.  Tom is with Yamaha.  Mistakes can happen.  Tom Kipp lost the whole front wheel from his bike when he was with Yosh.  

In a perfect world, nothing would ever happen to anyone.  Certainly, a contracted rider doesn't want to have something like this to happen.  The Dunlop tire test is kind of high profile because they have such a big commitment to the US market.  No one else has done what Dunlop did, is doing, and will probably continue doing.

As for other manufacturer tires failing...I'm sure it happens.  But those sessions are a bit different.

I do remember Dale Quarterley getting hurt in 1996 testing Michelins at Daytona.  I do remember WSB star Giancarlo Falappa getting hurt testing  Michelins at Texas World Speeday in like 1995.

We do have to remember that these are "A" riders on "A" level bikes.  Not even "B" level riders on "A+" bikes may not be able to generate the loads that these riders impose on the tires and chassis.

I am primarily a Michelin racer, but I do have to stand up for Dunlop in this matter.
Title: Re: Jason Disalvo pops a tire!
Post by: 1fastmofo on December 12, 2003, 07:29:00 AM
QuoteIn a perfect world, nothing would ever happen to anyone.  Certainly, a contracted rider doesn't want to have something like this to happen.  The Dunlop tire test is kind of high profile because they have such a big commitment to the US market.  No one else has done what Dunlop did, is doing, and will probably continue doing.

We do have to remember that these are "A" riders on "A" level bikes.  Not even "B" level riders on "A+" bikes may not be able to generate the loads that these riders impose on the tires and chassis.

I am primarily a Michelin racer, but I do have to stand up for Dunlop in this matter.

I agree that mistakes happen. If the tire rub occured on the swingarm, either the tire is the wrong size, or there is some serious misalignment of that rear axle. If that's the case, then that A+ rider has a D- mechanic, which I find hard to believe. I'm sure the mechanic knows how to properly install a rear tire. It's pretty obvious to anyone when a tire is installed wrong. I don't buy it.

Even if there are mistakes, they're usually isolated events. Recently, to only have one brand of tire have catastrophic failure is no coincidence. Now, if one is going to say that the bikes have to high of a power to weight ratio, that's B.S. These ridrers have tires made by D- engineers.

I consider a tire as a motorcycle part, especially at that level. Tire manufacturers need design criteria. How much does the bike weigh? What type of forces are we going to see? Ect... ect... Then they go and develop a tire to suit those needs. At least they're supposed to, and I'm sure they have. What they've come up with doesn't work and instead of pushing the envelope the way they have to, they should first determine a minimum safety factor, then base performance on that design. I think it would be better for Dunlop to be a second off of pace than to have their tires explode.

If there was a certain part that was failing on your car, or an appliance at home, in some other product that you use, you wouldn't use that product. You certainly wouldn't give it your support. UNLESS, you are a paid or endorser of that product. More likely than not, there is a stipulation in any agreement with a manufacturer that you cannot give any poor review of the product that helps pay for your racing campaign. Look at racers who bad mouth factories or products after they switch to another team. It's because they're no longer obligated not to say anything negative.

I don't know anything about tire design or development, but I do know that you can't place the blame on the bikes, riders, or the tracks. Dunlop is certainly scrambling to make changes. I hope they do and their product improves because of it. I don't want to see any dead riders because everyone pretends the product is fine even though it's exploding here and there.

I'll never be as good as the pros. Hell, I hope to someday be a fraction as good as Superdave.  ;D But, I just hope that Dunlop does something better before someone dies, and that people see that the blame should be placed on the design, not the bikes or the track. If you don't have a product that can stand up to the rigors of what you throw at it, don't risk your riders life with something inferior.