Motorcycle Racing Forum

The Cassell Family would like to extend an offer to those of you who were at Daytona on October 18, 2003.
There is a video tape out there of the accident that took my brother, Bryan Cassell II (Mighty Duc), from us and severly injured Jeff Tathem.
We are offering a $1,000.00 reward for this tape.
We need to know what really happened.  There are too many conflicting reports.  We want to know.  So if you have the tape or know of the person who does, we would really like to have it.
Laura

do u know for sure that someone has the tape?

We do not "know" for sure there is a tape, CCS, Daytona Speedway - they have both investigated but did not find it.
Why we belive there is one is, right after the accident, Randy, Bryan's Pit guy, was in someone elses pit, before he knew Bryan had been killed, and the guy who was talking said he had just seen in on tape and it was a really bad accident.  Randy doesn't remember who it was, I don't think he knew the guy anyway.
So, no we don't know, that is why we are offering the reward, because if there is one, maybe this will encourage that person to help us close this chapter of the book.  My family doesn't want to cause any headache.  We, mainly my Dad, need to know EXACTLY what happened.  There are so many conflicting reports and then you have the evidence.  Put yourself in our shoes for just one moment, if it were your son or brother, wouldn't you want to know what happened?  Only if you could help prevent it ever happening again?

I know from my own experience of trying to find out the circumstances of Bryan's accident, that there are several witnesses with different versions. I don't know about a tape but after speaking to Jerry Wood (Penguin Racing School), and what one of his riders told him. His version most impressed me. I will be seeing him at Homestead this weekend and get the name of the rider who told him what he saw. A tape would certainly be the best evidence but without one you can only look at everything available and hopefully put your mind to rest atleast on that situation.
I must say again that I miss Bryan every day and I only knew him for less than 1 year. He brightned my days with his enthusiasm for this sport. I really liked conversing with him. I cannot imagine the grief of his family who knew him his whole life.

HD

Thank you - We miss him terribly - I go to call him all the time, it still hasn't completely sunk in.
Could you pm his account, or call me?  Unfortunately, a lot of the Eyewitness renditions do not exactly Jive with the bike damage or Bryan's damage.
I would be interested in what he saw.  Add it to the list, per say.
Thank you for commenting.  Sometimes I get the feeling that the CCS racers are not happy with us, his family.
I hope you all know that the racing fund is for your division, to start, because that is where he raced -as it grows, we will branch out to all of the racers we can touch! That is what Bryan would want - he loved so many of you - didn't care Where you raced, just that you did or wanted to! :)
Anyway - we are so thankfull for those of you who have reached out to us (Heather and Stumpy too!)

Laura

Hi Laura.
I wasn't at Daytona this year, and I don't have any new info for you.  I did hear a bunch of talk though, and the consensus seemed to be that Bryan's bike siezed up and slowed instantly.  If the wreckage of the bike still exists, I'll bet that one of Bryan's Florida region racer friends would be willing to look at the motor and see if it failed.
Just a suggestion.  Good luck and God bless.

Thanks for the thought - but the engine fired.  It was started and running a week after the accident - fired off on the second turn over.  So no engine sieze - see why we have questions?
It is all very frustrating.

It is possible for an engine to overheat and sieze, yet still start and run days later after it has cooled.  Most often when they sieze, the internal damage is such that they don't free up later, but still it is possible that it siezed then cooled down and started later.  
Sorry for your loss.

I agree about the possibility that the motor siezed and then freed up.  I had one do that to me.  I'd run a compression check to see if one cylinder is low, and then tear off the heads and barrels.  If the motor seized, there will be evidence in the barrels, even if it was able to start and run later.  Another possibility is the transmission.
Really, I just can't imagine what else could have caused a wreck up on the banking, other than suspension or tire failure.  I suppose those would have been obvious upon inspection.
I ran Daytona in 2001.  The banking scared the hell out of me at first, but eventually I realized that if you didn't let yourself hit the wall and the bike didn't fail in some way, you'd be all right up there.
Laura? I have something personal that I'd like to send to you.  Please e-mail me.

QuoteIt is possible for an engine to overheat and sieze, yet still start and run days later after it has cooled.  Most often when they sieze, the internal damage is such that they don't free up later, but still it is possible that it siezed then cooled down and started later.  
Sorry for your loss.

FOR sure.. the motor should be torn down, and the pistons, cylinder and clutch stuff should be inspected for unusual wear marks that would indicate a seizure. No way would he have stopped where he did under any circumstance, but we can speculate forever...

I did not know that about seizing - I thought once broke always broke.
Something you all need to know - The accident was not on the wall, it was closer to Pit Road, after coming off the wall, is my understanding.

Hi Laura,
             Let me start by saying that I never had the honor of meeting you brother, although I did attend the races with him throughout Florida this year. I enjoyed his writing and passion for the sport. I was at Daytona, but did not witness what happened. I am very sorry for your familys loss.
             I respect you all for turning your loss into a positive, rather than resenting the sport and the people. It disturbs me that you feel like some of us are not with you in your efforts-I would like to believe that we all are. I have always found Henry to be honest and straight foward-he will help if he can. I think that most of us are here for you all-whether we show it or not-don't stop what you have started-I'm new enough at this to remember how Brian felt, and believe that you and your family are doing the right thing!!!!
            Best wishes,
                            Tony LaRocca
                                   694

Thank you for your words of encouragment.  I have never spoken with Henry, personally.  He did come and speak at Bryan's Celebration of Life and he had some wonderful things to say and share.
I know I upset some of you with not steering Bryan's Memorial Foundation towards the Airfence.  That is a whole lot of money and we are starting small with this and aspiring to grow, so tackling the airfence and its expense is a little out of our league.  That is what I meant earlier - did not mean to step on toes, but I am good at stuff like that.  Say what I feel, mean what I say, just not always clear on how I feel and how I say it. lol
If you knew Bryan, we feel strong and talk stronger and louder! lol
I came first, so I guess he got that from me, sorry! ;)

QuoteI did not know that about seizing - I thought once broke always broke.
Something you all need to know - The accident was not on the wall, it was closer to Pit Road, after coming off the wall, is my understanding.

Not so.. the bike he rode was not water cooled, so there could have been big differences in temp throughout the day with that bike. Cold siezure, hot siezure, whatever.. the bike could have siezed, then once cooled down, it will still run, as long as there is some compression the bike will fire up. Now, how much power? Dont let the fact that it starts now fool you into thinking there was not a siezure on track that day. I spoke to riders who where right behind him as the rear was locked and sliding...

Could the rear wheel bearing be frozen?

'K - Had not heard before that someone saw the rear wheel lock and slide.  That was not in the "official" report we were given.
Real wheel was not locked on Sunday after it happened (next day), that was the first thing Dad did was spin it.
I emailed Heather to let her know that you all think the bike should be checked out.  Butch, the guy Bryan bought the bike from was the one who started it, I can only assume that he would know all  of this.
Sometimes I wish I knew more about all this, if we were talking Suzuki 60cc, I could argue, know them inside and out (ok the ones from 1980), but we are talking Ducati, which I know NOTHING about and currently I am not very fond of them either.
I do however appreciate your expertise, Melka, I know that Bryan did too.
Sorry if I don't make sense.  Tonight I am having a bad night.  I can't seem to stop crying. (Just like a girl).
Thanks Guys.
L

Quote'K -
I do however appreciate your expertise, Melka, I know that Bryan did too.
Sorry if I don't make sense.  Tonight I am having a bad night.  I can't seem to stop crying. (Just like a girl).
Thanks Guys.
L

No worries. I lost my sister (only sibling) 10 years ago. Her looser boyfriend was driving wrecklessly and lost control of her car putting them under the front of a semi. Both died. Him-unemployed, living off her. Her-med school, science fair winner. Go figure. I cried for  oooo... bouta year. Takes time.

check the fuel system as well. It could have been clogged and freed up afterwards.

I have had a motor stop running TWICE now at Daytona, and only at daytona. First time Feb 02, when my bike stalled on the grid and will not restart. but it stated just fine when I got home, came out of the trailer.

Then this time at Daytona ROC my bike died off the banking going toward start/finish, and restarted once I came to a stop.

Still haven't figure out what went wrong yet, although I have gotten a new bike and changed many things on that bike, it is going to be street bike now.

check the bike throughly, it could be many things, but I guess having that video would be the best way to try to come up with the correct explaination. Good luck on finding that tape.

QuoteNo worries. I lost my sister (only sibling) 10 years ago. Her looser boyfriend was driving wrecklessly and lost control of her car putting them under the front of a semi. Both died. Him-unemployed, living off her. Her-med school, science fair winner. Go figure. I cried for  oooo... bouta year. Takes time.

Thanks Greg.  I did not know that and I am truly sorry.  You are the first person I have met who could unfortunately relate to losing a sibling, so fast and tragically.
I know it will get better as the days go on without him, I just see him everywhere still.  Thank you for all of you sharing with me, it really does help.
L

QuoteThanks Greg.  I did not know that and I am truly sorry.  You are the first person I have met who could unfortunately relate to losing a sibling, so fast and tragically.
I know it will get better as the days go on without him, I just see him everywhere still.  Thank you for all of you sharing with me, it really does help.
L

Laura, unfortunately there are a lot of us. My brother Mike died suddenly in a motorcycle crash. It was very hard for a long, long time. There were a lot of what-ifs and unanswered questions, and there still is.
Find strength in the support of your loved ones and do what you need to do to work through this time. We understand and wish you the best.

QuoteLaura, unfortunately there are a lot of us. My brother Mike died suddenly in a motorcycle crash. It was very hard for a long, long time. There were a lot of what-ifs and unanswered questions, and there still is.
Find strength in the support of your loved ones and do what you need to do to work through this time. We understand and wish you the best.

Thanks Jack - it is amazing how blind you are to things until they happen to you.  You see things on TV News and stop, say a prayer and go on, but when it happens to you - It is just devistating.
I am sorry for your loss too, I thank you for sharing.  A lot of my local friends have no idea what I am going through - You and Greg unfortunately understand.  It is hard when you are the Brother/Sister - You aren't the wife, the Mother, the Father.  I have felt a little "outside" sometimes, because I don't know how I am supposed to feel, act, etc.  All I do know is that My Very Best Friend, the person I have known the longest in this world, is gone.  He was my baby brother, I was there when he came into this world, I never thought I would be there when he went out.
Thank you again for sharing with me!
Laura

Quotecheck the fuel system as well.

Daytona is known for draining carburetor floatbowls empty on the banking and causing a fuel starvation stall.

A lot of Buell racers used to run auxiliary fuel pumps to keep this from happening. It's another issue to consider. And if that happened to Bryan, there would be no evidence of a mechanical failure.

Just want you to know Laura... we are all here for you. I also lost my best friend to a bike accident many years ago and yes, it was devistating. He might as well have been my brother because we were so close. I was in New Jersey at the time he was killed and I never got a chance to say goodbye. That realy bothered me for a long long time. Still does. Hang in there. As far as I am concerned... we are all in support of you and Brians fund. It is just awsome and overwelming how you have embraced the racing (family) with your support and kind words. You do what you feel is best for Biran's fund. It's your baby and any and all ideas you have for the money is completley up to you and we support your decisions! Mark!

QuoteDaytona is known for draining carburetor floatbowls empty on the banking and causing a fuel starvation stall.

A lot of Buell racers used to run auxiliary fuel pumps to keep this from happening. It's another issue to consider. And if that happened to Bryan, there would be no evidence of a mechanical failure.

nobody had told me that, I bet that is what had happened to me twice then.

I suppose it wouldnt happen to FI bikes as much? I am a bit scared of getting on that banking with my old bike not knowing what happened.

QuoteDaytona is known for draining carburetor floatbowls empty on the banking and causing a fuel starvation stall.
 
A lot of Buell racers used to run auxiliary fuel pumps to keep this from happening. It's another issue to consider. And if that happened to Bryan, there would be no evidence of a mechanical failure.  

I hate to admit it, but you are probably right - Bryan had talked of something like that, when the raxes were going to be 12 laps, he BARELY had enough fuel and said he could feel it sputtering as he was coming off turn 4.  that is probably going to be one of the best bets as to what happened - What do you think Melka?
I really appreciate all of you brainstorming with me, You all are such Good People!

Mark - Thank you for your support, you make my heart swell!


Laura

tank vent can also cause problems with fuel delivery.

That is true about the carbs.  I believe circle track race cars like NASCAR use those special circle track carbs I believe.  They are designed a little differently inside to prevent fuel starvation and to maintain better fuel flow.  Figure the G's pulling constantly on the banking is a lot and would imagine it could drain the float boals.  I know this was with a cycle, but call one of the nascar shops and ask them their opinion on the carb situation since they are really experience at Daytona.  Most their shop numbers can be located on line and ask to speak to one of the mechanics.  Robert Yates Racing (RYR), Dale Earnhardt Inc.(DEI), Richard Childress (RCR) and Roush Racing just to name a few.  Long shot, and it is a car, but the theory is the same (fuel delivery system) but always a possibility to think about if you are trying to cover every aspect.  Also try one of the cycle race teams.

Good idea - yeah right that they would take a call from a blonde GIRL wanting to talk about fuel injectors and bankings! lol
No really -it is a good idea.  Thanks

Laura ::)

I used to be a nascar guru..now I am a broke cycle racer  :)  But having fun.

Try these guys.  They make carbs and may be able to offer insight.  May not be the answer, but you may get some info.

www.aedperformance.com/NASCAR.html

Bike stays parallel to g force; car is perpendicular IE down to the carb is still down even when on its side due to g forces car has g forces applied to side of car

Don't ask me what that means, I'm just married to the guy...

QuoteI hate to admit it, but you are probably right - Bryan had talked of something like that, when the raxes were going to be 12 laps, he BARELY had enough fuel and said he could feel it sputtering as he was coming off turn 4.  that is probably going to be one of the best bets as to what happened - What do you think Melka?
I really appreciate all of you brainstorming with me, You all are such Good People!

Laura

FWIW, Laura, you may also consider taking a look at the rear tire.  If there was an engine seize, then you have two possibilities for what happens next - rapid slow down due to sudden loss of power, resulting in rider colliding from behind.  Or rear tire skid, causing a fall (high side), followed by collision from behind.  I'm not an authority on engine seizing, so I couldn't say for sure that the rear tire skid would be a given.  But if the tire *did* skid, you should be able to see some evidence of that  on the rubber - flat spotting is what the car guys call it.  If the bike simply lost power (due to the seize, or due to the carb running dry), you would not have any flat spotting on the rear tire.  

Anyway, I am sorry for your loss - I wish you and the rest of Bryan's family well in finding peace.

     I had my Jet-Ski sieze up on me while riding a few years ago, turned out I ran out of injection oil (2 stroke) so it wasn't getting any lubrication. The engine would not even begin to turn over after it happened. After I let the engine cool down it turned over fairly well so I added oil and it ran ok, but not as good as before. What I noticed was that it seemed to run alright, but the power just wasn't there like it use to be. Later I tore down the engine and found that the cylinder walls / pistons were scored quite a bit.

     I had my '96 GSXR 750 develop 2 seperate problems back in the late 90's where it would just quite running on me while racing. One of the problems would happen after 1 - 4 laps on the track, that turned out to be an ignition coil that was bad (it only developed the problem after the bike was hot, otherwise it ran fine). The other problem took me a while to find and would cause the bike to lose power then quite all together. I could usually make it thru a sprint race (depending on the track), but I would usually have this happen about mid-way thru an endurance race. It turned out that the gas tank on my new bike was rusting inside! The rust that was laying loosly on the bottom of the tank would get suspended in the fuel as I was racing due to all the moving around that the bike does while racing. These suspended rust flakes would begin collecting on the sock type fuel filter located on the fuel pump inside the gas tank. Eventually they would obstruct the fuel flow enough that the fuel bowls on the carbs would run dry under hard acceleration (especially after a top speed section of track). After the bike would quite it wouldn't restart until it sat for a few minutes (some of the rust would actually fall off the filter once the bike stopped due to the lack of suction from the fuel pump which then allowed enough fuel to make it to the carbs to restart). The fuel bowls themselves didn't really show any sign of the rust, nor did the fuel line filter between the gas tank and carbs. When I eventually found the rust on the filter in the tank I looked inside the tank with a flashight and didn't see any rusting of the tank itself so I figured I had just gotten some contaminated fuel. But to my shock at the next event I had this happen again, even after getting fuel from a different source in a different container. The rust was actually coming from my tank rusting inside, but I hadn't seen it before due to water being heavier than gas, so only the very bottom of the tank was rusting. Looking thru the fuel pump opening in the bottom of the tank, and using a mirror, I was then able to see the rusting surfaces of the bottom of the tank.

     I contacted Suzuki of America and they told me that because I was racing it they would not cover me in any way, even though the bike was less than a year old! I was also told that this is actually not that uncommon of a problem, especially in the northern states where the bikes sit for an extended period of time without being ridden. Contaminated fuel and/or containers were also mentioned as a possible source of the moisture. They also told me that race fuels degrade quickly and allow moisture to form in the tank (not so sure how accurate that statement is though!). I asked why the coating in the tank doesn't stop the rust from happening in the first place and I was told that Suzuki does not coat their gas tanks inside. To solve the problem I ended up having to get some rust neutralizer and sand down the rusting area inside the tank. After that I have never had that problem again.

     I went thru alot of frustration trying to find this problem, so I am offering it here to you as yet another possibility in finding what might have went wrong. I also wonder if there was an issue with the bike being shifted into a lower gear unintentionally?  If he was using a GP style shift pattern he may have accidentally shifted into a lower gear out of previous habit causing the rear tire to deaccelerate rapidly but not completely lock up, still resulting in a possible loss of control. Did he ride any other bikes (track or street) with a shift pattern opposite of this bike? Just a thought.

Shift pattern - I have no idea - his street Ducati was the usual 1 down 4 up.  I have no idea what the race ducati was.
As for the rust in the tank - The Cassell Family is very familiar with gas tank problems - Bryan's RM60 that he raced as a kid was stolen 3 times and always wound up at the bottom of the quarry!

At this point - all your advise is mute as we do not have access to the bike and Heather is not ready to do anything with it.
I appreciate all of your advice and opinions.  When it gets tore down and figured out I will let you all know the outcome.
Thanks Again!
Laura